A more accurate headline would be a question, "Why do people like Trump?," not what looks like a promise to answer that question. Elite media people like Cohen should finally come around to asking the question humbly, confessing to their abject failure even to admit that they've needed to ask it and rejecting their imperious concentration on telling people what they should think. Look at all these reasons to loathe Trump. Come on, you idiots, you're embarrassing yourselves by not loathing him yet. It hasn't worked, and yet you continue to do it.
Cohen has exactly one sentence that tries to say why people like Trump, and it's incredibly weak:
My guess is that it’s a low-boil rage against a vague and threatening liberalism — urbane, educated, affluent, secular, diverse and sexually tolerant.Yes, yes, I know. You're so sure you and your friends are the good people. Your unshakeable love for yourself and your friends is glaringly evident, as usual. By the way, if the Trumpsters are raging against the sexually tolerant, why are they they tolerating Trump's sexual behavior?
With the groundwork of that one lazy sentence, Cohen leaps to: "It is, in other words, some of the same sentiment that once fueled European fascism."
Some of the same... This column is some of the same bland but hysterical lameness I've been reading about Trump for years. And yet it's #1 on WaPo's "most read" list. To give WaPo readers some credit, maybe they, like me, saw the headline and believed that someone at the newspaper was finally going to get serious and go deep in trying to understand how people really think and feel in the America that lies beyond the Northeast.
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382 comments:
1 – 200 of 382 Newer› Newest»How about: People like Trump because they agree with him on policy.
There's a poetic challenge in toeing the party line too, so you can have good writers doing it. The poetry doesn't work outside the party, however, and it just looks stupid. But that's not the audience.
for in probable edit from faith to love.
He is mistaking tolerating for love.
I guaran - damn - tee were tTrump pushing open borders, sending pallets of cash to Iran, adding regulation after regulation to all manner of life, putting his finger on the scales of justice against normal people, men in education, brown energy, and working class jobs, the howls from middle America would be truly deafening.
That is, you twit, we tolerate Trump for the exact reasons we got Trump: What you want is abhorrent to a lot of people.
he failed to show faith in our intelligence community
Cohen missed his own lead.
Why do people like Woodward and Bernstein?
Those guys too failed to show faith.
The establishment Cohen belongs to and defends is unsinkable. Like the Titanic. That way, not like Molly Brown.
He's unable to measure the dimensions of that iceberg they hit. In fact, he's really unable to concede to himself that the iceberg ever really existed in the first place. He still hasn't really seen the thing. Still, there's a strange contagion in DC running the country now through some breach in the hull.
It's hard to admit that some people are cheering as they see you sink into the sunset, while the folks dispatched to pump out the bilge and restore the bulkheads are being chucked out of the FBI every time you look up. It's puzzling, I'm sure.
People like Trump because they don't like Cohen.
"some of the same sentiment that once fueled European fascism"
Kind of like how some of the sentiments of the modern American left are the same one that once fueled... wait for it... once fueled.... СOMMUNISM!1!!1!!☭
Cohen would see right through the fallacy in the second comment, but keeps walking right into the fallacy in the first.
There's enough hating on deplorables and fluffing of the righteous leftie to help WaPo readers get through another day, a little bit of winning hearts and minds, a little bit of threat to gather the herd. Reads more like one of those columns put together before they headed out on vacation to MV or Maine.
What will they do if none of this shit works anymore?
Nazi support was based on common decencies, love of family and country, kindness to animals.
Evil is not so easily spotted as people think. It takes intellectual effort.
he failed to show faith in our intelligence community
This is an obligation of the office? What ever happened to question authority?
Bill Maher did this stand up thing in Oklahoma where he was going to explain to the rubes that Trump was a con artist and that he and the elites in NYC/Boston/DC really have their best interests at heart. Of course nobody is allowed to answer back, ask him to honestly answer any questions. Imagine Maher sitting for an hour listening to people explain to him why Obama was a con man. “If you like your doctor...” “Hope” “Yes we can!”
Come on.
"Yes, yes, I know. You're so sure you and your friends are the good people. Your unshakeable love for yourself and your friends is glaringly evident, as usual. By the way, if the Trumpsters are raging against the sexually tolerant, why are they they tolerating Trump's sexual behavior?"
Good
Everyone is sick of the left including Cohen and Republican elite's smug attitude that they know better than everyone, and are better than everyone. They are tired of BS political correctness, and lack of candor. For example, let's be honest, if these were not shithole countries people wouldn't be leaving.
Trump may be an ass, but he is a straight shooter, and as it has turned out his bluster actually is effective, he gets his message out by forcing the media to cover what he says. People also have a sense that Trump does what works, and he is tireless.
In popular culture, the intelligence community is always the villain. Sometimes it is out of decadence (John Le Carre), or ignorant confidence (Graham Green, 48 Hours), or pathological ambition (The Bourne Series), or simple corruption.
People like Trump for the same reason people liked Hitler. Got it.
I'm confused. Weren't the Nazis "urbane, educated, affluent, [and] secular," at least? Also diverse and sexually tolerant for some definitions of those terms, if not the definitions Cohen intends.
If they're going to try to look for similarities between the resentments that gave rise to Nazis and the resentments that gave rise to Trump, perhaps they could make an analogy between the Versailles Treaty and a bunch of internationalist treaties (like the Paris Accords and the UN) that transfer wealth from the U.S. to the third world....
It's weak, but at least it would make *some* sense.
Cohen is clueless. Today’s Liberalism is an abject and objective failure.
I love Trump because he gets stuff done. He is a man of deeds. He is fearless. He puts America first. He has a great team. And he’s not Crooked Hillary.
They are not willing to make the concessions necessary to answer the question. For instance, they might have to concede that they really enjoy relatively cheap imported luxury goods and that their life is much sweeter for them if certain Americans who just couldn’t get into the right schools, lazy stupid bastards, lose their jobs.
Plus nobody likes it when the help get uppity.
My guess is that it’s a low-boil rage against a vague and threatening liberalism — urbane, educated, affluent, secular, diverse and sexually tolerant.
It's actually complete frustration with a Left that has rejected true liberalism for an urban, overly educated, corrupt, atheistic, monolithic and sexually obsessed ideology based on group rights and Marxism.
"he failed to show faith in our intelligence community"
Why should we "show faith" in our intelligence community, or any government institution? It's not about "faith," it's about them demonstrating to us the quality of their work.
The intelligence community spies on us and lies to us. Whey should we (the people) view them with anything other than suspicion, distrust, disbelief, and contempt?
Any time anyone says we should "show faith" in our (purported) representatives, you know they're trying to con you.
Fascists were statists who believed in central control of the economy and a supreme role for the state in the lives of the people. Cohen is a statist who believes in central control of the economy and a supreme role for the state in the lives of the people. That’s why he and people like him are so freaked out that they have lost full control over the levers of power. To them, the state is. all. They are not like those of us who can shrug it off when our side loses control of the government and just go on with our lives. To them that is completely illogical.
People are exquisitely good at building themselves cognitive firewalls. It seems to me that at this point, "liking" this president is to decline to face a set of glaring realities.
The Left is openly rejecting liberalism in the name of Progressivism, one of the most pernicious ideologies in history. The Progressives fucked things up the first time around, and are absolutely enraged that they can't do so again.
When the Left finally wakes up (Hopefully after getting swamped this November) they will once again reject the Progressive label and attempt to reclaim the liberal label (again). They keep mistaking a rejection of their ideology as bad branding and marketing.
We will make a libertarian out of Robert yet. The state shouldn’t have that much power. "Welcome to the party pal.”
Elites still think the cool kids in the high school Student Council had the student bodies interest first.
Funny wasn't Cohen in support of Trump's Helsinki trip.
People are exquisitely good at building themselves cognitive firewalls. It seems to me that at this point, “liking” this president is to decline to face a set of glaring realities.. - Snark
Well, to make progress in convincing people of this “fact” Snark, why don’t you give us a couple of reasons that people might like Trump that don’t have to do with your opinion that we are abjectly stupid and utterly delusional?
My guess is that it’s a low-boil rage against a vague and threatening liberalism — urbane, educated, affluent, secular, diverse and sexually tolerant.
Well guess again moron. Geeez, these people are stupid. Aggressively stupid and devoid of self reflection or knowledge.
I enjoyed listening to Maron and Sedaris last night (my preordered copy of his latest just finally shipped), but when they talk about politics it is surreal. They live in some alternate universe. Cohen's universe.
Blogger Gretchen said...”Trump may be an ass, but he is a straight shooter, and as it has turned out his bluster actually is effective, he gets his message out by forcing the media to cover what he says. People also have a sense that Trump does what works, and he is tireless.”
Gretchen should write for the Washington Post instead of Cohen. Their readers would learn more and it would save a lot of trees.
Snark can’t answer that question because he is far too hemmed in by his cognitive firewalls.
The simpler answer is Trump is likeable enough.
People like Trump because they believe his boorish, crude, contemptuous, childish language and acting out proves he's a "straight-shooter."
And because they're like him, (boorish, crude, contemptuous, and childish).
Blogger tim in vermont said...”We will make a libertarian out of Robert yet. The state shouldn’t have that much power. "Welcome to the party pal.””
No. For reasons beyond understanding, he trusts the other arms of government.
“You’ve got to really examine the flyover states,” said Anthony Scaramucci, the former White House communications director. “They couldn’t care less about what happened in Russia. They love this guy, they think this guy’s for them. These are low information emotional voters and they like what they see in the president. They think he’s working for them.”
Quoted in the Guardian.
And because they're like him, (boorish, crude, contemptuous, and childish).
In other words, deplorables.
Cohen, and the folks he's writing for, is on a trip to the zoo and inquiring as to the location of the great apes exhibit. Yet he fails, refuses really, to follow the directions he's given.
-sw
I don’t think that Trump is actually contemptuous, that’s more a word for Obama. Bitter clingers anybody?
Today’s story is a perfect example of why I love (not like) Trump. Brennan goes on TV and says Trump has committed treason. So Trump wants to revoke his security clearance. All sorts of whining about how this President punishes his enemies. Well, duh, yeah. His enemies are trying to impeach him. But when Barack talked about bringing a gun to a knife fight, he was a great President.
Robert Cook said...
People like Trump because they believe his boorish, crude, contemptuous, childish language and acting out proves he's a "straight-shooter."
And because they're like him, (boorish, crude, contemptuous, and childish).
You forgot deplorable.
Also, you have no idea why people like Trump. I thought you were smarter.
He is boorish and crude, and possibly a bit childish.
tim in vermont said...
He is boorish and crude, and possibly a bit childish.
Hint: We like him despite this.
Look at the pictures in your wallet. Odds on you'll find Andy Jackson and his hair. Andy has the best song too.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mjXM6x_0KZk
There is a constant effort to label Trump, his supporters and the Right as fascists. Yet where is all of the political violence coming from? Which side promotes racialism and group identity and which promotes individualism? Which side promotes governmental control of industry and the economy and which supports free market capitalism? Which side promotes free speech and which side imposes speech and thought codes?
Hint: We like him despite this.
Exactly, and we like him because he is not contemptuous. Cohen is contemptuous, Snark is contemptuous. Not Trump. Trump just doesn’t buy their bullshit about “What is good for the coastal elites is good for the country.” He is contemptuous of that.
David Begley said...
"Today’s story is a perfect example of why I love (not like) Trump. Brennan goes on TV and says Trump has committed treason. So Trump wants to revoke his security clearance. All sorts of whining about how this President punishes his enemies."
They won't need their security clearances in prison.
Tank said:
"He is boorish and crude, and possibly a bit childish.
Hint: We like him despite this."
Hint#2: We like him because he is effective.
-sw
One day, some of the smarter liberals are going to figure out that arguing Trump’s side is more fun. Once they shuff off the intellectual coil of such a strong need to belong to a cultural elite.
Nothing breeds contempt for the elites more than familiarity, BTW, so maybe it’s that Trump is contemptuous of our “elites.” If that is what Robert Cook means by contemptuous, I would have to pronounce Trump guilty as charged.
"you have no idea why people like Trump"
Well, I suppose they also like him because he doesn't play the typical Washington game. Which is valid. But that isn't enough.
Someone above said "because he's effective."
Effective, how? What are his positive accomplishments?
I suspect, Althouse, that the combination of 200+ comments on this page will provide a kind of collective answer as to why some people like Trump. We should only bear in mind that the correct formulation is, "Why some people like Trump." Because while some people like Trump, some people loathe Trump. And just as in much of his business life, Trump's margin of "liking" over "loathing" is tiny and rather fragile. And always exaggerated by Trump himself.
Paco wove,
Yes, communism.
But there is even more similarities between progressivism or, as som miscall it "liberalism" and fascism than with communism.
John Henry
I mean that Trump is contemptuous of anyone who disagrees with him or whom he perceives as weaker than him.
Some corrections are in order: "a vague and threatening liberalism — [urbane] condescending, [educated] credentialed, affluent, [secular] hostile to religion, [diverse] understanding of only one way to understand the world and sexually [tolerant] licentious." There, now the phrase states things correctly.
Cook, in no particular order,
Health care
Economy
Manufacturing
Jobs
Trade
Border
North Korea (we'll see)
And more
John Henry
I suspect, Althouse, that the combination of 200+ comments on this page will provide a kind of collective answer as to why some people like Trump.
Which I expect you and your buddies in the GOP Establishment to ignore, just as you have been ignoring the Republican base and the American people for decades. Your pals on the Left and in the MSM will to, but frankly we expect that from them. After all, it takes a certain amount of willingness to ignore facts and evidence to be on the Left today.
We should only bear in mind that the correct formulation is, "Why some people like Trump."
No...for you, the GOP Establishment and the Left the question is: "How could anybody possibly reject us in favor of Trump?".
Because while some people like Trump, some people loathe Trump.
Just as they loathed Romney, Dole, McCain, all of the Bushes, Reagan, Nixon, Goldwater, etc. when they were running for office. There is absolutely nothing new about the treatment of Trump. It is merely an expansion of the Left's SOP.
And just as in much of his business life, Trump's margin of "liking" over "loathing" is tiny and rather fragile. And always exaggerated by Trump himself.
Actually one of the most refreshing things about Trump is that he isn't constantly seeking the approval of the GOP Establishment, the Left and the MSM like he is "supposed" to.
I mean that Trump is contemptuous of anyone who disagrees with him or whom he perceives as weaker than him.
Keep working, dig a little deeper. We have an elite now that is contemptuous of our working class. “America is already great!” The owning class is doing great, because they make money whether the work gets done in the US under our labor norms, or in China or Viet Nam under theirs! It’s the deplorables who can’t just relocate to where the jobs are fast enough who are the barnacles our on wonderful economy!
I also don’t think that Trump takes on the weak. Trump takes on the strong. You are just in denial about who is really strong in our economy. Hint: They have a strong belief that American is already great and think that the corruption of the Clintons is upstanding American ruling class behavior.
AllenS said...
People like Trump because they don't like Cohen.
7/24/18, 6:38 AM
This takes in about 90% of the reasoning. If pencil necked prissy's like Cohen, are so against somebody the target of their loathing must be OK. So what about Cohen? what of his positions do I support??? What does Cohen fight against that I find important? In this instance, I support the Presidents positions, Cohen is against ALL of those positions. (all? He list no agreements with the President)
I listened to some. better than me, intellectual attempting to trap an Evengelical into admitting the the President was bad...how could he???
The man very calmly explained, that yes he wished the President lived a life closer to his own, but when it came down to choosing between a person and party that are actively and sometimes violently opposed to Judeo/Christian values, and President Trump who admitts to be a man that has failed in his faith, He will always pick the person that is not seeking the total distruction of his faith.
President Trump may be a string of contradictions, if the differences from you is all you seek to find, but in the end, I know the President truly is working for the best interest of the Nation, and not attempting to build a personal legacy, he has already done that.
it’s that Trump is contemptuous of our “elites.”
And what rational person isn't?
some people loathe Trump.
You know Chuck, you might make more progress if you could acknowledge that Trump addresses issues for working Americans that the GOP and the Democrat Party have roundly ignored, then you could explain why, absent Trump, that stuff will change for the better for Americans in the future.
JK LOL! I know you can’t do that. Sorry for asking...
Is it really too much to ask that Cohen and the rest of his ilk leave their bubbles and actually go out into American and ask a reasonably large cross-section of Trump supporters why they support Trump?
Isn't it about time we see articles, even op-ed articles, with a full on red-blooded defense of Americans for Trump and all that he has done and wants to do despite the many shenanigans of the Democrats and deep state. Also, how he has improved the lives of non-white Americans too.
If you get a chance go listen to David J. Harris, Jr. on YouTube. A black American proudly for Trump.
Here's what they're missing. It's not any one thing.
1. There are the people, women included, who didn't like Hillary personally.
2. There are the people, who didn't like the crooked history of the Clinton family.
3. There are the people, after seeing us elect Bush, who didn't want another Clinton in the White House.
4. There are the politically savvy who see a woman who toppled Gadhafi without just cause and blamed her weakness in protecting our official representative there on a YouTube video saw by a dozen people.
5. There are people who remembered the Republicans promising pinky-swear that they'll kill Obamacare in the 2012 mid-terms, only to turn around THE DAY AFTER THE ELECTION and say "You fucked up, voters, you trusted us."
6. There are the people who saw Obama protect the banksters who crashed the economy in 2008, literally telling them that he's between them and the pitchforks.
7. There are the people who wonder why asking that enforcing the current immigration laws makes them racist.
8. There are the people who were called "bitter clingers" by the Democratic Party wondering why they should continue voting for them.
9. Then there's the stupid stuff the Hillary campaign did by rejecting Clinton's advice (yes, I despise the man, but he knows politics. Also, Hillary ignored her own advisors and did not campaign in Michigan and Minnesota.
10. The existence of the internet allows for the free transmission of memory, reminding us that we've been lied to repeated by our betters, and they can't see that we see through their lies. And while the number of people in this cohort is pretty small, I'll bet we can be pretty vocal about this before our families and friends.
So it's not just any one reason. It's a lot of reasons.
All they can do is keep lying to us.
These days people say that they are against populism when what they really mean is that they are against Democracy. You can't be in the vanguard of social progress and represent the Will of the People. The Bolsheviks didn't succeed because the people were behind them, the Bolsheviks succeeded because the military backed them.
he failed to show faith in our intelligence community
THIS *IS* the reason they hate Trump.
Woodard and Bernstein mindlessly parroted what our intelligence community leaked to them
Joe McCarthy was crucified for implying that our intelligence community was full of Reds
our intelligence community WAS full of Reds, and they LOVE Reds!
Valerie Plame and her hubby ARE in our intelligence community
Stupid Republicans think that just because they win elections, they should be able to govern.
Smart Washington KNOWS that our intelligence community is who Really governs. Interference with our intelligence community is TREASON! And an Impeachable Offense!!
Trump calls into question their fiction-absolutes.
"The term was coined and defined by journalist Tom Wolfe in his 2006 Jefferson Lecture for the National Endowment for the Humanities.[1] Wolfe defined the term as the propaganda that a tribe or social group employs to explain why that group is the best of all groups and its people the best people. The term itself indicates that it is absolutist in that it defines in stark terms why members should prefer that tribe, and necessarily fictional because it is propaganda, although it might have some basis in truth. The fiction-absolute is essentially a tribe's core propaganda. It can lead to intolerance and forms of collective action.
The fiction-absolute not only necessitates a harsh view of other groups, but also unaffiliated people and individualists."
"My guess is that it’s a low-boil rage against a vague and threatening liberalism — urbane, educated, affluent, secular, diverse and sexually tolerant."
That self-assessment is truly a thing of beauty. Yes, Richard, you've got our number; that's exactly what's bothering us.
"It is, in other words, some of the same sentiment that once fueled European fascism."
Ah, Richard - this is derivative: "The America which Europe fears is the America of the Reaganites...The Reaganites on the floor (in Detroit) were exactly those who in Germany gave the Nazis their main strength and who in France collaborated with them and sustained Vichy." - Henry Fairlie, The Washington Post, 1980.
As shrill and monotonous as much of the criticism of Trump is, it's also accurate. That journalists and citizens and observers seem to fling it over and over like monkey poo has much more to do with the impervious nature of its target than the limitations of the flingers. Stop waiting for journalists to do something much more effective than what they're already doing. They can't. The vast majority aren't narcissistic sociopaths like the President, and thus are unlikely to overwhelm the long, manipulative con he's pulling. All they can really do is repeat themselves, provide context and continue to document his destructive and dangerous behaviour. It's quite literally their job to do that, not to bang their heads against the wall trying to breach the cognitive firewalls of the conned.
In my experience, foreign policy thinkers tend to be out of step with a lot of what’s going on in their own countries. So are a lot of professors
Cohen found an audience at the Atlantic bashing Trump and trying to push the discussion towards his foreign policy preferences.
What he may be finding is that both parties have broken apart, our institutions are incredibly weak and over-built, people are very sensitive to to any authority, and The Atlantic has gone down the garden lane of activist Leftism and fantasy.
The public discussion may.need something else, nitwit
The elites are irrelevent now.
Americans love Trump for being our new Jacksonian leader. Trump has proven to us for years now that he is honest with us.
And incidentally, Trump is also a winning fighter who is tough as Hickory that will go down fighting before he will leave us behind and sell us out to the enemy for money.
And that loyal style is not "incidental", It is everything. The world's watching it too. And that trust in Trump's leadership style has flipped Kim Jong Um, the Saudi King, Vlad Putin, Wall Street and soon Iran. He has also cemented Israel back into our alliance.
"Nearly all of it is about all the things that seemingly should have already made everyone loathe Trump — he said "shithole countries," Which they are, as progs themselves assume when they plead for illegals to be allowed to stay, because sending them back would be cruel. And course, the whole shithole kerfuffle was ginned up by Dick Durbin to screw Trump. Since most of are not Dick Durbin Republicans, our response is : f** that.
"he probably committed adultery" We settled that a generation ago with Billy Jeff. Dems taught us not to care, so we don't. Sure, it would be nice to have gentleman in the White House. We tried that: but Bush was vilified as BusHitler, and uber-gentleman Romney for pulling someone's hair in high school. So f** that.
"he failed to show faith in our intelligence community" You mean, the geniuses and Gus Hall voters who told us all about the WMDs in Iraq, the preparations for 9/11, the "Russian meddling" and so on? The ones who weaponized intelligence to attack an American campaign and a new president? F** them.
"Elite media people like Cohen should finally come around to asking the question humbly, confessing to their abject failure even to admit that they've needed to ask it and rejecting their imperious concentration on telling people what think." They should, shouldn't they. Nice thought. But they don't do humble. Imperiousness is progressivism's MO. They do know better, you know. They are the Anointed. F** them.
"Cohen has exactly one sentence that tries to say why people like Trump, and it's incredibly weak: My guess is that it’s a low-boil rage against a vague and threatening liberalism — urbane, educated, affluent, secular, diverse and sexually tolerant." Ah yes, the deplorables "rage"--not Antifa, not the Women's March, not James Hodgkinson, not John Brennan, but the flyover yahoos threatened by "vague" liberalism, vague in the way it mandates mandates, imposes SSM edicts, goes after energy companies, takes over the MSM and the higher ed, and so on, and so forth. F** that.
"Yes, yes, I know. You're so sure you and your friends are the good people. Your unshakeable love for yourself and your friends is glaringly evident, as usual. By the way, if the Trumpsters are raging against the sexually tolerant, why are they they tolerating Trump's sexual behavior?" Althouse is right, of course. WaPo should ask her to write a column.
"With the groundwork of that one lazy sentence, Cohen leaps to: "It is, in other words, some of the same sentiment that once fueled European fascism."" Ah, yes, we're fascists. "Some of the same sentiment," after all. But wait: Which side has the antisemites? Which side wants to increase state control of the economy? Which side wants government to have more power? Which side wants to transvalue bourgeois values? Even their smears are inane. F** them.
"To give WaPo readers some credit, maybe they, like me, saw the headline and believed that someone at the newspaper was finally going to get serious and go deep in trying to understand how people really think and feel in the America that lies beyond the Northeast." Huh? How many believed that? How many wanted that?
"bland but hysterical" sums up the zeitgeist.
Robert Cook said: "I mean that Trump is contemptuous of anyone who disagrees with him or whom he perceives as weaker than him."
I don't think you understand contempt. Contempt doesn't require engagement, because the contemptuous person considers him- or herself intrinsically above the othef person. Trump engages everything that moves.
That journalists and citizens and observers seem to fling it over and over like monkey poo has much more to do with the impervious nature of its target than the limitations of the flingers.
I initially read that as "the limitations of the fingers" which I think is funnier.
Monkey poo flingers need unlimited fingers.
Trump loves our country and he fights for us whereas the liberal media and actually all liberals hate America. The liberals are destroying our country from within and their effort to destroy our borders will be the coup de grace. You see, they're so cosmopolitan, citizens of the world, Republicans are so provincial.
tim in vermont said...
"some people loathe Trump."
You know Chuck, you might make more progress if you could acknowledge that Trump addresses issues for working Americans that the GOP and the Democrat Party have roundly ignored, then you could explain why, absent Trump, that stuff will change for the better for Americans in the future.
JK LOL! I know you can’t do that. Sorry for asking...
I'll play (but please let's not turn this into a personal fight; let's stay on-topic with "why do people like Trump").
There is a lot of what I regard as ignorant bloviating from Trump that gives people the idea that Trump cares about the American working class. So Trump talks about coal mining (when in fact Trump himself isn't going to make much of a difference on any number of coal mining jobs, and no more than what a Republican from a coal mining state like Mitch McConnell would do); and Trump talks about American auto jobs (when in fact Trump's current tariff war talk and Anti-NAFTA screeds are screwing things up for Detroit automakers); and tax cuts (which are fine, although he's blowing up federal budget deficits in the process).
What do you say that Trump has actually done for working people? Health care? College affordability? Job creation is a big deal, and Trump is definitely presiding over a major economic boom. Which began before Trump took the oath of office. It's good times, for full employment.
Which is why Trump's negative-approval gap is so remarkable. Trump's approval rating -- presiding over a beautiful economy that he inherited -- is about the same as Obama's approval rating at the same time of his first term, presiding over an economy in a near-depression.
"As shrill and monotonous as much of the criticism of Trump is, it's also accurate."
It's incoherent. Trump's grandfather was an immigrant. Trump's mother was an immigrant. Trump married two immigrants. Therefore Trump hates immigrants.
Trump's critics have made laughing stocks of themselves, which they would see if they still possessed that most human of senses, the sense of humor.
I have a sibling who made quite a bit of money in and since the 90s. Somewhere in there this one became a Republican, the only one among my sibs and parents (both alive in their 80s). He has become a Trump supporter. He was somewhat tentative about this in 2016, but as of a couple of months ago, he told us he has become a strong supporter of Trump. And he stated repeatedly that the chief reason he supports Trump is that he is against the people my sib is against. His position is now clear: as long as Trump is attacking the people my sib cannot abide, he will support him. That's it.
Chuck,
Drudge each month runs comparable poll numbers from gallup, zogby et al. These show Obama and President Trump approvals at the same pount. Eg 3months in, 4,5 etc.
Generally president trump is slighty ahead, when behind, it is only a point or two.
Doesn't seem to be any statistically significant difference between the two.
Yesterday I saw polling showing about 80% among Republicans. I can probably find a link tonight if you remind me
John Henry
Who would have guessed that 45% of the American people support Trump because it makes their siblings mad!
Personally, I like Trump because he has all the right enemies. He drives the elites crazy. He unhinges the establishment. The leftists loath him. Chuck, Inga and Ritmo despise him.
I also appreciate his platform and the results he is producing.
Also, many Americans dislike Trump as a person but would vote for him again in a heartbeat. I'm in that group.
My son (age 28) says I've been conned. (I'm Canadian, I didn't vote for Trump). Apparently, any defence of more restriction on immigration, something more like Canada's points system with real enforcement, if this sounds like anything like Trump, gives aid and comfort to racists, probably reflects the lazy thinking of aging white males and others who benefitted from the bubbles of privilege in the old days, etc. I of course think it's just common sense. Regardless of what actions are finally taken, Trump has "triggered" (wonderful word) a fairly good debate about immigration. As Chris Matthews said during the campaign, Trump stands for the view that the President's most substantial obligations are to Americans and in a different way to immigrants who are in the country legally. By comparison he has no obligation to speak of to anyone else. Why not question trade and security agreements to see if they are benefitting the U.S.? De-regulation and appointments, including judicial appointments, are what you would expect when the Republicans win an election. Members of the Bush family may not have been as "good" if they wanted to avoid controversy. Otherwise Trump is in some ways an ordinary person--a rude uncle at Thanksgiving, or maybe Rodney Dangerfield in Caddyshack--doing a difficult job in (I guess) a fairly conscientious way.
"educated"
Educated by decades of progressive socialist commie indoctrination.
"Trump himself isn't going to make much of a difference on any number of coal mining jobs, and no more than what a Republican from a coal mining state like Mitch McConnell would do"
2nd half undoes the first.
http://wvmetronews.com/2018/06/02/west-virginia-lawmakers-approve-trump-action-to-help-coal-plants/
Unknown said: "His position is now clear: as long as Trump is attacking the people my sib cannot abide, he will support him."
Are you my long lost sibling?
Anyway, to the question, why people like Trump. Adding to Bill P and others.
First, a quibble: it depends on what the meaning of "like" is. Speaking for myself, I don't "like" him that much, I can't listen to him for more than a minute or so, and I won't have him over for dinner anytime soon. As people around here know, I considered him a clownish candidate.
But:
1. He fights. The GOP had been turning the other cheek. That's bad politics. I want our side to fight back, even if Trump's "side" is occasionally fuzzy and in flux.
2. He puts America first. He doesn't do global-citizen, all-for-humanity BS. He doesn't apologize for us. Sure, some of the putting-first, such as the "trade wars," may backfire, but the attitude is right and the place to start.
3. He wants to get control of immigration. It is the essential issue. A democratic Republic should decided who is in and who is out, and stick to the rule of law. Illegal immigration is an attack on the nation. It needs to stop. How effective he'll be is in question, but at least he is moving in the right direction.
4. He is more conservative in practice than I expected. Deregulation, judicial appointments, new tax law, partial change to Obamacare, challenges to sanctuary cities and higher ed practices, are all better than I thought they would be, partly thanks to some fairly solid cabinet choices.
5. He is trying a new script in foreign affairs, in NK, Russia, NATO, Iran, and so on. Not clear whether we should "like" it overall, and Trumpian improvisation makes it hard to judge, but parts of it are likable and change is necessary.
6. He has the right enemies. The left is pushing sanctuary cities and ICE abolition, lawsuits against energy companies, "socialism," racist/fascist smears against deplorable Trump supporters, a phony collusion persecution, and a constant barrage of disparagement. I despise them and want them to fail, so if it helps, I will like Trump.
Richard. Let me explain it to you in a way I think you'll understand. My VAC guy is a real asshole. My AC goes out and I ask for a quote. I get two. I pick the least expensive option. He writes it up.
Me," Now that's an estimate, right?"
HVAC guy," No that the price, all in. Compressor, coil, installation. Every thing."
Me,"Great. Make it so."
And then he proceeded to do exactly what he said he was going to do.
See. that's why people like Trump. No lies. No equivocation. No lawyerly double speak.
"There's going to be a tax cut." Tax cut. I'm going to roll back government regulations." regulations cut.
None of the ,"If you like your dr you can keep your dr." bullshit.
Maybe Cohen could write a piece explaining to the benighted why New York loves Hillary Clinton. It's a mystery to me, but then I'm a moron.
A more accurate headline would be
"Yet Another MSM Scribbler Tediously Virtue-Signals His Hatred For Trump"
"Yet Another MSM Scribbler Virtue-Signals By Very Obviously Projecting His Own Low-Boil Rage Onto Others"
"...the chief reason he supports Trump is that he is against the people my sib is against."
This is a real issue for the Democrats: I don't think they can reconnect with the country until they go down the rabbit hole and figure out how a workers' political party became a cult that nominated the wife of a former president. That sounds like a small and easy thing to do, but actually looking into it would require dislodging thousands of people from loyalist jobs and bypassing billions in corporate support.
Again, these people thought it was a great idea to "elevate" one of the best-known people in the country into a credible candidate for President, and are still seemingly stunned that it backfired. Digging them out by the root may leave only a Socialist rump party, but even that's better than a party that sees only tactics.
Darkisland said...
Chuck,
Drudge each month runs comparable poll numbers from gallup, zogby et al. These show Obama and President Trump approvals at the same pount. Eg 3months in, 4,5 etc.
Generally president trump is slighty ahead, when behind, it is only a point or two.
Doesn't seem to be any statistically significant difference between the two.
Yesterday I saw polling showing about 80% among Republicans. I can probably find a link tonight if you remind me
John Henry
Two quick things:
One; yes I see that depending on the poll, Trump's approval numbers at this stage are equal to or better than Obama at the same points in their presidencies. And what I am saying is that Obama was presiding over an economic train wreck (cash for clunkers, auto bankruptcies, mortgage crisis, Obamacare debate, etc., etc.) while Trump is presiding over a pretty great economic boomlet. The old saying -- true, I think -- is that presidents always get too much blame for a bad economy and too much credit for a good economy. No matter who the president is at any given time.
Two; yes Trump is polling well with Republicans. That shouldn't be too surprising. They voted for him; they are invested in him. I sure as hell am never going to say that I regret my vote for Trump and that I wish I had voted for Clinton.
But this post was specifically about liking Trump. I see just above me the comment that "...many Americans dislike Trump as a person but would vote for him again in a heartbeat. I'm in that group." I too dislike Trump as a person, but voted for him. I would not vote for him again in a heartbeat. I'd like to see Trump's term end, and a more likable Republican take his place.
The left are the insular power-whores.
Bigotry.
Very fine bigotry.
Cohen will discover why people like DJT about the same time Hillary understands why she's not 50 points ahead. 2024?
One of the very best things about reading an Althouse take-down of the media and/or the political class is her pointing out the blatant logical inconsistencies that they hold dear.
Cohen has exactly one sentence that tries to say why people like Trump, and it's incredibly weak: "My guess is that it’s a low-boil rage against a vague and threatening liberalism — urbane, educated, affluent, secular, diverse and sexually tolerant."
Yes, yes, I know. You're so sure you and your friends are the good people. Your unshakeable love for yourself and your friends is glaringly evident, as usual. By the way, if the Trumpsters are raging against the sexually tolerant, why are they they tolerating Trump's sexual behavior?
Why people like Trump? Perhaps because we are able to look at the bigger picture and decide, for ourselves, what is really important. Prioritizing. Being able to divorce the personal private foibles of the man from the performance of the office.
None so blind as those who will not see.
And what I am saying is that Obama was presiding over an economic train wreck (cash for clunkers, auto bankruptcies, mortgage crisis, Obamacare debate, etc., etc.) while Trump is presiding over a pretty great economic boomlet.
There are other variables. Obama was the subject of irrational, unending praise by the MSM. Trum has been subject to the insane hatred of the MSM for the enirety of his candidacy and presidency.
Rusty said...
Richard. Let me explain it to you in a way I think you'll understand. My VAC guy is a real asshole. My AC goes out and I ask for a quote. I get two. I pick the least expensive option. He writes it up.
Me," Now that's an estimate, right?"
HVAC guy," No that the price, all in. Compressor, coil, installation. Every thing."
Me,"Great. Make it so."
And then he proceeded to do exactly what he said he was going to do.
See. that's why people like Trump. No lies. No equivocation. No lawyerly double speak.
"There's going to be a tax cut." Tax cut. I'm going to roll back government regulations." regulations cut.
None of the ,"If you like your dr you can keep your dr." bullshit.
Oh what bullshit. Trump made more grand un-keepable promises about health care than any candidate in history. Better care with lower rates and lower co-pays and "cover everybody... because we have to; we have to cover everybody." And not only did Trump not come close, he didn't even have a coherent proposal of his own. The great deal-maker didn't seem to even be interested in the subject.
And Trump promised a tax package that would hurt people like himself, he said.
Trump promised to "build a wall" and make Mexico pay for it.
I think that Trump has been pretty terrific on Executive Branch regulatory de-regulation. But that wasn't really much of a campaign pledge, was it? Trump was making promises about how he'd make deals and get us back to a more balanced budget by cutting waste, fraud and abuse, but instead he is presiding over massive deficit creation extending out as far as the eye can see.
My guess is that it’s a low-boil rage against a vague and threatening liberalism — urbane, educated, affluent, secular, diverse and sexually tolerant.
He's not just living in a bubble, he's living in an opaque dome reinforced by titanium.
Ultimately it comes down to interests.
Cohens interests conflict rather fundamentally with those of Trumps supporters, and vice versa. There is a reluctance to concede rationality in either direction, because it leads to distressing conclusions.
Trump ripped Obama and Bush. Rosencrantz and Guildenstern. The two idiots who did so much to fuck things up. The two morons whose legacy is Trump.
He rips the dessicated GOP like Flake and Corker (and Ryan), who are all headed for the exits to lobby for the assholes whose water they’ve been carrying during their service in Congress. He rips Dem flakes like Liz Warren and Joe Biden.
He rips the idiot NFL owners and the idiot players for fucking up basic stuff like standing for the national anthem.
He has exposed as hucksters most of the Conservative Commentariat like Bill Kristol and has shown that guys like Brennan and Comey are incompetent douchebags.
It’s been great. The people who deserve to be disgraced are getting disgraced.
There is a lot of what I regard as ignorant bloviating from Trump that gives people the idea that Trump cares about the American working class. So Trump talks about coal mining (when in fact Trump himself isn't going to make much of a difference on any number of coal mining jobs, and no more than what a Republican from a coal mining state like Mitch McConnell would do); and Trump talks about American auto jobs (when in fact Trump's current tariff war talk and Anti-NAFTA screeds are screwing things up for Detroit automakers); and tax cuts (which are fine, although he's blowing up federal budget deficits in the process).
We're exporting coal. Along with natural gas and petroleum. That there is any coal industry left is thanks to Trump. The automobile industry has been in trouble long before Trump showed up. Isn't Chrysler bringing it's engine plant back to the US from Canada? I don't know I think I read that somewhere. The thing about Tax cuts, Chuck is it isn't the governments money. It's mine. Why are you worried about the deficit now? More people working means more tax revenues.
"What do you say that Trump has actually done for working people? Health care? College affordability? Job creation is a big deal, and Trump is definitely presiding over a major economic boom. Which began before Trump took the oath of office. It's good times, for full employment."
Jobs? That's a good start. Those other things are secondary from a regular paycheck. I know they loom large for progressives. No. The Obama administration rode the clutch on the economy his whole two terms using quantitive easing. Trump poped the clutch and finally shifted into second.
"Which is why Trump's negative-approval gap is so remarkable. Trump's approval rating -- presiding over a beautiful economy that he inherited -- is about the same as Obama's approval rating at the same time of his first term, presiding over an economy in a near-depression."
See my clutch riding analogy.
Mr. Cohen, we like HIM because he's not one of YOU. Barack Obama and his henchmen were. Hillary Clinton and her henchmen were. The people running the mainstream media are. John Brennan, Jim Comey, Andrew McCabe, James Clapper, Peter Strzok and the entire rogue's gallery that has been exposed like worms and pillbugs after a big rock is turned over, all are. I look at all of the disgusting people who hate Donald Trump and I'm impressed with his taste in enemies. Given a choice between them and Trump, I would take Trump 11 times out of 10.
"Hey. We won the right for gays to be married through a court decision!"
That's good, though maybe you should have waited a little while longer instead of suing. It looked like a majority of states were going to legalize gay marriage in the next few years. And maybe it would be a good idea to let the people most opposed to it see it as the inconsequential thing it is.
"Shut up you Nazi homophobe! Hey. Now that gays can marry we are going to sue Christian bakers and venue owners to force them to service our gay weddings!"
Are you sure you want to do that? You are literally forcing by gunpoint someone to participate in something they morally oppose.
"Shut up you Nazi homophobe! We are going to sue and march and boycott and occupy until Christians no longer oppose gay marriage and President Hillary will use the Federal government to make that happen!"
A Clinton making things happen? You mean like Ruby Ridge, Waco, and the SWAT raid to return Elian Gonzales to Cuba?
(Yeah, I suppose it was probably 'anger' that motivated some Trump voters. Certainly not 'fear' of the Clintons or the inappeasable sexually-tolerant.)
In his utter cluelessness Richard Cohen occasionally writes a very funny column. My favorite example of such is one where Cohen is out riding a bicycle. I don't know what Cohen looks like, but in my minds eye I see a metrosexual dork looking like Obama with his bicycle helmet.
Anyway, Cohen said he was out riding his bicycle when he had a epiphany about Obama. It's not quite Saul on the road to Tarsus, but in Cohen's mind and words,it was akin to such a religious revelation. Of course the object of Cohen's reverence and adulation was our New Light Worker. What can you say about a writer who is capable of such claptrap?
How about people like trump because they realize the media is a branch of the democrat party.
Oh what bullshit. Trump made more grand un-keepable promises about health care than any candidate in history.
More than Obama or Hillary? I think not.
And Trump promised a tax package that would hurt people like himself, he said.
Steal from the rich and give to the poor has a loooong history.
Trump promised to "build a wall" and make Mexico pay for it.
Could still easily be done. I predict it will.
I think that Trump has been pretty terrific on Executive Branch regulatory de-regulation. But that wasn't really much of a campaign pledge, was it?
It mattered to me. And his progress in this area is helping to create a booming economy.
Trump was making promises about how he'd make deals and get us back to a more balanced budget by cutting waste, fraud and abuse,
He's doing his part.
but instead he is presiding over massive deficit creation extending out as far as the eye can see.
That's neither his fault nor responsibility. That's the fault and responsibility of your GOP Establishment pals in Congress.
Salena Zito wrote an entire book on the topic. -WSW
Gahrie said...
When the Left finally wakes up (Hopefully after getting swamped this November) they will once again reject the Progressive label and attempt to reclaim the liberal label (again). They keep mistaking a rejection of their ideology as bad branding and marketing.
Those darned dogs still won't eat that dog food!
I'd like to see Trump's term end, and a more likable Republican take his place.
Likeable to whom? Your pals in the media? The Left?
You still don't get it! McCain was well liked by the MSM, the Democrats, and the GOP Establishment...right up to the point he ran for president. Then he was an evil NAZI racist homophobe who was going to get us all killed in a war. As soon as he politely lost, they began liking him again.
The intelligence community spies on us and lies to us. Whey should we (the people) view them with anything other than suspicion, distrust, disbelief, and contempt?
Cookie had a good idea here, which he diminishes in a series of dumb lefty comments to follow.
Somebody might read "Legacy of Ashes" A History of the CIA to find out why some of us don't trust them.
The CIA's defenders say we never hear about their successes and that would be fair if we knew of them. The left hates some of the success, like the reinstatement of the Shah which they call the "overthrow of Mossadegh." One irony is that the book is written by a NY Times reporter. The Times is now all in defending the crazy former CIA Director.
Trump was making promises about how he'd make deals and get us back to a more balanced budget by cutting waste, fraud and abuse, but instead he is presiding over massive deficit creation extending out as far as the eye can see.
I guess Chuck didn't like Reagan much, either.
Getting the economy to 4% growth doesn't count in Chuck's book. Chuck missed massive deficit creation the past 25 years. Really since 1965.
Chuck has his usual anti-Trump rant.
Gahrie said...
I'd like to see Trump's term end, and a more likable Republican take his place.
Likeable to whom? Your pals in the media? The Left?
You still don't get it! McCain was well liked by the MSM, the Democrats, and the GOP Establishment...right up to the point he ran for president. Then he was an evil NAZI racist homophobe who was going to get us all killed in a war. As soon as he politely lost, they began liking him again.
I don't disagree with that. McCain also was not a Truther, a Birther, a Vaxxer or a draft dodger.
shorter leftwinger with lame opinions: You're all deplorable, and we on the left cannot stop saying so in so many boring words.
Job creation is a big deal, and Trump is definitely presiding over a major economic boom. Which began before Trump took the oath of office. It's good times, for full employment.
But after he won the election. This is the type of fake news we expect from the MSM and the Left, and despise from the GOP Establishment. It's exactly how you get more Trump.
Earth to Chuck, The Trump admin is cutting regulations by the thousands.
The Environmental Protection Agency under former Administrator Scott Pruitt led the administration’s successful war on regulations, slashing enough to produce $350 million in savings and eliminate 300,000 hours of paperwork.
A new report on the agency’s efforts found that the EPA “was a net deregulatory agency,” and a highlight of President Trump’s effort to eliminate many Obama-era regulations.
What’s more, the American Action Forum report found that Pruitt set in place an anti-regulatory mindset that should keep the EPA at the leading edge of deregulation under Trump.
Of course the limp dick Republicans let the left savage him.
Fuck that, Gahrie. If I am a Republican in Congress, I am going to fight for my district. That often means federal spending in my district. Trump can't go around taking credit for "His" great tax cut and then put it on congress to cut spending to meet that constraint. The President has to take ownership too. President Working Class Voter has to say what working-class federal programs he is going to cut.
Which is why Trump's negative-approval gap is so remarkable. Trump's approval rating -- presiding over a beautiful economy that he inherited
See, this is the type of comment that makes people think you are a Moby. You repeat the Left's exact lies and propaganda.
This isn't Obama's economy...he did not inherit a booming economy...before the election the economy was limping along funded by massive injections of cash and government spending. The economy did not begin to boom until after Trump won the election...and it boomed precisely because Trump would be in charge instead of the Left.
To begin with, re rational analysis, consider that both sides exist in separate economies.
What benefits "deplorables" has no real upside for that .001%, and its supporting infrastructure, that the WaPo speaks for. Bezos makes his money through asset appreciation, and a very narrow slice of assets at that. For all the talk of opening Amazon facilities here and there, it matters very little where its done, and indeed, whether its done at all.
The "blue" model is CA, with the minimum possible physical industry and the maximum possible participation of the mandarin class. Moreover, there really is no scope for a California (New York and Washington, and Seattle) model elsewhere, other than to be the gutted hinterland of NY-California. The entire country is fated, under the ideal blue regime, to be a vastly expanded upstate New York.
Its no accident that you have politics splitting you the way it is, as unlike all previous history there is no economic common ground. Its zero sum.
Fuck that, Gahrie. If I am a Republican in Congress, I am going to fight for my district. That often means federal spending in my district.
Justification for the GOP Establishment lying to their base and the American people?!? This is my shocked face. If you don't intend to cut spending and shrink the government don't promise to do so.
Trump can't go around taking credit for "His" great tax cut
Would we have had it without him? This is where you try to tell me that Jeb or Kasich would have done the same thing.
and then put it on congress to cut spending to meet that constraint.
Oh shit...he expected Congress to do its job? Fucking fascist!
The President has to take ownership too. President Working Class Voter has to say what working-class federal programs he is going to cut.
No...that's the job of Congress. They're the ones who are supposed to write a budget.
Chuck said...
What do you say that Trump has actually done for working people? Health care? College affordability? Job creation is a big deal, and Trump is definitely presiding over a major economic boom. Which began before Trump took the oath of office. It's good times, for full employment.
Bwahahahahahaha! Obama never had 3% growth in any quarter and you're trying to tell us that he's the one who started the economic boom? Bwahahahahahahaha! Don't piss on our legs and tell us it's raining!
To repeat, this is not one economy, this is at least two, in parallel.
Its a mistake to see improving employment as a general benefit or a valid goal across all sectors.
Indeed, the welfare of the bulk of the population is irrelevant to one of those economies. It exists on its own, beyond the physical plane, disconnected from every sort of material entity.
"But very little of the column even attempts to tell us why people like Trump"
so he cannot hold a thought long enough to look for answer before confessing ... what does he confess ... place him on mental illness scale / spectrum for TDS
I love Trump because every morning I wake up to MSNBC and watch "experts" set their hair on fire.
I have no idea what goes on at CNN, I only catch their comedy act when flying commercial.
What do you say that Trump has actually done for working people?
He cares?
Bwaaaaaaaaaa it worked for Clinton!
@buways ...
To repeat, this is not one economy, this is at least two, in parallel.
I would say actually one is parasitical on the other and the parasites know who they are.
It is the hosts' survival attempts to dispel them - that they are resisting.
The President has to take ownership too. President Working Class Voter has to say what working-class federal programs he is going to cut.
What do you think the recommended consolidation is?
he failed to show faith in our intelligence community.
All that proves is that Pres. Trump has been paying attention. HECKUVA JOB IN SYRIA AND LIBYA, BOYS!!
People like Trump because they don't like Cohen.
AllenS summarizes the situation quite succinctly. We love Donald Trump in part because of the worthless scum who hate him. And Cohen, who was a vociferous defender of Bill Clinton’s peccadilloes (“it wasn’t really perjury; it was just a little lying about sex”) has no standing to complain about any past (or present, for that matter) womanizing by Donald Trump.
Evil is not so easily spotted as people think. It takes intellectual effort.
Communism. Socialism for the 21st century. Easy to spot and the intellectuals, the urbane, educated, affluent, [and] secular, still can’t grasp it. No matter how many times it’s in their face and hitting them over the head.
It’ll be different this time!
Obamas economy is notable for the very extended "jobless recovery", that never restored the employment situation of 2007, which we still have not yet achieved, and we are moreover very far from that of 2000.
Previous economic downturns did not take a decade to fail to restore the prior state.
And I have previously demonstrated that actual US employment performance during the Obama administration has lagged the recovery of other major economies. 2008-2009 was a global downturn. The US was peculiar!y slow to recover, afflicted by increased structural deficiencies. And these international comparisons are against more "socialist" economies.
The answer is in the ideal of the economy that the Obama administration had as its goal, that is, the Californian blue model.
President Working Class Voter has to say what working-class federal programs he is going to cut.
The regulatory rollbacks are a.good start. You did say "aimed at the working class".
It is not a patasitical economy on the whole. A parasite benefits from a healthy host. The "blue model" does not benefit much if at all from a healthy hinterland. Indeed, the hinterland is irrelevant at best, and a threat at worst.
He is mistaking tolerating for love.
I agree. He probably got used to being in love with the President during the last administration.
@Clyde, Chuck is both right and misleading about the jobs boom. It did begin before Trump took the oath of office, however it began days, perhaps a week, after Trump won and businesses grasped that the days of Democrsts killing jobs by over regulation were over.
"he failed to show faith in our intelligence community"
Is Cohen claiming "Trust me, I know what I am talking about" = that he/intelligentsia expect faith on the part of the rubes in his intelligence.
Someone posted
“I guaran - damn - tee were tTrump pushing open borders, sending pallets of cash to Iran, adding regulation after regulation to all manner of life, putting his finger on the scales of justice against normal people, men in education, brown energy, and working class jobs, the howls from middle America would be truly deafening.”
AND he would still be hated and criticised by the democrat media party. They would find something to tag him as a racist, sexist, homophobe, Nazi.
This is known.
And Cohen, who was a vociferous defender of Bill Clinton’s peccadilloes…...
In fairness to Richard Cohen, he did pen an epic mea culpa column in the Wapo acknowledging that Bill Clinton played him like a banjo. After Clinton left..office, of course. It's around here somewhere.
Robert Cook said: "I mean that Trump is contemptuous of anyone who disagrees with him or whom he perceives as weaker than him."
What a bitter clinging, deplorable thing to say. I don’t know why you aren’t 50 points ahead of other posters here.
All [journalists] can really do is repeat themselves, provide context and continue to document his destructive and dangerous behaviour.
What a load of crap. Flinging poo is all they have done but it is far from what they could be doing, which is reporting. Flinging poo isn't reporting (although I can see why you would like that instead of reporters seeking facts). Flinging poo is reactionary and self-destructive. Flinging poo has brought trust ratings lower than for Congress to The Fourth Estate. Flinging poo only satisfies the basest instincts of their dwindling audience, people like YOU.
Take a look at the work Salena Zito has been doing, reporting from the towns in the rust belt that voted for Trump. She does a good job of sussing out facts on the ground. If the DNC-Media complex had not taken a left turn into poo-flinging land, they could be exploring the actual facts about Russia, how we've expelled "diplomats" and shut down spy nests in CA consulates, killed their mercenaries in Syria, armed Putin's enemies in Poland and the Ukraine, and kept NATO exercises that take place uncomfortably close to Russia (uncomfortable for Putin that is). Given the lack of context the poo-flinging media instead barfs up hot takes like "bigger than Kristallnacht and Pearl Harbor" to describe a mundane press conference and claims against all sense that being harder on Iran is doing Putin's bidding. Stupid and ridiculous.
@buwaya - " The "blue model" does not benefit much if at all from a healthy hinterland."
if true they should be indifferent to Trump - why then this desperation to bring down Trump
Big Mike said...
@Clyde, Chuck is both right and misleading about the jobs boom. It did begin before Trump took the oath of office, however it began days, perhaps a week, after Trump won and businesses grasped that the days of Democrsts killing jobs by over regulation were over.
Exactly. You don't have to be a weatherman to see which way the wind is blowing. Businesses could see that the days of driving with our foot on the brake were over and done with. Animal spirits rising, etc. And it's been pretty much everything that Americans could have hoped for in terms of deregulation and tax cuts stimulating economic and jobs growth. None of which would have happened if Madame Clinton had been elected.
I bought stock the morning after the election. I havent been disappointed in those companies at all.
Libs, progs, and Democrat Party members are affluent, Republicans are rich. Rich is bad, 1%, they don't pay their fair share. Affluent is admirable, tolerant, urbane- a word that means educated by smug, intolerable assholes who don't know shit.
Cohen and co. are professionals working for a propaganda system.
They are given periodic editorial instructions in coordination with other parts of the system. If you approach it with that model in mind you will understand them better.
They will not change their line (wherein they, perhaps, understand the "deplorables"), unless they receive instructions to do so.
if true they should be indifferent to Trump - why then this desperation to bring down Trump
A lust for power.
And yet it's #1 on WaPo's "most read" list.
There is no better argument against big government and the growth of government power than the deranged WaPo commenters.
Because what the blue model depends on are government policies that benefit their asset values. That is, for instance, protection from competition, "intellectual property", and artificial restrictions on development.
"The answer is in the ideal of the economy that the Obama administration had as its goal, that is, the Californian blue model"
With a bit of Chicago thrown in for familiarity and comfort for the Obamas.
It wasn't just that Obama and the Dems didn't do the right stuff to get the economy going again after the crash, but they did pretty much everything wrong. The Best and the Brightest, Cohen's friends, screwed the economy up royally. They layered on the regulations and restrictions, including Obamacare, Dodd Frank, etc at exactly the wrong time in the economic cycle. And then they took their cut, their vigorish, out of the massive, ongoing, Keynesian stimulus, despite Keynesian economics having been essentially debunked by the time Carter left office. And of course borrowed that money that they were skimming so lucratively. Which, of course, why they continued to loot the public till for those eight years. The money was just too good to stop.
Seeing Red said...
I bought stock the morning after the election. I havent been disappointed in those companies at all.
But the stock market began its climb under Obama. If you waited until the election of Trump, you missed out on massive gains:
http://unknownphysicist.blogspot.com/2017/11/the-facts-about-trump-and-stock-market.html
One of the things I find so hilarious about the Post’s feigned anger at Trump’s dismissal of intelligence agencies is that fourteen or fifteen years ago they were all over George W. Bush for not ignoring the CIA’s “slam dunk” intelligence assessment that Saddam Hussein was developing and storing weapons of mass destruction.
But the stock market began its climb under Obama. If you waited until the election of Trump, you missed out on massive gains:
Only because of massive injections of cash into the economy and the fact that there was no where else to invest your money.
Democrat party members are very proud to be sexually tolerant of pedophilia, promiscuity, and rape-rape committed by Democrat Party members, party officials and their generous donors.
"Which, of course, why they continued to loot the public till for those eight years. The money was just too good to stop."
The funny part of this is that the intelligentsia, like Cohen, really didn't benefit financially that much from the graft and corruption of the Obama years. It was their betters: Feinstein,Pelosi, AlGore, the Clintons, Soros, Steyer, etc, and, ultimately, probably as their trusted mascots, the Obamas. Hundreds of billions (borrowed in the country's name) were siphoned off into the pockets of the insiders, and crumbs, if anything, were thrown to their supporters and apologists, like Cohen.
>>"My guess is that it’s a low-boil rage against a vague and threatening liberalism — urbane, educated, affluent, secular, diverse and sexually tolerant."
"Please don't hate me because I'm beautiful."
Another 'Gorillas in the Mist' article that ventures little into the mist and tracks down exactly zero gorillas.
Gahrie (to "Jim Acosta republican" Chuck): "You still don't get it! McCain was well liked by the MSM, the Democrats, and the GOP Establishment...right up to the point he ran for president. Then he was an evil
NAZI racist homophobe who was going to get us all killed in a war. As soon as he politely lost, they began liking him again."
LLR Chyck knows that path leads to Democrats returning to power.
Thats the entire point.
You will also note every single LLR Chuck comment on economics and our econonic growth and obamacare, etc., is indistinguishable from a Ritmo or Inga comment.
Indistinguishable.
In fact they read like Li'l Dickie Durbin Press Releases.
The good news, as seen from the polls, is no one anywhere is listening to these pro-dem Durbin cuckholsters like LLR Chuck any longer.
Hey Chuckie, good luck in your Quixote-like quest to give democrats credit for 4% GDP!
LOL
LLR Chuck's economic understanding matches his Michigan electoral understanding: 0.0%
LLR Chuck's understanding and use of every single Lefty talking point and narrative: 100%
"I mean that Trump is contemptuous of anyone who disagrees with him or whom he perceives as weaker than him."
You just described 99% of all politicians.
I had a little cash on the side Chuck.
DBQ said:
"Why people like Trump? Perhaps because we are able to look at the bigger picture and decide, for ourselves, what is really important. Prioritizing. Being able to divorce the personal private foibles of the man from the performance of the office."
We hear about private foibles because that's all the Democrat/MSM/DeepState have. Look a squirrel!!!!
People make no mistake, Chuck wasn't fellating Obama in his 9:51 AM comment.
It just looked that way in print.
Blogger Chuck said...”Fuck that, Gahrie. If I am a Republican in Congress, I am going to fight for my district. That often means federal spending in my district.”
This is probably the biggest reason I’ll never consider myself a Republican. Pigs at the trough.
[Trump] said "shithole countries," he probably committed adultery, he failed to show faith in our intelligence community—
The left agrees with at least two of these supposed failings, and if you switch shithole countries to shithole states in reference to Kansas or Alabama they support all three.
This shows Cohen isn't even discussing the issue from his own / the left's values. [Be serious, the left cares about adultery after two decades of Bill Clinton?] He's arguing based on his perception of other people's values which exposes his / the left's hypocrisy. as a result everyone else rejects it out of hand.
It takes some element of insight to adopt another's viewpoint and essentially no one the (modern) left establishment has any. Anyone who had such insight never became influential because they were deemed politically unreliable. This works when you outright control institutions particularly academia and media as you don't have to worry about competing ideas. But it leaves you completely ineffective when trying to persuade anyone outside your control. Their institutional influence is power / fear / retribution which is why they are trying to replicate that model from academia to the public. But they're going to find out it isn't going to work.
Or more likely they never will figure that out.
Darrell: "People make no mistake, Chuck wasn't fellating Obama in his 9:51 AM comment.
It just looked that way in print"
LLR and "Brian Stelter republican" Chuck's 9:51 AM comment is perfectly consistent with someone who thinks obama is "magnificent".
And gee, once again, coincidently, is a basically the complete democrat portfolio of talking points on the economy and its current performance!
Which LLR Chuck's beloved lefty MSM-ers told us was "impossible".
But strangely enough, LLR Chuck and the lefties "forgot" that's what they told us since Jan of 2017.
History begins anew each day for LLR's as well as the lefties.
Reasonable persons might feel justified in drawing reasonable inferences from LLR Chuck's slavish devotion to the dems talking points.
Someone mentioned the overthrow of Mossadegh in Iran.
1. Mossadegh was appointed as PM by the Shah and served at the Shah's pleasure. He was not elected.
2. Mossadegh tried to seize power from the Shah. For this the Shah dismissed him. (other reasons too)
3. Massadegh refused to go and there was some unrest.
4. The Cia helped a LEGITIMATE constitutional ruler stay in power.
Lots of other cia stuff to complain about. Guatemala, for example. Or, more recently Honduras. Yet somehow people always talk about Iran.
John Henry
Blogger Gahrie said...
But the stock market began its climb under Obama. If you waited until the election of Trump, you missed out on massive gains:
Only because of massive injections of cash into the economy and the fact that there was no where else to invest your money.
This is one of the things that makes me wonder about Chuck. Everybody in the investing class much have known about ZIRP. the collapse of bonds made lots of retirees poor. It probably hurt places like Tucson where lots of retired people used to winter and then their pensions and investments tanked. It was OK if you had stock fund but, traditionally, you went from stocks to bonds as you retired. Bonds were supposed to be safer and they were until 2008 and ZIRP.
It's odd that Chuck doesn't seem to know that. I have watched massive inflation for 60 years and it has been as harmful to the young as ZIRP is to the elderly.
We may still be headed for a crash but at least some manufacturing is coming back.
It's apparent "journalists" like Cohen and their coastal fellow travelers have no understanding of anything outside of their titanium bubble. Their caricatures of everybody else can only be explained by conversations among themselves where everybody agrees and thus truth is defined. Nobody has to "love" Trump to be in favor of voting and supporting him over Cohen and his ilk. The rest of the country is tired of being condescended to.
Trump boasting and bloviating (that any normal person knows is tall talk salesmanship and not to be taken dead seriously) is castigated by the supposed "elites" of both parties, while the much more pernicious lies and selling of Obamacare (ask Ben Rhodes) are papered over or even celebrated.
An obviously poorly thought-out and/or prepared statement about Russia is blown up into "treason" while giving money to mullahs under the cover of darkness and secretly negotiating and lying about an Iran deal is "statesmanship."
Setting up small businesses about catering gay weddings (when the pizza and bakery owners were happy to sell any normal merchandise to gay customers) and ruining them, while celebrating administration personnel or those wearing Trump supporting clothes being heckled and kicked out of establishments is more of the hypocrisy.
Actual targeting of Republicans (Scalise, Paul) barely gets a mention from these people, while other tragedies that aren't related to political opposition at all (Giffords) are endlessly pinned on Republicans. And Democrats (Waters) skate up to the line encouraging more of it.
It's as if there are no mirrors or any capacity for self-reflection among these people. People see this and vote accordingly. They have jobs and families to take care of, so they aren't marching in the street swearing at everybody or wearing genitalia hats (though, somehow, it's these quiet folks going about their business in flyover who are described as "angry"). They just vote and deep thinkers like Cohen and their ilk are left scratching their $200 haircut heads.
Blogger Robert Cook said...
"People like Trump because they believe his boorish, crude, contemptuous, childish language and acting out proves he's a "straight-shooter."
And because they're like him, (boorish, crude, contemptuous, and childish)."
This is the virtue of Democracy, Cook wants a Royal Court of elites.
Michael K: "It's odd that Chuck doesn't seem to know that. I have watched massive inflation for 60 years and it has been as harmful to the young as ZIRP is to the elderly.
We may still be headed for a crash but at least some manufacturing is coming back."
Trump deserves 95% of the credit for the current economy. If Hillary had one we would have continued with the 1 to 1.5% GDP growth on average as "the new normal".
The republican base knows the LLR Chuck's and Inga's and LLR Chuck's beloved MSNBC-ers are lying to them. It's really rather obvious.
There will be a "correction" at some point. How can there not be with the student debt bubble as well as the national debt already at 100% of annual GDP? Lets hope with a much more sound foundation of de-regulation, tax reform and executive agency policies making the US a much more business friendly environment the coming correction can be minimized to the extent possible.
Buckley will live forever for his statement "I would rather be ruled by the first 100 names in the NY telephone directory than the top 100 profs at Harvard."
Chuck, fopdoodle extraordinaire, mentions "college affordability" as if the government could create such a thing.
That reflects an exact 180 away from reality. Government is the driving force that has caused college tuition prices to outstrip the economy-wide inflation rate. The same is true for medical costs. Government causes the problem and then LLR fopdoodles come along to pretend that government can ameliorate the problem.
This illogic, offered by the self-identified-elites, is rejected.
because they agree with him on policy
Yes, the policies are right, and people are cautiously optimistic about execution. To their shame (or credit), Obama, Clinton, DNC, journolists, and domestic and foreign agents have created a wide berth for his administration.
Chuckles said ... "Trump's approval rating -- presiding over a beautiful economy that he inherited"
That is a very telling line Maxine.
Not to many people with a small amount of brains and honesty would credit Obama with our current economy, except for Life Long Democrats.
You know - the ones who served as GOP election judges/observers and never saw vote fraud in Detroit.
Birkel: "Chuck, fopdoodle extraordinaire, mentions "college affordability" as if the government could create such a thing."
Of course LLR Chuck mentions that.
It is one of Elizabeth Warren's top campaign themes and where there is a democrat campaign theme, LLR Chuck is always there to (in his mind no doubt, subtly) that narrative.
But only every single time.
Every. Single. Time.
None so blind as those who will not see.
Can't wait for November.
Francisco D: "That is a very telling line Maxine."
As LLR Chuck's desperation (mirroring open leftists/dems desperation) deepens, LLR Chuck often forgets what his role here is supposed to be and he lets the mask slip completely.
After his performance thus far on this thread I would imagine we will soon be seeing a significant uptick in those posters who sound remarkably, remarkably like LLR Chuck......
I think AllenS is on to something. We look at the integrity-free Trump haters like Chuck, and even they admit that they have to lie about Trump to criticize him. So we deplorable assume that the reality isn’t too bad.
DeplorableS
Gahrie said...
But the stock market began its climb under Obama. If you waited until the election of Trump, you missed out on massive gains:
Only because of massive injections of cash into the economy and the fact that there was no where else to invest your money.
Hmmm. Are you saying that investors shouldn't invest in a rising stock market, if it isn't being done in just the right way?
Should we be suspicious of the Trump-era market (continuing) boom if it is based on tax cuts producing massive deficits down the road?
Just speaking for myself (but I do not think I am unique), I voted for Trump but never really liked him, he was the lesser evil. As time has gone by I have seen some things to like and much to dislike or at least be concerned about.
But I still am "with him" if polled, because there is no better alternative. And with the Democrats getting ever more extreme on race baiting and identity politics, and now losing their minds on economic and national security issues, and with no Republicans showing the stomach to fight the way Trump does, I look to be stuck for a while. I do see Trump's flaws and am certainly approachable, but nobody is putting forth anything worth considering... so, here I am. He remains the lesser evil and as time goes by it looks less and less likely that either Party will come up with anything better than even this low bar.
So, don't ask why I "like" or "support" Trump, except in a context of "Whom do you prefer, "Trump or A." Which is a completely different question that "How can those idiots still support Trump?" I'm no idiot, and I will be for Trump until I have a reason not to be.
What I wouldn't give for another Scoop Jackson or Daniel Patrick Moynihan, let alone a Reagan or Eisenhower. But that ain't gonna happen.
"Why People Like Trump"
Very simple, really. He is seen telling truth to power. And tells us that the emperor is wearing no clothes.
"Trump's approval rating -- presiding over a beautiful economy that he inherited"
Such economic illiteracy. Our economy is going well right now largely because Trump's presidency has reduced the risk government will simply decide someone's business model should be eliminated by fiat.
With Democrats discussing among themselves which industry to attack next all businesses discounted long term cash flows at a greater rate because those might required a shorter period of return to make an investment. Who is going to start a new medical insurance company as Obama's supporters discuss how to put them out of business? Who is going to invest in a medical company as his supporters discuss that such revenue should be fully controlled by them and based solely on what they think you deserve? Only those who can make a return before that can plausibly happen. So naturally there's a bump when the far left leaves office but this represents the extent the economy was artificially depressed due to political threats. It's nothing they deserve credit for.
To a lesser extent the tax reduction helps the economy, but I think that's the minor portion of the pickup in growth.
Trump supporters should also keep in mind this is a wave not a permanent change. Right now we're seeing both current investment and investment which would have occurred over the last 8 years. But it won't take all that long until the backlog has been addressed and we return to a normalized growth pattern. At that point the GDP will drop so you shouldn't bet your credibility on maintaining it indefinitely.
Switch parties already Chuck, Democrats have been the party of the rich for a while. You must have missed the memo.
Should we be suspicious of the Trump-era market (continuing) boom if it is based on tax cuts producing massive deficits down the road?
Chuck sounds like "Root Canal Republican" Bob Dole, who delayed the tax cut long enough for Reagan to lose the Senate in 1982. That helped a lot.
If Donald Trump is going to shoot someone dead on 5th Avenue, is it too much to ask that it be Roger Cohen?
Michael K: "Chuck sounds like "Root Canal Republican" Bob Dole, who delayed the tax cut long enough for Reagan to lose the Senate in 1982. That helped a lot."
The 1982 loss was much more a result of Volcker's necessary strangulation of money supply via Fed monetary policy in order to squeeze out inflation, which I'm sure you recall reached 12% or so prior to Reagan's election.
But the stock market began its climb under Obama. If you waited until the election of Trump, you missed out on massive gains:
Poor Obama. Such a brilliant mind wasted on his impossibly poor sense of timing. Almost to the day the economy worked so hard to make him look bad. He inherited a mess the day he took office, suffered under the most sluggish recovery ever (despite all his brilliance). For the final act of insult equity markets rub it in by rallying minutes after the first open after the election of Trump the night before and charge hard into inauguration day. Now all the rubes give Trump credit. Sheesh...
If you want college affordability, get the USG out of the college biz as much as possible.
(eaglebeak)
I like Trump because he's very funny. Intentionally.
Also fearless.
Also, he loves the deplorables, which is a wonderful trait.
I think realistically, by the time that Trump was elected, we were finally shaking off the effects of the counterproductive Dem/Obama economic policies that had mired us in recession for 8 years, when we probably would have naturally rebounded from the crash of 2008 in maybe 2009 or so. What should have been a year or so recession, turned into an eight year recession through gross fiscal mismanagement on the part of the Dems and Obama. They might have known better, but the money was just too good, looting the federal treasury. Obama, intellectually incurious, and with no real trading or relevant experience, probably still, to this day, doesn't understand how badly he screwed up the economy, and, thus, tens of millions of American lives. No doubt, he probably believes that he saved the economy, instead of tanking it, because that is what his sycophants told him.
I recall Obama and Mooch gloating on how proud they were of the country not to be investing retirement money in equites...oh, just about the time in Spring of 2009 when he'd have looked like a genius if he'd encouraged it.
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