From "Jerry Seinfeld on Louis C.K., Roseanne and Tense Times in Comedy" (NYT).
As for Louis C.K.:
We know the routine: the person does something wrong. The person’s humiliated. They’re exiled. They suffer, we want them to suffer. We love the tumble, we love the crash and bang of the fall. And then we love the crawl-back. The grovel. Are you going to grovel? How long are you going to grovel? Are you going to cry? Are you going to Jimmy Swaggart? And people, I think, figured they had that coming with Louie — he owes us that. We, the court of public opinion, decided if he’s going to come back, he’d better show a lot of pain.We love the crawl-back. That's very Jerry. He goes on to observe that Louis C.K., by just going to comedy clubs again and doing his act, denied people the satisfaction of the crawl back.
About Roseanne:
I would say about Roseanne, I never saw anything that bad happen from a finger-tap on a screen. A whole career: gone. That’s an aspect of this unease we feel, that you just wake up — “Oh, by the way, the Lincoln Memorial’s gone.” “What?” “Yeah, they took it down. They found out Lincoln was fooling around and they took it down.” “Oh, my God. All right, I guess I have to adjust to that. I really liked the Lincoln Memorial.”More generally:
[H]umans — we have an abusive relationship with each other. We hate other people. We despise them. And then we see somebody play a beautiful piano concerto and we go, “Oh, people are the best.” They get us right back for more abuse...
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Sadly, I'm pretty sure that down the road a bit, the left really will want to take down the Lincoln Memorial. He was a Republican after all, so why should he have one? And now that the left is busily rehabilitating Hitler ("Hitler had his faults, but he was no Trump!"), how long until they come out again for slavery? A memorial to Lincoln would be a bit inconvenient for that coming narrative.
Less than 10 years, maybe?
That's why Seinfeld is so great. He's very political, but in a way that doesn't come across as political. We're human, we make mistakes, we do and say dumb things. But that's fine, we should be allowed to say and do dumb things.
Imagine a perfect person, someone who never makes a mistake or does the wrong thing. Now imagine being friends with that person. Can you be friends with a perfect person?
It's our imperfections that make us interesting, human, and fun to be around.
W.C.Fields was good going after a little girl to kill her and is restrained by some woman. Which film it was I don't know.
One of his movies had a cafe with a big sign...
Black Pussy
camera scrolls down
Cat Cafe
W.C. Fields pulls a tooth.
Sanity is so surprising.
Perfection, Jerry.
One of the biggest problems with our current state of unbelievable affluence (from an historic and first world perspective anyway) is that words have gradually become as significant or more significant than deeds. For many people, what you say can trump what you've actually done. If you don't present the correct thoughts to the world you must be ostracized, shunned, excommunicated. Maybe it's always been this way, but I think that back in olden days we were too busy worrying about survival to concern ourselves what someone else said.
I don't particularly like this state of affairs, but I don't see it getting better until people become more forgiving. And that won't happen until enough of the right people, the influential people, are burned badly by these new rules.
i mistook my hat.
Ha.
35 cents for a meal. 4 cigars for a nickel.
Wow.
Fields was comedic genius. I’ll watch “It’s a Gift” anytime it’s on. Politically Correct? Not exactly. Funny, yes.
I remember that during a disagreement you used to be able to say "It's a free country I am entitled to my opinion."
It is no longer a free country. You are only entitled to hold the correct opinion.
I had a strongly-worded debate with a young far-left relative (read antifa...) one time. At one point in the conversation, and after maneuvering the dialogue so as to create a trap for him, I asked quite frankly what would make him happy? What would be enough? I had prepared for his response and threw what he had previously been talking about class, hierarchy, compound interest on private property, etc. back in his face...
His response when confronted with a legit contradiction was priceless and he spilled the beans.
He would never be happy. The people like him would never be happy. Their political lifestyles and their political reactions (politics being personal) evolve and generate from a deep-seated self-hatred misanthropism and a desire to get revenge for being born.
That is where the venom comes from. Why a click is so dangerous and why our political discourse feels like dangling a foot off a precipice. You can't help him. You can't help them. These are people that are only happy as long as hand grenades are being thrown because the antagonism provides the purpose for their lives and the distraction from how crappy their lives are.
These people have always existed. Related to comedy...I have realized these people do not laugh genuinely. Their humor is of the John Stewart variety, the gotcha variety, the smug variety. It's why the NPC thing going on riles them up so. They can't laugh at themselves. How can you when you see yourself as a perfect creature on a holy crusade.
Now imagine that scene done by Jack Nicholson.
Isn't the lovable drunk one of those tropes that's not supposed to be funny anymore?
Perfection, Jerry.
Gold, Jerry! Gold!
Comparing Rosanne to C.K. is a little Odd. Rosanne just tweeted out a sentence that the SJW's at ABC disliked.
C.K. harassed women and exposed himself - we're talking about a criminal act.
I'm surprised the left hasn't banished Jerry for not bowing down to the PC culture. I guess if enough people find you funny enough...
My favorite Fields scenes are both from It's a Gift. One was the bowling ball on the stairs scene and the other was the blind man with the cane in the store. He was a master, unparalleled, IMO.
"Once ... in the wilds of Afghanistan, I lost my corkscrew, and we were forced to live on nothing but food and water for days."
Nonapod said...words have gradually become as significant or more significant than deeds. For many people, what you say can trump what you've actually done.
That's because it's easier to puff ourselves up with delusions of greatness with words than with deeds. Committing good acts is hard and sometimes means interrupting our cushy lives.
It's easier to just define ourselves as good people because we believe the right things. Those other people, they're bad because they believe bad things. And because we haven't done anything to bring about the better world we argue for, we can't make allowances for good deeds.
It's a very small step from there to not punishing bad deeds if they are committed by a "good" person.
I had an experience like that on Amtrack. We got the Menu and asked for this dish, and that dish, and were told it "Wasn't available".
I finally, spoke up for myself and 3 dinner companions and said "We're going about this the wrong way. Instead, of us asking you, why don't *you* tell us what available for dinner."
It turns out they had 2 dishes. Both cooked only one way - well done! And the Amtrak waitress wasn't the least bit sorry either.
“Oh, by the way, the Lincoln Memorial’s gone.” “What?” “Yeah, they took it down."
Everyone knows this is going to happen with the Jefferson Memorial, right? Dead, white slave owner?
rehajm said...I'm surprised the left hasn't banished Jerry for not bowing down to the PC culture. I guess if enough people find you funny enough...
I think there're a few things behind it. First, he's huge. Seinfeld could not have built his career today. Second, he speaks to the fear many public figures hold and they want him to keep speaking. Third, he does it in such a gentle manner that he doesn't give SJWs many openings to come after him.
Do you have a distaste for college crowds?
I’ve never experienced that.
In the new season of “Comedians in Cars Getting Coffee,” you say, “It’s so weird that colleges have become places of restricted thought, as opposed to thought freedom.” No. I said, “I heard someone say——” That’s what I said. It got changed to, “I said.”
Seinfeld misquoted, or walking back from what he actually believes?
Jerry Seinfeld: College students don't know what the hell they're talking about
Entertainment Weekly, DANA ROSE FALCONE, June 08, 2015
Like Chris Rock and Larry the Cable Guy, Jerry Seinfeld avoids doing shows on college campuses. And while talking with ESPN’s Colin Cowherd on Thursday, the comedian revealed why: College kids today are too politically correct.
“I hear that all the time,” Seinfeld said on The Herd with Colin Cowherd. “I don’t play colleges, but I hear a lot of people tell me, ‘Don’t go near colleges. They’re so PC.'”
Seinfeld says teens and college-aged kids don’t understand what it means to throw around certain politically-correct terms. “They just want to use these words: ‘That’s racist;’ ‘That’s sexist;’ ‘That’s prejudice,'” he said. “They don’t know what the hell they’re talking about.”
The funnyman went on to recount a conversation he and his wife had with their 14-year-old daughter, which he believes proved his point.
“My wife says to her, ‘Well, you know, in the next couple years, I think maybe you’re going to want to be hanging around the city more on the weekends, so you can see boys,'” Seinfeld recalled. “You know what my daughter says? She says, ‘That’s sexist.’”
__________
Got that:
Seinfeld never "experienced" a "distaste" for college crowds (but only because he never plays them, not because they are not in fact distasteful venues for comedic freedom).
Seinfeld only "heard someone say --". So what is Seinfeld's opinion, how ever it was formed? No opinion?
Disappointingly, Seinfeld seems in full retreat on the subject of comedic freedom.
I listen to old comedy shows on Sirius XM sometimes. Far funnier and much more clever than today's stuff.
And one thing I notice is that back then, they laughed at the people they loved. Just listen to Jack Benny and Rochester. Or Miss Brooks and Mr. Conklin. Today, they laugh at the people they hate.
Yeah, some of the old radio shows are very funny. W.C. Fields used to have a "feud" with Charlie McCarthy. Benny had one with Fred Allen.
Good clean fun.
"Disappointingly, Seinfeld seems in full retreat on the subject of comedic freedom."
Comedians worth $100 million aren't freedom fighters. Seinfeld just likes telling jokes.
Besides, almost all comedians are liberal/Left and they find it impossible to really go after the Hard Left. All their hatred/dislike is aimed at the Right. Its why so many Socialist-liberal regimes in the 20th Century ended up as Commie dictatorships.
And why the Liberal campuses just keep getting more and more SJW crazy.
Huh. I saw Jerry at Brandeis but it was in the late '90s. Guess he stopped...
And then we love the crawl-back. The grovel. Are you going to grovel?
Actually "we" don't love that crap at all, so "we" have never watched any of the famous groveling performances, and "we" wish they'd never grovel or apologize in the first place because it makes "us" slightly embarrassed to be a member of the same species as these pitiful creatures who grovel over trivia as if they were whipped dogs crawling back to their vomit.
we have an abusive relationship with each other
Enjoying other peoples' groveling is sadism, and he should quit saying "we" when he means "I", as in "I, Jerry Seinfeld, am abusive to other people and enjoy their suffering."
“Yeah, they took it down. They found out Lincoln was fooling around and they took it down.” “Oh, my God. All right, I guess I have to adjust to that. I really liked the Lincoln Memorial.”
Not so far fetched with today's thought-crime leftwing totalitarian take-over.
Lucid-Ideas,
I believe you have found the critical bit of information. The people (largely on the Left) who feel angst about growing up rich (READ: American) and who know they don't deserve it (Cue Clint Eastwood from Unforgiven.)will never forgive themselves. And therefore they will never be satisfied.
It is existential.
When would feminists declare they have won their battles and go home? Answer: when men are both manly and beta male pansy asses, simultaneously, no matter the provocations suffered, i.e. never.
Seinfeld seems pretty squared away. It helps to have $700 Million in the bank, but that much wealth usually makes Hollywood types beer left outta guilt and/or boredom.
Disappointingly, Seinfeld seems in full retreat on the subject of comedic freedom.
Did you not just read the quotes that had him walking through a PC minefield? Anything but mob-approved takes on Roseann and Louis CK can get a comic attacked. See Norm MacDonald.
I think it was pretty good for a guy who would like to keep telling jokes for a living.
Enjoying other peoples' groveling is sadism, and he should quit saying "we" when he means "I", as in "I, Jerry Seinfeld, am abusive to other people and enjoy their suffering."
Pretty sure he means "pop culture." Nothing in his 30 years in comedy would indicate he enjoys the Fallen Celebrity routine.
Lincoln's inlaws, the Kentucky Todd's, some of who lived in the Whitehouse during the Civil War, were slave owners from Kentucky. Time to burn the place down to rid America of the taint of Lincoln's aquiecense.
Jerry's acquired a lot of wisdom over the years from watching people, in order to develop his "observational" act. That ability to translate what he saw into an act is/was subtle genius. I'd pay to see him if he came to town. Recently Dennis Miller did a private gig for us in Reno, and he was consciously trying NOT to offend people. He started off talking about how hard it is to do comedy in the current climate. Sure enough one guy in the crowd yelled "Nazi!" when Miller brought up Trump, and later when he mildly tweaked Hillary's ethics two young ladies at my table stood up yelled "FUCK YOU!" and fled the room. It really is tough to do comedy nowadays.
Was there a WC Fields where he drove around smacking into other autos?
rehajm said...
Huh. I saw Jerry at Brandeis but it was in the late '90s. Guess he stopped...
Although a college gym, not really a college show. Professional promoters rented venue and booked appearance as part of corporate-sponsored tour. Ticketmaster, not on-campus sales. If you remember, Ellen opened for him.
Lucid-Ideas said...
He would never be happy. The people like him would never be happy. Their political lifestyles and their political reactions (politics being personal) evolve and generate from a deep-seated self-hatred misanthropism and a desire to get revenge for being born.
I have always said that this scene from the move Tombstone perfectly summed up SJW's:
Wyatt Earp: What makes a man like Ringo, Doc? What makes him do the things he does?
Doc Holliday: A man like Ringo has got a great big hole, right in the middle of him. He can never kill enough, or steal enough, or inflict enough pain to ever fill it.
Wyatt Earp: What does he need?
Doc Holliday: Revenge.
Wyatt Earp: For what?
Doc Holliday: Bein' born.
NorthOf,
You have the measure of it.
People do suck, as in are terrible. Not everyone all the time, but we all are terrible to each other at one time or another. Some more often than others. People would suck less if they just confined their concerns to themselves.
-sw
EDH said...
Disappointingly, Seinfeld seems in full retreat on the subject of comedic freedom.
CJinPA said...
Did you not just read the quotes that had him walking through a PC minefield? Anything but mob-approved takes on Roseann and Louis CK can get a comic attacked. See Norm MacDonald.
I think it was pretty good for a guy who would like to keep telling jokes for a living.
I did: Seinfeld deflects by talking about everything but comedic freedom, which really involves the literal "heckler's veto".
You can’t do whatever you want. You can only do what works — if you want to have a career. What I do onstage is what the past 300 audiences decided worked.
A bit may work fabulously on 98% of a live audience, but what role should a partisan or ideologically-driven 2% play in not only in booing you off a particular stage, but forever stigmatizing you as a person and ruining your career?
So you don’t object to playing colleges? No! I play colleges all the time.
Compare with 2015 interview, above. "I don’t play colleges."
I have a vague memory of his show getting in trouble for showing disrespect to the Puerto Rican flag. Back then it was just trouble. Nowadays it would be career suicide. You can go all kaepernick on the Stars and Stripes, but the Puerto Rican flag is sacrosanct. He was fortunate to be able to walk away from that joke.
What "The Diner Sketch" most reminded me of, was ordering food across Yurp - a never-ending nightmare of learning what they didn't have.
Also, I enjoyed the nobility WC and that woman had, as it was insisted blacks have, during that time (and this one). Impressive. Any black person who acted like that woman would've been a candidate for death.
It's still all about Louie, is it? Do we even care who the women are or what they think of all this? No, not really - no more than he did. They're just a fact to be nudged aside so we have a chance to talk more about him. It's weird how that works.
I'm still "stuck" on Jerry Seinfeld, getting frustrated that Chris Rock uses black reference points in conversation, because - as Chris Rock so eloquently said in reply - "I'm black, Jerry." Nobody needs that kind of shit.
W.C. Fields is mostly talking to himself. His perfect foils (most often women) are people who for whatever reason are on his wavelength, who hear and react to his barbs that go right past most others.
Bimbos,
That might have been the car chase scene from "The Bank Dick" I think. Lots of muttered asides by Fields. One point he says "When we're done the resale value of this car will be nil". I think the Popeye cartoon took a lot of Fields' asides, or the styling of them, and used them during his fights with Bluto.
I enjoyed watching all the episodes of Comedians in Cars. He and his friends discuss and philosophize about the craft of comedy. There's one school that believes the point of comedy is to make people laugh, and there's another that believes the point if comedy is to make people laugh at Trump. This latter school of comedy dominates today, but Jerry and his friends present a spirited defense of their rather outmoded style of comedy.
Crack,
I am old enough to remember our local emporium that employed a black elevator operator. She was very like this waitress. She told an abled body person (not just the young ones) that they needed to USE THE STAIRS. When she did allow someone on, she was none to nice about it. She worked there for many, many years, until the new fangled elevator was installed. She was seen as local color (no pun intended) and was not to be trifled with.
NorthOfTheOneOhOne
Wow. Yeah I had to look that up. Must've seeped into my subconscious.
Regardless, that's the meat and potatoes of what I'm trying to get across. My point being that we should stop focusing on doing or trying to do what appeases these people. They will never be satiated. The country is divided. It will get worse.
There is not cease-fire. No treaty. No 38th Parallel. It is and will always be Bellum Omnia Contra Omnes, so embrace it and don thy armor for battle.
Without victory, there can be no peace, so there won't be.
This is one of my favorite Fields bits. I use it when dealing with overly officious restaurant Hosts. If the Host is especially irksome I repeat when my name is called for seating.
One way I divide what I read or see is - is this On Today's Times Point? which includes stuff from other times that informs Today's Time's Point or cools the fever Today's Time's Point is inducing. Or - is this good stuff from Off The Point? Althouse usually has some of both.
Good stuff from Off The Time's Point? For instance I've been reading biographies of Lord Randolph Churchill, Lord Curzon, Milner, Balfour, Lord Salisbury. They all had to do with colonialism, empire and the conservative party. You can sort of compare the Globos of today to these imperialists of yesterday which is strange because the Globos are leftys but mainly it's all unrelated to Today's Time's Point. Comedians from Off The Point can be strangely strangely On The Point by being Off The Point. Which is funny but "we are not amused" though we ARE amused.
Lincoln Memorial: Canada has seen the removal of one statue of John A. Macdonald, our first Prime Minister. I didn't really see that coming--basically because of overall government treatment of indigenous people; Macdonald was all in favour of settlement of the West, hence hostile to the legitimate interests of aboriginals, etc. This was in British Columbia, where a lot of First Nations have never signed treaties, still occupy their original land, etc.
W.C. Fields in non-too-classy coffee shop: the flies get the best of everything. Reminds me of a joke from an old ethnic joke book. Russians under the Soviets. There's a rumour that food will available on a particular day. A huge line forms while it is still dark. People stamping their feet, slapping themselves to stay warm. Day breaks, more hours go by. A Commissar finally appears: "Comrades, there is not enough food for everyone. The Jews must go home immediately." A few people leave, crowd remains much the same. More hours later: "Everyone under the age of 65 must go home." More hours: "Only veterans of the Great Patriotic War can remain; everyone else must go home." Finally, with only a few freezing old men left: "There is no food; everyone must go home at once." One old guy says to another: "It's always the same; the Jews get the best of everything."
The car crashes are a vignette from “If I had a Million”. A dying millionaire decides to give away his fortune to total strangers. Fields and Alison Skipworth play a couple who, after buying their first new car, are run off the road by some “road hogs”. When they get their million they buy a fleet of cars and proceed to run all the road hogs they encounter into the ditch. Priceless .
Lucid-Ideas said... @9:53
Spot-on.
The audience for the Daily Show doesn't watch to laugh at Trevor Noah's jokes. They applaud him because he hates the same guy they hate.
rcocean said...
"Disappointingly, Seinfeld seems in full retreat on the subject of comedic freedom."
Comedians worth $100 million aren't freedom fighters. Seinfeld just likes telling jokes.
______________
"Not that there's anything wrong with that."
It's not his job to stand-up for all comedians (he "doesn't even really work here").
But there is a fair amount of dissembling in his "tippy-toe, tippy-toe" around the subject.
Like "making-out during Schindler's list", which he is free to do. It just leave me disappointed.
[Yes, four Seinfeld references.]
Partisan applause breaks have replaced laughter, and ruined comedy. It doesn't just affect Noah, Maher, and Colbert, but even formerly non-political comedians such as Kimmel, Fallon, and Corden.
I love the actress who plays the straight-"man" in this clip. She's perfect in the part.
"Now imagine that scene done by Jack Nicholson."
Oh God, that horrible Boomer favorite. The 'woman make me a sannwich" scene.
People LOVE that scene, I hate it. What snotty behavior!
The scene is only tolerable because the waitress is an unlikable older woman who behaves in a stuck-up pompous manner. if you put the Fields Sketch waitress in "Five easy pieces" it wouldn't work.
She's supposed to be a Howard Johnson waitress, who needs tips, but she acts like a stuck-up HS Principle or a worker at the DMV.
She's really a stand-in for all those rule bound teachers who didn't let the young boomers do what they want, when they wanted it. So, Nicholson gets to be abusive and nasty, and sweep the dishes off the table (who picks up after him?) and we're supposed to applaud.
I'm still "stuck" on Jerry Seinfeld, getting frustrated that Chris Rock uses black reference points in conversation, because - as Chris Rock so eloquently said in reply - "I'm black, Jerry." Nobody needs that kind of shit.
I thought it was one of Seinfeld's better conversations. Chris Rock is funny, when he stops shouting.
"gunny used to say, to the chronic fuckups, Ya Hate Yerself, Bitch"
Some would learn from that.
rcocean
"She's really a stand-in for all those rule bound teachers who didn't let the young boomers do what they want, when they wanted it."
Is this shallow codswallop what you took from the film? Western civilization has been debating motivation, morals and personal ethics since the dawn of said civilization; see Plato's Republic). Samuel Clements had a few interesting thoughts on the subject that still hold up quite well.
Chris Rock gave me a theory that in the old days, when you’d go see Neil Young or Jimi Hendrix, you saw the whole artist. Now, most music artists, that person’s talent is just a component of what they’re making.
A very apt point.
Of course, people were more willing to let Hendrix turn off the microphone and go home after the set was over.
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