The American was identified as 27-year-old John Allen Chau, who sources said was a Christian missionary who wanted to convert the Sentinelese tribe that inhabits the island where he was killed.... The Sentinelese is a sensitive tribe living in that area for 60,000 years....There have been 7 arrests for murder, but those arrested are not Sentinelese, but "local fishermen who allegedly helped Chau reach the North Sentinel Island." It's interesting from a legal standpoint that the fishermen can be accused of murder for getting the victim close to the people whose direct action, killing him, is not considered murder. Or perhaps it is murder but: 1. The Sentinelese are immune from prosecution, 2. It would violate due process to prosecute them, or 3. There's no legal way to approach them to arrest them.
"[Chau] was attacked by arrows but he continued walking," news agency AFP reported, quoting sources. Local fishermen also saw the Sentinelese tying Chu's body to a rope and dragged it along the ground.... The North Sentinel Island, where Chau's body is still lying, is home to the Sentinelese, an indigenous tribe that furiously rejects outside contact. The Indian law protects the Sentinelese people, whose number is estimated to be under 50....
They cannot be prosecuted and any contact with them or entry into areas inhabited by them is illegal....
This makes me think of the case of Chief Oshkosh of the Menominees and a movie that made a big impact on me when I was young, "Dingaka" (blogged here).
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91 comments:
So, based simply on what is reported here, I think: 1) another martyr in heaven; 2) wonder how these folks survive without outside contact? 3) why aren't they subject to the law? 4) does India consider them wild animals?
We're not so different.
Hillary actively colludes with Russia to take down Trump. Only Trump can be prosecuted for collusion with Russia.
Obama uses the DOJ and IRS to attack political enemies. Trump does not do these things, but only he is condemned or targeted for prosecution for doing these things.
If an autopsy reveals that the martyr was carrying viruses that would be fatal to the isolated tribe, can they plead self-defense?
This law was kind of an ongoing joke when I worked in India. "Tours to Nicobar leaves in 20 minutes!"
Sorta like "Donner Party Dinner Theater" back when people knew who they were.
-XC
leave them alone.
Is there a law against visiting (or helping people to visit) the islands?
Under US law, you can be charged with murder if a death occurs as a result of your illegal act. For example - two men break into a house, and the homeowner shoots and kills one of them. The surviving burglar can be charged in his compatriot's death.
Get back to nature on North Sentinel Island and you might find more meaning than you were planning on.
"are not Sentinelese, but 'local fishermen who allegedly helped Chau reach the North Sentinel Island'"
Isn't that the felony murder rule?
Jeopardy champ Ken Jennings had a good podcast from earlier this year on the topic of the Sentinelese:
https://www.omnibusproject.com/podcasts/the-sentinelese-entry-1134-lv2024.htm
If the man knew that he was likely to be attacked, how can the fishermen be blamed? If they can, how can anyone provide passage to dangerous places?
Don't worry fans. Schlump will personally round them up at the border. Their sticks and stones are no match for Schlump's golf clubs, and golf balls even with his bad swing. Stopping the "caravan" is primordial. Black people stink, and eat smelly soul food such as chitlins. In addition, they are not from Norway.
Instead of murder, I think it should be "assisted suicide".
What did he (the dead guy) think was going to happen?
A "sensitive" tribe, eh? Not quite sure what load that adjective is meant to be carrying.
Anyway, the North Sentinelese are a fascinating little group. Apparently one of the last "uncontacted" groups on earth, and determined to stay that way.
Yes, humanity’s natural state is fear of the outsider. I thought we were supposed to honor and emulate the noble savage?
JSM
Life is risky. Perhaps more risky for missionaries that go uninvited into a culture they don't understand. Free will is a wonderful, unforgiving, blessing.
Steve Sailer: The Ultimate Anti-Globalists: The North Sentinelese
Quicker and cheaper than building a wall.
Well, they never said that spreading the gospel would be easy.
Sad, but I couldn’t help thinking the headline was the lead in to one of several old jokes...
Guys caught by cannibals ...
Who knows the punchlines?
“Death ... by punji !!”
“Fuck your canoe!!!”
I suppose if he'd been squashed in an accident protesting in Gaza he'd be considered an actual martyr.
3) why aren't they subject to the law?
Since it's pretty obvious that they've never given their consent to be governed by any outsiders, what you're actually asking is, "Why hasn't India conquered the island and imposed its will on the natives?"
India might nominally claim the island, but in practice they clearly don't exercise actual sovereignty over it. It is, accordingly, an independent state under its own government; even the three-nautical-mile exclusion zone around the island that Indian law prescribes matches the pre-UNCLOS definition of territorial waters in customary international law.
Are the owners of an airline charged with murder when a plane crashes, killing all or even anyone, due to an engine ingesting a flock of geese? They must have known that allowing a plane to take off, runs the risk of it crashing and killing everyone on board.
The Sentinelese should be brought to justice just like the Saudi King.
"Quicker and cheaper than building a wall."
But not scalable. Eventually you run out beach to dig graves in.
Well at least he got the Gospel preached to them. The greatest Hebrew Prophet said that preaching the Gospel to ALL the world as a witness to ALL the nations was the condition precedent to His return... "And then the end shall come." said Jesus in Matthew 24:14.
Trumpit: "Black people stink, and eat smelly soul food such as chitlins. In addition, they are not from Norway."
There are approximately 100,000 black norwegian citizens and they do not eat chitlins. They eat whale blubber and lutefisk like all the other norwegians.
And trust me, that whale blubber is not exactly a "treat" in my book.
Keep out Whale blubber-ers!!
The Paris tribe killed Jim Morrison. The LA tribe killed Janis Joplin, The London tribe killed Jimi Hendrix.
John Chau wanted desperately to be a member of the 27 Club. This wasn't murder, it was a suicide.
If only there was a GoFundMe to send Trumpit to North Sentinel, to preach them the gospel of Diversity and Open Borders. He could show them the error of their ways, or die trying.
In Sydney when I lived there, they sold "Donner kabobs." I always wondered if they were made with 'long pork.'
One of Rockefeller's kids was eaten by cannibals, among the few on earth to actually eat the rich.
Sounds like India is handling these folks similarly to how Star Trek's federation handled Talos IV: tell everyone to STAY AWAY, enforced by law, because of perceived danger.
I'm curious how they came to the conclusion: was it just the danger or also the desire to leave these folks alone? It's not like the Amazon where there is (or was) serious debate about contacting the last few isolated tribes.
Is Trumpit coherent? He sounds like PPPT to me, but maybe I'm not 'woke' enough
The closest analogue for prosecution that justifies order of responsibility and immunity is the Western concept of Pro-Choice. The fisherman are classified as Gosnell et al. type actors. The second closet analogue is excessive immigration (i.e. exceeding the rate of assimilation and integration), including illegal immigration (i.e. unsolicited and unapproved), or indoctrination into practices and philosophies that are alien to the native culture. Still, aborting a human life should not be the first or even second Choice. This is not pro-native, but rather anti-immigrant, or anti-native, respectively, or perhaps a warlock trial motivated by diversity (i.e. color judgment).
A sad story. His actions remind me of people who decide to hike along the border between South and North Korea, or the remote regions of Afghanistan. They are strongly committed to the concept that they can interact peacefully with other human beings in those places. They do seem truly surprised when they are captured and used as hostages.
The reasoning behind the Prime Directive:
Generally speaking, genocide does not necessarily mean the immediate destruction of a nation, except when accomplished by mass killings of all members of a nation. It is intended rather to signify a coordinated plan of different actions aimed at the destruction of essential foundations of the life of national groups, with the aim of annihilating the groups themselves. [Lemkin]
-- etymonline.com
China is following the latter, i.e. immigration reform, alien philosophy, approach to claim Tibet. A similar phenomenon is happening in other parts of the world, but with less obvious collateral damage.
The introduction of alien concepts, practices, and philosophies should be considered carefully. While some may invite it, others may be more apprehensive. Forcing it will create the modern divisions of minorities, diversity, and progressive dysfunction complicating reconciliation.
They felt threatened, he continued to advance while they told him to stop or turn around. They were on their property.
Sounds like stand your ground laws would cover it, no?
Arriving with a box of Zippos might've forestalled the inevitable.
Blogger Robert Cook said...
Quicker and cheaper than building a wall.
11/21/18, 10:38 AM
Glad you approve, Bob. That was the last obstacle, your concern. Now ICE and militia groups can patrol the border killing all who attempt entry. That should just about do it! Maybe land mines is easier.
As for scalability...industrial shredders. Fertilizer. Non food crops of course.
Blogger Robert Cook said...
Quicker and cheaper than building a wall.
11/21/18, 10:38 AM
Glad you approve, Bob. That was the last obstacle, your concern. Now ICE and militia groups can patrol the border killing all who attempt entry. That should just about do it! Maybe land mines is easier.
As for scalability...industrial shredders. Fertilizer. Non food crops of course.
India may assert sovereignty over the islands but in practice they remain unconquered and free (if only because the Indian government was persuaded not to turn the islands into a plantation a couple decades ago). They have entered into no treaties that would give India the right to prosecute them for killing an invader.
Five words for that. Un ex pec ted ly.
From what (admittedly little) I know about the Sentinelese, he picked the way wrong neighborhood.
The missionary died trying to spread his faith.
I believe God welcomed him to heaven.
India decided to leave this tribe alone.
Sounds like that was a wise decision.
The fisherman will never likely help another person get to the island.
Whether the fisherman should be charged with murder is something I don't care about.
I am not a Lefty Sociologist, and my amount of 'white guilt' left with Obama.
That being said: I go with the legal principles of 'finders keepers', 'mind your own business', and 'keep off my lawn', far more legal insight than offered in the Kavanaugh embroglio.
It was self defense and 'national sovereignty'.
Even though he was an American. Even though he was a Christian. He got to be a martyr. Whee!
Grass hut living barbarians tend toward extreme views. He knew that and did it anyway.
It wasn't murder, it was suicide by proxy.
Blogger Paco Wové said...
Apparently one of the last "uncontacted" groups on earth, and determined to stay that way.
Some people just want to be left alone. There are too many other people who just can’t seem to accept that.
Quicker and cheaper than building a wall
Yup. A bunch of stakes with heads on them tends to work for most sensible folks.
How do you like the Chau?
I'd have thought a firm "No, thank you" would have sufficed.
Given the millions of heathens in the USA, do you really need to go to literally, the "ends of the earth"?
Of course, I mean "Literally" in the non-literal sense.
You show up unannounced and some people fill you full of arrows while others simply don't answer the doorbell.
However, we don't actually know what would happen if a missionary wandered into Althouse's back yard.
He'd run into Meade raking up the last of the autumn leaves.
I'm actually rather suspicious of the whole idea of "not contacted" thing. Really? A bunch of guys with bows and arrows have kept millions of people with guns away? How does anyone know if they've been there "for 55,000 years" if no one's ever gone there to do archaeology? Or even an ethnography?
Doesn't make much sense to me.
I would guess that there's nary a copy of either The Watchtower or Awake! to be found among the Sentinelese.
PETA doesn't go to biker bars.
American Feminists don't go to Islamistan to proselytize.
Vegans avoid Steakhouses in Texas.
But Christian missionaries go to China, Russia, Islam and, apparently, places where you get shot up with arrows.
One of these things is not like the others. That difference is 'courage'.
Hoooorah..... Etienne started drinking again
Not possible to tell from the story, but it seems likely that the islanders attempted to warn Chau off by deliberately missing. Otherwise they'd only need an arrow or two to kill him.
I admire his guts. Didn't work out, but he didn't know it wouldn't until he tried. He's hardly the first Christian to suffer this sort of fate. There have been tribes that killed missionaries and then warmed to them. Hope that happens here.
Q Do uncontacted peoples get a pass on having to nod politely at international human rights?
Forget the strident anti-immigration policy or evident trade protectionism: are Andamanians allowed to practice slavery onto others in their declared sovereignty, without any tsk tsk of shame? Child labour? Discriminatory Cake baking?
If they get a pass, does that mean "uncontacted" is the trump cards of all trump cards? Can someone decide they want to be uncontacted?
There have been tribes that killed missionaries and then warmed to them.
Christianity offers a reconcilable, even sound foundation for a better life, throughout life. Once they get past their diversity-motivated angst, they will evaluate the principles, and principals, on merit.
"Didn't work out, but he didn't know it wouldn't until he tried."
If he'd done any research at all, he would have had a pretty good idea.
"Hope that happens here."
I will be honest; as a non-Christian, I hope it doesn't.
"If he'd done any research at all, he would have had a pretty good idea."
He probably did have a pretty good idea. Christians have always gone into places where death was extremely likely.
So, he was a Christian Darwinist
@Anthony:I'm actually rather suspicious of the whole idea of "not contacted" thing. Really? A bunch of guys with bows and arrows have kept millions of people with guns away?
Insufficient ROI. Too isolated and nothing anyone wants. One British officer landed in 1880 and kidnapped 6 people who he took to Port Blair. Two of them died in short order, the others he apparently returned. They're not altogether completely uncontacted, but India gave up trying to meddle with them 20 years ago.
They have distant relatives on the other islands, some of whom have been contacted,with the usual results.
There have been tribes that killed [Christian] missionaries and then warmed to them
The alternatives are worse. We have a State-established religion (Twilight Amendment), Pro-Choice, that is in principle selective, opportunistic, and politically congruent.
Darwin Award nominee. Leave the poor people alone on their little island. It's illegal to contact them for a reason: They have no resistance to diseases that the civilized world would bring to them, and the same result would happen as happened to the American Indians when the Europeans came. It was the height of arrogance for this ill-advised missionary to try to visit them.
One one hand, I admire Chau for doing the Lord's work.
OTOH, given the current state of the Catholic Church or Protestantism, who can blame the islanders for putting an arrow in him?
Who'd want to be part of child molesting, open borders, globalist shit show that is Christendom?
Can anyone point to a current well-known Christian leader that isn't an elitist clown, an embarrassment, or a traitor?
The Church of England and Episcopalian Church don't even require their leaders to believe in Jesus Christ or God. However, any disbelief in feminism is grounds for excommunication.
I guess he didn't get the chance to inform them that all their generations were just killing time before he arrived.
According to some internet story there are 1.5 million "witches" in the USA.
Nancy Reagan believed in astrology but not in Jesus Christ. Which may account for Patti Davis and her dopey son, RR Jnr.
Anyway if I was a tribal chieftain, I would have told Chau to send me a Rabbi.
After all, as David Limbaugh said, the Jews are "The elders in Christ".
Why settle for 2nd raters?
So that is the islanders way of dealing with illegal aliens!!! Interesting. Spear them to death! Guess that is easier than deporting them.
Gran'ma says she hopes that when I git to be a man,
I'll be a missionarer like her oldest brother, Dan,
As was et up by the cannibuls that lives in Ceylon's Isle,
Where every prospeck pleases, an' only man is vile!
But gran'ma she has never been to see a Wild West show,
Nor read the Life of Daniel Boone, or else I guess she'd know
That Buff'lo Bill an' cow-boys is good enough for me!
Excep' jest 'fore Christmas, when I'm good as I kin be!
…
Excerpt from "Jest 'Fore Christmas" by Eugene Field
There is nothing new under the sun.
The linked article says the population of the island is less than 50. How can a population that small survive? Would be interesting to study the effects of inbreeding, if they would allow it.
“I'm actually rather suspicious of the whole idea of "not contacted" thing.”
I’ve found it tends to be a little overstated when you do a little research into these peoples. In some cases it means they don’t have access to a convenience store. In some cases that’s just barely an exaggeration.
"Can anyone point to a current well-known Christian leader that isn't an elitist clown, an embarrassment, or a traitor?"
Yes, lots. Tim Keller, William Lane Craig, Hugh Ross, Peter Kreeft, and many more.
If he chose to do what he did, there's no way he didn't read Through Gates of Splendor. He knew exactly what he was getting into.
If these people were truly "uncontaminated" it might be that they remain outside original sin. Not eating of the loin of knowledge and such which we all know is a metaphor for conversion from hunter-gatherer to agricultural-civilization. Therefore, this idiot is actually Lucifer who was thankfully thwarted from his quest to destroy these peoples by condemning them to infernal damnation.
Apologies to those that have already hinted at this, but it seems that people of a certain culture are resistant to intruders of a different culture. I would have never guessed that. Hey, all of you Progressive Intellectuals, you might want to take some notes here.
A bunch of guys with bows and arrows have kept millions of people with guns away?
The people with guns have made landings pretty often. The natives start by shooting arrows, and if the people with guns persist, they go and hide in the jungle. The handful of natives found in an otherwise hastily-abandoned village didn't speak any known language, and didn't learn any others before dying/being returned.
It would be possible to set up permanent occupation and force interaction, but what would be the goal?
The linked article says the population of the island is less than 50.
While the official 2011 Indian government estimate of the population was 40, some population estimates are as high as 400. Nobody actually knows because nobody's ever actually enumerated them.
"Grizzly Man."
So if we shot at the Caravan with arrows, they'll leave us alone and go back to Honduras?
Kinda like Philly. Enter at your own risk.
Since Ann (and many of her commenters) are so sadly and notoriously science-averse, I'll let you all in on a little fun fact:
Letting white men etc. in to mingle with these uncontacted peoples typically results in death rates of 90% due to the exposure of their naive immune systems to strange diseases like influenza.
Given that, they are perfectly justified in killing whoever keeps breaching their territory, and have done it any time anyone has tried. The Indian government knows it is futile to expect otherwise and rightly absolves itself of any responsibility for prosecuting these natives.
How many deadly diseases do you think foreign entrants to the U.S. have a "right" to force on us?
Try to put some relevant facts and perspective in the next re-post, if it's not too much to ask.
The Indian government's (and presumably, its people's) attitude toward this predicament probably reflects the same mindset that has allowed the subcontinent to preserve populations of elephants, tigers, lions and other majestic creatures that have been killed off elsewhere.
They are smart enough to leave well enough alone, and remain a much richer and more colorful place for it than almost anywhere else in the world.
More power to them.
This puts me in mind of Operation Auca. The tribe that killed Jim Elliot and his fellow missionaries eventually came to Christ.
https://www.survivalinternational.org/tribes/sentinelese
The Baptist’s have missionaries trained to go into parts of inner New Guinea where they have no written language yet. The first year is spent learning their language so the scriptures can be translated and teaching them to read it. That takes faith...plus lots of donations to support it.
Was he a Frier?
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