ADDED: A comment by sdharms makes me see how it could be that no one is lying. The comment is "so? HRC talked to Eleanor Roosevelt and no one had a problem with that." It could be that none of the living presidents have confided to Trump that they support building the wall, but some of the dead presidents have communicated with him. It's possible that George H.W. Bush, while still alive, spoke to Trump about the wall, but Trump said "some," so it must be more than one, and so something supernatural is needed for it to be true that no one is lying.
OH, WAIT: I'm working my way further into the CBS article, because I wanted to see exactly what Trump said and to think about whether there's weaseling over the question of what it means to "support his mission to build a border wall." The quote you see there is CBS's paraphrase of whatever it was that Trump said. Trump might mean that he's spoken to former Presidents who support some sort of physical barrier at the border, and the former Presidents who want distance from Trump are denying support because they don't support exactly the kind of wall that Trump has been talking about. But as I read the article, I was astounded — because I'd relied on "every living president has said otherwise" — to find this:
Mr. Obama is the only living president who has not explicitly denied having this conversation, and his office did not return a request for comment from CBS News. But Mr. Obama has repeatedly spoken out against Trump administration immigration policies and made clear since the 2016 campaign that he does not support a proposed wall at the U.S.-Mexico border. Politico also pointed out that Mr. Obama and his successor have not had any extensive conversation since the 2017 inauguration.
Posts
153 comments:
Haven’t they all PUBLICLY stated the need?
so? HRC talked to Eleanor Roosevelt and no one had a problem with that
Trump is wrong here. His base hates former potUS's.
Why would his weak ass want their support?
Piss on these publicly-failed stewards; bunch of jackass's the lot of 'em.
Maybe he meant Presidents of other countries...you know,like England, France, Sweden, Poland Hungary, etc.
Seriously, Trump has probably been talking to W. Texans all know that illegals are their #1 problem. A good wall system would be one that re-directs the mass flow of uneducated peasants Westward until they flood across the California border where they are wanted to be the servants of the wealthy people living behind Walls of their own construction.
Maybe it was 41 and Reagan, we know they both met The Donald.
The two living presidents who didn't say it (Carter and Obama) are thinking it. Shame the two that did say it (Clinton and Bush) won't admit it publicly.
No doubt, Donald Trump will clear this up with a clear and concise statement as to which former U.S. Presidents he had "wall" conversations with, and exactly what was said. Because the White House Communications Office is always on top of something like this, where the Current Occupant has made a significant statement about an issue at the very forefront of a federal government shutdown.
Lulz.
ARE YOU FREAKING KIDDING US, ALTHOUSE, WHEN YOU SUGGEST THAT YOU DON'T KNOW WHO THE LIAR IS IN THIS CASE?!?
Why not just talk to 2009 Chuck Schumer?
Other than the word "some", CBS News[sic] couldn't be bothered to actually quote Trump or accurately report what he said, so I'd guess CBS News is lying.
OMG I see they did quote him...in the last sentence of the article. What's up with that?
Now the conversation will of necessity shift to who didn't say it to Trump privately - but look at that, some did say it publicly - looking at you Bill and W. That is what will happen when people start researching to try to prove that Trump either is or isn't a liar.
Maybe it was just good manners.
A lot of this controversy boils down to semantics. Every president wanted border security, through a mix of different barriers. Trump, even during the campaign, backed off having a solid wall for the whole border. When Trump now talks about a "wall" he really means a much better barrier than we now have. I think he would be served to phrase it that way if actually wanted to make progress on border security rather than thinking about his reelection.
Of course they said it, they just don’t want everyone to know they said it. They’ve all pretty much said in the past.
Is it so hard to believe that they may actually all be lying?
After noticing that the CBS quote didn't mention a wall, I found a the video of his speech (on a Swedish site!), and he may have been referring to "security" in general.
Swedish site!
Somebody... or everybody... is lying.
"As of Monday, every living president has said otherwise" (CBS News).
Clearly CBS News is lying. The set every living president includes Trump. I'm pretty sure he has not said otherwise.
Trump and/or others may also be lying. CBS News is the only one we can determine with certainty.
HRC talked to Eleanor Roosevelt
The male Billary claimed that the androgynous Billary "communed" with a dead person. The audience giggled; no one had a problem with it because it was just a crummy joke which the one Billary told about the other Billary.
“This should have been done by all of the presidents that preceded me,” Trump said. “And they all know it. Some of them have told me that we should have done it.”
That is the quote I find. Note Trump does not mention WHEN they told him that. Bill Clinton used to be against illegal immigration. Before Trump became a candidate the Clinton's attended his wedding. It is easy to believe back in the days when Trump was just some rich guy that one or more of our previous Presidents looking for $$$ claimed to wish they had secured the border. He could even be referring to Reagan - who he also met.
So Trump has gotten the former presidents, each of whom did noting and so they enabled this illegal invasion of 10 or 20 or 30 million illegals, to claim today there is still no problem and we don't need a wall? That was mighty clever of Trump IMO.
So now we know what Trump and all the past Republican presidents were having a laugh about.
http://time.com/5424453/donald-trump-painting-andy-thomas/
Checkmate, Bliss!
The NYT is working to hard to construct scenarios where they can claim "TRUMP LIES!" They overworked themselves here (you cite CBS but there is a Times article circulating) to the point I can't believe their hype. First there's a very dishonestly-worded Tweet that almost matches what CBS says in your post. But the premise rest on this:
Trump said, "“This should have been done by all of the presidents that preceded me,” he said. “And they all know it. Some of them have told me that we should have done it.” As many have noted, this is ambiguous, like most Trumpisms.
But the Times then elides all other possibilities (such as speaking with former admin officials who are NOT the POTUS). What if Bush told him he regretted not building the wall in 2010? The quote from Bush's spokesman is, "A spokesman said Mr. (George W.) Bush had not discussed the issue with Mr. Trump." So we have to trust NYT that "the issue" in this sentence refers to the Wall being built. But it isn't bound by time, and we don't know what the elder Bush or any other POTUS said to Trump before Trump became POTUS.
Like Stephen Miller (Redsteeze) says on the Tweeter: "This media phenomenon of treating Donald Trump as the first president to be a habitual liar is one of the most unintentional hilarious things about their daily hissy fits." And I'll add that the lengths they now go to in order to "find" lies is stupid. If they hadn't been slavish cover-uppers for Obama for eight years (how many Congressional subpoenas did the White House ignore during his terms?) then the media might be less exposed now as the partisan harpies they are.
Thank GOD for Donald J Trump!
See my update: Obama has not denied it!
As if what they said publicly while in office to the people is less important?
The quote you see there is CBS's paraphrase of whatever it was that Trump said.
Their quote was accurate, though suspiciously truncated, but nice catch on CBS's fake headline.
While you are defending this obvious lie as either not a lie or someone else is lying, how about defending the walk back on the Syria withdrawal? Talk about sending things down the memory hole, now he is claiming he never said what he said less than a month ago.
George W. Bush sought and got Congressional funding for a border wall, whether or not he has discussed it with Donald Trump.
Well despite the fact it wasnt torture by definition of the European human rights court:
http://www.airforcemag.com/DRArchive/Pages/2019/January%202019/January%2007%202019/US-Strikes-in-Syria-Nearly-Double-in-Recent-Weeks-Cole-Bombing-Plotter-Killed-Does-USAA-Owe-You-Money.aspx
"that they support his mission to build a border wall."
"Some of them have told me that we should have done it.” Those two aren't the same, at all.
Wait just a minute, you Trump Cultists; recall what Trump said last week:
“This should have been done by all of the presidents that preceded me,” he said. “And they all know it. Some of them have told me that we should have done it.”
Trump is claiming that "some" former presidents have told Trump that the kind of wall Trump is now trying to build is something that they should have done.
That is the argument; set up by none other than Trump himself. Trump is talking about;
a) His kind of wall, on his own terms;
b) Recent conversations (based on the timing of it being "something that they should have done";
c) More than one of the living former presidents having said what Trump claims, and;
d) Trump's fascinating presumption that "they all know it."
Again, I like the fact that reporters are asking the relevant witnesses the important questions on this subject.
I say again; Trump should be asked, in detail. Sarah Sanders and everyone in the White House should be asked. Which former Presidents is Trump taking about? When were the conversations? What exactly was said?
Women, children, and LLRs hardest hit.
Did we really want 30 million illegals, that's the realistic figure, which is the population of Canada in this country?
So as usual, President Trump in making his statement, forces the media to ferret out all the past Presidents advocating for a border wall. After that, it's a he said, he said, situation. And every living President would lie about the conversation in order to make President Trump look bad. Those inclined to believe President Trump will, Chuck won't.
I think Trump is about to win this one. This is really funny.
Mr. Obama is the only living president who has not explicitly denied having this conversation...
President Trump is a living president. Has he explicitly denied having this conversation?
I love reading Chuck in all caps in the morning. It shows that he's already losing it.
Now that Chuck has weighed in it is more clear than ever Trump is playing the Media here again. YES they ALL publicly concurred with Trump's present position on border security. Chuck tries too hard to pin down the exact type of barrier, which is irrelevant because we all know it will take a variety of approaches to secure the whole border with Mexico. It physically cannot be a "wall" in some places. But every president proclaims the importance of securing the borders. I've heard 'em all. It is up to the Media, if they really want to ask the pertinent questions, to now drill down and ask Obama and Clinton and Bush exactly WHEN did they turn away from securing the border and start opposing Trump.
THEY are the ones caught out in a position opposite to their publicly stated ones, often backed by VOTES for the same (looking at you, Obama).
Mike all that I want to hear is Trump saying exactly when he talked to each living former president about Trump's idea of a wall, and what they said. In detail.
I don't care about the issue. I don't care about what you, or Trump, think about border security in general.
All I want to know is the extent to which Trump is lying.
Mike right, it's a media ploy to dodge Bolton's claim that Syria not finished
"I don't care about the issue."
Which makes your opinion moot. Thanks for playing.
iowan2 said...
So as usual, President Trump in making his statement, forces the media to ferret out all the past Presidents advocating for a border wall. After that, it's a he said, he said, situation. And every living President would lie about the conversation in order to make President Trump look bad. Those inclined to believe President Trump will, Chuck won't.
What is Trump even saying?
We know that in that unhinged rant, Trump spouted off about supposed conversations with former Presidents. For my own part, I don't really take that seriously because Trump says a lot of unhinged stuff like that. People should not take him seriously. Not in the way that they would take it from a serious person; a lawyer, a judge, a normal president.
But the fascinating thing about Trump is that he keeps saying stuff like this and when given the chance to back off the claim or explain it or back it up, Trump never does.
I think Carter, Clinton and Bush made themselves clear. It is now up to Trump, to say, "Yes, I had a conversation with President _____ on ______ when we were together at ______, and he said _______." Or, "President _______ and I had a telephone conversation on _________ and he told me _______."
Mike I care about whether Trump is a liar of pathological proportions. That is the issue I care about.
I think he is, and I am eager to collect evidence in support of that.
As I pointed out in the last link, the Turkish military doesn't think that trump is retreating just yet.
Chuck wrote:
"I don't care about the issue. I don't care about what you, or Trump, think about border security in general.
All I want to know is the extent to which Trump is lying."
Is this not the textbook definition of TDS? Paraphrased, isn't this just saying "I don't care about the issue, I just want to feed my seething hatred."
The fact that Obama himself voted in favor of building "a barrier to prevent illegal immigrants" from entering the US, as put forward by Bush, isn't that sufficient evidence that at least two former presidents were in favor of a wall before they were against it?
Or is the argument that the 2006 vote was for a fence, so not the same thing as a wall. That's a weak distinction in my opinion, but then I don't suffer from TDS.
“This should have been done by all of the presidents that preceded me,” he said. “And they all know it. Some of them have told me that we should have done it.”
Trump is claiming that "some" former presidents have told Trump that the kind of wall Trump is now trying to build is something that they should have done.
Not necessarily. "This" could refer to any number of recommendations, for example, that a President should stand firm to get his priorities through Congress. Plausibly, imho; my guess most ex-presidents have regretted some of the deals they were 'forced' into.
MikeR nails it. "They said they should have done it" and "they support Trump doing it" (paraphrased - MikeR gives the exact quotes) are two entirely different things.
They have lied to us for 32 years, on a whole host of matters.
Heck closer to 40, camp David btw came about more because of kemal adham then Jimmy carter
Wait just a minute. We know what the bipartisan history has been, on border security. We have sections of wall in some places. We have fencing in other places. We have some areas where neither a fence nor a wall is wanted by the people in close proximity to the border. We have some new technology to deploy, that would identify border-crossers without a wall.
I support all of that, and more. I have no problem with building some more sections of wall on our southern border.
I have a big problem with Trump, who made it a campaign pledge to build a singular giant wall, with a promise that "Mexico would pay for it."
If I were in Congress, I would pledge to add $5 billion, $10 billion, $20 billion for border security which would include some fractional amount for walls and fencing. All that I would ask in return for my vote would be a statement from Trump -- a groveling statement -- saying that he was wrong to have promised a great wall that Mexico would pay for. Mexico will not pay for the wall, and Trump was foolish to have claimed it. Any wall will not cover the entire border, and it is only a part of larger border security. And Trump will have to acknowledge that every member of Congress voting for this hypothetical bipartisan border security budgeting bill has genuine concern for border security and no one is advocating "open borders."
In other words, a deal that enhances border security can be struck, right after Trump acknowledges that he was wrong, and he's sorry and he knows that it was a bad promise that he made.
Althouse not posting Bolton Syrian reversal until deplorables issued talking points by Bone Spurs
Why are all of you guessing and trying to insert some plausible ideation into what Trump said? Why not just get a good clear simple answer out of the White House?
Either these conversations happened, or they didn't. I am not going to waste time or energy trying to imagine a good reason for why Trump said anything. Trump made the claim; he needs to explain the claim.
The media are all in for The Party. by default Trump is a liar no matter what he says.
"All that I would ask in return for my vote would be a statement from Trump -- a groveling statement -- saying that he was wrong to have promised a great wall that Mexico would pay for. Mexico will not pay for the wall, and Trump was foolish to have claimed it."
Ok, we've moved the goalposts, but lets continue down the rabbit hole.
What might "Mexico paying for the wall" mean? If you say the Mexican government must cut a check for the full amount and put "border wall" on the memo line at the bottom, then I agree that this is unlikely. But Trump has time to collect, the payment doesn't have to be up front. Its like if I buy a house and rent it out. My renters are paying for the house, but over the life of the mortgage, and not directly.
There are many ways Trump can effectively get Mexico to pay for the wall. Taxing money transfers to Mexico, for example, is quite direct. Less satisfying would be counting the net benefit associated with a renegotiated NAFTA. An unpopular option might be implementing a visa requirement for Mexican nationals to travel to the US (less extreme than Trumps threat to simply close the border with Mexico). The fees associated with that could be earmarked for a wall. I'm sure there are literally hundreds of options to explore.
“Illegal Immigration is wrong, plain and simple. Until the American people are convinced we will stop future flows of illegal immigration, we will make no progress.” -Senator Chuck Schumer, 2009
“We simply cannot allow people to pour into the United States undetected, undocumented and unchecked” -Barack Obama, 2005
“I voted numerous times… to spend money to build a barrier to try to prevent illegal immigrants from coming in. And I do think you have to control your borders.” -Hillary Clinton, 2008
So yeah, I can believe all of the ex-presidents agreed with Trump in some form of another about building a wall. Why is that so incredible? That they publically want to disavow saying so is the reason we got Trump. Simple, no?
Who needs Trump? Go thru their speeches to get elected.
No, AP; none of those supposed proposals for getting "Mexico" to pay for the wall are serious. None of them are serious enough for anyone in the White House to actually try to enact them.
If the Administration is proposing to tax money transfers to Mexico, they haven't tried to advance it in Congress. No yet. The Steven Millers of the Trump White House have talked about it, and haven't done anything affirmative about it.
You pointed out another notion -- even less serious -- that Trump himself tried to claim in answer to a question in his last press conference. Trump couldn't answer the question about how exactly the new NAFTA supplies any dedicated funding for a wall. It doesn't, of course. The argument is so vague as to be laughable. So what; the trade deal promotes business (as the original NAFTA did) and more business might mean more tax revenue for the US Treasury. That's US taxpayers, paying more taxes. It isn't Mexico paying.
As for passport/visa/transit fees; that will require an act of Congress. Indeed all of this will require Congressional action. And the Trump White House has done nothing to advance any specifics on that.
In other words, a deal that enhances border security can be struck, right after Trump acknowledges that he was wrong, and he's sorry and he knows that it was a bad promise that he made.
Read my lips, no new taxes!
I don't care about the issue. I don't care about what you, or Trump, think about border security in general.
All I want to know is the extent to which Trump is lying.
OK Chuckles, let's assume you are who you say you are. Go back and read what you wrote. Read it again. Your obsession is unhealthy. You really are acting like Queeg. You don't care about the biggest challenge facing the United States today...all you care about is trying to undermine Trump. You're sick...seriously.
Trump has explained that “wall” is a catchable for various kinds of barriers that depend on the circumstances. The leftmedia obviously ignores this and uses the “wall” generalization to mislead the public. That is likely to be in the mix here. It’s difficult to believe that all the living former presidents are stupid enough to oppose barriers along the border even if they oppose Trump’s invasion of their swamp.
Chuck said: "I care about whether Trump is a liar of pathological proportions."
Every time I see the magic word above, I think of the Fred and Hilma Clintstone. Not surprising to see our beloved LLR use it against an R.
In other words, a deal that enhances border security can be struck, right after Trump acknowledges that he was wrong, and he's sorry and he knows that it was a bad promise that he made.
Why? Dems didn’t want the deal, let them pony up. They don’t want to end chain migration.
You survived the Clintons and Obama, but now Chuck raises the bar.
Typical.
“ARE YOU FREAKING KIDDING US, ALTHOUSE, WHEN YOU SUGGEST THAT YOU DON'T KNOW WHO THE LIAR IS IN THIS CASE?!?”
Here’s Chuck-Channeling-Schumer reaffirming his theoretical conservative eunuch status by going left again because his hatred of Trump OUTWEIGHS EVERYTHING including ample evidence that the ex-presidents - one of whom is a proven perjurer - have lied repeatedly.
It's better to claim you got your instructions or confirmation directly from God, since any investigator asking for confirmation is sure not to get an answer.
Indeed all of this will require Congressional action.
So I take that to mean it isn't actually impossible to get Mexico to pay for the wall, so no apology from Trump required.
While I'm ok for the wall to built and the Mexican payment sorted out later, it appears you'd like the payment question answered first.
Apart from the obvious TDS, there is essentially no other difference in our positions on this issue.
Chuck said...
Mike all that I want to hear is Trump saying exactly when he talked to each living former president about Trump's idea of a wall, and what they said. In detail.
I don't care about the issue. I don't care about what you, or Trump, think about border security in general.
All I want to know is the extent to which Trump is lying.
Trump’s greatest accomplishment is pulling the mask off the uniparty.
Every former president is on tape saying we need better border security. Numerous traitors like McCain and Romney said one thing to Republican voters and betrayed them.
Now the globalists are out in the open. They cannot hide behind their lies any longer.
The American people want a secure border. The globalists will lose.
Gk1 said...
“Illegal Immigration is wrong, plain and simple. Until the American people are convinced we will stop future flows of illegal immigration, we will make no progress.” -Senator Chuck Schumer, 2009
“We simply cannot allow people to pour into the United States undetected, undocumented and unchecked” -Barack Obama, 2005
“I voted numerous times… to spend money to build a barrier to try to prevent illegal immigrants from coming in. And I do think you have to control your borders.” -Hillary Clinton, 2008
So yeah, I can believe all of the ex-presidents agreed with Trump in some form of another about building a wall. Why is that so incredible? That they publically want to disavow saying so is the reason we got Trump. Simple, no?
This worked when the Democrats had cover from cuck traitors like McCain and bush and bush and Romney.
Now trump is doing what the voters want and he is serving the American people.
The globalists are obviously the true liars.
I agree with Mike. And according to polls, no American find Chucks opinion to be in the national interest. Now chuck will try to argue that his opinion is like someone else opinion, but if he was consistent, chuck would produce a national poll that showed Americans were directly asked if they cared about chucks opinion and that more than one said yes.
AP, but that isn't what Trump is doing.
Here is what Trump needs to do.
1. Specify where he wants sections of wall, and where he doesn't.
2. Provide a budget for the cost of those sections of wall.
3. Go to congress, and answer committee questions on the proposal.
AP, don't drag me into Trump's laughable rhetoric about how Mexico will pay. Those were all on Trump. The bragging, taunting, trash-talking; all Trump. Until Trump came on his knees to me begging for forgiveness and admitting he was wrong, my position on federal funding would be, "You said Mexico would pay for your wall. If that isn't true, and if you have a much more complicated scenario in mind, you better explain it. And it better be good."
It's fascinating... Chuck's gone down the rabbit hole, once again. Remember when "Obama didn't wiretap Trump! Did he literally crawl through the ducting of Trump Tower and personally install wires on Trump's phone? No? Then he didn't wiretap Trump! Trump's a liar!!!!! No matter that Obama's administration spied on Trump, at Obama's command, Obama didn't wiretap Trump!!!!!!"
Note the five exclamation points... as Terry Pratchett said, 5 exclamation points is the sure sign of an insane mind.
Seriously dude, Althouse found Obama's very large looming non-denial--and you still are out here banging the high horse that Trump lied?
Have you no shame? At long last, have you no shame?
--Vance
Scott Adams has said Trump's lies are "directionally accurate."
In this case: Democrats have tended to favour enhanced restrictions on immigration, including border enforcement, especially with the 2008 Act. Now they are against any of this because Trump is for it.
It is more or less crazy to be for open borders, yet many people of both parties in Washington are for it. Trump is sane by comparison. A mystery.
Then President Obama told me that if I liked my doctor I could keep my doctor.
Since he did not tell me personally in one on one conversation, is that a true statement?
He did tell me that in a number of speeches.
So if Then president Clinton said, to the public, "we need a wall" why would President Trump be wrong in saying "He told me we need a wall"?
Saying "He told me..." rather than "He told the American people..." is pretty smart. it gets a lot of folks spun up and talking about it. Not about whether a former president said it, that is now established. But whether he said it directly to President Trump.
I would be surprised if Donald Trump did not meet other former presidents such as Nixon, who lived in NY in the 80s, Ford, Carter, Clinton. We know he met Bush senior because they discussed Trump running for VP in 88.
So it is possible that each and every one could have told him personally that they supported a wall. Not idea whether they did, but they had the physical opportunity.
John Henry
OTOH, I have have been told bu the most excellent authority that President Trump is lying about this.
John Henry
Vance:
In your writing just above, with five exclamation points (the "five exclamation points [that are] the sure sign of an insane mind..."); that's not my writing is it? It's all your writing, isn't it?
Chuck sez "Mexico will not pay for the wall"
Sounds like a prediction, not a statement of fact. How do you know Mexico will not pay for the wall?
AMLO has already said that he is thinking of a border "curtain" to prevent emigration to the US. This would be in Mexico paid for by Mexico. If we contributed, I'd be OK with it.
We have plenty of ways to get the money from Mexico to pay for the wall. A tax on their oil, for example. Or on remittances. Or El Chapo's billions (13 of them, I think it is) or a number of other ways.
So all you can say is that Mexico has not paid for the wall YET
John Henry
The walls and fences that are there today came into being....how exactly, and under which administrations?
Blogger johnhenry100 said...
So all you can say is that Mexico has not paid for the wall YET
Let me modify that:
Mexico has not paid for the wall YET, as far as we know.
John Henry
John Henry, remind me where Trump ever said that he would propose that billions of federal taxpayer dollars be spent on a wall, and that somehow (Trump isn't saying how) Mexico might repay it in the future.
All of those things you are talking about are either fantasies or else are already part of other federal budgeting, federal revenue, federal forfeitures, etc. There is no new "wall" revenue.
I'm not going to help imagine ways that Trump might be able to sell the notion of "Mexico" paying. I'm not here to help at all. I am demanding to know what Trump is proposing to do as President.
Chuck, "some" can mean one. It may not meet the NYT style guide, but that's how everyday people talk.
"Here are some scissors you can borrow"
"Some conservatives tweeted negative things about AOC dancing". We can only find one of course.
Using "some" to refer to "one" president is not a "lie".
I really shouldn't expect you poor shit heads to explain Trump's weird lie in this case.
Because poor shit head Mike Pence couldn't do it.
Brian said...
Chuck, "some" can mean one. It may not meet the NYT style guide, but that's how everyday people talk.
"Here are some scissors you can borrow"
"Some conservatives tweeted negative things about AOC dancing". We can only find one of course.
Using "some" to refer to "one" president is not a "lie".
That's really interesting. So who was the one former president with whom Trump spoke about his current wall proposal? When did they talk? What did that former president say?
And I'd also be interested in knowing exactly what all of the former presidents communicated with Trump, about how they all knew that they had been mistaken in not doing more to secure the southern border.
Obama has to maintain the position of being opposed to Trump or the Democrats will have zero chance of winning in 2020. Also if Obama admitted he also supports a barrier/wall for security purposes his loyal supporters would have a psychic breakdown of self doubt and cognitive dissonance: "You mean a wall is not immoral? That Trump is not a racist?" Obama is keeping quiet for public safety.
John Henry, remind me where Trump ever said that he would propose that billions of federal taxpayer dollars be spent on a wall, and that somehow (Trump isn't saying how) Mexico might repay it in the future.
How about you show where Trump said Mexico was going to write a check for it before it was built? It's a great visual. I expect Trump would have used it if he actually thought he was going to get it. "Mexico is going to write me a check and I'm going to staple it to the bill authorizing the building of the wall."
There are other ways "for Mexico to pay for it" without them writing a direct check before construction begins. Trump is a business man, surely he's aware of a concept of Return on Investment (ROI). "It pays for itself!"
Hey Chuck: What's your problem, anyway? You routinely mischaracterize Trump's claims; you openly admit lying about him in order to "tear him down." I put things I attribute to you in quotes, because they are not my thoughts. As I've said before, if I am quoting you, I say "and Chuck said, quoting, 'something truly stupid and vile that Chuck said'". Unlike, apparently you, everyone else gets that it's a paraphrase and description of what you said, not a direct quote.
What, precisely, did I have wrong in my paraphrase of your "Obama never wiretapped Trump!" campaign? Sure, I added the 5 exclamation points, because you spent weeks defending Obama's honor. Like all true Republicans do, naturally. In fact, you were very emotional about how evil Trump was for claiming that Obama wiretapped him. And when the facts came out, you retreated and retreated until you were left with the ridiculous claim that Trump lied because Obama didn't personally climb through Trump Tower and literally put taps on Trump's phone. And you declared victory and demanded Trump resign for lying about it all.
Now, you in this thread are saying that Trump's wall won't be concrete, it will be steel, and so Trump lied!
To quote an old Sage: You strain at a gnat but swallow a camel. Here you are, all fired up to claim that Trump lied! It makes you giddy! How wonderful! And then your narrative collapses, and you have to retreat and once again, your credibility and integrity lies in ruins and tatters, and everyone mocks how stupid, inane, and just vile you are.
You know that Benedict Arnold was not well respected in England, right? People shunned him, despite the help he gave the Brits during the Revolutionary war. No one liked a traitor, a backstabber. You claim to be a Republican, but you spend 99% of your efforts sabotaging, harassing, and in general tearing down the one guy who is standing up to the left. You are the kind of guy who would have said we needed to retreat from France and let that nice German general Model take it all, because Model was correct and had manners, while that General Patton was so uncouth! How can we have a general like Patton? We must take him out, even if it means letting Model win! Wouldn't letting Model and Jodl and Braustich win be so much better than having that embarrassment Patton win? Why, he thinks he's Hannibal reincarnated!
Who can stand for it? Even if he is good at kicking Nazi butt, it's just not done to let someone so unrefined be in charge! Chuck, you would much rather have left Hitler in charge of France and the rest instead of having Patton, I am sure. Or let the South win by keeping General Hooker instead of that drunkard Grant....
--Vance
'“Illegal Immigration is wrong, plain and simple. Until the American people are convinced we will stop future flows of illegal immigration, we will make no progress.” -Senator Chuck Schumer, 2009'
You literally can't believe anyone in D.C. when talking about illegal immigration and plans for controlling it. This quote above was Schumer declaring there would be no push for amnesty when the Democrats alone could have passed it easily in 2009. There has never been a majority of the public that supported the Gang of 8 of bill that was attempted during George W. Bush's last term in office- not even close. The Democrats dropped the idea the very moment that it wouldn't have a Republican President's signature on it. Schumer is no idiot- he would only push such a thing when it can be blamed on Republicans in a credible manner.
Did the former presidents confide this to Trump? Does it really matter- all of them have at various points declared that we need better border control, including better physical barriers on that border, and all have done so because at those same various points, they were trying to get elected/reelected to national office. They might not have confided this to Trump, but they have said it publicly. Were they lying then or now?
That's really interesting. So who was the one former president with whom Trump spoke about his current wall proposal? When did they talk? What did that former president say?
Althouse makes a case for Obama in her update to the article.
Also, is it possible for another former president to lie (in private) to Trump in order to get Trump to attempt something that president thinks is politically foolhardy, like say, building a wall? Does that mean that Trump is now lying because he should have known the original tale was a lie?
On Obama:
I still think Michelle Obama will run at some point for president, and her husband doesn't want to saddle her with defending "immoral to build walls and fences" rhetoric. Note how this only said by people in safe, deep blue House districts or states. Watch the Democratic candidates for president- how many of them make these statements going forward.
Never fear, Yancey... if Trump came out and said "The sky is blue!" Chuck would immediately go on the attack, claiming Trump lied because air is colorless, you know, and it's actually the reflection and scattering of the light that gives an appearance of blue. So for Trump to say the sky is blue is flat out a lie and Trump should be impeached and publicly executed on the White House lawn for his lies about the sky! And if you don't agree, you are a vile deplorable Trumpist who shouldn't be allowed in society or something. Not like the elite such as himself, oh no!
And you know Chuck would go down that route. He'd probably say Trump was lying if Trump said the sun rose in the east.
--Vance
That's US taxpayers, paying more taxes. It isn't Mexico paying
How about cost savings? Is that payment?
If they aren't here, they can't get benefits.
~ "Note the five exclamation points... as Terry Pratchett said, 5 exclamation points is the sure sign of an insane mind." --Vance
~ "Sure, I added the 5 exclamation points..." --Vance
Thank you.
It's mildly interesting (only mildly) to see Trump cultists trying to imagine some way to explain that "Mexico" will pay for a massive U.S. border wall. None of them are very good, but it is interesting to watch the effort.
The real question is why are all of you guessing about it, and tossing out ideas that you read about on the internet? Why isn't there a clear and concise plan from the White House, with lots of legislative co-sponsors in the House and Senate? Why is everybody still wondering what the plan might be, about one of Trump's signature promises, two years into his term? If it really was a plan to get Mexico to pay, there ought to be bipartisan support. A border wall, free of charge to the U.S. taxpayer! I'd love to see that plan!
Poor Chuck.
You and your globalist traitor friends are no longer able to provide cover for your democrat allies.
Nobody believes a thing you say. You are a joke. A fraud.
Trump is going to get a wall built despite your every effort.
Trump is infinitely more honest and sincere than you are.
Trump is/was infinitely more honest and sincere than:
Mitt Romney
Barrack Obama
George Bush
Hillary Clinton
George Bush
Jeb Bush
John Kasich
John Ryan
John McCain
Marco Rubio
Bill Clinton
Billy Kristol
Did I miss any of your traitorous lying heroes?
Open borders endless war corruptocrat traitors are all democrats now.
Begone.
Of the living former presidents, Clinton is the only one who was a pretty good president.
Carter, W, and Obama were the 7-9 hitters on the Reds.
Having these guys come out in support of illegal immigration is helpful to Trump.
Clinton and Obama also havecstrong public statements in the past against the problems illegal immigration cause. So Trump has plenty of space to embarrass them now.
The Bushes are strong advocates of illegal immigration. They love Mexicans almost as much as they love Saudis Arabians. The Bushes don’t like black people. Illegal immigration hurts lower income people the most and blacks are disproportionately lower income. The Bushes don’t care about this. They aren’t good people.
Chuck said...
It's mildly interesting (only mildly) to see Trump cultists trying to imagine some way to explain that "Mexico" will pay for a massive U.S. border wall. None of them are very good, but it is interesting to watch the effort.
Easy you lying douchebag.
We will just cut aid to Central America. Paid for.
The NAFTA rewrite with Mexico has already paid for the wall anyhow.
So again you are a liar and you are wrong in every way.
Chuck doesn’t want black people working at his club. The Mexicans are much more deferential to Master Chuck.
I note that the only thing Chuck was upset about was the 5 exclamation points. He was perfectly fine with the idea that Hitler should have kept France because that would be better than having uncouth Patton, and Lincoln should have ended the Civil War with Hooker rather than that icky Grant person.
I'm sure the thing about Patton that most horrifies Chuck (maybe, I know that Inga and Ritmo and the rest really hate this) was that Patton wanted to go to Moscow and leave the poor Germans alone. Patton knew who the real enemy was by early 1945. But Inga, Chuck, Ritmo and the rest wanted Zhukov to make it to the Atlantic.
--Vance
No, Vance, I just ignore most of what you write. Occasionally, you will write something so demonstrably false, that I just can't resist. And often -- very often in your case because of your odd habit of making up false quotes and putting them inside quotation marks -- it is a situation like this.
I've asked you before; don't try to quote me or misquote me; I'd like to be left out of your comments altogether. I don't want to be involved in whatever weird existence that you occupy.
I'd love to see that plan!
Have you moved on from "Trump is a lying lie-lie-liar!" argument? You just want a plan now? With the appropriate signatures from our betters (co-signers)?
I like Scott Adam's solution to the "plan" argument: We'll let the engineers figure it out.
More than 100 comments in, and still nobody has a clue as to which former presidents "told" President Trump "that we should have done it." Or when it happened, or exactly what was said.
That's on the Trump White House. Trump can, and should, explain his own statement.
Chuck, Althouse already identified a likely suspect. Did you read that? Does Trump need to provide audio tape? An affidavit?
Trump can, and should, explain his own statement.
"They know who they are"
Unknown said...
I note that the only thing Chuck was upset about was the 5 exclamation points.
This is the essence of the complete insincerity and moral bankruptcy of the uniparty traitors.
They pretend to want border security. But they attack Trump when he actually does it over stupid picayune bullshit.
Mitt Romney is the new cuck leader. He passed Romneycare. He wants cap and trade and he wants amnesty. He would have passed all of that and enshrined Obamneycare if he won in 2012.
They are all liars and they are inherently disingenuous.
Nobody likes traitors.
Chuck said...
More than 100 comments in, and still nobody has a clue as to which former presidents "told" President Trump "that we should have done it." Or when it happened, or exactly what was said.
That's on the Trump White House. Trump can, and should, explain his own statement.
Chuck is here in bad faith.
Brian is that the Althouse position? That Barack Obama actually told Trump that the Obama Administration should have built a great border wall? When did that happen? What was said?
I don't expect an affidavit, or an audio tape. What I expect is a specific answer to all of the relevant questions, from the Trump Administration. And then I expect a response from Obama.
So... it wasn't Jefferson's copy of the Koran, she announced it was her personal copy. I borrow my favorite line from Lethal Weapon... "Who's the dickhead now, eh?".
Chuck, why are you being so obtuse?
Your original comment: More than 100 comments in, and still nobody has a clue as to which former presidents "told" President Trump "that we should have done it."
Over 5 hours ago, Ann posted the following: See my update: Obama has not denied it!
I'm not going to speak for Ann, but it certainly sounds like a clue, at a minimum, to me.
And then I expect a response from Obama.
Obama was asked. His people have chosen not to deny. Hence, Ann's update. And sounds like you have a response.
The White House and for that matter Obama, owe you nothing further. Believe him if you want, don't believe him, but it's not proof that "Trump is a liar", no matter how much you'd like to think so.
Meanwhile the message keeps getting out that previous Presidents were talking about border security, but didn't get anything done.
And meanwhile, you are just stewing in the corner. Sometimes arguing with you is like arguing with my 9 year old.
Agree with what Gk1 said.
Just want to repeat again - what Trump said was: "This should have been done by all of the presidents that preceded me, and they all know it. Some of them have told me that we should have done it." CBS distorted the quote - what's new?
What id the Presidents say and when did they say it? I sincerely hope that every previous president is aware that the southern border is a security issue and an issue that should have been addressed long ago by one of the previous presidents now living. I sincerely hope that they realize that their own plans did not work and that they then kicked the problem down the road for another President to deal with so that now it's Trump's problem. And Trump is meeting a lot of opposition. I think that previous presidents wouldn't like to say that rather than face the opposition Trump is facing they left our borders insecure. And they wouldn't like to say that they won't back him now because they are still afraid of the opposition. But that's what it is. They wouldn't secure the border and they won't back securing the border. That's what we've had for President and I voted for one of them and backed him through thick and thin. But loyalty seems to be one way street - I should be loyal, he should do what is conWenient.
In order to believe CBS, you'd have to know EXACTLY what CBS asked the former Presidents to deny.
Be Skeptical people!
CBS: Hey, President Bush, Trump says you - i.e. President Bush - told him you wanted a 1500 mile concrete wall across every inch of the border? Did you say that? Yes or No.
Bush: NO. What I said was...
CBS: Thank you. Look at what liar Trump is!
And if you look at TRump's statement, what does:
"Should have done it" Mean?
Done what? EXACTLY
For any of you paying attention. All of our former Presidents (except Carter) have supported border security and given lip service to a fence/wall/barrier on the Mexican border.
Sometimes they were just indulging in "Campaign rhetoric" - but mostly they were supporting it as part of their "Amnesty deal".
That was McCain's shtick. "Just build the dang fence".
The best threads are always the ones where Open-Borders-Durbin-cultist Chuck forgets that he is supposed to be playing an actual LLR!!
Chuck: "I support a wall only if there is some way we can make Trump look bad for getting one."
That my friends is classic TDS.
This is classic. Trump wins again because you have a record of presidents and politicians on both sides of the aisle asking for improved border security and barriers. So now in order to claim that Trump is lying you have to parse their sentences ...
"Well, when I said I wanted a barrier, I didn't mean a WALL, I meant ... uh ... fence ...."
Durbin-cultist Chuck: "I support a wall only if there is some way we can make Trump look bad for getting one."
This is, of course, a lie.
Another in an endless list of LLR Chuck lies in support of his Open Borders dem allies.
There are no circumstances under which Chuck will ever support a wall because he and his dem pals know that would stop the massive influx of illegals that the dems need to eventually establish an electoral lock in perpetuity.
For LLR Chuck, nothing can be allowed which might hinder the complete domination of our politics by the dems.
And here on this thread today, we have LLR Chuck calling VP Pence a "s***-head".
A word LLR Chuck has never used to describe any leftist/liberal/dem/antifa-type ever, for any reason.
For why would he? That would be like calling out a teammate......
PackerBronco said...
Chuck: "I support a wall only if there is some way we can make Trump look bad for getting one."
That my friends is classic TDS.
No. I support good border security. I do not support any expensive stunts orchestrated by and for the Trump campaign, at the expense of taxpayers.
Better security would certainly include some walls in some places, just like past congresses and past administrations have enacted and funded.
In the primary campaign, all of Trump's Republican primary opponents said that Trump's "wall" rhetoric was nuts, and they were right. Trump claimed that "Mexico" would pay for the wall and they laughed at that. They were right.
Trump is such an asshole, I just don't know why anybody would want to help him. And to be certain, Trump is begging for help. He never got Mexico to pay, and he wants Congress to give him money to pay for his campaign promise.
Blogger Chuck said...
I really shouldn't expect you poor shit heads to explain Trump's weird lie in this case.
Because poor shit head Mike Pence couldn't do it.
Foul-mouth Chuck keeping it classy.
I see my lefty Facebook friends posting feed they have convinced themselves that if a 15' foot concrete wall is not constructed and paid for by an oversized check handed over from the Mexican president to Trump with cameras flashing Trump is toast "end of story!" they keep telling themselves that. Boy, are these guys in for a rude awakening.
Sorry Chuck, you wrote it, now have the integrity to own it:
If I were in Congress, I would pledge to add $5 billion, $10 billion, $20 billion for border security which would include some fractional amount for walls and fencing. All that I would ask in return for my vote would be a statement from Trump -- a groveling statement
in other words:
"I support a wall only if there is some way we can make Trump look bad for getting one."
Open Borders Durbin-cultist Chuck: "No. I support good border security."
LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL
BTW Chuckie, congrats on the launch day of your "True Conservatives" Truly Conservative Totally Conservative We Aren't Kidding This Is Conservative Webzine The Bulwark!!
I especially liked The Bulwark's continuation of the leftist lie about conservatives attacking Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez over her dancing (never happened of course) as well as the over top praising of AOC over this continuing lie!!
It's like the FusionGPS/The WeeklyStandard collusion/pro-dem narrative building days never ended!!
Congrats!
PackerBronco:
I stand by every word that I wrote. Thank you for quoting me.
I'm a dealmaker. I make deals. If Trump wanted my hypothetical vote in Congress, that would be my price. It's a negotiation.
And don't you like what a transparent negotiator I am?
You know what they call transparent negotiators? Suckers.
Durbin-cuckholster and self-admitted Smear Merchant Chuck: "Trump is such an asshole, I just don't know why anybody would want to help him. And to be certain, Trump is begging for help. He never got Mexico to pay, and he wants Congress to give him money to pay for his campaign promise."
Remember, Chuck, like all the leftists, is the guy who told us that Trump would never deliver on any Trade Deals and to this day LLR Chuck has refused to acknowledge those very Trade Deals already delivered.
LOL
It's pretty clear that Chuck's democrat/lefty allies are reading the polls and feeling the heat on the shutdown and the wall/security.
Just listen to the panic in their voices! It's clear the "bat signal" went out for all good dems/lefties/LLR's to come out and fight against actual border security!
Hence, LLR Chuck's very poor, spinning, desperate performance on this blog today.
Always amusing though, I must admit....
How do the democrats climb down from this one? Their position is popular with only a small percentage of the country. True the uniparty and their wealthy donors are against restricting cheap, malleable labor but all of the emotional blather is getting them no where. What face saving way do they have out of this mess?
I'm a dealmaker. I make deals. If Trump wanted my hypothetical vote in Congress, that would be my price. It's a negotiation ... All that I would ask in return for my vote would be a statement from Trump -- a groveling statement ...
Which means in that in your hierarchy of needs, it's more important for you to make Trump look bad than to secure the border since you would not vote for a wall otherwise.
That's classic TDS in a nutshell.
LLR Chuck: "I'm a dealmaker."
LOL
You've never actually cut any deals in your life at any level, have you? (lawn cutting services provided by 10 year olds doesn't count, by the way)
Does that partially explain your spittle-flecked lunacy and violent tendencies?
You've never actually run a winning political campaign, at any level either, have you?
LOL
I'm starting to see what the jealousy is all about.
How do the democrats climb down from this one?
They'll give Trump exactly what he wants, in return they will ask that word "wall" not be used in announcements or legislative language.
Gk1: "How do the democrats climb down from this one? Their position is popular with only a small percentage of the country"
Well, the dems still have LLR Chuck, The Bulwark and every communist/leftist/marxist group in the nation on their side.
Antifa too, and those guys are just like the guys who stormed the beaches at Normandy, right Chuck?
LOL
"I don't care about the issue. I don't care about what you, or Trump, think about border security in general."
Open Borders Lifelong Cuck, everyone.
Its like nailing jello to the wall trying to get libs to define what they mean by "enhanced border security". Like what? More holding pens so we can process illegal immigrants before we hand them back to Mexico after they have passed through our porous border? What they mean is an easier way to "citizenship". Thanks but no thanks.
There is so much projection/insecurity on display with our LLR Chuck that at times like this all you can do is sit back and marvel at how similar engaging with LLR Chuck is like with your typical screaming antifa-type on any random corner.
Portland and Seattle are chock-full of antifa/LLR Chuck types.
Trump was talking explicitly about the Wall he's been pushing since the 2016 presidential primaries-- helps to see the full context:
So the only way you’re going to stop that is by having a solid steel structure, or concrete structure, whether it’s a wall or some form of very powerful steel. Now the steel is actually more expensive than the concrete, but I think we’re probably talking about steel because I really feel the other side feels better about it, and I can understand what they’re saying. It is more expensive.
We mentioned the price, that we want $5.6 billion very strongly. Because numbers are thrown around — $1.6, $2.1, $2.5 [billion] — this is national security we’re talking about. We’re not talking about games. We’re talking about national security. This should have been done by all of the presidents that preceded me, and they all know it. Some of them have told me that we should have done it.
Gk1: "Its like nailing jello to the wall trying to get libs to define what they mean by "enhanced border security"."
Its like nailing jello to the wall trying to get libs/LLR's to define what they mean by "enhanced border security".
And actually, its not.
What the dems/LLR Chuck want is a few more pretend words/terms they can throw around to plaster over their "border security failure theatre" while ensuring that the next dem President can, with a flick of a switch, completely open the borders.
And that's the point.
What scares LLR Chuck/dems (but I repeat myself) the most is that an actual enhanced barrier is built in all the key places and this signficantly reduces the ability of the dems to flood our nation with their future voters. Then, LLR Chuck's next "magnificent" democrat President would have to actually dismantle/tear down/render useless an actual tangible object.
An enhanced physical barrier on the border would make it impossible for LLR Chuck and his Open Borders dem allies to hide that sort of action.
Thus, the sturm and drang over this speech, the wall, etc.
Pretty simple really.
Thank you, Lydia. I took that as a given but I think it is very helpful for you to quote the context completely.
Nothing drives TrumpWorld to madness quite like quoting Donald Trump back to them.
In this case, Trump was clearly claiming that "some" (more than one) former presidents told Trump that a Trump wall should be done.
Carter says he didn't have such a conversation.
Clinton says he didn't have such a conversation.
Bush 43 says he didn't have such a conversation.
Obama and Trump have not had a private conversation since 2017.
LOL
I like how LLR Chuck rolls along like Lydia and he are agreed!
Too funny.
Hmmmm, very similar to how lefty moron "Craig" interacts with others on this blog.
Very, very similar.....
Durbin-cuckholster Chuck: "Clinton says he didn't have such a conversation."
LOL
Yes, you are reading this correctly: Chuck is taking Bill Clinton at his word!
And again, why not? Why would Chuck's teammate Bill Clinton lie to him?
Gk1;
I oppose any pathway to citizenship for any illegal.
I accept the notion that enhanced border security includes more and better walls and fences, in some locations.
I would like to see a great deal more resources, attention, focus, and force applied to CBP and ICE.
My answer to the very real need for immigrant labor in some areas is work permits with no pathway to citizenship.
And now -- speaking of nailing jello to the wall -- what does Trump's "great wall" look like? I have never known what it is that he has in mind. I am quite sure that Trump himself doesn't know. It's just something for him to talk about.
"I'm a dealmaker. I make deals."
Chuck is an amazing dealmaker, he always closes the deal with his lifelong monogomous sex partner Rosie Palms.
He is not, however, a Republican, a Conservative, nor a barred Attorney. He is none of these things.
He is a liar, a spergy retard, dangerous around female political commentators who he fantasizes about assaulting, and a smear merchant of children.
I don't really care what some anonymous moby says about what they want to see I want to see what Chuckie and Nancy have on the table as far as border security. So far its just emotional blather about an "immoral wall" and the divinity of MS-13 gang bangers.
LLR Chuck: "I oppose any pathway to citizenship for any illegal."
LOLOLOLOLOLOLOL
More LLR Chuck/GOPcuck Failure Theatre.
So transparently false its hilarious.
You would think by now, having had exposed all their previous LLR lies about conservative policies they "support", our LLR's would attempt to at least somewhat modulate or adapt their approach.
But you would be wrong.
So very very wrong...
LOL
Has any media outlet other than FOX mentioned the past votes and statements of Schumer, Clinton, and Obama in support of Trump's position on immigration?
The other day I heard a speech by Schumer on the radio where he was way more stridently anti-illegal immigration than Trump is. He was like a Trumpian champion before there were Trumpians. I doubt anyone will ever ask him about that.
Bagoh: "Has any media outlet other than FOX mentioned the past votes and statements of Schumer, Clinton, and Obama in support of Trump's position on immigration?"
Poor Chuck. So much video of dems saying everything Trump is saying.
That, ladies and gentlemen, is a self-described smear merchant like Chuck's absolute nightmare!
I expect another in a long line of LLR Chuck full-blown meltdown/child rumor-mongering attacks.
Maybe Hillary DID talk to Eleanor Roosevelt . . . lengthy, mind-altering conversations! And not just with Queen Cacklepants, but with other "liberals," too. When Mrs. Roosevelt died William F. Buckley Jr. wrote that ER's life seemed to be one eternal war against the syllogism. But now pretty much all "liberals" war against the syllogism, especially with the rise of the Feminist Left, who see logical thought as a tool of the hated white male patriarchy.
Chuck said...
"I am afraid you are mistaking me for someone who has an interest in fair treatment of Donald Trump. I'm not your guy. I am interested in smearing him, hurting him and prejudicing people against him."
3/4/16, 4:46 PM
Donald Tru mp met with Reagan several times and Nixon as well--perhaps Ford.
So now at 150+ comments, and still nobody has a clue what to he hell Trump was talking about and the White House isn’t offering any explanation.
One reason that I like stories like this is that they illustrate the extent to which the impulsive and undisciplined Trump is willing to blurt out reckless fabrications to a national audience.
The other reason is that the comments on such a story illustrate the extent to which Trump Cultists are willing to dream up absurdist theories to try to cloak the Trump fabrications in some shred of truth.
Post a Comment