Althouse: "A Wisconsin legislator who is also a firefighter ripped the state Department of Natural Resources for persuading his department to rescue a deer stranded on a frozen lake...."

November 23, 2018

"A Wisconsin legislator who is also a firefighter ripped the state Department of Natural Resources for persuading his department to rescue a deer stranded on a frozen lake...."

"Republican Rep. Adam Jarchow... said he would fire the [DNR] warden tomorrow if he could for 'being complicit in putting firefighters at risk, over a stupid deer.'... 'This is a complete embarrassment and a joke,' tweeted Jarchow.... The DNR posted a glowing statement about the incident on its website Tuesday. The release praised Warden Jesse Ashton for organizing a team of wardens and local firefighters to rescue the deer, saying, 'Those little hooves are no match for slick surfaces!... Teamwork strikes again!'"

From "Lawmaker rips DNR for getting firefighters to rescue 'stupid deer' stranded on frozen lake" (Wisconsin State Journal).

The deer had wandered 500 yards out onto the frozen lake and ought to have been left to its own devices, I suspect, but the DNR may be worried about the deer-loving citizens who caused the department so much angst a few years ago in the heart-rending Giggles the fawn incident.

100 comments:

rhhardin said...: As the Princeton computer center said, trying to protect their IBM 7090 in the early 60s when it started flooding and the fire department replied that they don't do floods only fires, "How big a fire do you need?"

Obviously they should have started a fire.; 11/23/18, 8:12 AM
tim maguire said...: This being Wisconsin, I'm assuming there are many people who would say that we risk firefighters to save people, why not risk firefighters to save deer? Isn't a deer's life just as valuable?; 11/23/18, 8:13 AM
tcrosse said...: They can shoot it later.; 11/23/18, 8:14 AM
tim maguire said...: That deer has a mother who loves it.; 11/23/18, 8:14 AM
Browndog said...: I can see both sides of the issue. However, the natural instinct to come to the aid of an animal in distress is quite powerful.

Further, fire departments tend to view these animal rescues as training sessions, and good public relations, which is necessary to get all the millage increases passed by voters.

I think this legislator is out of line.; 11/23/18, 8:20 AM
Darrell said...: Quite a change from when the Wisc. DNR shot to death newborn baby deer Giggles at the Catholic animal rescue shelter by using the WDNR SWAT team.; 11/23/18, 8:21 AM
AllenS said...: It's all fun and games, until a firefighter (or two) drowns, or dies of hypothermia.; 11/23/18, 8:26 AM
AllenS said...: There's a very good possibility that some day that deer will be stuck in someone's front grill, or worse yet, takes out someone on a motorcycle.; 11/23/18, 8:28 AM
Mark said...: The deer's little hooves were match enough for slick surfaces to get out so far out onto the lake.

Was there a concern that the deer might fall through the ice? Firefighters can fall through the ice too.; 11/23/18, 8:30 AM
Darrell said...: It's all fun and games, until a firefighter (or two) drowns, or dies of hypothermia.

Because they don't use drones with robotic arms like the rest of us do.; 11/23/18, 8:31 AM
BUMBLE BEE said...: God made plenty of deer. A firefighter represents a large investment in training and employment. He is a human and has family. Distinctions lost on so many.; 11/23/18, 8:34 AM
rehajm said...: Good practice?; 11/23/18, 8:40 AM
Dust Bunny Queen said...: This is the problem when people begin to believe that nature is like a Disneyland animated movie. While it is a good thing to save the life of an animal, IF you can, it is more than ridiculous to put people into extreme danger to do so.

The key wording is IF you can save WITHOUT killing the humans.

Animals die all the time in nature. You hardly ever, personally, see that happen, but it occurs anyway. After they save the deer, it will probably get hit by a car, break a leg and die a slow death by infection, starvation.... or killed by a predator and provide dinner for another animal.

Why waste human lives, resources on something that is inevitable?; 11/23/18, 8:41 AM
Temujin said...: You should change your tags from 'deer, survival, to deer survival. Apparently it's a recurring theme in Wisconsin, Land of Badgers and Deer.; 11/23/18, 8:42 AM
tcrosse said...: They still hunt deer in Wisconsin, right?; 11/23/18, 8:43 AM
Narayanan said...: Set up Dunking Booth with this dude and sell tickets come spring thaw.; 11/23/18, 8:47 AM
Not an oldster. said...: Oh Allen. Do you really think anybody forced the firefighters to go out there? If they were in any danger... Mission aborted. Likely they were glad to get put of the firehouse and do something. Truth be told, firefighters, like soldiers have plenty of down time. Good practice for ice rescue and they are all smiling in the photo. PS. Jarchow ran for office and lost to a Dem woman candidate. Bitter man will be out a job soon.; 11/23/18, 8:48 AM
Not an oldster. said...: DBQ Firefighters were in no danger. With proper tools, humans can walk on ice. Nothing too scary here, really.; 11/23/18, 8:51 AM
Diogenes of Sinope said...: It is not worth risking the life of one fire fighter to save a deer.; 11/23/18, 8:52 AM
Earnest Prole said...: The Great Circle of Life ain’t quite so lovely when you see it up close for real.; 11/23/18, 8:53 AM
Darrell said...: There was a mention of something like this on some TV show last week. A herd of elk were crossing a frozen lake in early Spring in Wyoming or some place, and 6 or 8 went into the drink and couldn't get out. Ranchers and workers on their morning commute spotted this and the people stopped their car and cut a channel back to the shore for the elk to escape through using axes and a chain saw. They helped pull the elk up and then got out of the way quickly, because they're not stupid. None of the rescuers was hurt. The couple of forest rangers and county deputies were scratching their asses and trying to find a manual while this went on. Luckily, they didn't arrest or shoot anyone.; 11/23/18, 8:55 AM
Anne in Rockwall, TX said...: All my firefighter friends say that cats in trees and wildlife on icy ponds are used for training. If an emergency occurs that they need to address, they go. But if they are not interrupted, they get a chance to train in a real situation with no humans in danger, it's worth the time and effort.

One friend told me that they found out a piece of equipment was faulty as all get-out when they needed to get a raccoon out of an attic. If used in a real emergency, someone would have been badly hurt.; 11/23/18, 8:55 AM
Not an oldster. said...: Yes, good practice rejahm. A real life training session with no human life in the water, endangered. If the deer died so be it. But it was a success. Good work and the politician should have acknowledged this.; 11/23/18, 8:55 AM
Browndog said...: Why waste human lives, resources on something that is inevitable?

If firefighter's lives were "wasted" rescuing deer there would be no deer rescues. Fire departments have these things called "proper equipment" to conduct a rescue without jeopardizing the safety of the rescuers.; 11/23/18, 8:56 AM
Mark said...: Apple River Fire Chief Alec Adams told The Associated Press by phone Wednesday that the Polk County Sheriff’s Department contacted him Sunday asking whether his department could save the deer. He told the department he didn’t want to put firefighters at risk for a deer, adding that his department doesn’t have a boat and the deer was 500 yards out on the lake.; 11/23/18, 8:58 AM
Not an oldster. said...: Some of you overestimate the danger of life outdoors. Sad. You should get out there more and learn to assess real risks, perhaps. ?; 11/23/18, 9:00 AM
Not an oldster. said...: How big is the Apple River fire department, do you think, compared to county first responders? Do your research and understand why one would welcome the opportunity another smaller department would reject.; 11/23/18, 9:04 AM
Rusty said...: Deer have been luring humans out on thin ice for centuries just to watch the humans fall in and freeze or drown. The firefighters fell for it. Good thing deer can't judge ice thickness.
Stupid humans.
Bambi laughs; 11/23/18, 9:04 AM
Rusty said...: Judging from what you wrote above, you don't know shit.; 11/23/18, 9:05 AM
Ann Althouse said...: "One friend told me that they found out a piece of equipment was faulty as all get-out when they needed to get a raccoon out of an attic. If used in a real emergency, someone would have been badly hurt."

Firefighters come over to help you when an animal gets into your house? I think here in Madison if you try to get government employees to rid your house of vermin, you'll be told to hire some private animal control person. Do you want your tax money used to help people who have neglected home maintenance to the point where raccoons are getting in?! They don't do that in Madison, and our local taxes are really high. We pay $17,000+ a year in property taxes. This makes no sense to me, helping people with raccoons. If a bear or mountain lion gets in your house, ok. What's next, calling the fire department when you have a mouse?

And by the way, there are so many animals that suffer in the wild. When I was about 20 years old, one time I called the authorities because I saw a bird on the sidewalk that seemed to be having a seizure of some kind.; 11/23/18, 9:05 AM
tim maguire said...: Annie C said...
All my firefighter friends say that cats in trees...

Wait a minute! Firefighters actually rescue cats from trees?!? I thought that was a comic strip joke.; 11/23/18, 9:06 AM
Mark said...: Why do those who have proven themselves an ass think that they have to prove it over and over and over and over and over again?; 11/23/18, 9:10 AM
walter said...: Still a few days left in gun season...; 11/23/18, 9:10 AM
Ann Althouse said...: Let's assume it can be a good training exercise. Who decides which exercises to undertake? I think the local fire department should decide. When it declined, that should have been the end of it, if the policy was to take advantage of training exercises. But the DNR seems to have pushed for the rescue and the reasons don't look like training but something more like PR informed by the Giggles fiasco.; 11/23/18, 9:11 AM
Ann Althouse said...: "Do fire departments actually rescue cats from trees?" (The Straight Dope):

"I found two cat rescue attempts where the firefighters were accidentally electrocuted by power lines. There’s also the expense — for example, the fire department in Kansas City, Kansas, calculated it spent $57.26 on gas responding to 14 cat-in-tree calls in one year. Possibly because of such concerns, or perhaps because they just don’t like cats, many fire departments won’t perform cat rescues, claiming the animal will get down on its own. A common refrain is: “When was the last time you saw a cat skeleton in a tree?” Other fire departments are willing to give it a go. I found news accounts of cat rescues in 34 states (some of which admittedly involved venues other than trees). The most impressive involved a tabby brought down safely from 100 feet up an evergreen tree in Hayward, California. However, it would be unwise to assume that the fire department is going to use advanced cat-rescue techniques. Firefighters in Okinawa, Japan, earlier this year decided the best way to deal with a feline up a 60-foot tree was to grab a chain saw and lop off the section the cat was clinging to. When a Tennessee woman’s cat was stuck in a pine tree, firefighters gave her two options: they could blast it out with a hose or shake the tree until the cat fell out. When asked how option B was any different from the cat’s just falling out on its own, one firefighter answered, “Neither is real different, ma’am. Just quicker.”... . Cats do in fact get trapped in trees, and if you ask the fire department to do something about it, well, “rescue” might not be the best description of the ensuing operation. But there’s a good chance they’ll show up."; 11/23/18, 9:14 AM
Not an oldster. said...: Madison is paying a lot in taxes for services other places do no have or need. Like bike paths through wilderness. Taxes are local. Just because you are content to pay high taxes for very little does not mean you understand the needs in other places. God bless America. No Madison tX dollars were used here.Quit yet bitchin.; 11/23/18, 9:16 AM
Not an oldster. said...: Lol at the straight dope knowledge DC he. Local, local, local.; 11/23/18, 9:18 AM
LYNNDH said...: "We pay $17,000+ a year in property taxes. This makes no sense to me,' Now THAT makes no sense to me. And with the Dems back in the Governors mansion, hold on to your wallets.

As for the deer rescue, one of the things that make people human is a capacity for compassion. Those here that are making the snarky comments should remember that.; 11/23/18, 9:19 AM
Rusty said...: Little known fact.
Deer hair is hollow. They float like fucking corks. It also insulates them from the cold.; 11/23/18, 9:19 AM
Not an oldster. said...: Apple River is not a municipality nor would it ever be the sole responding agency. This is s fake news story. No No one was forced to respond to a dangerous situation. Rest easy in Madison but the first responders here are better off for having done this in preparation for when it's a human in the water, every second counts, and there is no time to check with you all in Madison for approval to spend our tax dollars this way. You down there spend enough of our state taxes on sillier non productive things.; 11/23/18, 9:31 AM
AllenS said...: Apple River is a township in Polk County

Fire Department

I live in Alden Township, Polk County WI. We have never had a fire department, they've cleared the land and we are going to get one. Just up the road from me.; 11/23/18, 9:35 AM
Not an oldster. said...: If you called for help at twenty for a bird on the sidewalk instead of wringing it's neck to put it out of misery, you have no cr3dibility on this topic, ma'am. Are there even any blue collar men left in madison?; 11/23/18, 9:36 AM
Not an oldster. said...: Once they get a real fire department up and running, allen I bet they will welcome practice situations like this with proper staffing, tools and training. The county responds to fires and emergencies in your area now. Star prairie here, the part in St. Croix, not Polk. Fake news story
No resuers complaining they were endangered...; 11/23/18, 9:43 AM
William said...: Were the firefighters. Trump or Hillary voters? This important piece of information was left out. If the firefighters were Trump voters, it just goes to show their hypocrisy on the border issues. If they were Hillary voters, it shows how Hillary voters are the people who care. Surely a conscientious journalist could find an angle here to make Trump look bad.; 11/23/18, 9:45 AM
AllenS said...: The city of New Richmond, St Croix County has the fire department duties here in my part of Alden township Polk county. Star Prairie is my mailing address only. Which means that the Post Office located in Star Prairie delivers my mail.; 11/23/18, 9:46 AM
Anne in Rockwall, TX said...: Yep Rusty, it is hollow. That's why I use it to tie flies.

Also, most of my firefighter friends are with volunteer fire departments. They welcome the chance to go out.

If you get out of your cities, you will find a lot of volunteer fire departments. They get very little chance to practice and yes they do get cats out of trees and bats out of bedrooms and raccoons out of attics!

We just went last weekend to an casino night event to raise funds for a small-town volunteer fire department's new oxygen equipment. Lots of people support volunteer fire departments, not just taxes.; 11/23/18, 9:48 AM
Bruce Hayden said...: I got my partner kinda in trouble last fall when I told the local justice of the peace, firearms instructor, and former game warden that she fed the deer from the front porch. I told him that he could take it up with her, if I can get her into one of his handgun classes this coming spring. My view is that you don't feed mice and rats, so why are you wasting valuable food on vermin? But, then, I am the one who is out on the highway dodging them, while she is safely back home feeding the blasted things.; 11/23/18, 9:49 AM
Not an oldster. said...: Point is Allen, Apple River is not the department to make the final call as EUsome have suggested. How many deer did you harvest this year to protect motorists and car grilles, and if you have not filled you tags, why are you commenting here and not out hunting and protecting the public? ;-); 11/23/18, 9:58 AM
AllenS said...: The county does not have a fire department. 5 deer were harvest on my property this year.; 11/23/18, 10:06 AM
Dust Bunny Queen said...: DBQ Firefighters were in no danger. With proper tools, humans can walk on ice. Nothing too scary here, really.

OK Unknown. Since you can sense danger or not.... You do it

Walk, slide, crawl 500 yards (1500 feet) onto a frozen lake and try to bring a wild animal back with you over the 1500 feet. Do you understand how far that is, on a frozen lake? How thick is the ice? How deep is the lake? How cooperative is the deer likely to be? If one person falls through the ice, how many will die trying to save that person?

For a deer???? Just rats on taller legs.

He told the department he didn’t want to put firefighters at risk for a deer, adding that his department doesn’t have a boat and the deer was 500 yards out on the lake.

The fire department in this case, wisely decided to not try this stupid stunt, until they were coerced.

My husband is a former Volunteer in our Fire Dept. All we have are volunteers. They would have told the Fish and Game dept to stuff it if this were in our area.

Unknown must live in a fun fantasy world....Disneyland and she/he is a Disney Princess with lovable wild animals. Mommy deer, Daddy deer and Baby deer. /facepalm; 11/23/18, 10:12 AM
Dust Bunny Queen said...: As for the deer rescue, one of the things that make people human is a capacity for compassion.

AND the ability to do a cost benefit analysis to determine whether something is a stupid idea which is dangerous.

Deer vs Human lives.....weighing the cost to benefit. Human lives win.; 11/23/18, 10:16 AM
Birkel said...: Save the venison!; 11/23/18, 10:16 AM
Trumpit said...: I would outlaw guns and hunting in a heartbeat. I believe in animal rights, and in the humane treatment of livestock. There are far too many humans on this small planet. Sadly, human population is growing rapidly causing all sorts of problems. I waste a lot of time in heavy traffic.; 11/23/18, 10:18 AM
Not an oldster. said...: How many tags did you personally fill tho? Glad you don't have to rely on Apple River township responders if you fell in the ice and needed rescue, friend. One county, or both, would be called to respond. F ear not. Btw, successful corn silo rescue in st Croix recently. They tried but lost a farmer this weekend in Barron, after losing another farmer and his 15year old son in Barron earlier this year. Sadly, some rescues cannot be practiced except in real life situations. Men really do welcome these practice situations with no lives at risk. God bless the men who respond. We should be thanking and congratulating their preparation and not criticizing them for costing us too much...; 11/23/18, 10:21 AM
Not an oldster. said...: Again, both the deer and the humans lived here and only the deer was ever ,"in danger". Why the need to shit all over a good news story and spin it info Fake News? Are you all jealous of what these men accomplished working together?; 11/23/18, 10:26 AM
Not an oldster. said...: Lifeguards practice too. Easier to replicate drowning situations in an indoor pool though than one in riskier dituations. Responders on the scene and not politicians or professord are the best ones to determine risk assessment. Local control is a good thing.; 11/23/18, 10:34 AM
Not an oldster. said...: Lol DBQ. You are clueless about real life danger. Ask your husband.; 11/23/18, 10:37 AM
Not an oldster. said...: How many ice rescues has your volunteer husband performed going in cold, with no team preparation? No ice where you and your girls live, right?; 11/23/18, 10:40 AM
robother said...: Next step: DNR calls in the ambulance to resuscitate deer shot in hunting season. Good training. (Hope they get there before the hunter, er, "shooter" begins field dressing.); 11/23/18, 10:40 AM
chillblaine said...: GREAT HEADLINE GUYS like, donnie who, also, loved bowling; 11/23/18, 10:42 AM
John henry said...: Allen S,

I've been to New Richmond. Nice town.

You should be proud of having one of the bedt schools in the country there, WITC. (witc.edu)

Also a state of the art Bosch plant. Which helps make witc so great.

But I know nothing about gour fire department.

John Henry; 11/23/18, 10:45 AM
Not an oldster. said...: Lol at belly crawling 500 yards on ice thick enough to support vehicles. You do know trucks often can drive on ice right. And it only gets risky around open water. That is why we practice dear. TTY he fact the creature lived is secondary. Stick with the indoors child rearing please. Your societal expertise lies there for.; 11/23/18, 10:45 AM
Not an oldster. said...: Robother you are just being dumb in your trash talk now...; 11/23/18, 10:47 AM
Dust Bunny Queen said...: LOL @ unknown.

Stick with the indoors child rearing please. Your societal expertise lies there for.

You don't know me very well do you?; 11/23/18, 10:50 AM
iowan2 said...: All the explanations have been offered. In short. Adult professional are better equipped to make the decision than people that have no knowledge about the circumstances. Occam's razor tells us the guys wanted to do it. Their motivation? None of my business. Doesn't affect me.; 11/23/18, 10:50 AM
Trumpit said...: "Deer vs Human lives.....weighing the cost to benefit. Human lives win."

Says a selfish human. Even Santa loves reindeer. Burl Ives did too. You need to go to Amazon, and rent Bambi. Doe Lives Matter.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bMletImQ_cs; 11/23/18, 10:51 AM
Dust Bunny Queen said...: Another Bambi short film; 11/23/18, 10:55 AM
AllenS said...: There are no lakes in Polk county at this time that have enough ice to support a vehicle. Saw 2 people ice fishing on Middle Pine lake yesterday. They were about 30 ft from shore.; 11/23/18, 10:57 AM
Char Char Binks, Esq. said...: It's good practice for when they have to rescue a person.; 11/23/18, 11:03 AM
Dust Bunny Queen said...: A different Rudolph the Red Nosed Reindeer story.

They "used" to call him names. Used to.; 11/23/18, 11:03 AM
iowan2 said...: I waste a lot of time in heavy traffic.

You make a choice to invest your time in heavy traffic.; 11/23/18, 11:03 AM
Anne in Rockwall, TX said...: Unknown has a rude awakening coming if he sticks around. Prejudge DBQ at your own risk.; 11/23/18, 11:13 AM
Trumpit said...: "You make a choice to invest your time in heavy traffic."

You are fortunate to have never experienced being stuck in traffic for hours. I envy you. Many roads, such as Pacific Coast Highway (PCH) were shut down due to the recent wildfires.; 11/23/18, 11:14 AM
Nonapod said...: I hit a deer with my brand new car a week and a half ago, killing it and doing $5k in damage. Damn thing sprang right out in front of my car in the dead of night and was completely unavoidable. I generally really love animals, but in that moment I was furious and was glad it was dead.; 11/23/18, 11:20 AM
James K said...: It's not just the damage to the car. People sometimes die in these deer-auto collisions. October and November are peak season for that.; 11/23/18, 11:30 AM
AllenS said...: Deer kill people --

Sometimes multiple people; 11/23/18, 11:46 AM
Yancey Ward said...: I would have ordered no man onto the ice for a deer, even with the man tethered to a boat. Were I in charge, I wouldn't have asked for volunteers, nor would have I have accepted them. This is misplaced priorities- a deer isn't worth the risk of death or even harm. However, I would not have stopped people from taking the risk on themselves.; 11/23/18, 11:49 AM
DUSTER said...: Deer going under and drowning is pretty common, take a walk down a river bank in early spring when the rivers are in spring breakup. Banks are littered with unsuccessful attempts at crossing. Deer have always been masters of the kamakazie attack, in the old days with a full sized Pontiac after a strike you would go out and hose the bumpers off, now its an explosion of plastic and aluminum.; 11/23/18, 11:54 AM
Birkel said...: Unknown9144 seems like kind of an ass hole.
Noted.; 11/23/18, 12:04 PM
Trumpit said...: "In 2017, there were 36.82 million hunting licenses, tags, permits and stamps in the U.S."

"A single death is a tragedy; a million deaths is a statistic."; 11/23/18, 12:04 PM
Birkel said...: A freezer full of protein is a blessing.; 11/23/18, 12:08 PM
Trumpit said...: I'll never forget you, Giggles. You made me laugh.

https://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/government-agents-search-animal-shelter-kill-baby-deer-named-giggles-article-1.1416063; 11/23/18, 12:16 PM
Gospace said...: Browndog said...
Why waste human lives, resources on something that is inevitable?

If firefighter's lives were "wasted" rescuing deer there would be no deer rescues. Fire departments have these things called "proper equipment" to conduct a rescue without jeopardizing the safety of the rescuers.

Proper equipment helps make things safer.

Proper equipment DOESN'T make things safe.

There are lots of examples of this.; 11/23/18, 12:17 PM
Unknown said...: @ Nonapod

Yes, deer tend to do that, wait unseen on the side of a road and leap directly into the front of a vehicle. I've had exactly 2 auto accidents in the last ten years, and both of them were deer. The 65 mph hit totaled the vehicle but fortunately didn't injure my family or me.; 11/23/18, 12:25 PM
Gospace said...: We just went last weekend to an casino night event to raise funds for a small-town volunteer fire department's new oxygen equipment. Lots of people support volunteer fire departments, not just taxes.

When we lived in SC, NO tax money went to the VFD. They came around once a year and asked for your donation, you wrote out the check. Of course, if yo didn't, they wouldn't put out a fire at your house. They were mandated by law to rescue people in any structure fire if possible. But weren't mandated to try and save the structure. So if you didn't pay up, they'd rescue anyone inside, then keep the fire from spreading to neighboring houses. Provided they had contributed...

Is that right? Well, yes. Down there, you RISK losing your home if you fail to pay them AND have a fire. Where I live now the VFD is a taxing authority. If you fail to pay them, you WILL lose your house for non-payment of taxes. Is that right?; 11/23/18, 12:27 PM
FullMoon said...: "We pay $17,000+ a year in property taxes. This makes no sense to me,' Now THAT makes no sense to me. And with the Dems back in the Governors mansion, hold on to your wallets.

Wow. What do retirees do in Wisconsin? Have to sell and move?

In crazy California, original owner across the street pays around $1600.00
New guy across the street bought home for 1.1 last year, he pays less than 9,000.; 11/23/18, 12:29 PM
Jim at said...: Whatever happened to a call (or a letter) - especially since it's an elected official - to the agency director asking for an explanation or clarification of the incident? And then ask the questions on whether or not it's a good use of manpower?

The agency may not be wrong on the merits. The legislator may not be wrong on the merits. Both of them publicizing it is why we live in this constant state of outrage.

It's gets beyond tiring.; 11/23/18, 12:38 PM
FullMoon said...: Unknown said...

Lifeguards practice too. Easier to replicate drowning situations in an indoor pool though than one in riskier dituations. Responders on the scene and not politicians or professord are the best ones to determine risk assessment. Local control is a good thing.

11/23/18, 10:34 AM

Philip Surridge screamed ‘help me, please don’t let me die’ as he struggled in the water. But a fire crew sent to the scene wouldn’t go to his aid because they were not trained in water rescues

SAN FRANCISCO — Fire crews and police could only watch after a man waded into San Francisco Bay, stood up to his neck and waited. They wanted to do something, but a policy tied to earlier budget cuts strictly forbade them from trying to save the 50-year-old, officials said. A witness finally pulled the apparently suicidal man's lifeless body from the 54-degree water.; 11/23/18, 12:39 PM
Jim at said...: The arrogance and condescension from 'unknown' sure seems familiar.
Can't quite place it ....; 11/23/18, 12:44 PM
n.n said...: Individual dignity, intrinsic value, and, perhaps, inordinate worth, of.... a deer.; 11/23/18, 12:45 PM
exhelodrvr1 said...: Deerist!; 11/23/18, 1:05 PM
AllenS said...: Jim at said...
The arrogance and condescension from 'unknown' sure seems familiar.
Can't quite place it ....

I had the same feeling.; 11/23/18, 1:30 PM
Marc in Eugene said...: How does someone need to be rescued from a corn silo? and-- am I reading the comment right-- how does one die in? at? by? under? a corn silo? Am imagining a badly done horror movie.; 11/23/18, 3:10 PM
John henry said...: Fall into ths corn and drown? I am imagining that a silo full of corn kernals would be like quicksand.

Re volunteer fire department funding back in the 90s I did some research for a class I was teaching. At that time something like 75% of all us homes were protected by vfw's.

In general, vfw's got no govt funding. Funding was via activities (carnivals, dances etc) and assessments. Don't pay and your house would not be protected.

Don't pay and your insurance would be void.

In some cases the insurance company would pay the assessment and build it into the premium.

In the 60s, Fairfax County was the richest county in the US. Entirely protected by vfw's.

Bobby Kennedy lived in McLean at the time. Some firefighters might have felt conflicted if his house caught fire.

John Henry; 11/23/18, 5:01 PM
Not an oldster. said...: It is an ugly way to die. Suffocated by corn kernels when you have fallen in the top and cannot move or get put. Google corn silo deaths. It is more common than you think...
Allen no one said there is ice thick enough to drive on now in your county. Read better. It was open water and no one belly crawled on ice for 500 yards like DBQ suggested. I must have confused DBQ with the woman with the Irish husband who just had the additional baby girl. Apologies to all who got their feelings hurt today by honest disagreement
Those men volunteered to practice their rescue skills and none of them were hurt or sore like the politician. Be glad there are men like that out there so you can sleep easy at night. Not hiding anything here Allen s. Just observing you are a long time removed from your war service and it seems your over cautious instincts have kicked in. Count your blessings for the younger men not as afraid to be for first responders who can still perform on the team like this. The he life they save one day might be your own, if you ever get out in the winter And off the computer commenting on the lady professor's blog... No shame in being elderly and finding yourself risk averse with the women and children...; 11/23/18, 5:21 PM
Marc in Eugene said...: Thanks, Unknown and John Henry. I learned only last year that people really do die from cow attacks.; 11/23/18, 5:23 PM
Not an oldster. said...: Thank you Marc for being man enough at your age to learn and admit there are things you do not understand and do not need to spout off on for ego reasons. Too many oldsters lack this and it likely will endangered them or others one day. Practice and preparation saves human lives. I do not see the eradication of all deer in a mass genocide to protect cars and drivers any time soon, nor outlawing corn silos. Living life means learning to access risks and being grateful to those able to perform as a team, while your individual skills might leave you cowering on the sidelines or banks, perhaps rightly so. Do not risk yourself but do not criticize those who assess their own risks differently than you...; 11/23/18, 5:40 PM
Narayanan said...: No videos? For training film after action analysis?; 11/23/18, 8:25 PM
Joe said...: The story I want to read is about how Elk got caught in a lake. People passing by stopped to help. When the Elk finally got out, the people shot them because, well, Elk are damn good eating.; 11/24/18, 12:02 PM
Rusty said...: Yes, Annie. Muddler minnows. Some pulled red yarn for a tail. a little lead and gold tinsel for a body and spun deer hair for a head and gill covers.
Deer are very delicate. When one was stuck in a mud hole along the Peirre Marquet river in Michigan, passing conoists tried to rescue it. Finally enough do gooders complained to the local DNR officers that dozen of them went out and after an hour or so managed to pull the deer out of the mud. The deer died from stress shortly after. The DNR drug the carcas deep into the woods for the coyotes and the wolves. Left alone the deer would have eventually died from stress anyway and still been food for other wild life. Sometimes the best thing to do is to do nothing.; 11/24/18, 4:08 PM