The non-profit will be a central source of polling, advice on messaging, data targeting, and think-tank research for a ragtag band of right-wingers who are surging all over Europe, in many cases without professional political structures or significant budgets.Meddling!
Bannon’s ambition is for his organization ultimately to rival the impact of Soros’s Open Society, which has given away $32 billion to largely liberal causes since it was established in 1984....
ADDED: I looked up "ragtag" in the OED and learned that the earlier phrase was "tag and rag" — and insult for "all the components of the masses or those of lower social status; a gathering of people held in low esteem; all and any, every man Jack, everybody, Tom, Dick, and Harry." Example:
1610 A. Cooke Pope Joane in Harl. Misc. (Malh.) IV. 95 That you have made Levites..of the scurvy and scabbed, of the lowest of the people, tag and rag...Also, "ragtag" originally appeared in the longer phrase, "rag-tag and bob-tail" (or "rag, tag and bob-tail") — "A disreputable or disorganized group of people; the lowest element of a community; the riff-raff or rabble."
18.. R. Southey Devil's Walk xxiii With music of fife and drum, And a consecrated flag, And shout of tag and rag, And march of rank and file.
1725 W. Teague Let. in Mist's Weekly Jrnl. 2 Oct. My Assistance in this Piece of Impudence, if it should ever succeed, will be esteemed Persons of Worth and Reputation, especially if they should be indicted, though they are Rag-Tag, and Bob-tail, and be thought witty....The OED has that as the earliest example, but I easily found an earlier example in Samuel Pepys diary, Tuesday 6 March 1659/60 (except that he puts the "tag" before the "rag"):
... I went to see Mrs. Jem, at whose chamber door I found a couple of ladies, but she not being there, we hunted her out, and found that she and another had hid themselves behind a door. Well, they all went down into the dining-room, where it was full of tag, rag, and bobtail, dancing, singing, and drinking, of which I was ashamed, and after I had staid a dance or two I went away....AND: As long as I'm looking up words, I looked up "meddle," which basically means "mix." I was amused to see that one meaning is "To have sexual intercourse (with)." This is an old, old, old meaning:
c1400 (▸c1378) Langland Piers Plowman (Laud 581) (1869) B. xi. 335 (MED) Alle other bestes Medled nouȝte wyth here makes þat with fole were....
?a1450 (▸1422) Lydgate Serpent of Div. (McClean) 63 (MED) Hit sempte vnto hym in his slepe þat he medled fleschely with his owne moder....
1695 W. Congreve Love for Love i. xi. 10 I never could meddle with a Woman, that had to do with any body else.
Posts
201 comments:
1 – 200 of 201 Newer› Newest»Bannon’s ambition routinely outweighs his talents.
Yes, meddling. Presumably, he hopes to gain respect in Europe [not bloody likely!] that he was unable to garner [heh] here in the States.
The revolt is pro-diffidence, which does not come through to Bannon.
Oh, the Europeans can shift just fine for themselves on populist movements. I note that Austria declined to require Jews to register to purchase kosher meat. But they were thinking about it.
Bannon v Soros. Might be entertaining. Soros has more loot but is an old man
I don't really see the problem with speaking to affect politics in a foreign country. People there can speak to discredit you as not really understanding or caring about them, but what is the ethical issue? It's not like trying to vote where you're not a citizen.
That newly discovered meaning of meddling gives pause to what the creators of Scooby Doo were really promoting. Those meddling kids indeed.
I never could meddle with a Woman, that had to do with any body else.
I never cared who had her first as long as I could have her last.
Ann,
So you are ok with Russia meddling in US ele tions?
Via Fa ebook ads and Tweets?
What annon is doing in no different than what all the fascist's hair on fire here in the USA.
I have no problem with either and assume you don't.
John Henry
The curse of having an innocent and attractive wife. Everybody meddles with her. Les Liaisons Dangeroeuses.
I never could meddle with a Woman, that had to do with any body else.
“It doesn’t matter where’ve you’ve been, as long as it was deep, yeah.”
The Putin/Trump intelligence sharing has totally frightened the entire DC corruption world. Putin has dirt alright, and its on the Dems and the Never Trumpers. Talking to Putin is not Treason; it is the Dems and Never Trumpers selling out the USA for Russian cash that is Treason.
I lost a lot of respect for bannon after gabbing to Wolff, but the antiestablishment
forces need an ally
And he cites Satan as an influence! At least Milton's version of Satan. "I'd rather reign in hell, than serve in heaven."
You know Satan's a bad guy, right?
Also, about the stubble. I know you're going for Don Johnson. But you do not look like Don Johnson. You look like a drunk guy (drunk on power!) who doesn't trust himself with a razor.
Anyway, Europe, not sure if you're paying attention. Just to be clear on the metaphors. He's saying that Donald Trump is God. And he, Steve Bannon, is Satan. And he's been kicked out of heaven. So he's making a new home in hell. Which is you, Europe. You're hell.
I know you haven't been to church in a while, Europe. But you might want to read up on Satan, hell, and damnation. Because I don't know if you want that.
This will end well.
I don't really see the problem with speaking to affect politics in a foreign country.
Tell that to the Democrats.
From The Guardian:
“You’ve got to really examine the flyover states,” said Anthony Scaramucci, the former White House communications director. “They couldn’t care less about what happened in Russia. They love this guy, they think this guy’s for them. These are low information emotional voters and they like what they see in the president. They think he’s working for them.”
Well meddle me!
Nope, just doesn't seem to have the same effect.
The Movement is a shitty name for a foundation.
Bet Bannon lands on his fundament.
Blogger Big Mike said...
Bannon’s ambition routinely outweighs his talents
I disagree. Watch the Bannon interview with Euronews.
I don't watch many videos, especially long ones. This is worth watching the whole thing.
These are low information emotional voters and they like what they see in the president. They think he’s working for them.”
chuck, I have three degrees and I think he's working for me.
I guess you prefer Hillary or Biden or Ocasio-Cortez.
I don't really see the problem with speaking to affect politics in a foreign country.
Bill Clinton sent his people to the UK to get Tony Blair elected. They even reworked Bubba's speeches for the UK market and Blair delivered them.
MEGA would have been a great name--Make Europe Great Again.
Stick with what worked.
"I don't really see the problem with speaking to affect politics in a foreign country."
Thats's because you don't see problems situationally and strategically, like you should.
Meddling is a tool: pro-Dem meddlers are fine, Dems meddling abroad is fine, Soros meddling everywhere is super-fine, Russians meddling wth Dems is wrong, Bannon boosting righties is wrong.
I think the problem started when Neil Kinnock meddled with Joe Biden's campaign in 1988.
I don't really see the problem with speaking to affect politics in a foreign country.
The left is upset with Russia because of its spying on Hillary Clinton, gaining access to all of her e-mails, and exposing them via Wikileaks. Whether that is actually what happened doesn't really matter. Anyway, that's why the left is so worked up about Russia now. Not because they bought Facebook ads, or whatever. It was the espionage and the exposure of Hillary Clinton, and the loss of the election, that angers them.
They yell "treason" now because Russia's spying helped Trump get elected.
Of course there was no conspiracy. That's been idiotic from day one. But the idea that Russia's spying on Hillary Clinton helped sway the election is not a stupid idea.
Gallup had a poll that said less than 1% see Russia as a huge issue.
So the other 99% are low info voters?
https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2018-07-19/gallup-shows-how-much-americans-really-care-about-situation-russia
What surprised me is with the msm and anti Trumpers turning it up to “13” on Rusdisn collusion “traitor”, the needle of public opinion is not moving.
And trump just sent $200 million of military aid to the Ukraine.
Althouse said "I don't really see the problem with speaking to affect politics in a foreign country. People there can speak to discredit you as not really understanding or caring about them, but what is the ethical issue? It's not like trying to vote where you're not a citizen."
It's like the 1st Principle in Star Trek. Don't mess with local cultures. I live in Ukraine a good part of the time, but I would not consider offering them political advice. Wouldn't be prudent.
I have often spoken and taken other actions to affect politics in a foreign country (this one), albeit on a much smaller scale than Mr. Bannon seems to intend.
Oh, on a related topic, should I register to vote, as an alien, in San Francisco?
They just made it possible for aliens to vote for the local school board.
I will count opinions here and be guided thereby.
I asked earlier but got a mixed reaction - two yea, two nay, though that was a double vote. Since SF has a tradition of corrupt polls, flying voters and double voting, duplicate ballots will be counted as valid.
Ann Althouse said...
"I don't really see the problem with speaking to affect politics in a foreign country. People there can speak to discredit you as not really understanding or caring about them, but what is the ethical issue? It's not like trying to vote where you're not a citizen."
Well, in some of them it's illegal. Mexico, for example, strictly forbids non-citizens participating in Mexican politics.
buwaya,
I think you should.
To vote in national elections it’s right that you should have to become a citizen. But there’s no such thing as state and local citizenship. The permanent resident aliens I know are paying local taxes (a lot!) and are as much a part of this community as I am, and I think they should have a say.
(I also think this should extend only to legal resident aliens, but I can’t imagine certain jurisdictions discriminating on such a cruelly arbitrary basis....)
buwaya said...
"Oh, on a related topic, should I register to vote, as an alien, in San Francisco?
They just made it possible for aliens to vote for the local school board."
That depends. Is it clear to all that you are registering as an alien, to vote only in school board elections? Or would you effectively be participating in a scheme to allow aliens to vote in all elections?
Its San Francisco, of course its a scheme. What the scheme is for is the question.
Its also very San Francisco for the schemers themselves to be uncertain as to the purpose of the scheme.
Mexico, for example, strictly forbids non-citizens participating in Mexican politics.
Yet they have a long history of foreign Lefty advisors coming in to grow Leftist organizations and bring Lefty politicians into power. Leon Trotsky wasn't there for the tacos and his killer Ramón Mercader–was a Spanish communist and probable agent of Soviet leader Joseph Stalin. They were both working the crowds, so to speak.
“I don't really see the problem with speaking to affect politics in a foreign country. People there can speak to discredit you as not really understanding or caring about them, but what is the ethical issue? It's not like trying to vote where you're not a citizen.”
What if the entity who is meddling tries to make themselves appear as to be citizens of the country in which they are meddling in order to deceive the populace? Is that acceptable? That is what Russia did.
What if the entity who is meddling tries to make themselves appear at to be citizens of the country in which they are meddling in order to deceive the populace? Is that acceptable? That is what Russia did.
And who did they swing exactly and how many? You? Me? Anyone? They have you, Inga, to say the same shit and LLRs like Chuck, too.
Buwaya,
Be careful of what you are registering for. Remember the unforgivable sin in applying for citizenship is ever having claimed to be an US citizen.
But if the registration form and the law is clear, then why not vote if you want to. Why censor yourself.
"What if the entity who is meddling tries to make themselves appear as to be citizens of the country in which they are meddling in order to deceive the populace? Is that acceptable? That is what Russia did."
I am shocked that countries try to deceive other countries. That never happened until Trump was elected.
A little historical and practical perspective from the Left might ease the hysteria.
The most popular Lefty trick is to pretend they are one of your group. "I've been a Republican all my life, yet I can't support this candidate." Joe Wilson pulled that trick when the Bush people started to criticize him and the NYT ran with it. Turns out he never voted Republican--he just gave a few bucks years before when he was up for a job. Comey and Mueller have been using it. Predictably, Comey comes out and tells people to vote Democratic to keep him out of the pokey.
”A little historical and practical perspective from the Left might ease the hysteria.”
That assumes the hysteria is sincere. It is not.
Clarifying issues involved makes for honest, vigorous, information loaded decision making.
In the game of fooling some of the people offering information is transgressive.
Russians intruded MSM citadel and tore it down.
Trump's Twittering is preventing rebuild.
What if the entity who is meddling tries to make themselves appear as to be citizens of the country in which they are meddling in order to deceive the populace?
My favorite thing about the 11+ million people who are in the country illegally is that none of them would do that.
"Right-wing populist revolts" (that is, pushback from normal people holding what would have been considered common-sense middle-of-the-road political attitudes not so long ago) are definitely in need of better organization and long-term strategy. And money. Lots of money. (All the big bux support Clown World.)
A new long march through the institutions is in order. Don't know how useful somebody like Bannon is for that project.
What if the entity who is meddling tries to make themselves appear at to be citizens of the country in which they are meddling in order to deceive the populace? Is that acceptable? That is what Russia did.
What so we're back to the Jesus arm wrestling Satan FB ads as some vital threat to the US.
But the US coverly and illegally funding an Israeli organization to topple the US Ally and elected Prime Minister of Israel is OK.
You people have gone mad.
You have to realize that the ruling elites in Europe think of the people of Europe as ignorant peasants. Since the peasants are ignorant, if they vote the wrong way you just ignore the vote, or keep voting until your side wins. Then you stop voting for all time on the matter.
That assumes the hysteria is sincere. It is not.
This. It's just the latest narrative the Left is trying to stop losing ground to Trump. And for the November elections. Right now the average person would rather vote for a dead possum than a Democrat--once they hear the Democrat's plans.
Suppose that the Constitution had set aside second Tuesday in November for non-citizen persons to express political opinions etc. Relevant to previous week happenings.
As they're subject to jurisdiction of etc.
"should I register to vote, as an alien, in San Francisco?"
If it is legal, then yes. You clearly have experience with, and opinions on, the public education systems in that area, and they are seeking input from people such as you.
A little historical and practical perspective from the Left might ease the hysteria.
First, for the Left, history begins anew each day. My Lefty friends are perplexed when I ask them when Russia became the enemy. Russia has always been the enemy!
Secondly the answer is simple mass hysteria. Modern media allow the hysterics to reinforce each other and spread their illness. The Left are completely irrational right now, and frankly there is nothing we can do about it. The scary thing is: What happens when there is a red wave in November?
"who did they swing exactly and how many?"
Didn't Inga say she voted for Jill Stein? Maybe Inga was the single vote that the Russians influenced, and all her sturm und drang since then is the sound of a guilty conscience.
I also think Bill of Rights invalidated threefifth provision.
Without addressing himself to Bannon, Jonah Goldberg answers in National Review Online:
I’m worried that we are entering a very dangerous chapter in world history. The idea that international institutions, built on the blood-stained rubble of two world wars, must give way to some glorious new era of nationalism is inflaming the minds of people across the West. It’s a very weird epidemic of Year Zero thinking on a global level. As a Burkean, I’m open to reform: gradual, thoughtful, incremental reform that improves on what we have already built. But the recent blunderbuss rhetoric isn’t about that. It’s a nearest-weapon-to-hand defense of a president who doesn’t understand how NATO even works.
...
There is this bizarre unstated assumption in so much of this nationalism talk that these U.S.-founded international institutions haven’t served our interests. That’s dangerous nonsense. Could they have served our interests better? Sure. There’s always room for better. But were we suckers for creating them? Of course not. To paraphrase the president, a prosperous and peaceful Europe is a good thing, not a bad thing.
There is zero evidence that wiping away these institutions would be a step forward to some utopian New World Order. It would more likely be a return to Old World Disorder of wars, protectionism, and the logic of a global prison yard.
Blogger JPS said...
But there’s no such thing as state and local citizenship.
American's were state citizens before the United States even existed. It is the United States not the United Provinces. After the Revolution, the various states were "states" in the full meaning of the word. Independent, autonomous and sovereign entities.
The Federal Constitution recognized this implicitly and, with the 14th Amendment, explicitly:
Section 1. All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside.
I read that as requiring US citizenship to be a state citizen. IANAL so perhaps Ann, who taught Constitutional law can chime in. I do know that some say one can be a citizen of a state without being a citizen of the US.
In any event, I think the law Buwaya is asking about permits illegal aliens to vote. So are you still in favor?
As far as Buwaya voting, I already said he should. The voting system in most states is so illegitimate that nobody should be excluded. Legal, illegal aliens, unknown persons, kids, cats and dogs... Let everyone vote. Me, if I lived in the upper 50 I would not even register.
I'm not in favor of allowing non-citizens to vote at all at any government level. If you don't care enough to become a citizen, you don't get a say. If you want a say, become a citizen. I am, in general, against extended legal residency for aliens. At 5 years, or perhaps 10, you should either become a citizen or go home. And if you become a citizen, you should renounce any other citizenships you make have.
In or out. Make a decision. Buwaya, I'm looking at you. I would like to see you as a citizen. You seem to be the kind of person we need here. OTOH, I understand you have been here 20 years or so(?). Time to choose. In or out.
Chuck is now supporting open border, amnesty-loving, NWO Globalists openly.
About time. Honesty is the best policy.
And now we can call you a cocksucker without qualms.
Goldberg makes a critical error, in assuming that the old institutions are anything like the current state. There would be no room for a De Gaulle in the current state. Orban and the Poles are very mild Gaullists.
And for that matter modern Nato is nothing like old Nato. Eastern Europe would like to see old Nato back.
States can, under federal law, allow aliens to vote in state elections. Aliens, under federal law, cannot vote in federal elections.
The problem in California, as I understand it, is that they are supposed to separate aliens from citizens in the voting booths but don't. Thus, once an alien is registered, there is nothing other than their better nature to prevent them from voting for Rep, Sen or Prez.
John Henry
Grifter.
I hate to drag out the ugly American stereotype but... Steve Bannon does not speak any foreign languages. He has never lived in a foreign country. If I'm wrong about either of these things, his knowledge and experience wasn't significant enough to feature in his bio. So now he's an expert in Eastern European right wing populism?
Actual Europeans aren't experts in right wing populism. That's why their politics are in such flux right now. There's a lot of political energy, but no coherent program. Good luck making sense of all that while staying at a Holiday Inn and eating at McDonald's because you have no actual affinity for the culture.
Blogger Inga said...
What if the entity who is meddling tries to make themselves appear as to be citizens of the country in which they are meddling in order to deceive the populace? Is that acceptable? That is what Russia did.
You mean with the terabytes of Russian language posts? Yeah, first thing I think of when I see something in Russian is "Now there is a true American."
John Henry
JPS said...
"To vote in national elections it’s right that you should have to become a citizen. But there’s no such thing as state and local citizenship. The permanent resident aliens I know are paying local taxes (a lot!) and are as much a part of this community as I am, and I think they should have a say."
>>>>>if they are legal residents, maybe. But that's not what we're talking about here.
SFO is allowing "non-citizen residents" who have children to vote in school elections. That includes illegals.
https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/san-francisco-voter-registration/
And how, one asks, will local officials cull out those legal and illegal aliens when the election is for state, local and national office, all on one day? Will they offer separate ballots depending on one's citizenship/non-citizenship? Because you know that is coming, in places like California.
I can see a legal challenge to vote tallies for POTUS in those states that allow non-citizens to vote. It will be a mess.
(I also think this should extend only to legal resident aliens, but I can’t imagine certain jurisdictions discriminating on such a cruelly arbitrary basis....)
>>>>Surely, you are being snarky here, but in moonbat-heavy Cali, that's going to be their argument. You can count on it.
I am a loyal subject of my king, as all my line have been. We have served our nation in some capacity (even through civil wars, on whatever side) in every generation, and I have no intention of breaking the chain.
The idea that international institutions, built on the blood-stained rubble of two world wars, must give way to some glorious new era of nationalism is inflaming the minds of people across the West.
What Goldberg is missing is that many (most?) of us never gave up nationalism. We've never seen these institutions as anything more than tools to serve American policy. Those institutions were built with the money of American taxpayers and the vast majority of them spend most of their time talking about how evil the United States is.
By the way...where did nationalism die? Did it die in Russia? Did it die in China? They tried real hard to kill it in Europe, but did they succeed? Latin America is extremely nationalistic...they go to war with each other over soccer games.
There is zero evidence that wiping away these institutions would be a step forward to some utopian New World Order. It would more likely be a return to Old World Disorder of wars, protectionism, and the logic of a global prison yard.
Nobody is talking about Utopia, chuck, except the DSA. Stop lying.
I really getting tired of your angry, obscene non sequitur comments.
Goldberg has good NeverTrump credentials as he and Lowry have destroyed most of what used to be a pretty good magazine.
I also think Bill of Rights invalidated threefifth provision.
No, the civil war invalidated the 3/5 provision.
" So now he's an expert in Eastern European right wing populism?"
Was Alexis de Tocqueville an American ?
Maybe the Europeans who are trying to figure out how to save their countries from Merkelism are asking for help ?
Zach,
I don't know if Bannon speaks any other languages but I would not go by his wikipedia bio. There is no mention of GW Bush's Spanish fluency in his bio, either.
President Obama spent 8 of his formative years growing up in Indonesia, with an Indonesian stepfather and somehow never learned to speak the language. AFIK he is only fluent in English. Some might say, away from TOTUS, only marginally.
I would also second Michael K's recommendation on the Bannon video. Assuming it is the same one that I saw and commented on Thursday.
John HEnry
buwaya said...
I am a loyal subject of my king, as all my line have been. We have served our nation in some capacity (even through civil wars, on whatever side) in every generation, and I have no intention of breaking the chain.
Unless you are here as a diplomat or otherwise in the employ of your king, bullshit.
If you were a "loyal subject" you would be in your home country under your king's jurisdiction. Not here, under US jurisdiction.
John Henry
"What if the entity who is meddling tries to make themselves appear as to be citizens of the country in which they are meddling in order to deceive the populace? Is that acceptable? That is what Russia did."
In a system of free speech, there is a lot of lying and misrepresentation and use of pseudonyms and so forth. We need to be resilient about dealing with speech. Unless you know what something is, be skeptical. I put my hopes in American getting smart and competent in handling informations. If that doesn't work too well, we can't have a democracy.
The idea that Russia should behave better... when we're just talking about speech... I don't get it.
BTW: The key in Buwaya's not is "subject"
Americans are not subjects of anyone and have not been for almost 2 and a half centuries.
We are citizens.
Sad.
John Henry
Goldberg is correct that we are entering a dangerous time. The US is rapidly losing its economic position. This is leading to a loss of its military predominance. The US is becoming less capable of deterring challengers. When you have many powers it is unstable.
Much of the sturm und drang is the awakening to this understanding. It requires changes to alliances and economic arrangements. Some powerful people resist, motivated by their interest in the old order, or rather what the old order has degenerated into.
This leads to a split between conservatives. You have the reactionaries and the blinkered victims, the Vendeens/Chouans or those who went passively to the guillotine, of Millan Astray or Unamuno (both of the "generation of '98").
The Spanish motto is "Plus Ultra" - go beyond. It is un-Spanish to be bound to a place. In Spanish tradition Spain is whatever is under a Spaniards foot.
(eaglebeak)
I never read creepy Michael Wolff's book about Trump et al. in the White House, but I did read a Times of London review of it which had this memorable quote in it:
TRUMP TO BANNON:
"Take a shower, Steve. You've worn those pants for six days."
This post and comment thread was my week basically. I love, love, love me some Sam Pepys, and use his diary regularly at work. And I spent yesterday at our state Archives combing through Naturalization papers from the eastern District of PA. Some really neat stuff from the 1790s.
Bannon’s idea is more likely intended as hysteria-chum for EuroIngas than as anything that will ever see the light of day. The choice of the sinister sounding “The Movement” should be a dead giveaway to the thoughtful. Trump learned from Bannon, Bannon learned from Trump.
"There is zero evidence that wiping away these institutions would be a step forward to some utopian New World Order"
Goldberg does not make an argument in good faith.
1. No one is proposing "wiping away" these institutions.
2. He does not specify "these" institutions--does the UN serve US interests as well as NATO? Does the WTO?
3. No one is arguing for "some utopian New World Order"--if anything, a harsh, non-utopian realism is taking hold.
4. There is non-zero evidence that many of the post-WWII institutions do not serve US interests today as well as they did at the outset. What "gradual" changes would a "Burkean" conservative propose? How exactly would they differ from Trump's actual, thus far modest steps? For example, should we rejoin the UN Human Rights Council? Should we allow NATO partners not to meet their stated commitment? Should we allow China to keep stealing intellectual property while remaining a WTO member in good standing?
President Obama spent 8 of his formative years growing up in Indonesia, with an Indonesian stepfather and somehow never learned to speak the language. AFIK he is only fluent in English. Some might say, away from TOTUS, only marginally.
And Obama would have been a fool to think he had any particular knowledge or affinity for Indonesian politics beyond what he picked up from NPR or reading the newspaper.
In fact, you could make a pretty credible case that Obama's foreign policy screwups came from thinking that he had some unusual insight into the Muslim world from growing up in Indonesia -- despite the fact that Indonesia is culturally different from the Middle East, and despite the fact that the Muslim world in general has been going through constant religious strife for the last generation.
Politics is incredibly local. Have you seen the Russian facebook ads?
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/11/01/us/politics/russia-2016-election-facebook.html
Did they seem persuasive to you? Or did they seem like a clueless foreigner who heard that conservative Americans like Jesus and hate Hillary, and went with that? Yet I'll venture that Russians have been exposed to a thousand times more information about American political culture than, Americans have about the culture of Hungary that elected Orban.
I put my hopes in American getting smart and competent in handling informations. If that doesn't work too well, we can't have a democracy.
That fear is precisely why we don't have a democracy. The truth in the fear is why things have gotten worse politically the more we move from a republic to a democracy.
My guess: Bannon has the ear of some right-wing donors, but very little influence in the US. His claim to fame is betting on Trump early, but he's out of favor at the White House and has no prospects for turning that around. He wants to keep the pipeline open before the donors get bored.
European politics is going through some turmoil that has vaguely Trumpian overtones. So, solution: give me some money and I'll go do stuff in Europe!
It's a grift. He's not starting from things he's good at and raising money to do them. He's starting from a desire to have money and influence, and dreaming up projects that might give him some.
Eventually, someone will start using deplorables in place of rag tag group.
Bannon’s ambition is for his organization ultimately to rival the impact of Soros’s Open Society, which has given away $32 billion to largely liberal causes since it was established in 1984....
Just out of curiosity, is anyone aware of Soros spending any money on any non-liberal (Leftwing) causes?
$32 billion is an awful lot of foreign meddling all over the world.....
Eventually, someone will start using deplorables in place of rag tag group.
I bet my money on the bobtail nag, somebody bet on the bay.
Chuck: "...Jonah Goldberg answers in National Review Online:"
There are some really great parodists of cuckservatives out there, but none of them can touch the sublime self-parody you serve up here, week in, week out.
For Americans of Bannon's age, "ragtag" invokes the noble, almost certainly doomed, flight of the original Battlestar Galactica.
The idea that a sinister billionaire is controlling the strings has a seductive appeal to activists. The right has Soros, the left has the Koch brothers.
The idea that *you* could be that sinister billionaire if you just gave money to the right people seems to have some appeal among a certain class of billionaires. It seems like there's always a minor league -- Tom Steyer in California, Sheldon Adelson in Nevada.
I just don't think it's that easy. I think a lot of people pushing big grandiose projects at billionaires just want to skim some money off the top.
There are a lot of vanity campaigns in politics, and a lot of people make good money working on them.
Althouse said,
The idea that Russia should behave better... when we're just talking about speech... I don't get it.
I am unclear if people do not understand the scope of what happened and what is likely to happen in the future.
I do not understand if people are unclear on how Putin and his agents behave, or if you are ok with his behaviour.
They won't like the new rules. (Netanyahu to Obama)
I vote for Buwaya's right to vote in San Francisco!
A couple days ago, Terry Gross interviewed The Guardian's Carole Cadwalladr who investigated Steve Bannan and Cambridge Analytica's role in Brexit. The two ladies have smirks in their voices, but it is obvious that Bannan brilliantly combined Moneyball (Go A's!!) analysis with Lee Atwater ruthlessness using Facebook data to break UK from EU as a testing greound for electing electing Trump.
I'm Terry Gross and this is Fresh Air
Buwaya, you should register because 1) you seem to be a relatively level-headed and responsible person, which is in short supply in SF, and 2) it will be interesting to have a first hand account of how this non-citizen voting will work, and how quickly it morphs into allowing you to vote in all elections. I sure don't expect to get an accurate account from our local media.
Blogger Big Mike said...
Bannon’s ambition routinely outweighs his talents.
You've got to be kidding. I can't stand Breitbart (the mag, I liked the guy) and Trump, but you have to be a world class dipshit not to recognize the genius of Steve Bannon.
I'm hopeful he is successful in nudging the EU towards a more common sense future.
Howard, work on your spelling of the names of people who you are supposing to be an expert on.
Blogger Darrell said...
"I never could meddle with a Woman, that had to do with any body else."
I never cared who had her first as long as I could have her last.
This is how Darrell justifies his tail-end Charlie place in a gang-bang pecking order. Classic Omega.
"the scope of what happened"
Which is... what? What happened? What was its scope? What made it unusual?
Mike: Be a man, not a silly woman concerned with spelling and punctuation.
My guess: Bannon has the ear of some right-wing donors, but very little influence in the US.
My guess is that you are a lefty troll with a blank profile.
I am of the exact same opinion as Zach- these billionaires are deluding themselves- I think people are bleeding them by convincing them that their money is going to make a difference. They are being scammed by people more clever than they are.
So, Bannon is a scamster here- the same as the NGOs Soros has been tossing money to.
Bannon has made some missteps, and he's gotten a few things politically wrong.
But, if you watch him give an extended speech (like the one linked by Dr. Michael K above), he really is an intelligent thoughtful man. He also has a huge advantage over most people - how many former Navy Officers also worked at Goldman Sachs, got a Harvard MBA, and got a piece of the Seinfeld tv revenue stream?
As for substance, he is an economic nationalist. He sides with blue collar whites, blacks and Hispanics over the coalition of illegal immigrants and their patrons, the Rich, Davos Globalist crowd This is a very perceptive tweak from the past ordinary Dem v Rep battles. Bannon's (now Trump's) coalition is more like 60% GOP; 20% Dem; 20% traditional non-voters v 70% Dem; 30% GOP (elite globalists).
He is definitely ahead of the curve, but we will see in 2020, whether this is a lasting political re-alignment or more of a blip on the screen. Hopefully, the Dems will nominate a liberal, elite globalist to squarely tee up the match. Maybe old John Kerry will run again!
I don't remember, Chuck- which of the Republican candidates did you think was wanting to work for fly-over state Americans?
“Just out of curiosity, is anyone aware of Soros spending any money on any non-liberal (Leftwing) causes?”
Well, he helped real Nazis as a youth, obviating any claim as Holocaust survivor. He’s always been on the side of evil.
If you are billionaire who wants to make a difference- or at least have a chance, you need to put your money where your mouth is and run for President or Prime Minister, etc.
There is this bizarre unstated assumption in so much of this nationalism talk that these U.S.-founded international institutions haven’t served our interests. That’s dangerous nonsense.
"I’ve never quite understood the idealistic enthusiasm people have for the United Nations....The whole thing stinks from the top down. The Security Council isn’t a democratic entity; it’s based on brute force....None of this is an argument for getting rid of the U.N., though I’d certainly be happy to see it go."
By the way, I’ve read many of the Soros Nazi collaboration apologies, and they are not convincing. Name another case like Soros’s. He’s singular.
Howard the fuck said...
Nobody gives a shit what Lefty Howard says. And real men don't gangbang their women.
The idea that Russia should behave better... when we're just talking about speech... I don't get it.
Perfectly stated.
mettlesome
Soros and Kissinger are contemporaries, news and opposite sides of WWII.
Have they been asked about the other in all these years?
Links would be appreciated
Jews not news
4-dub: I am unclear if people do not understand the scope of what happened and what is likely to happen in the future.
Ditto on Paco's questions @12:21.
I do not understand if people are unclear on how Putin and his agents behave, or if you are ok with his behaviour.
That's an admirably baroque version of "when did you stop beating your wife?".
I think you need to work on your own clarity of understanding and stop worrying about what other people are "unclear" about. Working on reducing your gullibility to laughably crude propaganda would be a good place to start.
http://deancook.net/2016/03/22/a-review-of-altruism-as-appeasement-by-ayn-rand/
Why such scams work ... Was explained
over 50 years ago.
Oh, on a related topic, should I register to vote, as an alien, in San Francisco?
No. Bad form, dear boy.
I don't mind your "participation" (i.e., meddling) by other means. But voting: no.
It's all about self-respect, both yours and my own. Citizenship has to mean something. You should understand that, and respect it.
My 2 cents.
“What if the entity who is meddling tries to make themselves appear as to be citizens of the country in which they are meddling in order to deceive the populace? Is that acceptable? That is what Russia did."
———————————-
“In a system of free speech, there is a lot of lying and misrepresentation and use of pseudonyms and so forth. We need to be resilient about dealing with speech. Unless you know what something is, be skeptical. I put my hopes in American getting smart and competent in handling informations. If that doesn't work too well, we can't have a democracy.
The idea that Russia should behave better... when we're just talking about speech... I don't get it.”
————————————————
Indeed, but we have seen that there is a segment of the population that easily falls prey to such scammers. The GRU are experts in deceit and there are those who are so taken with Trump and Trumpism that despite high intelligence can’t see through any ruse or scam when it comes to Trump. For instance, the gunman who shot up the pizza place because he believed the tweets by General Flynn’s son regarding some child porn ring in the basement of the Comet Pizza in DC. Flynn’s son isn’t Russian but there were Russian trolls and bots spreading the story also.
Terry Gross has been beating the drum to get Trump impeached, or deposed, or whatever. She doesn't even try to be objective. She had one guest over a year ago who said that what Trump has done re Russia doesn't rise to the level of "collusion", or at least collusion in committing any crime. She had no argument against him, but she's had a steady stream of Trump-bashers as guests ever since, including people bashing Bannon and Mercer, who really have very little to do with Trump.
“It's all about self-respect, both yours and my own. Citizenship has to mean something. You should understand that, and respect it.”
Absolutely yes.
The "international institutions" have decided to commit suicide. So the only long-term hope is for the rise of nationalist groups in the West.
The polls haven't been too positive for the dems lately so I fully expect LLR Chuck to begin ramping up his already over the top operational support for the left.
It won't work of course.
Just as Jonah Goldberg is now writing for an audience of about 20 people, all of whom will be voting for the next Hillary candidate.
Still, the LLR's are doing yeoman's work serving their paymasters. Max Boot has really set the standard in that regard, approaching Jen Rubin levels of reversing their previous positions in order to oppose Trump and obtain continuing invitations to all the best cocktail parties in Manhattan.
I can't blame them really. I love jumbo shrimp cocktail too.
Inga: "Indeed, but we have seen that there is a segment of the population that easily falls prey to such scammers."
Quite so.
Why, do you know that there are some buffoons so stupid as to be duped into believing fantastical stories based on fake opposition research and hoax dossiers?
Things that a child would know better than to believe.
But there you go.
Well, he helped real Nazis as a youth, obviating any claim as Holocaust survivor. He’s always been on the side of evil.
The NAZIs were Leftists.
Чикелит said...
"By the way, I’ve read many of the Soros Nazi collaboration apologies, and they are not convincing. Name another case like Soros’s. He’s singular"
There is a line said by Christopher Plummer who plays a former Nazi collaborator in Inside Man to the point that he sold his soul and spent a lifetime trying to buy it back.
Mike: Be a man, not a silly woman concerned with spelling and punctuation.
Wow..even I know that this is misogynistic.
Inga, your ideological blinders are so effective that you could write that without seeing the humor in it.
Michael K said...
These are low information emotional voters and they like what they see in the president. They think he’s working for them.”
chuck, I have three degrees and I think he's working for me.
I guess you prefer Hillary or Biden or Ocasio-Cortez.
---
For a guy with three degrees, you really struggle to follow a thread don't you.
And to add to my earlier comment about falling prey to scams and conspiracy theories, we are still hearing about Seth Rich’s murder in connection to Clinton and/or the DNC. Commenters here continue to believe it and have commented on it numerous times. I consider these commenters to be of average or above average intelligence but low on discernment.
Angle-Dyne, Angelic Buzzard said...
Chuck: "...Jonah Goldberg answers in National Review Online:"
There are some really great parodists of cuckservatives out there, but none of them can touch the sublime self-parody you serve up here, week in, week out.
---
ADAB, your frustration is cute! It becomes you.
Blogger Gahrie said...
Mike: Be a man, not a silly woman concerned with spelling and punctuation.
Wow..even I know that this is misogynistic.
It's not misogynetic, it's a celebration of diversity.
“Inga, your ideological blinders are so effective that you could write that without seeing the humor in it.”
Ha, funny. I see you folks as monkeys with your hands over your eyes and ears, but with your mouths wide open.
So the best evidence of Russian influence Inga can come up with is a rumor spread by Americans and (assuming she's right) Russian bots that inspired someone to shoot up a pizza place? What we need is evidence that Russian bots convinced at least one person to vote for Trump who would not have done so otherwise, or convinced at least one Hillary voter to stay home on election day or vote for Jill Stein instead. I have yet to see anyone offer any such evidence. Sad.
Damn, I’m getting old. It was the Prime Directive of Star Trek. Right after hot babes for Captain Kirk. Don’t do it, Buwaya! Keep your Spocklike logical mind pure.
A good plan because 1. Bannon's blood-and-soil nationalism is a far more appropriate match for Europe than America, and 2. After Bannon's Roy Moore, Mitch McConnell, and Donald Trump humiliations, he really can't show his face in America.
Inga: " I see you folks as monkeys with your hands over your eyes and ears, but with your mouths wide open."
The story of your presence on this blog has been a non-stop train-wreck of seeing things that never come to pass and failing to see things that are right in front of your eyes.
Therefore, it's perfectly understandable and consistent that you continue to do so.
I expect nothing less of you and LLR Chuck and the rest of the gang.
In fact, as a conservative, I'm counting on it. And why shouldn't I? It's paid off handsomely thus far.
The more you study history the better you realize the ubiquity of scams.
In politics, or public policy, the standard of credibility needs to be reversed, as a practical matter; institutions cannot be relied on, as they are rarely challenged by competing institutions, other than in wars. Therefore there is nothing at all to keep them honest. One is forced, through rational analysis, to question everything about them, their operations and the reasons for them, as well as their objectives and their justifications. It makes absolutely no difference whether the bureaucracy in question exists in a first world democracy or third world tyrrany. The democrats bureaucrats do not follow the will of the people ortheir laws anymore than the tyrants bureaucrats can be relied on to loyally serve their despot.
Hence Seth Rich. There is no credible authority here at all. The incident is an extreme low-probability event if it was random. The circumstances are extraordinarily suspicious. If an opponent of the US, being objective in order to achieve a useful idea of the US political situation, were analyzing this as an intelligence matter he would assign a high probability that this was a political murder.
buwaya:
In the days of the Roman Republic, my favorite period of Roman history, when it really was (still) a viable working republic, Roman citizenship really meant something: for the allied Latin states of Italy, the so-called socii, it had existential import, it often meant survival (along with all the economic/trade and rule-of-law-benefits and advantages conferred thereby).
Some years ago I explored this issue in an article, published in, Military History magazine, titled "Hannibal: The Failure of Success." In it I discussed how Hannibal, despite his tactical brilliance, was a failure as a strategist, comparing his ultimately catastrophic battle-centric strategy with that of German strategy in both the First and (especially) the Second World Wars. In either conflict Germany's strategy was nothing more than tactics writ large: win enough battles and you win the war(s). Which resulted, inevitably, in the reduction of strategy to the tactical level, i.e. strategy was formulated based on creating tactical scenarios in which your armies could fight and win battles. Tactics drove strategy, rather than the reverse.
Hannibal's strategy in the Second Punic War was virtually identical to Germany's. His strategy was premised on winning big battles, which result would, he believed, convince the socii to abandon Rome and throw their support behind Carthage. He believed he would be liberating the socii from Roman domination.
But the socii did not want to be liberated. They did not view their relationship as one in which they were subject states to a dominated Rome. They enjoyed Roman citizenship rights and privileges and they valued these dearly. So much so that they were willing fight valiantly and even die for them. At the Battle of Cannae, where between 55,000 and 70,000 Roman and socii soldiers were killed, the number of slain socii (who yoked their legions with Roman legions) were roughly equal to the number of slain Romans.
The point being, that Roman citizenship mattered as much to the socci as it did to the Romans. In the U.S. the right to vote is foundational to citizenship in the American republic. It is, therefore, a right that should be respected. If you're not a citizen, you should not vote or undertake to vote. And that goes double if you're a friend and ally of the U.S.
Correction above: "to a dominant Rome."
Dr Weevil: "So the best evidence of Russian influence Inga can come up with is a rumor spread by Americans and (assuming she's right) Russian bots that inspired someone to shoot up a pizza place?"
Pretty much.
Inga also avoids like the plague the coordination and funding the Russians provided to the lefty anti-fracking movement and groups because, duh. The last thing Putin wants is greater energy production on the part of the US.
Too bad for him and the dems. Trump is now the "preezy" and the US is now the top oil and gas producer in the world and high value energy exports from the US to the rest of the world are increasing.
BTW, has Michael Moore ever apologized for headlining the post election NY anti-Trump event which was paid for and coordinated by the russians?
LOL
I pity the Russians on that one! They had no idea Moore would be given access to the buffet!!
It would be interesting to see the Chinese or Russian intelligence agencies' take on the US political situation, in their briefing papers for their national leaders.
Whatever they may lack in in-depth knowledge of US society, you can be assured that they will at least be objective with respect to American political biases.
To see things clearly, its an interesting exercise to put yourself in the role of an adversary. Assume that all sides in the US are your enemies, even if they might somehow be serving your interests.
“The democrats bureaucrats do not follow the will of the people ortheir laws anymore than the tyrants bureaucrats can be relied on to loyally serve their despot.”
Republicans follow the will of the people? Republicans are serving our very own despot, but despite not being a citizen of this country you are a Republican partisan.
LOL.
“It's all about self-respect, both yours and my own. Citizenship has to mean something. You should understand that, and respect it.”
Blogger Inga responded...”Absolutely yes.”
But heaven forbid that we should actually check for citizenship at the polling place.
@Darkisland,
My approach is different ... for consistency in Federal structure,
State citizenship should translate to federal level.
No naturalization.
Citizen only by birth in any of the States
Roughcoat: There was no German strategy in WWII, just the randomly brilliant and stunningly disastrous machinations of a committed ideologue without internal constraint.
Granted, re the nature of Roman citizenship. It was born as a matter of pure ethnic affiliation. This was the case with ancient Greek concepts too, of Athens and Sparta and most others. One could live many generations in Athens without being an Athenian.
The question now is whether modern ideas of citizenship are like those of ancient Rome or Greece, or that of late Rome and of the Germanic kingdoms that succeeded it, where all that mattered (mostly) is whether one served the state or lived usefully in the land. And moreover those Germans ruled over many peoples that had little in common. Have a look at the domains of Charles V.
"For a guy with three degrees, you really struggle to follow a thread don't you."
About as well as chuck.
Your point ?
Bureaucrats and their systems are similar the world over.
Their political affiliations are a matter of shared interests and caste origins.
The US system is Democrat, for both reasons, and not Republican.
Blogger Howard said...
Roughcoat: There was no German strategy in WWII, just the randomly brilliant and stunningly disastrous machinations of a committed ideologue without internal constraint.
I would agree about WWI, not WWII. Hitler would have won but for his decision to invade Russia.
Blogger Michael K said...
"For a guy with three degrees, you really struggle to follow a thread don't you."
About as well as chuck.
Your point ?
---
My point is that those three degrees don't seemed to have help you develop critical reading or critical thinking skills. If I remember right, one is a trade school degree. I hope you are alright at your trade, so you can say you got something out of your time...
Inga's being kind. I think you people suffer hard from battered wife syndrome: as soon as a successful TV carnival barker offers up a milkbone in yogurt, you rush to Daddy's heel.
In other words, is citizenship a thing that only works within tight cultural parameters, necessarily limited to those that share them, as in ancient Rome; or is it something usefully extensible to an Imperial system, necessarily multiethnic and multicultural.
Not a popular argument these days. The old answer in the days of romantic nationalism were alternately yes, but if one has a multicultural polity it must be brainwashed into unity (as with late 19th century France, copied by the US), or no, each distinct bit needed its own nation (Wilsonianism).
Commenters here continue to believe it and have commented on it numerous times. I consider these commenters to be of average or above average intelligence but low on discernment.
If Inga and her leftist allies could produce the GW resident who was evicted from ICU when Seth Rich, still alive, was admitted, she might have a grain of logic.
They don't and they don't. There is fair circumstantial evidence that Rich was the source of the Wikileaks material.
He was a Bernie bro who became aware of the stolen primary elections and nomination.
He had motive and opportunity and there is still no explanation of the killing and especially what happened to him in that ICU.
But the dull normal keep repeating what they have been told by the conspirators.
Craig,
He's a medical doctor--a surgeon. And a chemical engineer. And?
What you got?
Beside a beclowning.
Craigs points are alternately undeveloped or obtuse.
Ingas are unexamined and lack perspective.
Craig is sounding like Inga.
My point is that those three degrees don't seemed to have help you develop critical reading or critical thinking skills. If I remember right, one is a trade school degree. I hope you are alright at your trade, so you can say you got something out of your time...
Regale us with your credentials, please .
How many books have you written, Craig ?
Give us a summary of your outstanding accomplishments. I'm sure we will all be impressed.
Buwaya
Wow - Very thought provoking comment!
>It would be interesting to see the Chinese or Russian intelligence agencies' take on
>the US political situation, in their briefing papers for their national leaders.
The problem I see with the Chinese leadership, is a lot of hubris and a bit of an echo chamber.
A question that has been hinted above, is Trump just a one off, historical anomaly, a flash in the pan with little impact on the US direction, or is he something more?
My guess is something more. I'm amazed what he has done in only 2 years, and if he is President another 6 yours and the GOP keeps the House and Senate, and increases their senate majority, you may have some fundamental changes. What is amusing to me, is Obama promised change, and Trump is delivering it.
buwaya: The US has more immigrants yet a much lower problem with immigrant incorporation than Europe. This is because of the lower hurdles to entrepreneurialism... that fundamental freedom creates an underlying unity that does not require brainwashing, just Smith's invisible hand.
As for the votes I will compile them at a random time, probably late tonight.
This is in keeping with San Francisco practice with polling hours. I intend to apply such local traditions as much as possible.
And I will interpret ambiguous votes to divine their intent, such as Ingas, instead of discarding them.
And of course I will count double votes.
I don’t know why Trump is complaining about Cohen taping their conversation after all it just speech.
Darrell, buwaya, you guys are adorable! Keep trying! A medical doctor and an engineer? Oooooh, how fancy! Ahahaha
Michael K, you're right, I got nothing. If teaching at a top-ranked medical school taught me anything, it was that surgeons are the intellectual height of medicine, especially older, used-up surgeons who like to hang out on right-wing blogs. I'd never be able to impress such a person, himself so impressive!
The best I could do is hope to play the same pointless clouding-up-the-comments-with-noise-until-they-get-to-200 game that the rest of you love to play.
Mike: you are doubling down on argument by authority. weak sauce
Buwaya, I forgot that I had a present for you:
''''''''''''''''''
Feel free to use those apostrophes if you'd like, and if you run out, I know a guy, I can get more.
Blogger roesch/voltaire said...
I don’t know why Trump is complaining about Cohen taping their conversation after all it just speech.
I don't know why people complain about racist, sexist, and bigoted language. After all, it is just speech.
Blogger Craig said...
If teaching at a top-ranked medical school taught me anything . . .
I know what you mean,. If teaching at a top-ranked medical school taught me anything, it is that anonymous blog commenters are always truthful.
What do you teach, Craig?
Felching?
Howard,
I think you are mistaken. The reason why immigrants were so easily assimilated is that the US had an extremely powerful brainwashing system in its public schools, and even parochial schools, with an intense emphasis on nationalist symbolism.
Way across the Pacific our Catholic schools used US English language materials, a cultural sidesplash from your internal practices. All of us studied Longfellow and learned the Star Spangled Banner. It might be difficult to realize that, if it is the water in which you swim. But it wasn't really our water, so we noticed.
Add to that a system of mass media reinforcement. Hollywood and Broadway and your print media was relentlessly patriotic.
That was then, and I believe it worked remarkably well. It isn't now.
Blogger Lewis Wetzel said...
Blogger Craig said...
If teaching at a top-ranked medical school taught me anything . . .
I know what you mean,. If teaching at a top-ranked medical school taught me anything, it is that anonymous blog commenters are always truthful.
---
I'm going to offer a special punctuation class for you and buwaya, no tuition charged. We'll even separate out colloquial and formal usage, so you can handle both kinds of cases. I'll make a fancy certificate for you to hang on the wall when we're done. I'll see if Alleged Surgeon and Chemical Engineer Michael K will sign it for us!
Blogger Darrell said...
What do you teach, Craig?
Felching?
---
In fact, this is required reading for all of my students.
Er, Craig, that is simply evasion.
Feel free to edit my comments if it makes you feel better.
Shorter leftwing reaction: Hillary lost and we are endlessly stung by the butthurt.
”If teaching at a top-ranked medical school taught me anything . . .”
Ooh, ooh, do we get decoder rings?
Buwaya:
My response was not simply evasion. It was complexly evasion, involving elements both undeveloped and obtuse! I'm just showing off now. You guys are being good sports, playing the intellectual Washington Generals.
Original Mike said...
”If teaching at a top-ranked medical school taught me anything . . .”
Ooh, ooh, do we get decoder rings?
---
Yes, Original Mike, more of this sort of meaty contribution to things! Come and get me!
Craig, this is of course pointless, as we have your number.
It is that you haven't got a point, or argument, or a world view, just hostility.
Inga at least has a position, and arguments, or what she imagines are positions and arguments, second hand though they usually are.
So the guy who offered to correct others' punctuation writes "It was complexly evasion" when either "a complex evasion" or "complexly evasive" would have been grammatical. Oops.
Craig is Ritmo.
I am considering changing my on-line handle to "Bernie is a Millionaire"
Lawyers are drawing up the papers.
that's an intriguing question, soros's mentor was karl popper, Kissinger's was yandell Elliot and fritz Kramer, unlike blofeld he wasn't always evil,
Hmm, if so he is trying a new style.
Not a lot of text.
it's more like the argument clinic, like I say talking to wolff was a big disqualifier, he should have waited for the nationalist part of the platform to go into effect,
”Craig is Ritmo.”
Shit. I have a rule never to talk to Ritmo.
Yes, Original Mike, more of this sort of meaty contribution to things! Come and get me!
Yes, I see Craig is Ritmo.
Scroll button handy,
I don't really see the problem with speaking to affect politics in a foreign country.
Neither did the people cheering on those marching with the Trump balloon in London, or posting anti-Trump sentiments from Stockholm, or showing up in widely-parroted polls that Europeans think less of America now that we elected President Trump.
They are the same people who find Russians posting facebook ads abhorrent and a "threat to Democracy".
You see the difference is that the Russians are the enemy, they will tell us.
All the while letting America pay for their defense while shutting down their nuclear plants to become dependent on cheap Russian natural gas.
Howard said...
buwaya: The US has more immigrants yet a much lower problem with immigrant incorporation than Europe.
We have been lucky that our illegal immigrants are Christian.
That is a whole kettle of fish different from the hordes of Muslims that Merkel has flooded Europe with and Tony Blair did to England.
We have been seeing "Sudden Jihad Syndrome" since 2002. The guy was a limousine driver with a family living in Irvine.
Still, he went nuts and killed people until a good Israeli shot killed him.
Major Hassan was US born and went nuts, first "debriefing" US soldiers coming back from Afghanistan that they were evil, then shooting a bunch of people at Ft Hood.
The other doctors at Ft Hood knew he was a nut but were afraid to report him.
Craig sure sounds like Ritmo trying to dazzle us with his manic energy and Jr. HS taunts.
r/v sounds like a kibitzer with vague, empty phrases designed to elicit reactions.
Sorry. You both failed.
buwaya:
Are the polls closed?
If so, there's a ballot in my trunk that says: No.
If the polls are still open: No.
Gahrie said...
You have to realize that the ruling elites in Europe think of the people of Europe as ignorant peasants. Since the peasants are ignorant, if they vote the wrong way you just ignore the vote, or keep voting until your side wins. Then you stop voting for all time on the matter.
"Democracy is like a streetcar. When you come to your stop, you get off." Recep Tayyip Erdogan And the current leader of Turkey feels the same way.
I'm sure I could find other similar quotes. It's a very common thought around the world. The United States was organized as huge exception to it. But it's the Democrat/Socialist belief. Once they've got something in place- it can never be changed back. Ever. Their victories are one way ratchets. Conservative victories are temporary. And words mean what liberals say they mean, not what the words say. Why they worship a "living Constitution" that can be bent, spindled, and mutilated to say anything.
Soylent Green is Ritmo!!
What if the entity who is meddling tries to make themselves appear as to be citizens of the country in which they are meddling in order to deceive the populace? Is that acceptable? That is what Russia did.
7/21/18, 10:19 AM
You seem to love it when Sacha Baron Cohen does it.
Look, here's the problem. It seems universally accepted that Russia did nothing SIGNIFICANT to affect the ELECTION. They did, long have, are and always will make some efforts to stir the pot in our SOCIETY, which downstream, may move a vote this way or that, suppress it or turn it out, in our elections in general.
In every election during the Cold War, Pravda would endorse a Presidential candidate. Their agents would do their own endorsing or supporting. Some, like Gus Hall and Ted Kennedy, even ran for President.
But everybody does that, and how can it be stopped? Make every wetback and every dual citizen register under FARA? Perhaps every visitor, every foreigner?
Inga, what can be symmetrically done about it? About what, precisely? Hacking is already a crime, one little investigated or prosecuted. We can't even stop Nigerian spam, let alone Russian spam. Buying ads? Having aliases? Dressing up as wounded veterans and taking the piss out of celebrities on operatives of one side or another?
See? Should SBC be arrested, or sanctioned, or assassinated? Should his country be likewise punished for sending him? Should the Guardian have been punished for that letter writing campaign? Should Teresa May have been punished for supporting HRC? Should trade war opponents be attacked for composing their tariff packages along US political lines?
Plus which, we do it to them. Do you want Israel or Egypt or Russia imprisoning whoever we send to stir up things there? Or do we assert the rights of the stronger over the weaker, that we can do it to them but they can't do it to us? Because, in fact, it seems that they can, and also we are at a loss about how to respond.
To give any of it this much attention is a victory for them. It would be better if you just shook it off. Rub some dirt on it. Put some ice on it!
The thing is that you guys are just whining, with a message equivalent to a television tuned to a dead channel. You don't think, you just feel.
Blogger Craig said...
Blogger Darrell said...
What do you teach, Craig?
Felching?
---
In fact, this is required reading for all of my students.
7/21/18, 2:25 PM
If that's your lecture, I'd hate to see your labs.
Blogger roesch/voltaire said...
I don’t know
Oh, it's our favorite serial killer. Look, if there is a sentence that's on a level for universal and eternal truth with "This too shall pass," it's you saying "I don't know."
"If that's your lecture, I'd hate to see your labs."
"If that's one of your "quizies" I'd hate to see your testes."
Old academic joke.
Roughcoat said...
Oh, on a related topic, should I register to vote, as an alien, in San Francisco?
No. Bad form, dear boy.
I don't mind your "participation" (i.e., meddling) by other means. But voting: no.
It's all about self-respect, both yours and my own. Citizenship has to mean something. You should understand that, and respect it.
My 2 cents.
7/21/18, 1:05 PM
I dunno Ruff, it would be like sneaking Breitbart into Journolist 2.0. Might be good to have a man on the inside.
"every man jack" but no "rags and tags."
From Infoplease:
Brewer's: Every Man Jack of Them
Everyone. The older form of everyone was everichon, often divided into every chone, corrupted first into every-john, then into every Jack, then perverted into every man Jack of 'em.
“I shall them soon vanquish every chone.”
Shepherd's Kalender.
“To have hadde theym ... slayne everye chone.”
Source: Dictionary of Phrase and Fable, E. Cobham Brewer, 1894
Obama directly intervened in the Israeli elections.
When he is prosecuted then I will listen to you about Putin.
Otherwise shut the fuck up and enough with this witch hunt.
So the vote seems to be in- and the tally serms to be 5 yea and 5 nay, including such divining of intent as seems appropriate.
Sadly, there are no duplicate ballots or any obviously filed on behalf of dead or senile persons, and such other SF civic traditions.
If I have made some error in the vote count, that is also a civic tradition, so it stands anyway.
The result, which I am taking as ambiguous, defaults to the existing situation, therefore I shall not register to vote.
Asking Jonah Goldberg to say something (ANYTHING) nice about Trump is like asking Simon Wiesenthal to say a few nice words about Goebbels. Frankly, with that level of vitriol, you'd think that Trump shoved his head in a toilet or slept with his wife or something.
Jonah has NEVER been a fan of the UN, international institutions, a US unilateralist...except since 2016. He has been an advocate of totally withdrawing the troops from Germany and leaving the military bases huge unusable ruins...except since 2016. He has been a firm critic of NATO and the globalist namby pamby world think of a Clinton or Obama except...well you get the picture.
Which is essentially the same attitude, supposedly of Senator John McChuck: a person who almost never has a nice thing to say about Republicans.
Well, Goldberg does say nice things about Republicans and Conservatives...but nothing nice to say about anyone who has a single nice thing to say about Trump.
So it is unsurprising that Chuck hearts on Goldberg.
I used to heart on Goldberg but not since he has gone delusional about Trump. I heart him less because he is, like Chuck, also irrational for a supposed Conservative.
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