"From the ads for escorts on hotel key cards, to the young men out on the streets handing out cards with promises of 'A girl to your room faster than a pizza,' as well as women visibly plying the trade both on the streets and in hotel lobbies, illegal prostitution flourishes in Las Vegas—to the extent that many johns have no idea that the business isn’t legal in Vegas. There is big money to be made there from sex tourism, and as with any illegal activity, there are links with police corruption.... In the [HBO reality] show Cathouse, supposedly a fly-on-the-wall depiction of the Moonlite Bunny Ranch, one of Hof’s brothels, the women appear liberated and happy in their work. They tell viewers that this is simply a job like any other; the clients are lovely, and living in a brothel with other women is akin to a permanent pajama party. But my research suggests that life for the women in Nevada brothels bears little resemblance to this rosy picture...."
From "A Ballot on the Brothels of Nevada" (New York Review of Books).
July 17, 2018
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58 comments:
It's always good when a woman is valued for her body.
It's the MSM that values women for their minds. Target audience.
Some years ago (2005?) when i was in Vegas for a sales meeting (yes, I know) I was getting up very very early (4:00am) to run before the sun/heat were terrible.
Around 6am when i was recovering under the canopy at the MGM Grand (I was way to sweaty to go inside with the real people) I watched the "changing of the hooker shift." These white vans were rolling up and dropping off 8-9 beautiful people (men, women, and not-sure's) and picking up 8-9 slightly-the-worse-for-wear beautiful people.
It was very efficient looking logistics. And not at all romantic, sexy, or pajama-party-like.
-XC
Given the misery, tedium, and insecurity of many jobs, for shit pay and no benefits, I can't see how prostitution isn't like any other job!
Upgrade to escort.
Nevada US Senator Pat Geary and his dead prostitute formed my impression of the Nevada prostitution scene. Circa the 1950s, but the scene still repeats,
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=im3vHOEm-r4
To be fair the survey should compare marriage, with no-fault divorce. It can be the very costly alternative for one party and a really great deal for the other.
You start having to rely on good character in general, not just good commercial character.
A Las Vegas cab driver told me the best tippers are hookers. The worst are South Asians.
What I want to see is how the collector's market for the Prostitute Trading Cards given out on the street is doing. Are the older ones getting more valuable now. I want to get me Stormey Daniels rookie card before the price goes up.
I was at an AMA convention in Vegas many years ago and was sitting at the bar in the hotel killing time. Across from me was another doc at the meeting, which was not the big convention but a smaller meeting on politics and legislation.
He was talking to this nice looking woman sitting next to him for a half hour and she then turned to him and said "Are we going to do anything or not ?"
She was a hooker. He had no idea and told me the story later.
He had been enjoying the conversation. She was quite intelligent and well spoken.
Blogger tcrosse said...
A Las Vegas cab driver told me the best tippers are hookers
Did you see the movie "Casino?" The hooker was played by Sharon Stone and she was a great tipper, especially of doormen who gave her tips on good clients.
Probably related.
@tcrosse - “South Asians”? You mean Indians? This ain’t the Daily Telegraph.
The hooker was played by Sharon Stone and she was a great tipper, especially of doormen who gave her tips on good clients.
Not all currency is paper.
The rush of a winning hand or the buzz of a couple of drinks (or something else) or the explosion of ejaculation, is that capitalism at its finest or something else?
Michael, the hooker was saying “This conversation is all well and good but are we going to get down to business or not?”
And I bet at that moment the doc was thinking both “I didn’t know we were conducting business.” AND “Come to think of it I could use a good &^#* right now.”
Ann,
You need a "my body, my choice" tag for this post.
John Henry
@tcrosse - “South Asians”? You mean Indians? This ain’t the Daily Telegraph.
That is to distinguish from the Paiute.
And I bet at that moment the doc was thinking both “I didn’t know we were conducting business.” AND “Come to think of it I could use a good &^#* right now.”
He didn't tell me that part. Also he was black and she was a very pretty white woman.
He was just astonished to learn she was a hooker. What he did later, I never learned.
If you have a technical bend, you should look into Eddie Munoz and the Las Vegas phone network hacking problem that occurred in the 90s.
https://www.securityfocus.com/news/205
There fun details like Kevin Mitnick's testimony to the Nevada Public Utilities commission. Discussions about 300 baud modems. All sorts of cool stuff.
"But my research suggests that life for the women in Nevada brothels bears little resemblance to this rosy picture...."
Why should I trust her research over one of the most trusted sources of social research in the world, the HBO reality show?
One of the many flip sides. The Vegas pimps are scouting talent (young ladies) all over NorCal. One of them was grooming the 14 year old daughter of a friend. 14. And he knew she was 14.
“She was a hooker. He had no idea and told me the story later.”
Running joke of sort around us. She grew up in Vegas, so of course knew what was going on. I was in one of the biggest law firms in NV, and we had a practice group meetings at one of the nicer casino hotels. Very sweet- we each got a nice one bedroom suite. In any case, after dinner that included margaritas, I stopped at a bar in the casino and talked to several young women who ultimately asked if I wanted to party. And one woman by the elevator. Apparently 60 year old men wearing sport coats are prime targets. When I said “no”, they went looking elsewhere. But then I mentioned this interest by attractive well dressed young women to my partner, and she has been needling me about it ever since.
Let me add that kickbacks from prostitutes and drug dealers can add $100k to the take home pay of bell captains and the like at the better hotels in Vegas.
“One of the many flip sides. The Vegas pimps are scouting talent (young ladies) all over NorCal. One of them was grooming the 14 year old daughter of a friend. 14. And he knew she was 14.”
While, yes, there are pimps, Vegas is one place where there are a lot of amateurs and prostitutes working for themselves. Violence is not well tolerated in the casino hotels there. Esp the nicer ones. Also pretty pervasive video being recorded everywhere outside the rooms and restrooms. Which means that the prostitutes don’t need the protection of pimps as much, nor can the pimps utilize such as effectively to keep them in mind. If you fly in and out of Vegas (and Reno) enough (I was flying in and out of Reno weekly, and Vegas maybe biweekly) you quickly get so that you can recognize the working girls. And a lot of them would fly in for an event, take a hotel shuttle to a casino hotel, work out of there a couple days, then fly home, not giving pimps much chance to get involved.
It’s strange to me that prostitution is so infrequently legal in the us.
On one side you have religious against it.
And also feminists against it.
It would be nice to see the video from the mass shooter event. We've seen fragments.
I know there is a woman lawyer trying to get it released. It would be a nice blog post for Ann. Women lawyers and stuff.,
Convention cities have hookers?!? Are you SURE about that? Seems mind-boggling to me.
I suppose that with the slogan “what happens in Vegas, stays in Vegas” we think of hotel hookers as a Las Vegas sort of thing, but people I know have been solicited in Washington, Austin, San Antonio, and other places. I haven’t had the experience of being invited to “party” at a convention but that’s probably because I tended to go to technical conventions and I don’t drink so don’t sit around in hotel bars.
For some reason the well-known techie joke comes to mind, about the programmer who had both a wife and a mistress. “The mistress thinks I’m home with my wife, the wife thinks I’m boinking my mistress, so I can get on my laptop and get some real work done.”
Michael K, 8:21:
"She was a hooker. He had no idea and told me the story later."
Cue scene from Arthur:
"Are you a hooker?! I thought I was doing great with you!"
Safe, benign, and desirable
Safe, legal, and rare
A progressive slope.
In Nevada or anywhere else U.S.A. nobody has to be a prostitute. It's a choice.
I never employed the services of one, but I have known a number of prostitutes socially. They don't seem to hate their job any more than most people, and many have a much more enthusiastic opinion of it than the average job. Mostly becuase it pays very well and you have quite a bit of freedom with hours if you keep relatively independent. I would not recommend it, because men are gross, but some women seem to like it. I've known a few with no other skills or experience who used it as a springboard to a much better life. The ones I knew (escorts) could make $6-8, or even 12K on a single date, not to mention an the expensive venue and entertainment of the date. They save their money for a year or two and move on to a normal life with a nice nest egg. These are escorts though, not street whores, and they were generally very attractive, often models on the side.
I haven’t had the experience of being invited to “party”
You just reminded me. Our fraternity was having a party one night and one of the guys, who was a bit naive (He was from Denver, not LA) was driving along a side street north of the campus when he saw a girl walking alone. He stopped his car and said "Hey, want to go to a party ?"
She came right over and jumped in the car. And we had a hooker at the party,
She got annoyed when he did not want to pay her and we had the pimps dropping by the fraternity house the next week.
Interesting experience that I had forgotten.
Blogger glenn said...
One of them was grooming the 14 year old daughter of a friend. 14. And he knew she was 14.
that is trafficking. Whether she is choosing to do it or not, when the woman is 14, it is trafficking.
If it is an adult woman and there is any coercion, it is trafficking.
Trafficking is ALWAYS wrong. Trafficking negates the concept of "my body, my choice"
Adult men and women are able to make their own decisions and choices. That they may choose poorly is none of the government's business at any level.
Their body, their choice.
Not to say the govt can't prohibit open solicitation on the sidewalk of sex, or anything else.
Jon Henry
Let people fuck in peace.
As a High School and College kid I had been through the Port Authority Bus Terminal in Manhattan many times, without giving it much thought. Then one evening I walked through in my Navy uniform, and the place was transformed. How did I suddenly become so popular ?
Escort ads on key cards? I've been visiting and working in Vegas since 88, and living here since 2011, and have never seen such a thing. Can't imagine any hotel doing that.
Prostitution is legal in Hollywood, too. They just call it 'casting'.
As Brain or Traci said, I've been to Vegas - if not extensively - and the very idea of "escort ads on your hotel key" is incomprehensible.
Perhaps at the sketchiest of sketchy hotels neither near the strip nor Fremont? Maybe?
(I'm not at all sure I trust any of the other anecdotes or claims any more than that, frankly, per comments above.)
Whether or not you're invited to "party" might depend greatly on how close we might be to the end of the hooker's "shift." A hooker told an HBO documentary producer that she charged $500 minimum. By the end of the film, she was blowing a john for a sandwich and half a pack of smokes.
"The ones I knew (escorts) could make $6-8, or even 12K on a single date, not to mention an the expensive venue and entertainment of the date. They save their money for a year or two and move on to a normal life with a nice nest egg. These are escorts though, not street whores, and they were generally very attractive, often models on the side."
Most prostitutes are not high-paid escorts just as most workers are not CEOs or even high level executives.
A rose by any other name...
Ms. Althouse,
How would you vote on a ballot measure that addressed prostitution? Would you vote to make it legal, or would you vote to make it illegal?
hailed as safe
Probably true, given the alternatives (for Johns and girls alike).
I don't trust either side. Dennis Hof is, of course, going to paint the nicest picture. But Julie Bindel is just as clearly opposed to legal prostitution and is going to paint it in the most negative light. She is a radical feminist with a history of unsubstantiated claims and simply making things up.
Don't normalize it. Tolerate it and give them legal redress.
@Yancey Ward - no poll needed. It will be overwhelmingly popular unless it involves someone’s daughter. Then people will be worried about human trafficking. Daughters can’t be prostitutes.
I only ask because I am trying to figure out how feminists can support abortion and not legal prostitution- the argument, that it a personal decision regarding ones body, used to support legal abortion is even stronger in regards to prostitution in my way of thinking.
Most prostitutes are not high-paid escorts just as most workers are not CEOs or even high level executives.
There are prostitutes for every budget and to suit every ... taste.
I don't want anyone I know to hire prostitutes. I don't want anyone I know to work as a prostitute.
But if they DO, I don't want them to be at risk of arrest. Legalize it.
Prohibition is always a foolish idea.
One of the singular memories for me the only time I went to Vegas was the incredibly obnoxious touts. It seemed like there were 2,000 Mexicans and Easter Europeans forcing pictorial business cards for escorts into my hand.
What made it particularly noxious is that I am walking HOLDING MY WIFES HAND as they are trying to shove these things into mine. I held up my holding hands with my wife on occasion and asked them 'Really?'
No impression on them at all. It was disgusting. The very street of the Strip was almost covered by the detritus of escort cards and leaflets.
I alternated between disgust, amusement and pity for them to be driven to such a task. That some desperate women were doing it was particularly pitiful.
This is something that Vegas T.V. shows doesn't cover.
This is Julie Bindle, a known anti-sex "feminist" who spews lies, garbage and misinformation about sex work. She even cites Farley, who has been sanctioned for doing bogus research. The New York Review of books should be ashamed to be running this garbage.
If you talk to people who are actually familiar with the Nevada brothels -- like Christina Parreira -- it paints a very different picture. And one that leads to the inevitable conclusion that what Nevada should do is completely decriminalize.
Now that campus kangaroo courts have made picking up co-eds in bars so risky, I think there is an absolute need for legalized prostitution in each and every college town.
But if they DO, I don't want them to be at risk of arrest. Legalize it.
Prohibition is always a foolish idea.
Have you read the account of the prostitute in "Freakonomics?"
When I was up in northern Idaho in 1959, prostitution was legal in Wallace and Kellogg. Those are now ski resorts but in those days they were mining towns and had whorehouses. When the girls had their periods, they got those days off and would sometimes drive over to Cour d' Alene and would wave to guys they recognized. We didn't care. We were all single but nobody mentioned the road east of Cour d'Alene around the nice girls. The only thing east of Cour d Alene for 600 miles was the whorehouses.
There is a 'rotation' of trafficking in Asia. Many high end countries like Singapore, Thailand and Hong Kong et. al. allow a person to stay as a tourist for up to 90 days.
This creates a situation where you have these 'globe trotting' prostitutes who will do a triangle travel, going to each country respectively for 90 days before they have to move on to the next country.
I picked this up from a Asian looking girl from Kazakhstan who tried to solicit me.
It seems that Nork and those old Russian -stans used to trade talent, workers and prisoners back and forth, so a half breed Nork/Kazahk girl wound up in a 'traffic' jam.
How awful must her life be? And yet compared to the racism and poverty in her home country...well, she was dressed VERY well and it was a very high end bar. I would have liked to chat and learn more, but not at her hourly rate and a girl has got to eat, so if I wasn't saying yes, she had to find someone who would.
And who says travel doesn't broaden the mind.
When you compare HER problems with 'I think I might be making a nickel less than a man and I heard a dirty joke', well, I have all the respect for Feminism as one can imagine quite beyond their open animus to my gender.
To tag back to the Bourdain thread: Ms. Althouse mentioned 'home' as a definition of travel.
What kind of life does one have without ANY kind of touchstone of 'hominess' and domesticity as a life? That seems one of many assaults on trafficking.
Yancey Ward opines: I only ask because I am trying to figure out how feminists can support abortion and not legal prostitution- the argument, that it a personal decision regarding ones body, used to support legal abortion is even stronger in regards to prostitution in my way of thinking.
Good point. And I prefer the idea of a 'whorehouse' with a 'madam' [small business owner] to a street business involving a pimp. But I guess the ugly drug thing is what drives some of these unfortunate girls to that life.
But I guess the ugly drug thing is what drives some of these unfortunate girls to that life.
For many of them, drugs and alcohol make that life BEARABLE. So it isn't just a one way trip down that road.
"the argument, that it a personal decision regarding ones body, used to support legal abortion is even stronger in regards to prostitution in my way of thinking."
Well, the real law-prof sophisticated argument is that abortion involves a constitutional right because it makes women--autonomous agents, don't you know, persons!--think about the morality of abortion.
So unless you want to argue that whores must think about the morality of prostitution, the penumbrae of emanations of fabricated privacy don't apply here, at least as a legal argument.
Of course, you might argue that where the Constitution is silent, rights are reserved to the people and the states, and voters must choose, but that, as we all know, would be silly.
It is a job like any other.
Well, with the significant difference that it manages to offend religious fundamentalists and some feminist puritans, who are united in their belief that sexual promiscuity is morally degenerate for women.
In other news, the "legal" child care industry is providing cover for the cash-in-hand nanny industry, and the legal sale of alcohol is giving an air of respectability to bootleggers. Same logic.
Most prostitutes are not high-paid escorts just as most workers are not CEOs or even high level executives.
Prostitutes in Australia, where brothels are legal, can and do earn ridiculously high amounts of money. I once knew a girl who did it every weekend for a month to clear a five figure debt.
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