August 29, 2018

"Every summer, the most popular European destinations get stuffed to the gills with tourists, who outnumber locals by many multiples, turning hot spots into..."

"... sweaty, selfie-stick-clogged, 'Disneyfied' towns... Advocates of curbing tourism say too many visitors are altering the character of historic cities, and making travel terrible, too. 'It’s a level of tourism which is degrading the enjoyment that residents have, but it’s also degrading the tourist experience, because the tourist who is endlessly queuing behind backpacks of hundreds of other tourists is not discovering the real or the authentic place,' said Justin Francis, the chief executive of Responsible Travel, a company that arranges 'sustainable' travel for customers....You can’t talk about overtourism without mentioning Instagram and Facebook — I think they’re big drivers of this trend... Seventy-five years ago, tourism was about experience-seeking. Now it’s about using photography and social media to build a personal brand. In a sense, for a lot of people, the photos you take on a trip become more important than the experience.'"

From "‘Overtourism’ Worries Europe. How Much Did Technology Help Get Us There?" by Farhad Majoo (NYT).

The wrong kind of people are traveling, for the wrong reasons. How can they be pushed back? Is the microaggression of that NYT piece enough or is more heavy handed environmentalism and "cultural appropriation" talk needed? Who are the right people to travel? The NYT doesn't want to say the elite... but I bet it's what they think.

Personally, I'm reinforced in my travel aversion, and I confess to my elitism. I don't want to go to a Disneyfied European destination that has its gills stuffed with "sweaty" selfie-takers who are "degrading" themselves and "degrading" the lives of the actual Europeans, who might otherwise be available for encounters with those who travel for the right reasons.

151 comments:

Lance said...

If Europeans were more like Americans, and didn't take such long holidays, this wouldn't be as much of a problem.

Henry said...

Seventy-five years ago, tourism was about experience-seeking

2018 minus 75 is 1943.

For U.S. G.I.s, that was one hell of an experience.

traditionalguy said...

The complaint of the Aristocrats is the usual one. There are too many people alive that have money to spend on visits to the best places on earth, and this is making our trips crowded. Now, if we could only cut the world population by 90% with the latest designer diseases and starvations, or at the very least make them all too poor serfs again to travel, then all will be well in Europe.

Make Rome Great Again.

TrespassersW said...

They're for "the people."

As long as "the people" know their place and stay there.

etbass said...

Ha ha. Boy this one is right in your sights, Althouse. But I sort of share a lot of your antipathy toward travelling. My main reasons are the inconvenience and the work needed to recover for time lost off the job.

Nonapod said...

I'd be curious what the demographic breakdown would be of the tourists of these "stuffed to the gills" destinations. How many are from America? How many are from Canada, Japan, or other European nations?

If the native denizens of these destinations don't want tourists it probably wouldn't be difficult to dissuade them. Just start arresting all sorts of tourists for trumped up charges. But I suspect the native denizens aren't the ones with the problem with "Overtourism". I suspect they're pretty happy with all the tourist money.

Dust Bunny Queen said...

OMG!!!! The Deplorables have figured out how to buy airline tickets and travel to the destinations (previously) owned by the Elites.

How can we stop this horror!??! "OUR" places are going to be overrun by icky deplorable trailer trash people.

:-D

Jake said...

There are no right reasons. There are only reasons.

Wince said...

I took most of that excerpt and did a find/replace "tourism" with "immigration". Notice how the article became "unspeakable".

Every summer, the most popular European destinations get stuffed to the gills with immigrants, who outnumber locals by many multiples, turning hot spots into... sweaty, selfie-stick-clogged, 'third world' towns... Advocates of curbing immigration say too many immigrants are altering the character of historic cities, and making immigration terrible, too. 'It’s a level of immigration which is degrading the enjoyment that residents have, but it’s also degrading the immigrant experience, because the immigrant who is endlessly queuing behind backpacks of hundreds of other immigrants is not discovering the real or the authentic place,' said Justin Francis, the chief executive of Responsible Immigration, a company that arranges 'sustainable' immigration for customers....

buwaya said...

I have had a camera grafted to my body since I was 6.
I learned from my father, a great traveller, to take pictures as pictures, not postcards.

And go out to these places in the off-season.
Granted, in some cases there is no off-season.

And there are locations well off the beaten path. In Spain there are relatively few tourists in Bilbao vs San Sebastian, or Astorga, Teruel, Santander, Oviedo-Gijon, Badajoz, and etc. All are on the rail system.

Patrick said...

Henry won this one early.

Char Char Binks, Esq. said...

I get my travel fix from Rick Steves, Nature, National Geographic, etc. I never have to leave my sofa.

AustinRoth said...

That is why my wife and I plan our travels just outside of peak times. Still have good weather, avoid the crushing masses. Doesn't work for everything (if you want to see the autumn leaves in New England, you have to go during peak season for instance), but as a whole it makes travel more enjoyable.

daskol said...

I think they're talking, in the article, about Chinese tourists. Not only are they taking all the places in NYC's best public high schools, but now they're taking over all the best European spots too.

daskol said...

In NYC, "excessive tourists" easily decodes to "Chinese tourists," since those the tourists you see lining up for NYC's attractions. I call dog whistle.

Leland said...

I'm headed to London in October. It has been awhile. I note the NYT claims it wants open borders and free immigration; until it means a little discomfort to them. Did they mention the discomfort Mollie felt?

BarrySanders20 said...

EDH, that is an irredeemably deplorable observation.

Bob Boyd said...

"The NYT doesn't want to say the elite... but I bet it's what they think."

I bet they think only the best credentialed journalists (and their boyfriends) should be allowed to travel. That way all the lesser beings can enjoy the experience vicariously by reading about it.

Michael K said...

Make Rome Great Again.

NeoNeocon is traveling in Italy and posting about it.

Much more fun than politics.

I assume the NYT did not ask the Europeans who make their living from tourism about it.

I know Venice hates the German tourists who travel on buses, sleep and eat in them and crowd the streets during the day.

Much of Europe is dying off anyway and I don't think the Muslims do much tourist stuff.

Just driving trucks through the locals.

mockturtle said...

As usual, the NYT is full of shit.

Sally327 said...

This reminds me of that scene in National Lampoon's Vacation (the original) where the Griswolds roll into Dodge City and Ellen says, it seems kind of dirty and touristy and Clark replies the Old West was dirty and not everywhere is like home, otherwise why go anywhere.

So if you live in a place that isn't real touristy maybe it's part of the authentic experience, to travel to somewhere that's real touristy. Which probably used to be someplace like Disney World but is now anywhere in the world reachable by modern transportation.

Michael K said...

I miss travel but my wife does not do well on long plane trips.

When we were younger we would go to London every winter for a week and just go to theater.

We saw "Cats" several times, once with six teenagers, "Evita" and "Starlight Express," all on first runs.

It was much better than going to New York.

traditionalguy said...

The Ugly American book was the first post war iteration of thie complaint. The Europeans needed tourists that brought dollars, but hated us for it anyway. Les soldats Americaine were bitter memories in blown away towns from Normandy to Berlin. Today the NATO alliance is withering away fast. Trump saved it.

CJinPA said...

Fascinating to see the Times walk the line between fretting over an influx of sweaty tourists (who come and leave) while simultaneously condemning concern over the influx of non-European immigrants (who come and change the culture.)

CJinPA said...

Much of Europe is dying off anyway and I don't think the Muslims do much tourist stuff. Just driving trucks through the locals.

That was my thought. This article seems like a relic of simpler, more innocent time.

CJinPA said...

I'd be curious what the demographic breakdown would be of the tourists of these "stuffed to the gills" destinations. How many are from America? How many are from Canada, Japan, or other European nations?

France has seen a dramatic decline in tourists from Asia. I think they consider it too dangerous.

HoodlumDoodlum said...

The hoi polloi insist on ho polloi-ing; how dreadful!

I have to chuckle at the prospect of these quaint little town turning up their noses and refusing to accept our fat, sweaty American dollars. "Non Monsieur, your money she is not good enough for we noble European types; be gone!"

Not to be crude, but what the fuck else do these towns have to offer? They're picturesque backwaters and the people there make their livings selling the view and experience. If the Instagrammers stopped showing up they'd actually have to try competing against the rest of the world in an actual industry (making something, selling something) and since they've been unable to do that for hundreds of years....well, good luck.

Anyway there's some saying about biting the hand that feeds you, or looking a gift horse in the mouth; some junk like that. I've got to get back to my Big Mac, Big Gulp, and Xbox but I'm sure the scultured sophisticates will figure it out.

HoodlumDoodlum said...

Seventy five years ago the average person couldn't afford much in the way of fancy vacations.
Seventy five years ago the world was in the middle of a war and most places had only just started to come out of a (great) depression.
Seventy five years ago the people who did tour/vacation abroad (for the experience & all the right reasons, of course) were probably quite wealthy.


The Left is funny: they're all about fighting inequality and insisting that the rich not have advantages...right up until the topic is some advantage they themselves like but technology/capitalism has made available to non-rich people, at which point they switch to insisting that ONLY the elite (who of course understand and appreciate things so much better) should have access/that advantage.

Seeing Red said...

At the end, this story is just a numbers problem,” Mr. Tourtellot said. He noted that in 1960, when the jet age began, around 25 million international trips were taken. Last year, the number was 1.3 billion.


Yeah, those numbers have $ Euro and world currency signs in front of them.

The world is getting richer. Europe is richer. They can afford to pay their fair share in defense.

tim maguire said...

It's quite easy, even in the most tourist-invested towns, to stay away from the tourist areas and see lots of great stuff the travel guide tourists miss.

The Eiffel tower is no better in person than in photos.

Seeing Red said...

Btw that guy didn’t have to choose those cities.

It’s an amusing article. He’s complaining others are doing what he did.

He should have tried Estonia Portugal and other places.

readering said...

Althouse let her aversion to travel completely distort the article. The writer has the technology beat at NYT so naturally his article, triggered by his own family vacation focuses on technology. Hotels are a huge investment so important to fill them with visitors. But airbnb changes things.

Michael said...

Money, of course, can nearly always buy a spot at the front of the line, a ticket to an otherwise closed to the general public event, a top notch hotel, a first class seat. But better to go in the off season. It is going to be very hard to avoid the Chinese who are already in hoardes around Paris swinging their selfie sticks and blocking entrances as they gawk. Plus they spit. As Buwaya notes there are wonderful places to visit in Europe that will be empty of visitors, villages in Wales or the Borders, Granada, Madrid is rarely crowded, Austria and Switzerland. Poland. Romania

The "Disneyfication" meme must come from people who have never been to Europe. Or Disneyland.

madAsHell said...

Farhad Majoo?!?.......Isn't he one of the reasons that I take my shoes off at the airport?

CJinPA said...

I see France has recovered from the tourist decline that followed terrorist attacks in 2015/16:

A charm offensive to woo back tourists frightened off by terror attacks in Paris and Nice has been so successful that France is now struggling to cope with record numbers of visitors.

https://tinyurl.com/y7bjq6yd

Sacre bleu! We need, maybe, tiny terroreest attack to tamp down zee numbears...

Unknown said...

If all the tourists claim to be Muslim refugees there won't be any problem with them.

Greg P said...

It's in the New York Times, so I'm not going to read it, but from your excerpt, Althouse, I believe you are engaging in provincial American bias.

Because most of those tourists are Europeans, and getting there by train (hello EurailPass).

Although when it comes to "camera obsessed tourists", I've never met any to beat the Japanese.


Well played, EDH.

Big Mike said...

I know from my 45 years living in the Washington suburbs that downtown Washington, DC, is wall to wall tourists (mostly families) from May through September, and wall to wall school tourist groups in colder months.

Ralph L said...

Many places are Disneyfied in the sense that they've been cleaned up quite a bit.

Crowds certainly ruin sightseeing, but it's the money not the social media that causes them. I don't get the appeal of the giant cruise ships and high-rise condo beaches either.

MarkW said...

Exactly the same anti-tourist snobbery was around in your great-great grandparents generation (a hundred years before Instagram). Here's the 1908 version:

"So, Miss Honeychurch, you are travelling? As a student of art?"

"Oh, dear me, no--oh, no!"

"Perhaps as a student of human nature," interposed Miss Lavish, "like myself?"

"Oh, no. I am here as a tourist."

"Oh, indeed," said Mr. Eager. "Are you indeed? If you will not think me rude, we residents sometimes pity you poor tourists not a little--handed about like a parcel of goods from Venice to Florence, from Florence to Rome, living herded together in pensions or hotels, quite unconscious of anything that is outside Baedeker, their one anxiety to get 'done' or 'through' and go on somewhere else. The result is, they mix up towns, rivers, palaces in one inextricable whirl. You know the American girl in Punch who says: 'Say, poppa, what did we see at Rome?' And the father replies: 'Why, guess Rome was the place where we saw the yaller dog.' There's travelling for you. Ha! ha! ha!"

"I quite agree," said Miss Lavish, who had several times tried to interrupt his mordant wit. "The narrowness and superficiality of the Anglo-Saxon tourist is nothing less than a menace."


http://www.literaturepage.com/read.php?titleid=roomwithaview&abspage=59&bookmark=1

Sydney said...

We were walking through Central Park this summer, when another tourist approached us and said, “Excuse me, do you speak English?”

Tommy Duncan said...

My wife and I like to travel to low key European Alpine ski areas during the off season. The other tourists are mostly German, Austrian and Swiss (often local) who are there to hike in the Alps. The hikers are generally outgoing and social, so we learn a lot in gondolas, trains and buses. We look for the restaurants the locals frequent and don't hesitate to share a table. Lines are non-existent. We do our best to blend in.

The local restaurants serve regional foods along with local beers and wines. Much of the food has a seasonal aspect. For example, in May of 2017 there was an abundance of asparagus on the menus.

We usually try to visit any tourist sites (castles, concentration camps, beer halls, cathedrals, for example) in mid-week. We look for the local "music in the park" events and attend mass on weekends.

That said, my wife takes several hundred pictures with her cell phone each trip.

Amexpat said...

I've worked many years working in the travel business in Europe and travel frequently myself. A few observations:

1. It's not that hard to get away from other tourists. Avoid the major sights (as Yogi said, they're so popular no one goes there anymore), travel off season and off the beaten track.

2. The Chinese are changing tourism here in Europe. Each year the numbers are going up and they spend a lot of money buying brand name clothes in the shops (much of it is made in China, but they don't want to buy it in China because it most likely will be a knock off). They are not the best tourists (spitting, farting, picking their noses in public) but money talks.

3. Americans are considered to be the best tourists here in Scandinavia. The ugly American is cliche from the 50's and 60's that is no longer applicable. American tourists are generally very considerate of locals (in my view oversensitive about offending).

PM said...

This had to be triggered by that selfie-fight at Trevi Fountain.

David53 said...

Yeah, I'm with Henry on this.

It was stupid to say, "Seventy-five years ago, tourism was about experience-seeking." There was no tourism 75 years ago. Germany controlled most of Europe, Patton was fighting in Sicily, battle of Stalingrad ends with only 2 million casualties. Tarawa, Guadalcanal, Warsaw Ghetto Uprising, Rome bombed, V-2 rocket production ramped up.

I'm glad many G.I.s took pictures. My Dad took hundreds of pictures in China just weeks after Japan surrendered, then in 1953-4 he photographed post war South Korea. Yes, those pictures help define him and his generation. I'm glad he had the photo bug.

Yancey Ward said...

It is behind the paywall, so did the article dovetail in Climate Change as a reason to limit travel?

Also, I wonder if they could smell the Trump support?

gilbar said...

last year about 4.3 million people visited Yellowstone National Park
About half a million people Live in Wyoming...
So, every year, for every Cowpoke in Wyoming, NINE dudes came to visit
Nearly ALL come in July and August.

Even Still, if you can walk a quarter of a mile from a parking lot, you will probably be alone
Yosemite is the same way, so is Sequoia; walk a quarter of a mile: Find Peace
Tourists don't leave parking lots

Diamondhead said...

So go a little off the beaten path. Budapest and Krakow come to mind...two strikingly beautiful cities with fascinating histories, people who are generally happy to have you there, and not overrun with tourists.

Bill Peschel said...

Don't forget that The New York Times, like New York magazine, love to lecture us on our obscenely large carbon footprint, at the same time they publish plenty of pages urging their readers to travel overseas.

Latest example: New York magazine, Aug. 6-19. In the front: David Wallace-Wells on "How is the End of the World Already Old News?" about climate change burning down California. In the back: the Fall travel section, "Pretend You Actually Live Here," promoting travel to Lagos, Stockholm, Beijing, Honolulu, Dubai, San Francisco, Bogota, and Bangkok.

Earnest Prole said...

Daniel Boorstin made the anti-democratic argument against travel in his 1962 book The Image. Who are all these . . . people . . . who lack my taste and sophistication?

Carter Wood said...

Donna Leon's excellent series of Commissario Guido Brunetti mystery novels brings the deterioration of Venice into sharp focus. When I visited in college in 1978, I heard but German, French and American English, but hardly any Italian. I imagine Japanese and Chinese have become common as well.

Michael K said...

The ugly American is cliche from the 50's and 60's that is no longer applicable.

It was always an ignorant error anyway. The Ugly American in Burdick's book was the hero.

He was the guy, modeled on Lansdale, who would sit on the cub and talk to the locals.

stevew said...

Boston is filled with tourists in the summer, mostly families with kids. Clears out after Labor Day until the following June. Other than when work demands it I reserve my visiting to the off-season.

-sw

Fernandinande said...

the most popular European destinations get stuffed to the gills with tourists

1. That's the deinition of "most popular".
2. Nobody goes there because it's too crowded.

mockturtle said...

Never been there but friends and family recommend Prague. I think Dubrovnik would also be interesting.

Michael K said...


Blogger MarkW said...
Exactly the same anti-tourist snobbery was around in your great-great grandparents generation (a hundred years before Instagram). Here's the 1908 version:


In 1908, it really was the snobs who were touring. Sara Wiborg and her mother and sisters toured Europe by auto in about 1912.

In 1915 they returned to the states and Sara married Gerald Murphy.

She would be 134 this fall.

mockturtle said...

My brother lived on the Oregon coast and would always bemoan the summer tourists clogging the highway [There's only one--101] but the towns would be bankrupt without them.

johns said...

What a great thread this is, so far. There is nothing that brings out the exquisite talents of the Althouse commenters like a chance to skewer the pomposity of the NYT.

Freeman Hunt said...

"And go out to these places in the off-season."

This. I am crowd averse and perhaps uncommonly so. Everything in the off-season. Incredibly, even though everything is better in the off-season, it's cheaper too, a pleasant bonus.

Michael K said...

I think Dubrovnik would also be interesting.

Dubrovnik is a pretty walled town and was once a rival city state to Venice.

They really hate Serbs and there was a map of the city with each house damaged in the Serbian shelling clearly marked.

hombre said...

We lived in tourist towns (e.g., Ashland, OR, Sedona, AZ) for years. It was fun, if congested. My wife and I just returned to Tucson from Oregon by plane. I’ve really had enough of TSA, late flights and gouging for money. We will be looking for a comfortable used sedan to travel in.

readering said...

Ugly American dates to when US standard of living far above rest of shattered post WW2 world economy. No longer true.

mccullough said...

Tourism is big money for most of these places. They have been tourist traps since before the oldest of the locals was born, except during World War 2.

Going to Europe is interesting for Americans. We pretend to see the sites but we’re actually interested in seizing the people who stayed in their shitholes instead of coming to the US.

Most of them are meek, which is why they Muslims slap them around.

mccullough said...

“Seeing” not “seizing.”

Sigivald said...

When I see people obsessing with "authentic" and "real", I know they can be ignored, in such contexts.

(As if his "responsible" tourists really see the "real, authentic" place, either. They just see a different front.)

T said...

"Seventy-five years ago, tourism was about experience-seeking. Now it’s about using photography and social media to build a personal brand. In a sense, for a lot of people, the photos you take on a trip become more important than the experience."

This is not a new observation. The late Time magazine art critic, Robert Hughes, noted in his 1980 miniseries The Shock of the New that "It is now more important to have seen Michelangelo's David than to see it."

Even 40 years ago, tourism per se was a mark of status.

Bill, Republic of Texas said...

London, Vienna, France and Italy (Rome and north) are overrun. Scandi countries are crowded because their season is so short. Go shoulder and you'll love it. Germany, Spain, Sicily are all great and not too crowded.

Prague, Budapest and Croatia are all good destinations with pretty good tourist infrastructure.

A little more adventurous can go to Russia, Romania, Bulgaria.

Albania is amazing but almost no tourist infrastructure.

wholelottasplainin said...

Went to Iceland last month. Weirdly beautiful. Given its location, there's no real off-season: too damn cold, except from June-Sept.

Surprised to see too many tourists, and especially so many Asian tourists. Chinese, Japanese, Indians, Koreans....

Yep. The entire world is getting richer. GOOD.



tim in vermont said...

I have to chuckle at the prospect of these quaint little town turning up their noses and refusing to accept our fat, sweaty American dollars. "Non Monsieur, your money she is not good enough for we noble European types; be gone!"

Chinese people have a completely foreign sense of social etiquette and there are a LOT of them in Europe in the summer. Or there were a couple few years ago, last Time I was a tourist in Paris. You have seen all of the main sights in the movies anyways, and even off the beaten path in Europe is worth seeing.

Darrell said...

I watch Tinto Brass movies on YouTube to get a feel of Italy.

stlcdr said...

The problem with being off the beaten path is that social media and world ‘news’ exists there, also. Coupled with the fact that the locals may like being out of the tourist area may mean that you may not be very welcome, particularly if you are American (media is doing a very good job of showing how nasty America and Americans are).

In Europe, it is advised that Americans not demonstrate any outward appearances of being American.

buwaya said...

"In Europe, it is advised that Americans not demonstrate any outward appearances of being American."

Not being American, this is not obvious to me.
The opposite is true IMHO.

buwaya said...

"He was the guy, modeled on Lansdale, who would sit on the cub and talk to the locals."

Always be that guy.

Dust Bunny Queen said...

In a previous post that Althouse put up, we (in the comment section) extensively discussed the difference between being "a traveler" versus being "a tourist".

The difference (IMHO) is that a traveler is one who goes places to actually see and immerse himself into the experience. Those places are not necessarily the destination locations. A traveler is one who digs deeper into the flavor and culture of the location.

A tourist is one who is going to the "destination" place mostly in order to check off the experience on a list of tourist destination. Or as stated above: they love to say they have seen a famous location, but didn't really SEE the location. Tourists are just skimming over the surface without always appreciating the reality underneath.

People who live in these locations can recognize who is a traveler appreciating the experience and who is just a water bug skimming over the surface collecting memorabilia and photos to impress other people.

MarkW said...

In 1908, it really was the snobs who were touring. Sara Wiborg and her mother and sisters toured Europe by auto in about 1912.

I don't think Gerald and Sara Murphy were taking package tours and thumbing through their Baedeker guides. There definitely was mass tourism 100 years ago. Part of the push for the development of National Parks (the National Park Service just turned 100) came from a desire to have attractions that could compete with European cathedrals and keep American tourists here at home.

buwaya said...

"He was the guy, modeled on Lansdale, who would sit on the cub and talk to the locals."

Always be that guy.
The best at it are Australians.
Note that Japanese travellers are often much like this. Very different from their reputation.

Amexpat said...

In Europe, it is advised that Americans not demonstrate any outward appearances of being American.

Whose advising that? The message hasn't gotten through to me. From my experience, it's generally an advantage being an American in Europe.

Larry J said...

You don't have to travel overseas to be an Ugly American. I've encountered quite a few here in the US. In my experience, they tend to be people from the coasts who are visiting (or moving to) locations in the great unwashed Flyover Country. They loudly proclaim how backwards everything is compared to their coastal cities. Rather tiresome lot.

Dislike of tourists isn't limited to overseas locations, either. I recall seeing a bumper sticker in Alaska that read, "It's tourist season so why can't we shoot them?"

Joe Biden, America's Putin said...

too many people on the planet.

Anonymous said...

In NYC, "excessive tourists" easily decodes to "Chinese tourists," since those the tourists you see lining up for NYC's attractions. I call dog whistle

We traveled thru western Canada last year. It's definitely Chinese they are hinting at. Unlike Americans they travel in huge groups, always with the phone-camera, and also with very expensive Nikon and Canon SLRs. Too bad the snooty Euros don't like Chinese money flowing into their stagnant economies.

buwaya said...

"Nikon and Canon SLRs"

Sony/Fuji mirrorless these days.

AZ Bob said...

The super rich have little interest in "authentic travel." There is little difference in a three-star restaurant in any city in the world.

MountainMan said...

"In Europe, it is advised that Americans not demonstrate any outward appearances of being American."

Impossible. My European friends say that Americans are very easy to identify, mainly due to our clothing and shoes.

BTW, wish I had more time to comment on this as I am currently leaving Oslo on a cruise ship. Been in Europe for a week.

Michael K said...

In Europe, it is advised that Americans not demonstrate any outward appearances of being American.

When my ex-wife and daughter visited Turkey a couple of years ago, she put a Canadian sticker on her backpack.

One reason, of many, why she is my ex-wife.

Bruce Hayden said...

“last year about 4.3 million people visited Yellowstone National Park
About half a million people Live in Wyoming...
So, every year, for every Cowpoke in Wyoming, NINE dudes came to visit
Nearly ALL come in July and August. “

We were talking recently that we need to go back there. Maybe on our trip south this fall. Drive by it a couple times a year, but never through it. For me, it is nearing 30 years now, and the last time we had 7 pm dinner reservations at Chico Hot Springs, by Wray, MT. Which meant rushing through, with one or two quick stops, and maybe the use of a horn once or twice. For her, it might have been only 20 years ago, with at least 4 kids in tow. Fond memories of camping and fishing there almost 60 years ago. Everything seemed slower back then.

We often drive around the North Rim of the Grand Canyon on our yearly pilgrimages north and south (bypassing LAS Vegas), but don’t stop. And we recently spent 4 days in Flagstaff, 30 miles from the South Rim, but didn’t go there then either. What is really criminal is that we bought one of those Senior Passes for Nat Parks, FS, etc, for only $20, and it is good for the rest of my life. We spend several weekends a year in Kallispell, but rarely go into Glacier, drive through Estes Park on occasion, and don’t go to Rocky Mtn (though I love Trail Ridge), Durango and Cortez, but skip Mesa Verde. It’s all free, but we don’t stop. Always in a too much of a hurry, which is silly, given our paucity of commitments.

Etienne said...

We spent last Christmas in Avignon visiting my wife's cousins, and it was wonderful in that there were very few tourists, as it was off season.

However, the train was packed to the gills from/to Frankfurt. I made round-trip reservations in September for December, and we got the last two seats. I figured people would cancel and some of the seats would be empty, but no, every first-class seat was booked.

It's not a very scenic trip though, as the high speed train travels through the night. I kept waiting for us to hit a water buffalo on the tracks, but a regular passenger was telling me that anything on the tracks is just tossed aside by the way the nose is designed.

Michael K said...

There definitely was mass tourism 100 years ago.

It was called "World War I."

Actually, mass tourism by Americans did not occur until airplane travel became common.

The first time I went to England it was 1977 and the 707 did not go non-stop. We had to stop in Canada. The seats were even smaller than they are today.

Michael K said...

Always in a too much of a hurry, which is silly, given our paucity of commitments.

We are going to Monument Vally in October and meeting y sister from Chicago.

I think we'll stop for a day at the Grand Canyon.

Bruce Hayden said...

“Went to Iceland last month. Weirdly beautiful. Given its location, there's no real off-season: too damn cold, except from June-Sept.”

The My kid was there a couple weeks ago, on the way back from a conference in Ireland. They posted some great pictures on Facebook. Got a Guinness hat the last time they were in Ireland, so this time it is supposed to be a shirt. Unfortunately, they have a call for three shirts, and only two were acquired. We shall see. Maybe some mugs next time.

Etienne said...

My Canon (20D) is so old now that the Compact Flash card is no longer standard equipment on computers. It is the large size (about an inch square).

I guess I need to see if they make a small size that fits into the larger size.

I keep hoping someone will steal it, so I can use my insurance money to buy a newer mirrorless rig.

Bruce Hayden said...

I should add that that kid spent a semester in college in Madrid, and got to see a lot of Southern Europe (plus Ireland, since it was much cheaper from there than London or Paris by air). Favorite story, I think, was a 36 hour trip to Rome, where they managed to walk around an entire country in maybe an hour (looking for the tourist entry). Thought they were going to miss their flight back, due to Italian work ethic getting through security, but the plane was just as late, so, despite some panic made it in plenty of time.

Bruce Hayden said...

“We are going to Monument Vally in October and meeting y sister from Chicago.”

Another one of those places that we rush through, and probably shouldn’t. Fastest route between Phoenix and the ski community I was living in west of Denver is right through there (from Flagstaff up through Moab to Crescent Junction on I-70), and at one point was driving through, both ways, at least once a month. Would, of course, also drive right by Canyon Lands and Arches NPs (latter which you can see from the road by Moab), without stopping.

Mark said...

I went to France for two weeks this summer. Did not eat at a single restaurant.

Why? Because every one of them was oriented toward tourist food.

Anonymous said...

Sony/Fuji mirrorless these days.

Maybe so but I saw several Canon 5Ds and 1Ds. Very wealthy people apparently. Very different social customs. They never make eye contact or acknowledge you if they bump into you. Maybe it's the lack of English or maybe it's just Chinese culture. Not sure.

BUMBLE BEE said...

Henry at 9:32... "Europe in 1943"
Great poster showed an old fart talking about his memories of "cruising Europe" as a 20 year old. "Bombed shit out of it too!" Still tickles me!

MarkW said...

Actually, mass tourism by Americans did not occur until airplane travel became common.

I suppose we're arguing over the definition of 'mass' but it certainly wasn't limited to the independently-wealthy. Plenty of run-of-the-mill white-collar folks (doctors, dentists, lawyers, bankers, business owners, etc) took European tours. And, yes, the World Wars (along with the Great Depression) certainly did put a dent in global economic integration and international tourism.

buwaya said...

Re CF cards for your Canon 20D -

Adapter to SD cards -

https://www.amazon.com/Eye-Fi-Compact-Adapter-Professional-Digital/dp/B001DKO7R8/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1535566006&sr=8-3&keywords=cf+card+adapter

SD/SDHC/MMC/Eye-Fi card to Compact Flash CF Type II Adapter for Professional DSLR Digital SLR Camera PDA Pocket PC

$16.98

Get it through the Althouse Amazon portal!

That camera is still excellent in spite of specification creep these 14 years.
I would be more worried about batteries, get a few spares and a charger. Also on Amazon!

Etienne said...

If you go to the Pyramids in Egypt, do NOT speak English, Spanish, German, or French. If the kids run up to you and say "give me dollar" just say "Nay Tack!" if they ask where are you from, say "Eezland".

Otherwise you will have 200 beggars surrounding you.

Etienne said...

Mark said......every one of them was oriented toward tourist food.

...and owned by a Vietnamese or Ethiopian. :-)

When I'm in France, or California, the only place I eat is from a Taco truck.

Taco trucks are very clean.

Michael K said...


“We are going to Monument Vally in October and meeting y sister from Chicago.”

Another one of those places that we rush through, and probably shouldn’t.


Just finished making reservations. We've had the Goulding Lodge for months as it fills up fast.

We are going to spend a night in Sedona on the way. One the way back, a night at the Grand Canyon. I tried the Tovar hotel but entire month of October booked.

The Goulding lodge was the trading post that John Ford used for several movies, including "She wore a Yellow Ribbon."

Michael K said...

I gave up on SLRs when traveling. I just got pocket digitals with AA batteries. When I had the teenagers they always lost the chargers.

You can always find AA batteries.

Etienne said...

buwaya said...Adapter to SD cards

Thanks, it's been on my to-do, so I'll go off and order it.

Sheesh, the USB-3 card reader for stock cards is cheaper, but I don't think it will be needed if I trade the camera up later. Just another think on the desk.

rhhardin said...

I was unimpressed by Europe in 1960, before the tourists came. Maybe it's been cleaned up by now.

Etienne said...

Michael K said...I gave up on SLRs when traveling.

I have a 16-35mm lens on my Canon 20D. It cost as much as the body, but it's been my favorite ever since the D10 I started with.

It is so wide angle that people don't even realize they are in the picture, which can be fun.

I know they improved the lens greatly since I bought mine, but it seems to do the job. I never use my big zoom except for portraits, where I like the short depth of field blurred background.

Etienne said...

rhhardin said...Maybe it's been cleaned up by now.

Germany is not too bad, but France is a cesspool of graffiti. They even spray paint on the monuments. But then, they are over-run with migrants, so who knows who is making it a shithole.

Even in small towns off the main road. Fucking graffiti on concrete...

whitney said...

And here's the real reason the elites are pushing for socialism so they can get rid of this pesky middle class that can afford to travel

buwaya said...

"I have a 16-35mm lens on my Canon 20D"

I have a 10-20 on my Pentax K3

24MP so I can include everything and crop as needed. I usually crop out my feet.
That was what the old press photographers were doing with those 4x5 Speed Graphics.
Get everything with a big bulb and f/16.

JohnAnnArbor said...

Aren't these the same liberals that sneer at middle Americans for not being "well-traveled"?

The Drill SGT said...

Michael K said...
Much of Europe is dying off anyway and I don't think the Muslims do much tourist stuff.

Just driving trucks through the locals.


The first Muslim tourist excursion ended at Tours in 732. Charles, The Hammer, organized his Frankish infantry into Wedges.

The most recent Muslim excursion trip visited Vienna in 1683. The Polish Cavalry sent them home.

The next Muslim excursion is TBD.

PS: The John Ford Trilogy is worth watching just for the scenery...

BudBrown said...

Gotta toss in a Yogi-ism. Nobody goes there anymore, it's too crowded.

tim in vermont said...

I always found the out of the way places in France friendly, but you have to speak a little French. They will actually talk to you in French even if your french isn’t very good. In Paris, they switch to English instantly, like in Montreal.

The only places I ever got shit for being an American was in the west end of London and once in Scotland during the “banana cashmere” kerfuffle. In Paris, we were offered “Omaha Beach oysters” with pride, no insult. They were vraiment delicieux.

tim in vermont said...

The best at it are Australians

In Sydney, it’s kind of rude not to sit up front with the driver and talk with him. Or so a cabbie told me. Foreigners never really know the real deal.

JaimeRoberto said...

I lived in Europe for several years, so I've been fortunate enough to see much of it during the uncrowded off-season months. Now that I'm back in the States with school age kids we can only get back in the summer months, and it is shocking how crowded it is. I prefer to get off the beaten path, Caminitos del Rey in Spain, the Dordogne in France, the islands on the Croatian coast, but the wife and kids like to see the main attractions. When the kids are all grown up I look forward to being able to travel off season again.

Oh, and it's not just Europe. The Grand Canyon and Zion are mobbed in the summertime too.

Anonymous said...

stlcdr: Coupled with the fact that the locals may like being out of the tourist area may mean that you may not be very welcome, particularly if you are American (media is doing a very good job of showing how nasty America and Americans are).

No doubt there are places in Europe where this is true, but I've never personally had the "people in X hate Americans" confirmed. "Helpful, welcoming, and curious" is the general rule in the non-touristy places I get to.

In Europe, it is advised that Americans not demonstrate any outward appearances of being American.

"It is advised." By whom? Servile prog rubes have been breathlessly giving this "don't let them know you're American!" advice for decades.

It's total bullshit. I'm not surprised that the sort of Americans who pretend to be Canadian (because they're complete faggots) have bad experiences. When you're a boot-licking toad by nature, people pick up on it, and tend to treat you rudely. You don't respect yourself, why should they have any respect for you?

Are some Americans likely to arouse animosity? Sure, tourists always do. Tourists of *any* nationality who heave around in large, loud, obnoxious groups have bad reps. Trust me, there are a number of nationalities out there these days who've got us beat in this particular league table.

Michael K said...

PS: The John Ford Trilogy is worth watching just for the scenery...

That's why we are going there.

I always found the out of the way places in France friendly, but you have to speak a little French

I get out my French tapes before every trip. Ditto for German.

Or so a cabbie told me. Foreigners never really know the real deal.

I tried to tip one once.

tim in vermont said...

My European friends say that Americans are very easy to identify, mainly due to our clothing and shoes.

I was told by a couple people in Australia that if they think you are American, they will ask you if you are Canadian, because Americans think it’s funny to be mistaken for Canadians, and Canadians get insulted to be mistaken for Americans. I heard that in the UK too.

Lewis Wetzel said...

Doesn't the problem result from Europeans all taking vacations at the same time? I imagine that greece and Italy are just as beuatiful in April or May as they are in August.

mockturtle said...

Angle-Samurai, nothing infuriates me more than Americans abroad apologizing for their country.

tim in vermont said...

Nobody who knows anything about France goes there in August because the French pretty much take that month off. Maybe that’s changed, IDK.

buwaya said...

April and May in Italy can be rainy. And in some places quite cold.
Doesn't bother me, but I know (from experience) it troubles some tropical creatures.

madAsHell said...

Tourists of *any* nationality who heave around in large, loud, obnoxious groups have bad reps.

I remember being chased around the Louvre by a horde of camera snapping Japanese. Their sense of personal space is very different.

tim in vermont said...

I remember once staying in a little inn above a pub in Scotland and on the patio below was a loud mouthed crowd of Canadians, loud as any Americans, they were going on about how Canadians really invented the computer... or something like that. It was pretty funny. But to be honest, it took most of the Americans working with us a little while to quiet down while overseas. I have seen this from Brits and Aussies too at Disney World, for example.

tim in vermont said...

Now I am missing Sydney... I wonder if I am missing it enough to spend a couple days on airplanes.

Michael said...

The idea that Americans can be spotted by the way they dress is belied by the universality of ridiculous costumes adorning citizens of every country on every continent. Trainers? Check. Shorts? Check. T-shirts? Check. Tattoos? Check. Obnoxious? Check.

If you do not wish to be taken for a tourist then dress as a business person, a grown up. Put on a shirt and tie and jacket. The "heat" is not going to kill you, it really won't. You will be treated with respect. But act like a grown up. Be polite. Be what was called a gentleman or, gasp, lady.

Molly said...

(eaglebeak)

Bitching about America is a fulltime job for the Europeans, many of whom don't actually work.

Fifty years ago they were carping almost as much.

They've been in a bad mood since WWI, and with (actually) very good reason.

Michael K said...


Blogger buwaya said...
April and May in Italy can be rainy.


May and October are ideal.

Anonymous said...

Michael: The idea that Americans can be spotted by the way they dress is belied by the universality of ridiculous costumes adorning citizens of every country on every continent. Trainers? Check. Shorts? Check. T-shirts? Check. Tattoos? Check. Obnoxious? Check.

Yes, lol. From the advice handed out to insecure tourists you'd think nobody else on the planet would be caught dead in t-shirts, shorts, or gym shoes. Sorry, they're *all* going to be wandering around dressed like that.

(I won't, but only because I dress the same when I travel as I dress at home, and I don't go out in public like that at home.)

Tyrone Slothrop said...

I grew up in a town that was a destination for summer tourists. We, the locals, had nothing but contempt for those people who dressed funny and didn't know where anything was. My whole life I've refused to be a tourist. Maybe I've missed out, but at least I've kept my provincial dignity.

LincolnTf said...

Never go to Paris in the summer, the whole City smells of piss and spoiled milk whenever the temp reaches 80 degrees. Northern France is great for "real France". Seriously, it's like a 2 hour train ride to some of the nicest vinelards, cafes, villages on Earth. Why people stay in Paris is beyond me. Paris is for day-trips, well-timed.

Michael K said...

Why people stay in Paris is beyond me. Paris is for day-trips, well-timed.

Bordeaux is nicer in summer and closer to wineries. The St Catherines hotel in the old town is great. Lots of cafes.

Value priced but great location.

TestTube said...

Well, the true elites don't have this problem. Money and leisure allow you to avoid the crowds.

Journalists generally don't have the $$$ or pull or connections to get front-of-the-line privileges and the VIP tour.

eddie willers said...

If you go to the Pyramids in Egypt,

I've always liked the fact that, after settling the Egyptian civil war, Julius Caesar and Cleopatra took a vacation up the Nile to see the Pyramids.

I hope they got a pennant and some corn dogs.

wildswan said...

"walk a quarter of a mile: Find Peace"

I join the guided tours where the attraction is a specific, unknown, enormously popular place such as Gettysburg or Antietam. In a strange way, your own crowd keeps off all the others.

tcrosse said...

For badly-behaved tourists, it's hard to beat the Brits.

ccscientist said...

The problem is easily solved: just raise the hotel rates. However, I think if you discouraged the tourists Greece at least would completely collapse financially and probably Spain as well. I think it is only "certain people" who are tired of the tourists. I will admit finding it funny that Barcelona had so many drunk brits that they did have to rescind their law allowing public nudity (ie it used to be legal to be naked in town) and put up signs about being a little more polite.

mockturtle said...

For badly-behaved tourists, it's hard to beat the Brits.

Of course the Brits think the Germans are the worst tourists.

Michael K said...

I join the guided tours where the attraction is a specific,

We took a night time tour of Jack the Ripper sites in London one time.

Marcus said...

I don't travel to foreign lands as I don't want to leave my cherished AMerican rights behind.

You went to see "Cats" SEVERAL times? Ewwww. Okay, to each their own.

tcrosse said...

Of course the Brits think the Germans are the worst tourists.

It has proven hard to make them leave. Ask the Russians.

todd galle said...

I started out as a NPS ranger years ago at Gettysburg and also Valley Forge in the 80s, and have worked in museums since, so tourists and I are old pals. Dealt with some lovely Canadians at work today. My family has also traveled a fair bit, both in the US and UK. It all comes down to treating those with whom you interact as fairly intelligent individuals, even when they are not, and by that I mean ignorant rather than stupid. Many people are ignorant of US history before 1775, that doesn't make them stupid. I was embarrassed during our last family trip because I didn't think to read up on our destinations history. I thought I had enough of an historical grounding. I did, but only for a certain time frame, I was deficient in the pre and post period of my studies. I don't understand pretending not to be an American at all. Most of the service industry in western Europe is Eastern, and they don't hate Americans. I bought my last kilt in Edinburgh from a gorgeous Czech girl who seemed to want to help the ignorant American with his buckles. Thankfully, my wife was off looking for a tea shop.

FullMoon said...

Uh, the reason they are most popular is because they have the most tourists.
If they were not stuffed to the gills, they would not be most popular.


"Nobody goes there anymore, it's too crowded."

Kelly said...

My husband and I were stationed in Germany in the early 90’s. Two years ago we took our 18 year old daughter to Germany and I can’t begin to tell you how much fun it was and how much it meant to us. I think most moving was our trip to Dacha, but it was so much fun to go find the apartment we use to live in and walk the paths we always walked the dog at. We went in December when tourism is low. The Christmas markets were fun. The night we were at the Frankfurt Christmas market was the night the truck plowed through the Berlin market. Sobering indeed.

glenn said...

Just learn how to ask for the check, you’ll be fine.

Oso Negro said...

@Etienne - No, at the Pyramids, the best move is to quickly buy something from Mr. One Dolla and then loudly offer to sell it to all the other One Dollas for Only Five Dollas. It's high entertainment for all.

Nicholas said...

Michael K said, "Dubrovnik is a pretty walled town and was once a rival city state to Venice". True, but unfortunately it now rivals Venice for tourist density: like Venice is suffers from the regular arrival of massive floating holiday complexes (laughably self-identifying as "cruise ships") which disgorge 3,000+ tourists in one go. Go up the coast to Split instead.

brylun said...

Hey Althouse, the Louve is much better than the Chicago Art Institute. Not to mention the Musee D'Orange.

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Etienne said...

brylun said......the Louve is much better than the Chicago Art Institute.

Yea, but you have to go to a foreign country, and have government clerks run their hands all over your body at the gulag ports of embarkation.

mockturtle said...

and have government clerks run their hands all over your body at the gulag ports of embarkation.

Woo-hoo! ;-)

BJM said...

The problem with Europe in August is the Europeans themselves. The entire month of August is a holiday in most European countries and everyone heads to the beach or the mountains. Much of what you might want to visit is closed for the above reason and it is awash in European vacationers, most hauling caravans. They like to camp in large numbers, cheek and jowl. I don't get it, but then I can't explain the attraction of the Jersey shore either.

I agree with Michael K and buwaya, April and May in Italy when everything is green and clean is just about perfect. We also enjoy late Sept-mid Oct. in Northern Italy and Vienna.

We never visit Venice in the summer; it's sheer mayhem. Go in January, before Carnevale, it's cold and damp, so may not appeal to snow bunnies seeking warmth. However, the hotels are warm & cozy and cost a fraction of summer rates. There are very few tourists and you can ruminate over hot chocolate in a snug cafe or a glass of wine in a bacari (a small wine bar). Venice is a series of villages/neighborhoods, each with its own personality, that are lost in the summer crush. It's very quiet, especially at night, only the occasional splash as someone missteps. Venice in the fog is magical, one can almost hear the voices of the past.

Sorry didn't mean to go on a travelogue rant.

Robert Catesby said...

RE: "Who are the right people to travel? The NYT doesn't want to say the elite... but I bet it's what they think."
I agree.

RE: "Disneyfication"
That's not a term I would use. I have family that live in Europe, and so we travel there often. Europe is filled with once-great countries that are clearly in decline. A major source of income is tourism, where they get to market their history. But nothing can disguise the fact that Europe is crumbling.