August 25, 2018
John McCain has died.
"John S. McCain, the proud naval aviator who climbed from depths of despair as a prisoner of war in Vietnam to pinnacles of power as a Republican congressman and senator from Arizona and a two-time contender for the presidency, died on Saturday at his home in Arizona. He was 81. According to a statement from his office, Mr. McCain died at 4:28 p.m. local time. He had suffered from a malignant brain tumor, called a glioblastoma, for which he had been treated periodically with radiation and chemotherapy since its discovery in 2017" (NYT).
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187 comments:
Let's remember a hero and forget the last political years
Love him or hate him, or both, so ends an era.
Give him props for fighting thst cancer for over a year at his age. He died hard. A tough man.
He leaves a lot behind, both good and bad, but his time at the Hanoi Hilton is part of the good and should never be forgotten.
What an amazing life.
If anybody is ever wondering if their life is worth living, think of John McCain's triumphs after his truly dark days.
I agreed with Trump that McCain was way too hawkish after 2000, but he was the last giant of the Senate.
I'll speak no ill of the dead. RIP. I voted for him. I'll say only it's too bad what he became.
I also hope Trump doesn't rub it in, but shows compassion. Not his forte.
Maybe now we can finally build the damn fence.
A big loss to all people who know the difference between right and wrong. Thank goodness for the courageous and principled stances he’s taken, especially the last couple of years.
I agreed with just about every single Democrat that McCain was way too hawkish after 2000, but with Dianne Feinstein he was among the last of the giants of the Senate.
John McCain abdicated his responsibilities to his constituents, to his party, and to the people of the United States in order to feed his own vindictive fit of pique. He might have been a great man. In the end, he was very small.
He lived a tumultuous life. I pray his passing was peaceful.
Thank you for your service. Condolences to family and friends.
A big loss to all people who know the difference between right and wrong.
Like Charles Keating?
Inga...Allie Oop: "A big loss to all people who know the difference between right and wrong."
The lefties literally called McCain Hitler and a fascist and a racist.
The made him look like a monster in their magazine covers.
In ingas defense, history began anew 15 minutes ago.
I just hope McCain was surrounded and comforted by his loved ones at the end.
Rip John McCain,
Yes I'm sure inga considered him a war monger and worse,
Just think how much better off the auS would be today if McCain had been elected Preston 2008 instead of Obama.
I hope his passing was painless and his family draws comfort in that fact.
I hope a conservative represents Arizona, starting now.
As a fellow Naval aviator and Skyhawk pilot, we had a common bond. I voted for him...mostly because he picked Palin as his running mate. Other than that, he was a giant pain in the ass. He could have been great, but like the professor who solved the Carmichael's Totient Conjectur yet bought the wrong insurance, McCain was almost great.
- Krumhorn
I expected final grandstanding.
Even as we speak, the lefties at The Onion are mocking McCains family.
Thats what McCain gets from the lefties for a lifetime of sucking up to them and attacling his own base voters.
RIP Mr. McCain.
I voted for him as well, and only have the best of thoughts for his family.
Rhhardin:I expected final grandstanding."
He did not have an opportunity to grandstand near the end. There is absolutely no doubt that if he could have stuck it to the republicans he would have.
And in the end, he disowned his choice of Palin, that devil on his shoulder mark Salter had a little to do with it, remember that gut churning roman a clef he churned out.
I love it that he went down swinging. Pugnacious!
What Tyrone Slothrop and Krumhorn said.
The media loved him when he opposed Republican measures or Republican presidents--they delighted in calling him a maverick--but not when he ran for president as a Republican. Unsurprisingly. I was never able to forgive him for the provisions of the McCain-Feingold law that curtailed political speech, since whatever gray areas there may be about the outer limits of the first amendment's application, the one sure thing is that it was meant to protect political speech. But all in all he was an honorable man and he lived an honorable life.
Did McCain give the lefties the well-deserved finger?
No.....No, he did not.
- Krumhorn
McCain-Feingold should now be repealed in his honor.
That was Salter, not McCain, with the potboiler tale which had a creepy fixation with obama.
I don’t know precisely how I feel. In 2008 he failed to assert any leadership when the crash occurred, and the despicable Harry Reid rolled him pretty easily. I can cut him some slack on being part of the Keating 5 because he was a newbie back then and he may have felt he was just doing constituent service. But in 2016 he ran hard on his opposition to Obamacare, but when push came to shove and the spotlight was on him, he flat chickened out. Nor did he have any call to insult Trump during the 2016 election campaign, and his characterization of Trump supporters as “crazies” was way beyond out of line. (Show of hands. How many remember that Trump’s insult about preferring fliers who don’t get shot down was in direct response to McCain calling Trump’s supporters “crazies”?)
And yet. With his death and Orrin Hatch’s retirement the Senate seems a diminished place.
In 2008, the nation had a choice between a true moderate, and a true partisan.
Senator John McCain was an aisle-crossing statesman of the Senate, with rich experience in hard bipartisan work. He had political scars, and had made some enemies among many, many admirers.
Senator Barack Obama was a pure partisan; he had done nothing in the Senate that wasn’t a carve-out I’d left-leaning Democrats. Obama had nothing in his political bank account other than his far-left partisan allies, and a brilliant media persona.
Anybody know anybody who voted for the hard-left partisan over McCain?
And contrary to ill-intended rumors he didn’t finish last in his Navy class. He was fifth from last. 894/899. And from graduation to the end he always received a public paycheck.
Goodbye Sailor. Give my respect to the Admiral.
"And contrary to ill-intended rumors he didn’t finish last in his Navy class. "
So what? My father was a mediocre law student, but had a huge impact as a practicing lawyer.
Frankly stopped caring after he made it past the June 1 special election deadline.
The most disgusting thing about this is all the people who years ago asked how I could support a Nazi like McCain will now pretend he was "one of the good ones."
Hopefully his family can find peace.
I voted for him, RIP. Ultimately he'll be remembered for choosing Palin, and that she was a real deal hottie.
Why anybody would want to spend their last years in Congress instead of with people who loved them, I do not know.
I think that is a very unusual decision. Who says “I want to spend more time at the office” when it all ends?
May he rest in peace.
It's called service. And sacrifice.
@Birkel
I wonder the same thing, these 70 and 80 year old rich politicians determined to hold their power. I'm 56, not nearly as wealthy, and I can't wait to retire, hopefully in the next 6 months. It speaks volumes about the ease and the payback of govt work?
The Songbird has stopped warbling.
Perhaps the people of Arizonia will finally be represented in the Senate by two Senators.
Nothing illustrated his life more than how he left it.
Petty, vindictive and small.
He will not be missed.
Of all the Hitlers, the Left loved him best.
He over burdened his entitlement as a son and grandson of USNavy Admirals . It was squandered by his anger and corrupt acts seeking wealth that he also felt entitled to as a GOP Senator. Not that there was anything wrong with that ... until Trump offered Americans a better deal.
Every generation needs its own George Armstrong Custer.
Rt1 Rebel:
I wish you great success in your retirement. I hope to work a good long while yet but am extraordinarily jealous of my private time.
I would need something monumental to overcome my need to be around family.
Good. I'll have some champagne to celebrate.
A dishonest man - who constantly talked of "Honor"
Maybe, he can have drink with Ted Chappaquiddick Kennedy.
In Hell.
It took death to get him out of Congress.
Death.
Senior citizens with brain cancer passing laws for 300+ million other people. What a joke.
I'm sorry McCain has died.
I'm sorry he didn't die 10 years ago.
A typical elite of the Ruling Class. All the comments about “honor” ring false with his decision to die in office. He lived like an entitled person and died like an entitled person. Hat tip to Therapy?.
https://youtu.be/faH90FOfeeU (Die Like a Motherfucker)
People die every day. And this one's not going to get any fawning praise it fake platitudes from me. AMF
Will the courrpt Rebublican establishment appoint his wife to the hereditary seat of the McCains?
Isn't that why he held on so long with his gnarled, withered, diseased hands?
Hard to say how I feel about McCain. He fought for my country in war and paid a huge price but in peace he was, well, more of an obstruction and very ungentlemanly in his conduct with others.
RIP.
Did it hurt? Fuck John McCain. Coward and liar.
I think McCain's imprisonment was probably the high point of his career. I can't think of anything he did in the Senate that actually was beneficial - nothing pops out and says "this defines him". Perhaps McCain - Feingold does because it does more harm than good on both sides of the aisle. Thinking about his hawkishness I wonder if he was right about foreign affairs any more than Joe Biden - which would be rarely. His run for the presidency was about as coherent as Hillary's and his willingness to sink the repeal of Obamacare out of personal pique after campaigning on repeal was, I thought, a good insight into his character. He should have resigned from the Senate when he knew he would no longer be able to function as a representative of his state. My general impression of McCain in politics is that he was much more concerned with his own ego gratification than he was providing service to the people. I am grateful for his service and sacrifices when he was a young man. I don't think that history will be kind about his later career.
I live in Arizona and have always liked and admired McCain. There is a famous story that most of AZ knows (but maybe not everyone here). When McCain got released from prison he puttered around for a bit, met Cindy, moved to Arizona (with which he had no real prior connection) and quickly decided to run for Congress. In a debate his challenger made the mistake of suggesting John was a carpetbagger of sorts, not a true Arizonan and running in a district that was not truly his home. Addressing the issue of his true home McCain (a Navy brat who had lived all over the world) stated that if home is defined as the place where one had spent the most years in the same place then his home was probably Hanoi. Reporters present said it was the most devastating debate response they had ever seen. It helped launch his career.
good news for the Dems. Now that seat will be back voting, so the red state senators (WV, MT, etc) can vote for kavanaugh for the Supreme Court (since their votes won't matter). They'll be able to tell their constituents:
"I vote my own mind, and Chuck Schumer said it was okay for me to say that!"
Certainly during this last part of his life McCain seemed to put the personal before duty and honor.
It is likely that Senator McCain suffered some cognitive impairment in his final years due to his brain cancer. As do others, I'd like to remember his heroism and his statesmanship and not his decline. He deserves that much.
Funny how McCain's popularity in the media only is high when he is fighting with a Republican President. The Onion making fun of him and his family is them not even being able to fake it.
[Verse 1]
Talking to the songbird yesterday
Flew me to a place not far away
She's a little pilot in my mind
Singing songs of love to pass the time
Going to write a song so she can see
Give her all the love she gives to me
Talk of better days that have yet to come
Never felt this love from anyone
She's not anyone
She's not anyone
She's not anyone
A man can never dream these kinds of things
Especially when she came and spread her wings
Whispered in my ear the things I'd like
Then she flew away into the night
Going to write a song so she can see
Give her all the love she gives to me
Talk of better days that have yet to come
Never felt this love from anyone
She's not anyone
She's not anyone
She's not anyone
(Songbird, Oasis)
A man's man like Senator McCain would not have wanted me to feel sorry for him at his passing. As America comes together in this moment of national mourning I will respect his wishes.
may God rest his soul
You mean when left his wife who had stood by him, after a debilitating accident to 'trade' up' for a beer heiress,
Yes I recall back to 2008, the scare tactic was he wouldn't live long, they used the fact that his father and grandfather had only made it to around 70
Comments are hitting my buttons. Like Fat Boy Kennedy I never wanted to see them dead. Just out of Congress. Or in the case of RBG or Breyer, off the court.
Thanks Birkel. On the same side of the coin is Trump and Hillary. Two people that have left their mark and made their legacy well into old age. What is the reward in continuing a political career for these two? Hillary ends up dejected and bitter, Trump ends up opening himself, his family, and everyone around him to jail time. Me? I just hate what I do, and I don't want to do it any more, I'll be happy to work part time in a liquor store or a local beach shop if I need the extra money or the activity and social interaction.
I think The Onion joke is funny. Can’t figure how why people are mad about it. Reminds me of the Babylon Bee.
We left 50,000 men in Vietnam. And they were better than Johnny McCain.
They didn't get to spend 45 years riding the "I'm a War Hero" magic carpet to fame and fortune. McCain died at 81 - and his life since 1973 has been all gravy.
War Hero? There were thousands of GI's who were bigger Heroes. He got shot down. And didn't jump the POW line. That's it.
Its not like he threw himself on a hand grenade. Or went out under fire to rescue a wounded soldier. Or lost an arm or a leg. But you never hear about those guys.
Just Johnny McCain. The War hero.
No, I think trump feels the burden of not disappointing those who voted for him, with Hillary I think it's about her mostly.
I really liked McCain in 2000, voted for him in the primary. Was deeply skeptical of then-Governor Bush.
But since then, he seemed to founder. His 2008 campaign against Obama was passive and horrid. His thwarting of the Obamacare repeal was not good either.
On the whole, though, flaws and all, he lived an adventurous life, a modern day hero. So, I can only wish him, Godspeed.
may God rest his soul
There is one good thing about him moving to Arizonia to run for Congress.
When you consider where he is going he will be used to the heat.
McCain's epitaph:
The Louder he talked of honor, the faster we counted our spoons.
on an earlier thread;
HT said...
Yes, RIP, John McCain. I wonder how long it'd been since he gave up treatment. It's weird that the day after that was announced, he died.
I figure that the 'treatment' that he gave up was life support. He's been gone for some time
I think it would be in keeping with our corrupt Ruling Class if Flake resigns his seat tomorrow and gets appointed to McCain’s seat on Monday.
I saw reporting that Ross Perot paid medical bills for Mrs McCain #1.
Did Senator McCain pay back?
Not honorable if he didn't.
What's this fetish for honoring the uniform while the wearer's character is evident otherwise
Rt1 Rebel,
That reads like a life worth living!
Working until your last, amongst the snakes and vultures in DC sounds... Deplorable!
John McCain's mother still alive! (106!!)
I've found that McCain fans usually fall into three groups:
- People who don't know much about him or don't care about politics
- Liberals/Democrats - he was their "favorite Republican"
- Neo-cons, Open borders Greedheads, and warmongers.
So I'm watching a ball game on CBS. I'm 15 minutes behind real time with the DVR. A breaking news babe interrupts with a brief announcement of McCain's death.
Half hour later, another break-in and this time it's longer, with film clips. I fast-forward through but noticed Trump on screen and wanted to see how he handled it, so I rewound, rewatched and found that the Trump clip wasn't a statement of sympathy from the White House but was that old clip of him stupidly saying that he liked heroes who didn't get captured.
This is what CBS chose to show it's audience in announcing a death - a disgusting and blatantly political decision.
Tomorrow they'll be preaching about the horrible conservatives who are disrespecting McCain and playing politics with his death.
Fucking bastards.
gspencer said: "Like Fat Boy Kennedy I never wanted to see them dead. Just out of Congress. Or in the case of RBG or Breyer, off the court."
You have swerved into it. It's the only way these clowns leave their public service *cough* positions. Feet first.
”Will the courrpt Rebublican establishment appoint his wife to the hereditary seat of the McCains?”
I’m hoping that whatever promises were made, with McCain actually dead the governor won’t feel compelled to appoint her.
BTW, I have no idea why the McCain family announced he was giving up treatment.
We've known for a year he had terminal cancer.
I guess they wanted two rounds of insincere eulogies.
Now, comes the Funeral - and the fawning MSM Coverage - for the greatest Republican who ever lived!
"He was a Maverick. He was a WAR HERO. Who hated Trump and loved St. Ted of Chappaquiddick, and didn't care what those racist conservatives thought. He thought only of the Country (and the New York Times) and was the role model for future Republican Senators and Presidents. etc. etc."
All the MSM eulogies will include some type of disparagement of Trump.
Can AZ Governor appoint Mrs McCain #1 and call that Senator's last wish or whatever.
I'm Just looking for more drama.
Trump was speaking of McCain's vanity, in the old clip.
"gilbar said...
on an earlier thread;
HT said...
Yes, RIP, John McCain. I wonder how long it'd been since he gave up treatment. It's weird that the day after that was announced, he died.
I figure that the 'treatment' that he gave up was life support. He's been gone for some time
________
Probably correct, thanks. That whole thing still strikes me as weird.
Maybe like JKF they can put up a temporary eternal flame for him.
I am sure the Never Trumpers think it's only right that a liberal Democrat be appointed in his place.
"So, I can only wish him, Godspeed."
You can do more than that. Buy a portrait of him on Amazon using the Althouse. portal.
https://www.amazon.com/iCanvasART-Mccain-Portrait-Canvas-Print/dp/B073X7B2DF/ref=sr_1_6?ie=UTF8&qid=1535250078&sr=8-6&keywords=portrait+of+john+mccain
Our long national nightmare is over.
R.I.P. John.
"Our long national nightmare is over."
Not just yet.
I am confident Trumpit is deranged.
Anybody check that link?
McCain disinvited Trump from his funeral.
How goes protocol when he lies in State in Rotunda?
If French can have wife and mistress at funeral. Can McCain have two wives at his?
What is his legislative legacy? The first thing that comes to mind is the dangerous McCain-Feingold law.
All the whiny Dems yelling about Trumps treatment of McCain treated him like shit from 2008 through 2016.
Rest in peace, Senator McCain. I thank you for your service to our country in the Navy and as a public servant as well as your sacrifice for your time spent at the Hanoi Hilton. As for the snarky remarks about him finishing near the bottom of his Naval Academy class, I want to remind people that the military academies in this country have some of the highest admission standards of colleges/universities in the United States. I am sure people think he got in as a “legacy” but I think he would have been rejected if he wasn’t qualified. My cousin didn’t make the cut for West Point despite being well qualified academically - he went to college, joined ROTC, was commissioned upon graduation, and recently retired as a Lt. Colonel. And another thing - John McCain not only earned his wings as a pilot, but as a carrier qualified pilot. I don’t think the average bottom of the class at a public university student could have done that, let alone a “genius” Ivy League student such as Barack Obama or Bill Clinton could have accomplished that.
I expect a rerun of Wellstone's funeral.
RIP John McCain.
His mother is still alive at 106. What a tragedy for her to live through his passing.
One of our dear friends died young from a brain tumor. The end can come very fast. His wife announced he had moved into hospice care. People in town could give their final good-byes. Less then a week later he was dead. We were shocked. A month prior he was talking and fighting the cancer.
Discontinuing care, for our friend, meant moving into hospice care. It's a signal to friends and family that death is coming quickly & to say goodbyes.
I was at a McSally reception when the death was announced.
A moment of silence. Not a hell of a lot of sorrow as he was well past his "sell by" date.
I just hope Ducey doesn't appoint Cindy. Maybe he'll appoint the loser of the primary.
Martha is almost certain to win.
Moving on, Arizona needs to seat a new Senator. Kavanaugh nomination should be the focus going forward. I didn't forget about the New York Times running a front page story alleging an affair by McCain during the election, but I'm sure all of the lefties who called him Hitler in 2008 but kiss his ass now if they think it can hurt Trump will.
Is Ginsberg the same age?
Discontinuing care, for our friend, meant moving into hospice care. It's a signal to friends and family that death is coming quickly & to say goodbyes.
When Hospice was first approved for Medicare,. some of the hospices got into trouble because the rule was the patient was supposed to die in 6 months.
Not all did and the CMS, then the HCFA, decided that the hospices were cheating.
It didn't occur to them that supportive care might actually extend life.
If only RBG would have the stones to give into The Vast Unknown.
We could celebrate them both, Lying. In. State.
tcrosse said...
I expect a rerun of Wellstone's funeral
Which party? Uni/NeverTrump?
What are you doing here?
I'm on my way to Congressman Cowgill's funeral.
Oh, right. Poor Rick Cowgill. God, he was a four-foot- 11-inch stick of dynamite. A great man inside a small man.
- Veep sent to attend funeral
Not a lot of people are left who knew Admiral Halsey - McCain shared a drink with him, back in the day.
You might think that is not important, and you might be right. Nevertheless, it is important. As for me, I never shared a drink with Admiral Halsey, and McCain, who is not much older than me, and who did something I am not sure I could have done (for God's sake, the man refused a get out of jail card when he was a POW - are you sure you could have done as much, with years of imprisonment ahead of you?) , shared a drink with Admiral Halsey (whiskey and water, by the way).
Michael K - thanks for reminding me that, in this world, there are many bureaucrats who just do not care.
Well we will all die some day. McCain could have been the greatest president of his generation. I know why he wasn't - but years from now, nobody will care why he was not, and they will only remember his bravery and his love, in his youth, for the country that gave him so much, and the country that he gave so much to, in return.
”I didn't forget about the New York Times running a front page story alleging an affair by McCain during the election,”
Yeah, that was despicable. It floors me that some people actually believe we have an honest press.
John McCain’s imprisonment in Hanoi put him at one extreme in American life: the soldier who would not bow to his captors. He had an untamed spirit that served him and us well, but it contained an element of insubordination that caused him to punch his friends in the nose while his enemies cheered him on. In time, he grew to like their cheers. He was a great man who was an erratic leader because he confused the cheers of his enemies as applause for his virtues. RIP.
I would hate to be invited to McCain's funeral.
Imagine having to sit there and listen to all the fake, phony, eulogies for someone you despised.
And maintain a straight face.
I'm sure Trump feels the same way.
What will the press do with the fact McCain's 2008 campaign manager and long-time henchman is one half of Davis, Manafort? Yes, that Manafort.
Truman was a WW 1 hero - bur rarely talked about it.
Goldwater, Wallace and McGovern were WW2 heroes and rarely talked about it.
Dole rarely talked about his WW2 service until 1996.
But McCain - man he NEVER shut up about his heroism. 45 years of being "The War Hero"
Damn. He never got tired of playing *that* part.
John McCain always reminded me of that other famous POW.
Colonel Robert Hogan.
McCain's grandfather was the hero of the family.
Slew McCain was a great carrier admiral and a pioneer in carrier aviation.
McCain was a pioneer of aircraft carrier operations[1] who in 1942 commanded all land-based air operations in support of the Guadalcanal campaign, and who ultimately in 1944–1945 aggressively led the Fast Carrier Task Force, in the Pacific Ocean theater of World War II. His operations off the Philippines and Okinawa, and air strikes against Formosa and the Japanese home islands, caused tremendous destruction of Japanese naval and air forces in the closing period of the war.[2] He died four days after the formal Japanese surrender ceremony.
He took the blame for Halsey's error in getting the fleet into the typhoon that is called Halsey's Typhoon.
The first typhoon, informally named “Cobra,” hit on December 16, 1944, as the U.S. Navy’s Third Fleet, commanded by Admiral William F. “Bull” Halsey, headed east into the open Pacific to refuel and transfer supplies from tankers and cargo ships to the fleet’s aircraft carriers, battleships, cruisers, and destroyers out of range of the Japanese airplanes based in the Philippines, including Kamikazes. The fleet had been supporting the successful U.S. invasion of the Philippines.
As Dr. Bob Sheets and I write in our 2001 book, Hurricane Watch, “…nothing worked out; every move that Halsey made over the next two days seemed to be the wrong one.
Halsey lost ships and McCain took the blame because the Navy thought Halsey was too important a PR figure.
During the next 24 hours Halsey ordered other course changes that sent “many of the ships into the core of the typhoon, with sixty-foot waves and sustained winds estimated at higher than 145 miles per hour.”
McCain was sent home in disgrace and not allowed to attend the surrender ceremony. He died two days after arriving in Coronado.
It was a gross injustice. Halsey nearly had the landing at Leyte annihilated by his reckless "Bull's Run" to attack the decoy fleet of empty Japanese carriers. His reputation was saved by the courage and deaths of Taffy Three.
Halsey is famous and a hero and McCain Sr is unknown except to naval historians.
The grandson was much less of a hero.
How soon we forget that McCain's parting gift to USA is Steele Dossier.
Maybe some one will remember to quote from it
And history begins in 15 minutes.
I have great respect for the soldier John McCain.
I have no respect at all for the politician John McCain.
If that's what American politics can do to one man, it's very telling.
Hands across the water!
Let me ask the question:
What did he dread so much that he preferred Hanoi Hilton to being outside and helping his country.
Is it not the duty of POW to take any chance for escape?
Speaking of The New York Times, how did they know that they were publishing the opinion of John McCain when they ran Op-Ed pieces under his name in the months preceding his death? He hadn't been seen in public in a long time and was undergoing extremely difficult treatment for one of the most debilitating forms of cancer possible. Maybe when the smoke clears a bit - someone can ask the Times what they did to authenticate his authorship of these pieces.
"His mother is still alive at 106."
If you live to 106, it's pretty likely you'll outlive some of your grandchildren. Blessing or curse?
His monument at his Naval Academy gravesite should feature the number 894 prominently. From now on every new cadet should be marched to see it and reminded that from top to bottom of their class, if they graduate, they’re special.
"Senator John McCain was an aisle-crossing statesman of the Senate, with rich experience in hard bipartisan work"
But you know, rationalizers like Althouse rationalized that O was the more "pragmatic" choice.
That kind of "reasoning" is what American parties and American candidates have to deal with.
Besides insufferable vanity and arrogance, McCain's fault as a politician was not to understand that.
Trump does.
Has anyone said empty vessel yet ...
https://personalexcellence.co/blog/empty-vessels/
Add amplifier effect of MSM = John McCain III
FTR: John S. ( Slew) McCain, Sr. was the man that single handedly reversed the Navy's plan to surrender the First Marines who had been abandoned on Guadalcanal. He did that by reporting the successes of the Cactus Airforce pilots that he had installed to Ghormley, Nimitz, King and FDR. They finally followed McCain's plan and the Japanese proceeded to waste their Army, Navy and Airforce in a 4 month battle to the death with the Marines and US Navy. That reversal was the turning point in the Pacific War, not Midway.
Andrew Sullivan called him “gobsmackingly vile.” Lest we forget how he was treated by the left in life.
Michael K - I respectfully disagree with you about Halsey.
The man knew what it took to win a series of naval battles. He was the best man for the job (the job being to be a fleet commander whose task was to destroy the enemy and to help win the war as quickly as possible, with as little loss on our side as possible). Slew McCain was a good admiral too, but his grandson did something Slew McCain never did ... showed loyalty to his fellow soldiers to a degree Slew McCain may or may not have shown .....
The mistakes Halsey made in bad weather - there is a 50-50 chance I would have made them too. Nimitz, as a young naval lieutenant, grounded an expensive warship into Filipino mud and nobody criticizes him. Admiral King, God bless his heart, was, frankly, almost insanely crabby, and nobody criticizes him for his constant anger. And Admiral Leahy, the other 5 star Navy Admiral from back in the day, was right about so many things, but he was not virtuous enough to tell Roosevelt what Roosevelt needed to hear from Admiral Leahy.
He was a good man, and I'm glad I had a chance to vote for him.
Is it not the duty of POW to take any chance for escape?
They are supposed to accept release only in the order they were captured. That way there's no doubt treason was not involved.
Requiescat in pace.
Stephen Cooper said:Halsey...
The man knew what it took to win a series of naval battles. He was the best man for the job (the job being to be a fleet commander whose task was to destroy the enemy and to help win the war as quickly as possible, with as little loss on our side as possible
Soooooo, 'what it took' to win, was to take the american 3rd fleet (with all the modern battleships and carriers) AWAY from the action on a Wild Goose Chase for Glory; leaving the ENTIRE american invasion force protected by 3 destroyers, 4 escort destroyers and 6 SMALL escort carriers... WHILE IT WAS ATTACKED, by 4 Battleships, 6 Heavy Cruisers, 2 Light Cruisers, and 11 Destroyers (that's right! the Japanese fleets sub protection outgunned the ENTIRE remaining us fleet (after Halsey's 3rd fleet RAN AWAY).
You have a VERY weird idea of 'what it took' to win.
If you are impressed with Halsey, read about Samar
sorry, i should have added radio transcripts:
At 0822, Kinkaid radioed, "Fast Battleships are Urgently Needed Immediately at Leyte Gulf".
At 0905: "Need Fast Battleships and Air Support".
At 09:07, Kinkaid broadcast what was up against: "4 Battleships, 8 Cruisers Attack Our Escort Carriers
And, of course; Finally:
TURKEY TROTS TO WATER GG FROM CINCPAC ACTION COM THIRD FLEET INFO COMINCH CTF SEVENTY-SEVEN X WHERE IS RPT WHERE IS TASK FORCE THIRTY FOUR RR THE WORLD WONDERS
Do we know if the Japanese planned the Leyte deception specifically because they knew Halsey was in command to take the bait, or was it just their good luck?
It was just good luck.
Halsey performed badly at Leyte. But he saved the situation at Guadalcanal and was largely responsible for what turned out to be a decisive strategic victory -- THE turning point in the Pacific War.
Ghormley's tenure in command at Guadalcanal was nearly disastrous. Ghormley was simply not up to the job. Catastrophic defeat was looming when Nimitz sacked Ghormley and replaced him with Halsey. Halsey turned the situation around, pulling victory out of the jaws of defeat. He won the most consequential victory of the Pacific War and one of the most important victories in the history of American military endeavor.
McCain was quite a fellow. I really enjoyed his book, "Faith of My Fathers" and drilling into his performance in the USS Forrestal fire in July 67. Lots of people cite is behavior in Hanoi, but forget he was a double volunteer for Vietnam. He volunteered for a tour on the Forrestal. McCain was strapped into an A-4 bomber carrying a fuel drop tank and 2 1,000 lb bombs when a rocket was triggered on another jet behind him that struck McCain's A-4, splitting the external fuel tank and dropping both bombs into a lake of burning fuel.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U6NnfRT_OZA
min 3:30
Engulfed in flames, McCain unstraps, climbs out of the cockpit, walks out the nose of the plane, then does a diving roll through the flames to the deck.
bombs begin to cook off, I think the losses were 134 men. McCain, wounded by the explosions turned around and volunteered again to be transferred to the Oriskany which was headed to Vietnam. He was shot down in Oct 67.
RIP
"His wife announced he had moved into hospice care. People in town could give their final good-byes. Less then a week later he was dead. We were shocked. A month prior he was talking and fighting the cancer."
I have seen this three times now in the last 10 years- my maternal grandparents and my father. It probably means that the patient has stopped eating and drinking. Hospice specifically does not hydrate with IVs or feed with tubes. All three of my relatives died within 10 days of starting hospice, and they all died from the dehydration.
As I wrote in the previous thread- I voted quite happily in 2000 for McCain in the primaries. I did not vote for him in the 2008 primaries, but would have voted for him in the general election had the outcome not been a foregone conclusion by election day. However, I am now glad he was never president. As bad as I thought Bush and Obama were, I think McCain would have been far worse.
McCain is the only presidential candidate I have ever personally met and talked to, though this was years before he actually ran in the general election.
@ Ralph L
How did that convention come about?
Is it part of the behavior code ?
Thank GOD at last!
Who will be the next grandstander yanked from the stage?
Grahmnasty is not that old...
Ben Sasse off to obscurity?
Suppose that a pilot (also spy) crashed and captured to misinformation to enemy.
Will this convention apply?
In any case isn't the senior officer POW to decide?
McCain could have been a "real hero" like people have called him. When given six months to live, he could have taken some anti-Christs with him. We know who they are; it's no secret who imperils the Republic. Instead he ruffled no feathers, made no waves. Goodbye coward. You'll soon be forgotten.
Thank you, The Drill SGT; thank you, sir, for posting that here.
GRW3 said...
His monument at his Naval Academy gravesite should feature the number 894 prominently. From now on every new cadet should be marched to see it and reminded that from top to bottom of their class, if they graduate, they’re special
Small but important point- Navy has Midshipmen, not cadets. And better examples would be:
Amon Bronson was anchorman of 1896. His first assignment after graduation was aboard the USS Maine, and he was asleep in his bunk on February 15, 1898 when the ship blew up in Havana Harbor. Bronson survived, and went on to command the U.S.S. Denver and U.S.S. St. Louis during World War I. For his service he was awarded the Navy Cross. Amon’s friend and frequent partner in misbehavior at Annapolis was Henry Mustin, who graduated one slot above Bronson. Henry earned 12 varsity letters at the Naval Academy, a record at the time, and was decorated for bravery in the Philippine insurrection. Most notably he was the first man to fly an aircraft catapulted from a ship at sea. He established the Naval Aeronautic Station at Pensacola and commanded the first naval air squadron. Henry Mustin was not only the Father of Naval Aviation but also the patriarch of a Navy family tradition which has continued through four generations to the present day.
Quoted from https://www.nationalreview.com/2008/09/anchormen-james-s-robbins/
@Trumpit: Cheeseburger, cheeseburger, cheesburger!
Why is the number 894 important in relation to John McCan?
Is that the number of planes he crashed that his father covered up or the number of grunts who died trying to find him when he dumped his plane in the jungle?
Since WW2 what is it about navy men in politics? JFK, LBJ, RN, Ford, Carter, HW, Kerry, McCain...?
So McCain will be buried at the naval academy next to a classmate and close friend who died a few years ago.
I'm a sucker for these details.
So folks who live online hate McCain while those who knew him in the flesh loved and admired him.
I didn't know him but relatives from Phoenix who did know him and Cindy were very close.
Andrew Ferguson wrote this about McCain and his favorite poet (Robert Service), during the 2000 campaign: https://www.weeklystandard.com/andrew-ferguson/reagan-mccain-and-sam-mcgee
The Left has used McCain as a club against Republicans for 30 years. Since he got caught in Abscam, he has been their boy any time they needed a critique of a Republican...and he only got worse with age.
It was with a certain sick satisfaction that the people who LOVED to put him in front of a camera and laud his name, when he ran for political office, did worse things to him than happened in the Hanoi Hilton. Imagine the sense of betrayal. "But...we used to drink together! You called me a HERO after I got finished giving Bush a swirlie for the last 8 years. How can you call me HITLER now? How can you accuse me of having an AFFAIR when you KNOW it isn't true?"
This would make even a great man bitter. And I am not sure that McCain is a great man.
You can either die a hero or live long enough to become a villain.
I don't have a problem with legitimate criticism. But McCain essentially was 100% against his own party...for his own self promotion.
I will note this: The man has been a Senator from 1987 to today.
Senators make 174,000 per year today.
Even if he saved EVERY penny, his net worth should be $5.5 million dollars.
His net worth is $21 million dollars.
Granted, compared to the Borias of the Ozarks, he is a circus grifter in comparison.
He has not been a Republican ally for decades.
Very readable Jim Newell tribute to McCain in Slate (not as good as the Ferguson piece, though). There is going to be so much written about this man in the coming days.
A nice respite from the moral midget sleeping alone at a NJ golf club.
In any case isn't the senior officer POW to decide?
It is part of the code, but a young enlisted(?) man was ordered to take the offered early release after memorizing the names of the known prisoners. It was in the movie Hanoi Hilton.
Henry Mustin's grandson relieved my father as CO of a minehunter when he was 3 years out of USNA (for comparison, my father had been 6 years out). He became a 3 star Admiral, and his youngest son was selected for flag rank right before he died last year. The middle son was in my HS class, and my sister follows him on Facebook.
He took ** so long ** to snuff it
What if Ruth Buzzi Ginsberg goes tits up in the next few months?
Oh, why is the clock so slow...
If only Heathers had been made in the Senate
Was LBJ in the Navy?
buried at the naval academy next to a classmate and close friend
Guessing it was Admiral Larson, Super. of USNA twice, brought out of retirement after a big cheating scandal. McCain's mother was at a memorial dedication for him.
FIDO, it was the Keating Five. Abscam caught Representatives. Too many scandals to keep straight, but the real scandal is what's unreported and legal.
TR and FDR had been Ass. Sec. of the Navy.
> If only Heathers had been made in the Senate
McCain would be one of those two jocks who followed Wino Ryder into the woods and whose Dad cried for his dead gay son: sending a message via the carefully outlined text...
"Eskimo"
Andrew Shimmin's link above Reagan, McCain, and Sam McGee is Andrew Ferguson at his best.
Ralph L said...Was LBJ in the Navy?
Sort of. During WW II, while he was a sitting US Representative, he wangled a Navy Reserve commission as a Lieutenant Commander. FDR sent him to the South Pacific to report on Navy operations. While there, he rode as an observer on a night bombing mission. Macarthur even "awarded" him the Silver Star for this "display of courage".
Then FDR cracked down and ordered all elected officials to resign any military commissions. (LBJ wasn't the only one playing this game.) LBJ's Navy "career" lasted about seven months.
Presidential trivium: Kennedy was the first Catholic President; he was also the first ex-Navy President, and all four of his successors were also ex-Navy.
@RalphL
My Q then is : who decides go or no go on early release offered? The offeree(?) Or the POW senior officer?
FIDO said... But McCain essentially was 100% against his own party...
McCain had a lifetime rating of 81 from the American Conservative Union; the highest current Democrat Senator has a rating of 30.
He wasn't reliable, but he wasn't bad.
McCains legacy may be the impeachment circus on its way to town.
He birthed McCain-Feingold to make up for being the 5th “Keating”. There was no way a moral leader like him was corrupt: the only way to save our weak leaders was to “get the money out of politics” by putting those same leaders in charge of political speech.
Thanks to "Maverick" spending your own money through an agent to buy your peace with a one night stand maybe an unreported campaign expenditure.
He was a great American, not a great Senator.
McCain had a lifetime rating of 81 from the American Conservative Union; the highest current Democrat Senator has a rating of 30.
He wasn't reliable, but he wasn't bad.
For me, this sort of makes it worse.
McCain was and will continue to be a club the Left uses against the Right. His pen voted Republican but his mouth voted Democrat.
Wow.
Well, FIDO, how is that not your fault, that clubbing being available? From my point of view, that IS your fault.
Is only 100% acceptable?
Does that go for everyone?
Does that go for yourself?
Does that go for each and every one of the individual people in the generations a-follow?
Are you saying: ONE way and ONE way only?
Hitler McCain had made plans for his funeral, including invitations to Hitler Bush and Marx Obama to deliver tributes. There was, however, extreme hostility between Hitler Trump and Hitler McCain, so it is doubtful the president will attend the services.
he was a sitting US Representative, he wangled a Navy Reserve commission
This sounds like the loose-lipped, weasel officer (Commander Neal Owynn) in "In Harm's Way" that Rock's son briefly idolized. It would be funny if the writers had LBJ in mind.
Well, FIDO, how is that not your fault, that clubbing being available? From my point of view, that IS your fault.
Well, in a monochromatic world enjoyed by the Left, there is no such thing as Nuance.
Republican positions have ALWAYS had a point. They are not 100% wrong...nor are they 100% correct. However, not if you listened to McCain. He'd get this itch in his ego and he'd go find a Washington reporter to rub it. The price was he had to simplistically slur a Republican position.
So I am accusing him of quite a bit of dishonesty, and seeing his voting record, hypocrisy.
Now if it were Obama or Clinton, dishonesty and hypocrisy is sort of baked in, like Trump and Pantless Bill with hookers.
But if one is 'the Maverick Speaking the Truth to Power', no...dishonesty and hypocrisy is NOT baked in.
So riddle me this: Who is the Democratic McCain? Is your side so 100% correct that there is no one of integrity and honesty to call the Left out on IT'S bullshit?
Cause I don't recall even one in the last 30 years. Last time I heard any Democrat admit they were incorrect or overreached was Billie Boy Bob Clinton after he got his pants beaten off of him (and not in the good way) when he raised taxes too high and lost control of Congress.
Word has it that Arizona will flip red this November.
A true "maverick" would have tried "the path" Steve Jobs, Steve McQueen, Corretta Scott King, Farrah Fawcett, and the other NewAge I'm-gonna-show-'em-all stars went down: Woman Dies After Trusting “Black Salve” Fake Cancer Cure Over Real Medicine John McCain, dying with dignity, really set a baaaad example for everybody.
Go broke when you die - and enrich a charlatan over your family - that's the NewAge way!!!
Old Age killed a maverick who told a lot of lies every six years.
Let’s all talk about who else is likely to go, soon.
Old Age.
Unknown said...
McCains legacy may be the impeachment circus on its way to town.
He birthed McCain-Feingold to make up for being the 5th “Keating”. There was no way a moral leader like him was corrupt: the only way to save our weak leaders was to “get the money out of politics” by putting those same leaders in charge of political speech.
Thanks to "Maverick" spending your own money through an agent to buy your peace with a one night stand maybe an unreported campaign expenditure.
Like Mitch McConnell and many other Republicans, I opposed McCain-Feingold. And I cheered the decisions in Citizens United v FEC and SpeechNow.org v FEC.
You are suggesting to Althouse readers that Michael Cohen has been indicted on provisions of federal election law that came into the U.S. Code via McCain-Feingold.
That's wrong. You're wrong.
Cohen is accused of having violated basic personal donation limits (Count VI) and corporate limits (Count VII). All of which were legal constraints pre-dating McCain-Feingold. Nothing to do with any law that was newly-enacted with McCain-Feingold.
Even if he saved EVERY penny, his net worth should be $5.5 million dollars.
His net worth is $21 million dollars.
Your point?
His second wife, Cindy, came from a wealthy family. Beer as I recall. The pre-nup ran the other way.
**Just above, I wrote that Michael Cohen had been "indicted." Technically, the charges are in an information, to which he has already pled guilty. It's possible that there was a sealed indictment of Cohen, passed out of a federal grand jury in New York City. But I wanted to be clear about that. I have not seen an indictment.
Maybe a larger indictment will be coming, and it may not have been drafted as yet, because a new indictment might include more co-conspirators, or unindicted co-conspirators.
Chuck, fopdoodle extraordinaire, cannot wait for the person he lies about voting for to be removed from office.
John McCain was about one thing, and one thing only: John McCain.
Anybody know anybody who voted for the hard-left partisan over McCain?
2008 was the only time I left the top of my ballot blank.
Next.
John McCain's history shows a man of good and bad deeds. He became a war hero in captivity and found an image for his life after failing to take his education and training at Annapolis seriously. He believed in America implicitly while misunderstanding the forces attempting to fundamentally change the country's laws and Constitution for the worse. He was a good family man in a long-term marriage but only after walking away from his first wife and 3 children who waited and prayed for him to return from captivity. He extolled the virtues of America but sponsored the Democrats' favorite campaign finance policy which put into law a permanent financing advantage for Democrats (law didn't touch union contributions). He was compassionate but steadfastly supported the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan at a very high cost in blood and treasure. He was congenial but quick to anger and held a grudge. He was a Republican but passed along the salacious and unverified Trump Dossier to the FBI thereby encouraging the turmoil of investigation that continues today over a baseless set of accusations. He campaigned as a staunch conservative on issues like immigration reform/border security and Obamacare and then voted otherwise. RIP.
Jim at said...
Anybody know anybody who voted for the hard-left partisan over McCain?
2008 was the only time I left the top of my ballot blank.
Next.
So what will you say, if in 2020, in an election between, say Cory Booker (or Kamala Harris or Eric Garcetti or Bernie Sanders or Kirsten Gillibrand) and Donald Trump, I left the top of my ballot blank?
I'll bet that I hate Trump much more than you hated McCain.
But here in Michigan, where it appears that the Trump coalition of electoral votes is most fragile, my vote might mean something. And the choice of Trump or one of those far-left extremists is pretty stark. My passing on a vote for Trump might well be as important as any single person's vote in the entire country.
See, I will never understand someone like you who would not support a John McCain versus a partisan lefty like Obama. I will never understand people who passed on supporting McCain or Romney, but who then whined about Obama. Just as I will never understand anybody who voted for Obama-and-then-Trump.
See, I will never understand someone like you who would not support a John McCain versus a partisan lefty like Obama.
1. My presidential vote doesn't count in a shithead state like Washington.
2. I am under no obligation to vote for anyone.
John McCain spent his entire political career kicking people like me in the teeth. And then when it came time for him to need my vote? Nope. Fuck that.
Yeah. You hate Trump. We get it. We all get it. But unlike McCain, Trump never shit all over you as a US Senator.
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