I'm used to being the blogger, and readers come to me, and they comment here. Over on Facebook, I'm a passive reader and an occasional commenter. I do very bland posts of my own sometimes, mostly of the here's-how-Lake-Mendota-looked-today kind.
I should probably never comment on a political thread (other than my son John's posts, which are feel very much like a blog I'd love to read outside of Facebook). But I do sometimes see awful things that other people have written and feel called to say, for example, as I wrote yesterday (not on one of John's posts), "Eliminationist rhetoric. Humans visualized as insects. Is this where you want to go?"
The response I got from this person made me want to sign off Facebook and never look back.
IN THE COMMENTS: rhhardin said:
So there's some insect-related hot button so far unrevealed.Thanks for prompting me to add my "insect politics" tag.
Posts
89 comments:
So there's some insect-related hot button so far unrevealed.
Sounds good to me. Eliminate facebook and visualize Zuckerberg as a creeping insect.
What was the response?
I quit posting ANYTHING on FB after the 2016 election as people were hysterical. That is, I think, the best word to accurately describe the online behavior of my “friends”. This is the only place I ever comment now.
made me want to sign off Facebook and never look back
Sorry this happened to you. I do wish Facebook was more of a forum of decorum. It would be valuable to people like me who have never signed on to Facebook, though I do look at others Facebook pages on occasion.
Despite how vile it can be people must derive enough value from Facebook to overcome the vile. I'm leaving Facebook rings as hollow as I'm moving to Canada because Trump!. Perhaps people sometimes act irrationally?
Or can't break bad habits.
During the years when I worked on the development of internet tech, I hoped that the tech would lead to a cultural flowering.
But, the only thing people want to talk about is politics.
Nothing else gives you that jolt of dopamine.
The more bored and lonely a person becomes, the more he obsesses about politics.
It is an interesting and ultimately discouraging dynamic on Facebook. People adopt postures that they would never embrace face to face. You read things that make people sound like total idiots, and then they defend them as though they are their deepest thoughts.
"What was the response?"
I'm not sure if the thread is a public one, and I don't really want to channel attention to this person.
I had contact with a few writers in the mystery genre (no big names) on FB who completely lost their shit over Trump. They were absolutely sure the camps were opening the next day.
I wish I could have told them to lighten up, Francis, but they were so distraught that they wouldn't hear of it. It was for my own peace of mind that I had to cut the cord.
Facebook is toxic.
Think of it as earthy.
I'll just say that the person had characterized Kavanaugh as a cockroach that could be stepped on but there are always so many cockroaches that you can't kill them all. After my comment, the person doubled down and also attacked me for using fancy language. He put "(sic)" after my word "eliminationist" — twice!
I've felt that way. I have unfollowed about half my friends because I don't want to know their politics. On a larger level, I've vacilated on whether it's right for me to turn decisively away from news and politics all together. I would inform myself at certain intervals in order to be a responsible voter, but what other good does surfing the waves of outrage do? Why whip myself into a lather everyday? The news makes me exhausted and sad and angry. My husband and children don't deserve an exhausted and sad and angry wife and mother. It may be time for me to make a complete exit.
I gave up on Facebook during the 2016 election. Because of the endless stupidity about politics. I was losing respect for people I'd known a long time. I tried very hard never to respond to political posts, but it's hard when they are so carelessly vicious. I planned on going back after the election, but I didn't miss it. I was surprised at how easy it was to not check in.
I go back occasionally, but only because it's how certain members of my family talk to each other and I need to catch up on the news (like the one millennial niece who announced her engagement by changing her facebook status.
Did it involve a pubic hair and a coke can.
"The more bored and lonely a person becomes, the more he obsesses about politics."
Does that include Marxist feminism?
He put "(sic)" after my word "eliminationist" — twice!
Cold rationality beats moron. Use it to extend the thread as far as you can. The right people notice the contrast.
Any stereotypical woman-type response on the other hand is difficult to distinguish from moron, so you get no good contrast.
The new facebook complex a few miles town-ward from me is huge now. Road widening, sidewalks installed, walk and don't walk signs installed, cornfields all around.
If you build it they will come, is the theory. Nobody around yet.
"Cold rationality beats moron. Use it to extend the thread as far as you can. The right people notice the contrast."
I think rh defined his stylistic approach here.
Movies, television, news, social media, sports. I've stopped mourning what they were or what I want them to be and accepted the realities of what they are. I still manage to carve out satisfaction- in small wedges.
I think rh defined his stylistic approach here.
Who knew he had a system?
I quit FB the morning of Election Day. I had a week-long countdown to let everyone know.
It was clear it was only going to get worse, no matter who won.
Does that include Marxist feminism?
Yes, and I don't obsess about that either. It just seems that way to you. You live in an environment, academia, where everybody has agreed not to notice the obvious because doing so would be a career ender.
I'm busy. Choral rehearsal last night. Auditions for accompanist and church organist gigs coming up and I'm raising grandkids.
After I'm done drinking a cup of coffee, I'll be rehearsing for two hours. Babysitting as soon as the 5 year old gets back from kindergarten.
I agree that that's pretty much always the best approach for countering moron.
rhhardin said...Cold rationality beats moron. Use it to extend the thread as far as you can. The right people notice the contrast.
Yep. Whenever you are in an internet argument, you are not trying to convince the other person, you are trying to convince the dozens or hundreds of persuadable people quietly reading your exchange. If one of you is crazy, those people will notice and naturally gravitate towards the not crazy one. So if you want to win, never be the crazy one.
I will occasionally go to FB and read. I never post and I almost never comment and those tend to be one word, e.g. "nice", "congratulations".
I'm kind of done with FB. I think it will be a new trend.
This Kavanaugh thing will flip all sorts of rational people from D to R.
Last night on Maddow, Hillary complained that Democrats and Republicans are treated differently by law enforcement. This is from the woman who got the get out of jail free card from the FBI.
The tide has gone out and we are now seeing who’s swimming naked.
I unfollow people who develop a political monomania. One guy was posting multiple stories every hour for weeks and weeks about why he hated Trump.
Just-- please -- keep politics out of my cute cat videos.
An orange cat can be depicted without a Trump reference. Really.
I am Laslo.
We’ve all had similar experiences and it proves beyond all doubt that many “smart” people are actually tribal and provincial and let virtue signaling run their lives. I like to compare social media to being in 7th grade.
Of course, now I am imagining the comments if Althouse was to post a cute cat video with an orange cat.
Or a black cat, for that matter.
Or, heaven forbid, a Maine Coon. It would probably be wise to approach niggardly in posting those.
I am Laslo.
My Facebook friends are people I’ve had connections with (high school, college, work family etc). They span the political spectrum and I like that. Some are politically obsessed (left and right). I will periodically challenge some political posts in a “is that really true” sort of way but I do so less often than in the past. Once you get to much into the debate you lose sight of why they’re a Facebook friend and they become “one of them”. I don’t want old friends and acquaintances to become “one of them”.
And of course the greatest temptation is to comment on some of the crazy posts of friends of friends; don’t do it.
I assume many commenters here are one of those “friend of a friend” who start or get into Facebook fights.
Instagram is becoming a nice alternative: a nice picture and then move on. And it goes away after awhile.
My manager came in a few weeks ago. He made mild comment supportive of Trump on a college friends facebook thread. Another of the friends' friends then decided to dox my manager and supposedly sent notes to our employer that he should be fired. Our employer was never part of the discussion, but the person decided attacking a guy personally by threatening his job was an appropriate response. My manager had never heard of the word "dox" or concept.
Nothing happened, since we work for a company that actually does believe in free speech and expression. Also, its a large enough company that nonsense like this is usually ignored.
I still monitor FB, for friends in college and my local neighborhood has a good group discussion. Otherwise, I tend to avoid politics. My experience has been exactly the same as dustbunny. I defriended a few people because of their hysteria. I just couldn't read these people, who I thought perfectly normal person, be so deranged on FB. But I've also had days were I had to quit the whole thing for quite awhile.
By the way, this whole topic is why I don't believe polls. There is a lot of people made silent from this hysteria. They don't want to participate in it, but they likewise will not be cowed by it.
I went off permanently just a few weeks ago. Like you said, never looking back.
Some of the worst anti-Trumpers on my FB feed are family and a life-long friend. I've become adept at ignoring. I never respond. I've really cut back on FB now. Instagram -- all pictures -- is more enjoyable.
Freeman Hunt said...
I think rh defined his stylistic approach here.
I hadn't noticed...
The internet feels to me like my car where I can swear and it is not really happening but I know it is really a public cafe and manners are required. Not everyone is there yet.
I have met a few really interesting people on FB.
One is a guy who has worked as a defense analyst for both the U.S. and Israel. He's an Orthodox Jew. We've had lunch together a few times and I plan to invite him to the next big back yard party for the kids. He's hoping for some grandkids soon.
I also befriended a math professor, actually head of the math department at a SUNY campus, also an Orthodox Jew. We Catholics have a lot in common with the Orthodox. His girlfriend was a delightfully raunchy retired singer in Irish bands. I attended their party for their new house last summer. I had been meeting Mark frequently for lunch to discuss (gasp!) math and programming concepts.
Unfortunately, fate intervened. It's tough making new friends in my late 60s. Mark was diagnosed with brain cancer and died a few days ago. His girlfriend's lifetime of alcoholism caught up with her suddenly last summer and her system exploded. She's dead, too.
I do wish Facebook was more of a forum of decorum.
Facebook isn't the problem, people are. Would it be better to go through life without understanding how people really think? You might think you'd be happier. But I think you'd be more frustrated because people don't react as you expect because you misunderstand their values and motivations.
The more bored and lonely a person becomes, the more he obsesses about politics.
Politics is the only thing all Americans have in common, and it requires (effectively) no knowledge to participate. Developing useful expertise is hard, repeating talking points is easy.
I got off Facebook temporarily in the 2016 primaries when I got in two stupid arguments with people I like about Bernie vs. Hillary. The temptation to leap in with a put down or a punchline is too much.
I got off Facebook completely last year when it became all about Trump all the time. It's a landfill.
I made a comment on one of my wife's cousins page which comes up occasionally. I compared the number of aborted babies to two thousand children Trump had ignored and the tsunami that came back was interesting. The cousin apologized to all his followers, deleted the post and said I watched Fox News. The only problem is we don't have cable.
The reactions to the Kavanaugh thing are very interesting. Given the state of the evidence, a fair minded and rational person can reach only two conclusions. She’s mistaking him for someone else or this is a elaborate and planned lie. Given the behavior of lawyer Katz, I’m inclined to believe this is a planned lie. Isn’t it odd that the only other witness is an admitted alcoholic who wrote a book about his HS drinking.
I almost never accept "friend" requests unless I know them from elsewhere and I have blocked several hundred people who sound nuts.
Half of my facebook posts are picture of my bat house or owl house.
I stay there only for family and a few friends I have known on the internet for ten years or more, going back to Cathy Seipp's blog.
I went to Cathy's funeral with Patrick Frey, who has sadly succumbed to TDS.
It's tough making new friends in my late 60s
Truth. I'm not quite there (agewise) but the ability to connect does dwindle. And then the old friends start dying too, so you lose the friends you have and can't make new ones. Suddenly you're more and more alone.
Growing old is not for the weak.
I was an early unadopter. I dropped off FB years ago. Too many posts from people screaming about their favorite issue...
Truth. I'm not quite there (agewise) but the ability to connect does dwindle. And then the old friends start dying too, so you lose the friends you have and can't make new ones. Suddenly you're more and more alone.
I read a book- it was pretty good, not fantastic- but the author kept making the point that the friends you make later in life only know you as that older person. They don't know all your experiences, and the times you were beautiful with your youth.
I hate Facebook for politics. People are used to being able to be online and say whatever they want, but they do it on Facebook and they don't want to be disagreed with. They can say the wrongest stuff and only the most brave and foolish people dare to disagree.
So much easier to ignore and focus on other things, the good in people or their real life challenges.
The only good thing about Facebook is Marketplace.
A rhetorical question based on observing this thread; how many people here tolerate or support Trump quit Facebook because of TDS?
Now how much BS is it that Russians bought ads on Facebook that influenced the election to go towards Trump?
The tempting thing is to blow away comments that Trump is Hitler!! by people you know don't even read books, much less read history books.
I mean it might be interesting to compare and contrast Trump with various historical leaders but you need to know a few facts.
I could squash the ignorant posters like bugs but I don't believe in that. Faith, hope and charity, and all that.
As for cool rationality, many onlookers seem to think you've lost if you're viciously bloodied in a debate.
I still use FB, but for a specific purpose... To inform my family of my whereabouts when on the road. A quick photo or phrase is all I do. I have unfollowed many "friends" on both sides of the political spectrum to avoid reading their thoughts on the controversy de jure. I don't care what they think; if I want thoughtful commentary I go to blogs like AA. If I do FB-post on other stuff, I am for mom and apple pie. Twitter and FB need to bluecheck, verify every user, like AirBNB, or fade into oblivion.
"The news makes me exhausted and sad and angry"
This is the intended effect. Constant hair-on-fire ultra-hysterical screeching over this hour's outrage that Trump has perpetrated on a loving and caring universe. It is intended to drive people away, to cause them to WANT to not participate in the process. Democracy doesn't die in darkness. It dies in exhaustion and apathy.
I have FB set up so only friends of my current friends can send me friend requests.
Also, I have no current friends.
So it's peaceful.
"This is the intended effect. Constant hair-on-fire ultra-hysterical screeching over this hour's outrage that Trump has perpetrated on a loving and caring universe. It is intended to drive people away, to cause them to WANT to not participate in the process. Democracy doesn't die in darkness. It dies in exhaustion and apathy."
I think you're probably right on some level, although it won't have that effect on me. I'll still vote my strongly held beliefs every chance I get. I just don't need to be worked into a lather by each outrage of the hour....
"It dies in exhaustion and apathy."
That's not really true. Exhaustion may cause many people to stop commenting or even reading the hysterics. But it doesn't cause them to not vote.
I am increasingly ambivalent about Trump. 2017 was a big success. 2018 will, I think, see him throwing off the Mueller albatross. Be that as it may, I am getting tired of the drama, misdirection, and questionable trade policy.
The Never-Trumpers have some valid criticisms, but they can't see the forest because all the trees get in the way. Good-bye Weekly Standard and National Review.
However, the Dems appear much worse. Do we want them in charge? They have gone beyond derangement.
GOP in 2018. Trump in 2020.
I often feel like signing off from this blog and never looking back after reading a comment by Crack. Solution? I stopped reading Crack's comments.
Anyway, I don't comment on Facebook and I rarely even go to it. I'm required to have a presence on it for my job. I check it about once a month.
Jessica said @ 6:44 AM: "I've felt that way. I have unfollowed about half my friends because I don't want to know their politics. On a larger level, I've vacilated on whether it's right for me to turn decisively away from news and politics all together. I would inform myself at certain intervals in order to be a responsible voter, but what other good does surfing the waves of outrage do? Why whip myself into a lather everyday? The news makes me exhausted and sad and angry. My husband and children don't deserve an exhausted and sad and angry wife and mother. It may be time for me to make a complete exit."
Well said, Jessica. My sentiments EXACTLY.
Be that as it may, I am getting tired of the drama, misdirection, and questionable trade policy.
I am too but has anyone ever seen anything like this TDS? I am listening to Sheryl Atkinson's book, The Smear.
When it gets too crazy, I go to my DeGaulle biography. I've decided to study French again.
the author kept making the point that the friends you make later in life only know you as that older person.
I get together with medical school classmates and medical school faculty members I know.
Plus a big family. I feel sorry for childless people.
Online personality may be the most honest version we project. It's like the saying that "Good character is doing the right thing when nobody is watching". Being anonymous or at least out of reach leaves only your self-discipline to control your baser instincts. Hold on, I just remembered something. There's porn on this thing! I'll be back.
Reading posts like yours just reaffirms my decision to never have a Facebook account. I see no personal value in it and have other things to do to fill my time. Perhaps all those OPSEC briefings in the military influenced my decision. I simply see no need in putting out so much personal information about myself.
@Laslo:
If you’re caught posting a video with a Maine Coon, just claim that it’s a Norwegian Forest Cat. No one will be able to prove otherwise. . at least not before a thorough FBI investigation is completed.
Just wondering. Is the TV hung upside down in a bat house?
I still FB. Mostly motorcycle trips, family, pets, vacations and the like. I've built up a fairly large, digital photo collection of family both current and from years gone by through FB.
I've had a strict policy since the election, you send me a "Trump is a god!" link, I block that link. Send me a "Trump is the devil" and I'll block that too. Same with other political crap. I've found most of what appears is simple, "Look at THIS!" stuff rather than ranting with your own words.
FWIW, I had a similar, but less strict policy before the last election. I kept getting, "Read this! Hillary will be in jail by Monday!!!!!" crap. Blocked those too. But the volume after 2016 made skipping over this stuff bothersome.
Doxing a person trying to get them fired is horrible.
Be nice if Althouse would review sjw always lie.
Althouse
I know the feeling. On the other hand Facebook is a great place to see with your own eyes exactly how poorly informed, brainwashed, conformist, stupid are your "friends."
Thanks Laslo!
I will never look at my Orange Tabby the same again.
My interpretstions of actions will be filtered by my view of Trump.
He is very Trumpian.
Hillary was the Queen Bee.
Amusing a tag exists for insect politics.
I also have dialed Facebook way, way back. And I never, ever click on the ads.
Has Facebook jumped the shark?
Degaulle thought he was clever courting the pied noirs and paratrooper supporters them they turned on him, because he had no intention of keeping his promises, salan the leader of the oas was more pro israel.
bagoh20 said...
Online personality may be the most honest version we project... Being anonymous or at least out of reach leaves only your self-discipline to control your baser instincts.
They say in vino veritas. Maybe they should add in anonimity a-holery
They probably saw themselves in tje same vein as thr Israeli settlers.
Many friends & family have mostly left facebook. Instagram & twitter are more popular. I'm not on it for socializing locally. I never talk politics on facebook.
I get information from local groups that post stuff-to-do for kids. I'm on a couple of interest groups, recipe groups, horse show times. My club & church have a facebook page. Good to be reminded about upcoming activities & stuff to do with the kids.
People are not on facebook to get into political arguments. People want likes on facebook. The site is not designed to be a debate forum. Stuff turns into DRAMA.
It's easy to get pulled into the DRAMA of what's happening in politics right this second!! Nothing is happening I can't learn about two weeks from now. But who has time for that? Takes time away from talking about other things I'd rather have in my life.
When I joined Facebook in 2009 I quickly adopted two philosophical choices: 1. Never post anything you would not want to see tomorrow on the front page of the New York Times and 2. No discussions whatsoever of politics or religion. New friends are informed of this. Violators get one warning, then are unfriended and blocked. Most people understand, and many say they enjoy my page (which is mostly humor and nature photos) as a respite from all the venom they see elsewhere. I had one friend from 40 years who announced he didn't care what my policy was and I removed him immediately.
What about other's political posts? If I find them obnoxious, I simply unfollow them without unfriending; they can still see and comment on my page but I don't have to listen to their crap in my newsfeed. My system works well for me, I have over 1,000 friends, of which I would say about 300 actually interact with me frequently. I only unfriend maybe 4 or 5 a year. I find Facebook very entertaining, but you have to manage your page with some thought.
"Sorry, Meade, I can't come to bed == someone is wrong on Facebook."
To answer OGH's question: Yes. I quit trying to comment or make any headway on any controversial Facebook topics. Long-time friendly acquaintances---intelligent folk who think of themselves as rational and fair-minded---would post outright lies. Ridiculous claims, such as a meme featuring a non-existent quote from Ted Cruz that "anyone who's father isn't an American citizen can't run for President." Even when I linked to sources they would trust, such as Snopes or NYT, they would never acknowledge or take it back. How could they ever have thought this to be a true fact to begin with? Insanity! I think constantly about cutting out Facebook completely, because I can't stand to wade into that hate and nonsense again, but I do still have friends and family who reach out that way. So I log on every day and glance quickly to see if there is a message from a friend, or a top post about my cousin's baby daughter, and only look that far. My mental and spiritual health are much the better for staying away.
A rhetorical question based on observing this thread; how many people here tolerate or support Trump quit Facebook because of TDS? }}}
Quit Facebook! Would that the problem of TDS were that easily fenced off in my real life! I have quit EVERYTHING that could possibly trigger a thought of Trump or politics with those I come into contact with every day, other than my immediate family. You can't say anything at all without a high risk of a severe reaction. My next-door neighbor's yard displays about 8 anti-Trump and GOP signs, 24-7. Trump is Putin's puppet. The GOP is a criminal organization. They also have an upside-down American flag. I am grateful in a way that I am accordingly warned to be on guard.
bagoh20 said...
Online personality may be the most honest version we project. It's like the saying that "Good character is doing the right thing when nobody is watching". Being anonymous or at least out of reach leaves only your self-discipline to control your baser instincts. Hold on, I just remembered something. There's porn on this thing! I'll be back.
You all think you are anonymous on the internet.
You aren't. Not one bit.
It is depressingly easy for facebook/google to connect someone to these comments for example. And unless you are using tor they know where you are posting from no matter what browser you use. More it only takes a couple times not on tor and they know where.
It is funny when people change their posting handle and think that does anything to mask their account.
Unfollowed almost all my friends who posted politics. People who post politics rarely want a discussion, they want agreement. Since I almost never agree, there's no reason to read their feed.
Same dynamic is true here, but at least Althouse commenters WANT to argue I know that going in.
Also, the phenomenon of people losing their shit over the President is bipartisan. Remember that one guy who was President until 2017?
The President doesn't know you and doesn't care about you. Letting him into your head 24/7 is a waste of time. You're wasting your life if you do this. The whole politicized media wants you to spend time on politics without compensation. It's unpaid labor.
Remember, these politicians work for us. Spouting the slogans they give us and getting upset when they want us to get upset is a trick. They want us to work for them. Don't cooperate. Don't get mad when you are prodded. Don't play the game.
I don't have a team, I'm not on a side, and I know this because people are always mad at me when I have a political discussion. Doesn't matter what side they are on. That's good.
It's appalling how many people, mainly liberals, seem to see the President as a father figure. Psychologically they act like clients who have an abusive father. The thing is, the President doesn't know them. It's the individual client who chooses to see the President as a family member instead of what he is in reality, just another public official in a long line of public officials.
If Trump is keeping you awake at night, it's your fault. Even if you believe he's a threat to democracy you should be able to think about that without being emotionally triggered as if your parents hated you. Turn off the news and get out more. The best defense against tyranny is to have a life. Then you know what's actually a problem and what is hype.
Facebook has its uses.
Discussing anything politically tinged isn't one of them.
I quit posting ANYTHING on FB after the 2016 election as people were hysterical. That is, I think, the best word to accurately describe the online behavior of my “friends”. - DB
I let my friends - on both sides - spew their crap for about a week after the election. I then gave one warning to knock it off. Didn't care if was R or D.
Unfriend, block and cleared out the crap. People I'd known for 40 years. If the only thing keeping us connected was their political bullshit? Then see ya.
Now it's down to 350 or so friends with vacation shots, first days of school and just a nice place to keep in touch.
I have no FB presence and I seldom visit because I don’t want to see my daughter’s ridiculous leftie posts. We’re peas of the same pod and I love her dearly, but somewhere she made an unsignaled left turn. Best not to get riled up about it.
- Krumhorn
The only sane thing to do with your facebook account is to delete it.
permanently.
Yeah, about every 7-10 days. OTOH, though, I've stopped responding to peoples' idiotic comments re Obama being 'The Lightbringer' and the best thing that ever happened to America. Doing so has made FB more enjoyable.
It is impossible to convince people to change their point of view and every second spent doing it is a second I would never get back so I no longer engage those dopes.
Bill Peschel said...
I had contact with a few writers in the mystery genre (no big names) on FB who completely lost their shit over Trump. They were absolutely sure the camps were opening the next day.
I wish I could have told them to lighten up, Francis, but they were so distraught that they wouldn't hear of it. It was for my own peace of mind that I had to cut the cord.
Facebook is toxic.
Well, I've had contact with two: Nelson DeMille and Lawrence Bloch. DeMille NEVER talks politics and his notices and responses are fun and civil. Bloch, on the other hand, went absolutely belligerently bonkers and insulting when he learned that not everyone of his fans agreed with his political views and total hatred of Trump. I lost all interest in him and his writing because of this. No great loss to him but then I only got his books from the library so he never got any of my money.
OTOH, though, I've stopped responding to peoples' idiotic comments re Obama being 'The Lightbringer' and the best thing that ever happened to America.
I was recently reminded of the 52 to 48 project. It was an internet campaign about how we all have to come together as Americans. Even those who voted against Obama should work with him.
I'm pretty sure I know what all the people behind that are doing this time around.
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