June 22, 2018

"When it comes to romantic trips, shorter is better... Doing what you desire increases satisfaction of the vacation as well."

"Don’t mope around a maritime museum or embark on a punishing hike in hopes of pleasing your partner if you’d rather thumb through a magazine by the hotel pool. Be upfront about what each person needs from the trip — relaxation, adventure, culture, excitement — and do your best to make sure everyone’s requirements are met.... Resentment over how time and money was spent is the biggest issue [one marriage counselor] sees with couples when they return from a trip.... 'In order to ensure the trip is the best it can be, couples should recognize that traveling in each other’s company requires compromise' [said another counselor].... People who have their hearts set on a romantic, whirlwind vacation full of rose petals and moonlight beach walks might be in for disappointment when the trip doesn’t deliver an Instagram-perfect love-a-thon.... Lucie Josma, 32, a social media manager and travel photographer based in New York... was fixated on the idea of taking a gondola ride down the canals [on a trip to Venice]; it was supposed to be the ultimate picture-esque couple’s moment. Unfortunately, because of a lack of funds and a throng of tourists who edged her out, the boat ride didn’t happen. 'It wasn’t enjoyable, and I was so upset,' she recalled...."

From "How to Plan the Perfect Trip With Your Significant Other This Summer/Make sure your bae-cation is one to remember — without the logistical headaches" (NYT).

Interesting illustration at the link. It shows 2 kissing couples. All 4 individuals are female (I think!). And that's even though the problems anticipated in the article seem to be stereotypical male/female problems, where the woman needs to back off from expecting too much romance and the man, well, the man just isn't reading the article. I guess he wants the hike which, because the reader of the article is presumed not to be the one who wants the hike, is a "punishing hike."

By the way, everything I quoted from the article sounds to me like a screamed warning: Don't go on vacation!

ADDED: I love the phrase "a throng of tourists." It should be "a throng of other tourists," but Lucie Josma, the character the reader is supposed to identify with, is not to be seen as another one of the tourists, all crowding up the place and ruining it for each other, messing up each other's photographs by being there. No, she's special. She's a "travel photographer based in New York," not another snapshotting plebe with an Instagram account. How is it a professional photographer didn't know that a gondola ride in Venice is tourist bullshit that could not possibly yield a good photograph, unless you were doing a photo essay satirizing tourism?

57 comments:

FIDO said...

Sniff.

Men are far more flexible on vacations than women. Hiking, camping, gambling, drinking, gondola rides, sitting by a pool doing nothing. As long as he gets good food, good drink, adequate sex (for a personal determination of adequate) and no nagging, he is GENERALLY good.

He does not have some candle lit fantasy of crypts, boating, serenades, and gowns.

This feels like a female problem. Which is why men tend to NOT plan the vacations because he will get it wrong.

So does she, but then she has a harder time blaming the man for not being telepathic.

Meade said...

“Don't go on vacation!“

But if you do, stay in a Trump Hotel.

MadisonMan said...

Don't go on a vacation with expectations that have to be met. That's what I would say.

Have a couple things you want to try to do but be flexible. Life doesn't end because you can't Instagram a gondola ride in Venice FGS. That woman in the article sounds incredibly immature. Has anyone told her "No" before?

traditionalguy said...

Aim at getting away from the familiar and away from a crowd. That leave out Airports and the famous tourist icons. The times are a changing. For example, San Francisco is no longer a nice spot. High end Golf Resorts are still good. Canada is still good.

buwaya said...

The NYT seems to have an oddly large lesbian readership.
Talk about a niche market.

Ann Althouse said...

"But if you do, stay in a Trump Hotel."

I am going to stay in a Trump hotel!

Sebastian said...

Only go on vacation with a sensible person who loves you.

Someone who'll know how to react when you ask, "Hey, honey, wanna go on a punishing hike with me?"

Lyle Sanford, RMT said...

"another snapshotting plebe" OUCH!

Meade said...

Want to take a picturesque gondola ride? Let’s take a couple bikes to the top of Keystone and shred our way back down. What could be more romantic?

Sebastian said...

"How is it a professional photographer didn't know that a gondola ride in Venice is tourist bullshit that could not possibly yield a good photograph, unless you were doing a photo essay satirizing tourism?"

Wait, are you saying this might be fake news? That women might actually lie?

Bob Boyd said...

Women. Can't leave with 'em. Can't leave without 'em.

Meade said...

If we leave now, we can be there in time for the bacon and bourbon festival.
https://www.keystoneresort.com/Explore-the-Resort/Activities-and-Events/Event-Detail?id=fe44c3ae-684d-4a18-808b-263396eba738

Tommy Duncan said...

"How to Plan the Perfect Trip..."

A good start would be to leave out the word "perfect".

Perfection is the enemy of the good.

traditionalguy said...

Seriously, try a week or two in Oahu and Maui at the Mandarin Oriental Kahala and the Four Seasons Wailea Beach. Then try to complain. Plenty to see and do in a perfect climate.

J. Farmer said...

@MadisonMan:

Don't go on a vacation with expectations that have to be met. That's what I would say.

Yes a thousand times over. When I lived in southeast Asia I hosted a number of old high school and college friends on vacation. This mindset invariably separated the good trips from the bad ones, regardless of what was actually done or seen.

jaydub said...

You must be a lot of fun on vacation, and Meade must be a saint. Maybe you should show your appreciation by letting him wear shorts sometimes. It would be cheaper than a Trump hotel.

brylun said...

Skip the gondola ride, and instead take the vaporetto to the out islands of Murano, Burano and Lido.

Get lost in the alley mazes of Venice, and stop for refreshments.

Hang out in Piazza San Marco (the plaza in front of St. Mark's Basilica) and enjoy a drink while listening to live classical music.

So many great things to do in Venezia!

buwaya said...

A good photographer can get excellent pictures in any situation, even in a "tourist" activity. And not by being ironic or satirical either.

A Venetian gondola ride is likely to yield thousands of opportunities for the "street" genre, for instance, which is mostly about people at the "decisive moment", with some interesting juxtapositions of uncommon contexts.

God shows us pictures all the time, he is extremely generous. They flow by second by second in a constant parade of riches. Its up to us to recognize them fast enough, and to know how to take them, and to overcome our own incompetence in executing the photography.

Expat(ish) said...

The wife and I are going even closer to the equator - seven nights in Key West. We have a smallish room at a quietish place near the cemetery. We have one night of a nice dinner planned, otherwise we have four things we both want to do - Hemingway, Fort Jefferson, sunset on the beach, and the Truman Little White House. I figure we can get that knocked out over a week.

Hard to imagine this won't be a great vacation. I have no idea what "perfect" would look like.

-XC

Original Mike said...

I learned long ago that the actual execution of a trip is challenging and that it’s not going to be nirvana. I think my realistic expectations are why I find my travels so fulfilling.

Original Mike said...

”That woman in the article sounds incredibly immature.”

Well, she is only 32.

Howard said...

Try taking bits of vacation everyday where you live. Trips are more fun if some or all of it had a practical purpose, like you are on a mission.

brylun said...

After 2-3 days in Venice, take a pleasant 2-hour train ride to Florence.

So much to do in Florence.

Spend a couple of days in Florence, and then take a train ride to Rome. Either go through Pisa (spend only a couple of hours there before re-boarding the train to Rome), or stop in Siena for a day or 2 before going to Rome.

From Rome, take a train to Naples, take the hydrofoil to Capri and spend a couple of nights on the Island of Capri. Visit the Blue Grotto.

From Capri, go back to the mainland, and visit Vesuvius and Pompei.

Then go to Sorrento and visit the Amalfi Coast.

Althouse, you are missing so much!

Bill, Republic of Texas said...

Brylun gets it. Venice is unique. Get lost in the alleys, watch the canal filled with water buses, water taxis, UPS brown delivery boats, police and fire boats. It really is interesting.

A gondola ride price is fixed by law. She wasn't out bid by other tourists. More fake news.

brylun said...

In Italy, wine is cheaper than water!

buwaya said...

Every day I am a tourist in San Francisco.
Still that, after 32 years.

Michael said...

Short trips are good. Two or three days in a foreign city are all that are needed to get the lay of the land and determine if a return is desired. With only a couple of days at hand it is mportant to savor only a few things and not try to do the tourist thing. Take a subway or bus ride for the hell of it and get off and wander around for a few hours. Go to a bookstore, have a coffee, sit on a bench in the park

You will learn something.

Michael said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Ann Althouse said...

"After 2-3 days in Venice, take a pleasant 2-hour train ride to Florence. So much to do in Florence. Spend a couple of days in Florence, and then take a train ride to Rome. Either go through Pisa (spend only a couple of hours there before re-boarding the train to Rome), or stop in Siena for a day or 2 before going to Rome. From Rome, take a train to Naples, take the hydrofoil to Capri and spend a couple of nights on the Island of Capri. Visit the Blue Grotto. From Capri, go back to the mainland, and visit Vesuvius and Pompei. Then go to Sorrento and visit the Amalfi Coast. Althouse, you are missing so much!"

I hate these trips where you have to keep jumping from one place to another ticking off "bucket list"y stuff. It doesn't feel human. I can't imagine the Blue Grotto can ever be what you want it to be when you take the trouble to go.

I have been to Italy twice — once to Genoa where I had a friend to stay with (and that included a side trip to Florence at a time of year when it was almost deserted) and once to go to Rome, where I got robbed by children (oh, think of the children!) and stayed in the nicest hotel at the top of the Spanish Stairs. I don't need to go hopping about to Pompeii and Naples and Capri, and I'm not interested in doing it alone anymore because it makes me feel too wistful, and Meade has zero interest in going. It's a lot of money and effort and the chances of enjoying it enough to be worth it are low. I have anosmia and get nothing from the tastes and smells and find restaurants mostly just a boring way to hemorrhage money.

Original Mike said...

re: short trips - I completely disagree if the trip requires air travel. Flying is likely to be the most disagreeable portion of any trip. To make that the predominate part of the trip is not my idea of a good time. I just spent 7 weeks in New Zealand, making even the long duration flights a small portion of the entire experience.

Ann Althouse said...

"A gondola ride price is fixed by law. She wasn't out bid by other tourists. More fake news."

I didn't read that as saying she was outbid. I just assumed they were ahead of her in line. But I wouldn't assume that a price fixing law could prevent bribery

Ann Althouse said...

"re: short trips - I completely disagree if the trip requires air travel. Flying is likely to be the most disagreeable portion of any trip. To make that the predominate part of the trip is not my idea of a good time. I just spent 7 weeks in New Zealand, making even the long duration flights a small portion of the entire experience."

7 weeks with your romantic partner? There's SO much that can go wrong. What if you have a fight... and still there are weeks left when you must be together?

Ever have a big fight on a trip? What a nightmare!!

Original Mike said...

”I hate these trips where you have to keep jumping from one place to another ticking off "bucket list"y stuff. It doesn't feel human.”

I agree. On my recent trip I spent 10 days staying at one location and 13 days at another. Allows you to settle in.

Ann Althouse said...

But I agree that the longer the time it takes to travel somewhere, the longer you ought to stay or it doesn't make sense. But that might argue in favor of choosing closer destinations, so there's less pressure that this had better be worth it and less to put up with if it's not going well and you're just trying to be game about it.

Original Mike said...

”7 weeks with your romantic partner? There's SO much that can go wrong. What if you have a fight... and still there are weeks left when you must be together?

Ever have a big fight on a trip? What a nightmare!!”


Actually, my wife was there for only 2 of the 7 weeks (at which point we did the “jumping from one place to another ticking off "bucket list"y stuff”, which was less satisfying.

But yeah, fighting on a trip is bad, which is why I put so much effort, when necessary, into not doing it. OTOH, fighting at home is bad too, which is why I put so much effort, when necessary, into not doing it.

Wilbur said...

I remind people who complain about our South Florida environs "Hey, you live in a place where people spend thousands to go on vacation."

Wilbur said...

"Ever have a big fight on a trip? What a nightmare!!"

A fight on a vacay trip ended the marriage to the second Mrs. Wilbur.

Lloyd W. Robertson said...

When my better half and I retired, I assumed we would do some travel. It turns out she really doesn't want to go anywhere. I anticipated she would use the dogs as an excuse, and was preparing to deal with that, but she really just doesn't want to go. As she says rightly, we made a rare trip to Ottawa that wasn't a big success.
One detail of the Ottawa trip I cherish in a perverse way. We found a movie theatre in the old part of town (most of them are now farther out), and we paid to see Terrence Malick's Tree of Life. My idea, not hers. She absolutely hated it, and insisted on leaving after about 15 minutes. I think I already knew that was a fairly common reaction to the movie, yet I went ahead anyway.

readering said...

In my experience a big part of romantic trips is room service. Fancy breakfast in bed.

John Scott said...

Got married on a Sunday. Spent the next 2 1/2 days in Carmel and was back to work on Thursday. It was an absolutely perfect honeymoon..

Tank said...

We had an excellent time on our gondola "ride" in Venice. Taking pictures of others from our tour, faking romantic pics (so our kids could go ewwwww), dodging other gondolas in narrow canals, commenting on the gondoleer's outfits. It was exactly what I expected.

The Blue Grotto was a waste, and then I pissed off our boat guide with a small tip (for it was a waste). Capri was interesting.

For Venice, you have to get away from those feckin touristas. Well, if you want to see some of the famous places you can't avoid them entirely. We had a great fun meal at an outdoor restaurant on a canal by the Rialto Bridge, and really enjoyed wandering the back alleys where "real" people lived. Actually, wandering those back alleyways and having that dinner were probably the highlight of our trip to Italy. At dinner it just seemed too good to be true, Venice, on a canal, boats passing by, delicious food, good wine, good company - it's great just thinking about it now.

brylun said...

I have been to Italy twice — once to Genoa where I had a friend to stay with (and that included a side trip to Florence at a time of year when it was almost deserted) and once to go to Rome, where I got robbed by children (oh, think of the children!) and stayed in the nicest hotel at the top of the Spanish Stairs. I don't need to go hopping about to Pompeii and Naples and Capri, and I'm not interested in doing it alone anymore...

I fully agree you shouldn't travel alone. That would be lonely and boring. But if you have a partner who is interested in you and in the places you are going, nothing can be better!

Yes, in Italy and elsewhere, you must be aware of pickpockets and thieves. Once, boarding a train in Barcelona, I reached in my pocket and pulled out a hand. The pickpocket went limp, and I thought about punching him, but glancing at the military guards with weapons near the train, I just pushed him away and continued on my journey. My advice: always keep your passport, credit cards and money in a neck pouch when in public places!

As far as "bucketlisty" goes, I have been to these places 3-4 times and I don't tire of the visit. Although anyone who takes money speaks English, I return from these trips with my Italian (Spanish, French...) brushed up, so that I can forget it again.

The other thing to remove yourself from the "tourist" category is to plan and execute these trips without a tour guide. Of my many, many trips the only one with guides was a Viking River Cruise in Russia from St. Petersburg to Moscow. Even when visiting mainland China, we did it without guides. My view is that's the best way.

Original Mike said...

Interesting to me that the travel examples are about Italy. My wife is trying to get me to go and I am resisting.

Darrell said...

There's no place like home.
With internet connectivity.

MadisonMan said...

John Scott: Congratulations!!

MadisonMan said...

Oh. "a Sunday". Not "Sunday"

That's Different.

Never Mind.

David Begley said...

Can we get a vacation from the whacked out NYT?

David Begley said...

The ultimate endorsement: Meade and Althouse stay in a Trump hotel.

That could be a full page ad in the failing New York Times!

tolkein said...

I've been to Venice many times, but only did a gondola ride once. We decided to do it after my wife had brought our children up to London to go to the Tower of London one afternoon. My office then was in the office building next to the Tower of London. I had been there for 7(!) years but never visited this world heritage site. Always too busy at work, and we realised we should do the sights wherever we could. So, next year, we did the gondola ride. Yes, it was touristy, but, hey, we were tourists. It was a bit tacky, but we enjoyed it.
Another time we were staying outside Venice (it was a cheap tourist beach resort, which we loved, not grand at all, called Lido di Jesolo)I had had to go to Milan on business and took the train back to Venice. The station itself was a bit shabby, but when I left the station at around 6pm to take the ferry to Jesolo across the lagoon the view outside was a wonder. It was magical. In a way that just seeing it on a video or internet could never be. It took my breath away. That's why you need to actually see the sights. And why being a tourist is not something to be snobby about.

Wilbur said...

John Scott said...
Got married on a Sunday. Spent the next 2 1/2 days in Carmel and was back to work on Thursday. It was an absolutely perfect honeymoon..
_________________________________________________________________________________
Mrs. Wilbur III and I went down to the South Broward Adjunct Courthouse on a Thursday morning, got married by a Court Clerk, then we each celebrated by going to work.

Expat(ish) said...

Pompeii and Vesuvius are amazing - no offense, but you'd have to be a philistine not to be affected and amazed. And, for Italy, it's all very efficiently done.

I believe my entire day bus/transfer/prosaic-lunch was $55.

-XC

PS - Naples, IT is about as charming as Naples, FL. Which is to say 'not so much.'

Rusty said...

Well. If it's a romantic trip and it's short there's a good chance it wont be with my wife.

Big Mike said...

By the way, everything I quoted from the article sounds to me like a screamed warning: Don't go on vacation!

Wife and I tend to like to do the same things, so vacations are a joy. We generally avoid the guided tour stuff and "if it's Tuesday this must be Belgium" sort of thing, but some day we will take a Canada Rail trip in a dome car through the Canadian Rockies, which is a bit different.

That's if Canada lets us in after they find out I voted for Trump.

Big Mike said...

What if you have a fight... and still there are weeks left when you must be together?

We have arguments now and we are going to be together the rest of our lives.

mockturtle said...

Better yet, don't go at all. Right, Ann?

daskol said...

I'm going to try that in December at Disney: honey, you take the kids to the Magic Kingdom. I'm going to lounge by the hotel pool reading magazines (are there still magazines?). The counseling bills will be worth it.

Bad Lieutenant said...

You lost me at "Don’t mope around a maritime museum." Where could you have a better time?