August 7, 2018

"Rather than the deep substantive discussion that the moment demands, the treatment of Kavanaugh’s nomination has been dominated by aggrieved demands for civility..."

"... decency, and the earnest pinkie swears of the 1 percent. But the person who drove a stake in the heart of whatever remained of civility and decency is the same person who nominated Kavanaugh. This is Trump’s M.O.: to offer neither civility nor decency to anyone who isn’t wealthy and powerful, and then to demand it for himself and those with whom he chooses to associate. By these lights, tearing apart families seeking asylum is civil. Refusing service to Sarah Huckabee Sanders is not. Trashing the media and people of color is civil. Speaking ill of Judge Kavanaugh is not. So let’s be done with the civility of convenience, which we’ve learned only flows in a single direction and doesn’t apply if you are poor or brown or suffering.... Ask any law clerk at the Supreme Court to name the warmest, kindest justice on the bench and they will tell you Clarence Thomas is that guy. Every time. That’s not nothing, but it isn’t anything close to everything. Being lovely to people around you isn’t a proxy for judicial ideology and methodology. Let’s please respect Kavanaugh enough to stop talking about his mad carpooling skills... The state of Brett Kavanaugh’s niceness is not a constitutional question."

Writes Dahlia Lithwick in "No More Mr. Nice Justice/Brett Kavanaugh’s kindness and courtesy has no bearing on whether he should be confirmed to the Supreme Court" (Slate).

This gets my "civility bullshit" tag, and I agree with her about "the civility of convenience, which we’ve learned only flows in a single direction." But I laugh at her effort to put a one-way spin on that one-way flow. The larger idea of civility bullshit is that all sides use it when it serves their interest and — in the normal political discourse of the United States — it's only used to get your opponents to quiet down. It's not just used to shush the "poor or brown or suffering." It's used whenever it's useful, and no one is for civility as a neutral principle. It's bullshit. So, much as I agree with the first half of Lithwick's sentence — "So let’s be done with the civility of convenience, which we’ve learned only flows in a single direction" — I call bullshit on the second half — "and doesn’t apply if you are poor or brown or suffering."

279 comments:

«Oldest   ‹Older   201 – 279 of 279
Drago said...

two-eyed Jack: "I tried to make the point that the long arc of SCOTUS history is bending toward originalism,"

Did you happen to catch the lefty handwringing article the other day (I'm trying to recall which of LLR Chuck's favorite lefty publications it was) concerning Clarence Thomas, his impact on the last couple generations of new originalist jurists?

Darrell said...

What did I get wrong?

What? You couldn't find any link beside a Trump-hating source? If Annenberg wasn't steered by Lefties, do you think it would let Bill Ayers even get near their money? (Much less his little pal that shared an office in the same small building in Hyde Park, named Barack.

Drago said...

wwww: "ok, got other business to take care of,...."

No time like the present, I always say.

wwww said...


This is my other question for the people who insult:

Why are you wasting your time insulting people who are not real?

Interacting on the web is just little bits of texts talking at each other.

People catfish others on the web all the time. People pretend to be people they are not. Men pretend to be women. Women pretend to be men.

It's not a "real" interaction with a person. Why waste time with insults? Is it because you enjoy arguments that have no substance to them? I mean, there's no wit here. We're far away from the intellectualism of the post.

Why do you all go back-and-forth with chuck for hundreds of comments with no-substance personal insults? Why do you appear willing to do so with some "person" who is maybe a bot, called "wwww"?

Drago said...

I hope wwww has enough hours left in the day to complete his/her offline tasks.

wwww said...

"No time like the present, I always say."

Procrastination is fun. :)


seriously, I am curious. Why are the personal insults so much fun for commenters? It's not a real interaction. I could be a computer bot.


Drago said...

It is possible you are a bot.

In which case: The cow is in the dell.

I say again, the cow is in the dell.

wwww said...


I've been wondering about this for months!

I've read this blog since almost the start. I almost never comment.

But I've seen the comments change over time. I've seen the tone change. Things have been insult-y in the comments for quite a while, since at least 2010 or so.

The response to Crack yesterday was kind of crazy.

I've been wondering why the tone is so much more insult-y now. It's worse then it was in 2010/2011. Nothing like it was in 2006.

Darrell said...

wwww works for the FBI--as head of their Behavioral Analysis Unit. It wouldn't surprise me. "Cuckoo for Cocoa Puffs" seems to be a staffing theme for them these days.

wwww said...



I have been so curious why the insults have gotten so bad.

I remember when Simon left. Did he know the blog would head in this direction? Would you all have piled on him like you do to Chuck?

Is it a result of Trump's lack of decorum & civility? Or something entirely different?


Chuck said...

Darrell said...
What did I get wrong?

What? You couldn't find any link beside a Trump-hating source? If Annenberg wasn't steered by Lefties, do you think it would let Bill Ayers even get near their money? (Much less his little pal that shared an office in the same small building in Hyde Park, named Barack.


I don't care about what you think of Factcheck.org in general. I'm not sure what I think of Factcheck.org in general. In general, I don't like ordinary reporting masquerading as something quasi-official like "fact checking." All journalism should be fact-checked.

And so I ask what was it in the story of the Blumenthal-Gorusuch-Trump exchange that wasn't revealed in the hearing video that I linked, and what did Factcheck.org get wrong in the page that I linked?

Be specific.

Drago said...

wwww: "I've been wondering why the tone is so much more insult-y now. It's worse then it was in 2010/2011. Nothing like it was in 2006"

The conservatives/republicans finally decided to give the left back what the left has been dishing out for 80 years, and the left doesn't like it.

They never for a moment imagined the rules they put forward to govern the behavior of others would ever be used against them.

This has made this period of time a very difficult one for the left and has colored their interpretation of the general tone.

Like you are doing now.

What you really mean is: why can't the republicans/conservatives just go back to being very reserved and restrained while we call them nazi's and war criminals? Why are the conservatives so "uncivil" now?

LOL

Transparent.

Drago said...

LLR Chuck: "I don't care about what you think of Factcheck.org in general."

Of course you don't. You simply won't countenance any criticism whatsoever of your leftist sites.

Keep up the good work Chuck. The dems really need you this year.

wwww said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Drago said...

wwww: "haha nah my friends are in State."

Strike 2.

Foggy Bottom strikes again!

wwww said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Drago said...

wwww: "I'm not a real person to you all."

Nonsense.

Your pixels are as real as anyone else's.

Drago said...

wwww: "I find that odd."

Its fun watching you play the disinterested third party concern troll.

Inga tries that sometimes but, lets face it, she isnt equipped to pull it off.

Chuck said...

wwww said...


I have been so curious why the insults have gotten so bad.

I remember when Simon left. Did he know the blog would head in this direction? Would you all have piled on him like you do to Chuck?

Is it a result of Trump's lack of decorum & civility? Or something entirely different?


The Althouse Trumpkins say that they like Republicans who punch back hard.

I'm proof that they really don't. They just want to worship Trump. Worship of Trump is the prime directive. I'm a better Republican than Althouse. Althouse would be the first to agree. I expect that she's never had much of any interest at all in being a Republican or attempting to be a Republican.

But Althouse has a kind of bemused, anti-anti-Trump outlook. A curiosity about Trump's messaging that blends into defense of Trump.

So that's Althouse and her blog. She is solicitous of Trump, and I am critical of Trump. That's the whole difference. Her commenters think nothing of Althouse's politics or policies or acknowledged past support for Obama. As long as she remains devoutly uncritical of Trump, she's okay. Meanwhile, I am baselessly accused of being a Democrat, a lefty, a lefty supporter, a lefty ally, whatever... for the sole reason that I criticize Trump. When my politics and policies are otherwise pure mainstream Republican.

The Cult of the Personality.

wwww said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Darrell said...

wwww--

Welcome to the internet!
Your name should have given you a clue.

Drago said...

wwww: "family friends with a powerful Republican senator.

told ya you wouldn't believe me. :)"

On the contrary, that is the most believable thing you've written all day.

Drago said...

LLR and #StongDemDefender Chuck: "The Althouse Trumpkins say that they like Republicans who punch back hard. I'm proof that they really don't."

Nonsense. We appreciate any republican/conservative who pushes back against the insane lefty narratives and talking points that you and your lefty allies spew all day here.

wwww said...

Chuck,

I do not understand their reaction to you. It is so personal and weird. You voted for Trump. You vote Republican. You support Federalist judges. I have wondered if they'd act the same way to Simon.

Althouse voted for Obama, which no one seems to mind. She convinces them she is on-their-side, despite her voting practices, or her support for Roe v. Wade. To some extent, I think she is sympathetic, but they don't seem to understand how she views the actions on tariffs or other stuff.



"Its fun watching you play the disinterested third party concern troll."

On-line, you don't know when someone is playing, and when they aren't. Cat-fishing and all that. That's why it's not a "true" interaction that you can trust. That's why personal insults are silly. You don't know the person, thus the insult is irrelevant. The only insult that means something is about the substance or intellectual content of the comment.

Big Mike said...

All journalism should be fact-checked.

I’m so old I can remember when most of it really was fact-checked. Good times, good times.

Drago said...

LLR and Self-described Smear Merchant Chuck: " She is solicitous of Trump, and I am critical of Trump."

You are an admitted Smear Merchant who advances rumor-based attacks on children.

Every decent person around rejects that out of hand.

wwww said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
wwww said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Drago said...

Earlier wwww: "Chuck, I do not understand their reaction to you. It is so personal and weird. You voted for Trump. You vote Republican."

There is no actual evidence Chuck voted for Trump or votes republican.

Later wwww: "On-line, you don't know when someone is playing, and when they aren't."

Precisely.

Drago said...

wwww: "I've been accused, by a small accountant, of not being able to understand what it means to run a business."

I don't think your use of "small accountant" conveyed what you hoped it might!

Would the accountants opinion have carried more "weight" if he had been over 6' tall?

Darrell said...

wwww,

You should have told Simon your feelings before he left. Love like that should never be wasted.

wwww said...

There is no actual evidence Chuck voted for Trump or votes republican.


He's been around the blog. It's not as if you didn't know his comments and beliefs from before Trump.

He clearly supports Federalist Judges. I don't hear any issue on which he is not conventionally conservative. He just does not like Trump, the person.

mccullough said...

There are no powerful Republican Senators (or Dem ones either). Just because senators get very wealthy in office (their family members almost always become lobbyists/consultants) doesn’t make them powerful). Mayors or governors or presidents can be powerful. Not members of Congress. They are their to feed at the trough and shit when in where they are told.

Drago said...

Later wwww: "He's been around the blog. It's not as if you didn't know his comments and beliefs from before Trump."

Earlier wwww: "On-line, you don't know when someone is playing, and when they aren't."

Precisely.

Darrell said...

wwww,

Your family seems to do a lot of things. Yet, you don't seem to have any accomplishments of your own. I bet you talk about that with your therapist a lot.

Drago said...

One of these days I'm going to introduce Earlier wwww to Later wwww.

I think it would be interesting watching them interact.

mccullough said...

As you said, we could all be bots (or dogs). So there is no evidence for any of it. There is nothing so strange as how other people spend their free time.

Drago said...

Mccullough: "mccullough said...
As you said, we could all be bots (or dogs)."

It's the Dog Bots I worry about.

Darrell said...

Does it make your family sick to have a little Lefty in the fold? My heart goes out to them.

wwww said...


You'd have to ask DBQ her height.


Simon is a good Christian. I have the highest respect for him.


So did the comments get this way only after Trump came along? Or were they like this earlier? Last I checked in, people were much more issue-oriented. Then the Inga-Everyone fights started.

The Splooge Stooge post was over the top weird in people's reactions. But it wasn't gratuitous personal insults, it was over an issue.

mccullough said...

Simon is a bot

wwww said...


Darrell,

Silly, I'm not a lefty.

Being against tariffs doesn't make someone a "lefty."

Drago said...

wwww: "Being against tariffs doesn't make someone a "lefty.""

Quite right.

It just might mean that you are an unrealistic free-trader who doesn't mind rewarding other nations that are manipulating their currency, subsidizing their industries heavily, creating impossible barriers for US products, perpetrating massive intellectual property theft and helping other nations violate geo-specific zero-tariff free trade zones.

That's all.

Michael K said...

Last I checked in, people were much more issue-oriented.

The comments got so nasty in the 2016 fall, before the election, I quit for a while.

Inga keeps reminding me but some others asked me to come back. I did after the election.

It was really toxic. Patterico never got over it. He is still toxic.

Drago said...

mccullough: "Simon is a bot"

And a dog.

But darnit, he's the best Dog Bot Accountant you're ever going to meet!

Big Mike said...

@wwww, it’s easy. Chuck is a moby. In my time I have dealt with all sorts of Republicans, and Chuck’s comments are like no Republican I have ever dealt with. Chuck has asserted that he voted for Trump and other Republicans. I see no reason to believe him, given his attitudes. And many of his comments, especially when he goes racist, are the sort of thing a lefty who doesn’t know many (any?) real Republicans imagines a Republican would say.

It’s true that “Althouse voted for Obama,” but it’s not true that “no one seems to mind.” I gave her Hell at the time. I’m happy not to have been banned, and I suspect it was pretty close at the time. What I like about Althouse, and why I come back, is that I find her to be as close to truly neutral as one will find today. IMHO she is still left of center, but when she sees an unfair attack on Trump or his policies she pushes back. When she perceives that he is doing something wrong, she writes that, too. Also I like her photography and Meade’s wry comments.

mccullough said...

Drago,

Correct. “Free trade” was just another lie shoved up the asses of Americans. Not enough people falling for that anymore. The GOP and the Dem are about getting paid. That’s it. “I’m against tariffs but buy shit from China and Germany who impose tariffs” just doesn’t work anymore. I know the Clintons, Bushes, and Obama get rich off selling out the country but they aren’t in power anymore. McConnell sure made his wife’s family a shitload more money though.

Michael K said...

It is no accident that the Annenberg educational reform operations in Chicago were founded by Bill Ayers and employed Barak Obama as a director. That this operation achieved nothing was not unusual or surprising.

A lot of people don't know this or accept that it is a fact.

It's the old problem of the whore's child at the wedding.

Most of the left was born yesterday, even if they are 65.

wwww said...

"I see no reason to believe him, given his attitudes."

It makes perfect sense to me. Federalist judges on the bench up and down. Domestic policy of de-regulation.

The risk would be worries about unpredictability with respect to foreign policy, NATO, soft power in global influence. Long term party risk is the GOP brand for the under 45 age voters due to the character & sexual issues and erratic tweets.

One can be happy about the first and upset about the second group of concerns. One can be personally offended by T.'s character yet approve of the nominees to the courts and general domestic policy.

Anonymous said...

Drago: Its fun watching you play the disinterested third party concern troll.

Meh. Chuck owns the humor-impaired sperg shtick around here. 4-dub should work on polishing the "soccer mom with an advanced degree in international trade relations from NPR" character that she introduced recently. That was good stuff.

On other hand, scrolling through, I gotta admit that...

"Please be clear about what you mean by the above statement. Is is not clear to me that you understand Queen is the Head of State of the United Kingdom, or that you are clear on her powers."

...and a few associated comments were golden, easily the equal of Chuck's school-marm stick-up-the-buttery at its finest. So you may have a point.

Two-eyed Jack said...

I have been reading Althouse since 2004. I never commented until quite recently.
I admire, most of all, our host's indefatigable blogging. I could never do what she does, and most people proved that they could not either. They quit blogging or retreated to Twitter, where they don't even have to string sentences together.
I have thought that her comment section attracted many thoughtful and amusing people over the years. I have sometimes thought of commenting in the past, but doing so effectively requires creating a persona, meaning enough engagement to be understood. This is work.
Some people create personas that are based upon Punch-and-Judy fights with others of their ilk. They are comic creations. I wonder if all of them realize what they are doing.
Some people are simply destructive and filled with chip-on-the-shoulder swagger. It is best to cross the street when you encounter them.
The best are thoughtful and honest, even if I might disagree. I have profound differences with past iterations of myself, but remember where I was coming from, so some of it is like typing into a time machine.
There are many commentariats on the web, but almost all are dominated by idiots who don't listen, never learn, and insult you. You might as well read graffiti in a public restroom.
There is a great deal of hostility abroad in the world right now, so maybe it is the times, maybe the scale, maybe changes in taste that are making things worse here, but this is still much better than most places you might put forth an argument.

Michael K said...

wwww, Here is a a thread from October 16 before the election.

That was before it got so toxic.

Comment thread after the election.

Tell me why it got toxic, wwww.

Michelle Dulak Thomson said...

Henry,

Thanks for posting Bork's argument in favor of Brown from The Tempting of America. It ought to be mentioned, though, that he's describing Brown as he himself would have written it, not as it was actually written.

His point was that Plessy had been proven wrong in scores of suits: "Separate" simply wasn't "equal," and that went for segregated everything, not just education. But the Brown decision confined itself, allegedly, to education, complete with all the psychological garbage about black children wanting to play with white dolls and all the rest of it. It ended "Separate schools [my emphasis] are inherently unequal." And yet, Bork writes, over the next decade-plus, scores of segregated everythings -- you name it -- were junked, with no more than a cite to Brown. On his rationale, that would have made sense. On the one actually in the Brown opinion, it didn't.

So: Right result, wrong argument. On Roe, it was wrong result, wrong argument, but then by the time of his confirmation hearings it was unclear what the actual argument was, except that it wasn't the one in the opinion. By now I've heard Roe argued on the basis of most of the Bill of Rights, the Civil War Amendments, and Lord only knows what else. To be fair, I haven't heard a Third Amendment argument, so I'll give it to y'all gratis: A fetus in utero is, as it were, a proto-human being, and therefore potentially an enemy soldier; the woman bearing it lives in a "private home," and thereby is (potentially) "quartering" an enemy soldier against her will in a private home.

Hey, it's weak, but so are all of them. I think it was the late Ronald Dworkin who argued that the fact that you could argue for Roe from any angle you wanted and get the same result meant that the decision was obviously correct. Someone should have clued him in about universal solvents.

Two-eyed Jack said...

Michelle Dulak Thomson, Ronald Dworkin also used Brown as a backstop to Roe, arguing in one NYRB piece I read that rejecting Roe requires one to reject Brown. Since no one could reject Brown, everyone would have to accept Roe. This had all of the logical punch of an ontological proof of the existence of God.

Francisco D said...

"Meanwhile, I am baselessly accused of being a Democrat, a lefty, a lefty supporter, a lefty ally, whatever... for the sole reason that I criticize Trump. When my politics and policies are otherwise pure mainstream Republican."

Chuckles,

The accusations are far from baseless. You cite lefty web-sites, get your news from NPR and defend Obama, Dick Durbin and other left-wing Democrats.

Oh! You were an Election Day judge (ostensibly Republican) who vouched for the integrity of Detroit elections. That Obama carried some precincts with 120% of the vote did not bother you.

Maybe you are a registered Republican but in service to the left wing of the Democrat party. IOW, a mole.

Chuck said...

Big Mike said...
@wwww, it’s easy. Chuck is a moby. In my time I have dealt with all sorts of Republicans, and Chuck’s comments are like no Republican I have ever dealt with...


I think that my comments, on things related to Trump and on things unrelated to Trump, are like a mixture of George Will, Bill Kristol, Max Boot, Ben Shapiro, Bernard Goldberg and Kevin Williamson. At least, they are all opinion writers whose views I mostly agree with.

And just like Ted Cruz said, I think that Donald Trump is a "pathological liar," "utterly amoral," and "a narcissist at a level I don't think this country's ever seen." So I'm like Ted Cruz.

And just like Mitt Romney, I thought that Trump was a chaos candidate who would be a chaos president.

And just like Marco Rubio, I think Trump is a "con artist."

And just like Lindsey Graham, I think that as a party, we are better to risk losing without Donald Trump rather than to try winning with Donald Trump.

So I don't know what sort of Republicans you know, but those are some Republicans (or former Republicans) that I'm aware of. And as for being "former Republicans," I'm no doubt "more Republican" than several of the people I noted. Because I voted for Trump and don't regret it. I don't like it, and I didn't like doing it, but I don't regret it. And I am still a Republican, and still a volunteer for the party. Volunteered for work just this morning in fact.

Big Mike said...

Not a mole, a moby.

Darrell said...

Chuck--

Thanks for listing the Republican "cucks"--as the kids say today--that I will never support in any way from a donation to a vote. It saves me looking them up. It's even better that most have beclowned themselves in the last couple of years, too. Puts you in with great company! So open your borders and welcome in your new masters. I'll enjoy the best President we've had since Reagan--at least!

Bleach Drinkers Curing Coronavirus Together said...

I call bullshit on the second half — "and doesn’t apply if you are poor or brown or suffering."

Without any evidence for doing so, of course.

Chuck said...

Francisco D said...
"Meanwhile, I am baselessly accused of being a Democrat, a lefty, a lefty supporter, a lefty ally, whatever... for the sole reason that I criticize Trump. When my politics and policies are otherwise pure mainstream Republican."

Chuckles,

The accusations are far from baseless. You cite lefty web-sites, get your news from NPR and defend Obama, Dick Durbin and other left-wing Democrats.

Oh! You were an Election Day judge (ostensibly Republican) who vouched for the integrity of Detroit elections. That Obama carried some precincts with 120% of the vote did not bother you.

Maybe you are a registered Republican but in service to the left wing of the Democrat party. IOW, a mole.


You liar. You don't know what I "vouched for" as an RNLA election day volunteer. There wasn't any "120%" of the vote in Detroit and you don't know what the hell you're talking about. And you're just trolling on this, because I have already straightened you out on this nonsense multiple times. You troll.

I've never "defended" Dick Durbin. I took his side in a dispute exactly once; it was when Durbin said that Trump used the phrase "shithole countries." As generally confirmed by Lindsey Graham (to Tim Scott, and Jeff Flake), and as never-denied by anybody else.

I listen to NPR. You claim that I get my news from NPR as if I did that exclusively. Again, a mischaracterization by you. As to what I cite (link) in comments, my suggestion is that if you think any content is wrong, say what that is. Instead of rejecting authorities based upon who they are.

Drago said...

LLR Chuck: "George Will, Bill Kristol, Max Boot, Ben Shapiro, Bernard Goldberg and Kevin Williamson."

LOL

There is no way Bernie Goldberg or Ben Shapiro belong on the list.

And Williamson is out too.

Since Kristol and Boot have now long called for democrats to win, you'd fit right in.

The delusions of grandeur in you is beyond parody.

Drago said...

LLR Chuck: "You liar. You don't know what I "vouched for" as an RNLA election day volunteer."

And we never will.

What we do know is there is no bigger advocate for and "advancer" of lefty/dem talking points on this blog than you.

None.

wwww said...

Michael K,

I can say this. The current personal insults of some commenters is not fun for me. I like intellectual debates.

Earlier the blog had a different tone. Many more women commented before say around, 2010. I'm not an expert on this. i leave for years at a time when I get busy.

Commenting on the blog this year. A few commenters get personal very quickly.

Example this thread. I posted a bland comment about civility. A commenter reacted with a personal insult, as if I had written some controversial, upsetting or personal comment. It was not a substantive response. I was confused if the individual did not understand Commonwealth countries. The interaction degenerated.

I am careful to never personally insult others. The same is not true, in reverse. I'm taken aback at the personal insults and the degeneration the comments from former years.


In the past people could argue about hot button comments without getting personal. People debated about subjects such as gay marriage and more sensitive subjects without getting personally insulting. Long threads of comments were interesting to read as a bystander.

That's missing from the blog. This type of thread would degenerate into personal insults. It would be boring, uninteresting, and sound like a script for "Mean Girls."

It feels to me as if some commenters are interviewing for their role as a 7th grade girl. The personal comments aren't even fun or witty.

I've seen people insult long time commenters like Freedman Hunt over the Confederate statutes. She ignores that nonsense. Not what I used to see around here.

I go away for years at a time, so I miss stuff. I don't know what started it. I can say personal insults are thrown around in a way in this last year that I had not seen before.

I seem to remember things getting a little wild with Inga during the Walker protests.


ON the links:

The first link is giving an error statement.

The second one, I am glancing at it now. around 2::39. People are talking about the reaction to the election. Second to last comment is Laslo Spatula. I see R&B arguing with people.

it hasn't degenerated into a back and forth between just a few people -- calling each other vile names, like i've seen. Comments seem upset with news coverage.

this is long. Which section do you want me to read?

It hasn't degenerated yet into names like "titty twister". Man, I can't believe people do that on this blog. it's like something out of 8th grade.

Darrell said...

wwww

Thanks for elevating the level of conversation/commenting on this blog. Your concern is noteworthy and highly appreciated. We are worthy of your presence. Good luck finding a blog where your thoughts will be appreciated and celebrated. And don't let the door hit your ass on the way out.

Michael K said...

it hasn't degenerated into a back and forth between just a few people

Blogger Amanda said...
http://www.salon.com/2016/11/10/the-real-reason-black-voters-didnt-turn-out-for-hillary-clinton-and-how-to-fix-it/

https://thinkprogress.org/indiana-registration-raid-51a6a7a83f37#.ifa7sueqf

"This was enabled by the Supreme Court’s 2013 decision to nullify Section 5, related to preclearance, in the Voting Rights Act of 1965. That portion of the law, passed under the President Lyndon Johnson administration to prevent voter suppression on the basis of race, requires that states with a history of such practices gain approval from U.S. Department of Justice before making any changes to voting regulations. The absence of that federal oversight has allowed numerous states to restrict early voting hours, which is aimed at targeting voting among people of color. Black voters are more likely to cast ballots in the early morning than any other group."

"A report from the Leadership Conference Education Fund found that there will be 868 fewer polling places in states that had previously been covered by the law. Of the counties surveyed in Arizona, every single one had restricted voting access. Texas and Alabama also decimated the availability of polling places: A respective 53 percent and 67 percent of counties had fewer places to vote than they did during the previous election."

There is lots more, take a lot for yourself.

The election was stolen by GOP Trump operatives, they straight up committed voter fraud
http://www.gregpalast.com/election-stolen-heres/


Just an example.

wwww said...

Darrell,

I'm a long-time observer. What's your issue bub? What did I say that is factually wrong?

You got anything substantive to say besides insults?

wwww said...


Michael,

I do not understand if you are saying that is an article from an Althouse comment thread, or something separately posted elsewhere on the web.



Darrell said...

You are playing the concern troll, with how many comments? Look up "concern troll" if you must.

wwww said...


Althouse wrote a post about civility b#llsh*t. Drago took us off-topic with his personal insults. I addressed his comments -- to talk about the value of civility in comments. I agree this is open to debate. I am curious if you find a benefit in the personal insult threads.

If not the place to talk about the value of civility in comments, then when? Why not justify the use of personal insults? Or write something non-personal.

Let's make it a real conversation instead of a insult-festival.

Rusty said...

Hate tobreak this to you Chuck, but you ARE a duck.

iowan2 said...

Whats with the idiotic notion of indicting a sitting President???? The Justice dept can no more indict the President than the President can jail the Atty Gen and his deputies.

There can be no criminal way to harass the President. This is just to simple to have to explain.

The only solution is political. That way the people are the check and balance on the system.

Impeach the President. The Senate convicts, and removes him from office, then the justice dept can go crazy. Justice served.

Darrell said...

Drago took us off-topic with his personal insults

You plugged up the toilet by asking the same question twenty times. Did you forget? Do you often forget? Comment and move on.

wwww said...

My next comment will be something on SCOTUS to move away from this.


However....Darrell,

People are addressing my comments specifically. If you are not interested in engaging me, why in the world are you engaging me?


If you all do not like how the comment threads disintegrate, you have to look at your own behaviour.


You are addressing me specifically. Why don't you move on? Say something else. Stop engaging me. Stop asking me questions or throwing insults at me.

I am not throwing insults at you. Stop with the insults. Post something interesting about civility or SCOTUS.

This is why these comment threads disintegrate into ridiculous boring back-and-forths.

You all do this all the time with Inga and Chuck and you throw out insults to people like Freedman Hunt. She's good at ignoring it. Inga and Chuck are not.

But don't just blame the scapegoat.

It takes more then 1 person to derail a thread.

Chuck would leave a comment and move on if you all did not engage so intensely.

Just as Drago did with me. Leave the comment alone if you are not interested in the substance. Stop provoking people and derailing the thread.

You are blaming people like Chuck when you all are at fault for this nonsense. Just as I am at fault for engaging with Drago instead of ignoring his insult.

Notice how I am ignoring others who have insulted me on this thread. I routinely ignore personal insults because I know it derails threads.

Did not today, because the post was about civility b*llSh*t.

My curiosity got the better of me today. I am curious. What makes that type of person tick? Not those who rarely insult, but those who consistently do so. Those who are personally cruel? Does it make that type of person feel superior? Is it a self-esteem issue? Are they bored? What's it all about? What's in it for them?




wwww said...

SCOTUS and Kavanaugh.

Is it civility b*lls*it that he is a good Dad and carpools his kids? Like Scalia's pipe smoking, it's charming, but irrelevant.

There's one thing that matters. The number of votes. He has the votes now.

But Kavanaugh has many many papers. That's gonna be a road block for a speedy vote. Trump was told that Kavanaugh had more papers and he would be harder to get confirmed quickly. McConnell is doing his best. There is a threat of the Senate turning after November.

Articles about carpooling are charming, but, ultimately, irrelevant.

mccullough said...

Kavanaugh has been on the Court of Appeals for a dozen years, almost as long as Alito and Sotomayor were. No one is going to hold up his hearing over papers from 14 years ago stored in the National Archives. Guy is just a typical GOP Judge as Sotomayor was a typical Dem Judge. Ivy League, no real world experience in anything useful just straight to law school with typical GOP Judge resume. Never in military or law enforcement. Never started or ran a small business. Grew up in urban area and married with children. A fucking soccer dad.

Howard said...

Rudeness and name calling on a blog????? OMFG, I'm having a panic attack. Kavanaugh is shoo-in. Politics games played to favor midterms. The rest is calipering the johnson, in which case, Darrell wins because everyone of his numerous orifices are filled with bags of dicks.

Saint Croix said...

Civility has its value entirely apart from content. We have a shared interest in rational discourse because it's far better, most of the time, to talk it out than fight. It's the left that has abandoned reasoned discussion and principled liberals like Pinker have discussed this at length.

This is right.

Donald Trump is so controversial because he has abandoned reasoned discussion and rational discourse. He has gone for the emotional appeal of insulting your enemies.

This is a leftist tactic. They've done it for decades. All my life, really. It's why so many people register as an Independent, or a Democrat, and then vote Republican in secret. Because what the left does, all the time, is call Republicans racist, sexist, and fascist, over and over. They did it to Mitt Romney. Mittens! They savaged him. This had been their tactic for decades.

And Donald Trump comes along, the lifelong liberal New Yorker. And he promptly abandons reasoned discussion and rational discourse.

Why do that when you can have so much fun insulting your enemies?

Democrats freak out because they believe that people in the government ought to be better than us. So they're horrified that this insulting person has power. And yet Democrats have been using the fascist/racist/sexist insult for decades to achieve power.

Donald Trump is the "civility bullshit" tag, in the White House.

Saint Croix said...

Roe v. Wade is civility bullshit.

Planned Parenthood v. Casey is civility bullshit on steroids.

The Carhart opinions are the real deal.

I think the judiciary will continue to engage in civility bullshit. Among other reasons, they are dressed as if they are priests. They are dressed as if they are holy people who are speaking for God. But they are not holy people, and they are not speaking for God. They are not even speaking for the Constitution half the time.

What they are is people who think they are the final word. And they're not that, either.

I don't know how abolitionist Supreme Court Justices and slave-owning Supreme Court Justices sat next to each other. Civility bullshit, I think. They go through that hand-shaking exercise and try to remain friendly. Which is always nice, in your personal relations. But it can be a real shit deal to people who are outside your little circle.

See also babies who are decapitated in the middle of birth.

Our media, hiding the bodies for 45 years, is a prime example of "civility bullshit." This is not to say that it would be a happy or fun or peaceful world, to see the truth of what we are doing on the nightly news. But it would be a more honest world.

JOSEPH ANGEL said...

Black and brown people do not belong in white America. If they feel aggrieved, they need to leave.

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