It is a startling reversal for the party, which only a short time ago imposed punishing fines on most couples who had more than one child and compelled hundreds of millions of Chinese women to have abortions or undergo sterilization operations.
The new campaign has raised fear that China may go from one invasive extreme to another in getting women to have more children. Some provinces are already tightening access to abortion or making it more difficult to get divorced....
“Women cannot decide what happens to their own ovaries,” one user complained on Weibo, a popular microblogging platform, after Jiangxi detailed the abortion guidelines in July.
August 11, 2018
"To put it bluntly, the birth of a baby is not only a matter of the family itself, but also a state affair."
Said the official Chinese newspaper People’s Daily, quoted in "Burying ‘One Child’ Limits, China Pushes Women to Have More Babies" (NYT).
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1 – 200 of 251 Newer› Newest»No surprise. That's standard Communism.
And that's why we need more "Free Trade" with China.
Cause nothing says "Free" like Communism.
Demographics is destiny, Baby!
“Women cannot decide what happens to their own ovaries,” one user complained
Equality sucks, don't it?
Singapore had the same problem. After years of punishing people who had more than two children, they realized government policies had precipitated a demographic decline. When the government tried to reverse policy it discovered women were no longer interested in having many children. The current birth rate is 0.83 live births per woman, and even with generous state subsidies and propaganda campaigns the numbers aren't budging.
““Women cannot decide what happens to their own ovaries,” ...”
With all the angst about the declining birth rate that we read in these comments sections, commenters here sound like the Communist Government of today, being in favor of forcing women to have children, by outlawing abortion. Maybe outlawing divorce is a bridge too far even for folks here.
There are too many damn people. If you don't like my swearing, then how about "There are too many dumb people." That's true if you consider Republicans, but it's too broad and insulting. So, my final effort today, THERE ARE TOO MANY PEOPLE. Let's do something about it! ADOPT...a puppy.
Same problem in Russia - and most of the developed west, but nothing like China.
“The current birth rate is 0.83 live births per woman, and even with generous state subsidies and propaganda campaigns the numbers aren't budging.”
Maybe women found out that they could pursue vocations other than childbearing... and liked the idea. Men should make being married and having children be very very very attractive to women.
Maybe women found out that they could pursue other vocations other than childbearing... and liked the idea.
I'm sure that's true. I'm also sure at this TFR a lot of people who were planning to depend on government pensions and health care will find their old age to be far less comfortable than they anticipated.
With all the angst about the declining birth rate that we read in these comments sections, commenters here sound like the Communist Government of today, being in favor of forcing women to have children, by outlawing abortion.
Who? Who said we should outlaw abortion in order to keep the birth rate up?
https://hotair.com/headlines/archives/2018/08/china-forcing-muslims-reeducation-camps/
Maybe they should get Bernie and his new compadre over there to improve their central planning.
My my. What will the commie loving left do, now that their ideal China is trampling on the sacred rite of killing babies? Tom Friedman, who adores everything communist China does... care to take a stand endorsing banning abortion?
Isn't this what every leftist dreams of, where the State controls and overrides your family? It's what the Left loves. Why aren't you praising it, Inga? This is the ultimate outcome of your preferred policies. Why aren't you cheering this on--the complete ending of personal freedom to be subjected to the state? Your dream politics, at last!
And as a bonus, it's more moral than your sacrifices to Moloch all year.
Inga said...
"Men should make being married and having children be very very very attractive to women."
Why?
If we are going to buy into this egalitarianism, why is it that men (alone) should make being married and having children very very very attractive to women?
That was done once. Social status was heaped on women with a husband and a family. All right thinking people said that this arrangement stifles women and they should be given the same rights as men. And in a generation or two, with some significant fits and starts, society was changed to allow just that. Women can be astronauts, engineers, CEOs, viable candidates for the highest office in the land, etc..
They have all the rights that men have. And when a story comes up about low birthrates, all of the responsibilities are heaped in your comment on men.
All the rights, not all of the responsibilities.
Why is it not the responsibility of women to make marriage and children attractive to men? Right now if a man gets married he has all of the risk, she could decide to leave him, take half of his stuff, and all of his children. If her cheating makes babies the courts still make him pay the child support for the children.
I have read a few of articles on this and the consensus seems to be that the perceived high cost of raising a child is the primary reason the Chinese are stuck at 1 per family. There is also a problem of lack of women of child bearing age due to the previous one child plan. Central planning is always a real winner.
It's a state affair because birth is when society wires itself to care for the baby.
Tangentially related but I think worth reading:
Japan and America: Ageing and Workforces
Low birth rates in Europe and Japan are invariably cited as reasons that both areas need...yep, you guessed it, more immigration. What problems can't immigration solve!
Life deemed unworthy. Life deemed worthy. One-child. Selective-child. Recycled-child.
Pro-Choice is two choices too late. #HateLovesAbortion
Sorry Vance we Christians don’t think Joseph Smith was a Prophet. Nor do those on the left think Communist China ever had anything to offer a modern society.
"Men should make being married and having children be very very very attractive to women."
Reconciliation. Men and women should strive to maturity.
"Our Resident Dullard Inga...Allie Oop said...
““Women cannot decide what happens to their own ovaries,” ...”
With all the angst about the declining birth rate that we read in these comments sections, commenters here sound like the Communist Government of today, being in favor of forcing women to have children, by outlawing abortion. Maybe outlawing divorce is a bridge too far even for folks here."
This idiot never disappoints. Unlike China, the pro-like issue of abortion here has never been about population control, and no women was forced to have a baby except in the case of rape, when abortions were illegal. Pregnancy is a possible outcome when one has sex, and a minute one when precautions are taken. Absolutely don't want a baby. You don't need to rely on abortion.
“That was done once. Social status was heaped on women with a husband and a family.”
You think social status is of utmost importance to women?
“All right thinking people said that this arrangement stifles women and they should be given the same rights as men.”
Having one baby after another does stifle women. Unless it’s their choice. You think women shouldn’t have the same rights as men? Huh? What are you, a Neanderthal?
“And in a generation or two, with some significant fits and starts, society was changed to allow just that. Women can be astronauts, engineers, CEOs, viable candidates for the highest office in the land, etc..”
Hoorah for women. Hoorah for men who make getting married and having babies be so attractive and wonderful that any woman would jump at the chance.
Nor do those on the left think Communist China ever had anything to offer a modern society.
Liar
Overpopulation was never a problem and never will be. Real live intelligent human beings are the greatest natural resource of all. How many people could the Earth support if we produced and distributed food and energy with the technology of the 1500's? Probably not even a tenth of the number of humans thriving today.
All that technology was invented by people. It wasn't discovered or mined, it was created by free people using their faculties of thought. And what has to be even more astonishing to today's Progressives, some of those inventors and innovators, in fact, the vast majority of them, were not oppressed minorities.
Hard to believe.
Ultimately, empowered women will have approximately the number of children they want. If this is less than replacement, population will decline. Growing up, I was propagandized to think that 1 or 2 was the responsible choice. China has been pushing 1, but most women seem to want 1 or 2. In the US, more than 3 strikes most middle-class families as infeasible. What most people want results in a declining population. Abortion and communism are beside the point.
It was typical of all sorts of human societies long before communism.
Individual liberty is a rather novel concept.
And does not work very well with human nature.
“Unlike China, the pro-like issue of abortion here has never been about population control...”
No one said it was, shit for brains. Go back to grooming your fellow monkeys, you’re incapable of responding to my comment cogently, because you don’t understand the argument I made.
OH..shit banning abortion...China is now enemy #1!
What number of children is feasible or infeasible in this case is socially determined, not set by some genuine resource constraint. Americans families can, nearly all of them, only limited by medical-biological contingencies, have a great number of children, they certainly can feed, clothe and educate them perfectly well, within their resources.
The constraint is in the form of social expectations. Fashions really. These inflate the consumption expected on behalf of each child. This consumption in unnecessary.
The entire problem is psychological.
being in favor of forcing women to have children, by outlawing abortion.
Outlawing abortion does not force women to have children. Women can control their behavior and not have irresponsible sex.
The constraint is in the form of social expectations.
I think selfishness is much more to blame. Women simply don't want to take the lifestyle hit that comes with raising kids. (Many men don't either by the way)
Men should make being married and having children be very very very attractive to women
Why?
Why shouldn't women make being married and having children be very very very attractive to men? Especially when it is the behavior of women that is doing the opposite today.
Why is it not the responsibility of women to make marriage and children attractive to men?
Women must never be made to feel bad about, or responsible for, anything, ever.
#BLM = Baby Lives Matter
Men should make being married and having children be very very very attractive to women.
How?
“Outlawing abortion does not force women to have children.”
Oh really? Tell me, what happens when a pregnancy is forced to be taken to term? Those nine months of gestation culminate into a birth. Some women are not willing or ready to do that. How are you going to force a woman to stay pregnant? The Abortion Police? Sounds sort of like something the Chinese government would do.
“Women can control their behavior and not have irresponsible sex.”
Men can control their behavior and not impregnate them.
Inga: "Nor do those on the left think Communist China ever had anything to offer a modern society."
LOL
Thomas Friedman in the NYT no less (Sep 8, 2009): "Our One Party Democracy"
"There is only one thing worse than one-party autocracy, and that is one-party democracy, which is what we have in America today.
One-party autocracy certainly has its drawbacks. But when it is led by a reasonably enlightened group of people, as China is today, it can also have great advantages. That one party can just impose the politically difficult but critically important policies needed to move a society forward in the 21st century. It is not an accident that China is committed to overtaking us in electric cars, solar power, energy efficiency, batteries, nuclear power and wind power. China's leaders understand that in a world of exploding populations and rising emerging-market middle classes, demand for clean power and energy efficiency is going to soar. Beijing wants to make sure that it owns that industry and is ordering the policies to do that, including boosting gasoline prices, from the top down.
Our one-party democracy is worse. The fact is, on both the energy/climate legislation and health care legislation, only the Democrats are really playing."
The birth rate will recover on its own over time. The descendants of people who are willing to have children will be more likely to have children, and the childless will be forgotten.
Notice how Inga swiftly convicts US conservatives are not doing with what the commie lefties in China are actually doing.
As expected.
As noted in previous months/years, the more crimes/transgressions islamists and communists commit the guiltier US conservatives and republicans are in Inga's eyes.
The good news is that it only happens every single time.
“Men should make being married and having children be very very very attractive to women.”
“How?”
Well Gahrie, start with respecting her. Make her feel secure. Make her feel loved. Make her feel beautiful. Make her feel smart. Make her feel emotionally supported. If you honestly can’t do that, you’ve got the wrong woman, find one that you click with. Make yourself physically and mentally attractive to her.
Now why do I need to spell this out to a grown man?
Thomas Friedman in the NYT no less (Sep 8, 2009): "Our One Party Democracy
No true Scotsman argument incoming.
What is attractive to women tends to be the result of a local or extended consensus among women, and women (as a generality) are remarkably powerfully driven by this consensus, especially when young. And the content of this consensus is very rarely connected to concrete interests. Most of it is whimsy, randomness. That is fashion.
So it is, in spite of female demands, nearly impossible for men individually to affect these choices, to satisfy women, especially young women, because this is truly a matter of chasing the irrational. Some men are attractive to them, and those they mob, and most are not.
Now, it is possible to create a propaganda that will sway the female consensus. It really is as simple as monkey see monkey do. The US and most developed countries have been investing heavily in antinatalist and antimarriage propaganda for decades. This can be changed. When it becomes fashionable to marry and have large families, then you will have that.
I sure hope the communist Chinese don't do anything else inappropriate with their women. I don't think many western conservatives could afford the exorbitant fees it would take to defend ourselves against the lefties accusations and charges.
The liberal and progressive sects of the Pro-Choice Church are clinging to the twilight fringe and faith.
With the development of scientific knowledge, there is no credible reason for anyone to deny evolution of human life from conception, nor to continue the progressive prostration to Stork. The Pro-Choice Church should stop aiding and abetting abortion rites including selective-child and recycled-child.
One-child, selective-child, recycled-child, and Planned Child are torture in the first trimester, an unprecedented violation of human rights, and wanton corruption of science for social progress, light and political causes.
I've never had a problem attracting women.
Without even speaking, much, to them at all.
Make her feel secure?
Make her feel beautiful?
Emotionally supported?
In 30 minutes or less?
It doesn't work that way, at all. They simply are, or are not.
There is no reason in it.
You know, those islamists have this quirkly little habit of putting homosexuals in cages and burning them alive, or burying them up to their necks and stoning them to death, or simply throwing them off a tall building.
I mean, that's like, not cool or anything, but did you know that there is this horrible, horrible, unprecedentedly horrible really, Christian guy who won't bake a custom wedding cake for a couple of gay dudes?
I mean, I think we all know what is worse. I mean, that's like darn near "The Handmaiden's Tale" or something equally "real".
Priorities people. Priorities.
“Now, it is possible to create a propaganda that will sway the female consensus. It really is as simple as monkey see monkey do. The US and most developed countries have been investing heavily in antinatalist and antimarriage propaganda for decades. This can be changed. When it becomes fashionable to marry and have large families, then you will have that.”
LOL, how the hell did you ever get a woman to marry you? I sure hope you didn’t call her a monkey. Or maybe you said, “Ah my sweet little love monkey, come to my treehouse and I’ll share my bananas with you!” That might make you very popular on Monkey Island.
“Make her feel secure?
Make her feel beautiful?
Emotionally supported?
In 30 minutes or less?”
Hint...
It might take more than 30 minutes.
Inga offers romance advice:
"Make her feel secure. Make her feel loved. Make her feel beautiful. Make her feel smart. Make her feel emotionally supported. If you honestly can’t do that, you’ve got the wrong woman, find one that you click with. Make yourself physically and mentally attractive to her."
All that is very good, but you need to also add, "you make me feel like a natural woman"
Aretha Franklin (1967)
investing heavily in antinatalist and antimarriage propaganda for decades. This can be changed. When it becomes fashionable to marry and have large families
Large families and families of two are of course a choice. Positive progress would entail a moratorium on abortion rites (selective-child, recycled-child, Planned Child) and reversing normalization of the "friendship with benefits" (e.g. casting couch) that engenders dysfunctional relationships and the #MeToo bigotry.
buwaya: " It really is as simple as monkey see monkey do."
Inga: "LOL, how the hell did you ever get a woman to marry you? I sure hope you didn’t call her a monkey."
Inga mistakes a turn of phrase for a courting ritual.
This is what happens to Socialist Cut and Pasters of others ideas.
At some point, you run out of other peoples intelligent thoughts to present as your own and, like Inga, are forced to fall back on, well, you can see what she falls back on.
Inga sure doesn't like those Filipino's. I wonder if it's their brown skin?
You choose a demographic regime by your reproductive choices. But people haven't been educated to see this, to understand the whole of their reproductive choice. If you choose a declining-population demographic regime you are also choosing not to have social security in your old age. In fact, the welfare state as a whole can't continue to function with a declining population. The problem is universal but China has it worst. Immigration is out, no one but North Koreans wants to emigrate to China. And, in China they killed millions of little girls as if they were members of an enemy army. And now, retribution - the birth rate is falling faster than society can sustain because - no little girls, no women, no babies, no society. And the state can't make little girls grow up into women who want to form a family. And why should women want to form a family in a society where their own little girls, people just like themselves, might be killed as worthless by the male part of the "family?" The One Child Policy and the killing of baby girls started in the 1970's and here the future is. No girls, no army, no state. What goes around comes around, as Lysistrata becomes history.
“Inga mistakes a turn of phrase for a courting ritual.”
Inga was riffing off that phrase, duh Drago. You under the weather today? Tired? Too much good loving from the wife last night?
I asked her out for drinks after work, she said she had a boyfriend.
It took three years to persuade her to dump the fellow.
The rational (as opposed to irrational) arguments were that I wanted children and he couldn't have them, and that I was richer than he was.
The irrational argument was a Chinese jar of South Seas pearls.
From a lefty point of view, there is really only one question left to ask about the Friedman column extolling the commie Chinese govt and decision-making structure:
Why did the Russians make him write that?
“It took three years to persuade her to dump the fellow.
The rational (as opposed to irrational) arguments were that I wanted children and he couldn't have them, and that I was richer than he was.”
See? If that’s what she truly wanted, good for you both! Mazel Tov! But wow, it took three years? I hope she at least learned to love you.
Inga; 'Inga was riffing off that phrase, duh Drago."
No, you were being (purposely? one wonders) obtuse.
Obviously.
At least I hope it was purposeful....otherwise...egads.
Drago, are you hung over?
Women can be astronauts, engineers, CEOs, viable candidates for the highest office in the land, etc..
They can even design pretty bridges.
So it is, in spite of female demands, nearly impossible for men individually to affect these choices, to satisfy women, especially young women, because this is truly a matter of chasing the irrational. Some men are attractive to them, and those they mob, and most are not.
Women have pretty much convinced young men that marriage is bad deal for men. They even write books about it,
Then they say "A women needs a man like a fish needs a bicycle."
Nice try Inga. But your words, unless like so many other leftists on this blog you begin to delete comments with a fury, are there for everyone to see.
I have seen "it" take 30 seconds, if that.
Girl sees boy, boy sees girl, they look at each other a bit awkwardly, and they are out the door, good night.
Friedman and Krugman are the approach lighting system to Trumpland. Acosta will see that he gets a second term
The rational (as opposed to irrational) arguments were that I wanted children and he couldn't have them, and that I was richer than he was.
A family member is getting divorced because his wife decided she did not want children
When they married about five years ago, she said she wanted to "wait."
It's a shame. He is still helping her to get herself settled but I suspect it is over. He comes from a happy family.
Mike K is bitter because women are taking control of medicine... it's an ego blow to know that a woman can do your job
"Women can be astronauts, engineers,..."
Not all women....
Especially not the feminists who claim that missiles are shaped like penises because they are designed by men.
And especially not the feminists and leftists who claim mathematics is literally white supremacy.
Other than that though....
Who wants to raise kids in a country run by Red Scum?
Better to be never born or dead than ruled by Red Scum like Xi. The Scum who run Google are back in China now with their hands out. Help the totalitarians for a few dollars more. Just Like Hollywood. Maybe they can help Xi impregnatemore Chinesewomen. Have Harvey Weinstein hold them down while Xi rapes them. He can start his own race of Red Scum
Howard: "Mike K is bitter because women are taking control of medicine..."
Then why are there so many unwanted pregnancies?
Howard: "Friedman and Krugman are the approach lighting system to Trumpland. Acosta will see that he gets a second term"
Clever formulation.
“Nice try Inga. But your words, unless like so many other leftists on this blog you begin to delete comments with a fury, are there for everyone to see.”
Excuse me? When I delete comments, 99% of the time it’s because I’ve made a spelling or grammar error, then I repost. What is your problem? Extra jerky today? IF that even possible. STFU if you don’t have anything you add to this very interesting discussion.
Just like I just did there.
Jeff said... Overpopulation was never a problem and never will be.
Overpopulation IS a HUGE problem for some people*
some people* Those who HATE AND DESPISE EVERYONE because they HATE AND DESPISE themselves
If you're a Rich White Person, that hates and despises yourself...
Then you say that ALL Rich White People are evil,and need to go
Then you say that ALL White People are evil,and need to go
Then you say that ALL People are evil,and need to go
For the rest of us, Overpopulation isn't a problem,except for overpopulation of Cards fans
And the way the Dead Birds are Playing, that isn't a very big problem after all
Who's the Best in the National League?
GO CUBS GO!!!
Are there any sexy ChiCom ladies? Something about Mao and those boring little grey outfits thwarted any and all sexual desires.
unwanted pregnancies happen when the woman sees the man in daylight while sober.
I'm still waiting to hear from Inga why I'm responsible for Alexandria Ocassio-Cortez being such an astonishing moron in economics.
"It might take more than 30 minutes."
A non-inebriated woman meeting a man for the first time almost always knows within less than 30 minutes whether or not she wants to have sex with him and to have a relationship with him. She may not know that she knows it, but she knows it. She may not act upon it, but she knows it.
And she will signal the man accordingly. And therein lies the rub. Women signal this in different ways and it is not always obvious to the man. E.g., playing hard to get and shit-testing may be her way of signaling her approval. Unless it isn't. It can be complicated.
But also fun.
I speak from personal experience, and a record of success.
Inga is very very irritable.
Must be the 100 years of astonishing communist/leftist government failure and mass murder.
No wonder the lefties and google and twitter and facebook are bending over backwards to assist the communist chinese govt as they oppress their peoples while the Inga's come along and transfer the guilt to western conservatives.
"No enemies on the left!!" said every lefty everywhere.
Blogger Drago said...
I'm still waiting to hear from Inga why I'm responsible for Alexandria Ocassio-Cortez being such an astonishing moron in economics.
You Trumpsters couldn't have invented a better poster-girl for victory. Her latest was equating a debate challenge from uber-dweeb Ben Shapiro to cat-calling.
“A non-inebriated woman meeting a man for the first time almost always knows within less than 30 minutes whether or not she wants to have sex with him and to have a relationship with him. She may not know that she knows it, but she knows it. She may not act upon it, but she knows it.”
You have a point, but it takes longer than 30 minutes for a woman to decide to marry and have children with someone she might want to have sex with.
Howard said...
Mike K is bitter because women are taking control of medicine... it's an ego blow to know that a woman can do your job
**********************
Not really...when you realize that overwhelmingly, MEN have developed the medicines and surgical techniques, and invented the technologies, that allow women to serve as doctors.
It took three years to persuade her to dump the fellow.
Even so, I would contend that she knew within minutes that she wanted you. Deep down she *knew*.
Howard: "You Trumpsters couldn't have invented a better poster-girl for victory."
Nonsense.
Our R&D Groups even now are working on Inga Version 2.0 (a simple "spruce up" since Inga is already at peak lefty-dummy) and AOC Version 1.3 (this will be small modification in a couple key areas designed not alter her "logic" but simply to keep her talking).
She is the sort worth three years of trying, and all the pearls in China.
But there are indeed many fish in the sea.
Catching one (any given one) isn't too hard.
As I said, if you were born with the somewhat indefinable something, they simply come to you, knowing little to nothing about you, precisely that sort of instantaniety, the meeting of eyes across the room, the instant of introduction, the conversation that turns into obvious flirtation.
Not so much anymore (with age, sic transit gloria!) but in my day it was always a bit of an "uh oh" moment.
Be very careful old boy.
Its a very good thing I could hold my liquor.
“Inga is very very irritable.”
Inga finds you usually annoying. Something crawled up your butt and bit you today. Wife divorcing you?
OK Jay, lets say you are right, how do you explain Mike K's mysogyny? Being old? It's before the cocktail hour and Mike white-knuckles it until then, so it's not Dutch courage.
Hillary could have been an astronaut. Or a Marine. She said so.
Anything but President.
Inga is doing a lot of projecting today.
Not a good sign.
Mueller stuff not working out as planned, obviously.
Not to worry, you still have Rosie O'Donnell out there fighting the good fight.
Unfortunately for you and Rosie, fire really can melt steel, so, you know, you will have to deal with that.
By the way, have the lefties decided to back off their claims that Reagan stole the 1980 election with the "secret" Iran hoax and that GWBush stole both his elections?
I heard there was decision to rewrite that history to more effectively attack Trump.
Howard: "It's before the cocktail hour..."
LIAR!
It's never before the cocktail hour.
You sir, were no Navy man...
“She is the sort worth three years of trying, and all the pearls in China.”
That is very sweet!
“But there are indeed many fish in the sea.”
Indeed.
“Catching one (any given one) isn't too hard.”
I know.
“As I said, if you were born with the somewhat indefinable something, they simply come to you, knowing little to nothing about you, precisely that sort of instantaniety, the meeting of eyes across the room, the instant of introduction, the conversation that turns into obvious flirtation.”
Yes indeed. Makes me think of that beautiful song from a South Pacific, “Some Enchanted Evening”. That’s what’s missing today, old fashioned romance.
Then they say "A women needs a man like a fish needs a bicycle."
And then they discover, as their beauty and fertility fade, bicycles don't really have much use for fish, either.
Darrell: I thought cankles were disqualifying for astronaught. Have you seen a WM?? She could def pull that off
Talk about romance, I took the wifey to the dump this morning. It's one of her favorite outings.
They called WM's BAM's in my day. Kim Khardashcam would be proud.
And, in another victory for feminism, the majority of Chinese aborts have been children of the cisgendered female appellation.
Tell Hillary, Howard. She said it.
Not that you can tell Hillary anything, though.
Obviously Drago is bored by this sort of conversation, too much talk of love, sex, romance, courting, sexual attraction, procreation. Drago not everything has to be about your political point scoring.
Howard: "Talk about romance, I took the wifey to the dump this morning. It's one of her favorite outings."
I hear that's how Tony Curtis wooed Janet Leigh.
“Talk about romance, I took the wifey to the dump this morning. It's one of her favorite outings.”
Hey whatever floats her boat, you’re a good hubby.
Inga: 'Drago not everything has to be about your political point scoring."
Says the gal who right off the bat transferred the conversation from what the commie Chinese were actually doing to what she claimed the right in the US would like to do.
In Inga's defense, that was longer than 15 minutes ago so history began anew and she's forgotten that.
Most of the good shit is in the metal recycling rolloff and didn't hit that today
The dump isn't the same these days. She pines for driving on top of giant mountains of trash, the swarms of seagulls and the ginormous loaders and compactors.
Howard: "The dump isn't the same these days. She pines for driving on top of giant mountains of trash, the swarms of seagulls and the ginormous loaders and compactors."
There has got to be a deal you can strike with some company or heavy equipment company to get her in a monster machine and go to town.
Similar to how you can sign up for a combat flight experience.
Blogger Howard said...
Mike K is bitter because women are taking control of medicine... it's an ego blow to know that a woman can do your job
Howard, why are you so angry ? Half my students were women.
Well, maybe the dump reminds her that she found a gem among the garbage once.
Blogger Howard said...
OK Jay, lets say you are right, how do you explain Mike K's mysogyny? Being old? It's before the cocktail hour and Mike white-knuckles it until then, so it's not Dutch courage.
Why are you going on about this, Howard ? Did your wife turn you down last night ?
The left seems to be bitter lately. premonitions ?
Howard knows about as much about Medicine as I know about his pimping business.
Don't worry - it could never happen here!
“And, in another victory for feminism, the majority of Chinese aborts have been children of the cisgendered female appellation.”
Why is it that in any given country, where birth control is available, women choose to limit the amount of children they have? Are you trying to say that feminists are in favor of aborting females? I realize you’re being sarcastic, but it’s not feminism that caused women to take advantage of birth control or abortion.
“Women can control their behavior and not have irresponsible sex.”
Men can control their behavior and not impregnate them.
Women must never be made to feel bad about, or responsible for, anything, ever
Inga: " Are you trying to say that feminists are in favor of aborting females?"
This is demonstrably and irrefutably true.
Along with aborting males.
Thanks Mike, I'd rather be a pimp than a burger flipper in your eyes.
To Inga's point, Jordan Peterson cites the invention of the birth control pill, not femeninism, which caused a biological revolution in the 1950's
Drago, stop talking through your ass. Feminists are in favor of women having the choice to carry a pregnancy to term, or not. You’re trying desperately to derail this discussion. What, no other threads to harass lefties on?
Jordan makes a point that women on the pill don't select for a mate with high testosterone unlike women in heat who want manly men.
>Women can be astronauts, engineers, CEOs, viable candidates for the highest office in the land, etc.
Fine. Let me know when they start demanding 50% of roofers and ditch diggers be female.
I haven't seen any progress in the last four decades about equality in these fields...
Both one-child and selective-child (i.e. Planned Parenthood) are wicked solutions to albeit hard problems. Selective-child denies women's agency, human evolution, and universal human rights. Pro-Choice is two choices too late. It is torture (i.e. cruel and unusual punishment) in the first trimester. It is summary judgment (without the possibility of appeal) and execution of a wholly innocent human life throughout.
It's funny. Inga to the contrary, you don't read long articles by MEN defending their single status. You don't read articles by men that men need to Settle. You don't read about men freezing sperm in the hopes they might meet 'Ms. Wonderful', later in life.
But women do. Every day there seems to be an article about Men Droughts, frozen eggs, how 50 is the new 20 (it isn't. Fifty is the new 70.)
So Inga aside, the gripping concern about marriage seems to be one sided by gender. A man will marry a doctor, a lawyer, a cashier, a cleaning lady. They aren't picky if they are cute, affable and fertile.
Women have...'views'.
Nor does Inga address falling happiness levels in women. They have bigger and better careers...and are unhappy.
Hmm!
“To Inga's point, Jordan Peterson cites the invention of the birth control pill, not femeninism, which caused a biological revolution in the 1950's.”
Ah, something I can agree with Peterson on. Yes. They can blame medical technology. Feminism doesn’t matter much to third world women who’ve already had several children and not enough food in the house.
Remarkably little romance required, often enough, from experience.
Or none at all.
>Women can be astronauts, engineers, ...
Let me know when they start demanding 50% of roofers and ditch diggers be female.
That's not the point. Men and women are equal in rights and complementary in Nature. Reconcile. Pro-Choice (e.g. selective-child, diversity, political congruence) is avoidance and the religious/moral foundation for an unprecedented violation of human and civil (excepting the Twilight Amendment) rights and scientific corruption.
Dan: No man in male exclusive fields want women to work those jobs, why do you?
Blogger Trumpit said...
There are too many damn people. If you don't like my swearing, then how about "There are too many dumb people."
8/11/18, 2:44 PM
Well.
One anyway.
As for men and women, synthesize the couple. We are not children anymore. Strive to maturity.
“Nor does Inga address falling happiness levels in women. They have bigger and better careers...and are unhappy.”
FIDO, how about some citations to back up your assertions?
Blogger Howard said...
Thanks Mike, I'd rather be a pimp than a burger flipper in your eyes.
Howard, you don't have to be either but why the nasty comments ? You guys are too crazy. I'm off to the Hobby Lobby for more important things.
Jordan Peterson - Abortion, Birth Control and Marriage
Leaving the "battle of the sexes" aside for a moment (Thurber did it better, by the way), any government ought to care about the demographic future of the country, and most have done so. What a particular government can/should do about it depends on the nature of the government. If it's a totalitarian government, it can do whatever it likes, which is why Friedman applauded China a decade ago. In that instance, the Chinese government made a disasterously bad decision. It's unclear whether it can correct its error.
In the case of the US, ours is a government of limited powers, but it can exercise the powers it has wisely. It would be wise for the government to encourage natural population growth. A low birth rate means that it will be increasingly difficult to support our aging population. It also means that we have a shrinking cohort of young people to defend the country. We can't encourage natural population growth by prohibiting abortion or the sale of birth control devices, because the [which is it?] Amenmendment to our Constitution says the rights to abortion and birth control are guaranteed. But we can adopt tax policies and wealth transfer policies that support/encourage larger families. We can also adopt immigration policies that encourage more immigration by people who will contribute to the "American Way of Life". That's what we should be discussing.
From one-child to selective-child (i.e. Pro-Choice). From one extreme to another progressive (i.e. monotonic) extreme. Both wicked solutions, but the latter is normalization (i.e. promotion) of a barbaric (a la Aztec ritual sacrifice, NAZI denial of life deemed unworthy, Planning of underperforming fetuses, offspring, babies) practice in the general population for social progress and political causes.
Buh Bye, Mike! If you didn't run away, we would think you a sock puppet
“Fine. Let me know when they start demanding 50% of roofers and ditch diggers be female.
I haven't seen any progress in the last four decades about equality in these fields...”
There is nothing wrong with allowing a natural progression of women into the fields that suit them physically and mentally, no matter what that field is. I don’t see any women “demanding” 50% representation in fields that have been traditionally male. If it happens naturally, more power to everyone.
I thought AI and the life extension singularity was going to eliminate the need for population growth. Also, birthrates are inversely proportional to women's education level
Feminism is a poisonous ideology in the first world, where the typical family can afford to feed a platoon or two, but they nevertheless are deluded into childlessness.
This is all due to prevailing fashions, weaponised, exterminating memes.
These are calculated to attack women especially, they are much more vulnerable to them, their sense of consensus is so powerful.
Human "choice" is not, because people aren't entirely or even mostly independent actors, they are deeply influenced by social-communal narratives. Even unto death.
If some powerful propaganda wants to sell a certain behavior, it will have that effect. The easiest things to sell are things related to sex, especially to women.
The human animal has its instincts, like any other.
Inga: James Damore got fired from google for saying the 20% female in tech jobs was a choice preference, not patriarchy
we can adopt tax policies and wealth transfer policies that support/encourage larger families
Conservation of human life and value is complementary. Life taken for causes other than self-defense has clear and progressive consequences for the stability and quality of the community, and individual life and liberty. Women and men need to strive to maturity and leave their juvenile hopes, dreams, and choices behind.
I find it odd that Inga is here, gratuitously attacking Joseph Smith but she goes into hysterical cries of "Bigots!" every time someone mentions Muhammed and his follower's rather.... anti-female stances. Mention Rotheringham, England or Sweden's rape crisis and it's all "bigot hater McHatred!" from the left.
Meanwhile, Inga still has not refuted anyone in this thread mentioning the left's public adoration of Red China. Heck, Obama had staffers openly carrying around Mao's Little Red Book, and they were proud of it.
Oh, and Inga? Say what you want about Joseph Smith, but he was opposed to slavery when your party had that as the central point of their political platform. And Joseph Smith had a plan that would have avoided the Civil War. But people like you shot and killed him, again in the name of "Tolerance" and "Being a true Christian." Because "being a true Christian" like you always involves murdering people you disagree with, right? It's certainly a core leftist policy, as evidenced by the history that you refuse to acknowledge. Judging by the support for howling mobs that commit violence while being covered by masks, it's pretty clear that the left would have zero problems with the illegal murder of the Mormons. I fully, fully expect it to happen again someday, and sadly, not too far distant in the future. At least this time we Mormons won't be the only ones the left tries to murder.
buwaya puti: Peterson's point was that technology, not politics makes human animal re-prioritize instincts on a biological level. Your emotionalism and spiritual superstitions do not explain the deterministic workings of the world
How about adopting some more family friendly policies? Extended parental leave for new mothers, or for the new father if he will be the caregiver?
Out of the world's 196 countries, the US is one of only four that has no federally mandated policy to give new parents paid time off. That burden is placed on individual states and employers.
But some countries really prioritize the well-being of new parents — both straight and same-sex — granting them more than a year of leave at full pay.
Now don’t all agree with me all at once, lol.
Peterson is not correct, or not entirely so.
People have been messing with culture, and affecting reproductive behavior, long before "the pill".
Autofil won't let me insult Chinese. What did Voltair say about that?
Inga: men need to sack up and earn enough for the mom to stay home. floating a new entitlement program when the feds are drowning in entitlement obligations will help Trump and the republicans.
“People have been messing with culture, and affecting reproductive behavior, long before "the pill".”
Women have been trying to limit the amount of children they have for thousands of years, long before feminism.
And one more point, Inga: There's lots of people who may disagree on the question of whether Mormons are Christians. But what's not in dispute is that Mormons are far, far more Christian than the left. After all, the left preaches "Worship Government, not God. Commit as much sin as possible, because sin doesn't exist. Eat drink and be merry, because you shall not be punished... except if you cross a Democrat politician." More broadly, the left is fundamentally opposed to Christianity. This is, in fact, why the left loves it some Islam, despite the somewhat superficial differences that we see aren't really all that different between the left and Islam. Both the left and Islam view Christianity as their largest, most deadly opponent who must be crushed above all. A true, committed, believing and behaving set of Christians is the absolute worst nightmare for Islamic types as well as leftists. Which explains the all out assault you and yours commit, daily, upon Christ and his humble followers.
I find it very, very revealing that if you and the rest of the left were forced to pick a theocracy to live in, you would without fail choose being ruled by an Islamic one while screaming vile, unwarranted things about living in a Mormon, Catholic, or Baptist one.
buwaya puti: what you say is like comparing horses to the automobile. your point is Derrida deconstruction.
Vance thinks people actually read his drivel. lol
“Inga: men need to sack up and earn enough for the mom to stay home. floating a new entitlement program when the feds are drowning in entitlement obligations will help Trump and the republicans.”
Then men need to stop being selfish and be a good nest featherer if they want the female to lay her eggs in their nests. I hear complaints about women shirking their “natural” duty to bear children while at the same time men seem so unwilling to make it be something that a woman would agree to or be eager to do. Or they should STFU and stop complaining about the declining birth rate.
Indeed, Howard. As you say, only fools, idiots, and the brain damaged read my stuff.
Since you did, which one are you? And Inga clearly did up thread as well. So which one is she?
Government natalist policies have been remarkably ineffective.
Partly because they discourage employment in the first place, and partly because they don't target women very well, and partly because culture matters enormously more.
The new Hungarian law is simpler, and seems worth a try - for each child a woman bears, she gets 1/3 knocked off her outstanding student loans. Three kids and she's paid off for however much they were. Actual biological children, note, and this has the effect of targeting the more intelligent women. Since the US government holds all the absurd mass of student loan paper these days (you can thank B.Obama for that), this is something the USG can easily implement.
But the only solution is a powerful propaganda about the purpose of womens lives. And the sadness, the tragedy of the barren cat-lady, nevermind her accomplishments.
Vance, you need to realize that when you hand it out, you’ll get some back. I hope you’re not so deluded to think I won’t. Now stop blabbering at me.
Howard said...
Mike K is bitter because women are taking control of medicine... it's an ego blow to know that a woman can do your job
8/11/18, 4:05 PM
Yeah, he's jealous of you, fer shurr. No she-Marines are gonna be capable of satisfactorily gangbanging Okinawan preteens, so you have job security.
But are you the same Howard who wrote :
Howard said...
Dan: No man in male exclusive fields want women to work those jobs, why do you?
8/11/18, 5:07 PM
See the problem? No? Well, they don't pick Marines for brains.
Inga, I've never, ever thought you wouldn't try to sling a few insults around. No such luck. After all, you support Antifa and Black Lives Matter: It's a mercy that all we get are insults from you instead of the usual violent attacks on people that you support.
I don’t see any women “demanding” 50% representation in fields that have been traditionally male. If it happens naturally, more power to everyone.
*ahem*
The military.
Howard, note above re the differential birth rates of Mormons vs oh, Reform Jews.
Or Orthodox, or more so, Hasidic vs Reform Jews
Or Israeli vs US Jews.
Derrida does not come into it.
“I don’t see any women “demanding” 50% representation in fields that have been traditionally male. If it happens naturally, more power to everyone.”
———-
*ahem*
The military.”
A cite would be nice to support your assertion.
Those people sound like what the Trump administration wants, control over all women's ovaries. Keeping women from making their own reproductive choices and denying them access to safe termination of pregnancy, controlling them. This is the creed of the Trump administration and the Evangelicals. Gag me.
Vicki from Pasadena
BTW Vance, I do not support Antifa and BLM. What I do support is access to reproductive choices.
Howard said...
Inga: men need to sack up and earn enough for the mom to stay home. floating a new entitlement program when the feds are drowning in entitlement obligations will help Trump and the republicans.
8/11/18, 5:32 PM
Ah, but it can learn! Even a flatworm turns from pain.
Ultimately, though, you know how they say Mexicans can do the jobs overprivileged American workers can't or won't do? Well, Ukrainian, Filipino, Venezuelan, Romanian, etc, girls can do the (jobs) that overprivileged, overentitled, underperforming, broken American women can't or won't do, too. Next step: banning immigration of pretty girls.
Since the US government holds all the absurd mass of student loan paper these days (you can thank B.Obama for that), this is something the USG can easily implement.
Not a bad idea. I've thought that medical students should be interested in the military since they will pay for medical school.
Every year I would ask my group how many were going to school on loans. All would raise their hands. I would ask if any were interested in the military and no hands.
I do see kids joining who are medical students but they are going to second rate medical schools, some I have never heard of.
I don't understand why kids borrowing at least $57,000 a year would not be interested. They will be repaying those loans when they are 50.
“Those people sound like what the Trump administration wants, control over all women's ovaries. Keeping women from making their own reproductive choices and denying them access to safe termination of pregnancy, controlling them. This is the creed of the Trump administration and the Evangelicals. Gag me.
Vicki from Pasadena
BTW Vance, I do not support Antifa and BLM. What I do support is access to reproductive choices.”
Hear hear Vicki! We do sound alike, lol.
Sorry Vance we Christians don’t think Joseph Smith was a Prophet. Nor do those on the left think Communist China ever had anything to offer a modern society.
That's not what your Lightbringer said while he was POTUS.
Howard does not know enough about Medicine to realize that women tend to work 27% less than men in practice and all new doctors work far fewer hours than we did.
General surgery is, along with general internal medicine, the most demanding of long hours in Medicine.
Hence fewer women and also fewer new doctors. A few years ago a general surgeon (female) I knew told me that she knew of no general surgeon in San Francisco under 50 years old.
I am deluged with offers for general surgery from all over the country. Many with good incomes.
Inga THE TIME IS RIGHT . UNMASK !
Also I’ve known for months already that Langford Peel is Trooper York. Peel commented about some cheesy reality shows recently that he likes, which were very similar to the ones Trooper York always talked about. There were other giveaways, which I won’t mention until the time is right.
I wish I could post a link, the lines from "I, Claudius", where Augustus is berating the high-born bachelors of Rome, for failing to marry and carry on their patrimony, for the good of Rome.
" Look at that. "
" Do you know what that is?"
"It is a child."
"A Roman child. "
"How in Hades do you think it got there?"
That bit is accurate, there was Augustan legislation requiring marriage. And it wasn't unique, it was always the business of the Roman state to make sure that the Romans reproduced, especially the upper classes, the mainstay of the state, and that the great families endured. It ultimately failed. Culture beats law.
But these matters are indeed traditionally the business of the state.
Hence fewer women and also fewer new doctors. A few years ago a general surgeon (female) I knew told me that she knew of no general surgeon in San Francisco under 50 years old.
Kaiser Santa Clara has 20 general surgeons. Twelve are women
https://mydoctor.kaiserpermanente.org/ncal/mdo/presentation/providers/providersearchpage.jsp?refresh=true&Specialty=Surgery%20General&facility=Santa%20Clara%20Homestead#search%7C/ncal/mdo/presentation/providers/providersearchpage.jsp?page=1&sortColumn=lastCol&sortOrder=ASC&Specialty=Surgery%20General&facility=Santa%20Clara%20Homestead
Full Moon is in full howling mode again.
"No surprise. That's standard Communism.
"And that's why we need more "Free Trade" with China.
"Cause nothing says 'Free' like Communism."
What thought is this series of cryptic utterances meant to convey?
I wish I could post a link, the lines from "I, Claudius"
I just got through my second run through the series. So cool to see Patrick Stewart with hair. Brian Blessed was so good as Augustus and Siân Phillips as [boo-hiss] Livia.
"Who? Who said we should outlaw abortion in order to keep the birth rate up?"
It may not be the intended purpose, but it would certainly be the result.
Kaiser San Francisco seven surgeons, five are women, ya big galoot !
China isn’t. communist anymore, they changed their letterhead and some job titles and now they are single party fascists.
"Outlawing abortion does not force women to have children. Women can control their behavior and not have irresponsible sex."
One way to help young women achieve this is to provide ample sex education in the public grade schools, before puberty hits and hormonal impulses start dictating their behavior. Also, to make contraception easily available to young women without their having to go through their parents.
As further examples, European nations encouraged marriage in their colonies, going so far, at various times, as finding women for their colonists, and shipping them off to the wilderness.
Look up the "filles du roi" for a very famous case, of the French government finding women for Canada.
Britain and Portugal at least did similarly.
Myself, I think forcing a woman to have an abortion is a far more horrendous act than restricting her access to an abortion. Be interesting to see how this plays out among the feminists here......I suspect the story won't get much play, but that there will be somewhat more outrage directed at this than at their previous forced abortion policies.......The Chinese are apparently forcing their Muslims to live in resettlement camps. That also doesn't generate much outage, even among the Muslims. If you really want to gin up outrage you need straight, white Christians as your foil. (In the Mideast context, Jews can substitute for Christians, but straight, white Christians are the beau ideal.). You haven't really been oppressed unless you have been treated badly by Jesus freaks. All other forms of bad treatment are really just misunderstandings.
Full Moon, I am done responding to you. You seem to be obsessed with some sort of war on others, not just doctors.
Kaiser has many foreign medical graduates but it has become more attractive to US graduates because Obamacare has wrecked everything else.
They are all on salary and I doubt many will ever make partner in Permanente Medical Group.
I was referring to work ethic in new medical graduates.
OT:
Anybody want to talk about Bruce Ohr’s conversation with Christoper Steele?
And how Steele thought Mueller was on ‘Team Soft Coup’ for some inexplicable reason?
"finding women for their colonists, and shipping them off to the wilderness."
They definitely discouraged marrying locals, as the Spanish did in Mexico.
“As further examples, European nations encouraged marriage in their colonies, going so far, at various times, as finding women for their colonists, and shipping them off to the wilderness.
Look up the "filles du roi" for a very famous case, of the French government finding women for Canada.
Britain and Portugal at least did similarly.”
Were these women shanghaied? Or did they volunteer?
“I think forcing a woman to have an abortion is a far more horrendous act than restricting her access to an abortion.”
I suspect 99% of the population on earth agrees with this.
Michael K said...
Full Moon, I am done responding to you. You seem to be obsessed with some sort of war on others, not just doctors.
Ya big baby. Very, very disappointed in you.
This statement seems incorrect according to the evidence I provided.
Hence fewer women and also fewer new doctors. A few years ago a general surgeon (female) I knew told me that she knew of no general surgeon in San Francisco under 50 years old.
One can presume worse is yet to come. The documented gender imbalance in the younger demos in China that was in part associated with the previous one child policy means a country of princes who are wanting to be the lucky one, not one of the unlucky two.
I do think - btw - that a documentable preference for a baby goose OR a gander in a culture is trouble. Blessed is any child, leave it at that. So maybe NA culture might want to dial back the little girls over little boys preferences. It is showing up in the stats. See, if you dispute that, what gender is chosen when it can be (sperm donor, adoption).
Although.... be it through love or war, nature always finds a way...
He was a lonesome boy from Shanghai, she was a bright eyed girl from LA...
From left to left, from one extreme to another, from denying life to denying individual dignity to denying human evolution, then normalizing torture and recycling in the first trimester, and elective abortion for causes other than self-dense, all under the State established Church. Pro-Choice selects wholly innocent human lives for cruel and unusual punishment... the wicked solution, the final solution of communists, socialists, and progressives.
"So cool to see Patrick Stewart with hair."
Sorry to be the bearer of disillusion, but I think he was wearing a wig.
"It would be wise for the government to encourage natural population growth."
This requires a means be found to ensure all Americans can obtain secure jobs that pay well, offer medical benefits, and allow generous time off for maternity leave. I'm not holding my breath.
"A low birth rate...also means that we have a shrinking cohort of young people to defend the country."
Hey, that would be a good thing! There's been way too much lives, limbs, and money squandered "defending ourselves" (sic) in the last 70+ years, for no apparent need and to no apparent benefit.
And immigration reform to obscure the unprecedented loss of life, collateral damage from social justice adventures, and to secure the secular rites of aborting wholly innocent human lives that are disarmed, decapitated, and denied a voice for social progress, wealth, pleasure, leisure, and Democratic leverage. From one-child to selective-child a progressive path.
Howard said...
OK Jay, lets say you are right, how do you explain Mike K's mysogyny? Being old? It's before the cocktail hour and Mike white-knuckles it until then, so it's not Dutch courage.
*********************************
Sorry, I don't accept your premise, so there's no reason I would offer explanations for it.
After all, it's YOU who offered "the reason" why Mike K is so "bitter. And it's YOU who brought up that reason as "women" being able to do his job, thereby implicitly dissing women.
According to you, Mike's job is so easy that even women can do it!!!!
Snort.
Robert Cook said...
"A low birth rate...also means that we have a shrinking cohort of young people to defend the country."
Hey, that would be a good thing! There's been way too much lives, limbs, and money squandered "defending ourselves" (sic) in the last 70+ years, for no apparent need and to no apparent benefit.
*********************
Yeah, that's it! The US should unilaterally weaken and disarm itself NOW because of mistakes it made in the past.
Snort.
Howard, unlike Full Moon, is usually not always looking for a fight, so I was puzzled at his nasty comments.
For a lefty, Howard is usually pretty rational.
The issues of Posterity, of Planned Parenthood including selective-child and recycled-child and torture in the first trimester, are separable. The massive loss of life under the Twilight faith and Amendment, and the established Pro-Choice selective, opportunistic, and politically congruent religion, cannot be overlooked, whether it is carried out by a minority regime or an individual woman who contracts with Planned Parenthood corporation and other abortionists. Normalizing elective abortion (i.e. one-child, selective-child) has been notable and catastrophic progress from slavery. Another original compromise.
Buwaya, I'm reading a biography of Wendell Fertig.
Any suggestions ? This one was written with his participation.
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