September 16, 2018

"The law of closure states that individuals perceive objects such as shapes, letters, pictures, etc., as being whole when they are not complete."

"Specifically, when parts of a whole picture are missing, our perception fills in the visual gap. Research shows that the reason the mind completes a regular figure that is not perceived through sensation is to increase the regularity of surrounding stimuli. For example, the figure that depicts the law of closure portrays what we perceive as a circle on the left side of the image and a rectangle on the right side of the image. However, gaps are present in the shapes. If the law of closure did not exist, the image would depict an assortment of different lines with different lengths, rotations, and curvatures—but with the law of closure, we perceptually combine the lines into whole shapes."



From the Wikipedia entry on Gestalt psychology, which I'm reading because I looked up "closure" in the OED and saw that it was a concept in Gestalt psychology. I looked up "closure" in the OED, because I'd just watched an old episode of "Friends" — "The One Where Ross Finds Out" (Season 2, Episode 7 (1995)) — and the word "closure" — a vogue word at the time, I think — was used to great comic effect.



And that's an answer to the question I asked 2 days ago, "What TV sitcom has ever had a character who has been presented and developed with real depth?" I said, "I'm asking the question because I'm starting to watch an old TV series that someone else has said they think has characters that are explored with real depth." The old series is "Friends," and the "someone else" is my son John.

261 comments:

1 – 200 of 261   Newer›   Newest»
Narayanan said...

Wondering what law gestaltian would closure on if line segments don't align,(different angles) and arcs are flipped about.

Lucien said...

Well, if you consider “Dexter” to be a sitcom . .

Bruce Hayden said...

I am not sure that I would call this a "law", but rather a highly developed portion of our brains devoted to vision processing. This is something that we, as a species, do better than most other species. My bet though is that our ability in this regard is not significantly better than that of our closest Great Ape relatives, and esp our close arboreal relatives, the Chimps and Bonobos (since my guess is much of that ability evolved when our ancestors were arboreal). We see those objects as solid, because most often, when we see a broken shape like those illustrated, there is a solid shape behind other objects (ancestrally such as leaves) breaking up the outline.

LincolnTf said...

I was just thinking about closures before I clicked to Althouse. There was a fatal shark attack at the Cape yesterday, first fatality from shark attack since 1936. Last month a swimmer was badly injured a few miles from yesterday's attack. Anyway, a faction of residents is campaigning for swim enclosures to protect the beaches. I understand the theory, but the ocean is a vast and changing beast, especially on yhe Atlantic coastline off of Cape Cod. I'm not sure what kind of barrier would be effwctive, if any.

AllenS said...

Aren't all of the characters in Friends dysfunctional?

Wince said...

"A-B-C. Always be closing. Always. Be. Closing."

stlcdr said...

LincolnTf said...
... shark attack.... I'm not sure what kind of barrier would be effwctive, if any.


Especially since sharks can get into shark cages.

stlcdr said...

Wondering what law gestaltian would closure on if line segments don't align,(different angles) and arcs are flipped about.

A horse!

A butterfly!

Trump riding a nuclear bomb while eating a double-cone!

Fernandinande said...

Specifically, when parts of a whole picture are missing, our perception fills in the visual gap.

I'm sure everyone sees the gaps quite clearly unless they have some visual problem.

what we perceive as a circle on the left side of the image and a rectangle on the right side of the image

Nobody "perceives" that; people imagine a circle and rectangle and see that it has parts missing, which makes them not circles or rectangles.

Curious George said...

"I'm asking the question because I'm starting to watch an old TV series that someone else has said they think has characters that are explored with real depth." The old series is "Friends," and the "someone else" is my son John."

Wow.

The Crack Emcee said...

Phoebe is evil and almost always the catalyst for evil to occur.

tim in vermont said...

Hah! Friends, somehow I knew it. My comments on Friends in the other thread stand.

"Always Be Closing"

There's another saying, "You've struck oil! Stop drilling!"

tim in vermont said...

The most unbelievable thing about Friends was the finale, [Do we need spoiler alerts still for a '90s sitcom?] when they walked away from a rent controlled apartment like that in Manhattan.

tim in vermont said...

Phoebe is evil and almost always the catalyst for evil to occur.

Hah! That would be your point of view. As a character in a work of fiction, Phoebe is great.

Rory said...

"Wow"

Yep.

Maybe it was a joke - a 236-episode search for depth?

Laslo Spatula said...

"Phoebe is evil and almost always the catalyst for evil to occur."

And Rachel is lustful and almost always in a state of arousal because you can usually see her nipples poking through her tops.

I am Laslo.

tcrosse said...

A character explored at real depth is Lloyd Bridges in Sea Hunt.

Bruce Hayden said...

Why do I think that this is an evolutionary adaptation? One reason is that you see these shapes instinctively, and have to work a little bit to not see them. The reason that I kept emphasizing arboreal is that this ability to see shapes, despite them being partially hidden, would seem more helpful in an arboreal existence, than in our later evolution on the savannah. Think of it, possibly, as the ability to accurately predict shapes partially obscured by leaves and other objects. That we do this essentially automatically suggests to me that there was a definite evolutionary reason to be able to do this analysis quickly, and fairly accurately, such as there being a tree limb between the two short segments of limb glimpsed among the leaves of a tree. Or maybe the middle of a snake between the two pieces that you could see through the leaves.

tim in vermont said...

I have binge-watched the entire series, as I have said before, it boils down to "Breaking up is hard to do." It's like the War and Peace of breakups.

tim in vermont said...

And Rachel is lustful and almost always in a state of arousal because you can usually see her nipples poking through her tops.

I never noticed that once. I may have to turn in my man card...

tim in vermont said...

Quick Google search later: Oh that, OK, maybe I noticed that. Still I like Valerie Allain in the French in Action language course better. She's the next best thing for learning French to a French girlfriend.

Bruce Hayden said...

"I'm sure everyone sees the gaps quite clearly unless they have some visual problem."

I disagree. I saw the gaps and the shapes about the same time. I didn't go through a thought process of seeing some arcs and line segments, wondering what they were, then realizing that they were really a circle and rectangle. The reason that these are interesting is not that we can extrapolate to the underlying shapes, but rather that our brains are detecting the shapes before we can think about what they are, and indeed, can sometimes lead us to falsely identify the underlying shapes. Sometimes all they are, are line segments and arcs, and sometimes the underlying structures are quite different.

Sebastian said...

Hope Althouse is achieving some closure on the Wisconsin game.

tim in vermont said...

and indeed, can sometimes lead us to falsely identify the underlying shapes.

That was a theory behind Dick Cheney's hunting accident. They say that more intelligent people are actually prone so fill in shapes more quickly, which in Cheney's case, turned out to be a double edged sword since he saw quail where there was a hunter.

rhhardin said...

Terrible acting for Aniston.

Robt C said...

Then there was the man who mistook his wife for a hat.

exhelodrvr1 said...

"almost always in a state of arousal because you can usually see her nipples poking through her tops."

She totally slayed that lewk!

Laslo Spatula said...

The freeze-frame of Jennifer Aniston brought to mind the quote often attributed to Catherine Deneuve: "At 30, a woman must choose between her face and her ass."

The idea, if it needs explaining, is that a little fat around the face keeps it youthful, and having a thin body when older can leave a woman with a harsher look.

A prime example of this is Madonna, on the times where you can see her now that haven't been aggressively retouched: her body is thin and muscular; her arms are sinewy; her face is a skull with a plastic bag over it that is wrinkled yet too tight.

Aniston is in the midst of this: she keeps a taut body, but the pleasing roundness to her face is gone, leaving planes and angles and desperate eyes. I'm not sure if the desperate eyes are due solely to her low amount of body fat; I think it may also be related to aging in an industry that values youth foremost, and the sense of being discarded. And looking at a lonely, empty future. Where all of the women on TV are young and pretty. Like she once was. And is slipping fast through her grasping, clawing fingers. Her grasping, clawing, childless fingers.

Anyway, she is on the way to looking like a more attractive version of an old Sarah Jessica Parker.

I am Laslo.

Tank said...

Watching Friends is more painful than reading the NYT.

Amazing that you watched a whole show.

Thr laugh track alone is like nails on a blackboard.

sinz52 said...

"The reason that I kept emphasizing arboreal is that this ability to see shapes, despite them being partially hidden, would seem more helpful in an arboreal existence, than in our later evolution on the savannah. Think of it, possibly, as the ability to accurately predict shapes partially obscured by leaves and other objects."

Even on the savannah, predators can be confused by unrecognizable patterns.

The evolution of the zebra's stripes: Nature was searching for a way to camouflage a group of zebras from being seen by predatory animals (lions, hyenas)or even dangerous insects that use pattern recognition to pick targets out of the foliage. Evidently these creatures can be thrown off by unrecognizable patterns (such as the stripes of several zebras moving past each other).

The okapi has zebra-like black-and-white stripes only on its legs and butt (which suggests that these are the parts of the animal that predators saw or smelled first, and hence needed the best camouflage).

BleachBit-and-Hammers said...

I cannot stand "Friends". Hated it then, hate it now. will never enter my - 'oh look I just discovered this is really great now that all this time has passed' ethos. It's over-acted cutesy bilge.
I'm watching old episodes of Cheers.
Not bad for a laugh.


"...It's a dog eat dog world, and I'm wearing milk bone underwear."
-Norm

Alcibiades said...

Buffy the Vampire Slayer from when Joss Whedon was sane and was just expanding into his talents and not the ass he now is -- that's a brilliant show with great character development.

Friends? Ugh!

Phil 314 said...

I don’t believe I’ve ever watched a single episode of Friends all the way through.

Mr Wibble said...

Buffy the Vampire Slayer from when Joss Whedon was sane and was just expanding into his talents and not the ass he now is -- that's a brilliant show with great character development.


Buffy was great until they graduated high school. It quickly got stupid after that.

tim maguire said...

You're watching friends? Voluntarily?

The Crack Emcee said...

tim in vermont said...

"Hah! That would be your point of view. As a character in a work of fiction, Phoebe is great."

Making Ross - a scientist - apologize to a cat for saying it's not Phoebe's mother? And getting the other women to back her in that nonsense?

I'd expect a defender of homeopathy to enjoy that, too.

tim maguire said...

The ability to fill in the gaps on partial pictures is related to the tendency to see faces in things. It doesn't need some psychological "law of closure" to describe it. It's well known that our ability to "fill in the gaps" makes it harder for that lion hiding in the bushes to eat us.

Darrell said...

The fellow shot in "Dick Cheney's hunting accident" was in the wrong. It was an organized shoot on private land and everybody was read the rules before it started. The victim had to leave the hunting line to take a crap, and when he was finished ignored the rule to return directly to the road and approach the firing line from behind. Instead he heard the noise up ahead and cut through the field on a diagonal to save time and steps. He emerged ahead of the firing line and to the right--where the hunters were shooting.

BleachBit-and-Hammers said...

I don’t believe I’ve ever watched a single episode of Friends all the way through.


I don't think I've ever managed an entire episode either, that I can recall. But still, we know it's there, and it's bad.

The Crack Emcee said...

Show me an episode where Phoebe makes anything better and not worse.

I haven't seen one yet.

bagoh20 said...

I think characters in most sitcoms have more depth than most real people. Our supposed depth is mostly just delusional self-esteem. I don't find myself to be very "deep", and that's O.K. The delusion seems to lead too many to suicide.

BleachBit-and-Hammers said...

The Democrat media are excellent at leaving gaps for hive-minders to fill. Putin and Trump stole the election from poor Hillary using hacked e-mails and obscure and lousy face-book ads.

*gap* Obstruction of justice. Crime of the century. *gap*
nom nom nom nom.

tim in vermont said...

Show me an episode where Phoebe makes anything better and not worse.

Phoebe is a fictional character and I can show you lots of episodes where the fictional Phoebe improved the product the actress was working on, which was a situational comedy. "Smelly Cat" alone improved a lot of episodes.

tcrosse said...

It depends how you define Old Television. As someone who started watching TV in 1949, my dividing line between Old and New is probably around 1965.

The Crack Emcee said...

The divorce that "Dharma and Gregg" went through is what tim in vermont thinks all of America needs, too.

The Crack Emcee said...

tim in vermont said...

"Smelly Cat" alone improved a lot of episodes.

You just like that song because it describes you.

tim in vermont said...

Sick burn, Crack.

The Crack Emcee said...

Phil 3:14 said...

"I don’t believe I’ve ever watched a single episode of Friends all the way through."

I lived in France - it's a fetish there. No escape. Plus, I liked seeing what silly American shit they thought reflected us. They'd look ate the screen, then at me, then back at the TV set.

And then I'd say "They're lying to you."

Mark said...

When the characters are shallow people, how can the show explore them in any depth? The deeper you go, the more you see how shallow they are.

Tank said...

America would be a better place if all the women were as good looking as Cox and Anniston were.

For us men, this is deep.

The Crack Emcee said...

AllenS said...

"Aren't all of the characters in Friends dysfunctional?"

Except for Chandler, who only was weird for going with Monica, who had weight "issues". Ross only had problems because he was with a bunch of imbeciles.

Phoebe actually said, rather than gravity pulling her down, she "felt" like it's pushing her - so she can blow it off. tim in vermont would've found her dreamy.

tcrosse said...

I liked seeing what silly American shit they thought reflected us.

That's why they loved Jerry Lewis.

bagoh20 said...

"when parts of a whole picture are missing, our perception fills in the visual gap."

I have a Koi pond full of fish, some I've had for 20 years. They are under constant attack from very large heron and egrets. We are at war. They usually show up at dawn, so every morning the first thing I do is look out the door to check for them. This morning I did that and swore I saw one in the pond. I turned to grab my paintball gun and turned back and it was gone. It was very quick. Now I'm not sure If I saw it or not. I have a clear memory in my head of seeing it there, but I'm admittedly obsessed with our war, so much that I can also believe I imagined it - closure.

The Crack Emcee said...

Tank said...

"America would be a better place if all the women were as good looking as Cox and Anniston were."

Wait - you guys got on me for saying white guys found Sex in the Horseface attractive - but, now, you're copping to Madam Pipecleaner and Lantern Jaw McHaircut?

Oh, God, please go on teasing Serena: it's obvious you just mad because she'd best all of you on the court and in bed.

The Crack Emcee said...

Rory said...

"Maybe it was a joke - a 236-episode search for depth?"

If they want to go on a "search", they picked the right sitcom - like the NewAge "thinking" it reflects - it's shallow, popular, and treats evil as a joke, and appeals to the likes of tim in vermont, who thinks concoctions that kill are "harmless".

It's absolutely perfect.

wild chicken said...

I stopped watching prime time tv in the 80s. Everything seemed so contrived or PC, and I lost patience.

My bf couldn't even get me to watch Seinfeld. "But it's quirky! You're quirky! You should like it!"

Whats wrong with me. When I was 13 I thought tv was great.

Mark said...

So here is an episode description from Wikipedia that seems to typify ever (partial) episode I ever saw -- "Monica and Rachel arguing over which roommate will win the last remaining condom in their apartment in order to have sex with their respective boyfriends."

And you wonder how the #MeToo culture flourished.

From Wikipedia also -- "Four months before its premiere, Friends failed NBC's confidential research report, which cited the unlikeability of its six main characters as a possible factor." One reviewer said, "Monica and her friends 'were superficial, self-absorbed and at first difficult to like.'"

The Crack Emcee said...

Laslo Spatula said...

"Phoebe is evil and almost always the catalyst for evil to occur."

"And Rachel is lustful and almost always in a state of arousal because you can usually see her nipples poking through her tops."

Well, there's that, and the fact she slept with all the guys but Chandler.

The Crack Emcee said...

Laslo Spatula said...

"Aniston....is on the way to looking like a more attractive version of an old Sarah Jessica Parker."

Lantern Jaw VS. Horseface: "White" guys - decide.

We blacks will watch and laugh.

Tank said...

@Crack

Looks are a matter of taste. My guess is that 100 out of 100 men would find COx or Anniston better looking than Williams, but that's me. I never opined on horse face.

To me Williams is a two or three, not pretty with a masculine body, again that's just me. Some guys like big women.

The Crack Emcee said...

A post on "Charmed" will really get me poppin'. Just sayin'.

Laslo Spatula said...

First: I had the mental picture of The Crack Emcee in the 90s, sitting on the couch, watching 'Friends', and trying to read the spines of the books on his bookshelf in the soft-focus background of that brief imaginary picture.

Then -- the brief idea of attempting funny: something like 'what, did your white friends not let you change the channel'?

But I didn't post that because it seemed like a poke rather than a quip, and I wasn't meaning to poke.

But the idea was that 'Friends' can be a painfully white show. As in all of the characters are white in a way that makes it very easy to make fun of white people.

Which got me thinking of how the whiteness of 'Friends' is a given to the white viewer; for a black viewer it might always feel at least one step removed, like a white person watching an Ice Cube 'Friday' movie and perhaps feeling like a bit like a cultural tourist (if you desire an inverse corollary).

Sure, there is the shared human condition, but the details matter, and one is often more aware of the details when the details differ from the water you swim in.

Which then made me think of when Aisha Tyler played Joey and Ross' black girlfriend (not at the same time; consecutively, I believe). I remember it because it was a Big Deal at the time: finally, a black person on 'Friends' -- as a love interest, even. I mean, it can't be a token if she's a Love Interest, right?

But, after Googling, it seems she was an "Afro-American palaeontologist". Because Joey and Ross wouldn't date a black woman who worked at the DMV. I don't know; maybe Joey would, if she was hot like Aisha.

(to be continued)

Laslo Spatula said...

(continued)

But one of the Google articles brought up a moderately interesting analysis:

"... In ‘The One With the List’, one episode after Ross and Rachel kiss for the first time, Julie, Ross’ non-Rachel girlfriend, has been unceremoniously dumped. Which, as it turns out, doesn’t really matter.

This got me thinking. Why doesn’t Julie matter? Should she matter? Why would her part be difficult to write? And most importantly, why isn’t she white? Then a lightbulb flashed above my head and I explained to my wife what I’m about to explain to you. (Cue thunder)

Julie is ‘Asian’ (as the Americans put it) and this is a fact that goes unannounced by the Friends friends. The relevance of this is simple: Julie had to be different. She had to be ‘other’. Think about it: if Julie was as white and mainstream as Rachel, she couldn’t survive as a character, conceptually. She would be too normal to be anything other than a viable competitor for Ross’ affections, which would, therefore, make her a figure of pure hatred for loyal viewers. This unfiltered hatred for the hypothetical white non-Rachel would sour the viewer’s experience of the show to such a warped extent that it would be unwatchable.

See, on one level, Friends exploits modern liberal ideals in order to allow emotionally devastating interactions to take place, affecting its core characters. Julie, is just about different enough to not really matter as a character, but we are fond of her because liberal sensibilities demand that of us. I have no idea if this is a deliberate move on the part of the writers, but I can see the logic in casting someone racially different in a role that could garner spite if she was ‘equal’ to Rachel.

The same thing can be said of Charlie, the Afro-American palaeontologist who eventually becomes Ross’ love interest in season whatever. She is absolutely normal and attuned to the social rules of the Friends friends, but, crucially, she is not-white. So, again, the viewer’s liberal sensibilities act as a buffer to any accidental hatred that might tea-stain the purity of the Friends experience..."


(to be continued)

Laslo Spatula said...

"...Going back a season to the very beginning of the series, let’s examine Ross’ first love interest – Carol. She really should be a figure of pure disdain. Her decision to abandon marriage with Ross kick-starts the whole will-they-won’t-they saga with Rachel, but, of course, she is ‘different’ too, insofar as being gay is being different. The ‘otherness’ of her character forces us to soften our feelings towards her. In fact, the writers inadvertently invite us to self-congratulate ourselves on how accepting we are, because we, (like Rachel) welcome Carol into the fold in her role of Ben’s mum.

There’s more. Season something or other sees the introduction of Emily, a love interest that pushes Ross so far away from Rachel that he (very nearly) gets married – potentially levelling the will-they-won’t-they seesaw for good. Now, Emily is indeed white and she is also straight, but she just happens to be… non-American. Accidental? Perhaps, but her otherness is in keeping with the theory I’m outlining in this article. Emily, to avoid being a figure of derision, cannot be from the same socio-cultural universe as Rachel.

Interestingly, Ross’ various girlfriends also do a lot to endear him to us. His insistence on pairing up with all creeds, colours and sexualities of woman paint him as not so much forward-thinking as socially naive. Much is made of his inexperience with women (Carol was the only woman he had slept with before Julie). It is almost as though he doesn’t realise that he should be with the Rachels of this world. If you consider that Friends was/is the defining text of 90s mainstream white America, Ross’ choice of weird women — gay, Asian, British, Black — was him being separated from the homogenised Alpha male status."


Which might sound like pretentious hot air, except it also makes sense in the shorthand sitcom storytelling way: you need to know the type, and whether you're supposed to like them or not, quickly -- before the next commercial break, if not by the end of the episode.

This shorthand sitcom storytelling also explains the constant appearance of Rachel's nipples: it means men are supposed to like her.

I don't recall if Aisha Tyler's nipples were omnipresent; I would assume not, because I think I would remember that. Plus, after they go through the process of making her a palaeontologist to whiten her black sexuality you can't then blow that hard work by having her Afro-American nipples be prominent.

Anyway, that is what I was thinking for a bit this Sunday morning.

I am Laslo.

rehajm said...

Only real virtue signaling is from Phoebe, and she’s lightly mocked.

Mark said...

Presented as the epitome of hip and cool, the premise of "Friends," the characters and the storylines are all moronic and deeply superficial. None of the characters are appealing or funny. I certainly would have none of them as my "friends."

The Crack Emcee said...

Tank said...

"@Crack

Looks are a matter of taste."

I know, Tank, but some of these guys need their chains yanked back at 'em. I'm yanking' 'em.

"My guess is that 100 out of 100 men would find COx or Anniston better looking than Williams, but that's me."

They're judging the woman at work, not relaxing, and through the racist we-muct-be-better lens (insecurity on parade).

"I never opined on horse face."

You're smarter than most.

"To me Williams is a two or three, not pretty with a masculine body, again that's just me."

We black men know the difference. Serena's got the goods. And most white giirls simply can't compete.

"Some guys like big women."

Most guys do - but "white" culture doesn't. Y'all need to fix that: you're making people sick.

Michael K said...

in Cheney's case, turned out to be a double edged sword since he saw quail where there was a hunter.

Darrell already made the point I was to make. Cheney was not at fault but the press hated him like they hate Trump.

Like Trump, Cheney didn't care.

If you are bird hunting with a group, you always stay in a line and returning to the group from something like a crap, you always approach from behind and don't shoot until you are back in line.

I did a lot of bird hunting at one time and we sometimes hunted with 10 or 12 others. Another way to do it is to have half the group on one side of the field and the other half walking from the other side.

The pheasants, which were the birds where we used that method, would get up when the two lines were about 75 yards apart.

With quail, we did not do that as they get up much closer to the hunters.

Darkisland said...

Are there any defenders of homeopathy reading Althouse, Crack?

John Henry

Dust Bunny Queen said...

I have never watched an episode of Friends. Doubt I am missing much from the descriptions of the show and characters so far in this comment section.

Temujin said...

The original Star Trek had a short run but spent that time getting into some very dark (and light) corners of the characters psyches.

The Crack Emcee said...

Laslo Spatula said...

"First: I had the mental picture of The Crack Emcee in the 90s, sitting on the couch, watching 'Friends', and trying to read the spines of the books on his bookshelf in the soft-focus background of that brief imaginary picture."

Picture it in France (the only situation where I'd watch "Friends") and, so far, so good:

"Then -- the brief idea of attempting funny: something like 'what, did your white friends not let you change the channel'?"

No - I'm in France and they think it's the greatest show ever invented - so, no. It would be rude. Even as a guest. Plus, they're French: they wouldn't understand.

"The idea was that 'Friends' can be a painfully white show."

And do not underestimate the amount of pain we're talking about here - I mean, Phoebe.

"As in all of the characters are white in a way that makes it very easy to make fun of white people."

I mean, Phoebe.

"Which got me thinking of how the whiteness of 'Friends' is a given to the white viewer; for a black viewer it might always feel at least one step removed, like a white person watching an Ice Cube 'Friday' movie and perhaps feeling like a bit like a cultural tourist (if you desire an inverse corollary)."

It's more like 10 steps, because white culture is both familiar and alien to blacks, in different ways, depending on multiple factors.

"Sure, there is the shared human condition, but the details matter, and one is often more aware of the details when the details differ from the water you swim in."

Give this man a trophy for perception.

"Which then made me think of when Aisha Tyler played Joey and Ross' black girlfriend (not at the same time; consecutively, I believe). I remember it because it was a Big Deal at the time: finally, a black person on 'Friends' -- as a love interest, even. I mean, it can't be a token if she's a Love Interest, right?

But, after Googling, it seems she was an "Afro-American palaeontologist". Because Joey and Ross wouldn't date a black woman who worked at the DMV. I don't know; maybe Joey would, if she was hot like Aisha."

She's been talking to "blacks" offline about her experiences on the show and it wasn't what it looked like.

john said...

I think Elaine did this kind of phone shtick much better, and many more times also.

Mark said...

Thinking about it -- there were moments on "The Office" when they got deeper into the constantly joking Michael Scott and you could catch a glimpse of his inner self.

Dust Bunny Queen said...

When I was 13 I thought tv was great.

When I was 10 to 13, I was watching Twilight Zone. That WAS great.

The Crack Emcee said...

Laslo,

"Interestingly, Ross’ various girlfriends also do a lot to endear him to us. His insistence on pairing up with all creeds, colours and sexualities of woman paint him as not so much forward-thinking as socially naive. Much is made of his inexperience with women (Carol was the only woman he had slept with before Julie). It is almost as though he doesn’t realise that he should be with the Rachels of this world. If you consider that Friends was/is the defining text of 90s mainstream white America, Ross’ choice of weird women — gay, Asian, British, Black — was him being separated from the homogenised Alpha male status.""

Ross is the scientist - other than Chandler, he's the only intelligent, non-racist, character on the whole show. The rest are "nice" (like Mormons) but "white" people (like Mormons) so almost always problematic.

And Phoebe is evil.

The Crack Emcee said...

Darkisland said...

"Are there any defenders of homeopathy reading Althouse, Crack?"

There's definitely you and tim from vermont, I know that.

The Crack Emcee said...

Temujin said...
The original Star Trek had a short run but spent that time getting into some very dark (and light) corners of the characters psyches.

I recently discovered Lucille Ball was responsible for Trek getting on the air.

I LOVE LUCY!!!

jeremyabrams said...

The purpose of Friends was to teach people how to milk relationships for either sex or confirmation of their self-hatred, and how to break up instead of maintain relationships.

Also, it advocated friendship rather than marriage as the ideal relationship form.

Basically, it idealized perpetual adolescence.

Dust Bunny Queen said...

Speaking of unbearably stupid white person nerdy derpy shows....Big Bang Theory.

We have a good friend who highly recommended we watch that show. It was awful!

Stupid jokes.
Loud laughter track hee-hawing for no rational reason. Person walks in the room...ha ha ha ha.
Characters who were acting like mentally retarded toddlers.
More insane laughter.
Halfway through the show we wanted them all to die and turned it off.

It made us seriously reconsider the intelligence of our friend.

If you are going to do White and Nerdy at least do it right and be funny about it.

Phil 314 said...

“Show me an episode where Phoebe makes anything better and not worse. “

Clearly Crack has watched EVERY episode ALL THE WAY THROUGH.

Lazlo, beat me to it ( and in a much more detailed way) but this says a lot about Crack’s perception of

YOU WHITE PEOPLE

William said...

I never binge watched Friends, but the show is pleasant enough to watch. Wouldn't all those infidelities and betrayals have been a deal breaker for real friendships? Marriages, engagements, family relations are ephemeral but nothing frays the sacred bonds of friendship for more than two or three episodes.

Pianoman said...

This is why animation works. The audience fills in the "gap" in between frames. The animation is essentially creating the circle and square with missing "data".

Carol said...

When I was 10 to 13, I was watching Twilight Zone.

Yeah we watched that too. Just another show reminding me that the world could blow up in atomic war! And we didn't have a fallout shelter!

The Crack Emcee said...

Jeremy Abrams said...

"The purpose of Friends was to teach people how to milk relationships for either sex or confirmation of their self-hatred, and how to break up instead of maintain relationships."

I said "evil" - I can't speak any more plainly, I think.

"Also, it advocated friendship rather than marriage as the ideal relationship form."

In "The One With The Cat", Phoebe basically tells Ross friendship equals unconditional support, even when you're 100% wrong and hurting others - including children (the cat Phoebe stole belongs to a child) - and then she gets the other women to back her up in pressuring Ross to go along with that.

Pure evil.

"Basically, it idealized perpetual adolescence."

Most kids learn right from wrong by the age of 5 or so, so I'm sticking with PURE EVIL.

JML said...

There is a blind spot in each eye - we never notice it because the brain fills in the spot based on the pattern around it. This is bad news when flying and a plane flying towards you is in the blind spot - all you see is sky. That is another reason why military aviators are trained to constantly scan the sky. "Keep you head on a swivel!"

Phil 314 said...

I’ll repeat this comment that I left on the original thread of 2 days ago (regarding character development )

“Don’t you all get the hint!?

The Professor wants OUR characters to develop.”

The Crack Emcee said...

Phil 3:14 said...

"Clearly Crack has watched EVERY episode ALL THE WAY THROUGH."

Have you ever seen French TV?

I'll watch the KKK channel to avoid their bullshit.

William said...

The show Atlanta features the kind of black person that could never appear on a white sitcom. On white shows, the black character is pretty much always a nerd. There can't be that many black paleontologists, and, of that number, how many are gorgeous women......I think Rachel's nipples were important plot points and that a lot of character development hinged around those plot points. I wonder if any friendship, not to mention engagement or marriage, could endure Rachel's infidelities and waverings. However, it was possible to suspend disbelief from those pokies.

Tank said...

Friends is a good show to watch with the sound off. In fact, a lot of tv is like that, including sportsball.

JML said...

William, at the very least, Rachel's nipples were important points.

The Crack Emcee said...

William said...

"The show Atlanta features the kind of black person that could never appear on a white sitcom."

That's the most honest show about blacks on television.

"On white shows, the black character is pretty much always a nerd."

Because real blacks are only OK in a CD or .mp3 format.

"There can't be that many black paleontologists, and, of that number, how many are gorgeous women......"

I've never met one.

"I think Rachel's nipples were important plot points and that a lot of character development hinged around those plot points."

It can't be that lantern jaw.

"I wonder if any friendship, not to mention engagement or marriage, could endure Rachel's infidelities and waverings."

Nope.

"However, it was possible to suspend disbelief from those pokies."

Apparently.

The Crack Emcee said...

Here's a fun game: rather than looking at something shallow, trying to find depth, look at something that's supposed to be deep - for how shallow it's actually been:

Dalai Lama: I knew of sex abuse by Buddhist teachers since 1990s

Hello, Dalai!

Laslo Spatula said...

"Lazlo, beat me to it ( and in a much more detailed way) but this says a lot about Crack’s perception of YOU WHITE PEOPLE"

I am interested in a lot of Crack's 'perceptions of white people.' I generally like when sunlight comes in from another window: makes different shadows.

I was at the smoke shop yesterday, and two white young adults (nineteen, maybe) came out as I was entering. One had the pants purposefully sagged to the knees, held up by him grabbing his junk; the other had a hipster man-bun on the top of his head.

So, basically, one white guy stereotypically trying to be black, and one white guy being stereotypically white.

They got into a mid-Nineties Nissan with the passenger-door mirror hanging down, broken. Took three tries to get the car started; once they got moving on came the loud bass thud of the stereo, audibly shaking the loose parts of the car.

I smiled; there was something ridiculous and heartwarming about it.

I am Laslo.

William said...

The Good Place is a fine show. Ted Danson and Kristen Bell give off a Sam and Diane vibe in their banter. Their characters and their race are in sync. Not so with the other characters. Kristen's love interest is played by a professor of ethics and philosophy who tortured by his absurd scruples. Such a role is generally played by a Jewish intellectual, but here it's played by a black man. The traditional black role of dj/rapper is played by a Filipino. The snobbish, wealthy Briton is played by a Pakistani.......It's a way around stereotypes. Present a racially stereotyped character but have a character of a different race portray the stereotype. It's a way to have your cake and eat it too.

Howard said...

Blogger tim in vermont said...

Quick Google search later: Oh that, OK, maybe I noticed that. Still I like Valerie Allain in the French in Action language course better.


Wow. No worries on the man card. I'm worried about Crack's man card, however, given how much he knows about Friends.

Mark said...

The snobbish, wealthy Briton is played by a Pakistani.

The snobbish, wealthy Briton is played by a Briton.

tcrosse said...

There was a Seinfeld episode where George is cuddled up with his soon-to-be-dead fiancee, and forced to watch Mad About You, with a look of disgust on his face.

Yancey Ward said...

I loved the show, but Friends doesn't really involve deep character development.

Michael said...

She probably dialed the time signal.

Yancey Ward said...

That closure can get you killed. One of the more common driving mistakes I see in car crash videos is drivers turning across a lane from which their view of on-coming traffic is blocked by another, larger vehicle sitting in the nearer oncoming left lane (that larger vehicle waiting to make a left, or just allowing the other driver- the one about to be hit- to turn across in front). For the longest time, I couldn't figure out why people took it on faith that what they couldn't see couldn't hurt them, but I eventually realized that in those cases, their brains were filling in the false detail of no oncoming traffic. You literally do have to take the extra, conscious mental step of making the opposition assumption of what you cannot see.

You see the same thing with pedestrians crossing in front of vehicles that block their vision of the next lane over.

Paddy O said...

I watched Friends, and while I think they do explore the characters with real depth, the characters (as written) aren't actually that deep. They're all fairly shallow people, but you get to know them fairly well in the complexity they do have.

Whereas in Seinfeld, they're shallow people who aren't explored with depth, but that keeps the characters more flexible and surprising.

Paddy O said...

I think Scrubs has fairly deep character development, but that was part of its goals, with the voice-over interactions and the weekly "moral of the story."

Anonymous said...

OT but a note for Michael K. The guide forgot that his weapon was not a fashion accessory. The sport had a weapon, but in his pack of all places. Same issue as when you need the cops now they are only ten minutes away.

Are you sure that you don't want that $1400 tactical shotgun for your daughter?

wildswan said...

Seinfeld - best comedy show ever but no character development. A show about nothing. Yet I hate Friends though I've never seen a even five minutes of it because I regard it as shallow and about nothing.

Atlanta. I watch it intermittently and it strikes me as very funny. But I feel very uncomfortable laughing when, for example, the main character is trying to wriggle out of being at an expensive restaurant without money or credit cards because he was showing off. Or when another character is trying to cheat a drug test and sprays urine from the cheat sample over herself and then in the next scene loses her job. As done it does seem funny, yet I can't laugh at a woman with a baby losing her job.

Earnest Prole said...

In other words, our minds are designed to leap to conclusions.

Mark said...

Atlanta. . . . the main character is trying to wriggle out of being at an expensive restaurant without money or credit cards because he was showing off. Or when another character is trying to cheat a drug test and sprays urine from the cheat sample over herself

That's the most honest show about blacks on television.

When race-baiting comes back to bite you in the ass.

rcocean said...

The characters on "Friends" weren't dysfunctional - just unfunny as hell.

Couldn't make it through one episode. Some sitcoms are funny, and some need a very loud laugh track to remind you that its a comedy.

Friends had a loud laugh-track.

Only 90s sitcoms I liked - Simpsons, Fraiser, Seinfeld. And Drew Carey was OK, but the writing wasn't very good.

Michael K said...


OT but a note for Michael K. The guide forgot that his weapon was not a fashion accessory. The sport had a weapon, but in his pack of all places. Same issue as when you need the cops now they are only ten minutes away.

Are you sure that you don't want that $1400 tactical shotgun for your daughter?


If you can explain why it is better than the $250 one, maybe.

Just watched a nice PBS special on Otzi, the iceman. She saw it with me in 2003.

traditionalguy said...

Give Phoebe a break. She plays an Eros love filled woman who likes most other people. That is a hard to find combo.

rcocean said...

Actually I've lied about not getting through an episode of Friends, now that I think about it. I think I watched about six episodes over the course of about 3 years. It's one of those things where you try something, don't like it, and then six months later, think "Hey, maybe it'll be better this time"

Only it wasn't.

Howard said...

According to Wikipedia, Gestalt is heavy on theory and weak on facts. The use of the word "law" is a clue.

I like the word Gestalt. Useful for describing the whole all at once impact of something.

Drudge is sporting "Looters Capitalize on Chaos" with a photo of a handful of section 8 blacks with toilet paper and sodas outside a dollar store. The Gestalt of that image is designed for racist deplorables to then fill that into the entire black community.

Mark said...

I think I watched about six episodes over the course of about 3 years. It's one of those things where you try something, don't like it, and then six months later, think "Hey, maybe it'll be better this time"

Usually in those kinds of situations, the episodes you see after a wide gap of time end up being the exact same episode you saw before.

rcocean said...

"Seinfeld - best comedy show ever but no character development."

Actually, George changes. He starts off in Season 1, as a mild Woody Allen type, and then develops into the crazy nut we all know and love. J.L. Dreyfus also becomes more wacky as the show goes along.

The producers figured out, after the first couple seasons, that the supporting characters were the really funny ones, so we got more and more action revolving around Elaine, George, and Kramer. Newman, George's Parents, etc. came in after Season 3.

rcocean said...

"Usually in those kinds of situations, the episodes you see after a wide gap of time end up being the exact same episode you saw before."

With Friends, it seems like every episode was the same, except for a few plot tweeks.

Earnest Prole said...

at the very least, Rachel's nipples were important points.

My adult daughter recently watched the series for the first time and was astounded at their deployment. It fell to me to tell her that her own mother (like many women) was nipple-positive back in the day.

Unknown said...

Howard said...

Drudge is sporting "Looters Capitalize on Chaos" with a photo of a handful of section 8 blacks with toilet paper and sodas outside a dollar store. The Gestalt of that image is designed for racist deplorables to then fill that into the entire black community.
************************
Uh huh.... how do you KNOW they're Section 8...? Seems like YOU'RE doing a lot of projecting here....

Mark said...

What??

They are rebooting Magnum P.I. with a PC cast.

ALP said...

Interesting that you are watching "Friends" with your son. Is he the age of the people portrayed on the show? I have aged out of the '20-30 something group of people finding themseles in a big city' story lines. Seems so tedious and boring now but might not be if you have a kid in the age group of the characters.

While we are at it - when we were on the cusp of streaming taking over, TBS had a fantastic show (a sitcom) called "Men of a Certain Age" with Ray Romano, Scott Bakula. What an amazing show, some of the best writing I've ever come across on TV. Too bad it only lasted one season on cable - might have made it on Netflix.

ALP said...

And..."People of Earth" is worth a look - the best damn sitcom that has been aired on cable in the last couple of years. Unusual plot line that revolves around a group of people that had been abducted by aliens; the aliens on the spaceship are a workplace comedy in the vein of "The Office". TBS I believe...

M Jordan said...

George Costanza was a developed character.

Michael K said...

Drudge is sporting "Looters Capitalize on Chaos" with a photo of a handful of section 8 blacks with toilet paper and sodas outside a dollar store. The Gestalt of that image is designed for racist deplorables to then fill that into the entire black community.

Howard is moving to Oakland any day now.

Meanwhile, Anderson Cooper shows us how trustworthy CNN is

Standing in a ditch to show how deep the flood is is not that different from the weather man who can't stand up against the wind.

Believe that news. They are our betters.

M Jordan said...

Gilligan’s was a deeply nuanced character, in a way, if by nuanced you mean flat.

M Jordan said...

Barney Fife was a developed character.

Mark said...

Setting aside the point about creating your own show if you want to change a lot of things rather than pigging-backing on some past popular show --

If you are going attempt to replace iconic actors like Tom Selleck and the even more iconic Jack Lord as Steve McGarrett, then you should not replace them with bland vanilla faceless actors.

stever said...

Never cared for Friends. The most obvious reason was that Ross was weak and every time I watched it Ross was doing something weak, and doing it unfunny. I'm more of a Seinfeld fan.

J Melcher said...

Sitcoms present fascinating situations that they then fear to resolve, lest they unfasten the viewers' attention. Developing a character within that situation would tend to resolve the situation and so is avoided.

Consider the "Lucy Show" -- distinct from "I Love Lucy". Lucy's character, Mrs. Carmichael, apparently is the beneficiary of a trust fund run by Gail Gordon's banker character, Mr. Mooney. The capital in trust is so large that Mooney is loathe to let it go; but the pay outs are so small that Carmichael is always scheming to eke out a bit more funding. She works as Mooney's secretary, but is bad at it. She pretends to be a Hollywood stuntman, "Iron Man Carmichael". Other schemes ... What is the back story that put Carmichael into contact with such wealth? Why does Mooney continue to offer personal attention -- instead of treating Carmichael like the banker, Mr Poe, does the Beaudelaire orphans of "A Series of Unfortunate Events"? Why do both, so tied to the invisible fortune in trust, not scheme TOGETHER to liberate those funds?

Mark said...

What makes it worse is that it has been thirty years since Magnum ended its original broadcast run.

rcocean said...

Christine Blasey Ford, a professor at Palo Alto University, told the Post that she decided to come forward because she felt her "civic responsibility" began "outweighing [her] anguish and terror about retaliation." Ford does not remember all of the details of the alleged incident — such as the exact time or location — but says she took a lie detector test administered by a former FBI agent in August, which determined she was telling the truth when she said her account of that night was accurate.

LOL! Can you say, "Fake Rape" boys and girls?

Michael K said...

I never watched an episode of "Friends" and never wanted to. My kids seemed to like it.

"Northern Exposure" had much more interesting characters from what I know.

My TV watching is a poor basis to judge sit coms.

rcocean said...

outweighing [her] anguish and terror about retaliation.

More unintentional humor. Yes, I'm sure her liberal colleagues and liberal SF Bay neighbors will be VERY UPSET.

But, what a brave little soldier. And just like Anita Hill, she will the price, by giving well-paid lectures, TV appearances, and hopefully a UC Berkeley professorship.


FullMoon said...

..... but says she took a lie detector test administered by a former FBI agent in August, which determined she was telling the truth when she said her account of that night was accurate.


Perfect ! "It's not a lie if you believe it"

CStanley said...

Part of what makes sitcoms work is that the characters have very little depth (their shallowness is often the setup of the jokes.) Friends is certainly no exception.

My all time favorites, Frazierand The Bob Newhart Show likewise did not have much depth in the characters. What they had was good writers setting up funny situations with people who were caricatures.

rcocean said...

Perfect ! "It's not a lie if you believe it"

Ha!

FullMoon said...

..... but says she took a lie detector test administered by a former FBI agent in August, which determined she was telling the truth when she said her account of that night was accurate.

Why? Also, the fact that a letter signed by sixty-five women attesting to Kavanaughs decency was immediately available shows that Republicans were aware of this letter long ago and laughed at it.

Kinda surprised no more whackos have come out accusing yet. Goes against the general left wing playbook. There is NEVER just one.

BUMBLE BEE said...

Shakespeare said there were 7 basic story lines. How many episodes of Friends?

SeanF said...

The Crack Emcee: I recently discovered Lucille Ball was responsible for Trek getting on the air.

Did you know that Shari Lewis, best known as Lambchop's puppeteer, wrote an episode of "Star Trek"?

BUMBLE BEE said...

Christine Blasey Ford came forward just in time for the Sunday news speculation. Good timing!
Leftism is disease.

SeanF said...

FullMoon: Why? Also, the fact that a letter signed by sixty-five women attesting to Kavanaughs decency was immediately available shows that Republicans were aware of this letter long ago and laughed at it.

Brit Hume's daughter, Virginia, is one of the signers of that letter and she says the letter didn't even exist until after Feinstein made the accusation public.

The Crack Emcee said...

"The unspoken agreement on values at the Google all-hands meeting is a reminder of how easily groupthink can become what Scott Adams called the ‘casual evil’ of self-righteousness.”

Replace the word "groupthink" with "cultism" and I could've written that sentence, so why is it the way I talk isn't regarded as crazy when in the mouths of people like conservative hero Richard Fernandez?

You know why.

Mark said...

And now I just saw a commercial for the return of Murphy Brown.

FullMoon said...

Accusers story in Washington Post

Mark said...

conservative hero Richard Fernandez

????

Who is Richard Fernandez? Do conservatives know that he is their hero?

chickelit said...

Yes, Mark, most of do.

Where have you been? In a garage?

Mark said...

. . . and a reboot of Cagney & Lacey.

Seriously. Is there a bigger place of unimaginative tedious vapid losers than Hollywood?

chickelit said...

I never really cared for Aniston, except for in "Office Space." Do people really think she embodies the all-American look?

chickelit said...

"Christine Blasey Ford" has a couple pseudonyms.

tim in vermont said...

I might have Phoebe for a girlfriend, but that's not the same thing as having her make all of my life decisions, or any of them. And years after either I dumped her or she dumped me I wouldn't be obsessing over her and seeing her in every human relationship I had. Just saying, Crack.

rcocean said...

There are always more accusers because anyone can make up a story from 35 years ago.

I can remember when Althouse -35 years ago - tried to force herself on me. I fought her off, of course. I'm not that kind of guy.

Sorry, I can't give you exact dates or locations. But it was horrific.

Prove me wrong.

The Crack Emcee said...

Laslo Spatula said...

"I am interested in a lot of Crack's 'perceptions of white people.' I generally like when sunlight comes in from another window: makes different shadows."

That's now "white" people - in quotes - to differentiate the impossible Gahrie's and Michael K's from normal white people, just trying to get along like the rest of us, who almost anyone can get along with. I owe them that.

"I was at the smoke shop yesterday, and two white young adults (nineteen, maybe) came out as I was entering. One had the pants purposefully sagged to the knees, held up by him grabbing his junk; the other had a hipster man-bun on the top of his head."

Ouch.

"So, basically, one white guy stereotypically trying to be black, and one white guy being stereotypically white."

Gotcha.

"They got into a mid-Nineties Nissan with the passenger-door mirror hanging down, broken. Took three tries to get the car started; once they got moving on came the loud bass thud of the stereo, audibly shaking the loose parts of the car."

Which were fine before they put that humungus-assed BASS in the trunk. I won't get in the things. I like my ears.

"I smiled; there was something ridiculous and heartwarming about it."

I hear you. It's part of America's evolution, trying to work itself out - without guidance of any kind - in a society determined not to offer any.

chickelit said...

Prof. Christine M. Ballsey named a third party present in the room who could corroborate everything. I think it’s time for him to step forward.

tim in vermont said...

"Well there must be some way I can lose these lonesome blues
C
Forget about the past and find somebody new
C7 F G7 C
I've thought of everything from A to Z

Oh lonesome me

G7 C
Oh lonesome me"

Crack, maybe you can turn your pain I nto a song?

rcocean said...

Prof. Christine M. Ballsey named a third party present in the room who could corroborate everything. I think it’s time for him to step forward.

Mark Judge is the friend. However, he was "Stumbling drunk" at the time. As was Kavenaugh.

What he remembers will depend on his party affiliation.

rcocean said...

"Ford was able to escape when Judge jumped on top of her and Kavanaugh and broke them up, she said. She said she then locked herself in a nearby bathroom for five or 10 minutes before leaving the house."

Ah, was she drinking? Cause she's in a strange house full of "Stumbling Drunk" young men, and goes up to the Bedroom with them. While "loud Rock and roll music plays".

Maybe, she just showed up to do her homework.

Dust Bunny Queen said...

Crack made a comment about how foreign the white culture on these sitcoms (Friends, Big Bang Theory, Sex in the City etc etc) is to him and to black culture.

I agree. AND...I can't begin to tell you how foreign those sitcom people are to me and others I know who are white. The situations, the characters, the way they live, what they are concerned about, how they (stupidly) respond, what they wear, what they eat.....all of it is so totally foreign and out of whack to how normal people actually live. (Because, obviously I am the normal one :-D /sarcasm)

Maybe it is an urban/rural divide. Maybe it is the age difference Millenials/Older people. Liberals/Deplorables.

Who know, but all I know is that those shows are like watching people from another planet. One that I have no desire to visit. Ever.

Jim at said...

Speaking of unbearably stupid white person nerdy derpy shows....Big Bang Theory.

Yep. Caught it one day in syndication. Five minutes in and I couldn't take any more of the laugh track.

Haven't seen a second of it since.

The Crack Emcee said...

Howard said...

"I'm worried about Crack's man card, however, given how much he knows about Friends."

One more time: I was in France. It was a national obsession. I watched the whole thing unfold, mesmerized by it and them. It wasn't funny, even in French, so I didn't "get" it - but I got what I'm saying now: Phoebe is evil, Monica is an extremely insecure pipe cleaner, Rachel is lantern jawed trouble, Ross and Chandler are pretty normal (though Monica does cause Chandler to put on a lot of weight as she drops hers) and Joey, of course, is an idiot. It's the only way to see that show if you're not laughing with it, which I was not.

Look - Here's a trailer for the French version of "Jackass": It's not funny either. But the French were in tears. I was fascinated. That's all I can say.

eddie willers said...

and a reboot of Cagney & Lacey.

Will males play the lead?

Arashi said...

And she 'remembered' all of this during couples therapy in 2012. She told no one at the time, she is short on details of location, etc - but remembers the events in the room and the fact that both boys were stumbling drunk.

I think, maybe false memory from therapy, maybe just total BS. But it was 35 years ago, no police report at the time - and even if there had been, would it not have been a juvenile matter anyway?

I think just another political hit job - so far excellently played.

rcocean said...

Its gets even Better.

It seems Ms. Ford, was so traumatized she didn't talk about it for 26 years.

Ford told the Post that she hasn’t spoken with Kavanaugh since the alleged incident and didn’t tell anyone about it until 2012, when she discussed it in couple’s therapy.

LOL - shaded of Anita Hill.

Arashi said...

Maybe the therapist 'helped' her remember.

rcocean said...

Its no more credible than Roy Moore. With Moore, the Republican establishment - including Senator Shelby - joined in the fun. In fact, the WaPo got their leads from the RNC.

However, the establishment, including NR and the Weekly Standard - like Kavenaugh, so this will go nowhere.

rcocean said...

"Maybe the therapist 'helped' her remember."

Of course, her therapist's notes are privileged information. And can't be released.

Convenient.

But "I told my therapist" - sounds a lot better than "I told no one in 35 years, except my cat"

rcocean said...

Of course, being a Professor, means she's a shy, quiet type, who doesn't like to talk.

The Crack Emcee said...

tcrosse said...

"There was a Seinfeld episode where George is cuddled up with his soon-to-be-dead fiancee, and forced to watch Mad About You, with a look of disgust on his face."

I have a special place in my heart for Seinfeld, that only one of my nephews acknowledges. Other blacks treat that show like it's a litmus test for blackness: If you like Seinfeld, you're out - no ifs, ands, or buts about it. I don't get it:

How can you not like a show that bags on Mad About You?

The Crack Emcee said...

Another plus for Seinfeld:

It starts with the premise that white people are evil.

It even had the balls to end it by throwing them in jail.

Great show.

Michael K said...


Prof. Christine M. Ballsey named a third party present in the room who could corroborate everything. I think it’s time for him to step forward.


He has already denied it happened.

Who was other party in "couples' therapy? Her lesbian wife ?

Arashi said...

Yes, professors, especially ones who are published, never lie, miss-lead or make krap up. They are as pure as the driven snow and must be taken as the ultimate arbiters of TRUTH.

The Crack Emcee said...

Mark said...

"Atlanta. . . . the main character is trying to wriggle out of being at an expensive restaurant without money or credit cards because he was showing off. Or when another character is trying to cheat a drug test and sprays urine from the cheat sample over herself"

That's the most honest show about blacks on television.

When race-baiting comes back to bite you in the ass.

I don't know what you're talking about: I was just talking to a friend of mine, about trying to pass a drug test, last week.

Welcome to America, Homie.

chickelit said...

Next we need to know Ballsey’s stance on abortion. Is she as neutral as Kavanaugh?

The Crack Emcee said...

wildswan said...

"Atlanta. I watch it intermittently and it strikes me as very funny. But I feel very uncomfortable laughing when, for example, the main character is trying to wriggle out of being at an expensive restaurant without money or credit cards because he was showing off. Or when another character is trying to cheat a drug test and sprays urine from the cheat sample over herself and then in the next scene loses her job. As done it does seem funny, yet I can't laugh at a woman with a baby losing her job."

Atlanta is cringe comedy - you're supposed to laugh at it.

FullMoon said...

Of course, her therapist's notes are privileged information. And can't be released.

Therapist notes released. Naturally, only notes that back up her story, sorta.

FullMoon said...

Once again:

Accusers story in Washington Post

The Crack Emcee said...

rcocean said...

"Drew Carey was OK, but the writing wasn't very good."

He's now the host of The Price Is Right, making him - officially - one of the coolest white guys on the planet. He's just one word now - Drew - like Cher and Madonna. It's fucking cool, I think.

I don't know why more don't follow his lead.

JPS said...

A thread in which The Crack Emcee turns out to be deeply conversant in Friends, and Laslo comes to discuss, might just be the greatest Althouse comment thread ever.

Forget Neil Patrick Harris, I'm wishing Friends had been part of Eddie Griffin's white culture training inUndercover Brother.

Michael K,

"Cheney was not at fault"

I have to disagree. Whatever the SOP for bird-hunting or their particular outing, if you ND into someone's face, you are at fault.

rehajm said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
rehajm said...

Best One: The One With the Rumor


SPOILER: Rachel is the hermaphrodite cheerleader from Long Island.

Dust Bunny Queen said...

Michael K,

"Cheney was not at fault"

JPS I have to disagree. Whatever the SOP for bird-hunting or their particular outing, if you ND into someone's face, you are at fault.

Obviously, you have never been hunting....or maybe even outdoors.

Even the guy who got shot admitted his fault.

The Crack Emcee said...

M Jordan said...

"Gilligan’s was a deeply nuanced character, in a way, if by nuanced you mean flat."

I watched a "Behind The Scenes" documentary about that show yesterday, if you can believe that. Yes, I'm weird.

Mark said...

and a reboot of Cagney & Lacey.

Will males play the lead?

Is that an invitation to say -- Why not? They did the last time, didn't they?

Well, no, I'm not going to go there.

Michael K said...

Whatever the SOP for bird-hunting or their particular outing, if you ND into someone's face, you are at fault.

DBQ answered you and it is obvious to me that you have never been hunting.

The Crack Emcee said...

SeanF said...

"Did you know that Shari Lewis, best known as Lambchop's puppeteer, wrote an episode of "Star Trek"?"

Nope, I didn't know. If I start digging into Trek now, I'll never get out. I met a family of Trekkers in Utah once - that was weird.

They even spooked the Mormons.

chickelit said...

I want to know more details about the polygraph administered by a former FBI person. How long ago was this carefully planned? Unfortunately, these days, FBI carries much less weight. Especially “former FBI.”

tcrosse said...

If you like Seinfeld, you're out - no ifs, ands, or buts about it. I don't get it

There's an episode where Elaine is dating a guy she thinks is black. He's not, but he thinks she's Hispanic. So they go to The Gap

Michael K said...

At least the accuser has a male "husband" but she is claiming "almost rape" for her marital troubles.

Dave Begley said...

I don't believe this smear of Kavanaugh.

She's donated to Dems. She's a pysch professor. No contemporaneous accounts to her girlfriends.

She's 15 and with 4 older boys alone at a party. She can't drive. Kavanaugh is headed into his senior year at Georgetown Prep. His mother is either a prosecutor or judge at that time. He's a starter on the football and basketball teams. He's very smart. He's Catholic. I don't care how drunk he may have been, he's not that stupid to try to rape a 15 year old frosh.

She says she thought he might "inadvertently kill her." But she got away from the two boys who were much bigger and stronger than her. Allegedly. If Kavanaugh and Mark Judge had wanted to pin her down, they could have easily done so.

She doesn't know how she got home. Odd. Very odd.

My guess is she was making out with Brett and he started to feel her up and she panicked. That's it.

This is "he said, she said" and I don't believe this woman's allegation of ATTEMPTED RAPE.

Rory said...

DBQ said: "Maybe it is an urban/rural divide. Maybe it is the age difference Millenials/Older people. Liberals/Deplorables."

The divide takes in a lot of territory, but the relevant divide is always the one that isolates people who can easily be separated from their money. That's who they're trying to reach, either by portraying those prople or reinforcing their beliefs.

The Crack Emcee said...

tim in vermont said...

"I might have Phoebe for a girlfriend, but that's not the same thing as having her make all of my life decisions, or any of them. And years after either I dumped her or she dumped me I wouldn't be obsessing over her and seeing her in every human relationship I had. Just saying, Crack."

Mr. Homeopathy Is Harmless is back - and trying to pull a Phoebe: now he's a a pop psychologist just like she is on the show! (It doesn't get any better than this:) "Phobes" is always ready to step in, without being asked, to "help" with "advice" when it would be best, if she was a "friend", to be quiet - remember: just like tim defends Homeopathy, Phobe says gravity and evolution are wrong - so she has nothing to offer but evil.

Just as tim's radiating here. The idea that NewAge, and alternative medicine, specifically, is dangerous - no matter how I discovered it - escapes him. He's got no science. He's got no evidence. No, he ignores all of it, because he's got a higher agenda than dealing with a social danger in America: bring me down. And use any means necessary. Decency? Means nothing. Drag up a divorce. Drag up whatever you can get your hands on, just make sure - when it comes to defending the indefensible - tim plays his part in evil, too. Phone would applaud him.

As a defender of homeopathy, he, too, is just the type who wants to see grown men apologizing to a cats.

FullMoon said...


Meanwhile, Anderson Cooper shows us how trustworthy CNN is

Standing in a ditch to show how deep the flood is is not that different from the weather man who can't stand up against the wind.

Believe that news. They are our betters.


Here is another. A woman reporter paddling canoe in 'flood water'.

Reporter in Canoe

Craig said...

Dave Begley said...
I don't believe this smear of Kavanaugh.

She's donated to Dems. She's a pysch professor. No contemporaneous accounts to her girlfriends.

She's 15 and with 4 older boys alone at a party. She can't drive. Kavanaugh is headed into his senior year at Georgetown Prep. His mother is either a prosecutor or judge at that time. He's a starter on the football and basketball teams. He's very smart. He's Catholic. I don't care how drunk he may have been, he's not that stupid to try to rape a 15 year old frosh.

She says she thought he might "inadvertently kill her." But she got away from the two boys who were much bigger and stronger than her. Allegedly. If Kavanaugh and Mark Judge had wanted to pin her down, they could have easily done so.

She doesn't know how she got home. Odd. Very odd.

My guess is she was making out with Brett and he started to feel her up and she panicked. That's it.

This is "he said, she said" and I don't believe this woman's allegation of ATTEMPTED RAPE.

9/16/18, 2:50 PM

---

Not surprising that there are malicious idiots around here. It is like you have no idea what it is to be a person or to be scared. I have no idea whether this happened, but none of the "reasons" in this comment are even remotely reasons to be skeptical of this woman.

Dave Begley said...

Craig:

This is a last minute political hit job to smear Kavanaugh and derail his nomination. If a 15 year old girl was nearly raped and nearly killed, don't you think she would have told her parents in real time, that is, over 30 years ago?

Dave Begley said...

Craig:

And YOU have no idea what happened. It is "he said, she said." Her BEST evidence is therapy notes from this century. Ha!

Craig said...

Dave Begley said...
Craig:

This is a last minute political hit job to smear Kavanaugh and derail his nomination. If a 15 year old girl was nearly raped and nearly killed, don't you think she would have told her parents in real time, that is, over 30 years ago?

9/16/18, 3:04 PM

---

I have no idea whether this is a last-minute political hit job. But no one is claiming she was nearly killed, and give me a break. Have you met 15 year olds ever?!

JPS said...

DBQ,

I’ve spent some time outdoors, thanks.

You and Michael K have my number on hunting, though. I have never been hunting.

I did, however, spend a year and half training to be a rifleman, followed by a few years of actually being one. I’m a big fan of Colonel Cooper’s rules, and if you shoot somene you didn’t intend to, you’ve violated a couple of them. You know, the whole “Don’t allow the barrel to point at anything you are not willing to destroy,” and the “Know your target. Know what it is, what’s to either side of it, and what’s behind it.” They’re really good ones. If you follow them, you generally won’t shoot anyone you didn’t want to.

But I’ll step off my soapbox now, in deference to you.

The Crack Emcee said...

tim in vermont said...

"Crack, maybe you can turn your pain I nto a song?"

Oh, tim, you're so late that's painful in itself.

Why you choose to add to my misery can only be because, well, that's what NewAgers do.

Craig said...

Dave Begley said...
Craig:

And YOU have no idea what happened. It is "he said, she said." Her BEST evidence is therapy notes from this century. Ha!

9/16/18, 3:05 PM

---

That I have no idea what happened doesn't mean that I can't recognize buffoonery claiming to have good reasons... _I_ didn't claim to know what happened.

FullMoon said...

This is a last minute political hit job to smear Kavanaugh and derail his nomination. If a 15 year old girl was nearly raped and nearly killed, don't you think she would have told her parents in real time, that is, over 30 years ago?

I wonder if a young girl would tell all her girlfriends that so-and-so tried to rape me and he and his friend are a couple of real assholes.
Assume most would and some wouldn't.

Also wonder is some sophomore girls might falsely tell her friends that 'popular senior boy ' made a pass at me and I turned him down. Some would and most wouldn't

Dave Begley said...

What you libs don't get is that Kavanaugh was acutely aware of the personal consequences to him if he would have attempted to rape this 15 year old girl. He knew right from wrong. His mother was either a prosecutor or judge. His life would have been totally ruined.

She's a whacked out leftist trying to save Roe v. Wade. She's been used by the political operatives in the Dem party.

She and her lawyer (Wisconsin Law alum) knew exactly how this would play out. This is Anita Hill 2.0 but even worse. I say let her get cross examined by the Senate committee. There will be lots of "I don't recall." It will not be a pretty sight.

This woman has zero credibility.

Arashi said...

She is accusing Judge Kavanaugh of serious charges. She needs to confront the accused in a court of law or retract the allegations and shut the hell up.

You are innocent until proven guilty - and since she is alleging what sound like felonies, that means beyond a reasonable doubt, I believe.

But since we are no longer a Nation of Laws, we will let the lying media tell us what to think and do a high tech lynching of Judge Kavanaugh for the ratings boost.

It is all very disturbing.

The Crack Emcee said...

tcrosse said...

"There's an episode where Elaine is dating a guy she thinks is black. He's not, but he thinks she's Hispanic. So they go to The Gap"

I'm cracking up - and why would she take him to a Spanish restaurant if she thought he was black? I mean, we eat a lot of "Spanish steak" now, but, is that really Spanish?

That's more cringe comedy, BTW - it's the best kind nowadays.

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