August 26, 2018

"More than 30 people have been honored by lying in state in the Capitol Rotunda, a gesture reserved for the country’s 'most eminent citizens,' since the practice began in 1852..."

"... after the death of Henry Clay, the former House speaker and senator from Kentucky. Mr. McCain would be the 13th former senator to be granted the honor, according to the Architect of the Capitol."

From "John McCain to Lie in State at Capitols in Washington and Arizona" (NYT).

Here's the list of 30 that begins with Henry Clay.

The death of John McCain changes the national discourse, the national mood, just as we are enduring intense political passions (which I have called a "national nervous breakdown"). I hope the change is for the better, but so many people, on both sides, are deeply committed to maintaining an atmosphere of hysteria, despair, outrage, and anxiety.

Do you remember how the death of Ronald Reagan affected the course of politics in 2004? From the eulogy (delivered in an election year by the candidate for reelection):
See, our 40th President wore his title lightly, and it fit like a white Stetson. In the end, through his belief in our country and his love for our country, he became an enduring symbol of our country. We think of his steady stride, that tilt of the head and snap of the salute, the big-screen smile, and the glint in his Irish eyes when a story came to mind.

We think of a man advancing in years with the sweetness and sincerity of a Scout saying the Pledge. We think of that grave expression that sometimes came over his face, the seriousness of a man angered by injustice and frightened by nothing. We know, as he always said, that America's best days are ahead of us, but with Ronald Reagan's passing, some very fine days are behind us, and that is worth our tears....
A white Stetson hat... these days we have red MAGA hats.

157 comments:

David Begley said...

Over at Power Line, many of the commenters are slamming McCain. I’m revulvsed.

The Dems will never change. We are still divided and remain so. It’s a fantasy to think otherwise.

Darrell said...

Ir's not a nervous breakdown because it was a planned strategy by the Left to prevent any opposition party from governing, initially financed by Soros.

Eleanor said...

As long as CNN is the only channel to cover the festivities, cart his body around to as many venues to display it as they like. Everyone who wants to honor McCain should have the opportunity. The rest of us should do what our grandmothers taught us and say nothing at all. But to expect us to do that, it's only fair that his death not have wall-to-wall coverage 24/7. One channel 24 hours a day should be enough- like a plane crash gets covered.

rhhardin said...

They can't just leave him at the curb to be collected?

So many pointless rituals.

rhhardin said...

Trump lucked out in being explicitly uninvited. That was McCain overestimating his popularity.

Humperdink said...

"A white Stetson hat... these days we have red MAGA hats."

Maybe it's just me, but I read that as a slam against the current occupant of the WH.

Trump .... "is someone who stands athwart (recent) history, yelling Stop, at a time when no one is inclined to do so ..."

Darrell said...

What a good time to name the Mexican/USA border wall the John McCain Wall.

Roger Sweeny said...

I always thought:

1) If you are a newsperson, especially a tv newsperson, you have to say nice things about the dead. When it's a dead president, you have to say them for a while.
2) Most newspeople did not like Ronald Reagan (and that's putting it mildly).
3) They hated having to say nice things about him.
4) This frustration helped ensure even more negative coverage of Bush W--and made Bush Derangement Syndrome easier.

FIDO said...

I'm sorry but at some point, I would think the President would have a say in who gets so honored. Certainly he has enough clout to block such a circumstance.

So Trump did NOT block this from occurring. For all the talk of Trump being able to hold a grudge, McCain could have taught him a great deal about that skill...

Browndog said...

Schumer to introduce resolution to rename Senate building after John McCain

Tregonsee said...

Possibly for the first time, I agree with Chuck Schumer on something when he suggests renaming one of the Senate office building for McCain.

Bob Boyd said...

In Hanoi, on edge of a lake, there's a concrete monument to honor the people who captured John McCain when he was shot down and landed in the lake. If I remember right, they rowed out in a boat and hauled him into it. He was seriously injured from the ejection. It would have been pretty damn scary for McCain, I imagine.
His flight suit is on display at what is left of Hoa Lo Prison, otherwise known as the Hanoi Hilton, where McCain was kept as a POW.

rhhardin said...

The John McCain School of Aircraft Repair

rhhardin said...

Name a cloakroom after McCain.

The Crack Emcee said...

I will never get over how bizarrely insane this supposedly-modern country really is when observed over time. Along with the goofy "beliefs" comes the macabre spectacles. Lying in state? Creepzilla, he's DEAD - is this the Soviet Union?

America isn't "The New World" any longer, but a medieval one - with high-speed internet.

Birkel said...

Does the Senate Outhouse have a name, yet?

stevew said...

If they didn’t do this for the Liberal Lion of the Senate then they shouldn’t for John McCain. Expanding the standards cheapens the honor.

-sw

robother said...

Interesting list. Henry Clay and Lincoln, the first 2, set a high bar, but Swamp creatures intrude in each generation thereafter. Striking omission: US Grant (what did he ever do?).

Kind of surprised there was a Vietnam Unknown soldier: I would've thought identification science had advanced enough by then to make that unnecessary.

Ralph L said...

I don't think private citizens should have the honor of Rotunda-lying, and I'm not too sure about politicians, either.

Ralph L said...

I bet that was a Peggy Noonan speech about RWR.

hawkeyedjb said...

John McCain deserves to be remembered for his life, not simply his politics. He was a sailor, an aviator, a warrior whose line goes well back. Men like him and his ancestors are important to the life of a nation. They endure a lot for their country, for us, and we should recognize that. Most politicians are empty, small people who never do anything of any significance with their lives. Put the politics aside and mourn the man, an American, a patriot. Nations don't live without men like him.

rhhardin said...

McCain was trying to live up to his ancestors and went for grandstanding.

Ralph L said...

robother, he was exhumed and identified in 1998 and reinterred by his family.
Wiki

Josephbleau said...

I know what US Grant did for America. He deserves our respect. His Presidency was abused by deep state criminals, so the buck does stop there. As Trump has taught us, a president is not all powerful and is often not able to thwart all bad actors.

Matt Sablan said...

It already has changed the nation. Eight years ago, McCain was an unrepentant racist and enabler of Nazis, now, he's "one of the good Republicans" who we should emulate. He was a man who had no leadership qualities, and now he is a beacon of bi-partisanship and bringing two sides together.

All you need to know about how much the left believes about their "so-and-so is a Nazi" rhetoric is to watch how quickly it gets dropped when it isn't useful.

It is a shame that in McCain's death, the left is going to pretend that they "always liked him." The "strange new respect" genre of article, Facebook post and blog comment about him is already infuriating. It's like watching people approach the casket to mourn the dead, while pulling their knives out of the deceased's back.

I genuinely liked McCain, even I didn't always generally agree with him. I wish more people could do that.

FIDO said...

Name the building that the Federal Housing Finance Agency belongs in to McCain.

Matt Sablan said...

"If they didn’t do this for the Liberal Lion of the Senate then they shouldn’t for John McCain."

-- To be fair, McCain didn't leave a woman to drown while callously trying to save his own political skin. I can see why some people may think Ted Kennedy didn't really deserve the honor.

The Crack Emcee said...

hawkeyedjb said...

"John McCain deserves to be remembered for his life, not simply his politics. He was a sailor, an aviator, a warrior whose line goes well back. Men like him and his ancestors are important to the life of a nation. They endure a lot for their country, for us, and we should recognize that. Most politicians are empty, small people who never do anything of any significance with their lives. Put the politics aside and mourn the man, an American, a patriot. Nations don't live without men like him."

Hear, Hear

Matt Sablan said...

"3) They hated having to say nice things about him."

-- Then, as now, was a time for "strange new respect" so they could properly put in perspective how terrible "Today's Republicans" are compared to the "good ones."

In 10~ years or so, I expect Trump to get the same treatment.

Glen Filthie said...

Oh stuff it, you virtue signalling cucks. That old bastard should have been put out to pasture decades ago. His is the face of what’s wrong with the Republican Party, and they and the country is better without him. He was given every opportunity to be a great man and he blew them all.
I’m gonna buy a round for the house, and celebrate the fact that Ted Kennedy is dead, that Hillary and Obama are bad memories... and we are finally winning.

JackWayne said...

Considering the Democrats thought he was Hitler and the Republicans thought he was a traitor, it can only be mawkish sentimentality about a Ruling Elite dying so young. Cut down in his youth. After all, aren’t Senators entitled to live to 100?

Matt Sablan said...

I can see it now: "At least Trump knew he had to make nice with Russia compared to [Current Anti-Russian Warmongerer.]"

Bay Area Guy said...

I do like the Althouse phrase - "a national nervous breakdown," but I think it is a bit too broad, and doesn't quite capture what is happening.

The Left is having a "national nervous breakdown," but are claiming that Trump is causing it. They say Trump is so far beyond the pale that
that their national nervous breakdown is justified.

My point is that the "breakdown" is asymmetrical. If loyal hordes of Trump supporters, were wearing penis hats and protesting, boycotting and rampaging through the "Gender Studies" Departments of major universities, freaking out and trying to freak us all out, Althouse would be closer to the truth.

But, of course, this isn't happening. There isn't more than 15 to 20 neo-Nazis left in America, and they are scattered, disorganized with zero political clout. Rather, the hordes of Trump supporters are blue collar, 50- year old white guys, happy to be employed, going to NASCAR events on the weekend, and BBQ cook-outs later on.

Etienne said...

I don't believe a body is even in the casket at these staged events. Peasants come to pay respects, but all that is in there is four sand bags.

I guarantee...

Drago said...

From this point forward, John McCain will always be voting democrat in our elections.

MikeR said...

While he seemed like a pretty okay guy, I don't see why McCain's death should calm the national derangement.
On the other hand, he was one of the leaders of the derangement. McCain could be counted on to criticize the President for whichever controversial thing he just did. He was the poster boy for the liberals of a Republican who is part of the Resistance. So probably the liberals will miss him a lot.

The Crack Emcee said...

If they're going to have McCain lying in state, there should be a parade of NewAgers who didn't use regular cancer treatment - but encouraged each other to go "natural" - marching around his body and chanting "Shame! Shame!" like in "Game of Thrones".

There's so many, and they, too, deserve their day in the sun.

Tommy Duncan said...

"...but so many people, on both sides, are deeply committed to maintaining an atmosphere of hysteria, despair, outrage, and anxiety."

Both sides?

The Crack Emcee said...

John McCain was getting bad medical advice - unlike some people: A YouTuber who claimed being vegan cured her cancer has died from cancer

Henry said...

I hope that someday George W Bush is eulogized as well as that. Like Reagan he wasn't a perfect man and he made some profound policy mistakes. But he was a good man.

RichAndSceptical said...

What did McCain accomplish as a Senator that makes him worthy of such an honor?

Darrell said...

Blogger Tommy Duncan said...
"...but so many people, on both sides, are deeply committed to maintaining an atmosphere of hysteria, despair, outrage, and anxiety."

Both sides?


If Althouse didn't say "both sides" all her Lefty friends would set out to destroy her. More than they do now.

Sebastian said...

"A white Stetson hat... these days we have red MAGA hats."

A good thing, since we all know cowboys are fascists.

Henry said...

Both sides?

Just read the other comments. It is a backwash of resentment and paranoia.

Henry said...

Possibly for the first time, I agree with Chuck Schumer on something when he suggests renaming one of the Senate office building for McCain.

Better McCain than the arch segregationist.

My name goes here. said...

hawkeyedjb said...

"John McCain deserves to be remembered for his life, not simply his politics. He was a sailor, an aviator, a warrior whose line goes well back. Men like him and his ancestors are important to the life of a nation..."

Hold up right there. This is America. We broke the yoke of an aristocracy more than 200 years ago. Here a man, or woman, is to be judged on their merits not those of their line.

"...They endure a lot for their country, for us, and we should recognize that. Most politicians are empty, small people who never do anything of any significance with their lives. Put the politics aside and mourn the man, an American, a patriot. Nations don't live without men like him."

He was a patriot, and I view him a hero for what he had to endure and that he did not let it lessen his humanity. That does not change the fact that I think he had many qualities of lesser, petty politicians and was in many ways just like them, and that he was prone to grandstanding.

Sebastian said...

"so many people, on both sides, are deeply committed to maintaining an atmosphere of hysteria, despair, outrage, and anxiety."

Huh?

So, they got antifa, pussy hats, riots at the inauguration, 24/7 anti-Trumpism, daily front-page denunciations, impeachment mongering, a 2-year Mueller collusion collusion, preceded by foreign oppo research and CIA spy-ops against the Trump campaign, and on our side we got what -- Trump's tweets?

Crimso said...

"A white Stetson hat... these days we have red MAGA hats."

One will get you beaten by the latest iteration of the SA, the other is largely ignored.

I remember when Reagan died, and all the wonderful things the media were saying about him. I was disgusted by the fact that those same organizations (in many cases, the same people) hurled absolute hatred and vitriol at him when he was POTUS. Reagan hadn't changed, and neither had the media. They were just playing nice because they didn't want the public to see how truly despicable and dishonest they are. But many of us remembered. Their insincere show of respect was swallowed by the millions who weren't old enough to remember how they had treated Reagan. But many of us remembered.

Matt Sablan said...

Crimso: I feel the same way right now watching Politico, NYT, WaPo and blogs and the like pretend they always liked the guy.

Matt Sablan said...

Like, this Biden tribute that just got tweeted out? Where was Biden's "McCain is a decent guy," when Obama made fun of the fact McCain was physically handicapped and couldn't use a computer?

You know where it was? Nowhere.

Etienne said...

rich hahn said...What did McCain accomplish

He, along with President Clinton helped restore relations with Communist Vietnam, and apologized for our using them in a proxy war.

readering said...

This is where I come to read folks who make cranky John McCain seem like serene Buddha.

Michael K said...

I was a volunteer for McCain in 2000 and thought he was better suited than Bush. By 2008, he was too old and was a terrible campaigner. He actually had an excellent health care reform plan but he didn't understand it and could not explain it. He was hopeless on Economics and had no clue about the 2008 financial breakdown, which was the result of Democrat policies and laws since Carter.

Obama didn't understand it, either but Obama was never expected to know anything. He was a symbol, a blank screen for people to project their hopes. He even said that.

McCain was pushed into the Naval Academy by family and his grandfather was the national hero.

Personally, he was a jerk. He wrecked politics with his campaign finance "reform" that has put all legislative power in the hands of the staffers.

His last act of spite was to not invite Trump to the funeral.

AllenS said...

Agree with Michael K.

Browndog said...

The Tea Party Movement, launched in 2009, changed Congress in historic fashion. It was then left to bleed out in the halls of Congress by the hands of men like John McCain.

I will not engage in a personal attack on McCain's character, but I would caution against lecturing those that do. What John McCain said about his fellow citizens that supported the Tea Party Movement and Donald Trump gives them license.

Koot Katmandu said...

WTF. Whats with the Trump bashing lately. Revulsion at picture and now your after a MAGA hat? Sounds like you think his voters are deplorable too.

Browndog said...

I too voted for McCain in the 2000 primary, and to this day still think he would have been a better President than W. I also think that experience made him a bitter man.

Dust Bunny Queen said...

Condolences to McCain's family.

That is all.

Bob Boyd said...

John McCain's courage was tested in ways that few are ever tested. It was not found wanting. I can certainly respect him and honor his memory for that alone.

Darrell said...

DBQ said...Condolences to McCain's family.

That is all.


Amen.

The Drill SGT said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
virgil xenophon said...

Discerning the "truth" about anything is very much like archeology. One has to dig down through the functional equivalent (in terms of extant factual data points) of several geological superimposed layers of philosophical analysis to obtain a full picture of the epoch or event one seeks to understand. Focus too tightly on one layer and one may or may not reach an appropriate appreciation for what actually took place.

In McCains case the sentiments expressed by hawkeyedjb and echoed by Crack reflect one aspect of reality with which I agree. but they are far from representing the total picture. When viewed from a dispassionate distance the opinions of Gen Filthie represent an equally valid strata of reality with which I also asoc. myself.

Short ans: An honorable man who risked his life in the service of his country but who had some terrible political views who hung around waaay beyond his political shelf-life.

Jupiter said...

Before you get all weepy about McCain, you might want to know that there is a great deal of evidence to suggest that he was anything but the military hero he is widely supposed to be. He makes Kerry look good. Read it, then weep if you're so inclined.

http://www.unz.com/article/mccain-and-the-pow-cover-up/

http://www.unz.com/runz/american-pravda-when-tokyo-rose-ran-for-president/

Kevin said...

Absolutely agree that Peggy Noonan had to have written that.

AMDG said...

Can we celebrate the war hero and lament what he became?

The life of a man who refused to come home while his comrades would be left behind is one that should be honored.

The life of a politician who succumbs to pettiness and egotism is all too common to be honored.

Celebrate the former and forget the latter.

mtrobertslaw said...

I haven't seen any comments about McCain from his fellow prisoners in Hanoi. Very strange.

madAsHell said...

Before you get all weepy about McCain

He has always admitted that he was broken by the Vietnamese. Walk a mile in his shoes.

The Drill SGT said...

Jupiter said...

I think those two articles are slanderous lies...

Just my 2 cents

AllenS said...

I'm uncomfortable with this phrase "war hero" describing McCain. Over the years I've heard countless stories that the opposite was true.

Browndog said...

His last act of spite was to not invite Trump to the funeral.

Maybe. By not resigning, allowing the voters of Arizona to replace the seat, his successor will now serve a 4 year Senate term by appointment.

If he cut a deal to put his wife in that seat.....

bagoh20 said...

The 2008 election was a terrible choice. I voted for McCain, becuase it was a choice between a man with a brave history who I rarely agreed with politically compared to Obama who was clearly the most inexperienced and unaccomplished man to ever win a primary, and who openly disliked and misunderstood what America was all about, not to mention the basics of economics, power, and this nation's exceptionalism in past performance and continuing responsibility.

I expect McCain would have been a terrible President, but I'm confident he would not have been worse than Obama, but probably damned close. At least our enemies would have feared him, which is a big part of the job, and much of why Obama accomplished virtually nothing. And, McCain could not possibly have been as bad for race relations.

Imagine if Obama turned out to be a strong, economically intelligent president who understood what made America great and wanted to continue that, instead of "fundamentally transforming" it though weakness and long disproven leftist ideas. Imagine if Obama just simply pursued the same policies as Trump but with his own style. That would have made Blacks proud and rest of us accepting, and the Democrats would be unbeatable for years to come, but then Obama would not be a Democrat.

clint said...

The last name on the list is a surprise: Billy Graham.

bagoh20 said...

Although it sometimes served him, John Mccain was nothing if not stubborn right up through the end. God probably called him home months ago, but he just wouldn't go.

Birkel said...

No wonder Chuck, fopdoodle extraordinaire, is so upset.

Trump is trying to achieve the economic policy goals McCain actually ran on.
(save immigration)

tim in vermont said...

John Mccain was nothing if not stubborn right up through the end.

“Poor judgement and an iron will.”

At the end, he went over to the Democrats, raising the collective IQ of both parties.

Lyle said...

Why would anyone publicly pay their respects to John McCain or any other career politician? The hero worship/respect shown of such people is kind of crazy. He was never even President. There is probably going to be a lot of government employees taking advantage of the occasion to take a break from government work and tourists just happening to be there the same day.

How much will it cost the taxpayers?

stevew said...

"-- To be fair, McCain didn't leave a woman to drown while callously trying to save his own political skin. I can see why some people may think Ted Kennedy didn't really deserve the honor."

Agree. My comment was facetious. It is the rare political officer holder that deserves this honor - Lincoln being the most deserving, IMO. All these other 'public servants' are, by their actions over their careers, self-aggrandizing and self-serving.

A good argument can be made that McCain is deserving due to his service and the circumstances of his capture, imprisonment, and torture in Vietnam. But, then, that would nominate quite a few others for the honor.

-sw

Leland said...

Heh, just saw Glenn Reynolds post announcing John McCain's death. There are 666 comments.

Gunner said...

The McCain family should be mature and invite Trump to the funeral. Then they would see all their false Trump-hating friends melt away.

The Crack Emcee said...

The role of "Statesman" has been reduced to "politician", which has been reduced even further, to that of professional liar, and - based on that criteria - John McCain was lousy at his job. In this new Right-Wing political world, led by Red Meat Republican ideologues (who always hated where "Maverick" was headed) they rarely doubted he meant what he said, the bastard. Add in the singular fact, that he'd already demonstrated having more balls than all of them put together by the time his first mustache had grown in, and there's a lot to despise there. How you gonna punch a hero who can't raise his arms, right?

The clash with Trump is natural - The Macho Response - the old lions playing out the changing of the guard. Y'all don't want John McCain - you want Alex Jones - and you got him. Just as Barack Obama had Oprah. They sold "HOPE" as politics. What do you think this administration with Alex Jones AND Dr. Oz AND a QAnon-believing 'conspiracy analyst' is possibly selling? John McCain would've told you.

But you don't want to know.

Michael K said...

Jupiter, that Unz article is interesting.

I met Bud Day at a McCain rally in Little Saigon but I can't remember if it was 2000 or 2008.

It will be interesting to see what POWs say or don't say.

chickelit said...

Browndog wrote: “I will not engage in a personal attack on McCain's character, but I would caution against lecturing those that do. What John McCain said about his fellow citizens that supported the Tea Party Movement and Donald Trump gives them license.”

Well said.

Bruce Hayden said...

“Interesting list. Henry Clay and Lincoln, the first 2, set a high bar, but Swamp creatures intrude in each generation thereafter. Striking omission: US Grant (what did he ever do?).”

Clay and Lincoln were a high bar, but recently it has been lowered a lot. I barely recognized a couple of recent honorees, and that, I think, is indicative of their lack of national stature. I disagree about him doing a better job than GW Bush did, but definitely would have done better than Obama. But a lot of people fit that bill - I think that maybe Crooked Hillary may even have done better. That was a low bar.

Birkel said...

McCain supported the IRS abuse of American citizens.
The IRS was ordered to pay fines because they operated in a conspiracy to deprive citizens of civil rights.

Molly said...

(eaglebeak)

During a campaign appearance in 1992--that is, in public--McCain called his wife Cindy a c*nt.

https://www.huffingtonpost.com/michael-woods/when-mccain-called-his-wi_b_139624.html

He also made some rather harsh references to "gooks" during the 2000 primary campaign in New Hampshire.

So it was not surprising when in July 2015, he referred to Trump's Arizona rally as having "fired up the crazies."

mccullough said...

This “lie in state” stuff seems a bit much. If we are going to keep it in some form, I’d reserve it only for presidents who die in office.

I’m surprised FDR wasn’t one of the baker’s dozen on this list who have lain in state in the Capitol. The man was president longer than anyone and died in office while WW2 was still on-going.

But given the number of US soldiers killed during the War, and that it was still ongoing, it would have seemed haughty to do this. The people leading the US in 1945 were much better men than the ones leading us the last 30 years.

McCain had long military service before his long political career. So of those in Congress, he probably has earned it the most. Then again, John Glenn was one of the Mercury astronauts and had a distinguished military career before he was a Senator. If he had only won the Dem nomination in 1984, he would have lain in state.





Ray - SoCal said...

McCain actually does Trump a favor by not having him at his funeral.

The lying in state is a middle finger to Trump, Congressional Leadership was the decision makers for this honor.

McCain even held a grudge after death - very Scots-Irish!

Darrell said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
mccullough said...

I missed Billy Graham’s name on the list. What a huckster that guy was along with the huckster presidents who would trot him out to show what humble men of God they were. He was the Rev. Wright to the WASPs.

Graham’s net worth was $25 million when he died.

Curious George said...

All this means is a delay to piss on his grave.

Marcus said...

I will wear a red MAGA hat and risk having Althouse revulsed by it. In fact, can I wear it and walk past the deceased's casket and not get attacked by the Left? How dare anyone, ANYONE, lecture us on civility? Remember that Trump made the comment about McCain AFTER McCain called me and other Trump supporters crazy.

Darrell said...

All this means is a delay to piss on his grave.

I hope Jane Fonda is buried in Chicago, a half-block from my house at one of the two large cemeteries. That way I can start a business where, for a fee, I will send you a container that you can piss in and mail it back, and I will deposit it on her grave. I'll be set for whatever little remains of my life.

rehajm said...

The best way to lower the national discourse is to keep handing lefties election defeats.

The best way to intensify it is to condition lefties that the fits work.

Narayanan said...

To "honour" John McCain III

I announce new adjectival phrase for funerary stylebook

... With efflusive revulsion ...
... efflusively revulsive ...
Etc

Birkel said...

Darrell,
The check is in the mail.

Big Mike said...

A white Stetson hat... these days we have red MAGA hats.

A cheap shot, Althouse, and not worthy of you. But I will answer it by pointing out that there are lefty Millenniels ready to physically attack any white person wearing a red baseball cap, even when there is no MAGA logo on it. There’s something fundamentally wrong with people like that.

You may lament the “national nervous breakdown,” but from where I sit it doesn’t look National at all. It looks like one party staying a 21 month hissy fit at the results of an election. Even if I hadn’t voted for Donald Trump I would absolutely feel compelled to defend him as strongly as I can, because to do anything less is to acquiesce in raw evil.

Birkel said...

I thought I saw a report saying millennial men had moved toward Trump by a substantial percentage.
Not everybody lives in the big cities where reporters live.

Generic ballot even according to Rasmussen.

Big Mike said...

Oh, and I agree with everything Dr. Michael K wrote in his comment at 8:45.

chickelit said...

“A cheap shot, Althouse, and not worthy of you. But I will answer it by pointing out that there are lefty Millenniels ready to physically attack any white person wearing a red baseball cap, even when there is no MAGA logo on it. There’s something fundamentally wrong with people like that.”

Recall that in the first published photo of Meade in this blog, he was wearing a red baseball cap.

Narayanan said...

Senator McCain's final challenge to Trump ...

*Tweet your way out of this, ha ha*

gg6 said...

May, John McCain find some honorable peace in death, I say. But is it OK to also be impolitely honest? John McCain struck me as an angry, self-righteous individual and the mostly pro forma media-tributes work very hard to ignore that. imho, his suddenly revered 'historic service' and 'good nature', etc, is short-lived tale indeed. Where were the verbal bouquets and parades on the 50th anniversary of the first US POW in VN? How many of them were honored in the Rotunda? What did McCain ever do to memorialize all his fellow POWs? Zilch, it seems to me.
As to the idea that many Americans are currently "...on both sides... deeply committed to maintaining an atmosphere of hysteria.." That "both" word is simply hogwash.

chickelit said...

Will Bill Clinton “lie in state” or will once be enough?

AllenS said...

Sorry, after BJ Clinton's death, there will only be a cigar to remember.

The Drill SGT said...

Browndog said...
His last act of spite was to not invite Trump to the funeral.

Maybe. By not resigning, allowing the voters of Arizona to replace the seat, his successor will now serve a 4 year Senate term by appointment.


2 year appt
2 year special election
6 year standard term

jj121957 said...

Well.... he did kill a bunch of commies and that deserves a salute.

Narayanan said...

Q asked above : what did he achieve?

Truthful, factual answer : he brought the Steele Dossier to the Nation that was waiting for it and that's how he saved his Nation.

Browndog said...

The Drill SGT said...

You are correct. Me, not so much. Thanks for correcting the record.

Anonymous said...

First I don't agree that McCain's death changes anything other than getting him off the scene. He was too interested in his status to have much of a following among the general populace.

There is some irony, I think, that we are honoring John McCain who bombed the North - that helpless, innocent country - during the awful (Democratic) Viet Nam war where all US participants were war criminals while we are pulling down the statues of honorable civil war veterans who were, apparently, war criminals as well.

Curious George said...

"Darrell said...
All this means is a delay to piss on his grave.

I hope Jane Fonda is buried in Chicago, a half-block from my house at one of the two large cemeteries. That way I can start a business where, for a fee, I will send you a container that you can piss in and mail it back, and I will deposit it on her grave. I'll be set for whatever little remains of my life."

I'd be an investor and customer.

tcrosse said...

I'd be an investor and customer.

It would save having to stand in line.

Big Mike said...

Khesahn is right. McCain’s death changes nothing. For that matter, I don’t think Reagan’s death changed anything either.

Jupiter said...

The Drill SGT said...

"I think those two articles are slanderous lies..."

If they are lies, they are certainly slanderous. But if they are true, then they are damning truths. The people who were POWs in NV are a close-knit group, and you don't hear any of them praising John McCain. Not the ones who made it home, and certainly not the ones who were left behind.

tim in vermont said...

Generic ballot even according to Rasmussen.

Rasmussen is biased Republican and we all know who holds the House, the Senate, and the White House... Oh, wait...

Seeing Red said...

The Progs hated Ronnie while he was alive. Whatever they said in memorium, I didn’t believe them.

Seeing Red said...

Rasmussen is biased Republican and we all know who holds the House, the Senate, and the White House... Oh, wait...

So they’re neutral then?

I remember when he walked back his prediction on Kerry and said W could win in 2004.

Seeing Red said...

I still think Wisconsin was an iffy call.

Big Mike said...

Recall that in the first published photo of Meade in this blog, he was wearing a red baseball cap.

I didn’t remember that, but if he wears a plain red baseball cap around Madison these days he’s at risk of being attacked. Of course, he does look like the wiry sort of guy you’d do well to avoid in a bar fight. Not that I know anything about bar fights, having never been in a bar. Nope. Never.

Anonymous said...

The Drill SGT:

I think those two articles are slanderous lies...

Just my 2 cents


That was my assumption, too. But considering that they're directed at a man who was happy to slander his countrymen in the basest way, for the basest reasons, I can't get too worked up about it.

Michael K said...

you don't hear any of them praising John McCain. Not the ones who made it home, and certainly not the ones who were left behind.

I'm also waiting to see what they say, if anything.

MeMySelf said...

The left is batshit crazy right now and most of the rest of us just want to be left alone to live our lives. Go to work, raise our kids and just live without the over reaching hand of government telling us what we can and can not do, all the way down to not being able to use a plastic straw, or what size drink we can order. Until that changes, the political discourse won't change. Leave me to my life , keep the crazy in California, Illinois, and New York, just leave me and mine be.

Matt said...

7:39 AM
Glen Filthie said...
Oh stuff it, you virtue signalling cucks. That old bastard should have been put out to pasture decades ago. His is the face of what’s wrong with the Republican Party, and they and the country is better without him. He was given every opportunity to be a great man and he blew them all.
I’m gonna buy a round for the house, and celebrate the fact that Ted Kennedy is dead, that Hillary and Obama are bad memories..."

Hear, hear.

rcocean said...

McCain would've been a terrible President and he would destroyed the Republican Party.

Remember he wanted to run a one-term "Bi-partisan" Administration with Joe Lieberman as his VP.

Judge picks would've been off-loaded to a "Bi-partisan" panel of Senators to ensure no "extremists" - like Scalia or Alioto got through.

And we probably would've got into 4 different wars, Syria, Libya, Iran and Russia.

Nothing indicates McCain was a level headed thinker. He was the exact opposite, always popping off with some hot-headed remark about bombing Iran, calling Putin "Evil", declaring a Russia-Georgia border dispute "the worst foreign policy crisis since WW2" and of course calling his fellow senators "Beeps" and "wacko-birds"

I didn't want his finger anywhere near the nuclear button.

rcocean said...

His death will only improve our politics. His primary function was to help the Democrats and MSM divide and demoralize the Republican party with his constant "Maverick" attacks on Trump and support for Amnesty, Open borders, Middle east wars, and bad trade deals.

Anyone - except his wife - would be an improvement.

Darrell said...

Whatever they said in memorium, I didn’t believe them.

They were shouting it out on every street corner as the Reagan caisson passed by.
And i believed they were that stupid and disgusting.

rcocean said...

My first thought was that McCain didn't deserve the honor, but then I looked as some names on the List:

Rosa Parks, Claude "red" Pepper, Billy Graham.

So why not McCain. He died while in office and had served for 30 years.

robother said...

"They lowered him down o'er the ships dark side,
And above him closed the dismal tide.
He bore no costly winding sheet
To wrap around his head or feet.
They lowered him down where the billows roar,
In the deep, deep sea far from the shore.
A girl on shore, many tears will shed
For the one who lies on the ocean bed.
Above his heart the whale will hiss,
And his pallid lips the fish will kiss."

The Cracker Emcee Refulgent said...


“Oh stuff it, you virtue signalling cucks. That old bastard should have been put out to pasture decades ago. His is the face of what’s wrong with the Republican Party, and they and the country is better without him. He was given every opportunity to be a great man and he blew them all.”

Harsh, but absolutely true. McCain spent far more of his life personifying the abuses of public “service” than sacrificing for it’s virtues.

Francisco D said...

"From this point forward, John McCain will always be voting democrat in our elections."

I was about to ask if anything has changed, but I recalled that his lifetime ACU rating was in the 80's. He was not an ideal representative for conservatism, but he was certainly better than the alternative.

Supposedly "moderate" Democrats (if any still exist) struggle to have ACU ratings in the 20's.

I did not like the man, but I voted for him on 2008. He is lucky that he lost to Obama. McCain would have struggled as POTUS with the media whose approval he so desperately needed.

langford peel said...

The only way to honor John McCain properly is to take a page out of the Italians book.

Let's give him the full Mussolini.

Ralph L said...

How many of the long time POWs are still living?

I briefly worked for one in the Pentagon, but he'd been shot down during the last big bombing offensive late in 1972. Still a hero for risking his neck, but a very different experience.

Ralph L said...

Francisco D, you missed the joke. It was voting in elections.

Francisco D said...

"Francisco D, you missed the joke. It was voting in elections."

No Ralph. I got it. After all, I grew up in Chicago.

I used the quote to make a different (logically inconsistent) point.

Jim at said...

The death of John McCain changes the national discourse, the national mood, just as we are enduring intense political passions..

Sorry, no. The death of John McCain doesn't change a damn thing except the people of Arizona will finally have representation in the Senate.

That's it.

William said...

John McCain had some magnificent moments. He deserves all the honors. That said, the wish of the Democrats to heap honors upon him is motivated more by a wish to flip the bird to Trump than by respect for McCain.........Can anyone name a single Democrat who criticized the North Vietnamese for their policies of torture.......I like the idea of pissing on Jane Fonda's grave. What better expression of free speech. By pissing on her grave, I don't mean to disrespect her memory but to protest against torturers and their enablers.

Birkel said...

When are we planning for RBG to lie in state?
I think she deserves it.
How about January?

The Drill SGT said...



here is a POW story from last night

http://time.com/5286085/john-mccain-pow-remembrance/

“He was a dear friend; I loved him like a brother,” said Orson Swindle, who shared a cell with McCain during his captivity. “We came home [from Vietnam] and we had a long friendship.”

“He came within a heartbeat of dying,” said Paul Galanti, who was in an adjacent cell to McCain in the prison. “He was put in a full plaster body cast and he couldn’t take it off for six months. His body just was becoming unglued.”

“We were crouched in the dark or dull light often in conditions of climate that were either hot or cold, but we were together. For many of us this was something — to be able to interact freely with other human beings,” said Major General John Borling, a career Air Force officer who spent six years in the prison. “This was our attempt to stay sane stay competitive, stay reinforcing one to another. John was highly contributory to that.”

“When push comes to shove not only [did] he have my back and I’ve got his, but he’s got the back of the country in mind,” said Borling.

“I’ve always regarded him as a great American citizen,” he added. “America’s better for his presence.”



Rosalyn C. said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Birkel said...

The Drill SGT,
I know McCain’s service is a personal issue for you.
And I know that McCain probably did as well or better than anybody could be expected to do.
His circumstances were dreadful and his injuries severe.
It makes me uncomfortable when people second guess his behavior.
And Jane Fonda can go to the lowest ring of hell.

But McCain supported IRS harassment of the Tea Party.
And he was involved in the Steele Dossier dissemination.
His political opportunism and his support for the Deep State are dark stains on his political career.

But the latter does not stain his military service.

FullMoon said...

I am a simple guy. I wanted McCain Pallin to win because Obama had little experiance and I liked Pallin's story.

What I remember most is McCain calling for suspension of presidential campaigns in order to deal wit financial crisis. Cut to next shot, roundtable of big shot politicians gonna brainstorm, McCain sitting silent like a big dummy and Obama yakking it up, stealing the show. Was then that average LIV, me, realized what a lightweight McCain really was.

R.I.P.

Rosalyn C. said...

I have a lot of mixed feelings toward McCain and don't want to speak badly of the recently deceased. However he's really not the major national figure the mainstream media is making him out to be, he stayed too long in Washington, and with our national short attention span whoever has something to say should do so now because there probably won't be an opportunity in the future.

A little while back I examined McCain's legislative accomplishments and found his record was thin to say the least. He won't be celebrated by historians for what he accomplished in the Senate and certainly not for the length of his service. He's being celebrated today over at MSNBC for his civility towards his colleagues and his ability to reach across the aisle in Congress, his thirty years of service, and his wilingness to remain a POW for five years rather than leave his fellow prisoners. Al Sharpton and his panel of pundits were bemoaning the lack of willingness to cooperate by current politicians, which made me laugh since the Democrats' motto is Resist.

IMO -- It will be a stain on McCain's reputation that at his funeral and state honors what will be most glaring will be McCain's decision to be petty and vindictive towards the President of the United States and Commander in Chief. I don't see this as a healing moment.

Inga...Allie Oop said...

“Over at Power Line, many of the commenters are slamming McCain. I’m revulvsed.

The Dems will never change. We are still divided and remain so. It’s a fantasy to think otherwise.”

It’s the Dems who are slamming John McCain?? Yesterday’s and today’s McCain threads here have many conservative commenters who are “slamming” John McCain. Interesting how you blame Democrats.

Inga...Allie Oop said...

“WTF. Whats with the Trump bashing lately. Revulsion at picture and now your after a MAGA hat? Sounds like you think his voters are deplorable too.”

I suspect Althouse is rethinking writing her book, “Trump and how I learned to love him”.

Birkel said...

I suspect Royal ass Inga thought McCain was literally Hitler in 2008.

Bill Peschel said...

"He's being celebrated today over at MSNBC for his civility towards his colleagues and his ability to reach across the aisle in Congress,"

That "reaching across the aisle" got us Don't Ask Don't Tell, the China trade deal that eviscerated American manufacturing and the gay marriage ban.

That alliance between the open borders Dems and the business wing of the GOP brought us engineers from Asia and illegal aliens depressing American salaries.

Reaching across the aisle also kept Obamacare in place.

I don't see that as a great accomplishment.

Michael Fitzgerald said...

I genuinely disliked McCain, even when I sometimes agreed with him- because he was lying. I wish more people could be honest.

Michael Fitzgerald said...

McCain was a scum of the earth liar, devious thief who used his position of influence to enrich himself and screw others over. After the truth of this dirty dossier comes to light, the McCain name will be held in contempt for the rest of American history.

Lying in state? Better they should drag his rotten corpse through the streets.

Michael Fitzgerald said...

I don't honor scumbags, liars and thieves just because they used to be in the military. Those of you who do, go kiss Bowe Bergdahl's ass when you're done making love to McCain's corpse.

stephen cooper said...

Michael Fitzgerald - I kind of like McCain, if for nothing else than this - while a neocon himself, he always gave the even more neocon Bushes a hard time.

I like Trump too.

Of course you and me and McCain and Trump will never have a beer together.

Almost everybody lies, Michael. People who don't ever lie are rare, and a large fraction of people who never lie are saints.

McCain, I will admit, was no saint!

I look it at this way ---- do I really think that if I lived in Africa in the 1700s where every African tribe held slaves from other tribes, if they could, that I would have refused to be a friend with an African slave=holder - same question applies to the 1800s in the Western Hemisphere. I have friends who voted for Obama - who, in turn, voted for partial birth abortion - I pray for those friends, but they are my friends, and I pray that God forgives them their sins, their very significant sins.

McCain was pro-life and, while of course he was not an honest person, I think he would have been elected in Arizona if he was pro-choice. So there's that. That is an important positive entry in his ledger.

Sure the neocons had lots of bad ideas.... Look, I am sorry you are disappointed in McCain. As we grow older, we all need to realize that everyone disappoints everyone else, except people who are saints. Next time you are on a road trip, spend a little time with a Gideon's Bible ....

Michael Fitzgerald said...

Jeez, Steven Cooper, I was hoping you'd reply to my comments on Yaz. McCain is not worth the sentiment.

Michael Fitzgerald said...

"Disappointed in McCain".... Lulz. Try "despise".

stephen cooper said...

M. Fitzgerald - Sorry, I did not see your comments on Yaz .... I wish I had ... I will now try to google whatever you said . Sometimes I get tired of the negative comments from people who do not care so I do not check back on a comment thread, even when I have asked a question, even a non-rhetorical question, in a comment thread...

I worked with a former POW at KI Sawyer AFB for a couple years in the 80s (he was a tall guy - a B-52 pilot who you might remember from a famous picture from the last year of the war, a black and white picture of a tall pilot (or navigator) being paraded down the street by about 20 North Vietnamese communists - he was probably a first lieutenant at the time, he was an O-5 of some kind in the late 80s at K.I. Sawyer, maybe the guy in charge of FMS or maybe a guy in charge of one of the flying units, I don't remember - that was when I was an O-2....), and I met Admiral Stockdale at an event one day at the Pentagon, and that was the only time in my life I have met someone famous and been unable to pretend I did not know why the person was celebrated and famous - I told him "this is a really great honor to meet you", or something equally lame, and he said something polite. My gut feeling is that McCain was not trusted by lots of former POWs and was trusted by lots of former POWs, so I respectfully decline to have an opinion.








stephen cooper said...

"Despise" is a strong word. Just to stick to very famous historical figures who would have been old men when I was young, if they had lived to old age, and who I consider warmongers or just plain people who made despicable choices, I respect but despise people like Rommel, Truman, Roosevelt, but I know that my respect or lack of respect cannot likely mean much to them.

It is extremely unlikely that there ever will be an honest history of our times. There will never be a historian who will accurately record who was despicable and who was not. As I get older, I have less respect for some people who I used to think were just dumb - and who, in retrospect, I now think of as people who were not dumb at all but were consciously and gladly cold-hearted - but on the other hand I know I could be wrong ..... and also there are people I used to think were awfully selfish or narcissistic, and now I realize they were just scared and not very bright and not very capable of dealing with their ignorant loneliness, in a profound way that I never understood when I was younger, ... because (when I was younger) I always knew - as orphans and ugly young people often - and I was more or less both - as orphans and unloveable young people often know - that God loved me, and that God was not just an Imaginary Friend - I knew this because, even back then, I was not stupid, even if I looked stupid to people who did not know me. Poor Dante had to dream of seeing Heaven, I saw it.

Michael Fitzgerald said...

Somebody tweeted how "only the bitter and vicious" would disparage McCain at this time. Well I am nothing if not bitter and vicious. I appall polite society with my words and sentiments. Commenters here criticize my rhetoric and attitude. Some even call me a keyboard killer. I never served in the military, so I don't have that sense of fraternity with McCain. He showed a lot of guts in captivity and was heroic. My contempt for him stems from his post- military life in politics, where he has not been honorable. If the rumors are right, and I believe they are, that John McCain was a conspirator in the Steele dossier farce, then he'll be remembered by Americans in the same vein as another military hero turned traitor, Benedict Arnold.

Big Mike said...

Glenn Reynolds, contrasting the fawning coverage of McCain the deceased with McCain the 2008 presidential candidate, writes that “it’s as if they think the only good Republican is a dead Republican.” Yeah, I get that vibe loud and clear. And I am starting to feel much the same way about them.

Rusty said...

Well. The guy could take off and land on an aircraft carrier. At night. In the rain. So he had some kind of balls. I've met a couple of flyers that switched to multi engine when they couldn't hack that. I give him props for that. As to his politicl career? He's dead. Nothing I can say is going to make a difference.

Meade said...

"Of course, he does look like the wiry sort of guy you’d do well to avoid in a bar fight."

Axiomatic. It's not the size of the hard headed MAGA hat wearing dog in the fight, it's the size of the fight in the hard headed MAGA hat wearing dog.

readering said...

Trump can't stand up to the American Legion.