January 15, 2019

"When she was forced to hide under the bed, Jayme told detectives, Mr. Patterson would box her in with totes and laundry bins that he secured with barbell weights."

"He would turn on music to prevent guests from hearing any noise she made. And one time, when Mr. Patterson believed she had tried to escape, Jayme said he struck her and threatened worse consequences if she tried again. But last Thursday, after Mr. Patterson told Jayme he was leaving for a few hours, she managed to force her way out from under the bed, she said. She grabbed a pair of men’s shoes — apparently Mr. Patterson’s — and ran to a nearby road, shoes ill fitting and on the wrong feet, crying out for help.... Mr. Patterson, who had apparently been out looking for Jayme, told the deputies he knew why they had stopped him, investigators said. 'I did it,' he said."

From "Jayme Closs, Kidnapped by a Stranger, Endured Horror, Police Say" (NYT).

109 comments:

rhhardin said...

Probably the horror was the worst part, I'm guessing. Just thinking of the market for the headline writer.

The worst part was the creamed corn dinners isn't going to fly.

gilbar said...

the actual worst part is that Wisconsin was one of the earliest United States states to abolish the death penalty.

rhhardin said...

They'd want to keep both sides of the vicarious sex fantasy audience, but when push comes to shove they'll go with the soap opera women.

rhhardin said...

(queue standard abused woman revenge script) Based on a true story.

Ann Althouse said...

"the actual worst part is that Wisconsin was one of the earliest United States states to abolish the death penalty."

Dahmer got the death penalty.

rhhardin said...

Kill Bill seems to have sequelled to Kill Bill 3. They may just have run out of wrong-doers to knock off and it remained popular.

Ann Althouse said...

"sex fantasy audience"

He's charged with murder and kidnapping. I'm not seeing a sex assault charge of any kind. You can read the criminal complaint here. I have skimmed it but not read every word, but my impression is that there is nothing about sexual contact.

rhhardin said...

Gang rapes would be the best bet for sequels, if you're producing the genre.

rhhardin said...

Well damn, if there's no sex, where's the story.

rhhardin said...

I guess they're doing their best with kidnapped girl horror.

rhhardin said...

I gf once mocked a Miami Herald main headline "Girl Kidnaped" but it turns out to he an alternate spelling.

Patrick said...

The current complaint deals only with crimes committed in Barron County. The Douglas county DA is reviewing evidence for additional crimes committed while he kept her in Gordon, WI.

rhhardin said...

We can only hope.

gilbar said...

Ann Althouse said... Dahmer got the death penalty.

did he? i'm not from Wisc, but i didn't think y'all's law had one?
Or, did you mean de facto?

traditionalguy said...

This is definitely Toxic Masculinity at work. And the little asshole is as clean shaven as it gets. Gilette is gonna need another ad agency.

Dave Begley said...

Now there's a confession. Death penalty is a sure thing.

I see where Oklahoma was quick in executing the Muslim who cut off heads in the food processing plant. I think it was about four years. Badgers can learn from Sooners.

GRW3 said...

I approve of them not dwelling on the rape, double homicide and kidnapping seem enough of a charge. She doesn't need the additional humiliation of being grilled on this during the trial. In prison, this twenty something that most likely enjoyed raping that poor thirteen year old girl, will find out about rape.

M Jordan said...

“there is nothing about sexual contact.”

Unbelievable. It almost makes the guy more of a pervert than he already is.

William said...

Let the punishment fit the crime. This man's imprisonment will share some of the horror he inflicted on the girl. He can never really be sure that this will not be the day he is beaten or killed or raped. Bad things will happen to him, and he has no control of when they will happen, nor of how bad they will be..

Joe Biden, America's Putin said...

He murdered her parents.

He deserves death. Not a lifetime of care in a prison.

The Aurora Theater Shooter killed many many - young to old and one juror made sure that we the tax payer get to house and feed that person until he dies some day.
The people he murdered did not get that choice.


These are the types of crimes the death penalty is for.

Curious George said...

"Blogger Ann Althouse said...
Dahmer got the death penalty."

Nope.

Fortunately he got what was coming to him in prison.

Bob Boyd said...

"Fortunately he got what was coming to him in prison."

I think that's what she meant.

tim in vermont said...

Althouse has gone Truman Capote on us.

rhhardin said...

The death penalty is a statement how seriously society takes the voice of the victim, a voice that is missing.

It's neither revenge nor deterrence.

If you're using it as either, you're the market demographic for the MSM headline writers.

In this case, focus on the parents not the kid. Is the crime unusual parent-wise. It's hard to think about that with the kid being the story.

alanc709 said...

If the death penalty is inhumane, what is prison without the possibility of parole? How long before that punishment is abolished as equivalent to torture. Once you go down the slope of banning something, like the death penalty, the path is open to further assaults against the validity of judicial sentencing. Life sentences will be next to be abolished. Just wait for it. Certainly not advocating it, I believe in the death penalty. But the path leads there.

Unknown said...

"I have skimmed it but not read every word, but my impression is that there is nothing about sexual contact." You're correct. But I think they are shielding us from what happened and, perhaps, protecting Jayme. That poor, brave girl.

robother said...

My guess is the prosecutors don't want to add to the girl's trauma by interrogating her about (and have her cross examined about) rape, particularly since they have a confessed murder to put the guy away with for life. Rape charges would make the girl's life a living hell with the media, since that's the key ingredient to selling papers/clicks for months here. That'd be my call if I were a prosecutor, anyway.

FIDO said...

IIRC, male 'kidnap victims' (or let us be honest in what they are called, slaves) never actually got to the 'kidnap' phase and go straight to the 'dead' phase. Female privilege.

But it was always so. Tribe A defeats Tribe B. Men all killed and women who aren't too obnoxious, ugly or old were kept alive. We might have had Feminism before but natural selection fixed the issue. (How could you tell which tribes had Feminism? The dying men weren't putting up a fight and smiling as they died)

I read somewhere that only 1 in 25 of our ancestral men actually had any posterity. This was probably a reason.

This animal was guilty of the sin of covetousness. There is a reason it is in the Big Ten

etbass said...

"The death penalty is a statement how seriously society takes the voice of the victim"

Indeed. And there needs to be an expedited path to the execution; not 20 years. Every roadblock to expedited justice needs to be removed.

Bob Boyd said...

"I have skimmed it but not read every word, but my impression is that there is nothing about sexual contact."

Maybe he's just one of those guys who wants the comfort of knowing there's a terrified stranger under his bed when he's out.

AllenS said...

Wisconsin does NOT have a death penalty. Dahmer was murdered in prison.

jrem said...

"My impression is that there is nothing about sexual contact"

There is a possibility that the prosecutors have chosen to NOT charge these offenses or make any reference to these facts in the probable cause portion of the complaint in order to save Jayme from the public scrutiny of bringing those facts forward.

Jersey Fled said...

According to reports, the girl and her rescuer were deathly afraid the the kidnapper was chasing them. They ran to a neighbor's house where they were let in. The neighbor had a gun. He protected them until the police arrived.

FIDO said...

The death penalty is a statement how seriously society takes the voice of the victim"

Indeed. And there needs to be an expedited path to the execution; not 20 years. Every roadblock to expedited justice needs to be removed.



Yeah...easy executions with women holding the reins of the law and due process in the age of #MeToo?


Do you have a death wish or something? Women want to criminalize a stranger saying 'hello' to her and these fucking knucklehead Leftists would, if they could, charge the man defending her with his gun for owning said gun.

That is just how they roll.

walter said...

I mentioned in cafe last night but..

"last Thursday, after Mr. Patterson told Jayme he was leaving for a few hours, she managed to force her way out from under the bed, she said."

She must have thought hard about whether that info was a test/trap.
Yet..telling her that, as well as the weird method he held her captive and had folks over doesn't mesh well with the picture we've been given about how shrewd he was/is.

Jim said...

In 1951, Missouri executed the kidnappers and killers of little Bobby Greenlease less than 100 days after the crime. It is time for the people to retake power from the liberal judiciary and execute this trash before the Summer Solstice.

zipity said...

...and now we'll watch while the state spends millions of tax dollars prosecuting a guy who everyone with a functioning brain KNOWS is guilty.

Let's cut to the chase. Stick a loaded shotgun up his a**, and keep pulling the trigger until it's empty.

Problem solved, and look at all the money we saved!

Jupiter said...

rhhardin said...

"It's neither revenge nor deterrence."

You're wrong on both counts, and it also cleans up the gene pool.

But you know this guy is going to spend the rest of a long life receiving love letters with cash enclosed from female idiots. God, I am sick of the Matriarchy.

JPS said...

This story just makes me sick. Yesterday I learned details I would rather not have known, about the parents’ last moments.

Yeah, I’d rather not have known; that poor girl lived it. To imagine what he took from her, to imagine her grief and horror and how she had to adjust to this - and why? Because she caught a sociopath’s fancy, it turns out.

I can’t imagine how she can ever be OK again. Yet the reports are she smiles even now, back among people who love her.

Mark O said...

I would have opted for the "Lonesome Dove" adjudication.
Grab a rope.

Merny11 said...

As a Wisconsinite and Grandmother of children the same age as Jayme, I would like the opportunity to exact slow torture on that despicable man. Any one that wants to should be allowed to line up and one by one inflict thousands of agonizing wounds. Sharp objects allowed but no guns so that he dies slowly and in anguish.

Gk1 said...

Why should he enjoy a lengthy legal process, stay in prison at our expense when we could tie his hands and feet and fill his pants with rocks and drop him into a reservoir? What's the point?

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Robert Cook said...

"Why should he enjoy a lengthy legal process, stay in prison at our expense when we could tie his hands and feet and fill his pants with rocks and drop him into a reservoir? What's the point?"

Because we have a constitutionally mandated system of justice that prohibits cruel and unusual punishment, and provides guarantees to the accused to protect them from the power of the state. The state still finds ways to steamroller everyone caught up in the system of justice, but these protections are intended to protect all of us from the state's might...as any of us could be accused of a crime and find ourselves trapped in the system's hell.

I'd heard they don't teach Civics in high school anymore. I guess it's true.

Robert Cook said...

"As a Wisconsinite and Grandmother of children the same age as Jayme, I would like the opportunity to exact slow torture on that despicable man. Any one that wants to should be allowed to line up and one by one inflict thousands of agonizing wounds. Sharp objects allowed but no guns so that he dies slowly and in anguish."

Maybe they never taught Civics in some school districts.

Joe Biden, America's Putin said...

Holding someone accountable for snuffing out innocent lives isn't cruel.

He deserves a trial - then, if found guilty, he deserves death.

Jupiter said...

I don't wish for Mr. Patterson to be tortured to death, or raped in prison, because I don't think it is ever right to take pleasure from inflicting pain. But he is unfit to live, and should be put to death.

Robert Cook said...

In fact, reading further up the line of comments, I can't believe so many people are ignorant of civics. It must be that they abhor the Constitution and support a government of coercion and torture.

MD Greene said...

Am I the only person left in America who is repulsed by the idea prison rape is part of "justice" for creeps like this terrible man?

What I learned in school was that the legal system existed to prosecute crimes that upset the order of the community. It was not to kill/rape the guy instead of letting aggrieved relatives exact passionate vengeance. The punishment is the withdrawal of the offender from civil society.

My observation, sadly, is that it is difficult to interest our police in many violations, including extremely violent ones that are reported and in which the offender has been identified.

If cops and DAs set a goal of swift and sure prosecution, maybe we wouldn't wish for offenders to be raped and murdered in our prisons. Maybe the bad guys would think twice before doing awful things to other people.

That's the theory, anyway.

Joe Biden, America's Putin said...

Retribution.

The lives he stole, do not get the chance to be housed behind bars with hot meals.

Robert Cook said...

"Holding someone accountable for snuffing out innocent lives isn't cruel.

"He deserves a trial - then, if found guilty, he deserves death."


Yes. But this is not what some here are advocating.

Merny11 said...

Here you go Cook, making the horror this little girl endured about politics. You are sick.

Robert Cook said...

"Retribution.

"The lives he stole, do not get the chance to be housed behind bars with hot meals."


Nonetheless, he must be treated as all of us would want (and have a right) to be treated were we accused of a crime. Our constitutional protections do not privilege criminals; they (are intended to) protect all of us. Despite these protections, our justice system is hardly that, but is exceedingly cruel, unjust, and arbitrary. It would be far worse still if we voided the Bill of Rights, (what's left of it).

"He that would make his own liberty secure, must guard even his enemy from oppression; for if he violates this duty, he establishes a precedent that will reach to himself." --Thomas Paine

walter said...

Surprisingly little out there about the killer, especially considering how young he is. You would expect parents, a sibling or relatives to have commented.

This may just be horribly written (vague re time parents moved), but it also might suggest a weird background:
"Patterson’s parents divorced in 2008, according to online court records. Neighbor Daphne Ronning told the Milwaukee Journal Sentinel that the parents moved away but that Patterson and his older brother, Erik, continued to stay in the cabin. She said she and her husband once caught them siphoning gas. Another neighbor, Patricia Osborne, told the Minneapolis Star Tribune that the brothers often got into trouble. She said they stole things and spent time in foster care."

http://time.com/5501392/jayme-closs-james-thomas-patterson-suspect-kidnapping-unremarkable-life/

Fernandinande said...

The creep is charged with 1st deg homicide (2X), Kidnapping, armed burglary, no sex stuff.

ken in tx said...

When legal authority gives up the right to use the death penalty, it does not go away. It devolves to the level of those willing to use it. In certain circumstances, I would be willing to administer it.

Robert Cook said...

I would be very surprised if he did not sexually molest the young girl in some way. After all, why murder two people to abduct her if he had no intentions of having sex with her? Perhaps more charges will be filed after they have had a chance to learn more about what occurred during her months in captivity. Or, perhaps he was unable to perform, despite his desires and intentions.

Robert Cook said...

"Am I the only person left in America who is repulsed by the idea prison rape is part of 'justice' for creeps like this terrible man?"

No, you are not. I find it repulsive. Those of barbarous feeling or primitive cognition may relish the idea of a cruel predator subjected to his own practices, but what of the many in prison for lesser, often non-violent crimes? Do they deserve to be tortured and raped by their fellow prisoners?

Anonymous said...

Jersey Fled said...
According to reports, the girl and her rescuer were deathly afraid the the kidnapper was chasing them. They ran to a neighbor's house where they were let in. The neighbor had a gun. He protected them until the police arrived.


You beat me. Comes of being in PST. The NYT always avoids mentioning guns in a positive light. The story I read had the neighbor with the dog running with the girl, to a nearby house and telling the female teacher there to "get your gun". Now we know that teachers abhor guns :) Except in Wisconsin apparently...

So they called the police and waited with weapons until the police arrived. With the killer on the loose, the police advised the husband to stay alert and he sent the wife and kids to the basement while he watched the yard with a rifle.

Not that many Wisconsin country families without a gun.

Joe Biden, America's Putin said...

Cook - nobody here is stating we want lesser criminals violated.

Joe Biden, America's Putin said...

How can you read about such a horrific injustice and murder of innocent life and not feel some need to extract revenge?

Saying so in a comment section is merely stating that frustration out loud. We all know the asshole deserves a fair trial..

Big Mike said...

@Cookie, I would never leave a man alive with nothing left to lose. A person with nothing left to lose is the most dangerous person around.

The constitutionality of the death sentence has been argued before the Supreme Court. Capital punishment is not unconstitutional.

Robert Cook said...

"Cook - nobody here is stating we want lesser criminals violated."

There is no way to ensure that only the most egregious prisoners are violated. If condition in prisons are such that prisoners rape and assault other prisoners, everyone is subject to being victimized. And...as we have a system of justice that prohibits cruel and unusual punishment, we should not permit even the worst criminals to be subject to torture and rape by their fellow prisoners.

rhhardin said...

Revenge is very popular and the basis of countless Hollywood action flicks.

It's just not part of the justice system.

It's like lawyers defending scum. You have to convict them in spite of the best possible defense, not without a presented defense. That gives you the highest odds of getting it right, as a system.

Big Mike said...

And Althouse, per Wikipedia:

“Dahmer was sentenced to 15 terms of life imprisonment on February 15, 1992.” He was slowly beaten to death by another inmate, but that was not part of his sentence.

rhhardin said...

If you're innocent and executed in spite of protections, you're just taking one for the team. It could happen to anybody.

Robert Cook said...

"If you're innocent and executed in spite of protections, you're just taking one for the team. It could happen to anybody."

Yes, and I'm confident if it ever happens to you or someone you care about, you'll carry that sanguine attitude with you as punishment is meted out.

rhhardin said...

Socrates managed it.

SayAahh said...

Although we recognize there is a wide range of behavior it seems quite strange to me that her immediate post traumatic affect is unusually benign and cheerful, at least as represented in the published pics.
The perps response upon getting apprehended doesn't seem right either.
Must be missing pieces.

Sydney said...

What motivates people to do something this cruel? Is it just a desire to exercise raw power?

MalaiseLongue said...

I very seldom agree with Robert Cook but today he is correct in essentially calling out much of this thread as a cesspool. What the fuck is wrong with some of you people?

Joe Biden, America's Putin said...

I have NO soft heart for this kind of cruelty.

If he doens't get the death penalty & someone gives him some justice behind bars, oh well. Too bad.

Did that asshole care when he shot her parents to death? My heart does not bleed for this scumbag. My heart does not bleed.
I want retribution for those he killed, and the daughter who was traumatized and left to live her life without her parents.

Skippy Tisdale said...

As someone who spent years coaching women's gymnastics (ages 3-30), what baffles me is that he chose a 13-year-old. With rare exception, that is the absolute worst age.

Joe Biden, America's Putin said...

Oh grow up. Regular people who have real hearts can speak out to such cruelty.

How can you not? What kind of person only sees it from the standpoint of the "poor killer"?

Robert Cook said...

"As someone who spent years coaching women's gymnastics (ages 3-30), what baffles me is that he chose a 13-year-old. With rare exception, that is the absolute worst age."

The "absolute worst age" in what respect?

Dust Bunny Queen said...

Part of the reason for the death penalty is deterrence.

The bigger part......once we are sure of the guilt of the perpetrator, is closure for the families and for society as a whole.

I'm with Cook on this. We have a system of justice to try to prevent miscarriages of justice. If it takes longer than we would like, we should put ourselves in the position of being innocent and being accused.

HOWEVER....once the system has played out and we have (as best we can) gone through the process....justice should be swift and sure. Not dragged out for 20, 30 40 years.

rhhardin said...

I'd assume mean remarks and long surly silences, like every teenaged girl who'd rather be anywhere but where she is.

Mark O said...

"Yes, and I'm confident if it ever happens to you or someone you care about, you'll carry that sanguine attitude with you as punishment is meted out."

He admitted to the crime when the police found him.

This is an exceptionally ancient issue:

Ecclesiastes 8.11

Because sentence against an evil work is not executed speedily, therefore the heart of the sons of men is fully set in them to do evil.

Robert Cook said...

"What kind of person only sees it from the standpoint of the 'poor killer?'"

As John McCain said to people who defended American torture because other nations employ torture, "It's not about who they are; it's about who we are."

The whole point of of our Constitution and its Bill of Rights is that while we may be violent personally and individually, we would not be a society that countenanced cruel and unusual punishment. It's not about the "poor killers" at all; it about us and what kind of society we are or want to be. When cruelty is permitted (or accepted) against the worst of us, it soon becomes permitted and accepted for all. Consider the jolly social events that sprang up to witness lynchings.

Refer again to Thomas Paine's wise words above.

Curious George said...

Strap 'em down. Light 'em up.

Anonymous said...

Hang em high.

On the general point, Cookie is right, but part of me would like to see the lad put on a short stake.

Freeman Hunt said...

This is exactly the sort of thing the death penalty is for.

Phunctor said...

drill sgt... standing on a blovk of ice. in july.sloooooow.or maybe that persian thing with honey and insects.

rhhardin said...

I don't understand why it's even in the news, or, being in the news, why anybody especially cares.

Justice would be better served if nobody did.

FIDO said...

Cook, the commenters would prefer you have a word with Feminists. They seem to disdain due process far more than your average male since the men generally require a scintilla of evidence, but SOME, in the absence of evidence, prefer the testimony of husbands decades later.

Frustration with our legal systems is rife, and yet only one ideology is going for 'guilty until proven innocent', at least for some crimes.

To, say, compare the choices of the commenters between this case and some random person like Christine Blasey Ford, we have INJURIES, a POLICE REPORT, EVIDENCE, DNA, TEMPORALLY and LOGICALLY CONSISTENT TESTIMONY and WITNESSES.

In the other case we had...um...we had...Ms. Althouse, you are a legal professor. Could you please tell me what supporting evidence Christine Blasey Ford had to reinforce her claims?

rhhardin said...

The point of Hollywood revenge flicks is to make you care. It's a narrative and a self-indulgence.

You ought to be able to spot being tricked into it, though. The slightest cynicism or resistance.

Phunctor said...

i want to see sympathy for innocent victims of recidivists. it's not as if gooey goodfeelz are actually FREE! somebody pays and if it's not yours you should not give it away

FIDO said...

I am with Cook. We need to have STRONG cultural and educational support for the principles of Due Process, Strong Legal Processes, Free Speech and the Presumption of Innocence.

Luckily, our Higher Learning Institutions are bastions of...um...bastions of...

Uh Oh.

Skippy Tisdale said...

@Robert Cook

They tend to be really, really obnoxious.

rhhardin said...

What's most consistent with the entirely superficial facts I know is that the guy is her boyfriend. Not curious enough to look into it, however.

rhhardin said...

Who kills parents and takes the girl. Think up a Hollywood plot.

walter said...

Blogger rhhardin said...
I don't understand why it's even in the news, or, being in the news, why anybody especially cares.
--
There's a bot posting here

rhhardin said...

Think quantum mechanics. The observation device is part of the thing studied, whether you want it or not.

Michael The Magnificent said...

He may have planned and prepared for the abduction, but thankfully for her he hadn't planned or prepared for her imprisonment.

Maybe he didn't believe he would actually pull it off? A little more planning on his part, and we'd have never seen her again.

Rosalyn C. said...

Patterson might have thought it would be too soon to have sex with Jayme right after murdering her parents in front of her. You know, there are limits to what a person can handle. I think he saw this as a long term relationship, and he might have been waiting until she became dependent on him (traumatic bonding). So lucky she ran into that woman walking her dog instead of Patterson, as he was out looking for Jayme. If he had gotten to her first...

@rhhardin -- the two had never met before he enacted his plan.

If he had been born in a Muslim country and he was a devout Muslim his desires would have been accomplished through an arranged marriage.

Phunctor said...

The group-selection (tribal) benefit of Law is that Revenge is expensive and runs wild. We made a deal and called it Civilization. We'll miss it when it's gone.

Society needs to be the second meanest SOB in the game but the benchmark for "cruel" should be what happened to victims of crime,the benchmark for unusual should be the crime rate -- sound system design, with stabilizing negative feedback, otherwise "cruel and unusual" is a one way bleeding heart ratchet.

You do away with hanging and pretty soon you're quibbling about how many amps in the brainstem is "cruel";you reduce the rate of executions and now they are too "unusual" to ever be used again.

FIDO said...

It is not only Muslim Countries which have arranged marriages.

I had this16 yo Americanized Chinese girl I went to HIGH SCHOOL with who had a picture of her intended, still in Hong Kong.

India, Islamistan, China, Japan, Korea, Vietnam, Africa...arranged marriages are sort of the norm. Because as Mockturtle wisely pointed out: Women frequently don't know what they want. Then again, neither to young boys except that generally they do have a marked tendency for breasts and satiation

I still wait for Feminists to offer more than lip service to it's abolition. But that would require effort and involvement in foreign policy choices which involve conflicts with POC and Muslims, whom they are busy using as a cudgel to extort high salary jobs from white men.

Besides, much as PETA doesn't spray paint biker leathers, Feminists don't confront genital mutilators whose adherents also drive trucks into crowds, blow up bombs, and stab rooms filled with journalists.

Anonymous said...

Phunctor said...
drill sgt... standing on a blovk of ice. in july.sloooooow


No, You have it wrong. The long stake was the mercy killing. The short stake was the slow version. Apparently, there is no heroic or noble way to die, impaled on a stake.

And there is a limit, in days on how long a man can stay awake and how long his legs can support him.

The long stake killed (relatively) quickly. The short one was the longer and harsher. Your ice makes it a long stake scenario

Rosalyn C. said...

@FIDO Actually I was referring more to the problem of child brides than arranged marriages per se. But you brought up a very good point about how this is surprisingly not a feminist issue. See: Child brides

One final thought about Jayme, the fact that she saved herself gives me hope that she will recover from this horror.

FIDO said...

Obviously Feminists, to give them the credit they deserve, are against arranged marriages as a matter of course, since a central tenant of their doctrine is an entire lack of any social responsibility which is not self or Feminist imposed.

But they are against it the way they are against tearing tags off of mattresses, just something to be knee jerk against and not something to be actually relentlessly pursued compared to demonizing men and destroying Western Civilization or as they call it, the Patriarchy.

RigelDog said...

Crazy Jane asked, "Am I the only person left in America who is repulsed by the idea prison rape is part of "justice" for creeps like this terrible man?"

No, you are not the only one. I'm a career prosecutor and I'm horrified and pissed-off at the idea that rape in prison is so common. I wonder why there aren't cameras everywhere and maximum instantaneous consequences for anyone caught assaulting or raping an inmate. Or guard or visitor for that matter.
And even if we are OK with the idea of a truly rotten person being raped, the fact is that most people being raped are not going to be the worst of the worst, AND we are doing society no favors at all by allowing violent people free exercise of their worst tendencies while they are incarcerated. EVERY rapist is a terrible person who is getting off (!) and enjoying the rape but not every rape recipient is a horrible person who deserves this torture in some karmic way.

JPS said...

RigelDog,

I agree with everything you've written, and with Crazy Jane before you. You are absolutely right.

But forgive me: If something extralegal and double-horrible happens to this guy, my disapproval will be a purely rational exercise. I will be unable to help being glad it did. I know I shouldn't. I don't like what that says about me. But there it is.

Gospace said...

Gk1 said...
Why should he enjoy a lengthy legal process, stay in prison at our expense when we could tie his hands and feet and fill his pants with rocks and drop him into a reservoir?


Use a remote lake please. Not a reservoir full of drinking water. Also, if you're going to do this, less likelihood of security cameras catching you doing the deed.

As a reminder, the whole purpose of having police and a justice system, including using the death penalty in a measured way, is to keep the mob from (not Mafia, but actual mob) from exacting mob justice. Which would lead to the death penalty being used more often, and more often on actual innocents. Requiring actual evidence or a non-coerced confession is a good thing.

FIDO said...

I am all for trials and I am also all for a legitimate pause before an execution. One year.

And this guy should be executed. It cleanses the social and cultural palate.

wildswan said...

Her hair was matted and dirty when she escaped so she couldn't have been attractive and perhaps nothing happened but rather he was waiting till she agreed to marry him. I know that sounds crazy but who are we talking about? Someone who kidnapped and murdered because he thought: this is the girl I'm going to marry.

Marcus said...

I found out something tonight: according to Wikipedia, the killers of Bobby Greenhouse were executed "together". Dayum!

THEOLDMAN

MD Greene said...

To Robert Cook, RigelDog and JPS:

Thank you, sincerely.

Rick67 said...

Two things strike me about the story:

(1) He tells the mom to tape her daughter's mouth and then he kills the mom anyways. I wonder how many similar situations when someone says "do what I say" we can or should refuse b/c that person is going to kill no matter what. I've read that when someone tries to kidnap you, just fight back, don't cooperate, and try to run, b/c once you're tied up, it's over.

(2) The article never really explains what his motivation was. Why did he kidnap this girl?

RigelDog said...

Rick67,

IMO, you shouldn't cooperate with a violent criminal...IF you can get away or otherwise do something effective such as use a weapon. This is an especially solid rule if the crook is trying to remove you to a secondary, more isolated location and he needs your cooperation to get into the car etc. It's a lot harder to say that you shouldn't cooperate when it comes to home invaders who already have the upper hand. Even if they are going to rape, they are still more likely to terrorize, rob, rape, and then leave without killing, so cooperating is your best bet if you don't know anything to the contrary.

Experts do say that, if you are going to resist wildly and make a break for it and you can't do it immediately, then go along for a little while until hopefully a window of opportunity opens...you won't likely get two chances.

As far as his motivation, it seems clear to me that he is possessed of a violent psycho-sexual obsession with this poor child. Odds are high that she was raped, but those charges can be brought in the future by the county in which it occurred. For now, what charges they have officially brought will suffice to hold him and send him to jail forever.