October 13, 2018

"[R]egardless of the effectiveness of [Kanye] West’s precise words, he does represent something — and that something is frightening to Democrats."

"Heaven forbid a successful, independent, young African American with a huge social media following would get out of line and gleefully support Trump. Watching the liberals panic has been kind of fun.... CNN’s coverage was particularly hysterical, alarming and insulting. Rep. Jackie Speier (D-Calif.) went so far as to question West’s sanity for meeting with the president. 'I felt like I was sitting in on a psychiatrist visit and a commercial for Donald Trump,' she said. Eager to pile on, CNN host Don Lemon ranted against West on Thursday, saying he put on a 'minstrel show' for the president, in essence questioning the legitimacy of West’s blackness. Even before West’s Oval Office meeting, CNN commentator Tara Setmayer said, 'He’s the token Negro of the Trump administration.' Another CNN commentator, Bakari Sellers, in an apparently botched and distasteful reference to a decades-old Chris Rock bit, said, 'Kanye West is what happens when Negros don’t read.'... All of this kind of reminds me of the infamous 2009 'beer summit' when President Barack Obama convened a Harvard professor and Cambridge police officer to discuss race relations and racial profiling. But that gathering accomplished nothing aside from providing the media with a feeding frenzy of contrived coverage. So if Obama could have his beer summit to do nothing, Trump and West can meet in order to stir the pot and see what happens. This will be interesting to watch. I hope the Trump and Kanye show continues."

Writes Ed Rogers at WaPo. Rogers is a GOP consultant who worked in the Reagan and the George H.W. Bush administrations. I quoted him because he summed up the CNN coverage concisely, and because he's right that the Democrats are not helping themselves by making such a big deal out of the West-Trump meeting and inviting disrespect for West. But Rogers's leaning back and enjoying the "show" isn't much different from Don Lemon's calling it a "show" (except that Don Lemon, tappng his own racial privilege as a black man, called it a "minstrel show").

Here's a Jonathan Chait piece from July 2017: "I Have Found America’s Worst Columnist" ("Ed Rogers is a Washington lobbyist, and, for reasons I have never been able to discern, a regular op-ed columnist for the Washington Post.... First, as founding member of a lobbying firm with a wide-ranging portfolio and a presumably enormous income, literally everything he writes suffers from crippling conflicts of interest. Second, he is a terrible writer whose arguments lack any originality, persuasive power or, quite often, even facial plausibility").

I don't know about that, but here's what I'm thinking about Kanye West and Trump. West is an artist. Words flow out of him in a way that doesn't make you want to give him any political responsibility but that reaches your emotions. You can distance him and laugh at him and deem him crazy. But you can also be with him and hear him and love him, which is what Trump did. We watched West open up to Trump, trust Trump with his inner, artistic self, and we watched Trump accepting that connection and intimacy. Trump gave West access to the Oval Office, and West determined how to use that access, and Trump let West happen in his presence. Many onlookers felt uncomfortable, but they are, perhaps, condemned by their own discomfort.

I'm going to give this my "Trump's genius" tag.

346 comments:

1 – 200 of 346   Newer›   Newest»
Comanche Voter said...

With Trump and Company trolling the left/progressive/media alliance, popcorn futures are looking good. Is it a show? Yer dang tooting!

Michael K said...

The Democrats are paying the price for decades of neglect of black issues and their eagerness to import a new Hispanic voting population.

Teachers' unions trumped black parents for decades.

Ken B said...

The “show” thing is very different. Rogers means watching the CNN talking heads make fools of themselves unprompted and under their own control. Lemon implies West is a trained monkey. Very different.

Ken B said...

Michael K
I have been saying for decades that education is how the GOP can break the Democrats. I had hopes with DeVos, but she has underperformed so far.
Bad schools are one of the easiest serious problems to fix, if you can break the union stranglehold.

tcrosse said...

Maybe Trump isn't a genius, but he's definitely a Knave among Fools.

Mr. D said...

Teachers' unions trumped black parents for decades.

Yep. Benefactors always get more attention.

EDH said...

Trump's embrace seems to bring out the demonization of blacks by all the "right" blacks.

On Thursday in the Oval Office, [Jack] Johnson posthumously found an unexpected champion: President Trump...

Though other presidents passed up the chance to pardon him, Mr. Trump noted that the last resolution in Congress calling for the pardon was while Mr. Obama was in office, in 2015.

“They couldn’t get the president to sign it,” Mr. Trump said...

In a television interview, Mr. Obama’s attorney general, Eric H. Holder Jr., had also raised the fact there was a history of domestic violence accusations against Johnson.

Johnson, who won the heavyweight title in 1908 and was ostentatious and outspoken in a way black celebrities rarely were at the time, was convicted in 1913 of violating the Mann Act on charges that he had transported a white woman across state lines “for immoral purposes.”

...He taunted his opponents in the ring and dated white women, which was taboo, and in some places illegal, at the time.

mockturtle said...

Many onlookers felt uncomfortable, but they are, perhaps, condemned by their own discomfort.

Spot on!

Robin Eatmon said...

What you wrote about Trump and West was beautiful.

gg6 said...

ALTHOUSE: "...We watched West open up to Trump, trust Trump with his inner, artistic self, and we watched Trump accepting that connection and intimacy. Trump gave West access to the Oval Office, and West determined how to use that access, and Trump let West happen in his presence. Many onlookers felt uncomfortable, but they are, perhaps, condemned by their own discomfort. I'm going to give this my "Trump's genius" tag"
HEAR, HEAR, AMEN! I say. But let's add a "West's genius tag" to it?!

Achilles said...

The preference cascade started over a year ago.

Trump will be favorably compared to the great presidents by history just as Reagan is.

Bob said...

Trump doesn't have to be a genius. In the current environment, you simply don't have to be a damn fool to get ahead. The competition is that bad.

Darrell said...

Yeezy, now.

Michael K said...

DeVos may be more concerned with vouchers as a way to finesse the unions.

In Tucson, the school district was trying to sell an unused school to a developer who planned to tear it down and build apartments. They wanted to prevent a charter school from buying the unused school.

The AZ legislature expanded vouchers beyond disabled students this year. The teachers' union and supporters devised an initiative to reverse the new law but, in drafting their initiative, they somehow reversed the effect so that a "YES" supports the new law instead of reversing it. It is hilarious. Now they are telling everyone to vote "NO" on their own initiative.

Vote NO on Prop 305.

To support Arizona's Prop. 305's goal — blocking vouchers expansion — you vote 'no'

These are the teachers ! They can't even write a ballot proposition correctly.

Achilles said...

Obama’s election was heralded as an important moment for racial healing.

Obama like all progressives divided us more.

Trump will deliver actual results.

glenn said...

Me B said “Bad schools are one of the easiest serious problems to fix, if you can break the union stranglehold.”

Bad schools are just another way of separating “them” from “us”.

grackle said...

And this racial/political breakthrough comes at the ideal time - right before the mid-terms. It is not just the spectacle of the West/Trump summit but the shitty way the MSM is reacting to it that will shave off some votes from the Black Democrat voting bloc. It will also add to the lack of credibility of the MSM which is already low. Without an overwhelming majority of black votes the Left will lose in the mid-terms. The release by Turkey of the pastor is the cherry on top.

Sam L. said...

One more black guy who's left "the Plantation".

Amadeus 48 said...

Trump has a unique approach to all this. Is it pandering to some segment of black Americans to open up to West? Maybe it's genius.

I am always interested in what John McWhorter, Glenn Loury, Shelby Steele, Jason Riley, Stephen Carter, and other independent black thinkers have to say about things like this (we have seen what the black hacks say, courtesy of CNN). I think a lot of people, black and white, do not necessarily connect with Kanye West, but many of us absolutely want to hear what Kanye and other independent black thinkers (and I include our own Crack Emcee in that group) have to say.

Let it roll.

Francisco D said...

West is an artist. Words flow out of him in a way that doesn't make you want to give him any political responsibility but that reaches your emotions.

Reaching your emotions, eh?

It sounds like he is coopting the leftists on that level.

Paco Wové said...

"Bad schools are one of the easiest serious problems to fix"

Really? Interested in what your ideas would be.

Michael K said...

It is not just the spectacle of the West/Trump summit but the shitty way the MSM is reacting to it that will shave off some votes from the Black Democrat voting bloc.

The problem is that many LIV Democrats pay no attention to the news or the facts.

The RNCC just dropped funding for several Congressional races including AZ CD 2 where a carpet bagger D is possibly leading a local Hispanic business woman who I have volunteered for. This was McSally's seat before she went for the Senate.

Not many black votes in AZ CD 2

Michael Fitzgerald said...

Very stable genius.

Michael K said...

Blogger Paco Wové said...
"Bad schools are one of the easiest serious problems to fix"

Really? Interested in what your ideas would be.


Vouchers, vouchers, vouchers.

Michael The Magnificent said...

And this is what happens when you bullshit yourself into believing your own propaganda that Trump is the second coming of Adolf Hitler, and that his supporters are all racist white supremacists hell bent on re-enslaving blacks.

Kanye was allowed to walk in under his own power, was allowed to say whatever was on his mind, and then was allowed to leave. How could literally-Hitler allow this to occur? Unless he isn't literally-Hitler? Oh no, don't start believing your eyes and questioning what you've been told to believe!

Francisco D said...

In Tucson, the school district was trying to sell an unused school to a developer who planned to tear it down and build apartments. They wanted to prevent a charter school from buying the unused school.

They are terrified of Dr. Kevin Leman (a 75 year-old psychologist and educator) who gets results by stressing character, lifelong learning and personal accountability with both teachers and students in his rapidly growing charter school business.

Narayanan Subramanian said...

Trump's genius is putting gladiators into the arena who cause hyenas to suicide.

Bay Area Guy said...

Black folks need to stop being politically pimped out by the Democrat Party. Sane productive black folk need to go Independent or, dare I say, GOP. I'm not saying all, I'm saying 20-25%. This will give them leverage to improve the GOP. Then, we can talk reparations with Crack.

Seeing Red said...

There’s a black guy in the WH getting FaceTime with the president.

Next stop “Hispanic.”

They’ll want face time too.

Seeing Red said...

I have a friend who was working with an AA, one of 10 kids ALL kids and their parents voted for Trump.

Next stop, prison reform. Trump will get it done.

The Cracker Emcee Rampant said...

West has talked about entering politics himself. Who knows, but he may prefer to do it as not just another Black face on the Democrat’s plantation. As Trump makes a play for Black voters, West is laying by some goodwill from White ones. Trump has probably made a thousand business deals that had the same dynamic of unstated mutual benefaction. As idiots stood by and wondered.

dreams said...

"Trump's genius"

Yeah, I think Trump is kind of a genius. I predict that we Republicans and the American people are going to have a great November.

anti-de Sitter space said...

So, Kanye is making MAGA popular w/ "the culture." The proof is that "the culture" doesn't like his MAGA stuff, as folks who follow "the culture" know. He's not most notably being a token that lets white folks feel good. The proof is the white folks who feel good re him re this MAGA stuff, as folks who follow stuff like this blog know.


Got it.

Yancey Ward said...

Chait embarrasses himself in complaining that an oped writer has conflicts of interest. Every oped writer has conflicts of interests- it is why they are on the oped page.

Machu Peach said...

"But Rogers's leaning back and enjoying the "show" isn't much different from Don Lemon's calling it a "show" (except that Don Lemon, tappng his own racial privilege as a black man, called it a "minstrel show")"

In this case I think Rogers' use of "show" refers to both the Trump/West interactions and the resulting CNN overreactions whereas Lemons' use of "show" is just referring to the Trump/West interactions.

The Crack Emcee said...

Questioning Kanye's sanity is fair - he's bi-polar - but his race? That's silly - and a sign of desperation.

And we don't need talk from whites about "politically pimped out" Democrats or "one more black guy who's left 'the Plantation'" - why you guys insist on such doggerel can only be because you see blacks and it brings it out of you. You don't do it otherwise.

Grow the fuck up.

Bay Area Guy said...

I too found the worst columnist in America - Jonathan Chait. A whiney little nancy-boy.

n.n said...

West presented a stream of consciousness. The culmination of a lifetime of dreams, beliefs, and knowledge. There was nothing untoward or controversial in his speech. Trump, as an accomplished manager, sits back, listens, and pulls out the parts he believes are useful and contribute to the success of the project.

The Crack Emcee said...

When I see you guys talking about whites on "the plantation" then I'll know you're not being racist.

But you are.

Chuck said...

Althouse you have summed up everything I loathe about Trump, and Kanye, and your (largely) uncritical analysis of both of them.

Rightly, you point to the fact that the Trump-Kanye alliance is about nothing so much as emotion. That neither one of them could stand up to any real questioning on issues and substance and policy details. And certainly, they could not do it together.

Althouse you parse the words of newspaper reporters and columnists and television commentators with precision and insight that I find so admirable. And then, when it comes to Trump and anything Trump-oriented, you turn a blind eye. The Trump-attackers in the media whom you routinely criticize are routinely deserving of your criticism. But they are using language in a way that makes Trump embarrassing, by any reasonable comparison.

mccullough said...

The over-reaction to Kanye’s Oval Office visit is mind numbing. A lot of these people have made some cruel comments about Kanye as well.

Renee said...

"Bad schools are one of the easiest serious problems to fix"

One of my kids attends a 'bad' public school.

Vouchers won't help.

The problem is bad kids, not bad schools. Move 5% of the problem/disruptive kids to an alternative setting. Why should I need to get a voucher and bus my kid out of my neighborhood, because of the problem kids in the class.

Even inner city charters have issues, because if they get a kid that's a problem. Well the student can ruin it for the whole class.

Jeremy Abrams said...

Don Lemon should have no racial privilege, and a minstrel, used in this context is an African American who seeks to please whites in an obsequious manner. Kanye's audience is multiracial, and he know full well many or most will not be pleased by what he's doing. This is courage, not minstrelry.

Mr. Lemon, by contrast, is conducting his show in a manner that will please his undoubtedly very white audience. I won't engage in name-calling, and I wouldn't call him a minstrel in any event, but as between him and Kanye...

Bay Area Guy said...

Can we make fun of Leftwing, hippie, whites also being stuck on the Democrat plantation?

On behalf of white people, I will offer to trade Adam Schiff, Dianne Feinstein and Bernie Sanders for Jim Brown, Kanye and Crack.

mccullough said...

Kanye has mental health struggles and is still succeeding. We can all be happy about that.

n.n said...

Trump has connected with both regular and elite Joes and Janes, and Kanyes, too. This was actually one of Obama's strengths, and Palin, and Walker, too, that set them apart from their competitors.

Michael K said...

Why should I need to get a voucher and bus my kid out of my neighborhood, because of the problem kids in the class.

When vouchers are available, private schools start to appear.

I would be for reform schools, like we used to have, but that would be harder.

The Crack Emcee said...

Conservative Whites can't wait until blacks leave the Democrats, so they can then make everything really uncomfortable, by constantly talking about "plantations" and shit being "pimped out", whenever we're around.

That'll fix everything.

Howard said...

That's the genius of Trump. Because the first talent of any con man is to be able to talk out of both sides of the mouth simultaneously. In Trump's case, he can carve off more Black votes than any checked-pants Rockefeller republican while at the same time inspire simpatico with white nationalists and white trash.

Michael K said...

Chuck is having another one of his NeverTrump attacks.

I'm sure you could do a better job as president, right? Just like you made that billion.

n.n said...

Kanye has mental health struggles and is still succeeding. We can all be happy about that.

Absolutely. His condition is manageable, and as both a creative and functional individual, he has performed well for himself and his family.

The Crack Emcee said...

Bay Area Guy said...

"Can we make fun of Leftwing, hippie, whites also being stuck on the Democrat plantation?"

Oh, you can, but do you is the question? No - you save your racism for blacks - denying it all the while.

"On behalf of white people, I will offer to trade Adam Schiff, Dianne Feinstein and Bernie Sanders for Jim Brown, Kanye and Crack."

1) Jim Brown wouldn't have you. 2) Kanye is friends with Trump - not Republicans - so stop dreaming. And 3) None of us are yours to trade, Asshole.

mccullough said...

Kanye’s music is popular with a lot of white people, too. A lot of whites like his sneaker line.



Howard said...

BAG may be channeling Dave Chappelle's racial draft
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2z3wUD3AZg4

buwaya said...

Politics is conducted with rhetoric Chuck.
That is unfortunate, probably, but so it is. People are annoying that way. The Greeks and Romans wrote a great deal about that sort of problem. The Catholic Church, and all other religions, organized themselves to solve parts of that problem.

These days even the analysis of political rhetoric is too often itself rhetorical.
As is yours in fact, because it is simply an emotional reaction against rhetoric you dislike. Althouse often does the same, but usually tries to see things from a more analytical perspective.

Bill R said...

Trump's approval rating among black people is up to 35%. If they start voting that way, the Democratic party will cease to exist, it will just fade away like a stale fart.

I see Facebook and Twitter posts that say things like "Trump talks to Kim Kardashian and Kanye West because they are as stupid as he is. Who care's what those idiots have to say?"

Keep it up guys. Please.

n.n said...

DeVos may be more concerned with vouchers as a way to finesse the unions.

I would look at both the private and public option in order to increase accountability, improve performance, manage costs, and control proximity and density.

William said...

Strange days. The right embraces Kanye West and puts Taylor Swift at a distance.......Here's a prediction: Taylor Swift will live a long, pleasant life and will be extremely rich when she passes on. I would not make a similar prediction about Kanye........I don't follow popular music. Taylor's music is far more accessible to my white ears than that of Kanye, but I'm no good judge of talent and durability. Bing Crosby in his era sold better than Louis Armstrong, but Armstrong is the one who belongs to the ages.......I wish good things for both Swift and West, but I don't recommend anyone take their advice on political matters. I suspect Swift's opinions were more calculated. I'm not sure if West is being brave or mercurial in his comments, but, for sure, they are not calculated.

Darrell said...

Blacks voting for Trump or Blacks not voting for Democrats. It's all good.

n.n said...

Trump's approval rating among black people is up to 35%.

Trump needs to focus on the three Rs: Revitalization. Rehabilitation. Reconciliation. And Sustainability. For example, address progressive costs in medical care and education through market forces or the less optimal "single-payer" alternative.

gspencer said...

"Hey, LBJ said we'd have them voting Democrat for 200 years. Guess he lied."

"Jake, of course he lied; he's a Democrat. You're a liar too. If we lose 15% of their vote we're in real trouble. 20% or more and we lying Ds are done."

narciso said...

Elois in the bunker full of morlocks.

buwaya said...

There seems to be a Nike-Adidas battle, Nike endorsed Kaepernick (really, it was that way, not the other), and Kanye West endorses Adidas. It remains to be seen if Adidas likewise continues to endorse Kanye.

Kasper Rorsted CEO of Adidas put out a statement re a possible backlash of Kanyes politics and statements - he's "not very worried about it", noting that Adidas does business in 75 countries and all of them have different politics.

Rory said...

"we watched Trump accepting that connection and intimacy. Trump gave West access to the Oval Office, and West determined how to use that access, and Trump let West happen in his presence"

Trump has been dealing with show folk for years, and has presumably learned not to hang on every word they say.

I think the freakout is broader than race. The Democrats really need to keep celebrities as a solid mass, to try to gaslight normals into thinking they're the ones who are out of step. White liberals can't attack West without massive backlash, though, so this attack has been assigned to Lemon and the rest.

Henry said...

Vouchers, vouchers, vouchers.

That's a concept, not a solution. I'm pro-voucher and pro-charter school, but saying vouchers will fix education is like saying health insurance will fix hospitals.

Howard said...

A man should never admit he likes Taylor Swift over Kanye. That's putting a "Cuck Me" sign on your own back

Renee said...

They not private schools, they are public schools since they run on public funds. Private schools are privately paid for.

Why do we need to build new schools? We have spent the money and the space for our local neighborhood ones.

tcrosse said...

White and Black working and middle class people have a lot more in common with each other than they have with Gentry Liberals or Country Club Republicans. Trump may have figured that out.

n.n said...

They are private with respect to their administration and policies, which enables the "50 state" laboratory dynamic that promises to seek the optimal solution. Even some private schools are downstream of public funds, but less noticeably and proportionally than their public counterparts.

buwaya said...

Unions are far from the only problem with US public education, or even the worst problem.

Vouchers and charters don't simply remove unions from the issue, but they act rather like Alexanders sword on the Gordian knot of legal and regulatory constraints, that is impossible to otherwise untangle, it is too complex to resolve.

The worst problem though is none of the above. It is the intellectual atmosphere that feeds into professional preparation that affects all teachers and administrators, in all schools no matter who owns them or how governed. And it also determines the very purposes for which the schools are run.

That last us why you have to burn Harvard.

J Melcher said...

The plantation analogy affects more that Blacks.

In my own lifetime, Cezar Chavez grew in reputation and historical regard for his work as a labor organizer among agricultural laborers -- and lately becoming canonized as a secular saint of Hispanic-Americans. Okay, fine. But it would behoove Republicans to review that history.

Chavez organized a consumer boycott of a representative crop -- grapes -- instead of leading workers out on strike. He was forth right about the reason. Had Hispanic-Americans, or currently resident (legal or otherwise) workers left the workplace, the crop owners would simply have encouraged new Mexican immigrants to take their place -- doing the same job for the same low wages and terrible conditions. Chavez was also concerned, and broke with allies, about Phillipino immigrants displacing Hispanic-Americans.

The Republicans should make VERY clear that protecting Hispanic/Latino rights, and right-to-work, and rights to fair pay, and safe working conditions, and participation in pensions or social security, and all such economic freedoms, are as threatened now as they were in Cezar Chavez's heydey. Hispanics workers, who are eligible to vote, have little logical reason to support Democratic policies and politicians who would open the borders to "scab" laborers who at least at present are NOT eligible to vote -- nor to encourage voter registration among such scabs to dilute their own worker-voter power. The Democrats assume that racial and language-affinity trumps (so to speak) economic self-interest. This assumption is wildly out-of-step with traditional Socialist-Marxist-PublicEconomic thought.

I think the assumption has some validity, Marx notwithstanding. Tribes gotta tribe. But attempting to peel off 10 or 20 percent of the voting tribe into voting on their pocketbooks instead of their tribal affinity seems to be worth trying. If Black voters come off the plantation to vote Republican, surely the Hispanic voters can come out of the vineyards and do the same.

Dust Bunny Queen said...

When I see you guys talking about whites on "the plantation" then I'll know you're not being racist.

Warning, long stream of consciousness ahead.

I think that the old time Unions who took advantage of the mostly white and less educated blue collar working class can be compared to the Plantation Owners with the members as slaves or serfs. They kept the workers under their control, kept them subservient to the Union by making promises and even through force. Union bosses and their enforcers to keep the members "in line" in order to take their votes, membership and dues for granted.

The Union membership must be kept on the Union Plantation.

Like the Democrat party (and actually most of the Unions were and still are Democrat machines) the Unions assume power and make promises to the gullible. The Unions have/had the power and they promised to use it for the benefit of the members....all the while the Union Bosses get rich.

I've actually been thinking about this tendency to try to blame Black people for falling into the Democrat fold as if it is some sort of fault or failing on the part of Black Americans. It isn't a failing or a fault, it is dynamic of power and powerlessness and how to get out of the pit. And thinking about the comparison to Unions with Democrat party control of the base, including the Blacks who they take for granted.

Think about how absolutely powerless the Blacks were after the Civil War. For at least 100 years. Sure....not actual slaves anymore but without any way to become self governing or have political power. Even in a small local way in their communities, blacks were excluded from participation or being allowed to have ideas to share.

The only way was to "hitch their wagon" to a more powerful (white) group, which turned out to be the Democrats. It could have been anyone, but it was the Dems. They used and still use, Blacks and other ethnic groups as tools to get and keep power....JUST LIKE THE UNIONS. Make promises which you never intend to keep. Keep your voter base under your thumb. On the plantation.....in the union.

As some people see the advantage of becoming powerful through the organization, like the union bosses and enforcers, some Blacks would naturally seize the power that was being offered and it naturally would corrupt them. This is just human nature and nothing to do with race or ethnicity.

Today, we see the stranglehold of the Unions become less as people wake up to what has been done to them. In people like West and others, we also see the awakening about the stranglehold that the Democrat party has had on them. My hope is that it will FREE people from those holds to be able to think freely and to follow their OWN path. Just jumping from the Democrats to the Republicans....or changing from one Union to another ...OR creating your own organization to imprison your self is not the answer.

The Crack Emcee said...

Howard said...

"That's the genius of Trump...he can carve off more Black votes than any checked-pants Rockefeller republican while at the same time inspire simpatico with white nationalists and white trash."

This is such a misreading, of what's happening, it's hilarious:

Trump's been hanging with blacks since the 80s - starting with Russell Simmons and, later, P-Diddy, and now Kanye - so when did he make common cause with white nationalists?

Face it: The David Duke types are opportunistically claiming Trump, and Democrats (to their shame and political viability) are lying about it to try and get some traction on him.

It's bullshit tactics like that which make them deserving of losing.

anti-de Sitter space said...

This reminds me of Althouse occasionally declaring that an SNL open is not funny. And then, I've heard the Stern Show and/or Rogan talking to a bunch of comics who all say that that same SNL open is comedy genius.

Althouse is cool. And, funny.

n.n said...

You can simultaneously approve and reject some combination of West's politics and art, and approve or reject Swift's politics and art. This is not exclusively or even mostly about about sex and gendered attributes. Character and merit, respectively, matter, too.

chickenlittle said...

I predict that SNL will spoof West’s Oval Office visit tonight. I predict that it will flop.

tim in vermont said...

Genius in common usage means agreement with the utterer.

mockturtle said...

J Melcher: I worked on Cesar Chavez's grape boycott. And, yes, he was vocal about illegals taking the jobs of legal farm workers at that time. Here in SW AZ, the legal farm workers, as well as the many Hispanic contractors and other business employers and employees, are very much against illegals being allowed to enter/remain here. This may account for the fact that our county, while 2/3 Hispanic, votes red.

FIDO said...

Don Lemon is calling the meeting a 'show'

Ed isn't calling THAT a show. He is busy enjoying the show of Democrats losing their minds.

They are not equivalent shows at all.

mockturtle said...

Crack, Howard isn't worth even a scathing response.

mockturtle said...

Don Lemon is an asshole, in more ways than one.

buwaya said...

"so when did he make common cause with white nationalists?"

Arguably, back when he took up the birther cause vs Obama.
That had quite a lot of buy-in among white nationalists without being explicitly racist. It was about being "foreign", not black. Very likely will be seen as a brilliant move in retrospect. How to make difficult but necessary friends without entirely alienating other friends. He was assembling a coalition before being in politics.

And in 2015 of course on immigration. Same thing.

mockturtle said...

DBQ asserts: Think about how absolutely powerless the Blacks were after the Civil War.

It may come as a surprise to some that not all blacks in the US at that time were slaves.

elkh1 said...

West is an artist. Words flow out of him in a way that doesn't make you want to give him any political responsibility but that reaches your emotions. You can distance him and laugh at him and deem him crazy. But you can also be with him and hear him and love him, which is what Trump did.

Trump is an egomaniac. Words flow out of him in a way that doesn't make you want to give him any political responsibility but that reaches your emotions. You can distance him and laugh at him and deem him crazy. But you can also be with him and hear him and love him, which is what Deplorables did, which is why he won and keeps on winning.

buwaya said...

There are no white plantations because the US political split is essentially white vs white. Two (at least) castes of whites hate each other bitterly, and are trying to bulk up numbers by adding groups of others.

Michael K said...

Blogger n.n said...
DeVos may be more concerned with vouchers as a way to finesse the unions.

I would look at both the private and public option in order to increase accountability, improve performance, manage costs, and control proximity and density.


That, of course, is the idea. Renee thinks we need to build more schools to have vouchers.

Tucson has empty schools because so many people have abandoned public school since there is an alternative,

The purpose of vouchers is not to replace public schools. It is to provide an alternative. Competition is what Adam Smith wrote about.

A fourth theme is that this system is automatic. Where things are scarce, people are prepared to pay more for them: there is more profit in supplying them, so producers invest more capital to produce them. Where there is a glut, prices and profits are low, producers switch their capital and enterprise elsewhere. Industry thus remains focused on the nation’s most important needs, without the need for central direction.

But the system is automatic only when there is free trade and competition. When governments grant subsidies or monopolies to favoured producers, or shelter them behind tariff walls, they can charge higher prices. The poor suffer most from this, facing higher costs for the necessities that they rely on.


The role of teachers, and public employee, unions is to create a subsidy.

Vouchers and charter schools do not increase the number of children. They only increase parents' options.

Vouchers lost on the ballot in California, back when California was sane, because suburban parents thought vouchers would bring poor kids into their children's' schools. They would only have added opportunities in the poor neighborhoods.

Public schools are being closed in Chicago. Vouchers could allow black parents to move kids to empty schools in their neighborhoods.

Bill, Republic of Texas said...

Then, we can talk reparations with Crack

"Fuck off leach."

Good talk.

n.n said...

DBQ asserts: Think about how absolutely powerless the Blacks were after the Civil War.

It may come as a surprise to some that not all blacks in the US at that time were slaves.


DBQ has a valid point. In practice, blacks had a steeper learning curve, which could have been softened within a couple of generations. In a similar strain, not all women were denied a vote, and, in fact, The Constitution does not discriminate by sex, but the 19th Amendment assured uniform voting rights among the states.

Michael K said...


Blogger mockturtle said...
DBQ asserts: Think about how absolutely powerless the Blacks were after the Civil War.

It may come as a surprise to some that not all blacks in the US at that time were slaves.


Actually, until Wilson was President in 1912, blacks were prominent in federal and state government.

n.n said...

back when he took up the birther cause vs Obama... It was about being "foreign", not black

Yes. And Clinton before him.

n.n said...

Actually, until Wilson was President in 1912, blacks were prominent in federal and state government.

That's true. It wasn't originally and uniformly a black and white issue. Same for women's suffrage. Same for relations with native nations and tribes.

Howard said...

Your naivety is showing Crack. Trump needs the white nationalists vote way more than the Blacks. He knows how to make them comfortable in their prejudice and hatred so that they buy what he is selling. Of course democrats exaggerate this, so what, that's their job.

Jupiter said...

"West is an artist. Words flow out of him in a way that doesn't make you want to give him any political responsibility but that reaches your emotions."

I suppose that if we are going to pretend to take buffoons like Al Sharpton and Don Lemon seriously, just because they are black, we might as well pretend to take Kanye West seriously too.

"I was diagnosed with bipolar disorder. I was connected with a neuropsychologist that works with the athletes in the NBA and NFL. He looked at my brain, it’s equal on three parts."

Sounds like West has tri-polar disorder. He's not just smarter than the rest of us, he's crazier too!

dustbunny said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
mccullough said...

There are very few “white nationalists” in the US. Comically low number. David Duke is the boogeyman the Left invented. The Right counters with Farrakhan the boogeyman. Very few “black nationalists” in the US.

Duke v Farrakhan. These guys are cartoon characters

Howard said...

Entartete Kunst

mccullough said...

Vermont is the whitest State in the US. New England is the whitest region of the US.

If anyone can be called white nationalists, it’s these folks.

Howard said...

mcc: Duke v Farrakhan. These guys are cartoon characters

Yes, but they have tons of admirers among the silent majority. Politicians know how to harvest votes from these bottom feeders.

cronus titan said...

While the Democrat media complex is obsessed with sex, and a host of other superficial personal issues, Trump has delivered huge economic growth, including minorities, prison reform, and other issues that actually matter. The Democrat media complex needs 90+% black vote with huge turnouts to win. SHowing that there is diversity within the black community is a huge threat to Democrat media prospects.

Rusty said...

/18, 12:05 PM
"Blogger Henry said...
Vouchers, vouchers, vouchers.

That's a concept, not a solution. I'm pro-voucher and pro-charter school, but saying vouchers will fix education is like saying health insurance will fix hospitals."

Vouchers mean choice.
In its current embodyment health insurance means limiting choice.

Ann Althouse said...

"The “show” thing is very different. Rogers means watching the CNN talking heads make fools of themselves unprompted and under their own control. Lemon implies West is a trained monkey. Very different."

Rogers says " I hope the Trump and Kanye show continues." I can see how you might interpret what Lemon et al are doing as "the Trump and Kanye show" but it's not. If you read more of the article, you would know. For example: "With West in tow, Trump could walk into the most impoverished neighborhoods in the country and ask a simple question that would push many Democrats and members of the traditional African American leadership out of their comfort zone. I can see Trump arriving in the most blighted parts of Baltimore or Chicago and saying..."... etc. etc.

dustbunny said...

It seems Althouse is saying Trump is giving Kanye space to practice and display his art. In which case the leftist media are similar to the 19th century academicians who refused exhibition space to the supposedly deranged and messy Impressionists (originally a derisive appellation). The Academy was appalled by the rebellious and unofficial art.

Hagar said...

Actually, until Wilson was President in 1912, blacks were prominent in federal and state government.

bNot true. But before Wilson there was no official Federal policy setting Black people apart from the rest of us.

mockturtle said...

Michael K reports: Actually, until Wilson was President in 1912, blacks were prominent in federal and state government.

And the first black governor predated the Civil War:

Born in Macon, Georgia, on May 10, 1837, the son of a former slave, Pinckney Pinchback fought in the Civil War as a captain in the Union Army. He was the first African American to serve as a U.S. state governor, from 1872 to 1873 in Louisiana.

And, yeah, Wilson was by far the most racist President we ever had and was--of course--a a Democrat.




mockturtle said...

PS: His post as Louisiana governor did not predate the Civil War.

Unknown said...

The SC state consitution as it now stands still has remnants of the post Civil War provisions designed to "protect" against voting blacks. In particular, the Govenor's position is very weak, since it is the only office voted on by all citizens and it was thought that in a majority black state (which SC was until the Great Migration) it would eventually go to a black Governor. Likewise many important state functions are handled by odd little boards over which neither the Governor nor the Legislature has much control. (One Depression era Governor famously sent troops to take over the Highway Department).

Of course, the "solution" adopted when Federal troops left was simply to stop blacks from voting so a lot of that became moot.

daskol said...

Howard is onto something. What if the interests of black people and deplorables overlap? Trump can harvest votes from all kinds of bottom feeders, across the racial spectrum. Just by offering them an alternative.

Michael K said...

Trump needs the white nationalists vote way more than the Blacks.

More Howard derangement syndrome. Howard defines "White Nationalist" as any white person who votes Republican.

Breezy said...

They are morphing Kanye speak into gibberish. But if you listen differently, you can understand him. He’s got his own dialect, in a way.

wildswan said...

Whites are not "on the plantation". They are "in the cubicle", perhaps, but this would be a new cliche deriving its strength from paralleling "on the plantation". "They took the blue pill" is current.

I think a lot of people think of all the megaphone mouths as Wormtongue but translate this ruling inner image into secular cliches. Some of these cliches reflect past history like Commie, McCarthy, Salem Witch trials, globalist; and others are drawn from science fiction like "the Swamp", "our galactic overlords", "the empire strikes back" or dystopias like "1984", "Gulliver". There isn't a settled epithet for the selling of America which occurred since 1991. "Globalist" doesn't convey the idea that a part of the elite sold out their own country, ruining the American economy and receiving contemptuously small commissions in return for their assistance (small in terms of the economic value of what they sold); and that this crowd of economic Benedict Arnolds have well-paid megaphone-mouth enablers in both parties. And this is the Swamp and the Swamp hates Trump who proposes to Drain It.

Now what is the name for the take of the black community on this unnamed situation, on Drain the Swamp, on Lock Her Up? Is it different or is it the same? Should we look for a parallel in past history which seems to be a fraught thing to do? Or what?

Howard said...

More insecurity from Doc Mike who must create strawmen to slay along his hero's journey.

Yancey Ward said...

I wonder whether or not Don Lemon considers himself one of CNN's "House Negroes"?

As for West, he clearly sees the value in contrarianism- something most people undervalue, including, it seems now, Taylor Swift.

Yancey Ward said...

What is the "Nationalist White" vote, Howard? How big?

JaimeRoberto said...

Maybe this is West's revenge on Obama who called him a jackass.

cubanbob said...

Why is it that the blatantly obvious is invisible to most of the commenters here? Trump's genius if you will is simply stating the obvious to the poor and working people of the country: what do you have to lose? Trump promised ( and so far is delivering) to these people a growing economy ( it is) and to curb illegal immigration ( which competes with these Americans) thus creating a labor shortage which would greatly benefit the poor ( as in getting jobs and therefore not be poor) and working people with higher incomes. Trump is successful in part because because a part of what he promoting is Old School Democrat policies. Trump fights like a Democrat.

While Trump is now a politician and thus seeks votes, to the extent he resonates with poor and working Blacks is that these people have economic interests that are more aligned with Trump's positions than with the current Left that is the Democrat Party today. Another thing Trump has in his favor is that for all of his bombast and self-promotion Trump would still be championing these positions that would benefit Blacks even if it doesn't gain him or the Republicans one single extra vote. Will he and the Republicans take their votes? Of course, that goes without saying but from Trump there comes across that he really believes he is doing the right thing simply because it is the right thing and that gives credence to his pitch to the poor and the working class of what do you have to lose?

Crack has a point ( albeit he stretches it too far at times) about comments about the plantation etc. These types of comments are not helpful, are demeaning and retard the point being conveyed that the Left is now a crazy cult at best and they are economic and societal disasters at worst.

Ralph L said...

But that gathering accomplished nothing aside from providing the media with a feeding frenzy of contrived coverage

It punctured the bubble of Obama's approval rating. Some people realized he wasn't interested in "racial healing" as he claimed. The photo of him walking ahead with his nose in the air, leaving the cop to help Gates down the stair, is seared in my hippopotamus.

Jim at said...

Jim Brown will deliver more blacks to the polls for Trump than Kayne West will.

His attendance is being overshadowed, but will have greater impact down the road.

The leftist mob is scared. They should be.

JaimeRoberto said...

I've always taken the plantation thing as a dig at the Democrats who seem to think they own the black vote and who will destroy anyone who makes a run for the other party or for independence from the Democrats.

FIDO said...

To be honest, my thoughts on Kanye are the same as with Trump: A grandstanding ego maniac with poor impulse control (I am slowly changing my opinion on Trump on this, particularly after Kavanaugh).

So I still don't 'like' Kanye. I am not his target demographic. I still think what he did to Taylor Swift was rather insulting. (And the wheel still turns)

But his actions are symbolic and they resonate. I think it is refreshing for more black voices like Kanye and Candace Owens to offer more choice to Black Americans.

Republicans have very little to offer blacks...save jobs and maybe better schools. Everything else is on them. We punish provable prejudice...but like Rape, provable prejudice is...difficult at times.

Now, finally, I believe with the Mexicans, the Blacks are rethinking things. I see a lot of Conservative Black content, particularly by Black men on the internet.

It seems that many Black Men are just as fed up with Feminist nonsense and are speaking out about it.

And to that I say "Welcome, brothers!"

tim in vermont said...

Trump needs the white nationalists vote way more than the Blacks.

I bet there aren't more than a few thousand real "White Nationalists" nationwide. But maybe if you gave us a definition Howard, we could come up with an estimate of the vote you are describing.

Howard is obviously running scared if all he can do is lay the white left's played out race card.

Guildofcannonballs said...

Obama goes off script and calls Ye a jackass and look at we have now.

That Obama sure is a reckless narcissist Hellbent on mere greedy endeavours, one who done chawed off more 'en he could chew and now reaps whirls of the winds.

tim in vermont said...

What is the "Nationalist White" vote, Howard? How big?

He has shown himself to be a troll, and troll's don't define their terms. Better to smear the most people.

narciso said...

Well I found the whole birth certificate thing a dead end but b lumenthal couldn't challenge on ideological grounds they were neglible.

tim in vermont said...

The difference between "show" and "minstrel show" is somewhere along the lines of the difference between "employee" and "chattel slave."

William said...

Upon further reflection, I think the better comparison is between Dinah Shore and Louis Armstrong. Dinah, in her day, sold more records than Louis, but there's no question who had the greatest talent. However, there's more to life than making music. It should be remembered that Dinah, in late middle age, was fooling around with Burt Reynolds when he was a stud muffin. So there you have it. This late middle aged white woman had a better sex life than the black superstar. How's that for defying stereotypes........In like way, we should note that Taylor Swift has gone through a number of publicized romances whilst Kanye has settled down with Kim Kardashian. Advantage Swift. I wouldn't be a bit surprised if Taylor has a more lurid sex life than West.....I admire Taylor's business acumen. She knows how to make money. West, like Michael Jackson, seems more like a money spending machine than a business entrepreneur. But that's where I would give the advantage to his wife, Kim Kardashian. Despite no known talent, she has made hundreds of millions. If Kanye doesn't due broke, it will be because of Kim's business sense......I doubt not think any man will find enduring happiness with either Taylor Swift or Kim Kardashian. I would recommend Katy Perry to those who seek fulfillment and joy in their female celebrities.

William Chadwick said...

Anything outside the Hive is against the Hive.

tim in vermont said...

I will say that one of the reasons I think Trump might be an actual genius is that I find it impossible to predict his moves, yet they work out pretty well for him and the country as a whole, by and large. Obama was as predictable as a falling rock.

The Crack Emcee said...

buwaya said...

"The birther cause vs Obama...had quite a lot of buy-in among white nationalists without being explicitly racist."

Without being explicitly racist because - again - it's not what it's claimed: Buy-in by white supremacists don't make Trump an active recruiter of white supremacists. When he started his birther nonsense, it put him in the same fold that called 9/11 an inside job: Conspiracy theorists, of which America has many.

It's a trip, how twisted-up everyone is, when I can untangle the truth in this mess in minutes.

The Crack Emcee said...

mockturtle said...

"It may come as a surprise to some that not all blacks in the US at that time were slaves."

Anybody seen a manuscript of American blacks, at any time in this nation's history, living a full lifetime of something resembling happiness?

The Crack Emcee said...

Bill, Republic of Texas said...
Then, we can talk reparations with Crack

"Fuck off leach."

Good talk.

BWAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA-HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!

tim in vermont said...

Maybe we can bet buwaya to define "white nationalists"?

The Crack Emcee said...

n.n said...
DBQ asserts: Think about how absolutely powerless the Blacks were after the Civil War.

It may come as a surprise to some that not all blacks in the US at that time were slaves.

DBQ has a valid point. In practice, blacks had a steeper learning curve, which could have been softened within a couple of generations. In a similar strain, not all women were denied a vote, and, in fact, The Constitution does not discriminate by sex, but the 19th Amendment assured uniform voting rights among the states.

It may come as a surprise to some that white men could rape black women with impunity until the '60s, so - yeah - in this, and many other ways, "blacks had a steeper learning curve".

And reparations are warranted.

The Crack Emcee said...

Michael K said...

"Actually, until Wilson was President in 1912, blacks were prominent in federal and state government."

And then he fired everybody - but reparations aren't warranted because, as any fool knows, arbitrary shit like this (and lynchings, the KKK, etc.) has and had no economic influence on blacks.

wildswan said...

I will never like a music that calls women ho's and bitches and talks about rape and I probably wouldn't have liked rap and hip hop even if they didn't. I don't know why the Kardashians are popular. I don't know why Bruce Jenner became Caitlin. I think underpants should be covered and pants should stay up.

I think hysteria is very unpleasant. I think the way you gain power is the way you will rule. I think socialism has always and will always degrade its supporters and its opponents.

I do know why Republicans have let prolifers down so many times. I do not really know why Trump has not. Sometimes I think we are looking at greatness and the sight is blinding us all to the obvious.

The Crack Emcee said...

n.n said...

"back when he took up the birther cause vs Obama... It was about being "foreign", not black

Yes. And Clinton before him."

Both sides of whites against us - and both sides clearly tripping on some new and improved madness - but conservative whites, today, will still pretend they have no idea why blacks think as we do - and always want to find an opportunity to punish us for doing so, while openly talking of "plantations" wand how much they hope we join them.

What a clusterfuck.

Molly said...

(eaglebeak)

Good post, Althouse. Thanks.

Narayanan Subramanian said...

Prelude to Civil War II...

Chapter One

https://www.city-journal.org/kanye-west-taylor-swift-16231.html

The Crack Emcee said...

Howard said...

"Your naivety is showing Crack. Trump needs the white nationalists vote way more than the Blacks. He knows how to make them comfortable in their prejudice and hatred so that they buy what he is selling. Of course democrats exaggerate this, so what, that's their job."

No, Howard, it isn't: They're supposed to be BETTER THAN THIS - that's why they're failing. They're betraying their ideals - not black's - so no one has a reason to believe in them. If no one believes in what they stand for, they're only fighting for power and their jobs, and blacks aren't fighting for that - we were never marching for them - we're carrying-on our ancestor's work.

Trump may not know all that, but, he seems to understand the essentials of the American story, and wants to make his contribution.

I definitely want to see him do it.

The Crack Emcee said...

mccullough said...

"Duke v Farrakhan. These guys are cartoon characters"

Any true look at America would reveal that in seconds.

daskol said...

You’re missing out wildswan: Kanye’s put out some great records. He’s been doing many interviews lately, and he’s shown courage in his openness and consistency with his message. He speaks from the heart. This is a fascinating moment and to think it was basically brokered by Scott Adams.

wildswan said...

PS In speaking of Ed Rogers, Jonathan Chait says: "he is a terrible writer whose arguments lack any originality, persuasive power or, quite often, even facial plausibility").

"facial plausability" has no meaning. Ironic to see lack of meaning and lack of grasp of the language in criticism of a writer. And, since when have Republicans worn "checked pants"? Isn't that reference from the 50's to golfing Westchester Republicans - who are now all Democrats? The future is hard for us all to know but the present seems to challenge Mr. Chait.

wildswan said...

daskol said...
You’re missing out wildswan: Kanye’s put out some great records

If you mention one, I will listen. Though I don't think he's put out any records.

Yancey Ward said...

I am going to channel my inner progressive and not take advantage of Crack's obvious mental infirmities.

Does that need a sarcasm tag? I can't tell any longer.

Mary Beth said...

Althouse you parse the words of newspaper reporters and columnists and television commentators with precision and insight that I find so admirable. And then, when it comes to Trump and anything Trump-oriented, you turn a blind eye

Or, maybe she approaches them the same way but your inability to accept that is a problem with your programming, NPChuck.

(I couldn't resist, NPC memes are trending today.)

daskol said...

His latest, Ye, is hypnotic. It’s about a half our long. A meditation on mental health and values.

Yancey Ward said...

Yes, Mary Beth, you have that exactly right. It is Chuck's biggest blind spot.

daskol said...

And love, of course.

Achilles said...

Howard said...
Your naivety is showing Crack. Trump needs the white nationalists vote way more than the Blacks. He knows how to make them comfortable in their prejudice and hatred so that they buy what he is selling. Of course democrats exaggerate this, so what, that's their job.


This shows just how stupid and gullible Howard and the rest of the leftists who watch the media are.

There is no movement of "White Nationalists." Last time they had a "march" hyped by the media for months they couldn't even get 20 people.

There are millions of people that want the government to leave them alone. The progressives who want to use the government to tell people what to do labeled them white nationalists.

The Charlottesville "protest" was organized by an Occupy Wall Street member. The White Nationalist movement is negligible in size.

When there were no white nationalists around the progressives created them and douchebags like Howard lap it up.

And now everyone is seeing through your media hyped charade.

Progressives are Racist.

mockturtle said...

Crack unaccountably asks: Anybody seen a manuscript of American blacks, at any time in this nation's history, living a full lifetime of something resembling happiness?

So unhappiness=slavery? What rubbish! By that criterion, a good portion of the population would be slaves today.

The Crack Emcee said...

Breezy said...

"They are morphing Kanye speak into gibberish."

Kanye speak is gibberish, that's why it's Kanye speak.

"But if you listen differently, you can understand him."

I imagine him as high all-the-time, with an open copy of a Joseph Campbell book near by.

"He’s got his own dialect, in a way."

Nah. Not to me anyway. I like hearing a black dude openly pondering ideas for the first time, though, in the way he does. I'd love to talk with him, but I find he's more open-minded than visionary, so far. That bi-polar disorder gives him a major leg-up when it comes to stepping outside the cultural frame.

Michael K said...

Blogger Howard said...
More insecurity from Doc Mike who must create strawmen to slay along his hero's journey.


Howard, I'm starting to agree with others here that you are just a troll.

Define white nationalist or go away,.

mockturtle said...

I met one former white nationalist in my life. She had been a part of the so-called 'Christian Identity' movement, a racist organization with nothing really to do with Christ. She and her ex propagandized in San Francisco and then moved to the compound that was in North Idaho in the 80's. When I met her, she had renounced white supremacy and become a Mennonite.

daskol said...

Openness is a kind of genius. Germans have a word for that, but I don’t speak German. He’s been very personal and open in his music since his first record, which has held up well.

Achilles said...

The first Civil War happened when Republicans freed black people from their democrat masters by force.

The Second civil war will be caused by democrats lashing out when Black people leave on their own.

It is interesting watching history repeat.

The Crack Emcee said...

Yancey Ward said...

"I wonder whether or not Don Lemon considers himself one of CNN's "House Negroes"?"

No way. He was a trick until the moment the rapper, Talib Kweli, woke him up.

He's never been the same again.

tcrosse said...

Howard, the correct technical term is "Deplorables". It has proven to be persuasive.

daskol said...

He gave a long interview to Charlemagne not too long ago, but really any of his interviews is worth a listen. Youtube is full of them.



The Vault Dweller said...

I've spent some time thinking about the insult Uncle Tom. Uncle Tom is often thrown around whenever there is a not completely lefty African American. I have heard derivations of Uncle Tom for other Minority groups as well, Uncle Chen, Uncle Juan, but I couldn't recall any similar derivation for white people. I pondered about this and realized there was a white people version and it was the term Race Traitor. But the only people who use that term are white supremacist groups. It is an interesting juxtaposition.

daskol said...

Don Lemon’s hatred for Trump is almost scary to watch. He’s really fired up these days—smug and filled with righteous indignation.

Laslo Spatula said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
tcrosse said...

Uncle Tom is often thrown around whenever there is a not completely lefty African American.

Oreo Cookie is another one.

Laslo Spatula said...

Sharp post by Althouse.

I remember Crack voicing his dislike about the 'plantation' analogy years ago. I thought about it at the time, came to the conclusion that I agree.

Even when meant well, it is condescending and patronizing: we acknowledge you when you do what we want*. It removes individual agency while trying to applaud it, because implicit in the words is the view that one is still a slave unless one joins your way of thinking.

Yes: people of all colors can be thought of as a slave to what may hold them behind. But --if a white public school-teacher quits a union teacher gig for a job at a private school -- is he/she "leaving the plantation?" Would it be said precisely that way? Not COULD it be said that way, but would that be the first choice of words? Because if one is black, then it inevitably IS the first choice of words.

I would simply recognize that the movement of the individual's freedom of thought is worthy in all people: applaud those that move forward, and do not define their previous existence by what they may have left behind. Where we are going inevitably matters more than where we are coming from.

Or we could just refer to such people as "leaving the short bus." I'm sure no one would have an issue with that.

(*It also doesn't help that when one talks about a black individual 'leaving the plantation' it is often followed by a comment along the lines of 'if X % of blacks left the Democrats the Democrats would be in real trouble', etc: the individual you just recognized for individual thought is quickly now but a pawn again in the political game, a claimed puzzle piece on your side of the board. Can be tone-deaf, that.)

I am Laslo.

The Crack Emcee said...

wildswan said...

"I will never like a music that calls women ho's and bitches and talks about rape and I probably wouldn't have liked rap and hip hop even if they didn't."

Because only "Hey-hey, fellas, have you heard the news? You know what is back in town!" conveys the proper respect? Y'all should stop.

"I don't know why the Kardashians are popular."

Boo-Tay and The Marketing Momma.

"I don't know why Bruce Jenner became Caitlin."

Extreme confusion.

"I think underpants should be covered and pants should stay up."

So no Superman or Batman.

"I think hysteria is very unpleasant."

I can't believe you said anything realistic.

"I think the way you gain power is the way you will rule."

I don't. Not at all. I think people can change - but there's always outside forces to contend with.

"I think socialism has always and will always degrade its supporters and its opponents."

I do as well, but it's hard to convince people of it when American patriots so regularly betray Democracy and capitalism.

"I do know why Republicans have let prolifers down so many times."

Votes.

"I do not really know why Trump has not."

Same reason, different political climate.

"Sometimes I think we are looking at greatness and the sight is blinding us all to the obvious."

As long as he keeps us out of a war, and doesn't pull a Nixon, he's the best we've ever had.

Seeing Red said...

Both sides of whites against us - and both sides clearly tripping on some new and improved madness - but conservative whites, today, will still pretend they have no idea why blacks think as we do - and always want to find an opportunity to punish us for doing so, while openly talking of "plantations" wand how much they hope we join them.

What a clusterfuck.


I didn’t vote against Barry because he’s black, I voted against him because he’s red.

When one hangs out with the disenfranchised and some of those disenfranchised are marxists; there’s a reason marxists were disenfranchised in the 80s, and I won’t vote for them period. I didn’t vote for him because the Constitutional lawyer said the Bill of Rights is full of negative rights and he only wants to “help” people.

I said to my husband in 2007 he was going to set back racial relations and I was right.

The Crack Emcee said...

wildswan said...
daskol said...
You’re missing out wildswan: Kanye’s put out some great records

"If you mention one, I will listen. Though I don't think he's put out any records."

BLINKING WILDLY

The Crack Emcee said...

mockturtle said...

"So unhappiness=slavery? What rubbish!"

Good thing I never said it.

Francisco D said...

This shows just how stupid and gullible Howard and the rest of the leftists who watch the media are. There is no movement of "White Nationalists." Last time they had a "march" hyped by the media for months they couldn't even get 20 people.

If there were no White Nationalists, Howard and his lefty friends would have to invent them.

Narayanan Subramanian said...

Is bipolar same as *on the one hand, on the other hand as in Fiddler On The Roof*

Earnest Prole said...

Trump and Kanye, Trump and Putin, Trump and the Korean Fat Boy: Have there ever been three more compelling bromances?

Rob McLean said...

"I Have Found America’s Worst Columnist"

He was there in the mirror all the time, fella.

Freeman Hunt said...

I'd heard that West had made a crazy, incoherent rant, but I watched it, and that's not what I saw. He was understandably nervous and rambled a bit, but I had no problem understanding what he was getting at. He certainly didn't sound crazy. People see what they want to see.

anti-de Sitter space said...

"He gave a long interview to Charlemagne"

The B Club w/ 69 was more special.

IMHO.

Laslo Spatula said...

A shorter version of my 2:56 comment:

If I got the chance to meet Jim Brown I would NOT ask him "when he left the plantation."

I WOULD ask him about "Slaughter's Big Rip-Off" though: that was a fucking great movie.

I am Laslo.

Ralph L said...

The existence of vouchers may lead to more parents becoming more involved in their kids' education, which is more important for learning than the quality of the schools and is also a driver for their improvement.

The problem is bad kids, not bad schools.

That and dumbing down the curriculum so no child is left behind with an F.

Narayanan Subramanian said...

Would be interesting to see where cultural fault lines lie wrt resistance for ..
?Dialogue? that Crack desires cannot take place until there is National Museum of Slavery to serve as Nation's Dungeon, a la Smithsonian attic.

The Vault Dweller said...

Blogger The Crack Emcee said...

I like hearing a black dude openly pondering ideas for the first time, though, in the way he does. I'd love to talk with him, but I find he's more open-minded than visionary, so far.


This seems like the correct take on it. I think Kanye has been hearing some right wing ideas for the first time and started to think about them. And they probably feel good and exciting to him, but he still probably hasn't thought enough about them. The right really wants to have a popular young black celebrity on their side, so they are more than willing to ascribe much higher certitude to Kanye's positions than he has himself. You can see a similar occurrence with the rise in popularity of Candace Owens. She blew up because the right was really excited to have a young attractive Black woman 'on their side'. To her credit though, I saw an interview with her on I think Rubin Report where she admits that lots of these conservative ideas are relatively new to her so she really isn't so sure where she stands on all positions. Which I think is a great sign for her personally and for the right because when it comes down to actually sorting out ideas, I think the right wins on the majority of the positoins.

The worst thing the right can do now is to try to rush and force some sort of Black sea change. The right should take it's time and just honestly put forth their positions and arguments to Black Americans, and also make sure to listen to and address the feedback and concerns they hear. When that means conceding areas that don't work well or are shaky they should do that. The best the right can hope for and should aim for is not to be seen as right on all issues, but to be right on most of them and more importantly be the clearly better choice than the left.

The Crack Emcee said...

Seeing Red said...

"I didn’t vote against Barry because he’s black, I voted against him because he’s red."

That's fine, but not fair - in the case of blacks - any more than it was in the case of South Africa. Whites chased blacks into socialist arms with their racism. They have no one to blame but themselves for the fall-out and what happens from there.

"When one hangs out with the disenfranchised and some of those disenfranchised are marxists; there’s a reason marxists were disenfranchised in the 80s, and I won’t vote for them period."

Notice - the whole racial aspect disappears when you tell it. That makes it too simple to be true. And now you become the problem for not understanding it further.

" I didn’t vote for him because the Constitutional lawyer said the Bill of Rights is full of negative rights and he only wants to “help” people."

That's a fine reason.

"I said to my husband in 2007 he was going to set back racial relations and I was right."

Not really - whites had something to do with it, too, y'know? Actually, I have a distinct feeling you don't.

traditionalguy said...

Dragon Energy recognizes Dragon Energy. Attack dogs onCNN sees a minstrel show by a man was once mis-diagnosed as Manic by a non Energy Dragon Doctor. Everybody needs to listen to what Kanye says and slowly figure it out. Trump gets it as it comes out and just smiles.

The Crack Emcee said...

Laslo Spatula said...
A shorter version of my 2:56 comment:

If I got the chance to meet Jim Brown I would NOT ask him "when he left the plantation."


BWAAAAAAAAAAA-HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!

wildswan said...

daskol said...
His latest, Ye, is hypnotic. It’s about a half our long

So I listened to the first three songs. My opinion: guys like a kind of talk which women do not. Locker room talk. Army barracks. Ye talk. It's better for us women not to hear certain modes, even if pretending we like it is career enhancing. Jordan Petersen says that we have not yet negotiated how men and women can work together and men liking things and ways of talking that women do not is part of the unsolved problem. In the old days certain separations meant we women didn't have to listen to this stuff. These days your career might depend on pretending you like it equally with the guys. But I can assure you that equality does not mean liking Ye talk or Patrice O'Neil either or listening to them. The outcome of that "equality" of forced listening is these screaming harridans running through the streets with their own ugly talk and screams. Some things must stay in gender. What the ear doesn't hear, the heart doesn't grieve over.

Laslo Spatula said...

And -- regarding White House guests Jim Brown and Kanye -- my 3:14 comment could easily lead me into discussing how the rap culture can be traced in significant ways to 70s Blaxploitation cinema in art, commerce, and being co-opted into white culture.

Maybe another day.

I am Laslo.

Guildofcannonballs said...

Like I have said, relativity.

Climate Chaos = Gay Marriage.

If shit were perfect either way before, well in that case I can see irrational fear of change, but with pretty low standards (Carrington v. Abortion respectively) this unstable system undergoing evolutions of non-symmetric change isn't as bad as some hope/advertise.

anti-de Sitter space said...

69 = John 13:34 = https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oDiQQtULl4g

AJ Lynch said...

Hah a "Trump's Genius" tag will make many librul heads spontaneously explode. So I bid RIP to Ritmo, Inga, Howard et al.

n.n said...

guys like a kind of talk which women do not. Locker room talk

A word of caution on color judgments. Men are not a monolithic bloc. I presume and observe that neither are women.

Tank said...

If Trump, with the help of guys like West and Brown, could bring a substantial percentage of Black people into the Republican camp, that would be BIG, and probably would be really good for many Black people.

The Crack Emcee said...

The Vault Dweller said...

"I think Kanye has been hearing some right wing ideas for the first time and started to think about them."

This last couple of weeks, I watched several documentaries, each, about George Washington, John Adams, Thomas Jefferson, Alexander Hamilton, the Louisiana Purchase, Haiti,, Gladstone and Disraeli, the Zulu Wars, and Henry Ford. To fill-in what I know elsewhere.

I'm reading Christopher Hitchens' collection of essays "Arguably" right now.

I have two friends who are kinda interested in such things, offline, if I make them interesting ("Stalin was gangsta as FUCK!") but, mostly, I'm stuck with you freaks and the Democrat losers of Facebook.

Yes, I'd love to talk to Kanye.



Guildofcannonballs said...

"As for West, he clearly sees the value in contrarianism- something most people undervalue, including, it seems now, Taylor Swift."

By virtue of your fact most people undervalue it I would argue it isn't undervalued, whatever it may happen to be.

Otherwise Adam Smith was (and natch is) more wrong than right.

The Crack Emcee said...

The Vault Dweller said....

"I saw an interview with [Candance Owens] on I think Rubin Report where she admits that lots of these conservative ideas are relatively new to her so she really isn't so sure where she stands on all positions."

That's like Diamond & Silk: BLM until Trump won.

Annie C said...

I would like to talk with Kanye

n.n said...

this unstable system undergoing evolutions of non-symmetric change isn't as bad as some hope/advertise

Maybe not. Evolution or chaos is not a progressive process, but a catastrophic social climate, a correction of the overleveraged economy, could and has occurred with sudden and explosive force. Still, there is room for cautious optimism.

wild chicken said...

Trump ultimately did us a service, by addressing and defusing the Birther issue when he did. There are still lingering doubts, but most of us moved on.

We don't need the instability of a disqualifying fact left up in the air like that.

daskol said...

Kanye uses bad words but what he’s getting at in his lyrics is all good. It’s a dirty world we live in. Kanye just sings about it, making his tenderer sentiments really striking.

Guildofcannonballs said...

"Howard said...
More insecurity from Doc Mike who must create strawmen to slay along his hero's journey.

10/13/18, 1:31 PM"

Maybe, but his "have you held a human heart in your hand" line was worthy of the Great Stephen Cooper, let's not forget.

I don't mind mostly if heros are arrogant narcissist assholes, although I prefer humility in all things. To each his own, and I ain't no damn hero, so how could I know what it takes to be one?

The end incorporates the means taken to achieve them into the end's definition ideally, the means are incorporated into the end's meaning transparently in a perfect theory, ergo by some measures justified conceptions are more than a religious mantra sans God.

wild chicken said...

until Trump won

Lots of money and exposure out there for blacks who can play the Republican game, for sure.

The Vault Dweller said...

Lots of money and exposure out there for blacks who can play the Republican game, for sure.

I think we are at or fast approaching the point of strongly diminishing returns at this point. The earlier adopters will probably have an advantage and newcomers will need an additional angle.

Laslo Spatula said...

For those who talk about the cynical 'where-else-are-you-going-to-go?' Democrats' relationship with blacks: just remember the Republican Party just a few years ago, BTE time (Before Trump Epoch).

They were certainly a party of cynical lip-service-but-no-real-representation in their own right.

Before BTE, the lights were off in the DC kitchen, and the cockroaches ruled the floor.

Then the light switch came on, turned on by a guy with orange hair and a can of Raid.

I am Laslo.

JAORE said...

"Can we make fun of Leftwing, hippie, whites also being stuck on the Democrat plantation?"

One difference seems to be how the various groups in the left coalition react to lefty actions. Hard to see why open borders don't hurt low income Americans. Poor whites (or the conservative spokesmen claiming they represent them) object and are ridiculed. Poor blacks may object, but the voices are never (allowed to be?) heard.

Could be the designated spokesmen, Sharpton, Jackson, Waters, etc are not reflecting actual concerns.

Many black families are religious. Issues like gay marriage/cake baking may well play badly in black community, but we never hear the irritation. Yet another left constituency, the LBQT (and any other letters you'd care to add) are placed front and center whenever such issues come about. Conservative voices are heard, but the media filters them into the bigot/STFU pile.

Of course there are millions of different black voices, just as there are millions of white voices. They aren't reasonably represented by one on the left and one on the right. But there we are.

Guildofcannonballs said...

Andi Spaced-Ace Sadist de Sade is really making a lot of sense these days.

Kinda crazy a disordered mind like mine notices though..

Why don't smart, organized, orderly ordered minds understand his peculiar and amazing genius?

That's what amazes us, erhh, I mean me. Me. It amazes me.

exhelodrvr1 said...

what the author said is not that different from Lemon's comments? Really?

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