Trump’s willingness to constantly repeat false claims has posed a unique challenge to fact checkers. Most politicians quickly drop a Four-Pinocchio claim, either out of a duty to be accurate or concern that spreading false information could be politically damaging.It used to work, this fact correction power. What happened? Well, Trump happened....
Not Trump. The president keeps going long after the facts are clear, in what appears to be a deliberate effort to replace the truth with his own, far more favorable, version of it. He is not merely making gaffes or misstating things, he is purposely injecting false information into the national conversation....
ADDED: Jack Kerouac advised: "Write what you want bottomless from bottom of the mind" (previously quoted by me in July 2009).
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77 comments:
Yeah. It started with Trump.
Gee nothing about the press spreading lies until those lies become their truth?
Kessler should give the first Bottomless Pinocchio to himself. Often these "fact checks" are conducted on opinions of what might happen - which is impossible to fact check. Yet, Kessler will declare one opinion wrong.
Should "bottomless" be nose related?
The infinite Pinocchio at least suggests length.
The WaPo fact checker column has always been editorial. They say so in the disclosure.
Bottomless Pinocchio is Jumping the Shark.
It is SO much more convenient for the press when politicians stick to a few massive lies that are pleasant to believe in: global warming, the goodness of diversity, the jollity of homosexuality, the morality of mass illegal immigration.
geez ann, have you no memory of history? Presidents, Congress, bureaucrats etc have lied to us forever. I read an article about a Russian immigrant (legal) to the US. When he got here and observed our bounty he cried --- due to the realization that he and his ancestors had been lied to for so long. I cry to. Lies killed one son of mine, lies almost left my dad behind in POW camp after WWII, Lies sent a lot of my contemporaries (males) to Vietnam. My second son went to Iraq based on lies --- but not the ones the press promotes "no WMDs, Bush lied". The boys who went there saw first hand the WMDs, many went to Syria before the war. HRC lied and killed Americans in Benghazi. Obambi ruined our health care insurance system and almost the economy with LIES. Gen Flynn is prosecuted by LIARS. John Dean LIED. Good grief the list in recent history is exhaustive.
I'd call it the Cyrano Pinocchio. Two nose related fabulists,
Or all it a Munchausen Pinocchio, an indicator of the absurdity and inconsistency of the lies that so irk the virtuous.
he is purposely injecting false information into the national conversation....
SO ARE YOU.
Kessler is just phoning it in at this point, not to mention massively projecting. Even the most casual examination of these "Four Pinocchio" lies shows there is at least some truth to many of them: Hillary-Russia collusion presumably refers to the Fusion GPS involvement in the phony Russia dossier. When Trump talks about the cost of NATO I doubt he is referring to "official budgets," but rather attributing large portions of the US defense budget implicitly to NATO. So at most it's hyperbole. And so on.
From the WaPoo link: "On 30 separate occasions, Trump has also falsely accused special counsel Mueller of having conflicts of interest and the staff led by the long-time Republican of being “angry Democrats.”
This is a major lie???? Right behind those trees there is a forest somewhere.
Hear, Hear!!! What sdharms said... at 6:40am.
“First, no matter what’ve you’ve heard, if you like your doctor -- or health care plan -- you can keep it.”. That’s about as clear and unambiguous as the president could possibly be: If you like your doctor, you can keep your doctor. Period.
I guess Kessler never heard of a plastic turkey, either.
The Pleasure Island Post, working to turn us all into enslaved donkeys.
In each of the last two years ACA mandates have forced my insurance carriers to cancel my health insurance policies.
"You can keep your policies."
Gee, Trump won’t allow Kessler to be the final arbiter of truth! Wasn’t Kessler elected Final Arbiter of Truth overwhelmingly? Who’s Trump think he is?
Kessler's list of Trump's bottomless lies is thorough.
Trump should pull an Obama maneuver here. Obama used the IRS, Trump should use the Anti-Trust division to go after Bezos/WaPoo/Amazon. Unfortunately it's probably loaded with Deep State puppets.
Trump is different because he does in the open what the rest of them do in the shadows.
Trump, unlike the other liars, also tells lies in order to advance a truth. The lies are a distraction that keeps his critics looking petty and ridiculous while the people who look to him as possibly our last best hope to beat back Leviathan see the underlying reality that he has forced into the public debate with his lies.
"The president keeps going long after the facts are clear..."
Also, on the same page, "Russians interacted with at least 14 Trump associates during the campaign and transition"
From the WaPoo link: "The bar for the Bottomless Pinocchio is high: The claims must have received three or four Pinocchios from The Fact Checker, and they must have been repeated at least 20 times."
Question for the Post: If a former FBI director's testimony includes saying "I don't know, I don't recall, I don't remember" over 200 times, does that constitute a Bottomless Pinocchio?
There seems to be some confusion. Lemmeesplain.
It's okay for the WAPO to lie because their lies are the good kind, don't you see? They are telling lies for the Greater Good, which they understand even though you probably can't, so you should thank them, not be critical and obstinate.
Trump, on the other hand, is telling his lies for purely selfish reasons and that's the bad kind.
Hope this helps.
Wasn't it Reagan who commented that the real trouble with Democrats is all the things they know that aren't so?
For some reason, reflecting on Trump's lies reminds me of a scene from Bad Santa.
You know, I think I've turned a corner...I beat the shit out of some kids today. But it was for a purpose. It made me feel good about myself. It was like I did something constructive with my life.
"Most politicians quickly drop a Four-Pinocchio claim, either out of a duty to be accurate or concern that spreading false information could be politically damaging."
So most politicians also tell flat-out lies, but recognize that Glenn Kessler has the authority to make them stop. It must annoy Glenn Kessler that Trump doesn't recognize his authority.
"If you want to keep your health care plan, you can keep your health care plan. Period." This flat-out lie was told much longer than any of Mr. Trump's flat-out lies. Only, Glenn Kessler didn't speak up for years, so Mr. Obama didn't have to stop.
This is why it's useful to have the media on your side. Your lies are so much more credible if you can get the media to promote them. That's why JFK had such an idyllic marriage, and LBJ kept us out of war.
Fact checking by countering with a liberal opinion as if it is a fact. Liberal fact checkers.
Reagan was riffing on this Mark Twain quote:
"It ain't what you don’t know that gets you into trouble. It's what you know for sure that just ain’t so."
I thought H.L. Mencken or Will Rogers said something similar but directed at a political opponent.
In any case, applies quite nicely to these 'fact checkers'.
I'm so bored with WaPo coverage. I'm somewhat curious what truth Trump is stating that WaPo is trying to call a lie. Perhaps it is noting once again how fake the dossier is. Also, I'm not interested in giving them a click for creating fake news.
Well there's a washingtonian piece in 2013 and a post piece in 2017.
This one:
https://www.washingtonian.com/2013/05/30/forged-under-firebob-mueller-and-jim-comeys-unusual-friendship/
Maybe they should fine their own employees 50 demerits
https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2017/live-updates/trump-white-house/trump-comey-and-russia-how-key-washington-players-are-reacting/brothers-in-arms-the-long-friendship-between-mueller-and-comey/?utm_term=.246542d10e6c
William,
Not just LBJ.
Woodrow Wilson '16 and FDR '40 both ran on the slogan "he kept us out of war"
All 3 were actively scheming to get us in after their elections.
I'm trying to think of something else these 3 had in common but drawing a blank.
Can anyone help me out here?
John Henry
The WaPo and NYTimes are for the anti-Trump crowd, the rest of us ignore them.
Yes of course but by their own standards, they are wrong unless minitrue.
"From the WaPoo link: "On 30 separate occasions, Trump has also falsely accused special counsel Mueller of having conflicts of interest and the staff led by the long-time Republican of being “angry Democrats.” "
Yeh, and I am sure that WaPo has thoroughly explained why Andrew Weissman, then working in Organized Crime at the DoJ, was involved in a number of meetings with Steele and Simpson, of Fusion GPS (funded by the Clinton campaign) starting in August of 2016, three months before the election, and how he then got onto Mueller's team as its lead prosecutor. Historically one of the most ethically challenged prosecutors currently working for the DoJ getting the job of leading the investigation, after having essentially worked with contractors to the Clinton campaign to illegally use FISA to spy on the Trump campaign, transistion, and White House. Or, is the argument that at least one of the prosecutors is not an "angry Democrat", so Trump is lying.
Glenn Kessler, the WaPo "Fact Checker," is thoroughly exasperated.
I bet he is!
Search...
"washington post" migrant teargas --> First two results mention "BANNED IN WARFARE".
"washington post" paris teargas --> Can't find any mention of "BANNED IN WARFARE".
"Well, Trump happened..."
That's not sufficient as an explanation for the FAIL which is "fact-check."
Sufficient would include "Lying Press happened." Whether the Press has been cooperating with Gummint as it did during every (D) Administration since FDR, or has been neutral about various lies put forth by the FedGov, or--as it is today--lying like Hell about Trump, his motives, and his activities, the Press brought about its own well-deserved demise as a "neutral fact-based party."
Maybe the WaPo fact checker should start "Fact checking" the WaPo writers.
Then, they'd have some credibility.
I've NEVER seen the MSM lie about a POTUS - the way they've lied about Trump.
"Still, he persisted."
“First, no matter what’ve you’ve heard, if you like your doctor -- or health care plan -- you can keep it.”.
That begins with immediately repealing and replacing the disaster known as Obamacare … You’re going to have such great health care, at a tiny fraction of the cost—and it’s going to be so easy.
...
Bob Boyd said... There seems to be some confusion. Lemmeesplain...
Thanx Bob, many people (here And there) seem to think there is some sort of 'double standard' , there's NOT. There's just one Standard: Anything the Demos do is good, Anything done by others is Bad
Hmm. I only looked at one claim, the biggest tax cut. Kessler translates the cut to a percentage of GDP. A good measure for some purposes. But dollars are a legitimate measure too. Is trump's claim true of dollars? Then it is not a lie. Period.
I dismiss Kessler.
With Corker out of the way and Blackburn and Hawley in place there should be more movement
The Washington Post and other similarly minded media outlets have a very difficult time understanding the difference between actual facts and difference of opinion
Most of the "news" is gross speculation. Something happens (fact) and the media decides what that happening means (opinion). If you disagree with their interpretation, then you are accused of denying facts.
Someone that they agree with makes a statement of opinion, then their opinion becomes "fact". When you don't agree with the statement or refuse to that that statement as being an actual fact.....again you are a denier of "facts".
It used to be that The News was the reporting of events.
Now "The News" is mostly opinion pushing and obvious manipulation to persuade people to accept the conclusions of a bunch of under-educated, biased, unqualified to do anything else, talking heads.
If opinion is fact, then my statements are always factual
"The Washington Post and other similarly minded media outlets have a very difficult time understanding the difference between actual facts and difference of opinion"
Nailed it. To many self described "fact checkers" are nakedly partisan, and as a result, nobody pays attention to the profession anymore.
To be honest, the same thing happened to the profession of journalists.
What is his example of a Trump lie?
Ann, you should be always be looking for and repeating at least one. WaPo is not worth the paywall to look at.
"He lies, he lies" blah bla bla is not so strong as "He lies about how many illegal votes there were, he lies about the illegal votes." I don't know if that's his claim; it might be, or something like it. Say it's one of Kessler's complaints. Trump says it's 4 million. Everybody knows it's more than 0. There is no proof that it is less than 4 million, only estimates, studies, probabilities; in Trump's case maybe exaggeration. Trump supporters don't think exaggeration is quite a lie; tho many wish Trump would be more accurate with less exaggeration.
These are the same kind of rocket science predictions that let the Climate Change alarmists produce 7 IPCC models in 2001 predicting ranges of temp for the next 100 years, all going up...
All wrong. Each and every model had a lower range prediction, and all were higher than what has actually been observed. There's a huge difference between an increase of 3 degrees in 100 years, and in 300 years.
The point is, "Lie" doesn't correctly apply to different estimate, not even about a past where it is not clear what really happened, especially if there was illegal fraud that has not been proven but is suspected.
Fake News bozos that complain about "Trump lies" without specifying some of them are pretty pathetic, especially in their delusion that what they say is important; they exaggerate their own significance.
Finally, nothing Trump has said has been as significant as Obama's Big Lie on Obamacare - you can keep your doctor. So pounding on insignificant Trump words without similar complaints about Obama's Big Costly Lie (about $2000 per year for many?) reminds many normal folk that the Dem media is not looking for the truth to help normal people.
Most politicians quickly drop a Four-Pinocchio claim, either out of a duty to be accurate or concern that spreading false information could be politically damaging.
What really pisses Kessler off is the power he feels over "most politicians" is not there with Trump.
Hadn't read all comments, I see that Ken talked about one.
" I only looked at one claim, the biggest tax cut. Kessler translates the cut to a percentage of GDP."
Absolute size in USD. Size as a % of GDP. Trump says "biggest". $100 million is "bigger" than $90 million, even if $100 million is 1% of a much bigger economy than $90 million is at 2% of a smaller economy.
This is an excellent example of how the Fake News takes what Trump actually says, then re-interprets it / makes different definitions of "what he means" (what they say he means), and then calls this false. This happens so often, it's so predictable, it's ... bottomless.
Dem Derangement Syndrome.
It's not going to stop in 6 years with a new Rep President, either.
Ship WaPo to Paris and have the protesters burn it to the ground.
Democracy Dies in Darkness!
Did Ocasio-what's-her-name take down the 4 Pinocchio tweet that we could pay for universal health care from the money the Defense Dept can't find? Just curious.
"Should "bottomless" be nose related?"
It's noses all the way down.
Blogger Ken B said..."Hmm. I only looked at one claim, the biggest tax cut. Kessler translates the cut to a percentage of GDP. A good measure for some purposes. But dollars are a legitimate measure too. Is trump's claim true of dollars? Then it is not a lie. Period.
I dismiss Kessler."
Every politician does this. Every damn one. Did Kessler give them all Pinocchios?
It's often that Trump is approximately right while the Left media is precisely wrong.
But the question is always whether it is Trump who is lying, or is it Kessler?
Fact Checker
by Glenn Kessler,
The Washington Post
Another Trump tweet has sparked a firestorm on social media and this time he has outraged first responders across the country. On Friday President Trump made the startling, unsubstantiated claim via his famously unfiltered twitter account that "fire trucks are red."
As always, we go to the experts.
Dr Kevin Schmedricksonson has spent a life time researching the conveyances of emergency personnel and recently completed a largest of it's kind study of fire truck paint schemes around the world. We asked him what he thinks of President Trump's jaw-dropping over-generalization.
Dr Schmendricksonson scoffed at Trump's posing as an authority on the subject, saying, "Well Glenn, we all know the President is far from a reliable source on any subject, but when he strays into my field, it gets my dander up. I'll keep it short and to the point in the interest of curbing my tongue which, I'm told can be quite acerbic, especially when an uneducated layman, for crass, political reasons, pretends to speak for science and as a result leaves the public even dumber than before.
"What I'd like your readers to come a way with is my absolute assurance that I have seen fire trucks here and abroad, wearing livery as varied as yellow, white orange, blue and even violet, which any school child knows, but Trump apparently does not, is at the opposite end of the color spectrum from red.
"A word to the wise and to President Trump, leave the sweeping generalizations to the experts."
So with sincere Thanks to Dr Schmendricksonson for taking the time to help set us all straight, the Washington Post gives President Trump four Pinochios for his claim that firetrucks are red.
Did Kessler ever "fact-check" "if you like your doctor, you can keep your doctor"? To my knowledge, Obama has never acknowledged it as false.
Only a few weeks ago was the latest attempt by Obama to take credit for Trump's successful economy. Now that the Democrats have taken over the House and the market has tanked in response; expect the press to pull a Comey and not recall Obama ever making such claims.
Self-proclaimed "Arbiters of Truth" are almost always liars. Indeed, I can't think of a single counter-example.
The "fact checkers" should be flattered.
This feels like whining that Trump does not care about Glenn's opinion. I can sympathize. It happens to me when I see someone is wrong on the Internet! Sadly, they don't pay me to do that.
OK, "Bottomless Pinochio" for repeated false claims by Trump.
"Bottom Pinochio" for journalists with their nose(s) up somebody's ass.
If you like your bottomless Pinocchio, you can keep your bottomless Pinocchio. Period.
Did Kessler ever "fact-check" "if you like your doctor, you can keep your doctor"? To my knowledge, Obama has never acknowledged it as false.
Instead of acknowledging it was a false statement, he said he never really said it quite like that: ""What we said was, you can keep (your plan) if it hasn’t changed since the law passed."
Politifact did a very good job showing that was a lie, and gave it a Pants on Fire rating.
I'm guessing--from the fact that Kessler works for WaPo, a Hive organ--that he is a "liberal:" i.e., a tax-happy, coercion-addicted, power-trippinmg government humper and State fellator. Yeah, that's the kind of guy you want as a fact-checker: someone whose basic socioeconomic policy is legalized looting, and who comes from the tradition of "No truth but socialist truth." Who WOULDN'T trust such a person?
Obama said, over and over, that Republicans caused the Financial crash of 2008. He said they drove the car over the cliff. Over and over he said it, but nobody bothered to call him a liar and nobody bothered to ask him how, precisely, they caused it.
But that was the kind of political lie the press is used to.
@Lydia - Thanks! That's great reference; I bookmarked it.
That (repeated) lie has pissed me off to no end.
He said they drove the car over the cliff.
Correction: Obama said they drove the car into the ditch. Paul Ryan threw granny off the cliff.
What we said was, you can keep (your plan) if it hasn’t changed since the law passed.
All the plans changed after the law passed. Our office had the same plan for years and once Obamacare was ramping up we got a notice our plan was going to be cancelled and would be replaced by...the exact same plan. Of course now that it wasn't our 'old' plan we couldn't keep it. It was an Obamacare scam, and still a Pants on Fire lie.
Long ago, when "fact checking" first came on the scene, I thought it sounded like a good idea. Politicians aren't known for their honesty, after all. It might have worked out if it had been limited to checking "facts". You know, the federal budget deficit in the last fiscal year was $______________. No, it was $___________. But the press decided they wanted to become the arbiters of "truth", not facts.
Now what I hear all the time on the "news" is: Trump said X "without evidence". It's a tweet for crying out loud! How much evidence do you expect? But he's the f-cking President of the United States. He might know something you don't. Would the MSM have reported the same thing without the "without" if it had been said by Obama or (either) Clinton?
The damn shame is that the MSM has forfeited any claim to objectivity. Do they really think they'll get it back when Trump is no longer president? Objectivity is like viginity: Once you've lost it, you can't get it back.
Pravda and Izvestia in their heyday were far more honest and legitimate than the NYT and WaPo are today. They were out loud and proud of being party propaganda outlets unlike the DNC and NYT.
rehajm said...
He said they drove the car over the cliff.
Correction: Obama said they drove the car into the ditch. Paul Ryan threw granny off the cliff.
hahahhaha! Thank you for the correction!
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