Said Twitter CEO Jack Dorsey, quoted in "Twitter CEO Jack Dorsey: I 'fully admit' our bias is 'more left-leaning.'" (The Hill).
Here, watch the video. Dorsey's key distinction is between viewpoint and what he calls "behavior." Now, if it's on Twitter, it's speech, but there's this idea that sometimes speech is behavior, but when? It could be limited the way it is in First Amendment law to things like "true threats," but it could be extended to insults or stereotyping. It depends on what the meaning of "behavior" is.
"We do not look at content with regards to political viewpoint or ideology," @Jack told me. But he knows some people do not believe him. "I think we need to constantly show that we are not adding our own bias, which I fully admit is left, is more left-leaning," he says... pic.twitter.com/1i8jJunhfz
— Brian Stelter (@brianstelter) August 18, 2018
Dorsey is a good spokesperson, and I like that he's taking free speech ideas seriously in the abstract and asking for trust as he applies these principles. He's got to be watched and pressured to handle his power according to the principles he says he's following. It's fine that he's up front about the left-wing bias of his organization. That's good for putting him to the test.
Posts
314 comments:
«Oldest ‹Older 201 – 314 of 314Come one, come all - learn all about the industry John Henry was part of! I got so much material it'll damn him before anyone with the time:
"Hatch a 'Natural Ally' of the supplement industry"
Mormons are a cult, cults engage in fraud, maybe John Henry even worked with cults to defraud Americans?
American Patriot Material Here!!!!
re: Vitamins
I don't know if vitamins are helpful. I take a multivitamin just to make sure. It doesn't cost much and it doesn't do any harm.
One thing I learned when consulting to the Pharma industry is that almost all drugs have a 10% or better placebo effect. The industry has a ton of data because they have to perform Phase Three trials with humans that compare their drug (blindly) to a similar drug on the market and a sugar pill.
IOW, if I think the multivitamin will help, it just might.
"When talking on issues that he most deeply cares about, [Professor Ben] Goldacre is exceptionally engaging. He talked of his outrage over the Wakefield MMR [anti-vaccine] scandal, not only because of the dodgy scientific methods involved, but also because of the mistreatment of some of the children upon whom Wakefield tested. Similarly his libel battle with Matthias Rath (the vitamin supplement entrepreneur who sued following Goldacre's criticism of Rath's selling of vitamin supplements to AIDS sufferers, it is claimed, as an alternative to anti-retroviral medication) was touched upon, but again Goldacre's concern seems to be primarily focussed on the devastating and unnecessary loss of life from such ignorance."
- Oxford University
Not John Henry! He wants the MONEY!!!!
Crack Emcee: "Not if you were in Germany and killing Jews."
So, uh, John Henry, where exactly WERE you last Wednesday night? Huh? HUH?!!
I dunno...I dunno....I was...I was...at the movies...yeah, that's the ticket. I was at the movies see? Sure, sure, that's it. At the movies. I didn't even see any of those jews..."
Who said anything about "jews" John Henry? I didn't say anything about "jews". Detective O'Flaherty there, he didn't say nuttin' about any "jews"....so how'd you know about the "jews" John Henry? Hmmm? HMMMMM?!
I dunno. I dunno. I must have...must have....uh.....read it in the paper! Yeah, that's it. That's the ticket. Sure...sure...I read it in the papers see?...See?!!....."
Blogger The Crack Emcee said...
I know you criminals worked the law
This is getting bizzare, even for you. It's why I love you, Crack. You are more fun than even Squeamish!
Now I have to take my wife to dinner. We are going to go culturally appropriate some Mexican food at our favorite restaurant. (Lolitas in Fajardo if you are ever in the area)
I hate to take a post like this off topic but I have a serious question: Is it still cultural appropriation if the food is cooked by Puerto Ricans speaking Spanish over the stove?
What if it is eaten by on actual puerto Rican and another (me) who identifies as Puerto Rican? Does this get us a pass? If I speak English, does it invalidate the pass?
OTOH, yesterday our daughter took us to a fish place. Since we are not fish, this was probably cultural appropriation as well.
I confess: I am guilty, guilty, guilty. And hungry and my conscience doesn't have a thing to say.
John Henry
Francisco D said...
"I don't know if vitamins are helpful. I take a multivitamin just to make sure. It doesn't cost much and it doesn't do any harm."
What do multivitamins do? They render your urine more expensive!
Why don't you guys research what you do and say, before you do or say it?
Crack: "Not John Henry! He wants the MONEY!!!!"
Well, uh, hmmm, and look, I'm not sayin' I agree with anything or not. I'm just thinking out loud here, get it?
So, uh, since are already talking about it... how much money, exactly, are we talking about?.....
Senator Orrin Hatch, the supplement industry, and “utter lack of integrity”
Come on - let's compare notes!
John Henry: "Now I have to take my wife to dinner."
Yeah, criminally take her to dinner you mean.....
Crack: "Come on - let's compare notes!"
Uh, I don't think Senator Hatch can actually hear you......
Does my wife's African ancestry help at all, Crack?
Not sure why it would but I would appreciate a ruling.
John Henry
Scientists seem to come to the same conclusion, and it's not that John Henry is a patriot, but that his clients are fools - and he's happy to take advantage of them:
Supplements: Flushing your money down the toilet in expensive urine
I knew it!
Vitamins do nothing.
TCE says so, because SCIENCE, you guys.
Pre-natal vitamins are the exception that proves the rule.
Obviously.
Look, i'd love to hang around and shoot the breeze with Crack and any other street corner carnival barker like him, 'cuz sometimes it's amusing.
But I have to go unload these crates of supplements on all my pyramid-scheme employees who in turn sell them to all their friends.
In the immortal words of Whiz and the Ice-man, "mo money, mo money MO MONEY!!!"
Drago,
Let me know offline johnfajardohenry@gmail.com what you have in mind and I'll be happy to send you a proposal.
As I said, anything legal. That includes washing windows or mopping floor. I am godawful expensive for washing windows but, pay my rate and I'll do it.
You'g get more value hiring me to teach you to be lazy.
John Henry
John Henry: "Does my wife's African ancestry help at all, Crack?"
I'm not sure it's helpful to appeal to his already significantly overdeveloped God-complex.
Soap with scent included?
War crime?
I'm not going to argue with liars who deny science, and reality, while admitting to being only for money.
Your standards have always been clear here. You don't have any, beyond being hypocrites.
Straight lye is the only truth.
Speaking of pyramid schemes, Crack
Any thoughts on the detergents, toothpaste and so on that Amway makes?
Could my wife give you a call about some Tupperware?
John Henry
Birkel: "Soap with scent included?
War crime?"
That depends. How much "R-E-S-P-I-C-T" (thank you Al Sharpie-tone) did you give Crack today?
Drago,
My respict for TCE never varies.
Crack Emcee: "I'm not going to argue with liars who deny science, and reality, while admitting to being only for money"
Many's the day Crack Emcee hath toiled in his lab.
Fighting against the "big boys",
the lawyers,
the entrenched interests.....Nay, even time itself.
All to gather up the sound scientific evidence,
produced with rigorous scientific rigor and analytical standards,
that would shred, scientifically, ALL the arguments who would stand in the way of his truth.
But then, unexpectedly, he felt a stronger urge to offer up blather on some blogsite somewhere.
Alas, it was not to be.
"If Twitter exercises editorial control, they are liable for defamation on their platform.
I look forward to their bankruptcy litigation"
If I remember correctly, we are talking Section 230 of the Communications Decency Act (CDA), which provides a safe harbor from liability for Internet Service Providers. The problem is that editing content, at some point, takes them from being an ISP to being a publisher, which does have tort liability (not just defamation, but also other torts such as copyright infringement, invasions of privacy, etc).(I suspect that § 230 also protects against contract and criminal liability, but not sure).
I wonder how much "science" Crack is actually familiar with?
And no, reading one article in a leftover 1983 Time Magazine in the dentist's office probably won't count.
Supplements are bad.
I get that, because SCIENCE and New Age.
Pre-natal vitamins are a supplement.
But TCE types that they are fine.
So not all supplements, as admitted.
Rail away, TCE.
Non-falsifiable opinion is your best argument.
On my side, facts and articles from scientists. On their side: shit talking.
Strike Three for Multivitamin Use
”Vitamin supplementation is unnecessary for the vast majority of people.”
- Pharmacy-Based Medicine
My body, my choice: From dietary supplements to the emergency room
"Supplements are about as close to unregulated as you can imagine, thanks to a law known as the Dietary Supplement Health and Education Act of 1994, or the DSHEA. Indeed, just last week, I wrote a post about a legislator whom I like to refer to as the lapdog of the supplement industry, namely Republican Senator Orrin Hatch of Utah, who, teamed up with his fellow defender of pseudoscience and the Senator who foisted the scientific atrocity that is the National Center for Complementary and Alternative Medicine (NCCAM) upon us, Senator Tom Harkin of Iowa, has crushed any and all attempts to strengthen the DSHEA and remove potential abuses."
- Dr. David Gorski
That's why a criminal like John Henry is so cocky: the big cultists, like the Mormons, have got his back.
Stupid Iodine making my salt expensive!
https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/nejmoa040541
Supplements good for people with HIV.
John Henry only half a Nazi?
It's kind of a one drop thang Birkel.
What's the scoop on the supposed uselessness of multivitamin supplements?
There is a lot of buzz around a set of scientific papers that calls into question the effectiveness of multivitamin supplements. Let me add a few notes to the buzz as the vitamin supplement industry licks its wounds and scrambles to protect the goose that lays its golden egg. And it’s a valuable egg.
John Henry's eating on it, right now. Probably letting his wife think he's a big man for ripping people off. Incredible, what passes for integrity, in some circles.
Crack Emcee: "On my side, facts and articles from scientists."
LOL
Do the scientists know that they are on your side?
Wouldn't it be polite to let them know?
Crack: "That's why a criminal like John Henry is so cocky: the big cultists, like the Mormons, have got his back."
whistles softly and begins backing away slowly...
Among healthy postmenopausal women, calcium with vitamin D supplementation resulted in a small but significant improvement in hip bone density, did not signifi- cantly reduce hip fracture, and increased the risk of kidney stones. (ClinicalTrials.gov number, NCT00000611.)
http://www1.cmc.edu/pages/faculty/MONeill/Math152/Handouts/calciumstudy.pdf
So, fewer hip fractures and more kidney stones.
Significantly fewer? Research says no but one wonders if a person who had a hip fracture would consider one fewer “significant” or not.
I can't be completely sure, but I'm going to go out on a limb and just presume that Crack Emcee was not really a part of the team that created those scientific studies.
Though I'm very impressed Crack has arrived to take charge of the situation after all the hard work was complete...
Just sayin'....
That’s it!
I will now refuse my Flintstones.
"Tom Harkin and Orrin Hatch. Well now. A member of the Democrat wing of the NewAge cult and a member of the NewAge Mormon cult, working together on something another of their kind has already heavily invested in."
But it's all totally on-the-level,...
Crack,
If you want to talk science perhaps we should whip shoul our dicks out and see who has more.
Oops, did I say dicks? I meant science degrees.
I'll go first: 2 undergrad and graduate
Plus years of experience.
Your turn.
John Henry
You know, some people believe that it takes dedication to academic study and years and years of painstaking research to identify, in a rigorously scientific way, what the objective scientific truth is regarding certain subjects.
Turns out....NOPE! Just show up on a blogsite and take credit for everything!
Shazaam!
That's also like, totally cool.
In all honesty, I have not taken vitamins or supplements.
I’m not a fan of putting things into my body outside of food and beverage.
I like the paleo diet and avoid carbs.
I like to exercise and break a sweat once a day.
But there is nothing more fun than mockery of online commandos.
Stick around.
"AUGUST 19, 2018
AT AMAZON, save on Vitamins and Dietary Supplements."
Instapundit, right now. Making that money, Baby, with values Suge Knight would respect
John Henry,
I am hoping to reduce your Naziism to a quarter.
An eighth if we do well in jury selection .
Broadening the discussion a bit from Twitter, to other such services, I note that Dennis Prager and his PragerU are being shadow banned and deplatform end on YouTube. Legal Insurrection was shut out of Amazon (just surprised that both Instapundit and Ann are still Associates there). Think about it for a minute - if you saw either Prager or Bill Jacobson walking down the street, neither would be the least intimidating. Both are gray haired middle aged Jews, and look it. Prager is a 70 year old fairly conservative Jew. Jacobson is probably a couple decades younger since he is still teaching at Cornell. What is so scary or intimidating about either one? Physically nothing. Which leaves their ideas. Prager teaches morality and economics. And I think that Jacobson's sin may have been demolishing the BLM narrative with the truth - regardless of the societal causes, both Trayvon Martin and Big Mike Brown had attempted to murder their ultimate slayers shortly before being killed in legal and moral self defense. Both also had previous histories of violence and law breaking, but it was their attempts at murder that were the proximate causes of their deaths. Which is highly inconvenient for the BLM narrative.
So, why now? Because we have an election coming up in less than 3 months that conceivably greatly affect the second half of Trump's first term in office. If the Dems take the House, expect that all investigations of the Deep State, and esp into FISAgate, the DoJ, FBI, etc to be shutdown so fast your head will spin. Instead, I would affect them to use their subpoena power to start hounding Trump appointed govt officials, esp in depts and agencies that have reversed progressive policies, such as the EPA, Interior, Education, etc. Controlling the MSM wasn't enough to get Crooked Hillary elected, and they are probably even less effective at controlling public opinion today than 2 years ago, thanks to Trump constantly calling the out for their Fake News. Trump (or really his son-in-law) outdid the Dems at using electronic media, something thought impossible up until then. This time around, they are going to make sure that isn't going to happen, and part of that is to deplatform as many conservatives as they can, as quickly as they can. (I expect that Twitter would have deplatformed Trump long ago, if they weren't worried about federal agents showing up later that day).
It's such a weird world we inhabit. I'm looking at Instapundit and they got:
"AT AMAZON, save on Vitamins and Dietary Supplements."
But that's followed by:
"ALL THE SPELLS THAT’S FIT THE PRINT: If you’re curious about “Witchcraft in the #MeToo Era,” the Gray Lady is on it."
How are peddlers of fraudulent vitamins and supplements any better than peddlers in fake news about witches? Aren't they both just leading readers around in a maze of nonsense? Their criticism of the Left's BS is supposed to make their vitamin and supplement BS more credible, but, instead, it just points out how little room for reality the gatekeepers allow. If you go Left, there they are - go Right, same thing. Alex Jones and Gwyneth Paltrow's GOOP even sell the EXACT SAME SUPPLEMENTS. (And Jones of course has admitted in court he's lying. Paltrow merely admitted it on Jimmy Kimmel.)
"with values Suge Knight would respect"
Terry Carter might take issue with that..
What is your source of income, Crack?
You can ignore it all you want, but I'm no longer alone in seeing this:
Fantasyland: How America Went Haywire: A 500-Year History
He sees the Right as the bigger problem, because you're the ones weaponizing losing your standards now, and I saw the bigger problem on the Left - the people who abolished them.
How Mumbo-Jumbo Conquered the World: A Short History of Modern Delusions
I might have to revise my thinking,...
TCE: “I might have to revise my thinking,...”
Objection.
Assumes facts not in evidence.
Crack: "You can ignore it all you want, but I'm no longer alone in seeing this:"
Wow.
Crack: "and I saw the bigger problem on the Left - the people who abolished them."
Double wow.
This is the totally credible branding the Republicans need to attract and keep voters:
Dr. Oz and Nutritional Supplements
Trump just added him to the team to, presumably, battle for the "Yoga Vote."
Twitter et al is self declared, officially part of the MSM (MAIM STREET MEDIA).
I am all for science.
I am also for informed consent.
The problem that can be observed is that science has been bastardized by the influence of politics and money. (cause and effect?) And that means my faith in proper search for better answers through the use of the scientific method is dampened. So I assume the things that worked best 50 years ago are the things that work best today.
So I am conservative.
When It Comes to Supplements, What’s Really in the Bottle?
"It’s often hard to know what’s really in the bottles you’re buying.
In short, unlike with medical drugs, companies making vitamins and supplements do not have to prove that their products are safe and effective before putting them on the market — unless they’re introducing a new ingredient that’s never been marketed before."
Theranos bother you? Why? What's the diff here? This shit is GANGSTA.
Birkel said...
I am all for science.
I am also for informed consent.
How can you have informed consent when they don't have to tell you what's in the bottle?
Birkel said...
I am all for science.
I am also for informed consent.
How can you have trust in an industry resting on a law that says they don't have to tell you what's in the bottle?
Science reveals that many scientific study results aren't reproducible...
walter said...
"Science reveals that many scientific study results aren't reproducible..."
But enough do that computers work, and we understand things well enough to figure a lot of shit out, like surgery, so stop being a brain full of mush or shut up.
walter: "Science reveals that many scientific study results aren't reproducible..."
How can I trust any research group that would accept me as a team member?..
TCE,
Find the word ‘trust’ in the phrase ‘informed consent’ did you?
Between that and split infinitives, no wonder everybody takes you seriously.
What walter typed.
Ah..so what is your job, again?
Mediator?
Crack: "But enough do that computers work,..."
LOL
You hooked one Walter!
Crack knows even less about application software and analytics than he does about pharmaceutical sciences (biology, chemistry, etc).
The $37 billion supplement industry is barely regulated — and it's allowing dangerous products to slip through the cracks
But John Henry got his money. White folks work on a scale of criminality blacks can only dream of. Somebody asked how I make my money: honestly.
TCE is probably correct about nutritional supplements, to be fair.
And if he weren’t so strident we would not be enjoying this so much.
Sub-groups of people do show positive results, however, e.g. pregnant women and HIV positive patients.
A lot of the rest reads like a wash, no better than placebos.
Americans Spend Billions on Vitamins and Herbs That Don’t Work
When I can see buyers and sellers are making really bad decisions, here, there's absolutely no reason to think they're reasoning any better in other areas of life. I understand the concept of the functionally insane, having lived in San Francisco with nut jobs who held jobs while completely deluded, and I see y'all as no different. You so-called conservatives "believe what you want to believe" as much as any hippie or Mormon cultist. You're part of the weight on America, causing things like mass shootings - you don't want the world to make sense. You laugh at the vulnerable who believe the outrageous and think a decent nation will come from that - as you preach Right-Wing patriotic dogma to blacks alongside your criminality. You ought to be ashamed but you have no shame. Go join the show in Chicago you love so much, you'll fit right in.
Education is the answer.
Informed consent.
Birkel: "TCE is probably correct about nutritional supplements, to be fair.
And if he weren’t so strident we would not be enjoying this so much."
If TCE is calling for complete information included on the labels along with info on where to look for reputable studies which analyzed performance, well, he's many decades late to be posturing as some sort of wizened and sage seer leading us out if the darkness.
Next up for Crack! Hey, there are lots of things we can do to improve the performance of this model T and WW1 era bi-plane!
Birkel said...
"TCE is probably correct about nutritional supplements, to be fair.
And if he weren’t so strident we would not be enjoying this so much."
Because you're conservatives, so no one's being hurt by this, or been hurt by it, because there's no victims, right? So no victims, no crime, plus Right-Wing laughter makes Republicans a swell party, right? Man, you guys suck.
Any party that decides to PROTECT THE PUBLIC FROM CON ARTISTS AND FRAUDS will have a prime issue to beat their opponents with, but you fools are too busy giving Alex Jones a place to hide. It's incredible.
Incredibly stupid.
No, TCE. Protecting people from their own stupidity is a fool’s errand.
While you are out, grab me a sandwich?
The Trump Cult? A charismatic leader, mind control, and other telltale signs
A telltale sign is the group losing it's moral bearings. And all cults need a scam - like vitamins and supplements - to make money from. Trump hired Dr. Oz so that doesn't get you off the hook for a potential cult leader (Oz's wife is a homeopath and Reiki Master). Keep it up: you're almost there, Kids.
Wait, so now we are responsible for Oprah’s creature, Dr. Oz?
First of all, fuck both those Democrats.
Second, why the hell would anybody beside Trump (who is not exactly a Do. Oz follower based on his McDonald’s and Diet Coke diet) be responsible for the PR move of bringing a Democrat into the White House?
It’s a political strategy, not an endorsement.
At the risk of rhhardin’s wrath, this is an appeal to soap opera women.
On the cheap, to boot.
The honest marketing that went into DSHEA was brilliant, too - really makes the defenders of this scam look good.
Birkel said...
Wait, so now we are responsible for Oprah’s creature, Dr. Oz?
First of all, fuck both those Democrats.
Dr. Oz is a Republican.
TCE,
Walks like a duck. Quacks like a duck. Eats duck food.
You believe Oprah pushed a Republican onto TV?
And you think the Leftist daughter (on The Chew?) is a Republican too?
You’re not supposed to smoke the crack.
What did mass murderer Radovan Karadzic do while he was on the run from justice? He sold vitamins and supplements, what else?
While it's not necessary in all things, people who argue against a black-and-white view of the world, in cases like this, usually need a grey area to fuck innocents in. Y'all have created a society where Catholic priests are screwing kids. That should matter to you. You need to start getting a handle on right and wrong, etc. again, and you ain't gonna do that defending the likes of Alex Jones and other folks denying reality. You've let the parameters go too far. Become so openminded your brains have fallen out. Nobody has to become Czar or something. Just apply reasoning. The rest will fall into place.
Birkel said...
"You believe Oprah pushed a Republican onto TV?"
There's this thing called wikipedia...
Nobody has defended Alex Jones.
That is a lie.
Some people have defended the broader concept of free speech and the free exchange of ideas.
Birkel said...
"You believe Oprah pushed a Republican onto TV?"
There's this thing called wikipedia...and the fact you didn't check, before you spoke, says all that needs to be said about you.
Ooh, Wikipedia?
And my grandmother was a democrat who voted Republican.
Do you know of some law that forces people to register a certain way?
Chuck, fopdoodle extraordinaire, is a LLR if you are into those sorts of things.
Somebody asked how I make my money: honestly.
--
Dodge..
Crack should check out today's Beyond the Beltway with Bruce DuMont podcast.
Classic caller around 20 minutes from end that he would really dig:
http://www.beyondthebeltway.com/podcast.htm
Caller goes by B.A.
And John d Rockefellers father sold patent medicine (I got that from ej epstein) it's a free country still. The problem is we forgot the reason this country was founded.
{{{{{BUUURRRRP!}}}
We had a very nice Mexican (style) dinner but as we were leaving I felt a slight twinge of conscience.
When I got home, I drank a couple glasses of tap water and the twinge went away. Apparently it was just a touch of heartburn from too much hot sauce.
I almost never drink bottled water, tap water is fine with me. How come you never complain about bottled water, Crack? Or is this something I missed?
Still waiting to hear about you picketing GNC, Crack. You did post a note about some group suing CVS but they have not won yet and you don't seem to be involved.
What are you, personally, The Crack Emcee, doing to protest GNC and neutraceuticals? So far it looks like some blog posts and comments. If you really thought it was a problem you would be doing something yourself. Not waiting for someone else.
How far do you think the suit against homeopathic medicine will get? People been raging against it for a century or more and it is still standing. From the article it seems like mostly a law firm masquarading as an issues group to raise money.
Did you contribute? I hope not. It would be even more foolish than homeopathy itself.
John Henry
Crack is too busy posting on Althouse to actually get up and get out and get active to support his causes or actually learn some science or actually try and gin up a movement of some sort.
But he has the answers of course. All the answers. And he always has.
It's just that the entire nation has yet to come knocking on his door so, you know, we are missing out.
John Henry: "Still waiting to hear about you picketing GNC, Crack. You did post a note about some group suing CVS but they have not won yet and you don't seem to be involved."
Funny.
You used the words "Crack" and "involved" in the same sentence!
Hilarious.
Where would Crack find the time to get involved in the real world in a real way when his real value lies in pretending to be some sort of scientific genius and insider who has reams of insider insight as he preaches to about 15 people on a blogsite?
"Why don't you guys research what you do and say, before you do or say it?"
Crack,
As a bullshit artist/attention whore do you even read others' posts?
Geez. A mind is terrible thing to waste.
But, I suspect you are going to continue selling your superficial bullshit.
Crack quoted some newspaper article that said that supplements (vitamins, Ginseng, St John's wort and the like as we are discussing here) do not have to meet the pharmaceutical standard of "safe and effective" to be approved by the FDA for marketing.
That is 100% factually correct. But it is also fake news.
The problem is the "and".
Supplements have to be proven "safe" to the FDA's satisfaction before they can be manufactured and sold. They do not have to be proven "effective" unless the manufacturer is making some sort of medicinal claim. "St John's Wort helps you feel better" (no claim) vs "St John's Wort is effective in combatting depression" (Claim requiring proof of effectiveness)
And to clear up another fake "fact" that you posted, I've worked in a lot of different pharmaceutical manufacturing environments, mostly in the US, since 1976 and as recently as last week.
I have a pretty good handle on what GMPs require for manufacturing, storing, packaging and so on. GMPs are Good Manufacturing Practices and are the rulebook by which all pharmaceutical and supplement products must be manufactured. No separate rule book for supplements. There was in the past but not for the past 15-20 years.
Labeling: You said you don't know what is in a supplement. Have you looked at the label? I just looked at a bottle of vitamin B and everything I would expect to be in a tablet is listed. Active ingredient, excipients, filler, flavoring, binder and a couple of other things. Most tablets contain pretty much the same ingredients in addition to the active ingredient. Not even small print. I had no problem reading it.
So you seem to be downing in the shit on supplements and getting deeper by the note.
Caveat:Under state laws, which vary from state to state, pharmacists can compound supplements in their pharmacies for individual patients, sometimes for general sale. When they do that, and sell only in a state, they are generally under the FDAs purview and all bets are off.
99% of supplements are made in FDA regulated factories and processes.
John Henry
John Henry,
And some manufacturers have gotten into serious legal trouble when they failed to meet FDA standards.
That supports the idea that there are standards and safeguards to catch cheaters.
And I'll tell my bottles water story:
In the 80's, when I was selling machinery I sold several water fillers (from the company who would not fill wine). At that time there was no market at all for individual size bottles as are the rage today. All water was filled into standard 1/2 and 1 gallon jugs as used for milk. Not just PR, all over the US. Also 5 gallon returnable bottles for water coolers.
One of the plants bought a very small, very manual filler for 500ml bottles. He saw no market for them but took them to beaches, concerts, ball games as giveaways to promote the 1/2 and gallon bottles.
The only market for personal size water was Perrier, Evian, Apollanaris etc.
By 1999 that had all changed and personal sizes were everywhere. At the National Soft Drink Association Show, one of the keynotes was by the President of Coca-Cola.
He told how they got into the bottled water business. He and several other executives were in a Starbucks and noticed how Starbucks makes money had over fist by selling what would normally be a 25 cent cup of coffee for $2.50 after they had taken most of the coffee out of it.
That gave them the idea "We'll take the syrup and the sugar (the expensive stuff) out of Coke and just sell the water (essentially free) for the same price."
In the early 2000s I spent a couple weeks in a Canadian water bottler. This was one of 8 plants they had in Canada, for Canada. At that time they had 6 lines going, each running 1200 bottles per minute, pretty much 24/7. They did shut down for cleaning and sanitizing once a week. That was 10mm bottles per day. About 3.5 billion a year.
They had 6 empty bays and the plan was to add a line a year until they had 12 lines running.
They are big name you would recognize, they have about 20 similar plants in the US. But they aren't even #1.
For a product that is universally available, at least in the US and Canada, essentially for free.
Let's see you start agitating against that, Crack.
John Henry
sell only in a state, they are generally under the FDAs purview and all bets are off.
Should have been a "not" in there. They are generally NOT under the FDA's purview.
John Henry
There are a lot of stupid people. As P.T. Barnum famously said, there's a sucker born every minute. More than one. Many more.
Let's take as a given that Crack is correct that the vast majority of supplements are useless, and that the people making and selling them know it. There are two issues here: (i) Should the government shut them down, and if not, (ii) Is it moral to work for the supplement makers ? Crack says Yes and No. JohnHenry and some others here say No and Yes. But I think the right answers are No and No.
I agree with Crack that it's wrong to help someone who you know is defrauding people. And let's be clear, that is what many of the supplement companies and assholes like Drs. Oz and Mercola are doing. They are deliberately trying to convince their customers that their products "work" when they know that's not true. They use a lot of weasel words in their advertisements to stay within the of the law, but that doesn't change their moral culpability one whit. And people like Glenn Reynolds should not take their money either.
But I disagree with Crack about banning supplements that aren't proven to work. For one thing, it's not always clear that a supplement works or doesn't work. Fish oil is a good example. A few years ago there were hundreds of peer-reviewed articles in medical journals that seemed to show that fish oil helped treat a whole bunch of different diseases and conditions. Now, after many more studies, some of those early papers appear to have been wrong. But not all of them.
Another problem with bans is, who decides? Crack thinks this is obvious, but it isn't. The FDA says that you can't actually claim outright that your product is medicine without first proving it to their satisfaction. And that turns out to be a very expensive proposition, so expensive that some useful medications never get approved or even developed because nobody wants to spend the money it would take to satisfy the FDA. Nobody wants to develop new antibiotics, for example, because the nature of the medicine is that you get one prescription to treat an infection and after it works, you're done. There's much more money to be made treating chronic conditions like diabetes, heart disease, or aging. So we're approaching an antibiotic apocalypse wherein bacteria become resistant to most existing antibiotics and we don't have many new ones in the pipeline.
If we required all supplements to prove themselves not just safe but also effective, almost none of them would pass the test. The vast majority of supplements are not patent-eligible, often because they're not new, and so no one is going to spend the money to do the clinical trials. Protein powders and creatine are safe and effective aids to people doing weight training to get bigger and stronger. That's been shown time and again in hundreds of studies, but no one's ever actually done Phase I, II, and III trials on them and no one ever will. Would Crack take them off the market?
stay within the letter of the law
Glenn (actually Helen)links to all sorts of stuff on Amazon. In terms of supplements, will be purchased mostly by people who would buy them somewhere anyway.
To construe that as some sort of moral failing is pretty drastic..especially given the ambiguities you yourself point out. He makes no claim to be an expert or MD.
Miami Herald throws support behind Republican who says she was abducted by aliens
Fine. Inga wins: you're all nuts.
Rudy Giuliani says 'truth isn't truth'
And these morons agree!!!
I've found the perfect candidate for the next Republican president of the United States:
Librans should pursue modelling while Leos are born to be CEOs: Astrologist reveals the perfect career for each zodiac sign
Something just occurred to me: you guys don't respond to words like "reason," "fairness," or "justice" while adamantly being assholes complaining about others looking to "fascism" - when it's you who create fascists by being so unreasonable!!
I never thought Republicans would justify Stalin but I'm starting to understand the old boy now: Fuck you guys.I'd gladly run you over - as Glenn Reynolds once suggested people should do to protesters - he's your hero, right? You deserve to be run over.
You're all Alex Jones.
I see now why you guys reject "reason," "fairness," or "justice": you don't deserve any of them.
Put this thread with Kellyanne Conway's "Alternative Facts" and, now, Rudy's "Truth isn't the truth" and you've got the state of the modern Republican Party:
Just as big a group of delusional liars as any cult on the Left.
Congratulations, Folks, you've talked yourselves into becoming exactly what you're fighting against.
Crack,
Are you on Facebook?
If so, doesn't that make you just like Hitler? Supporting housing and job discrimination of your black brothers and sisters is about as evil as one could be.
I would like to welcome you to yhe just like Hitler club.
If you are not on Facebook, why are you not speaking out about their discrimination? Silence = death.
You are still just like Hitler.
John Henry
Richard Linklater Is Baffled by Old Pal Alex Jones’ Rise: ‘It’s Insane’ Except to old white men. Then it's a "free speech issue".
“He was this hyper guy that we’d all kind of make fun of” - now old white white men idolize him.
BTW - Another marvelous day. The Queen's Homeopath, Peter Fisher, got hit by a bus and died. Please let me know when John Henry and the like passes on. I want to be sure to celebrate that as well.
My former fishwrap isn't good for anything thc so they failed to endorse our own Sheryl Atkinson Maria salazar.
Still waiting for my apology, crack
John Henry
For the den they endorsed the held of their own foundation.
"Any political movement is defined not just by what it aspires to, but also by whom it excludes. And the alt-right, the Alex Jones right, the white nationalist right know that they are fully included in Trump’s definition of his movement. They have become experts in tacking...to delegitimize any source of authority and information"
- Michael Gerson, "This will never be normal"
Darkisland said...
Still waiting for my apology, crack
John Henry
And you'll be waiting as long as you hope to torture me and rip off the world: that is, until the day you die.
Prince taLals assistant, who attacked the tea party and defended the ground zero mosque, known in the bush white house for taking credit for every idea.
The queen is 93, she must be doing something right,
Notice now that a certain poster has returned - and it's post after post after post, incessantly - Ritmo is nowhere to be found?
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