August 15, 2018

"I’m riddled with shame. White shame.... I feel like there is no 'me' outside of my white/upper middle class/cisgender identity."

"I feel like my literal existence hurts people, like I’m always taking up space that should belong to someone else. I consider myself an ally. I research proper etiquette, read writers of color, vote in a way that will not harm P.O.C. (and other vulnerable people). I engage in conversations about privilege with other white people. I take courses that will further educate me. I donated to Black Lives Matter. Yet I fear that nothing is enough. Part of my fear comes from the fact that privilege is invisible to itself. What if I’m doing or saying insensitive things without realizing it?"

From an apparently serious question by "Whitey" to "The Sugars," who write a "radically empathic advice column" at the NYT.

To summarize the advice given to this woeful man:
You’re not going to empower others by disempowering yourself.... Seek out the causes and classes and candidates that speak to your vision of America — one in which the lives of the disenfranchised matter more than white people’s feelings...
Which sounds suspiciously like: Vote for the right party and you are absolved. That's from the male "Sugar," Steve Almond. From the female half of the team, Cheryl Strayed:
[P]art of learning how to [relinquish your privilege] is accepting that feelings of shame, anger and the sense that people are perceiving you in ways that you believe aren’t accurate or fair are part of the process that you and I and all white people must endure in order to dismantle a toxic system that has perpetuated white supremacy for centuries. 
In other words, you should feel bad.

So it sounds as though "Whitey" is right where he needs to be. He feels ashamed of himself. Good. And then he just needs to vote for Democrats. That's how I read it.

ADDED: I wrote "this woeful man," but as Rick says in the comments "Nothing in the letter indicates this is a man." Isn't it strange that this person who stresses identity — "there is no 'me' outside of my white/upper middle class/cisgender identity" — has avoided leaving any trace of whether he/she is male or female? That's the most identifying identity of all, and yet it's eradicated from this weird letter. So is this letter for real? David Begley writes, "Fake letter published by the Fake News."

230 comments:

1 – 200 of 230   Newer›   Newest»
mezzrow said...

Somehow, I don't think this plays like this in Peoria or Youngstown.

David Begley said...

1. Fake letter published by the Fake News.

2. My advice? Just kill yourself Whitey and make room for the more deserving POC.

Rick said...

To summarize the advice given to this woeful man:

Nothing in the letter indicates this is a man.

Michael said...

I am very opposed to suicide but there may be no other solution to this person's misery or stupidity

Biotrekker said...

This is pathetic. It makes "the Onion" obsolete.

Francisco D said...

The race hustle is an old con game that needs to take on new tricks to be effective.

Rob said...

My advice is the same as David Begley’s. Whitey should kill himself—today.

FIDO said...

I thank the NYT for the thousand new Republicans this created

Mike Sylwester said...

What role did Sarah Jeong play in the publication of this article?

Paco Wové said...

The letter's probably a fake, but the NYT's hatred for white people seems quite real.

Lewis Wetzel said...

You know what doesn't care whether or not there is any "me" outside of his white, rich, cis gender identity?
Donald J Trump, that's who.

daskol said...

Nietzsche smiles.

robother said...

The "That's not Funny!" people have lost the ability to smell a prank. Up until they gain the power to execute like Stalin, that makes them every comedian's walking straight man.

Jersey Fled said...

I thought we weren't supposed to be ashamed of who we are or what we are

Unknown said...

All the Penthouse Forum letters were real, and WWF is legit, not staged.

As for this fella, self hate is disturbing and supremely painful. Got it.

-sw

FIDO said...

robother

It never occurred to me it might be a prank letter because the Left seems to have become their own parody.

The Crack Emcee said...

I can’t get to the NYT, but to the quotes:

“You’re not going to empower others by disempowering yourself.... Seek out the causes and classes and candidates that speak to your vision of America — one in which the lives of the disenfranchised matter more than white people’s feelings…”

I read this as “You better check yourself before you wreck yourself” advice. And are white people’s “feelings” more important than poor Americans? Conservatives are always laughing at liberals and their feelings. I’d think they’d back this.

“[P]art of learning how to [relinquish your privilege] is accepting that feelings of shame, anger and the sense that people are perceiving you in ways that you believe aren’t accurate or fair are part of the process that you and I and all white people must endure in order to dismantle a toxic system that has perpetuated white supremacy for centuries.”

I think this is probably true for everyone. Are white people hating on me, or is it my imagination? Should I examine that question? And is it only I, and other blacks, who have to - in America - or should whites as well?

It doesn’t sound so hard.

David Begley said...

Yeah, reminds me of the Playboy and Penthouse letters. E.g. I had sex with 30 different women in February. Should I shoot for 40? A: Shoot for the moon! But pick a month with 31 days.

The Crack Emcee said...

When it comes to comments on race, you guys parody yourselves as "evil" white people.

exhelodrvr1 said...

"I had sex with 30 different women in February"

Was it a leap year?

TheDopeFromHope said...

And you forgot to add, Whitey, your carbon footprint is way too big. Suicide is the answer to all your laments: call it assisted suicide, late-term abortion, or whatever you want, but let's get cracking--give in to your burning desire to change the world!

https://nypost.com/2018/04/14/activist-lawyer-burned-himself-to-death-to-protest-global-warming/

mezzrow said...

Dear Penthouse letters,

My hot new gf is an amputee I met after reading the letters in your June issue of last year. I feel so guilty that I am an ambidexter while she is a unidexter. I am in turmoil over deciding which limb to "alter" as a mark of my solidarity? If I lose the same body part, will she think I am taunting her or embrace me even closer? I am left-footed after all, and I might have to take a corner now and then for my Sunday football bar team.

So many questions,

Whitey

mezzrow said...

When it comes to comments on race, you guys parody yourselves as "evil" white people.

It's a lifestyle decision, crack. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ You laugh or you cry.

How would we know it's a parody?

Shouting Thomas said...

Kids fresh out of college determined to cure the racists and sexists flooded offices in the mid 90s.

We Boomers in the office at first tried to reason with them. We were on the front lines of the 60s civil rights movement.

Nothing deterred the kids. Everything we said was wrong and needed correction in light of their leftist college indoctrination.

At some point, I realized that my generation had done the same thing. We had denounced our parents. This is a cyclical phenomenon and what it is really about is age discrimination. The young want the old driven from their jobs because the young want those jobs.

Rusty said...

You don't owe grifters anything.
Blacks voting republican? Up 13%.
What, what?

exiledonmainstreet, green-eyed devil said...

Well, if this person feels awful enough about being white, he/she/ze can always self-identify as black, ie Shaun King. "Talcum X" went from guilt-stricken cracka to a lucrative career as a black activist and columnist, and people who were actually, you know, born black, don't seem to mind King speaking for them. Rachael Doležal has fallen upon hard times,since she has been charged by the state of Washington with felony theft, perjury and welfare fraud (behold, a white radical's idea of what "acting black" entails) but she had her defenders in the black community:

Cedric Bradley, a colleague of hers at Spokane's NAACP, suggested it mattered little to him whether Doležal was actually black or not. What did matter to him was her proven track record in social justice work. "It's not about black and white," Bradley stated, "it's about what we can do for the community."

Psychologist Priscilla Dass-Brailsford stated: "Because of a familiarity with black culture, she [may] regard herself as 'transracial'". Psychologist Halford Fairchild said "Rachel Doležal is black because she identifies as black. Her identity was authentic, as far as I could tell." Sociologist Ann Morning also defended Doležal, saying: "We're getting more and more used to the idea that people's racial affiliation and identity and sense of belonging can change, or can vary, with different circumstances."

Breezy said...

Dollars to doughnuts, NYT wrote the letter in order to give that absurd "advice". All the news that's fit to fake.

FIDO said...

Sylvester Magee died in 1971.

Since then, we've had a Black Sec of State or two, and even a Black President.

But much like 'back alley' abortions, we are forever in Jim Crow Days.

I will happily shake Cracked's hand when he leaves the 50's and maybe starts addressing the many problems in his community which are not dependent on white people.

Robert Cook said...

OMG. While the complaints by minority groups of being discriminated against and victimized are often valid, this does not mean white people should abase and flay themselves in this grotesque manner. Either it is simply a form of humblebragging--insincere, for show--or it reflects psychological problems in the person making such tortured remarks. The thing for any citizens to do who are concerned about such matters is to find ways they can work to help improve them, or just do what all of us should always do: treat others respectfully and with courtesy.

Amadeus 48 said...

This letter is a send-up all the way. It is masterful trolling that exposes the idiocy of the Sugars and their phony empathy shop. The right answer is always vote Dem and feel guity. Boo-hoo, poor little you.

traditionalguy said...

Hating The Pale Nordics for the color of their skin is the easiest biggotry known to propagandists. And some of them have really funny colored hair too. It's reddish blonde. That alone should make them guilty of offending the noble POC....but wait, pink and red are colors too.

Lyssa said...

“I feel like there is no ‘me’ outside of my white/upper middle class/cisgender identity”

Isn’t that the problem with all of this stuff? No one is anyone; they are only what (not who) they are. There is nothing outside of the “identity.” It’s collectivism at its finest.

FIDO said...

Robert Cook and I agree on something.

Manners and civility are not fake. It gives us a template for people who hate each other to interact in a way without killing each other (a major issue in dueling Days)

But the Inner City 'keeps it real' and has the homicide rates to prove it.

John Borell said...

I do not understand the feeling of self-loathing some people have.

Nor do I understand the encouragement of this self-loathing.

Well, the second thing I kind of understand. Power. It is all about power. Power of the state to de-humanize individuals.

See, for example, every communist regime ever.

The Crack Emcee said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Tommy Duncan said...

Why does this come to mind?

Is water racist?

Bad Lieutenant said...

Also, Crack, if you feel trodden upon, consider that you have a tendency to trail your coat. The American expression is that you have a chip on your shoulder (the other is from Patrick O'Brian in a passage discussing the provocable tendencies of bastards).

You seem to prefer to engage with the very people who are most unkind to you, and ignore those who lean the other way. It's not merely that you'll settle for bad attention in the name of getting any attention, but that you prefer it. If everyone here was nice to you, you'd probably leave.

You're a mix of passive and aggressive. You sometimes remind me of the Eddie Murphy skit from SNL, where he fronts a reggae trio singing "Kill de white people... But buy my record first!" Now I understand that you're a little weak on metaphor, so I'm not saying you want to kill anybody, just that you combine bursts of hostility with demands for, for lack of a better word, stuff, from those same targets of the hostility.

People playing the racy rayciss with you are playing into your hands. They say a gentleman cannot be insulted by the truth, but that doesn't mean the truth don't hurt. Which is harder for you to reply to,

"You is a low-down no-good jigaboo with cooties and deserve to be mocked and discriminated against, you jungle-bunny you,"

or,

"Regrettably, sir, your people have an average IQ of 85, your worst tear down your best, and with the best will in the world, sir, it is hard to foresee other than a terrible fate for you?"

The Crack Emcee said...

FIDO said...

"I will happily shake Cracked's hand when he leaves the 50's and maybe starts addressing the many problems in his community which are not dependent on white people."

It's funny: I have to tell my Democrat friends that "The Republicans do it, too" isn't an answer to the Left's problems with replacing reality with their NewAge delusions, and I have to tell my Republican friends that they can't keep blaming blacks for the results of policies whites made to lock us in the ghetto with criminals - expecting angels to be produced.

Both sides have the same obvious blind spot - but in different places - and they're both the size of Mac Trucks.

Clyde said...

Oh, to hell with all of those people! I don't really give a shit what they think any more. I'm not going to be some groveling fool like they are whining about my "privilege." Fuck them!

Jeff said...

I don't understand why so many people here ask Crack to respond every time the discussion touches on race. He's not all black people, he's one man. He's usually interesting, but that doesn't make him a spokesman for all blacks. But people want to either challenge him or get his approval because of his pigmentation. It's ridiculous. If you have an opinion, just state it and explain it. Why do you need Crack's reaction?

Rory said...

"upper middle class"

It's funny how this is the one prvilege people can just walk away from, but they never do.

Bad Lieutenant said...

Crack, you may not be aware of the background, but the soon to be censored commenter is apparently a former student of the Professor and has conceived some sort of existential grudge against her. Althouse bore this for awhile, then pulled the plug on the nameless one-who, by the way, does not identify as white. Nameless alternates between rabid froth and cogent if pointed remarks, but Emerita wipes 'em all out just the same.

Jeff said...

Who do all the race threads become a place for Crack to monopolize?
I think you meant "why" not "who". I don't see this as Crack monopolizing race threads. I see lots of commenters acting as if Crack's opinions matter because he's black, not because of whatever he says. And that's ridiculous.

Phil 3:14 said...

Well I wanted to embed the video clip from the Elephant Man when he declares “I’m not an animal. I am a human being!” But the YouTube clips don’t work with the “a href ... “ embed anymore. I always get the bad link result. What’s changed or what am I doing wrong?

Dave Begley said...

I'd like to move the conversation back to something else.

Ann does a valuable service by posting about these NYT stories. Think about it. Here is the leading national newspaper in the most powerful and democratic nation on earth and it is completely crazy. What does that say about the United States? How steep is our decline?

The NYT hires an overt racist and thinks it is okay.

It avidly supports a known criminal for President and slanted its "news" coverage to favor her and slander her opponent.

But the biggest thing for me is that the NYT continues to ignore the biggest scandal in American political history. Hillary pays the Russians for fake dirt on Trump. The FBI and DOJ use the fake dirt in order to spy on the Trump campaign. The FBI and DOJ obstruct justice by not prosecuting Hillary. That's a crime. And then the FBI and DOJ try to get Trump removed from office in a coup. This is serious stuff.

The newspapers all went along for the ride as they love to get the leaks from Val Jarrett, Susan Power ("by the book") and Samantha ("none call it genocide") Power.

And I will continue to bang this drum: If college basketball players can be indicted for throwing college basketball games for gamblers, then surely Comey, McCabe and Point Shaver Peter can be indicted for obstruction of justice in the Hillary investigation. If McCabe got indicted, he'd flip on all of them.

FIDO said...

Cracked:

SOME of your problems are white created. MANY are not...or require willful collusion to embrace these so called white created problems
(Policy has almost zero influence for on black teen pregnancy rates)

I can't 'fix' Marxist Academia. I can't 'fix' flagrant and dishonest Liberal media bias.

I can fix my waistline. I can fix my studying. I can fix my local community.

So...

MikeR said...

"[P]art of learning how to [relinquish your privilege] is accepting that feelings of shame, anger and the sense that people are perceiving you in ways that you believe aren't accurate or fair are part of the process that you and I and all white people must endure in order to dismantle a toxic system that has perpetuated white supremacy for centuries." Nothing requires me to endure sentences like this one.

Clyde said...

@ Phil 3:14

This one?

I Am Not An Animal (Elephant Man)

Phil 3:14 said...

Crack, you should know by now “Don’t feed the trolls!”

FIDO said...

Well, when one writes blatant nonsense, one needs to use tortured syntax to hide it essence of non.

Unlike myself. I deliver my nonsense concisely and with clarity.

Phil 3:14 said...

Clyde, yes exactly. Can you show me the exact code/lettering you used?

zipity said...

Hmmmmm. How can I put this?

F**k the hell off. Period.

The Crack Emcee said...

Bad Lieutenant said...

"You seem to prefer to engage with the very people who are most unkind to you, and ignore those who lean the other way."

I gave you a clear and coherent reason for that: Republicans are spouting unexamined racism, Democrats are spouting unexamined NewAge nonsense - where's the space for me?

"It's not merely that you'll settle for bad attention in the name of getting any attention, but that you prefer it. If everyone here was nice to you, you'd probably leave."

This is nonsense. I reach out as often as possible.

"You're a mix of passive and aggressive."

Like it's easy to embrace people specifically and literally telling me to release my attachment to those I'm closest with, and who have nurtured me and made me strong enough to endure this alone. The request is insane on it's face, but you don't see it.

"You sometimes remind me of the Eddie Murphy skit from SNL, where he fronts a reggae trio singing "Kill de white people... But buy my record first!" Now I understand that you're a little weak on metaphor, so I'm not saying you want to kill anybody, just that you combine bursts of hostility with demands for, for lack of a better word, stuff, from those same targets of the hostility.

And you still pretend whites didn't provoke anything, or ever do anything, and you have this unrealistic expectation that I'm going to go through my entire life like Jackie Robinson on his first day on the field, enduring all anyone has with a wave and a smile.

It's just madness.

"People playing the racy rayciss with you are playing into your hands."

No, they're dirtying yours - and you don't even realize it.

"They say a gentleman cannot be insulted by the truth, but that doesn't mean the truth don't hurt."

Whites just admitted the Civil War was about slavery a two years ago. Now - who's afraid of it again?

"Which is harder for you to reply to,

"You is a low-down no-good jigaboo with cooties and deserve to be mocked and discriminated against, you jungle-bunny you,"

or,

"Regrettably, sir, your people have an average IQ of 85, your worst tear down your best, and with the best will in the world, sir, it is hard to foresee other than a terrible fate for you?"

Neither - both involve whites who are conspicuously missing from both statements - so I can reply to both the same:

Fuck All Y'all.

rhhardin said...

I gave you a clear and coherent reason for that: Republicans are spouting unexamined racism, Democrats are spouting unexamined NewAge nonsense - where's the space for me?

Thinking the best of people instead of the worst.

The Crack Emcee said...

Bad Lieutenant said...

"Crack, you may not be aware of the background, but the soon to be censored commenter is apparently a former student of the Professor and has conceived some sort of existential grudge against her. Althouse bore this for awhile, then pulled the plug on the nameless one-who, by the way, does not identify as white. Nameless alternates between rabid froth and cogent if pointed remarks, but Emerita wipes 'em all out just the same."

Wow. Kray-kray.

Rick said...

where's the space for me?

Apparently there was an opening to embrace racism in return. Congratulations on your achievement.

Lewis Wetzel said...

Blogger Rory said...
"upper middle class"
It's funny how this is the one prvilege people can just walk away from, but they never do.


I don't know any poor white folks, or working class white folks, who feel that they don't have an identity.
Working class white folks take pride in their job, or at least in being a provider, not in being white. But since upper middle class folks don't think that being a trucker, or a farmer, or putting food on the table and a roof over the heads of your family is anything to be proud of, they think the working peope are proud of being white.

Bad Lieutenant said...

I have to tell my Republican friends that they can't keep blaming blacks for the results of policies whites made to lock us in the ghetto with criminals - expecting angels to be produced.

The part where blacks can be blamed, or better put, where blacks can unilaterally act to improve their lot and have done the opposite, is that "y'all" have heavily supported the policies, and the politicians, who have so burdened you.

Do we substantiate agree that the Democrat LBJ and the welfare policies he introduced, and the immigration policies driven by the Democrat Ted Kennedy, have acted on the black community like virtual nukes? Then why or how have blacks been induced to vote for this at 90% rates?

The kindest notion is that the policies were well-intended to remedy past ills.

As the meme goes, How's that working out for you?

The Crack Emcee said...

FIDO said...

"SOME of your problems are white created. MANY are not...or require willful collusion to embrace these so called white created problems (Policy has almost zero influence for on black teen pregnancy rates)"

First, from what I read here, whites have NOTHING to do with it - though only they could write the policies of the past that created these situations - and that includes getting fathers out of the homes. How could they guide children? I think you guys are looking at this only on the surface, and declaring the US innocent, when it just isn't so.

"I can't 'fix' Marxist Academia. I can't 'fix' flagrant and dishonest Liberal media bias."

Sure you can. You don't want to. That's what I see. It's like homeopathy - it's only water. Then why is it on Whole Foods' and CVS's shelves, selling for $30 a pop? Because we don't have the nuts to say "Enough!" to the nonsense, that's why.

"I can fix my waistline. I can fix my studying. I can fix my local community.

So..."

You are willingly abandoning responsibility for the nation you claim to love. That's what I see. And it's shameful. And it's not my, or black's, fault.

Lewis Wetzel said...

“[P]art of learning how to [relinquish your privilege] is accepting that feelings of shame, anger and the sense that people are perceiving you in ways that you believe aren’t accurate or fair are part of the process that you and I and all white people must endure in order to dismantle a toxic system that has perpetuated white supremacy for centuries.”

A burden that history has uniquely destined white people to bear. "White Man's Burden." I like the sound of that. Kinda' poetic.

The Crack Emcee said...

Phil 3:14 said...

"Crack, you should know by now “Don’t feed the trolls!”"

I just got back. I don't know who they are. Plus, some have multiple identities. I'll make a list,...

Roughcoat said...

Who is the censored commenter? What is his/her story? What's going on?

The Crack Emcee said...

rhhardin said...

I gave you a clear and coherent reason for that: Republicans are spouting unexamined racism, Democrats are spouting unexamined NewAge nonsense - where's the space for me?

"Thinking the best of people instead of the worst."

You seem to have missed the criticism against me:

That I "seem to prefer to engage with the very people who are most unkind" - Don't I, by definition, have to be giving other's a chance to do this? Are any of you wandering into black forums and giving your ideas a go? Why not?

I'd think a *little* credit would be warranted, but - I know better.

DavidD said...

“ ‘...feelings of shame, anger and the sense that...’ ”

Items in a series that are not a series.

Who taught these people grammar? Or parallelism?

The Crack Emcee said...

Lewis Wetzel said...

"I don't know any poor white folks, or working class white folks, who feel that they don't have an identity.
Working class white folks take pride in their job, or at least in being a provider, not in being white. But since upper middle class folks don't think that being a trucker, or a farmer, or putting food on the table and a roof over the heads of your family is anything to be proud of, they think the working peope are proud of being white."

I think it's hilarious whites don't understand why the only Americans who don't know what country we're from - because of slavery - think an "obsession" with identity is weird. Even to call it an obsession (when it seems like the most obvious question a people without a national origin can be curious or bothered about) seems cruel. I mean, we didn't do it to ourselves. You all take vacations to relatives in "the old country" - we don't. (Hell, you guys go on vacations, and we don't.) You celebrate your places of origin. We don't. You eat your ethnic foods. We don't know what ours are.

The whole framework you guys work from - that demands we should behave as you do with your backgrounds intact - is bizarre, maddening, and pretty close to torturous.

Fernandistein said...

Dear NutraSweeties

I’m riddled with shame. NYT shame. This isn’t helpful to me or to anyone, especially People of Reading. I feel like there is no “me” outside of my NYT reader identity. I feel like I’m always using up words that should belong to someone who would use them responsibly.

rhhardin said...

You seem to have missed the criticism against me:

Get a prescription for a low dose beta blocker. It keeps your heart from speeding up, and that feeds back into the fight or flee reaction. My heart isn't speeding up, maybe there's nothing to get excited about.

Concert violinists use it.

Sebastian said...

"Vote for the right party and you are absolved . . . He feels ashamed of himself. Good. And then he just needs to vote for Democrats."

Of course. Just apply the Universal Theory of Progressive Instrumentalism: judge any action or utterance by whether it serves the prog pursuit of absolute power, and conversely, support for the cause absolves any sin. By contrast, otherwise p.c. identity claims are of no avail even for a POC if she has the wrong politics.

"So is this letter for real? David Begley writes, "Fake letter published by the Fake News.""

It's too pitch-perfect prog BS to be for real. But it is a real fake: it actually reflects what properly self-hating progs think, and the response accurately captures the desired prog political manipulation of white cis-gendered self-abasement.

President-Mom-Jeans said...

"All her stuff will be deleted and my policy is to take down comments that respond to her too, but I'm making an exception for you."

Ladies and gentlemen (and queer non binary identifying otherkin mentally ill people), I give you the soft bigotry of lowered expectations of a liberal academic. She is practicing her very own form of affirmative action.

Take a bow Althouse. Will you be more statistically likely to delete my comment if I identify as asian?

The Crack Emcee said...

Bad Lieutenant said...

"The part where blacks can be blamed, or better put, where blacks can unilaterally act to improve their lot and have done the opposite, is that "y'all" have heavily supported the policies, and the politicians, who have so burdened you."

Not at the time. Your side was filled with racists. Stop denying it. There's a reason blacks vote the way they do and it has EVERYTHING to do with race, so quit pretending your hands are clean and we're just crazy.

Your side was not an option and you're not looking like much of one now.

"Do we substantiate agree that the Democrat LBJ and the welfare policies he introduced, and the immigration policies driven by the Democrat Ted Kennedy, have acted on the black community like virtual nukes? Then why or how have blacks been induced to vote for this at 90% rates?"

Your side's racism made it easy. Like using a magnet to repel us. Blame yourselves. How were we, coming out of slavery and Reconstruction, supposed to choose you?

"The kindest notion is that the policies were well-intended to remedy past ills."

Agreed. And what was your side offering? George Wallace and Barry Goldwater. That's not a choice.

"As the meme goes, How's that working out for you?"

America? Not as well as you claim.

NC William said...

Um, George Wallace was a Democrat.

The Crack Emcee said...

NC William said...

"Um, George Wallace was a Democrat."

And blacks primarily voted Republican. Figure it out.

Rick said...

How were we, coming out of slavery and Reconstruction, supposed to choose you?...And what was your side offering? George Wallace and Barry Goldwater. That's not a choice.

This is historically illiterate. Out of reconstruction blacks did vote Republican (to the extent they were able to). Black voting patterns changed long before Goldwater, while Wallace was a Democrat. In the 1920s voting patterns started to change for reasons that had very little to do with race. Blacks then as now perceived the welfare state as in their interest and started the migration accelerated by the Republicans being in office for the crash and start of the Depression.

For all Crack's criticism of others ignorance the most profound is his own, confusing left wing mythology for reality.

MadisonMan said...

If someone is kind to me, I return the favor. I try to be kind to everyone, regardless. It's not hard to do. But if people aren't kind, I don't take it personally. You just never know what's going on in a person's life that makes them act the way they do.

That would be my suggestion to the author of the letter, if indeed it's a real person, and I doubt that. Be kind. Help someone do something.

Dust Bunny Queen said...

"I feel like my literal existence hurts people, like I’m always taking up space that should belong to someone else."

You know, there IS a solution to that problem.

The Crack Emcee said...

Rick said...

"This is historically illiterate."

Here we go,...

"Out of reconstruction blacks did vote Republican (to the extent they were able to)."

I love that. Whites are insisting, still, America owes us nothing - when they can write this with a straight face, because they KNOW they kept us powerless and broke without the vote, for decades, and it cost us dearly, in countless ways. Whites watch WWII films and never seem to wonder how blacks were living, not being in any of the old films. It's just normal, with no ramifications. It's crazy.

"Black voting patterns changed long before Goldwater, while Wallace was a Democrat."

That's why MLK was telling blacks to leave Goldwater alone instead of Rockefeller? Because it was so common for blacks to vote Democrat, then? Come on. I was alive then, Man.

"In the 1920s voting patterns started to change for reasons that had very little to do with race."

How can blacks ever tell our own story with white revisionists taking up all the air?

"Blacks then as now perceived the welfare state as in their interest and started the migration accelerated by the Republicans being in office for the crash and start of the Depression."

Right. So that whole WEB du Bois/Booker T. Washington thing never happened - it was all "Hey, Everybody! Let's jump on the welfare state!" right? Like joining The Mickey Mouse Club? If you don't know blacks, what makes you think you'll understand our history?

"For all Crack's criticism of others ignorance the most profound is his own, confusing left wing mythology for reality."

[Shaking my head. Ashamed of the situation whites have made for me to endure with them.]

HoodlumDoodlum said...

It's not something I usually say, but the advice here is easy: kill yourself.
Problem solved.

It is altogether instructive, though, that the advice given boils down to exactly what the Professor identifies: the Left WANTS you to feel shame for being white--they REQUIRE you to feel that way so that you will bow before your Left-appointed rules (many of whom, oddly, are also white!) and bend to their will. That you're reading this in the NYTimes is no mistake--this is not some fringe kooky hippie weirdness but instead an essential component of the "mainstream" Left's exercise of their cultural power.

All of this is aided and abetted by nice centrist smart people who can't wait to agree when the Media labels any resistance to this kind of bullshit racist.

lgv said...

"Yet I fear that nothing is enough. Part of my fear comes from the fact that privilege is invisible to itself. What if I’m doing or saying insensitive things without realizing it?"

The writer is correct. Nothing is enough. Please kill yourself. Leave everything to POC. That is the only action that will be enough.

The Cracker Emcee Rampant said...

"OMG. While the complaints by minority groups of being discriminated against and victimized are often valid, this does not mean white people should abase and flay themselves in this grotesque manner. Either it is simply a form of humblebragging--insincere, for show--or it reflects psychological problems in the person making such tortured remarks. The thing for any citizens to do who are concerned about such matters is to find ways they can work to help improve them, or just do what all of us should always do: treat others respectfully and with courtesy"

Fully, completely, and most important, sanely. Bob kills it here.

William said...

I'm sometimes guilty of self loathing, but it doesn't have anything to do with the color of my skin. If the only shameful thing about you is your skin color, then you haven't been trying....... The letter is flakey, but I question whether the flakiness is flat earther or avant-garde garde. I used to think tats were flakey, but they've gone mainstream.......I suppose you can call it white privilege, but I've never been cognizant of my whiteness being an important determinant in either my virtues or vices. That's one of the perks of being in the majority. If you're left handed, you notice that you're left handed far more than right handed people do. The world is designed for right handed people. That's just the way it goes.......It always sucks to be in a minority, but less so in America than most other countries. I wouldn't want to be in a minority where people like Maxine Waters and Sarah Jeong are the majority.

Inga...Allie Oop said...

Wow, so many suggestions to this poor guy that he should kill himself. What happened to the sanctity of life? Trumpism cured that apparently.

Lucien said...

Cheryl Strayed. Where have I heard that name before?

The Crack Emcee said...

This is now becoming funny - how some are going right by these examples, right here, of whites doing things they should be collectively bothered by and policing (historical ignorance and revisionism, outright racial hostility, etc.) in order to say how, and find ways, they shouldn't feel bad. I wish I could give myself as many "outs" as y'all do.

I see the same thing happening in the media. Here's a new article on Jim Carrey that doesn't mention the word "vaccine" once. That's how it works. He's a great guy, if you leave that out, and who's going to make someone put the story of Carrey and vaccines in the story where it belongs? Who has that power?

Only those who took it out - and those unaware of his role as measles now sweep through 21 states.

But I know better. Me - the black guy. The last person some white Americans might suspect,...

The Cracker Emcee Rampant said...

"What happened to the sanctity of life?"

I missed the part where he mentioned his MS-13 affiliation.

Tom Gallagher said...

n.n. nailed it the other day on a similar topic; it's about maturity. If you're mature or at least moving in that direction you don't have these mental gymnastics about identity. There's no need for self-immolation or having a chip on your shoulder like a lot of comments posted here. With maturity, you gain insight about the instrinsic value of yourself and others and may not lead a trouble-free life but certainly one with more peace and purpose.

Rick said...

when they can write this with a straight face

Crack is so psychologically disturbed he even interprets others' recognition of events he claims they don't recognize as reinforcing their non-recognition.

How can blacks ever tell our own story with white revisionists taking up all the air?

Apparently Crack thinks reality depends on who writes the words. Apparently he doesn't realize this applies to mythology rather than history and thus his insistence is an open admission he is pandering mythology.

Dust Bunny Queen said...

Either it is simply a form of humblebragging--insincere, for show--or it reflects psychological problems in the person making such tortured remarks

Embrace the power of "and".

Why can't it be both?

Jay Vogt said...

I like the construction "...the fact that privilege is invisible to itself." That's pretty clever.

But ya know, if something is invisible to itself, it just might not exist at all.

Fernandistein said...

"You have to relinquish your privilege."

Does "relinquish your privilege" involve *doing* anything?

Like getting store clerks to follow you around to make sure you don't swipe stuff?

Or enticing your next-door neighbor into shooting you?

Asking for a friend.

HoodlumDoodlum said...

Jay Vogt said...
I like the construction "...the fact that privilege is invisible to itself." That's pretty clever.

But ya know, if something is invisible to itself, it just might not exist at all.


Even better: denying the existence of the invisible thing is proof that the invisible thing does in fact exist!

The Crack Emcee said...

Rick said...

"Apparently Crack thinks reality depends on who writes the words."

Didn't whites write the Civil War wasn't about slavery - for over a century? What was it, then, for that entire time? Whatever whites said it was. Blacks didn't matter, saying different. Whites wrote our history. And, if they were wrong about that - and that was a biggie - excuse me for thinking the rest of their take might be just as wrong, as well. Garbage in/Garbage out.

"Apparently he doesn't realize this applies to mythology rather than history and thus his insistence is an open admission he is pandering mythology."

Then explain how whites got the Civil War wrong - for over 100 years - even with blacks screaming they're lying the whole time.

I'll wait.

HoodlumDoodlum said...

Inga...Allie Oop said...Wow, so many suggestions to this poor guy that he should kill himself. What happened to the sanctity of life? Trumpism cured that apparently.

But my dear Inga we're RESPECTING this person's expressed desire to attain a state of mental peace that they've made clear can only be achieved through their nonexistence. We're giving sincere advice based on their sincerely expressed wishes, Inga.
As presented (in both the questioner's premise and the answerers' suggestions) the person can NEVER be free of the burden they bear--there is nothing they can do to expunge the stain that mars them so and--according to them--causes them so much mental anguish. We accept their version of their "lived experience" and thus give the only advice that will cure their professedly-serious pain.

Why would you deny them the answer to their problems, Inga? Why do you want this poor person to continue suffering?

tommyesq said...

I feel like people read Crack's comments with a pre-established idea of his viewpoint that may not be correct. What I see is someone who believes (correctly, by the way) that the problems of the African American community arise from the legacy of slavery, but also believes that the impediments to moving forward reside both in on-going white attitudes AND self-destructive tendencies within that community. However, if he discusses the issue with white attitudes, his comments are reflexively dismissed and all blame is placed on blacks, while if he acknowledges that there may be some issues that African Americans can address within their community, he gets the same result - all blame is placed on blacks. See his comment at 6:48, and look at the responses.

Чикелит said...

Blogger Inga...Allie Oop said...”Wow, so many suggestions to this poor guy that he should kill himself. What happened to the sanctity of life? Trumpism cured that apparently.”

Are you saying that white lives matter too? I thought that was already decided against at a 2016 Dem primary. The one which destroyed Jim Webb’s campaign.

mccullough said...

Why the fuck is this person writing to two white advice columnists about this stuff. They are called Sugar for a reason. They are white as sugar.

This is the zenith of White Privilege. Asking White people for advice on race. It’s worse than White people calling other White people racist.

The Crack Emcee said...

tommyesq said...

"I feel like people read Crack's comments with a pre-established idea of his viewpoint that may not be correct. What I see is someone who believes (correctly, by the way) that the problems of the African American community arise from the legacy of slavery, but also believes that the impediments to moving forward reside both in on-going white attitudes AND self-destructive tendencies within that community. However, if he discusses the issue with white attitudes, his comments are reflexively dismissed and all blame is placed on blacks, while if he acknowledges that there may be some issues that African Americans can address within their community, he gets the same result - all blame is placed on blacks. See his comment at 6:48, and look at the responses."

Give that man a star, or a hand, or just acknowledge he's perceptive as all get-out.

Ken B said...

Why is David so sure it’s fake? It sounds like an apt pupil who has learnt the lesson well. All that he or she missed was recognizing the obligation to vote Democrat.
Medieval flagellants were the same thing, with different sins. They weren’t fake.
I question woeful too. This is bragging. Wearing a hair shirt was bragging too; that's why Thomas à Becket wore one: his ego.

Seeing Red said...

[P]art of learning how to [relinquish your privilege] is accepting that feelings of shame, anger and the sense that people are perceiving you in ways that you believe aren’t accurate or fair are part of the process that you and I and all white people must endure in order to dismantle a toxic system that has perpetuated white supremacy for centuries.


If you move to a foreign country in Asia, Africa or central or South America, you’ll be a minority and your guilt will start to recede.

I’ll help pack.

Bay Area Guy said...

Please, oh lord, help me purge my privileged white guilt, please find me a black man - other than the hired help - to befriend me, so I can express my true feelings of empathy for his plight - I'll do anything you ask, as long as it's after Labor Day, when I return to the City from the Hamptons.

Seeing Red said...

Blogger Inga...Allie Oop said...”Wow, so many suggestions to this poor guy that he should kill himself. What happened to the sanctity of life?


It’s just a left term abortion, Inga, how can you have a problem with that? Your rules.

It’s the age, you really are shallow.

Seeing Red said...

Maybe they can move to Baltimore or Detroit or Cicero?

Comanche Voter said...

Good gracious; poor widdle man. Well I got mine Jack, and I am who I am and proud of it. I let others lead their lives as they choose. They leave me alone; I leave them alone. I may be misqouting an old Simon and Garfunkel song about "I touch no one and no one touches me" but that's a neutral approach to life. Now I suppose I could say that you can be a depressed jerk crying your eyes out--and I won't stop you. But being a selfhating miserable shmuck is no way to go through life.

Inga...Allie Oop said...

“It’s just a left term abortion, Inga, how can you have a problem with that? Your rules.

It’s the age, you really are shallow.”

Even Republican states like Wisconsin agree with my stance on abortion.

The Crack Emcee said...

Bay Area Guy said...

"Please, oh lord, help me purge my privileged white guilt, please find me a black man - other than the hired help - to befriend me, so I can express my true feelings of empathy for his plight - I'll do anything you ask, as long as it's after Labor Day, when I return to the City from the Hamptons."

Napa, Dude - you're Bay Area Guy - it's gotta be Napa. Russian River. Or Esalen.

While I was singing for Bay View Hunter's Point, with the flu.

Seeing Red said...

Even Republican states like Wisconsin agree with my stance on abortion.

Wisconsin isn’t republican yet, too many from Madison.

Inga...Allie Oop said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Inga...Allie Oop said...


“Wisconsin isn’t republican yet, too many from Madison.”

So Walker winning three elections was a fluke? OK, you are a particularly dumb one.

tim in vermont said...

I doubt strongly that I could have summoned the Christian generosity and forgiveness that Ray Charles showed when he sang Georgia On My Mind in the Georgia Statehouse after what that legislature had done to him. Crack is right about stuff like that.

My suggestion to Whitey is that he notice the black people around him, be open to them. Flirt with the lovely black ladies, joke with the men. He's like a racial Incel. He needs to start again to learn what he never learned.

Seeing Red said...

So Walker winning three elections was a fluke? OK, you are a particularly dumb one.

Ahhh, there you are. That’s like calling Illinois a republican state. Superficial as always you are.

Inga...Allie Oop said...

“Superficial as always you are.”

Dumb as you always are, you have no idea what you are talking about when it comes to Wisconsin politics. Wisconsin and Illinois are not comparable when it comes to politics.

Rick said...

Didn't whites write the Civil War wasn't about slavery - for over a century? What was it, then, for that entire time?

Some did, most did not. The idea that this was universally true was invented because people like you find it convenient support for criticisms.

Your racism causes you to misunderstand reality.

Seeing Red said...

Since when is Wisconsin NOT one of the most progressive states in the country?

The Crack Emcee said...

tim in vermont said...

"I doubt strongly that I could have summoned the Christian generosity and forgiveness that Ray Charles showed when he sang Georgia On My Mind in the Georgia Statehouse after what that legislature had done to him. Crack is right about stuff like that."

If we remember, the main thrust of the black Civil Rights Movement is a righteous desire to actually BE Americans, then a nobility even shines through the uglier episodes of flailing, like we see today. The most articulate statement Frederick Douglass ever made on "Freedom" was his escape. Excuse us, if we're still trying (through trial and error) to articulate something about the concept y'all ain't thought of yet, but that, too, seems to be another result of the role the US cut out, for us, as well. One that's beyond our control.

My thing is MENTAL SLAVERY - Cults. The man at the forefront of noticing their influence in America is what? A Black Man (This is not an endorsement of his methods, just pointing out his ability to see the problem regarding freedom, and his willingness to act where others stand by, regardless of consequences). Most still think MENTAL slavery is OK in this country. I never will.

"My suggestion to Whitey is that he notice the black people around him, be open to them. Flirt with the lovely black ladies, joke with the men. He's like a racial Incel. He needs to start again to learn what he never learned."

Easy Peasy.

Qwinn said...

The number of times I've heard "the Civil War was not about slavery" in my 48 year old lifetime, including my reading things written well before I was born, is probably less than 1% of the times I've read that it was primarily about slavery.

The Crack Emcee said...

Rick said...

"Some did, most did not."

Sure. That's why, both, Prager U AND WEST POINT ITSELF decided to make an announcement - because a small group of white people (presumably those who made every textbook I ever received growing up) were,...what? Mistaken, shall we say? Sure.

"The idea that this was universally true was invented because people like you find it convenient support for criticisms."

So, you're telling me, that as long as there was one white guy who thought different, over a century, my entire life's experience of what was said about the Civil War since 1961 has been merely my imagination, based on my racism I developed for no reason, and, thus, a lie of my own making?

"Your racism causes you to misunderstand reality."

That is EXACTLY what you're saying.

Well I'll be.

You know, when I was a kid, white people told us white people were smart. And it's still a let down to discover that ain't always so, like they said. Because then, if it was true, I had something to shoot for. But like this? Pfffft.

If I'm any stupider than I think, that's still ahead of you.

The Crack Emcee said...

Qwinn said...

"The number of times I've heard "the Civil War was not about slavery" in my 48 year old lifetime, including my reading things written well before I was born, is probably less than 1% of the times I've read that it was primarily about slavery."

So the phrase "State's Rights" is unfamiliar, and makes your forehead shrivel up in confusion as to it's meaning - and who advanced it and why? And, I ask again, why did Prager U and West Point itself decide to settle this question - over 100 years after the fact - if it was as settled an issue, to the general public, as you're attempting to make it here? Explain.

narciso said...

Yes but for every Douglass there is a knave like Dubois, who flirted with Wilson fascism and finally communism,

Rick said...

So, you're telling me, that as long as there was one white guy who thought different,

The dominant history in America has always been that the Civil War was over slavery. There has always been a material minority, predominantly in the South, which tried to absolve their predecessors by adding peripheral and secondary explanations none of which change the central cause of slavery. Occasionally people speak out because they don't want people to believe this (vocal) minority.

my entire life's experience of what was said about the Civil War since 1961 has been merely my imagination, based on my racism I developed for no reason, and, thus, a lie of my own making?

It's hard accepting you've been lied to all your life. I'm sure you think you have excellent reasons for your racism, pretty much all racists seem to believe they do.

The Crack Emcee said...

narciso said...

"Yes but for every Douglass there is a knave like Dubois, who flirted with Wilson fascism and finally communism"

You understand nothing about Du Bois and blacks - who could give a damn about communism - because he was also the person we could be free of plantation work and be artists, or try to be engineers, or whatever else struck our now-free fancy. See, y'all ain't including the real story of blacks in your telling, at all. Blacks were coming out of SLAVERY and centuries of no reading, but you want to judge us extra harshly for what you see as wrong choices, when you have no appreciation for either the circumstances those choices were made under or by whom and why. You definitely don't see Americans living a kind of immigrant experience from the South. You see people with a low IQ. That compartmentalizes what whites did, including the deprevations they provided, far out of reach for possible answers, don't it?

For people who want to be loved, and respected, whites can be a real piece of work.

buwaya said...

Is joke comrade.

The Crack Emcee said...

Rick said...

"The dominant history in America has always been that the Civil War was over slavery. There has always been a material minority, predominantly in the South, which tried to absolve their predecessors by adding peripheral and secondary explanations none of which change the central cause of slavery. Occasionally people speak out because they don't want people to believe this (vocal) minority."

Fuck your "dominant history". If whites didn't have the balls to say, once and for all, "the Civil War was over slavery" before 2014, then they let a lie live in this country - for blacks to learn if not *some* whites - for over a century. Maybe you can excuse it, but blacks don't, and have no reason to.

"It's hard accepting you've been lied to all your life."

Who made the textbooks? Where? Teaching requirements in the 60s and 70s? Come on, Champ, tell me how whites did nothing.

"I'm sure you think you have excellent reasons for your racism, pretty much all racists seem to believe they do."

White innocence, there's nothing like it. Your shit must come out in plastic bags.

Yancey Ward said...

If the letter is authentic and not written as parody itself, then parody is truly fucking dead and buried. You literally cannot mock this letter any more than it does to itself.

narciso said...

You're talking to someone who had to leave home, because the white people picked a dirty loquacious rich white guy over a mulatto officer, thus ends the tale.

Rick said...

If whites didn't have the balls to say, once and for all, "the Civil War was over slavery" before 2014, then they let a lie live in this country - for blacks to learn if not *some* whites - for over a century. Maybe you can excuse it, but blacks don't, and have no reason to.

Many whites - the overwhelming majority - said slavery caused the Civil War. A person, even a white, can only control what they say, they cannot force someone else to say something. Thus the fact that a handful of whites said something else is no reflection them. Except to racists of course who attribute anything one white says to them all and conclude guilt based on skin color.

Teaching requirements in the 60s and 70s? Come on, Champ, tell me how whites did nothing.

I learned history starting in the 70s. Schools taught that while there were secondary issues the Civil War was fought to end / protect slavery. The secondary issues mostly explain why the South did not end slavery to resolve the conflict. Whites also did something during the Civil War other than fight to protect slavery, they also fought to end it. So it's particularly ahistorical and racist to claim whites uniformly did or believe anything related to the Civil War.

President-Mom-Jeans said...

"Dumb as you always are, you have no idea what you are talking about when it comes to Wisconsin politics."

Said by that fat old lefty retard who has predicted Walke was going to lose every election he has won so far for Governor, and is now predicting that THIS TIME Walker is done for sure.

Polls told her so, just like they did for Hillary's glorious shattering of the glass ceiling.

Rusty said...

I wish I had the luxury of sitting all day, pondering my whiteness. trying to determine if it's a privilege or a burden.
On the other hand.
If I had all that free time I think I'd use it to do something more constructive.
Don't try and figure it out.
It's a white thing.

The Crack Emcee said...

Rick said...

"Many whites - the overwhelming majority - said slavery caused the Civil War."

Fuck you and your qualifiers - "many whites" - "The dominant history" - all you're doing is lying. Explain why West Point and Prager U decided in 2014 to clear this up (as well as Ta-Nahisi Coates also deciding, before that, to settle it) if it was settled in this country.

If you can't, shut-the-fuck-up.

Qwinn said...

States Rights is an important and correct concept. The fact that it was misused (far and away mostly by Democrats) to defend slavery or segregation does not impinge upon whether the principle itself is correct, and there was a remedy for such a misuse - both civil war and constitutional amendments.

The fact that you cannot perceive States Rights as a concept in any context except that of the way it was misused, and the fact that you apparently heard it all your life and us white folks didn't, is not accidental. This is what you were lied to about your whole life - that any argument favoring states rights can only be about keeping black people down, and cant possibly have any legitimate basis, so all arguments for it from Republicans is proof of racism. It worked so well that it's pretty much the ONLY proof of Republican racism you need. That's how the left conned blacks into betraying the party that freed them and supporting the party that never stopped enslaving them. Not much the rest of us Republicans can do about that.

The Crack Emcee said...

Rick said...

"It's hard accepting you've been lied to all your life."

Now go kneel when the anthem is played, right?

Fucking idiot.

The Crack Emcee said...

I wonder who, in the black community, I should blame for lying to me all my life?

Mr. Feinstein or Miss Chestnut?

Qwinn said...

In Crack's obsessive need to justify his own racism, the fact that Praguer and West Point bothered to respond to the half dozen people left in the country arguing that the CW wasn't about slavery is THE proof that everyone else has always believed that the CW wasn't about slavery. So, you see, by Prager and West Point opening their mouths to slap down those racists, that only proves that all whites are racist. Makes total sense.

narciso said...

Tennessee Coates, as an authority, tell me another one, would you rather there hadn't been one, like that I'll considered HBO series?

Mike said...

Whites are insisting, still, America owes us nothing

Yeah we are. America doesn't owe me anything either. What America presents is OPPORTUNITY for each of us. What we choose to do with that opportunity is up to each of us in his/her own way. This may seem harsh, but it is fair. The less American's feel entitled to the more we feel obligated to do for ourselves, our families, our neighborhoods, our communities, our nation. Man is "cursed" to work "by the sweat of our brow" and there is satisfaction and accomplishment that comes from setting to a task, any demanding task, and seeing it through to the best of our ability. We have lost to common appreciation for WORK. But what we DO matters so much more than what we look like or think like.

Rick said...

Explain why West Point and Prager U decided in 2014 to clear this up (as well as Ta-Nahisi Coates also deciding, before that, to settle it) if it was settled in this country.

If you can't, shut-the-fuck-up.


I already did. There has always been a vocal minority whose influence others intermittently try to ensure remains low. Maybe if you tried to understand what people write you wouldn't step on your dick quite so often.

Now go kneel when the anthem is played, right?

I don't mind you kneeling or whatever else you want to do. But why do you think you have the right to hijack someone else's event? Do you want right wing political diatribes when you're picking up dinner? If someone told you you had no right to criticize them for it because they have free speech would you accept that?

Of course not, it's absurd. You frame arguments in stupid ways because the reality does not support the conclusions you want.

Fucking idiot.

Plus you're an asshole.

mccullough said...

States rights have been about two issues: the right to discriminate against blacks and the right to sell marijuana.

Trying to dislodge states rights from its predominant association with slavery and Jim Crow is like trying to dislodge the swastika from its predominant association with the Nazis. Like some Hindus trying to reclaim the positive swastika some people try to reclaim the positive states rights. It’s a waste of time

The Crack Emcee said...

Qwinn said...

"States Rights is an important and correct concept. The fact that it was misused (far and away mostly by Democrats)"

I like how you guys keep making this about Democrats and Republicans when blacks aren't - we're talking about what both parties have done - which is why AMERICA is guilty.

Your focus on each other just makes it clear blacks have suffered abuse. Which group of whites did the most damage ain't our concern.

Qwinn said...

Those "associations" of states rights to those things were created by the Left through endless repetition precisely because, as statists, they hate the idea of local control of government. Their preferred nanny state is much easier to achieve via one massive controlling body than many localized ones. Plus, socialism never works as long as theres somewhere the people with money that they want to plunder have somewhere to run away to. You may want to give up the argument because the Left has utterly corrupted the perception of its intent. I see no reason or wisdom in rewarding such a vile tactic with complete victory.

The Crack Emcee said...

Rick said...

"I already did. There has always been a vocal minority whose influence others intermittently try to ensure remains low."

You did no such thing. You've provided no evidence whatsoever. I'm not taking your word for it. Wake up, Big Boy - join the adults:

PROVE IT.

And, if it was such a minority opinion, explain why it was in my textbooks in California, while you're at it. Come on, get real.

I bet you can't do it.

Bay Area Guy said...

As an aside, I definitely prefer Crack over Tennessee Coates

Qwinn said...

Yeah, right, blacks aren't making it about Republican vs Democrat - except by voting over 90% for Democrats. It's us evil white folks trying to distract from the real issue here. If blacks are monolithically supporting the party that did (and is still doing) almost of the damage, what does that have to do with anything? What a frickin crock.

Vance said...

Let's assume Crack is right about the Civil War being about slavery, and states rights were a very distant minor secondary calculation.

If so, why are you asking me and other Republicans to feel guilty over slavery and current black conditions, Crack? The Civil War had two sides: the Republicans who were white people who died by the hundreds of thousands to free black people from Democrat slave owners.

Why should I feel guilty about slavery when my party, my ancestors, fought to end it? I'm sorry slavery happened, but my forefathers took care of any "white guilt" I should feel. They corrected that wrong--why should I feel guilty today about it, when my forefathers took care of it back then?

I however feel the "states rights" argument more than most, because most of my ancestors were on the other side of the Republican party too. Remember, the Republican party was formed to combat two things: Slavery was one. The other was "polygamy" i.e. the Mormons. Yes, Blacks have been given the short end of the stick for a long time. My Mormon ancestors were treated just as poorly, if not more poorly than the blacks were. States Rights were very big on the Mormon question, too--Utah tried for over 40 years to become a state just to have some rights against the Federales. Didn't work.

I feel for the blacks, who were persecuted mostly extra judicially-- the KKK was never legal, for instance. It was always criminal harassment. Mormons faced official, legal, state persecution. As late as the 1890's the US Supreme Court said it was a-ok to ban Mormons from voting, from holding office, and legalized taking the land and so forth. Mormons were no more welcome in the Deep South than blacks were, and plenty of lynchings, murders, etc. of Mormons took place there as well.

So why then has the Mormons become a fairly respected, driving force in America when the blacks have not? They both have similar backgrounds of how America treated us unfairly. Heck, the state of Missouri actually issued the only genocide order ever made by a US government, as far as I know, against the Mormons.

So what is the difference? Note that persecution against the Mormons is starting to increase (generally because they refuse to bow down and worship the LGBT community). I predict within 20 years it will rather severe, along with persecution against any other Christian faith that refuses to fully embrace the LGBT as approved by God. I also think the blacks are going to be rejected by the Democrats for much of the same reason.

The Crack Emcee said...

Qwinn said...

"Yeah, right, blacks aren't making it about Republican vs Democrat - except by voting over 90% for Democrats."

Hey, if you guys weren't such hard-assed racists, we'd vote with you (see Rockefeller) but you want to be these assholes seen on this thread, so why would you be surprised?

This thread is a gross display.

You admit blacks have been lied to our entire lives.

You admit whites only "intermittently" thought is was worthy of correcting, over a century, brave souls committed to truth they are.

You admit Democrats have abused us. Democrats say it's Republicans.

You now recognize "States Rights" as a dodge that was used against us.

I can probably get you to admit to everything blacks know America's done to us and - still - you will insist it doesn't rise to the same level as anyone else who's gotten reparations in history.

Because you're racists.

narciso said...

Your nat x routine gets tiresome, so you agree with Attica and the law on heroin?

The Crack Emcee said...

narciso said...

"Your nat x routine gets tiresome"

But the nest of George Wallace's attacking me? You don't see them, right? Got no words for them at all.

And you think I started this, right? Look at my first post on this thread and tell me it's a "nat x routine" I inspired. You can't. You're just another white liar, come to play your part in another episode of "Attack The Nigger For Speaking".

Thanks.



narciso said...

Admit there's been progress since 1965, and focusing on race isn't the solution,

FIDO said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Lovernios said...

Man, Crack is surrounded. Kinda like Black America, surrounded by White America.

Talking past each other without listening. Emotions running high.

My paternal ancestors came to the US in 1880s; my maternal ones in 1920s from Scotland and England. We missed all the fun of the Civil War. White Americans do not have to feel guilty about anything but what they have done personally. I know I don't feel guilty of anything except my own sins. That doesn't mean America doesn't owe its black citizens anything. America has plenty of assets that can be leveraged to remedy that. It doesn't have to be a transfer from some Americans to other Americans. It doesn't have to come out of our paycheck.

When whites put chains on blacks they didn't realize that they, too, were shackled by those very same chains. Even Thomas Jefferson knew there was a reckoning coming. It was/is just a matter of time. How do you want it to go down? Lingering painfully over a few more decades or centuries? Let's get it over with. Let's find a way, together.




Qwinn said...

Blacks *have* been lied to their entire lives. *By the Left*. Why the hell is anyone but them responsible?

Oh, right, because you cant differentiate between white Democrats who enslaved you and white Republicans who freed you. You can't see past the color of their skin to perceive any content of character.

But we're the racists. Not you. Amazing, that.

Rick said...

PROVE IT.

This isn't a court, it's a blog. Notably you didn't "PROVE" anything yet somehow conclude you have. This is standard mythology where assertion suffices to create it while absolute proof is demanded to disprove it.

Debating is an invitation for everyone to evaluate what we say. Nobody recognizes your framing. Even the people who argued slavery didn't cause the Civil War understood it was a minority view. Your arguments don't mean what you think they do. That someone argued against something doesn't show their target was universal to that point. This is just nonsense you've latched onto because it's the best you have. The fact that this is the best you have should be convincing you you're wrong. But because you have an emotional investment to your claims you can't give it up.

join the adults:

Hahahaha. That you're wallowing in warmed over eighth grade resentment is less funny that you thinking doing so proves you're an adult.

The Crack Emcee said...

One of the first sentences in this corrective Prager U video is that slavery, as the cause of the Civil War, "remains controversial" - nothing about this being true, despite the "dominant history" only whites, presumably, got but America don't have to answer for, though it was limited only to them alone - which, I take to mean (since I know it was controversial to blacks in California) all over the damned country.

Stop lying to yourselves and torturing blacks for it. It's not healthy for the nation.



The Crack Emcee said...

Rick said...

PROVE IT.

"This isn't a court, it's a blog."

Ladies and Gentlemen, you know them by their standards.

Rick said...

America has plenty of assets that can be leveraged to remedy that. It doesn't have to be a transfer from some Americans to other Americans. It doesn't have to come out of our paycheck.

This is fiscally illiterate. Any asset transferred could otherwise cover expenses or reduce debt. Money comes out of paychecks to meet expense / debt obligations.


How do you want it to go down? Lingering painfully over a few more decades or centuries? Let's get it over with. Let's find a way, together.

There is no way to get it over with. Any settlement will result only in increased demands. Prior payments are always ignored or belittled as the 360,000 Union dead are already.

Much like education and medical spending any payments will be immediately derided as insufficient and only a "good first step".

Rick said...

Ladies and Gentlemen, you know them by their standards.

It's revealing Crack didn't know this is a blog rather than a court. But it does make me wonder why he didn't bring any proof of his positions.

In Crack's case you can know him by his double standards since he has proven nothing himself. And his racism of course, that's quite distinctive.

Qwinn said...

Leftists have made the existence of only 2 genders "controversial". That doesn't mean anyone but a tiny minority of them believe it.

Clyde said...

Phil 3:14 said...
Clyde, yes exactly. Can you show me the exact code/lettering you used?


It's kind of hard to do that, since doing so actually creates the HTML. I'll try this example with [ ] in place of the < > that should be used.

[a href= "YourLinkGoesHere.com"]Your Text Goes Here[/a]

Unknown said...

David Begley is right. The letter is 100% fake.

"I’m now attending an elite private college that is 75 percent white."

Unicorn U's North Pole campus closed awhile ago. Cheryl Strayed and Steve Almond are liars and/or morons.

The NYT has a low opinion of its readers but you knew that already.

Rusty said...

TCE @ 11:44
At this stage in your life, look in a mirror.

Lovernios said...

"This is fiscally illiterate. Any asset transferred could otherwise cover expenses or reduce debt. Money comes out of paychecks to meet expense / debt obligations."

It could be used to cover expenses or reduce debt. It could also be used to invest in other things, like making the future better for everyone, including your children.

traditionalguy said...

The Europeans caught, bought, commitized and sold for cash one third of the population of Africa to be worked to death in mines and sugar plantations. The tidewater aristocrats thought that was their due. But most southerners could not afford that way of life, but they were smart enough to defend their State from invading northern Armies.

The crime was outlawing slave education and fear of black men. But those sins have long since been repented for and corrected. The wealth from slave ownership was stolen already by reconstruction rules and worthless money. Except the northern Banks and Traders who human trafficked the Africans here. They kept it all.

The Crack Emcee said...

I need to "forget" about my race, white people say. How one does that they can't say, not being black. What do other blacks say?

"I grew up aware that I was a Negro, colored, black, a coon, a pickaninny, a n****r."

Hmm. I think I'll avoid trying to do the impossible being asked of me (by people who clearly don't understand what America's created for me to navigate) and do what works:

Be black, Brother, be black.

Rick said...

It could be used to cover expenses or reduce debt. It could also be used to invest in other things, like making the future better for everyone, including your children.

1. That's not what you argued. You argued the existence of assets means payments will not require taking money from others. This remains false no matter what you fund with the assets.

2. Payoffs are not investments nor will they make the future better for everyone. They will likely make a small percentage of people's lives better. Most of those who receive the payments will not have better lives though as both welfare and lottery winnings demonstrate. Nor can we point to non-monetary factors like a drop in racial resentment to improve lives as racial resentment is far more likely to increase than to decrease along with increased demands for more payoffs.

William said...

I think the most bamboozled people on the states rights vs slavery question were the white southerners. Only a minority of whites in the south owned slaves. But every white man between the ages of fifteen and sixty had to serve to defend the plantation owners right to own slaves..... Sheridan and Sherman waged total war in the south. In the Shenandoah Valley, Sheridan burned the crops, killed the livestock, and destroyed the buildings. He did this to starve the Confederate Army into submission, but it also had the side effect of starving the civilian population. Such tactics when used against Indians are considered genocidal and shameful, but just and fair when used against southerners........When white southerners were part of the New Deal coalition, they were allowed to indulge their grievances and mourn their dead, but all that's past. Slavery and Jim Crow are one thing, but voting Republican is another. That's unforgivable......The wish to now portray Confederates as proto-Nazis is historically inaccurate. They were no nastier than their opponents, although we have arbitrarily chosen to categorize their sins as the worst sins of which mankind is capable.

gahrie said...

The fact that you cannot perceive States Rights as a concept in any context except that of the way it was misused

Now I finally understand why Althouse likes Crack.......

Gospace said...

Only a minority of whites in the south owned slaves

Not quite a lie, but not a quite a truth.

In a family, one person owned the slaves. But everyone in the family benefited from that ownership. So if you go strictly by percentage of people who owned slaves, a very small actual percentage of people were slaveowners. But the percentage of slaveowners goes way up if you include family members of the legal slaveowner.

Lovernios said...

"1. That's not what you argued. You argued the existence of assets means payments will not require taking money from others. This remains false no matter what you fund with the assets"

How is it false? The US Government owns a lot of land out West. It can lease mineral and oil/gas rights to private corporations. These leasing rights could be granted to black owned corporations which could then use the funds generated to help black Americans start businesses, improve neighborhoods, etc. No payments need to be given to any individual. This will cost you and most white Americans nothing. I agree with you that making lump sum payments will not work.

Why are you so opposed to helping solve a longstanding American problem? What do you recommend? Or would you rather do nothing?

Unknown said...

Not that this is directly relevant, but states' rights were first invoked by NE states between the Revolution and the Civil War in order that they might not allow slavery or enforce slaveholders' rights, according to Leonard Richards' fine The Slave Power: The Free North and Southern Domination, 1780-1860.

https://www.amazon.com/Slave-Power-Southern-Domination-1780-1860/dp/0807126004

It's been awhile since I read it but IIRC sometimes that worked and other times it didn't.

Char Char Binks said...

Suicide is the only way out.

tcrosse said...

How would the Reparations payoff be distributed? Means tests? Would eligibility be determined by the One Drop Rule or by proportional DNA?

Gospace said...

traditionalguy said...
The Europeans caught, bought, commitized and sold for cash one third of the population of Africa to be worked to death in mines and sugar plantations.


Wow, worthless statistic and lies. In the American south, slaves were a resource and investment. They weren't worked to death. That occurred in much of South America and the Caribbean. And the Europeans, for the most part, didn't "catch" Africans. The catching was done by Muslim slave traders and fellow Africans, who openly sold them in slave markets. An enormous number of African slaves went to Sharialand. Where the men were castrated. Funny we never hear about the slave trade that went East out of Africa rather than West. Perhaps because there are no descendants of those slaves to complain about the treatment of their ancestors.

This is the wikipedia entry on slacve population in Argentina: The 1778 census conducted by Juan José Salcedo of Vértiz showed very high concentration of Africans in provinces where agricultural production was greatest: 54% in Santiago del Estero Province, 52% in Catamarca Province, 46% in Salta Province, 44% in Córdoba Province, 64% in the Tucumán Province, 24% in Mendoza Province, 20% in La Rioja Province, 16% in San Juan Province, 13% in Jujuy Province and 9% in San Luis Province From today's CIA FActobook: European (mostly Spanish and Italian descent) and mestizo (mixed European and Amerindian ancestry) 97.2%, Amerindian 2.4%, African 0.4% (2010 est.) Down to a whopping .4%. South America, except for Brazil, has far fewer persons of African descent than you'd expect if you look at the number of slaves that were imported if you compare the numbers to the United States.

William said...

@Gospace: Okay, let me rephrase: Only a minority of the white families in the south owned slaves. Slave owning is a rich man's vice, but racism is free and open to all who care to partake........My great grand uncles served with the Army of the Potomac. I'm sure that they were racist, but they served honorably and one was wounded. Black people who were reluctant to serve in a white man's war in Vietnam can, no doubt, understand the reluctance of Irish immigrants to serve in the Union Army. Nonetheless, they served and held the line at Getttysburg. I think it would be a fine gesture if black people agreed to pay reparations to those white people with no ties to slavery who shed blood for the cause of emancipation.

Rick said...

These leasing rights could be granted to black owned corporations which could then use the funds generated to help black Americans start businesses, improve neighborhoods, etc. No payments need to be given to any individual. This will cost you and most white Americans nothing.

1. Leasing these assets is an independent decision. If this is appropriate we should do that with the money going to the general fund which reduces the debt and therefore future taxes. Money always comes from people, there is no magic pot of gold.

2. Graft is even worse than lump sum payments. It's not just ineffective but actively harmful.

Why are you so opposed to helping solve a longstanding American problem?

Your proposition doesn't solve anything. But I love your framing: anyone who doesn't agree with me doesn't want to solve problems. Next we need a lecture on working together.

Let's find a way, together.

Oh we already got that. Interesting how "together" always means "you do things my way".

Qwinn said...

Ronald Reagan was a vocal proponent of States Rights. This was decades after any question of whether such a concept would apply in ny way to how blacks are treated was definitively resolved. And he never argued that it did have such bearing. So if it is only a dog whistle for racism, why would he bother?

The idea that local government is generally far more responsive to the needs of it's people than a vast nationwide bureaucracy is obvious on its face. Lefties hate that idea on ideological grounds, and have been pushing the dog whistle meme (which they themselves were the only ones to actually use that way!) ever since. And so we now l have to cede all state power to the Feds because the bad guys successfully projected their sins onto those who died by the hundreds of thousands to *prevent* the concept of states rights from being abused to evil ends? Screwwwwww that.

Dust Bunny Queen said...

Isn't this "horse" dead yet? Why are we still beating on it?

Francisco D said...

"In a family, one person owned the slaves. But everyone in the family benefited from that ownership. So if you go strictly by percentage of people who owned slaves, a very small actual percentage of people were slaveowners. But the percentage of slaveowners goes way up if you include family members of the legal slaveowner."

Interesting. By that logic, I should be extremely wealthy because my sister-in-law is a $3 million/year attorney. She has not shared a dime with me (not that I want it). My brother-in-law is a multimillionaire entrepreneur, but I have not benefitted from his success (aside from not having to support my sister).

Do you want to rethink your assumptions?

JAORE said...

If you can't, shut-the-fuck-up.

And, thus, we have the final argument so oft repeated.

Gospace said...

tcrosse said...
How would the Reparations payoff be distributed? Means tests? Would eligibility be determined by the One Drop Rule or by proportional DNA?


Worse than that. Do blacks who are descendants of slaveowners get to pay or be paid?

I have a very extensive one surname name family tree mapped out. I have quite a number of black distant relatives. They include Colonels and privates, and Tuskegee airmen, doctors and businessmen. Criminals and clergy. I also have an enormous number of white distant relatives with the same surname. They include Colonels and privates, and airmen (not from Tuskegee), doctors and businessmen. Criminals and clergy. No one's reached flag rank. Yet...

Most people in the U.S. are 5 generations or more removed from 1865. Our ancestors then have little bearing on what we are today. Something I learned very early on in life. I'm responsible for me, my behavior, my actions. And you're responsible for you, your behavior, your actions. My parents divorced when I was 12. Mother had custody. She was an alcoholic, dad wasn't but drank heavily. Both smoked like chimneys. I drink occasionally, never even been tempted to try tobacco in any form, and tomorrow is my 40th wedding anniversary.

There are family situations it's difficult to escape from. Difficult, not impossible. But how your 5 generations removed ancestors were treated or where they lived is not in any way responsible for you today. Nor are you- nor I- in any way responsible for them and how they treated others. I have little to no empathy for people sleeping under bridges at night. Including a brother-in-law. not mentally ill, who's managed to alienate his entire family to the point that no one will take him in. Well, he's now a guest of the state. But he was set up to sell that oxycodone to the government agent... according to him not his fault at all.

Rockport Conservative said...

Baldilocks has a post about white guilt. She sees it as only someone who thinks they are superior actually has the guilt. The rest of us, I assume you don't have it, are less racist and have no need for it. My words, not hers.
Here is a link to her words. https://twitter.com/JulietteAkinyi/status/1029746833969438721

Jason said...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cy1dyIQAEI4

He doesn't have Cowboy Lips.

Gospace said...

Francisco D said...

Interesting. By that logic, I should be extremely wealthy because my sister-in-law is a $3 million/year attorney. She has not shared a dime with me (not that I want it). My brother-in-law is a multimillionaire entrepreneur, but I have not benefitted from his success (aside from not having to support my sister).

Do you want to rethink your assumptions?


Do you live under the same roof in the same household as your sister-in-law? Perhaps I should have been more specific in stating same household. Which were often much larger and included extended family. 3 generations in the same household was not uncommon. Today it's rare. People forget there really are huge differences between how people lived in the 1800s and how they live now.

Dust Bunny Queen said...

"In a family, one person owned the slaves. But everyone in the family benefited from that ownership. So if you go strictly by percentage of people who owned slaves, a very small actual percentage of people were slaveowners. But the percentage of slaveowners goes way up if you include family members of the legal slaveowner."

And SO? Every last fucking one of them is dead dead and long dead.

In addition, I am not related to anyone who owned slaves. I've done an extensive ancestry research. My grandfather was 100% Welsh born in 1984 in Wyoming. His wife (Grandmother) was Quaker from the 1600's in Vermont. Other Great grands from Ireland in the 1870's.

Not my problem.

Dust Bunny Queen said...

Not that my Grandmother was born in 1600 :-) That would make her an immortal witch. That would actually be quite fabulous.

The family tree goes back that far and then to England.

walter said...

Blogger Dust Bunny Queen said...Isn't this "horse" dead yet? Why are we still beating on it?
--
Reincarnation

Francisco D said...

"Perhaps I should have been more specific in stating same household. "

Yes. You should have narrowed the scope of your argument which would significantly reduce the number of people directly benefitting from slavery.

The Crack Emcee said...

Dust Bunny Queen said...

“Not that my Grandmother was born in 1600…The family tree goes back that far and then to England.”

Charlie Brown: “I can’t stand it.”

walter said...

Dave Begley said...But the biggest thing for me is that the NYT continues to ignore the biggest scandal in American political history.
--
As well as Althouse...despite narcisos droppings.

exiledonmainstreet, green-eyed devil said...

Well, here's a case you can legitimately beef about. A 57 year old black guy (admittedly a guy with a long rap sheet)stole ham and aspirin from a store and fled on a bicycle. The judge imposed a $100,000 bond for stealing about @15 worth of crap, citing his criminal record.

Terrorists in NM killed a child and trained other kids to shoot up schools and they're out of prison.

JOSEPH ANGEL said...

I love my White Privilege, and you non-whiteys can not have any.

Jim at said...

Why are you so opposed to helping solve a longstanding American problem?

Because we've been doing it for 50, fucking years already and throwing more money at the problem ain't gonna solve jack.

Lovernios said...

"Your proposition doesn't solve anything."

How do you know it wouldn't solve anything?

"But I love your framing: anyone who doesn't agree with me doesn't want to solve problems."

I'm not framing anything. I was just observing how negative you seem. I'm not saying my idea is indisputable. It's just one idea. You certainly can (and did) disagree.

Now that you shot my idea down what recommendations you would make? Other than do nothing. Or perhaps you don't think that there is a problem to be solved? All the solutions by Democrats have failed. Miserably. For the reasons you've stated: corruption and waste.

Jay Elink said...

Lovernios said... "When whites put chains on blacks they didn't realize that they, too, were shackled by those very same chains. Even Thomas Jefferson knew there was a reckoning coming. It was/is just a matter of time. How do you want it to go down? Lingering painfully over a few more decades or centuries? Let's get it over with. Let's find a way, together."

*****************************

This is the kind of rhetorical bullshit that most whites rightly consider....bullshit.

Real shackles are not the equivalent of undefined rhetorical shackles. I don't feel personally burdened, held back, or having gained in any way by events that took place almost two centuries ago. Or should I demand reparations from the Romans, who probably enslaved my ancestors? Should the Israelis demand the same from the Egyptians?

Slavery is not a white/black thing. It's been practiced by virtually all races ever since humans organized into societies. Are the Chinese, Japanese, Arabs, Italians, Greeks, Brazilians all shackled for having engaged in slavery? And remember: Europeans were the first to campaign to end the practice, on the grounds that it was un-Christian.

Thomas Sowell has dealt with reasons why Jefferson and other Framers could not simply end slavery, in part because it would have resulted in huge societal upheavals and a likely return of the Brits to recapture their former colony. (Just ask yourself: who would have had the power to end slavery then? If a million utterly uneducated and largely unskilled field hands were suddenly "freed"....What then? To do what? To live where?)

A 600,00+ Civil War dead , mostly white men killed in a war largely precipitated because of slavery's divisive and destructive impacts on the entire US, is most CERTAINLY "reparations" of a very concrete sort.

If the aftermath of slavery is "lingering painfully", it's largely because some people are all too happy to pick at historical sores until they are gangrenous.

It's been shown again and again that the reason most people in the US are "poor" in relative terms is not because of racism, but because they haven't the values or the habits of people who believe in self-discipline and individual responsibility AND because the Welfare State allows them to continue being self-indulgent---or like Crack, whine about what "America" created for him to "navigate" IOW the Others responsible for his life.










Ken B said...

Read the book Freedom National. The civil war was about slavery. Everyone knew this then, and for a hundred years until revisionists with ideological agendas started pretending otherwise. I gre w up in Canada. 45 years ago I was taught it was about slavery. (It was slavery that led to the high feelings and acts of secession. Pretending it was about just secession is like pretending WWII was just about Hitler's declaration of war.)

The Crack Emcee said...

In 2019, blacks will have been on this continent for a full 400 years, and I'm watching as three quarters of Americans claim to have had a psychic event, still sure their vision of the world is real, with someone - how was it said? - INTERMITTENTLY stepping in to correct things.

Ladies and Gentlemen, you shall know them by their standards.

Bryan Townsend said...

These people desperately need a dose of Jordan Peterson.

The Crack Emcee said...

Jim at said...

Why are you so opposed to helping solve a longstanding American problem?

"Because we've been doing it for 50, fucking years already"

WOW - 50 WHOLE YEARS!!! WHAT A FUCKING CHAMP OF A COUNTRY WE ARE!!! SLAVERY WENT ON FOR WHAT - 250 YEARS? BUT YOU WORKED ON FOR 50!!! RECONSTRUCTION WAS A 100 YEARS LL BY ITSELF - BUT YOU WORKED ON BOTH OF THEM AT THE SAME TIME FOR 50 FUCKING YEARS!!!

PAT YOURSELVES ON THE FUCKING BACKS FOR THAT ONE. YOU ARE EXPERTS ON SLAVERY AND WHAT BLACKS SHOULD DO, SO SAY I THE 57 - THAT'S 50 + 7 - YEAR OLD BLACK MAN.

(I'm not actually pissed or anything, but that deserved *something* - 50 years. You guys are a joke.

Lovernios said...

"This is the kind of rhetorical bullshit that most whites rightly consider....bullshit."

I grant you it was rhetoric, but it's not bullshit. When Africans were enslaved and brought here did anyone think that this would continue indefinitely? At the time of the drafting of the Constitution the founders new that the compromise to establish the nation would only postpone the problem of slavery. Then of course it erupted decades later in the Civil War. Which did not settle things at all. The Civil Rights era has not solved things. We can debate the historical factors that brought us to this point, but here we are.

The 600,00 dead were not reparations, they were the price to be paid for engaging in slavery in the first place. A far too high a price. The men in power knew that blood would flow. It wouldn't be their blood that flowed, excepting Lincoln. Who made the decisions to go to war? Who benefited? Not the dead and wounded. Not the freed slaves. And here we are.


The Crack Emcee said...

Bryan Townsend said...

"These people desperately need a dose of Jordan Peterson."

If he can get around how Americans made black people into 3/4 of a human being, and awarded themselves land, etc. not given to us, etc., without causing us reparations-worthy harm, you might be right. I'd welcome it.

But, something tells me, if he sided with blacks, y'all wouldn't settle for it. That's the history of whites in America. Violence when you don't get your way. That's why reparations are called for. Nobody should have to live like that in our own country. With even justice depended on white's goodwill.

Bring Peterson in and let's apply some logic to this shit instead. I think it's whites who'd be disappointed.

Rory said...

I'll propose that there be a series of voluntary, tax-deductible funds that people can contribute to to address historical grievances. If someone thought themselves a beneficiary of slavery, they could contribute to that fund. There would be a whole range of funds, not necessarily confined to US issues, so that if someone from a long line of leftists wanted to contribute to the Victims of Marxism Fund, they could do that. Each would have a mechanism to determine eligibility. A person could be determined fully or fractionally eligible. At the end of each year, all the eligibles would get checks dividing up all the money in the fund - nothing for programs or whatnot.

The Crack Emcee said...

Lovernios said...

"The 600,00 dead were not reparations, they were the price to be paid for engaging in slavery in the first place."

Which some whites want blacks to pay them for - they are a hoot when it comes to devising new ways to continue punishing us for eternity.

walter said...

CRACK'S GONE ALL CAPS!
Get that bro summit underway right quick.
It's high time. He wants it.

iowan2 said...

to black owned corporations which could then use the funds generated to help black Americans start businesses, improve neighborhoods, etc. No payments need to be given to any individual. This will cost you and most white Americans nothing. I agree with you that making lump sum payments will not work.

Suuure that will happen.

I live down the road from an Indian casino. 20 years and all those profits have the residents living at poverty levels. Houses are provided. New ones, single family. I see little improvement in their condition. I conclude money is not really the issue. Character counts.
The have a hard time getting and keeping a Dr. You would think the natives would send their best to Medical school every year and they could serve several years Doctoring to their own. But thats just me on the outside looking in. I have asked the natives about the DR situation and working toward a solution, but I never can sustain the conversation.

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