“Take Wisconsin, I just left Wisconsin,” Trump said at a campaign rally in Montana.Of course, the one state Reagan didn't win in 1984 was Minnesota, the home state of his opponent Walter Mondale. How does Trump not know that? And it wasn't the first time he made the mistake:
“Reagan had his big win. He won every state except one, the great state of Wisconsin,” Trump said. “I won Wisconsin, first time since Dwight Eisenhower in 1952."
Trump made a similar remark during an event in Wisconsin last week.He made the mistake right here in Wisconsin! How did no one correct him?!
"And I won Wisconsin. And I like Wisconsin a lot but we won Wisconsin. And Ronald Reagan, remember, Wisconsin was the state that Ronald Reagan did not win,” Trump said at the time.
I'd thought that Trump was proud of his knowledge of the states. It's part of the story that he figured out the Electoral College path to victory as Hillary Clinton was blundering into thinking a majority vote of the whole was all you need and you could just hang out in New York, California, and Massachusetts with all your friends.
And it really makes me worry that Trump doesn't have people around him who can keep him informed even with respect to embarrassingly bad misstatements of fact that he's making in public.
You know, out there in New York, California, and Massachusetts, they may think of the Midwest as a big undifferentiated chunk of flyover country, but to those of us who live here, our state (and even our region within the state) is quite specific.
The Bob Dylan lyric that seems to say otherwise:
Oh my name it is nothin’But that song is making a big show of nonspecificity. He doesn't even care about his own name within the mood he's spinning there. But Bob's Minnesotan. And he does specificity within the Midwest: "So I watched that sun come rising / From that little Minnesota town"... "Thought I'd shaken the wonder and the phantoms of my youth / Rainy days on the Great Lakes, walkin' the hills of old Duluth"...
My age it means less
The country I come from
Is called the Midwest
I’s taught and brought up there
The laws to abide
And that the land that I live in
Has God on its side
Posts
78 comments:
Ohio is undifferentiated from Indiana and Illinois in my mind, and I live in Ohio.
It's how big the farms are. Further west you get rectangular grid roads and mega-huge farms.
Wisconsin and Minnesota are summer mosquitos, ground water and too much tree cover.
There are plenty of Yoopers who think they live in Wisconsin.
rhhardin, bite your tongue. Only central and northwest Ohio are indistinguishable from Indiana and Illinois. Northeast Ohio is indistinguishable from Pennsylvania. Southeast is indistinguishable from West Virginia, and Southwest is indistinguishable from Kentucky.
Let me get this straight. Minnesota and Wisconson were once a small part of a large North West Territory, but they now claim to be separated into two States by that River which runs through it . But like the Old Man River himself , Trump he don't care. He just keeps rolling along.
"There are plenty of Yoopers who think they live in Wisconsin."
I saw a cartoon long ago that I always think of when I think of the Upper Peninsula. I think it was just a map of Wisconsin + the UP with the UP circled and — written in big letters — "What?! Did we lose a war?"
I have trouble differentiating mn and wi.
Not a lot but I do have to consciously remember it. Ok and ne, in and il wa and or too.
Since you brought it up, the quoted verse proves Bob Dylan is a National Socialist(NAZI)
God on our side = Gott mit uns
Don't criticize my logic or thinking powers. That has absolutely nothing to do with deciding someone is a National Socialist.
John Henry
And it really makes me worry that Trump doesn't have people around him who can keep him informed even with respect to embarrassingly bad misstatements of fact that he's making in public.
Pointing out factual errors is not a good way to score points with the boss. Anyway, no one expects Trump to be precise with his facts. Hyperbole is part of his modus operandi. It's not enough that the economy is doing well, it has to be the best economy ever. And as impressive as his electoral victory was, it has to surpass what Reagan did.
Seems that you need a tag for things that disturb you that other people don't know.
Forget it, he's rolling...
Trump is also proud of his knack for eluding Wiley MSM fact checking.
With 57 states, it's hard to remember all of them.
Gott mit uns
Bill Mauldin wrote in The Brass Ring; that while on the line, they'd hear the Krauts chanting Gott mit uns over at them. He said that one of his platoon mates (not knowing or caring German) starting shouting back at them; so you'd have this exchange every night:
Gott mit uns
We Got Gloves!
Gott mit uns
We Got Gloves!
Gott mit uns
We Got Gloves!
I thought Gott ist bei uns was WWI.
Could someone explain to me the animus between MN and WI? My sense is that the Gophers think the Badgers are rubes.
When my once blond & blue-eyed father was in Sweden as a Midshipmen, the natives asked if he was a Swede from Minnesota. But he was born 20 feet from where I sit in NC.
Wasn't Trump in Wisconsin recently for some Foxconn thing? He came to Duluth, too,.
You know, out there in New York, California, and Massachusetts, they may think of the Midwest as a big undifferentiated chunk of flyover country, but to those of us who live here, our state (and even our region within the state) is quite specific.
Out here in the Great Southwest, we feel that way about our states too, but how many Wisconsinites are even aware that New Mexico is one of the United States?
I'll try to explain it. I used to live in MN and since 1973 lived in WI, but was close enough to still work at my old job in MN.
Gophers vs Badgers
Twins vs Brewers
Vikings vs Packers
It's not much more than that. Especially the pro football angle.
I would give Trump a break on this one. It's hard to keep track of all 57 states.
Many years ago I was interviewing for a small town practice in northwestern Wisconsin just across the border from Minnesota. Several people were honestly curious as to whether I was Swedish or Norwegian.
(I was neither. My ancestry is British isles and some German.)
Could someone explain to me the animus between MN and WI? My sense is that the Gophers think the Badgers are rubes.
I grew up in Wisconsin but have lived in Minnesota for the last 25 years. There are plenty of reasons for the animus and I think most of it stems from the Twin Cities. Minnesota has most of its population in the metropolitan area, while Wisconsin's population is much more decentralized. The Twin Cities area fancies itself as an island of erudition in an otherwise benighted region. Rural Minnesota and rural Wisconsin aren't all that different, at least in the eastern side of the state. In western Minnesota, it's more like the Dakotas. As for Wisconsin, I always thought the decentralized nature of things added flavor. Green Bay is different than Sheybogan, which is different than Eau Claire, which is different from LaCrosse, which is different from Appleton. More importantly, having the industrial engine in Milwaukee and the state government and state university in Madison means economic and intellectual power is more diffused. Beyond that, the Gophers are getting tired of the Badgers kicking their butts in football -- the Badgers have won 14 in a row with no end in sight.
It is politics.
If you are on his side, no apology is necessary
If you are against him, no apology is adequate
In Illinois, we refer to a trip to Wisconsin as going "behind the cheddar curtain." We hate Wisconsin and they hate us. There is the usual sports stuff but a lot of Chicago types have second homes in Wisconsin and probably bring their condescending attitudes with them in relation to the Wisconsin locals.
I actually like most of the people I've met from Wisconsin so I am sympathetic to their take on Illinois, etc.
The craziest guys I have met in Chicago are usually from Michigan or Wisconsin. I always said that is Lake Michigan dries up and they get together the rest of us are done for. Thems is some crazy mofo's.
You know, out there in New York, California, and Massachusetts, they may think of the Midwest as a big undifferentiated chunk of flyover country, but to those of us who live here, our state (and even our region within the state) is quite specific.
Oh. You mean like how people out there in Wisconsin assume that California is all undifferentiated (LA, SF, Malibu palm trees and beaches).... and entirely full of liberals who all walk in lockstep and think the same progressive thoughts?
To those of us who live here, California, our regions within the state are quite specific too.
"And it really makes me worry that Trump doesn't have people around him who can keep him informed even with respect to embarrassingly bad misstatements of fact that he's making in public."
Oh, yeah, because Trump is going to sit down for a little geography lesson from his CoS.
Even then, of course, they won't know what's going to come out of his mouth next, for the simple reason that he doesn't know.
"The Twin Cities area fancies itself as an island of erudition in an otherwise benighted region." My impression as well.
In Jeffrey Morgenthaler's new book Drinking Distilled, there are nearly four flattering pages devoted to his affections for the way people from Wisconsin drink, because nobody-and I mean nobody-drinks as well as people from Wisconsin.
No mention of drinking in Minnesota.
FIDO's got it right. Trump knows the groups he can't win over, and courts the groups that the opposition took for granted. Energizing his base and gaining converts. The opposition may also be energizing its base, but in a way that gains no converts.
Wisconsinates are 52% denser than Minnesotites (105 vs 68.9), which explains why they earn 21% less money and therefore that Talking Heads song, "I wouldn't live there if you paid me", was about Wisconsin.
Besides...we DO know the difference between Minnesota and Wisconsin.
Minnesota is Fargo
Wisconsin is Cheese
Duh!!
:-D
"The Twin Cities area fancies itself as an island of erudition"
Koranic erudition.
People think we are the same because each state is on the other side of the Mississippi River from the other and each state had Brett Farve and all the ice ages. But in Wisconsin we had the ice ages and the Black Hawk war; in Minnesota they only had the ice ages. We have the Harley Davidson Museum; they have the Spam Museum. It's all like that.
In the nineteenth century St Paul and Minneapolis were outposts of Boston. The movers and shakers were a bunch of transplanted New Englanders, and they brought their attitude with them.
I saw a cartoon long ago that I always think of when I think of the Upper Peninsula. I think it was just a map of Wisconsin + the UP with the UP circled and — written in big letters — "What?! Did we lose a war?"
There actually was a very small, brief armed confrontation between Michigan and Ohio (supposedly the only casualty was a farmer's pig) over Toledo at the time Michigan became a state. In the end, Michigan lost Toledo but got the UP as compensation. It was another decade years before Wisconsin became a state and got the leftovers.
PackerBronco said...
I would give Trump a break on this one. It's hard to keep track of all 57 states.
I get it. Funny.
Now; which error was worse? Was either one worse? Maybe they are equivalent enough to be a wash. But Obama didn't escape ridicule; conservative media and all sorts of Obama-haters had fun with it at 44's expense. Is there any reason at all, that you would not expect Trump-haters to have fun with this at 45's expense?
In terms of beer alone, Wisconsin had the Milwaukee greats and a bunch of smaller breweries scattered throughout the state: Gottlieb Heilemann (brewed in God’s country); Leinenkegel and Point ((brewed Up North); Huber beer (from my birthplace), etc.
Minnesota had what? Hamm’s and Grainbelt?
Leinenkugel autocorrects to Leinenkegel, lol.
Uf Da!
My Norwegian relatives mostly live in Minn'sota and W'sconsin. They talk and look alike and almost all work hard at being nice.
I often can't tell the Cheeseheads from the 'Sotans.
Minnesota natives all sound like “Fargo”; Wisconsinites sound like Scott Walker. There’s a huge difference.
Trump is proud of his knowledge of many things he knows nothing about.
Wisconsin birthed the Republican Party, the Progressive Movement, and sewer Socialism. They were rather diverse politically, much like Germany.
Minnesota only has the DFL which plays by itself in its own league.
And Alabama isn't Mississippi, either. But, do you think anyone cares, about our hurt, about our feelings?
No. Not at all.
Sob.
Blogger Darkisland said...”I have trouble differentiating mn and wi.”
You’re not an American, you’re not expected to.
Chuck,
As commenters to this blog have repeatedly pointed out, the difference is one of expectation borne of each individual's promoted competencies. You promote one as a brilliant intellectual, exclusively so as he had no accomplishments outside his supposed intellect. The other promotes himself as a freewheeling businessman prone to hyperbole. You necessarily develop different expectations.
Getting the details wrong directly undercuts the one's supposed competency. The other not so much. Even you should understand this much.
But of course, Trump's opponents will have fun with this. Why not? It won't be effective though.
”Could someone explain to me the animus between MN and WI? My sense is that the Gophers think the Badgers are rubes.”
Inferiority complex.
”Minnesota is Fargo”
Well played!
“Could someone explain to me the animus between MN and WI? My sense is that the Gophers think the Badgers are rubes.”
Friendly ethnic strife, mostly now forgotten. The real animus Wisconsinites feel is towards FIBs.
People who use Twitter are morons.
Trump uses Twitter.
Donc...
Here's Ann, pulling our leg:
And it really makes me worry that Trump doesn't have people around him who can keep him informed even with respect to embarrassingly bad misstatements of fact that he's making in public.
Ann must be rolling on the floor laughing after she types stuff like that, because as she and her readers have so often noted, she and they couldn't care less about whether the president is actually in possession of the facts of any matter, much less the trivial difference between Wisconsin and Minnesota. Ann has praised the president over and over for his cleverness, his brilliance, his wit, and above all his honesty. The other day she slipped a bit when she noted the the misspelling in the tweet in which the president bragged about how well he writes, but she's right back at it today, noting approvingly that what appear to be racist and inaccurate attacks on Warren and Waters are justified because
"Trump knows all that, I assume, and he means to go right there and create political energy"
Ann, such a kidder!
...that you would not expect Trump-haters to have fun with this at 45's expense
Haters can try to make hay but as has been suggested nobody outside of WI/MN gives a damn. It's kind of funny to think of them as interchangeable, in fact.
With 57 states the best one can hope for is he was dreaming of ketchup when he said it.
DBQ SAYS:
Oh. You mean like how people out there in Wisconsin assume that California is all undifferentiated (LA, SF, Malibu palm trees and beaches).... and entirely full of liberals who all walk in lockstep and think the same progressive thoughts?
Don't forget dual electric outlets in every garage to charge his Tesla and her Prius
As a westerner I never got WI mixed up with Minn. One was settled by Germans, the other by Scandinavians. WI never had much problem with the Indians, Minn had the great Sioux uprising. WI had La Fallotte (sic), Minn - Humphrey, Mondale,
States I mixed up when younger: Al vs. Mississippi, Maryland vs. Del, Vermont vs. NH, and NY and NJ.
rhhardin said...
Ohio is undifferentiated from Indiana and Illinois in my mind, and I live in Ohio.
Be careful with that; the democrats might combine the states and get rid of a few unfriendly Senators and electoral college votes.
Regarding Calif. when i lived in the Bay area, and talked to Easterners, they all thought the whole SF bay area was like SF. And that all of California was just SF (lots of liberal gays) or SoCal (Beaches/Hollywood) - the rest of the state was invisible.
But then most Westerners think NYC is just Manhattan and archie bunker.
One of my college interns many years ago asked me how I got a degree in Oceanography from Oregon State. It seemed in her mind, all the "O" states were stuck in the middle of the country.
Full Moon said Don't forget dual electric outlets in every garage to charge his Tesla and her Prius
Yes. This stupid idea completely highlights the diversity within the State. The people who rule the blue areas of the State like SF and Silicon Valley, may think that forcing new construction to add the additional expense of electric car charging stations to garages is a swell idea. It might even be a good solution in the congested Bay Area.
I've said, IF I still lived there, I would probably have one electric car for local transportation and keep a 'real' car as a spare for long distance transportation and ability to haul things around.
In the more remote and rural areas, where the likelihood of even ONE electric car, in the near future, is slim to none (for all sorts of reasons, the mandate is just useless additional expenses dreamed up by transplants from other areas who refuse to acknowledge that every place isn't the same.
Even within the States there is a huge dichotomy of views about almost everything.
So back to Althouse's point. Viewing the residents of any one state as being a cohesive whole is not accurate in the least.
Another great rivalry is Nebraska Iowa. A famous T Shirt shows a map of Nebraska and Iowa with a westerly arrow, "I'm with stupid."
All of these comments here remind me of this famous map of Ohio:
https://m.clevescene.com/scene-and-heard/archives/2014/09/05/this-map-of-ohio-is-half-funny-and-half-accurate
Some fallout from the thrownout:
KS terminates fraternity chapter after TV misses woman
Forgot: The Wisconsin State Journal reported that two 20-year-old fraternity members were cited for disorderly conduct.
In honor of National Lampoon's map of Minnebaska, the 2nd order Markov chain provides some comfortably familiar names for new states:
Alahominoissetts
Alawaroliforgina
Aridahomina
Califorada
Califoraska
Caroliforgin
Carylabampshigand
Carylvandia
Carylvansissouri
Colinoisconsachinia
Dakotahominoisco
Delabampshigansylas
Delashigansachire
Florassisissinnsissian
Georgingtontucky
Hampshigansachigania
Hawarylvansylvado
Illiforgia
Islabama
Islassachigan
Islawaroliniana
Kennectichigana
Mainoiscona
Maregontand
Maroliforth
Marolornia
Marylawainia
Marylvadahoma
Mexas
Mexicona
Mexiconsaskana
Mingtontania
Miniansachiniandia
Minoisisconta
Minoississina
Missachusey
Mississississaska
Nebradahode
Nevansylawaina
Norashigana
Norginoiscon
Norizonnessas
Ohingtontucky
Ohiregonnsachusey
Ohiregontucky
Oklansylvada
Oklawarolinest
Oregonnesota
Pennecticuth
Pennessachigan
Pennessissachire
Souisconsassiania
Sourizonnest
Tennectichusee
Tennessashirgina
Tentahoma
Texichusetts
Washirginessas
Wyomingtonsachirgiand
Wyomingtonsylabama
Wyominoissachirgiana
Yorniansachio
Blogger David Begley said...Could someone explain to me the animus between MN and WI? My sense is that the Gophers think the Badgers are rubes.
I am from Minnesota and I think many Minnesotans (especially Twin Citians) think they are better than everyone else, and have a smug sanctimonious attitude for that reason. They brag about their schools and government even though they are no longer ranked where they used to be before becoming more diversified. And frankly, the small towns and rural areas are keeping the rankings higher than they would otherwise be.
Wisconsinites like to think of Minnesota as Wisconsin Jr.
Understandable. With 57 states, it's easy to get them confused.
Poor LLR Chuck and Nancy Pelosi.
These are dark days indeed for them!
Foxconn cranking up billions in WI investments leading to over 10,000 jobs in WI. All Nancy and LLR Chuck and Maxine can point to is a 1984 campaign results minor point flub by Trump.
LOL
And with the jobs report out showing record U6 employment and workers who had given up hope under obama now jumping back in AND rising wages....well, Pickering and LLR Chucks angst is easy to understand.
So Trump misspoke about Wisconsin and Minnesota? Did he miss speak or did the writer of his speech make the mistake. Hell, we've seen this with other Presidents! Big Deal!
Come on, Trump. We have feelings up here. Wisconsin isn't Minnesota.
And now everyone is talking about how Trump carried Wisconsin ("first since 84!") and almost carried Minnesota. He points and they stampede. Brilliant.
I have no feeling one way or the other about Minnesota, but I believe Wisconsin is great. So many reasons why. If I could think of a better place I might move there, but I can’t.
States I mixed up when younger: Al vs. Mississippi, Maryland vs. Del, Vermont vs. NH, and NY and NJ.
How "younger mikeski" kept them straight on geography tests:
MS/AL: MS has to be on the left since it has to be by the River, which ends in Louisiana.
VT/NH: VT is the one shaped like a "V". New Hamster is the other one.
The other states don't look alike. (And I'd been to Wyoming, so I could get WY/CO right.)
Were not out there u are you deplorable flyovers
He made the mistake right here in Wisconsin! How did no one correct him?!
And it really makes me worry that Trump doesn't have people around him who can keep him informed even with respect to embarrassingly bad misstatements of fact that he's making in public.
OMG.
“I have no feeling one way or the other about Minnesota, but I believe Wisconsin is great. So many reasons why. If I could think of a better place I might move there, but I can’t.”
Indeed! Me too.
You should try living in NH and seeing how many people get it wrong.
Down here in Texas we consider everything above Colorado's ski areas to be the Great Frozen North, and maybe Canadian.
"If I could think of a better place I might move there, but I can’t."
There's no place like home.
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