"Until then, he reliably provided the pleasure of exaggerated self-recognition, reflecting life but with palpable structure and better punch lines. In the theater, the shared assumptions between the playwright and his very homogeneous late-century audience — largely white and urban, often Jewish or at least Jewish-adjacent — had the redoubling effect necessary to raucous comedy.... In the late ’60s and early ’70s, as independent films were diversifying their outlook and shaking off the formulas of Hollywood storytelling, Broadway boulevard comedies like 'Last of the Red Hot Lovers' and 'California Suite' — tales of the befuddled nouveau riche in a new world — began to look mass-produced and middlebrow.... Sometimes, in the way that can happen when writers momentarily grab the tail of the zeitgeist, the laughs were even prescient.... [The plays] may be unjust to the harridans, simps and playthings he stocks them with but they tell a real story of male collapse that was relevant to the culture at the time they were first produced, and might still hold up better than the later, more 'serious' works. I think I understood that back in high school when, putting on my father’s clothes [to play a minor role in 'The Odd Couple'], I saw how poorly they fit. These kinds of men were already under siege, as everyone in 'The Odd Couple' sensed without saying so. Which somehow made the laughs even bigger."
From "Neil Simon Drew Big Laughs, Then Came a Cultural Shift" by Jesse Green (NYT).
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Simon's death represents a loss to America. McCain's not so much. The wrong person will be giving more accolades than are deserved. Maybe AR will get a new set of federal senators more faithful to the Article VI oath.
they tell a real story of male collapse that was relevant to the culture at the time
Things just went on like always in science and math.
Maybe the male collapse refers to hanging out at NOW meetings to pick up babes.
As Willie Sutton said, that's where the banks are.
McCain didn't want Trump to speak at his funeral. Trump sees right through McCain.
Imdb lists a lot of Neil Simon films. None were particular favorites.
His stuff aged like Woody Allen's, but started aging sooner.
I guess it turns out that if you write about insecurity, a fact of the human condition, and then a long march through the institutions bears fruit and one engineers a cultural shift, that the security you were writing about becomes “prescient” and your death will be used to advance the project.
I just saw Crazy Rich Asians and it was a funny movie, like Arthur, but different, the rich guy had his shit together, and all I can figure out is that the racism that seemed to hold back movies like this is in the power elite in Hollywood and the racism shown in the movie was from upper crust New York, the same kinds of people keeping Asians out of Harvard. I don’t believe it was racism of the audiences. We all thought Flower Drum Song was great until the narrative shifted, I guess. Maybe if one of those stories about the movie talked about power elite structural racism against Asians, I might take it seriously as genuine analysis.
But in both cases, if you bring and obsession to everything you think about, you will find your obsession in everything you see. Like: ”Today I’m one of those queers who can find a narrative about sexuality in anything.”
rhhardin said...
McCain didn't want Trump to speak at his funeral.
Trump should respect McCain's wishes, go to the funeral and remain respectfully silent the whole time.
While live-tweeting the event.
Trump should just send Pence, like he does for minor despot deaths somewhere in the world.
More of the "That's not funny" time. The author is reveling in the slow removal of respect for straight white male leadership in culture . It is like a cackling victory lap for whatever has replaced Patriarchs as the new thing that must not be ridiculed. I suppose we could mark that tipping point with Blazing Saddles.
Half a dozen years ago I watched The Goodbye Girl for the first time. It was probably the first Neil Simon scripted movie I had seen since the movie adaptation of Biloxi Blues came out -- which would have been mid-80s.
It was excruciating.
Disinviting Trump showed that McCain didn't understand being a man. Which also showed up in his voting.
The Goodbye Girl doesn't hold up so well because it feels like it was written quickly for film--which it was. His best work, such as the Odd Couple, is still very funny and his later plays are really very good. And why are we talking about Trump and McCain here?
Weirdly, really weirdly, Richard Dreyfus won an Oscar for Goodbye Girl. He beat Woody Allen as Alvy Singer in Annie Hall. Also nominated: Richard Burton, Marcello Mastroianni, and John Travolta for Saturday Night Fever.
1977 was a really weird year. That was also the year of Star Wars.
Trump and McCain are men, variously.
the new York times, is always clueless in these matters, they preferred woody allen's morose neuroticism, (he was transitioning from his funny neuroticism)
He was reliably entertaining. The jokes were funny. The big dramatic scenes weren't that memorable, or, anyway, I don't remember them. I do remember, however, that the comedy was leavened with big dramatic scenes.......He provided steady work for a lot of actors, and no one was changed for the worse by watching his shows. He banked a lot of positive karma
News reports the flags at the White House at full staff.
No fake tributes from Trump.
Trump will be at McCain’s funeral even if he isn’t there. Eulogists George W. Bush and Barack Hussein Obama are at their desks even as I speak, trying to craft the perfect Trump-hate coded line that the MSM will go with the next day. Perhaps the MSM is working on their own hidden snark line to send in advance to Bush and Obama.
Either way, Trump will be in that casket, giving McCain a goodbye kiss.
woody allen’s morose neuroticism
It’s still funny, the jokes though are more deadpan than Pat Paulson, if you don’t get them, he isn’t going to nudge you with a drum roll. I have to respect him for this. I just watched something he did for Amazon, Wonder Wheel, and it had some funny stuff in there, but there were no little pointers to tell you they were jokes.
Of course I used to really enjoy some of Kurt Vonnegut’s crazier novels, assuming, on the strength of Welcome to the Monkey House and Cat’s Cradle that he must have been writing ironically, and it was really funny. I was shocked to hear him spout his real views later in life, and to find out that he had been serious. So maybe they are not jokes in Woody Allen’s films, but I think they are. The bit about critiquing the painting in Midnight in Paris was funny, but nobody else in the theatre thought so.
Wonder Wheel could certainly be produced as a play on Broadway. It’s kind of like Long Day’s Journey into Night.
I liked sleeper, bananas, and take the money and run, after that he becomes unbearable, certainly a niche audience, by contrast simon had a rather large and vast one, lets not drag the rockem sockem robots in here,
Maybe I'm 'Jewish-adjacent' but I found The Odd Couple hilariously funny [I've only seen the film version]. Tail of the zeitgeist or not, I still find it funny.
Blogger rhhardin said...
they tell a real story of male collapse that was relevant to the culture at the time
Things just went on like always in science and math.
The days of Science and Math are numbered, at least as long as numbers are still used.
“Instead of calculating engine horsepower or microchip power/size ratios or aerodynamic lift and drag, the engineering educationists focus on group representation, hurt feelings, and ‘microaggressions’ in the profession,” Wichman adds.TONI AIRAKSINEN, “‘SOCIAL JUSTICE WARRIORS’ ARE RUINING ENGINEERING, PROF WARNS” AT CAMPUS REFORM
We didn’t know that engineering had a soft underbelly. We know this though:
Somewhere in the near future, we will be hearing a plaintive cry go up, after a string of “peoplekind”-caused disasters (that no one is allowed to discuss honestly), “Is there someplace out there that we can go, in order to hire a real engineer?”
When the next pedestrian bridge collapses, we'll know who to look for.
"he was standing just over a gap in American culture".
I watched Barefoot in the Park (1967) Jane Fonda / Robert Redford trying to remember Neil Simon. In a way, the whole thing we have now is there already. Excruciating describes it - Fonda is appalling. Of course, I loathe Hanoi Jane anyhow. But I wonder if anybody these days could see her as funny in this role. Throwing out the husband who pays the rent into the winter streets while he is sick - why is that amusing? Realizing you shouldn't do that - is that an epiphany? Self-centered women who justify being self-centered are not all that funny any more - more of a menace. Smirking Jane is horrible anyhow.
How sad for Neil Simon. People take the occasion of his death to weigh the pros and cons of Woody Allen. Bad enough that he has to die on the same day as a national hero and a mass shooting. Well, he had a fortunate life and a long one. You can't always die at the absolute optimum moment.......Still, if I could give one single bit of advice for people in the entertainment industry it would be to die young while you're gripping the mane of the zeitgeist rather than sweeping up the trail end of said zeitgeist.
Simon's comedy will endure, will seth rogen's doubtful, just like with mel brooks, I thought the producers was a little overdone moments, a little too inside broadway,
How sad for Neil Simon.
I don’t think he cares.
I thought the producers was a little overdone moments
If you got it, flaunt it!
Neil Simon was a writer out of a more virtuous age.
His innocent little comedies aged away because the audience was corrupted.
He outlived his audience.
As for "Flower Drum Song", it helps a bit to have read the novel by C.Y.Lee
This is a true San Francisco novel (I read all the true San Francisco novels I can), a story of a very particular time and place and people. Liu was the real thing, a journalist for the Chinese-language Chinatown press, and the thing is drawn from life, as is the Rodgers&Hammerstein musical.
The thing is, that place and those people, the FOB (Fresh off the Boat) Chinese, are still there. They are still in Grant avenue, and many, many more streets, with their herbalists and Tongs, mutual aid societies and groceries, their battling Taiwan and Red China and US flags, their illegal immigrants and arranged marriages, and that same clash of cultures and assimilation angst. Even the laundry on the fire escapes. Its real.
I don't think there is a Rodgers&Hammerstein musical better grounded in reality.
Its not PC these days, but thats not because it isn't true. It is an uncomfortable piece for modern liberal audiences that mostly are not Chinese, out of some weird anxiety about how Chinese might take it the wrong way. It is a neuroticism I don't understand.
Its not PC these days, but thats not because it isn't true. It is an uncomfortable piece for modern liberal audiences that mostly are not Chinese, out of some weird anxiety about how Chinese might take it the wrong way. It is a neuroticism I don't understand.
Exactly so, buwaya. Libs have their own notions of how ethnic groups [and genders] are supposed to think and act. And if they don't, well...
Simon's outlook is reflective of a very localized culture, New York Jewish. That's fine as far as it goes but it never went far with me because it was so alien to my experience. Where I came from men did not talk, think, feel, or act as the men in Simon's plays; or in Woody Allen's movies for that matter. There's a certain henpecked insecure humblebrag quality to these men that I always found and still do find very strange and not a little offputting. They seem in some way sexless, emasculated, and weak -- but, deep down, convinced of their own innate and ultimate superiority. Such characters were a dominant type in Hollywood sitcoms and commercials of the era, the flustered bumbling bemused ineffective male, and not coincidentally the writers of those sitcoms, a disproportionate number of them, were Jewish men from the New York Jewish cultural milieu.
Consoling to know that I will not get NYTimes obituary after I die.
His passing reminds me how funny "The Odd Couple" was and how much I despise anything with Alan Alda in it.
Neil Simon was OK. He was just so - conventional. He didn't have the spark of Genius that Mel Brooks or Woody Allen has.
I always enjoy: The Sunshine Boys, Murder by Death, and Biloxi Blues. Because the actors add alot. Much of his better known 60s and 70s stuff hasn't aged well.
It seems astounding that something like the "Goodbye Girl" was ever nominated for an Oscar. Does anyone even remember it?
The Odd Couple.
I always thought the TV show was better than the movie.
It seems comics all live forever, unless they're fat drunks, drug users or crazy.
I thought the opening of the Goodbye Girl was hilarious. Richard III. Haven't seen Murder by Death. Will rent it today.
Roughcoat observes: They seem in some way sexless, emasculated, and weak -- but, deep down, convinced of their own innate and ultimate superiority.
Did Allen not satirize that very experience in Annie Hall?
"It is an uncomfortable piece for modern liberal audiences that mostly are not Chinese, out of some weird anxiety about how Chinese might take it the wrong way. It is a neuroticism I don't understand."
It's anxiety for their own entertainment self-congratulation.
Did Allen not satirize that very experience in Annie Hall?
I think he did. He personified it even as he satirized it. Which is typical of it.
The Original Broadway cast of The Odd Couple were Walter Matthau and Art Carney. It is said that from time to time they would switch roles just to keep it fresh.
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