Althouse: "Prime Minister Theresa May on Tuesday suffered a humiliating defeat over her plan to withdraw Britain from the European Union..."

January 15, 2019

"Prime Minister Theresa May on Tuesday suffered a humiliating defeat over her plan to withdraw Britain from the European Union..."

"... thrusting the country further into political chaos with only 10 weeks to go until it is scheduled to leave the bloc. The 432-to-202 vote to reject her plan was one of the biggest defeats in the House of Commons for a prime minister in recent British history.... Now factions in Parliament will seek to seize the initiative, an unpredictable new stage in the process of withdrawing from Europe, known as Brexit.... With no consensus behind any one pathway, and a vanishing window for further negotiation, more radical solutions are rising to the fore. One group of lawmakers is campaigning for a repeat referendum, which could overturn the mandate to leave, and another favors leaving the European Union on March 29 without a withdrawal agreement, a move that experts warn could lead to shortages of some foods and an economic downturn."

From "Theresa May’s Brexit Deal Is Crushed by Parliament, Sending Britain Into Uncharted Waters" (NYT).

UPDATE: A poll. Haven't done a poll in a while....

126 comments:

Mattman26 said...: Should get interesting right about now.; 1/15/19, 2:08 PM
CJinPA said...: In 2016, Western voters shook the establishment by voting for a Trump agenda and a British exit from the European Union.

Two years later, neither has been implemented. And the establishment is trying to undo both elections.; 1/15/19, 2:12 PM
rehajm said...: Just slip out the back, Jack. Make a new plan, Stan. You don't need to be coy, Roy, Just get yourself free. Hop on the bus, Gus. You don't need to discuss much. Just drop off the key, Lee and get yourself free.

(It's really not my habit to intrude. Furthermore, I hope my meaning won't be lost or misconstrued...); 1/15/19, 2:13 PM
Mattman26 said...: There's no way out of here,
When you come in you're in for good.; 1/15/19, 2:14 PM
alanc709 said...: Labour Party policy- the beatings will continue until morale improves. God forbid we allow people to get something for which they voted.; 1/15/19, 2:14 PM
mockturtle said...: 'Chaos'. Always 'chaos' when things don't go according to the Deep State plan. Fact is, they need to just leave but apparently 70% of the MPs didn't want Brexit in the first place. I fear it may be delayed indefinitely unless people insist. And I hope they do.; 1/15/19, 2:15 PM
buwaya said...: Best to just leave.

That is the only real way to call the Eurocrats bluff.
They have enough problems as it is (see the Italians and the gilets jaunes). The last thing they need is a bunch of frustrated French export businesses. That would be a very large add-on to the gilets jaunes just to start.

They will have to create "emergency" continuations of existing laws to cover ongoing business finance and travel.; 1/15/19, 2:15 PM
mockturtle said...: And Italy won't be far behind.; 1/15/19, 2:16 PM
LYNNDH said...: More fear tactics. There will not be a shortage of food or med. Hell, Trump could send several AF transports with everything they need. A new Lend Lease. Of course just some tanker ships could do the same. Stupid.
Just hope that if May topples Corbyn doesn't get the nod.; 1/15/19, 2:16 PM
The Bergall said...: The real reason is that they tried to please everyone and presented in Menu form.

And that ass Claude Juncker for splitting the vote.; 1/15/19, 2:16 PM
Lucid-Ideas said...: If the "second referendum" route is taken, it will essentially be the death of democracy for Britain. Full stop. The voters decided the question already. It was the job of Parliament and MPs to implement it. If they take the 2nd referendum route it will be historic. And sad.; 1/15/19, 2:16 PM
FIDO said...: Good. A horrible deal, and one dictated by the people you are leaving, is worse than leaving with no deal.

To wit: what man or woman leaving an abusive spouse is going to sign a divorce agreement specifically designed by that abusive spouse to make the divorce as painful and expensive as possible?

The EU is worried about further defections and is losing something like 20% of their budget. Where are they going to get that kind of budget shortfall, Greece? Italy? Spain? Ireland? Iceland?; 1/15/19, 2:18 PM
Mattman26 said...: Maybe the Brits could ask Trump to negotiate Brexit for them. How much fun would that be?; 1/15/19, 2:20 PM
Drago said...: So strange that every single Inga-designated "New Leader Of The Free World Instead Of That Horrible Trump" has crashed and burned in record time:
May
Merkel
Macron
Trudeau (yes I know, its ludicrous to include the Boy Blunder in any real list of world leaders...but hey, thats our Inga!)

And all of that is simply a continuation of the global movement of peoples rejecting the continued leadership of the self-anointed "elites" who have demonstrated their fundamental incompetence across the board for decades.; 1/15/19, 2:24 PM
Drago said...: The Bergall: "The real reason is that they tried to please everyone and presented in Menu form."

Nope.

The real reason is that strong opponents of Brexit were in charge of negotiating with other string opponents and what that crew offered up was a non-brexit "Brexit" that they hoped would fool the rubes but never actually lead to any fundamental change......but the rubes caught on.

Think of it as a non-Brexiteers "insurance policy" against a Brexit vote victory.

As the anti-Brexiteers must have been asking and answering to themselves:

Oh my God, the Brexiteers arent going to win, are they?

No, no they wont. We will stop them.....; 1/15/19, 2:30 PM
buwaya said...: Or in fact each EU country is very likely just to tell everyone to just carry on carrying on no matter what Brussels says.

Spain does not want another real-estate collapse, if the Brits should stop buying property, or worse, selling out.; 1/15/19, 2:31 PM
whitney said...: What a shock. It should be obvious they're just going to keep having referendums until the people vote the right way.; 1/15/19, 2:33 PM
Lucid-Ideas said...: Cold Turkey
Clean Break
Kick the Habit
Call it a Day
Cut it Short
Hang it Up
Run its Course
Wrap it Up
Shut it Down; 1/15/19, 2:33 PM
buwaya said...: The bigger danger to the EU, indeed, is if each country with significant trade/finance relationships with Britain just goes ahead and preserves existing arrangements, tariffs, etc.

Which they are very likely to do simply to protect themselves. The Italians certainly will. The Spanish and French and Portuguese are most likely to.

Which will lead to the question of just how much power does the EU have. The Emperor may have no clothes.; 1/15/19, 2:38 PM
Nonapod said...: Sounds like British a version of The Swamp, The Uniparty, or whatever you want to call it. It's not what they say, it's what they do that's important. By crafting an untenable plan that was sure to not pass, it reveals that they're all globablists who despise Brexit and the rubes who want it. Seems like Britian may need it's own Trump-like figure.; 1/15/19, 2:41 PM
tcrosse said...: Seems like Britian may need it's own Trump-like figure.

Cue Boris.; 1/15/19, 2:43 PM
dreams said...: She's a real loser.; 1/15/19, 2:45 PM
Darrell said...: I saw that BBC series on the behind-the-scenes negotiations. The Brits--under May--assembled this group of Remainders to hammer out the details. The people that supported BREXIT weren't given time to speak. It was all a sham.

May wanted to lose. And Trump was right once again.; 1/15/19, 2:46 PM
Bay Area Guy said...: Chaos!; 1/15/19, 2:47 PM
MikeR said...: Not seeing articles that mentioned the obvious fact that the EU negotiators are trying to make this hurt. "We'll make you sorry." But it will hurt them at least as much. Britain is the most powerful economy in the EU.
It's not going to work, if Britain hangs tough. Next time a country wants to leave, it will gather half-a-dozen other countries to go with it.; 1/15/19, 2:47 PM
hawkeyedjb said...: " Britain is the most powerful economy in the EU."

After Germany.; 1/15/19, 2:51 PM
buwaya said...: "Sounds like British a version of The Swamp, The Uniparty, or whatever you want to call it."

That's exactly what it is.

"May wanted to lose. And Trump was right once again."

Also true.

"Britain is the most powerful economy in the EU."

Germany is the most powerful by far. The UK is #2, slightly ahead of France. German interests call the EU shots. France, or its upper classes anyway, are the Germans sidekicks. The EU was always really a Franco-German deal.; 1/15/19, 2:52 PM
FIDO said...: May: "Well, I tried but we couldn't reach a deal. So I guess we'll just cancel this divorce...what?"; 1/15/19, 2:54 PM
Inga...Allie Oop said...: Sounds like the people may be second guessing the wiseness of nationalism.; 1/15/19, 2:57 PM
Churchy LaFemme: said...: The Brits have a very nice and juicy word: "Shambolic".

Now I see why they invented it.; 1/15/19, 3:00 PM
Mike Sylwester said...: I was delighted to see that I had voted in such an overwhelming majority here.; 1/15/19, 3:01 PM
Lucid-Ideas said...: The fear-mongering I've heard regarding a "hard Brexit" is absurd. It will not be nuclear. Like anything else people, companies, lawyers and trade relationships etc. will adapt over time.

The psychological question is much more interesting. That question is "who needs whom more?"

Every time I read about Brexit and the coming "Bregret" I come away with this impression that it isn't the UK needs EU, it's the other way around - but for obvious reasons they have to hide this. Britain is not just a power-player politically and economically but also culturally.

What the EU and "Bremain" people are fear-mongering is a 21st century version of the Continental System. But they also have the historical knowledge of knowing how this has always turned out. Whether it be Napoleon or Hitler, the EU just isn't the EU without Britain and they know it.

Britain is once again acting in a historically relevant fashion by standing apart from the continentals yet again. Every time it has done so is usually because said continentals went nuts, and Britain has always been there to sort things out.

Hard Brexit. Next chapter.; 1/15/19, 3:02 PM
Tank said...: May was against Brexit, I.e. the wrong man for the job. She negotiated a no Brexit Brexit.; 1/15/19, 3:05 PM
Quaestor said...: I couldn't vote in new Althouse because I could not vote for option 1 and option 2.; 1/15/19, 3:07 PM
Lucid-Ideas said...: Also related to my earlier statement the EU needs the UK more is that they fear the slippery slope. There are at least 3 other countries that I know of seriously considering their own desire to part with the Bloc. The EU needs UK to stay in the Harem, lest other concubines vote with their feet.; 1/15/19, 3:08 PM
Ignorance is Bliss said...: ...a move that experts warn could lead to shortages of some foods...

Trump should offer to send them a stack of burgers a mile high, along with other assorted fast food.; 1/15/19, 3:10 PM
doctrev said...: Theresa May is humiliated: AGAIN. Even David Cameron looks positively Machiavellian by comparison.

What will Corbyn do? Is he going to simply smash the Conservatives and pick up the pieces in the House of Commons? Big business is even more reluctant to see a Corbyn government than the current shambles. Certain parts of the establishment are going all-in against him. Yet if he demands yet another referendum, suddenly the rural heartlands that voted for Labour AND Brexit are betrayed. Will they simply vote Conservative or LibDem? Ha, ha, ha.

The British establishment is stupid, and thinks they can salvage a solution by forcing a choice between two completely discredited options. NuLabor and MayDay. What anyone confronted with Bush/ Clinton would say is that someone else, anyone else, can waltz in and snatch up the entire government. Maybe UKIP. Maybe someone much worse.

I don't know why ossified yet osteoperotic simpletons think they can plunge headlong into international chaos and come out unscathed, but it's as amusing as it is wrong.; 1/15/19, 3:13 PM
Ignorance is Bliss said...: On the one hand, holding repeat referendums until the voters get the right answer is a sham of democracy.

On the other hand, major decisions with far reaching consequences, such as leaving the EU ( or joining the EU in the first place ) should not be made by a slim majority of the population.; 1/15/19, 3:14 PM
Antiantifa said...: Tank said, "May was against Brexit, I.e. the wrong man for the job. She negotiated a no Brexit Brexit." That is so true! The deal was awful. Voters voted to retake UK sovereignty from Brussels and May negotiated a deal that not only gave Brussels control over all things economic and financial, it also gave the EU sole authority to amend the agreement. That said, I am surprised at the number of people opposed to a second referendum. In a Democracy, the people should be allowed to change their minds, especially when so many failed to take the first vote seriously. If US voters do something we later decide is stupid, electing a Socialist President, for instance, I certainly hope people will change their minds!; 1/15/19, 3:15 PM
Rick.T. said...: You can vote "Out" any time you like
But you can never leave.; 1/15/19, 3:15 PM
Quaestor said...: I have no idea what happened to the Conservative Party. When they were led by the Iron Lady they at least had coherence. Under the Whishy Woman they have become Socialism Lite. The only important distinction between Conservative and Labour is the blue rosette which signifies the less overtly anti-semitic fascist candidate.; 1/15/19, 3:16 PM
Michael said...: You can be quite sure there would be no second vote if "Remain" had won the first one.; 1/15/19, 3:18 PM
Ann Althouse said...: I'm reminded once again of Russ Feingold's words "The game's not over until we win."; 1/15/19, 3:20 PM
doctrev said...: "On the other hand, major decisions with far reaching consequences, such as leaving the EU ( or joining the EU in the first place ) should not be made by a slim majority of the population."

Certainly not by a tiny minority, either. Which is what NuLabour seeks to do, all because they couldn't properly fix a referendum. Now they want a chance to do it again- all while anointing a deliberately incompetent "official" Leave side, and doing their best to fix the results like Iranian ayatollahs.

It doesn't honestly matter. IF the British people are ignored, they're certainly not going to make the mistake of thinking that the only solution to Britain's problems are more elections.; 1/15/19, 3:20 PM
Churchy LaFemme: said...: I have no idea what happened to the Conservative Party.

Just as a casual reader of history, it seems to me the Conservatives have had serious problems at least since the "Khaki Election" during the Boer War. Churchill apparently had to almost grab the cabinet by the throat to avoid a withdrawal from the War, and Thatcher was stabbed in the back. The rest of the Tory PMs seem to have been "Yes, Socialsim of course, but not so fast.."; 1/15/19, 3:24 PM
The Godfather said...: Remember "Fog in the Channel. Continent Cut Off"?; 1/15/19, 3:30 PM
Darrell said...: Hard BREXIT. You know that 39 Billion you say we owe? We can't find any record of that. We can deliver the equivalent in cruise missiles to Brussels, if that's acceptable.The initial payment can be there shortly. Let Germany and France make up the difference. People never get tired of more taxes--ask the French.; 1/15/19, 3:32 PM
Jim at said...: Sounds like the people may be second guessing the wiseness of nationalism.

You have no idea what you're talking about.

The 'people' have already spoken. It's their elected officials who are throwing this temper tantrum in hopes for a second vote.

And if they do get that second vote? I suspect Brexit will pass by an even wider margin.; 1/15/19, 3:33 PM
bagoh20 said...: If a do-over is alright then why not another do-over, and another...; 1/15/19, 3:40 PM
bagoh20 said...: In my experience few things are as unlikely as a catastrophe predicted by "experts", especially "government experts" who are almost always not.; 1/15/19, 3:42 PM
Inga...Allie Oop said...: “You have no idea what you're talking about.

The 'people' have already spoken. It's their elected officials who are throwing this temper tantrum in hopes for a second vote.

And if they do get that second vote? I suspect Brexit will pass by an even wider margin.”

You have no idea what you’re blathering about.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/jan/15/a-terrible-deal-remainers-and-leavers-unite-against-theresa-may-brexit-plan
“Thousands of people’s vote supporters let out a roar in Parliament Square as big screens broadcast the thumping defeat of Theresa May’s deal to leave the European Union.

A second cheer went up when Jeremy Corbyn, the leader of the Labour party, announced he had tabled a vote of no confidence in the government. Crowds had stood in the cold on Tuesday evening listening to MPs, actors, doctors and representatives of youth and community groups as they outlined why the government must return to the people for a second referendum on leaving the EU.”; 1/15/19, 3:45 PM
Temujin said...: You know, they can get yellow vests in Great Britain, too. This elitist war on their own people is not going to end well.; 1/15/19, 3:45 PM
Greg P said...: That said, I am surprised at the number of people opposed to a second referendum. In a Democracy, the people should be allowed to change their minds, especially when so many failed to take the first vote seriously. If US voters do something we later decide is stupid, electing a Socialist President, for instance, I certainly hope people will change their minds!

1: We get to vote for a new President, 4 years later.

2: Sure, let's have a new referendum: Should the original Brexit vote be cancelled?

If they can get 2/3 in for of the Motion to Reconsider, then it should pass.

Other than that? Stick with Brexit, and leave; 1/15/19, 3:46 PM
Darrell said...: ..a move that experts warn could lead to shortages of some foods...

We probably still have powdered milk and powdered eggs left over from WWII. You guys loved it last time around. I'm sure Trump will send it right over.; 1/15/19, 3:46 PM
gahrie said...: That said, I am surprised at the number of people opposed to a second referendum

So do we stop at two? Three? Best three out of five? If the rule isn't "stop after one" then what is it and why?; 1/15/19, 3:46 PM
Greg P said...: A second cheer went up when Jeremy Corbyn, the leader of the Labour party, announced he had tabled a vote of no confidence in the government. Crowds had stood in the cold on Tuesday evening listening to MPs, actors, doctors and representatives of youth and community groups as they outlined why the government must return to the people for a second referendum on leaving the EU.”

Wow, I'm shocked, shocked, that a bunch of New Class weasels want democracy destroyed; 1/15/19, 3:47 PM
Inga...Allie Oop said...: ““This is not a deal that gains sovereignty; it’s a deal that gives up sovereignty, and that’s why parliament will reject it,” he said. “This is not a deal that opens us up to the world; this is a deal that will make us subservient to Donald Trump’s USA, and that’s why we reject it. This is a deal that harks back to those days of empire when people were shackled and … black and brown people were subjugated.”

He added: “We reject this small-minded vision of our country, that would create a hostile environment for our friends from the European Union and charge them for the right to live alongside their partners, their children, their loved ones and their friends – we reject that.””

There you go.; 1/15/19, 3:49 PM
Dear corrupt left, go F yourselves said...: The voters voted. But hey! keep voting until you get to the desired result.; 1/15/19, 3:59 PM
Dear corrupt left, go F yourselves said...: Brexit has nothing to do with Donald Trump.; 1/15/19, 4:00 PM
John Ray said...: Since the beginning of WW1, France has known, that without Britian, all is lost. Germany, since the rise of Hitler, has known that Europe is a lost cause without Britain. Even though Hitler, in so many terms, admitted it, he certainly did not act like it to his predictable demise.

Today, Germany (power number 1) and France (power number 3), know that the EU cannot stand without Britain (power number 2). For all her failings, she (Britain) is a formidable entity. The EU, and the British people who have banked everything on EU know that without Britian, the EU with Germany and France lead a net-negative union in terms of military and economic power. The EU is openly talking about its own military; the Brits had better leave sooner than later for that reason, if no other.

Sorry about all the parens, my mother gave me a box of them for Christmas.; 1/15/19, 4:00 PM
Sebastian said...: Ignoring the people is the EU way.

It happened after referenda in France and the Netherlands on the EU "constitution."

Revoting, as a form of fuck-the-deplorables elitism, is part of what the Brexit vote was meant to prevent.; 1/15/19, 4:01 PM
Dear corrupt left, go F yourselves said...: Leftists will steal the vote.

The vote was taken. Brexit won.

The left cannot live by rules or votes of basic democracy.; 1/15/19, 4:01 PM
Dear corrupt left, go F yourselves said...: This comment has been removed by the author.; 1/15/19, 4:02 PM
Lucid-Ideas said...: "That said, I am surprised at the number of people opposed to a second referendum"

I would imagine one of the reasons some people are opposed is because they now have little faith the opposition wouldn't go into overdrive to make another referendum as unfair as possible. Like Ann said, these people live by the axiom "the game's not over till we win." That attitude shouldn't get a second vote, and shouldn't even have a seat at the table.

Alea Iacta Est. The die was cast.; 1/15/19, 4:03 PM
Dear corrupt left, go F yourselves said...: Removing what was voted upon = leftwing totalitarian oligarchy.; 1/15/19, 4:06 PM
Inga...Allie Oop said...: https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2018/mar/27/brexit-groups-had-common-plan-to-avoid-election-spending-laws-says-wylie

“The EU referendum was won through fraud, the whistleblower Christopher Wylie has told MPs, accusing Vote Leave of improperly channelling money through a tech firm with links to Cambridge Analytica.

Wylie told a select committee that the pro-Brexit campaign had a “common plan” to use the network of companies to get around election spending laws and said he thought there “could have been a different outcome had there not been, in my view, cheating”.

“It makes me so angry, because a lot of people supported leave because they believe in the application of British law and British sovereignty. And to irrevocably alter the constitutional settlement of this country on fraud is a mutilation of the constitutional settlement of this country.””

Sound familiar?; 1/15/19, 4:08 PM
Bill, Republic of Texas said...: This was the plan all along. The elites put it May to negotiate a horrible deal. The deal would either be crammed down their through or a second referendum would be held.

The new vote will be to Remain. The peasants know their place.

Now they should pretend to go for hard exit. Germany is in a recession. A hard exit would really hurt their economy.

Spain cannot allow the English to be forced out of the Country. The real estate market would collapse and Spain would slide into depression.

France is worried about the yellow vests. Imagine the anger if France goes into a recession because EU elites were playing games?

I don't know about Greece, Italy or Portugal (lots of Brits in Portugal too) but I don't see them siding with the EU.

Interesting times.; 1/15/19, 4:10 PM
Lucid-Ideas said...: Excellent defense of and for Hard Brexit by Sargon of Akkad. Highly recommend.; 1/15/19, 4:13 PM
Inga...Allie Oop said...: http://theconversation.com/arron-banks-criminal-investigation-could-evidence-against-him-make-brexit-void-106281

“The National Crime Agency is to open a criminal investigation into Brexit campaign backer Arron Banks after the Electoral Commission revealed that it had reasonable grounds to suspect that Banks was “not the source” of millions of pounds in loans to the organisation Leave.EU. Banks has denied that there was any funding from Russia in the £8 million he donated to the Brexit campaign.

There have also been fines for overspending on Brexit campaigns and questions about how voter data was used.“; 1/15/19, 4:19 PM
Inga...Allie Oop said...: The people of Great Britian are speaking, they are saying the Brexit vote was fraudulent. Interesting that Trump and Putin are proBrexit.

https://www.bristol247.com/news-and-features/news/bollocks-to-brexit-bus-arrives-in-bristol/

“The Bollocks to Brexit bus was crowdfunded by the campaign group EU Flag Mafia, with a central message that Brexit is not a done deal.
“There’s quite a lot of people who find Brexit more offensive than the word bollocks,” said Kay. “I’m more offended with my rights being taken away as part of a fraudulently won referendum campaign than the use of a word that may or may not be vulgar.”

The bus is currently on a tour of the UK, urging those who support its aims to write to their MP.”; 1/15/19, 4:24 PM
Seeing Red said...: Instapundit linked a couple of days ago Germany is in a recession.

Time for BRAFTA.; 1/15/19, 4:26 PM
Seeing Red said...: You want oil? We got oil.

And a lot of processed cheese.; 1/15/19, 4:26 PM
Seeing Red said...: Back to the vulgarians.

Keep voting until we get the result we want.

No one’s forcing them to stay in Britain. If they want the continent, move.; 1/15/19, 4:28 PM
Seeing Red said...: Fines for overspending? Bwaaaaaaaa; 1/15/19, 4:29 PM
Sebastian said...: Let this be a warning to Democrats: be sure to change the voters before you allow any more major votes.; 1/15/19, 4:30 PM
Seeing Red said...: The yellow jackets of France are also in spirit in Cali.

One doesn’t want to move, but one doesn’t want to stay in.; 1/15/19, 4:31 PM
Yancey Ward said...: I have been predicting for 2 1/2 years that a 2nd referendum would be held at some point and that Remainers, of which the political class is 80%, would win that second vote even if they have to cheat to do it- they would have cheated the first time if they hadn't had Hillaryesque confidence in victory.

The tell was always the fact that May was chosen to replace Cameron- May was a Remainer then, and is now. Ask yourself this- if you were negotiating an Exit Agreement that you really didn't want Parliament to actually vote "Yes" on, what would you have done differently than May actually did do?

The EU have been helping May to carry out this Kabuki negotiation process all along. They are now setting up a legal revocation of the Article 50 notice. Originally, once Article 50 was invoked by the UK, it could not be taken back was all the claims by both the UK government and the EU, but I even predicted 2 years ago that as the date approached, that would suddenly be changed to pave the way for 2nd referendum.

The second referendum is coming, and the Remainers want to make it 3 way referendum to split the Brexit vote. Even if the voters are allowed a conditional vote on such a 3 way referendum, the very fact of two Brexit options greatly favors Remain since such a referendum would depress Brexit turnout. However, even if it is two way, the government will cheat the vote in whatever manner they can get away with.; 1/15/19, 4:32 PM
Lucid-Ideas said...: I would love to go out like Crowder with a microphone in UK and go up to Remainders and ask them:

Me: Do you believe in the right to divorce?

Them: Yes of course!

Me: That divorce is sometimes the healthier option?

Them: Of course.

Me: And what about the right to secede?; 1/15/19, 4:36 PM
Jim at said...: Typical, Inga bullshit. Cut and paste comments from totalitarians who didn't get the result they wanted the first time when they lost.

History is full of thugs like you.; 1/15/19, 4:37 PM
Inga...Allie Oop said...: “Typical, Inga bullshit. Cut and paste comments from totalitarians who didn't get the result they wanted the first time when they lost.

History is full of thugs like you.”

Typical ignorant and uninformed blathering by Jim the Gnat. Before you open your trap, try to inform yourself about what is happening and not what comes out of your ass.; 1/15/19, 4:43 PM
Francisco D said...: History is full of thugs like you.

I would not go that far, Jim.

Inga is not a thug, just an idiot who doesn't understand what she is cutting and pasting. She has a long history of getting talking points from the usual sources and presenting them to us as if they were pearls of wisdom.

The DNC desperately needs idiots like her or there would be no Democrat party.; 1/15/19, 4:56 PM
alanc709 said...: The only thing that needs to come out of your ass, Inga, is your head.; 1/15/19, 5:10 PM
Mattman26 said...: On the re-vote concept, it seems to me everyone needs to know what the rules are going to be from the outset. I imagine Cameron never thought Brexit would win, but surely a surprise result doesn't get you a do-over. I'm pretty sure it was at least implicit that the vote was pitched as binding: vote out, we'll get out.

Sure you can vote for other things later, like a new president after four years, as someone above noted. So here: Honor the Brexit vote. If people later want to get back in, they can vote on that. But you don't disregard the first vote; you honor it.; 1/15/19, 5:19 PM
Inga...Allie Oop said...: You folks, so full of uninformed opinion, don’t even have a basic understanding about this Brexit issue and why the people of GB
are calling for a 2nd Referendum.

Maybe y’all should get your heads out of Trump’s ass and you might actually get a clue about the nonsense you spew.; 1/15/19, 5:20 PM
Rick said...: You folks, so full of uninformed opinion, don’t even have a basic understanding about this Brexit issue

Pretty coming from someone who thinks Brexit is about Trump.; 1/15/19, 5:21 PM
Inga...Allie Oop said...: Brexit is about Trump only in the fact that both are driven by Nationalistic fervor. The people of Great Britian apparently have come to this realization and are rejecting it.; 1/15/19, 5:27 PM
The Godfather said...: The problem with the referendum wasn't the result, but the fact that there was no political party that supported implementing that result. It was like Trump winning a referendum on US trade and immigration policies, while the election contest was between Hillary and Mitt.

I assume there'll be a new election soon, and Labor will win. The Brits will then experience radical socialism as the consequence of squishy "Conservativism". If there's any backbone left among them, they'll look to a reborn "conservative" Conservative Party to save them. If not, then they'll look for the yellow vests.; 1/15/19, 5:30 PM
Rick said...: If US voters do something we later decide is stupid, electing a Socialist President, for instance, I certainly hope people will change their minds!

Do you think we will schedule a Presidential vote 1 year later instead of 4?; 1/15/19, 5:30 PM
narciso said...: because they are ignorant of their history, what the bourbon kings, at least one pontiff, king phillip of spain, napoleon and hitler, tried to do, Spinelli's Wurlitzer has been able to accomplish with firing a shot,; 1/15/19, 5:30 PM
FullMoon said...: More Importantly:

Should Chuck be quiet?; 1/15/19, 5:32 PM
Rick said...: Nationalistic fervor.

Look how she strains to portray self-rule negatively. They should go all the way and announce they support colonialism.; 1/15/19, 5:34 PM
FullMoon said...: Mattman26 said...

There's no way out of here,
When you come in you're in for good.

The rope in the garage.; 1/15/19, 5:38 PM
Rick said...: Hard BREXIT. You know that 39 Billion you say we owe? We can't find any record of that.

That doesn't really work. The Brits want a trade deal which the Euros aren't going to grant if the Brits stiff them.; 1/15/19, 5:40 PM
FullMoon said...: You folks, so full of uninformed opinion, don’t even have a basic understanding about this Brexit issue and why the people of GB
are calling for a 2nd Referendum.

The people let their reps know how they feel about it, thus the extraordinary defeat suffered by the rich elite trying to override the will of the upstanding lower, middle and upper middle classes.

Naturally, some so-called Liberal Americans with Germanic tendencies commenting on this subject would welcome crushing the neck of truth, honor and democracy with the well worn boot of blatant Nazi extremism.; 1/15/19, 5:45 PM
buwaya said...: A very important little bit of information that should have, perhaps, mattered in all that negotiating, had it been a more Trump-like person doing that job -

The UK has a very large negative balance of trade with the EU as a whole, and with every major nation in the EU. In other words the net pain of a trade problem is going to be felt far worse on the other side of the channel.

The UK has a formidable negotiating position WRT the EU. Much like Trump has WRT China.; 1/15/19, 5:58 PM
Rick said...: In other words the net pain of a trade problem is going to be felt far worse on the other side of the channel.

The Euros won't be blamed for the fallout though so they don't really care.; 1/15/19, 6:03 PM
buwaya said...: The UK makes up for the trade balance through net investment - in other words rich foreigners, especially those of the EU, like putting money in the UK as that keeps it away from their local governments. The UK is also a favorite destination of Russian/Ex Soviet Union money BTW.; 1/15/19, 6:06 PM
buwaya said...: "The Euros won't be blamed for the fallout though so they don't really care."

They will be. What the UK imports from France for instance, among other agricultural products - wine.

Which is a thing that comes straight from the regions inhabited by those gilets jaunes, the heirs to those EU-annoyed farmers who loved to block roads with their tractors.; 1/15/19, 6:09 PM
buwaya said...: So there are an amazing number of very rich Euros that keep their stash in the UK.
Or as much of their stash as they can sneak out. This is, needless to say, leverage.; 1/15/19, 6:10 PM
wildswan said...: "a move that experts warn could lead to shortages of some foods"

So I wondered: which foods will there be shortages of. Among other things Britain exports meat, milk, cream, breakfast cereal, whiskey and salmon. It imports vegetables, wine, bacon and eggs. So raise more pigs and hens in Britain, learn to love dandelion salad, learn to make beer and - good to go.; 1/15/19, 6:14 PM
buwaya said...: "So I wondered: which foods will there be shortages of."

Stuff from France Spain and Portugal. Wine. Lots of Wine.
The Brits drink plenty of expensive wine.
One of the oldest ongoing high volume international trades on Earth btw, and seldom interrupted.

This was a big business in the Middle Ages.; 1/15/19, 6:18 PM
alanc709 said...: The thing that continues to amaze me is that so-called right wing political parties think the solution to socialist proposals from the left is socialism-lite. You would think that someone somewhere would think to try conservatism, instead of right-wing progressivism.; 1/15/19, 6:25 PM
JackWayne said...: Whatever happens, at least May and her Conservatives In Name Only will be finished. There will be a huge turnover of MP’s.; 1/15/19, 7:02 PM
JackWayne said...: IE, the referendum was a typical parliamentary/congressional failure to perform their duty. They shuffled it off to the voters when they could have withdrawn from the EU by a simple act of Parliment. If the MP’s turnover as I expect, in a couple of years I expect Britain to simply leave.; 1/15/19, 7:04 PM
bagoh20 said...: "Maybe y’all should get your heads out of Trump’s ass and you might actually get a clue about the nonsense you spew."

I haven't seen that much projection since drive-in theaters.; 1/15/19, 7:06 PM
buwaya said...: Macron giving way under pressure -

MACRON CRISIS: Desperate leader considers migrant quota as Yellow Vest protest rage on

In a sweeping letter to the French pubic, Mr Macron said he had heard the public’s anger and shared its impatience for a “more prosperous country and a fairer society”. He then mentioned the possibility of introducing annual immigration quotas, saying it would not apply to asylum status. He said: “As regards immigration, once our asylum obligations have been met, would you like us to be able to set annual quotas defined by Parliament?”; 1/15/19, 7:07 PM
narciso said...: Boris Johnson is kind of a force of nature, an iconoclastic Tory who sees himself a little like churchill, son of an qmerican iconoclast he was the driving force based on his columns in the telegraph, knifed in the back by gove a putative ally.; 1/15/19, 7:17 PM
narciso said...: In order to leave may who represented everything brexiteers were concerned about.; 1/15/19, 7:27 PM
tcrosse said...: In spite of all the knives in his back, this might be Boris' moment.; 1/15/19, 7:29 PM
Drago said...: Golden Dossier Fangirl and Accuser of Brett Kavanaugh Inga: "Maybe y’all should get your heads out of Trump’s ass and you might actually get a clue about the nonsense you spew."

Remember, Inga proclaimed May, Merkel, Macron and the child-President Trudeau "The New Leaders Of The Free World!!!"......

...and we've seen how that's turned out, haven't we?

Inga, how do you suppose you got that so amazingly, spectacularly, astonishingly wrong and in such record time?

Or is it possible that it is you, yourself, that possesses the Political Reverse Midas Touch?

Perhaps you are simply reeling from your earlier passionate, over the top defense and praise of The Womens March, the greatest gals in the world you told us, only now to see the entire left abandoning these anti-semitic hack punks who want Israel destroyed.

LOL

Gold Jerry! Gold!!!; 1/15/19, 7:43 PM
tim maguire said...: They shouldn’t have put a group of Remainers in charge of implementing Brexit.; 1/15/19, 8:10 PM
narciso said...: Apparently, boris is not willing to pull the trigger against may quite yet.; 1/15/19, 8:16 PM
Drago said...: Tim maguire: "They shouldn’t have put a group of Remainers in charge of implementing Brexit."

"They" didnt.

The Remainer PM put the negotiation team of all remainers in place after the Brexit and at the very beginning of negotiations conceded every single point and possible leverage to the EU.

Every single one.

Then colluded with the EU to craft a fake "Brexit plan which is everything but.

Just another "Insurance Policy" being deployed on the pathway to The West's destruction.; 1/15/19, 8:18 PM
Drago said...: narciso: "Apparently, boris is not willing to pull the trigger against may quite yet."

Because it would likely lead to a Labour victory if elections were called.

So the conservatives will likely stick with May on the No Confidence vote.

"Strategery"; 1/15/19, 8:20 PM
narciso said...: Andrew marr who is the BBC's enviro reporter, wrote a wicked Roman a clef 'head of state's that depicted how far the remainers would go to hold on to power.; 1/15/19, 8:21 PM
narciso said...: Yes that will happen in due course, I'm surprised it didnt happen before grenfell towers; 1/15/19, 8:23 PM
Michael said...: The U.K. Should keep the 39 billion and tell the EU to shove their EU sized bananas up their unelected asses. The EU members will not stop trading with the U.K. After a few weeks of Brie rotting. They have let the tail wag the dog too long.

And a second vote on Brexit will be the end for Britain, the finish.; 1/15/19, 8:43 PM
Gahrie said...: The England that I lived in and loved died the day the Chunnel opened.; 1/15/19, 9:03 PM
JayDee77 said...: Wait until a revote is tried against the next Republican to win the presidency. Hell, it might just happen if Trump wins in 2020.; 1/15/19, 9:44 PM
Enlighten-NewJersey said...: Hey Inga, what do you have against the nation state?; 1/15/19, 9:54 PM
Charlie Currie said...: There must be some way outta here
Said the joker to the thief; 1/15/19, 10:37 PM
cyrus83 said...: When the public is asked to vote on a proposition, the result should be a semi-permanent settling of the question at hand, not to be asked again for at least 10-20 years. The people voted for Brexit. The government has to deliver Brexit or else give away the game that elections are window dressing when the right result is obtained and meaningless when the wrong result is obtained.

It's not really a question of fairness so much as it's a question of the point of having people vote. To insist on a re-vote 3 years after the first vote, without ever having implemented the decision of that vote, cannot avoid giving the public the impression that the process is a sham. Or, to put it more cynically, never ask the public a question when you are uncertain of their answer.; 1/15/19, 10:37 PM
Douglas2 said...: Having election do-overs until you win was how the EU has passed every major change that required referenda in one country or another. Keep holding elections until those opposed run out of money for campaigning or give up for other reasons. The EU side of course has unlimited funding.; 1/15/19, 10:57 PM
Steven said...: In general, I agree with the no-do-over view (especially given how often the EU has abused the process), but not in this specific.

The fundamental problem with the current situation is that is not, in fact, clear what Britons voted for, as Brexit could mean anything from a clone of the Norway-EU relationship to full hard Brexit. The fact that the opposition vote on the May deal was a hybrid of Leave and Remain MPs just highlights this issue.

The necessary move here is, accordingly, a binding clarifying referendum with all three actual options on the ballot:

A) Remain.
B) The May-negotiated deal.
C) Hard Brexit, specifically requiring three NOs: NO customs union, NO ECJ jurisdiction over the UK, and NO British contributions to the EU budget.

Have the voters rank in order of preference, and score with the Ranked Pairs method. Then whatever wins, wins.; 1/16/19, 2:41 AM
Daniel Jackson said...: "Ignoring the people is the EU way."

It certainly is the political mode of operation in France where the opinions of the People have been ignored for a millennium. The game of kings has always been about extraction and the imposition of another impot on other impots.

The Elites ALWAYS know better, which is why they are referred to as "Your Betters" and they can be identified by their titles, grades, and chateaus.

As always, this "rule" does not apply to the comments posted here where "folks" with real world experience share their wisdom and some crackpot fantasies (although I have a nagging thought that some of those are really false flags to stir up opinion and the entertaining debate).

When Brexit is reconfirmed (since it will be a grand Yellow Jacket moment), the EU will take whatever deal they can. The Mistress Mode of Business is the French cultural way: I will ALWAYS be your True Friend; for a price.

The Mistress is aging and losing the bloom in the cheeks. It's time to renegotiate the price.; 1/16/19, 7:01 AM
Karga said...: Hey Steven the Referendum was clear. Remain or Leave. The problem is the parliamentarians who are refusing to abide by the people's vote. I find the lot a bunch of non-honorable members elected by the people to go against the wishes of the people. I doubt it any of them will survive in the next election which they cannot avoid but call should Brexit is ignored or a second referendum is called.; 1/16/19, 7:53 AM