Several significant obstacles, however, remain to potentially prevent a version of the series from continuing without Barr. “Roseanne” is based on a character created by Barr, who could argue that she therefore has an ownership stake in any iteration that includes other characters created for the series, such as Sara Gilbert’s Darlene Conner, around whom much spinoff speculation has centered. Any situation in which Barr would stand to gain financially from a new series is considered unpalatable to ABC and producers.Quite aside from Roseanne's intellectual property interests, how can the idea of the Roseanne family work without Roseanne?
I've been very sympathetic to Sara Gilbert and others who have lost their job, but feeling bad about them isn't a great springboard for comedy. I'm not going to donate my time sitting watching TV to a make-work program for actors I feel sorry for. I've been watching Gilbert in the media in the aftermath of Roseanne's stupid tweets. For example, "Sara Gilbert Is 'Sad for the People Who Lost Their Jobs' on Roseanne" (People). Sadness... where's the comedy?
Gilbert's contribution to the show was kind of always a sad face. Darlene is world-weary, bitter, depressed (or something like that). Gilbert's sad face was designed to confront Roseanne. Who will Darlene confront without Roseanne? Don't say Dan. Dan is a character designed to love Roseanne. For all her sharp edges, he brought the love. What's he for without her? Is he just going to comfort and cheer up sad-faced Darlene?! Where's the comedy?!
Roseanne is kicked out because she was outrageous. She played a classic comedy role — crossing the lines, being offensive, and the rest of them grounded her and invited us in to love the crazily free-wheeling lady of the house, and we had a lot of fun there. But they rejected her. They booted out the mother. After all her outrageous talk, she said the wrong thing one day, and she's a pariah. Go! We hate you! You name — the name of our show — is nothing among decent people now. But why were we visiting this house all these years?
And why would we go back after you threw out your mother?! Because racism is bad? Racism is bad whether we go visit your house or not. We're not going to visit your sad, boring house as an anti-racism demonstration.
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The only way it would work is if Roseanne was still a character, but always off screen. They could have her be in the hospital for quite a while -- the car crash or the medical issue could happen off screen; first show or three is the reaction to that. Then it's the drama of will she be okay, meanwhile we have people learning how to do their own laundry, etc. Eventually they could have her die, get another two or three shows out of some twists and turns around that. Or they could have a marital crisis and she runs off somewhere and then it's the occasional phone call or letter while they learn how to do laundry.
They won't do this, because it doesn't sufficiently punish Roseanne--apparently there is a perceived need to banish her.
Who, exactly, is going to be watching this series? Roseanne fans? Who are, at least implicitly, being called racists for being Roseanne fans. What is the theory here? That you can ditch the star of a popular TV show and insult the fans and expect them to watch another show that has some of the same characters? This isn't the 1980s. There aren't just three broadcast networks and PBS. TV viewing is actually trending down even with all the new choices as younger people spend their screen time playing video games.
"We're not going to visit your sad, boring house as an anti-racism demonstration."
You might not but there's plenty of lefties that will consume awful content in the name of supporting a cause. "I watch Darlene" will be just another way to signal how progressive we all are.
It's too bad that Valerie Jarrett won't accept Roseanne Barr's apology.
People watching broadcast TV are the older generation. That's why you are getting reboots of series from the olden times and new series where most of the leads are familiar faces that us ancients are comfortable with. So you get the new Hawaii Five O, and a Magnum PI reboot is in the works, and 15 different versions of Law and Order or another NCIS spinoff. Roseanne was a part of that trend. Broadcast TV is dying because modern technology makes it obsolete.
You might not but there's plenty of lefties that will consume awful content in the name of supporting a cause. "I watch Darlene" will be just another way to signal how progressive we all are.
They claim they will, but actual sales figures show that they don't. Thus the bombing of the last Ghost Busters movie and the collapse of comic book sales.
Get woke, go broke.
I agree with Ron 6:17 above - ABC is showing us how little they understand about why the show was a giant hit in the first place, and why firing her over one stupid tweet was idiotic.
Fans of the show actually like her and her brutal honesty and that she was both politically incorrect and very caring for her family and other people in her community. Because ... that's how most actual people are.
Now we know what ABC thinks about all that. And ABC actually thinks it is helping the anti-Trump side! Lol. What a bunch of maroons.
The assumption that Roseanne did something bad is not a good starting point for thinking it through.
It's where a woman would start.
By the way, I recall reading somewhere that Dezi Arnaz was the guy who invented the use of multiple cameras to film TV shows on "I Love Lucy" and that in his older years while doing a cameo a member of the crew, unaware that Desi had invented the technique, gave him a tutorial on it. The use of 35mm film to directly film the shows, which produced a high-quality print, led to the concept of reruns and syndication. The point being that referrals to the Roseanne show as being multi-camera are pretentious. All comedies shows on TV use multiple cameras and sets. Its how it is done.
Broadcast TV is dying because modern technology makes it obsolete
If only. Same with cable news. CNBC anchors could do shows in their underwear and it would take days for anyone to notice yet they're still here.
Just die already...
I sympathize with Gilbert and the rest to a point, until they blame Barr for the whole thing, instead of standing up to corporate virtue-signalling bullies. ABC could easily - and should have - condemned the stupid tweet in strong terms, suspended her for one show, etc. Statement made, it's over, move forward.
But no, we live in stupid times, ruled by online mobs demanding heads on pikes, where firing people and publicly shaming them is preferred to acting like adults who disagree in a country founded on freedom of speech.
It's embarrassing and stupid, yet here we are.
The producers can send Darlene to go live with her auntie and uncle in Bel Air.
Thus the bombing of the last Ghost Busters movie
I watched the movie with the lowest of expectations, and it exceeded them. I've seen worse movies, that's for sure.
Where is the 20 year old Dylan of today to mock, satirize and ridicule the professor's ludicrous pretensions?
Blacks, gays and women are now institutionalized as saints above ridicule. We must kiss their asses.
And, notice how the prof's 60s nostalgia simply dies when it comes to worshipping her sacred cows. In the 60s, producers like Hefner and Lear defied the professor's prim PC and reaped a windfall profit by courting the controversy.
Things sure look different when you're running the show, huh boss? Now, your advice is to cower, go away and beg for mercy.
You're everything we ridiculed in the 60s, professor. You and your PC colleagues have been running the show for decades and, now, you're the problem. You are the oppressor, and you have been for a long time.
You know who your rulers are, because you're not allowed to mock them.
The producers can send Darlene to go live with her auntie and uncle in Bel Air.
I was thinking identical cousins.
Get Smart is supposed to be the series that showed how to use cameras.
Any situation in which Barr would stand to gain financially from a new series is considered unpalatable to ABC and producers.
"Gilbert also served as an executive producer"
So, Sara (and others) want to SCREW rosanne; but Also, want to continue to make money off of her; AND they want to make SURE that she gets NO GAIN from them screwing her...
AND: She's the bad one . It's TOO BAD that people can't penalize others at no cost to themselves.
No matter what they call a spinoff or reboot, it will be known to the public as the spinoff or reboot of Roseanne - without Roseanne. She will be a presence on every future episode.
It would serve as a warning to all that if you say something offensive, and you have also made the mistake of expressing some level of support for Trump and/or his supporters, you will be disappeared.
About a week ago I was watching the Indy 500 on ABC and realized it was the first time I had viewed ABC since the last Indy 500.
I also realized I had not viewed NBC since the end of the NFL season.
I don't see any reason to change that pattern in the future.
Fuck ABC - a mere playground for rich Hollywood leftists.
Overreaction tells you that there is something else behind the shown reaction.
ABC was embarrassed. Sara Gilbert was embarrassed.
Not by the Tweet, but by the show's audience.
They got to make their Statement that they were not One Of Them, that they are still the Good People Who Think Good Things, for which many people lost their jobs.
Over a Tweet.
The network TV pie is getting smaller as audiences go elsewhere. As such, your remaining audience says a lot about who you are. The networks used to be WalMart, where a lot of America shopped without pretense.
Now they don't want to be associated with the WalMart shoppers. Heavens, no.
And maybe they can't be a boutique like Netflix, but dammit they are set on at least being Target.
-LWL
I've been very sympathetic to Sara Gilbert and others who have lost their job...
The emotion I feel around an adult human being who uses the phrase "diversity, love, and inclusion" with a straight face is leeriness, not sympathy.
Roseanne's contrition in the aftermath of this, unfortunately, will be interpreted as weakness in the face of an Attack of the Single Loop Learners. It was not. She too was sad for Sara Gilbert and all her hard work, and for the rest of cast and crew. Because Roseanne, with her envelope pushing ways and disordered mind, actually cares about the "little people." I don't think you can be funny the way Roseanne is funny and not care. She probably was on Ambien, too. She's always been sloppy. Most comedians seem to be. All great comedians are.
Sara Gilbert, meanwhile, with the rug pulled out from under her, is going around distancing herself from Roseanne on every major forum she can find. And they're happy to have her. Ratings, at least until Samantha Bee and now Bill Clinton caught our attention, and also mission: must punish Roseanne. She showed weakness, which was actually strength of character, but it looked like our 2 minute hate was working.
Stars tend to be self-centered, weak-willed people with handlers and entourages and they're vulnerable in all sorts of ways. They attract bad people who want to take advantage for their own benefit. Monsters like Harvey Weinstein love stars and even more making them. Planets like Roseanne are different. Things revolve around them because they are good: genius, talent, character. That's a rare cluster, but it exists.
Give Gilbert a chance. John Goodman is no fool, nor is Metcalfe. They will ask for a lot of money. Disney blows a bunch of dough, Gilbert learns valuable lessons: a woman's got to know her limitations. Also loyalty, but Roseanne will forgive her. Nobody will watch it, but still, that's a very good show.
If only she had called Valerie Jarrett a cunt, so we wouldn't even have to talk about it.
Now Roseanne will become one of those shows, like All in the Family, Sanford and Sons, and Dukes of Hazzard that people watched fondly and now pretend they recognized and found revolting the constant bigotry and misogyny, thus they never watched.
Oh, and Disney won't learn a thing because their strategy is seemingly immutable. It's taken for granted at this point. There's no double-loop process working in that organization. It's top-down all the way down.
By this logic, All In The Family would never have been, Norman Lear would be a pariah, and Meat Head would never have become the darling of the Democratic Classes.
Complete and utter bullshit.
If they do make a "spin off," it should be boycotted.
For shame for shame ABC.
Progressives use words like "Love and diversity" then they back over you, over and over, until you're pulverized.
Burn the witch.
"If only she had called Valerie Jarrett a cunt, so we wouldn't even have to talk about it."
WRONG! There is a standard, and that standard is:
You Can NOT Insult Our L(eft wing l)eaders.
If she'd said that Melenia was a mix of Al Kyda (sic) and the Planet of the Aps; she'd have been feted and praised.
The Standard is: No one can insult the left; Anyone can insult the right
It's not a double standard; it's the same for Everyone
ABC can create yet another show filled with preaching progressive snow flakes, lecturing us on our anti-diversity, and lace it with Trump loathing. Should be good.
Why not just restart the show with her, have her make terrible tweets on the show, become a pariah on the show, and ruin her life on the show. Of course she is not famous on the show but it could all be within her little microcosm of neighbors and friends and family.
They should have made the tweets a plotline. Mama shows her out of touch sensibilities through insensitive tweets and the rest of the family has to deal with the repercussions until she sees the errors of her ways. Maybe they blame Ambien too!
RYAN: Why not just restart the show with her, have her make terrible tweets on the show, become a pariah on the show, and ruin her life on the show. Of course she is not famous on the show but it could all be within her little microcosm of neighbors and friends and family.
THAT is an EXCELLENT idea!
It's basically the "Curb Your Enthusiasm" model, where Larry does something boneheaded and is surrounded by people yelling at him. "Fuck you, Larry! Goddammit, Larry!"
Too bad the knuckleheads at ABC didn't have your creativity or courage.
It would have been a monster hit.
ABC has values.
Their show 'Blackish' is an insightful comedy about the struggles of a black family. Being black. In America.
As such, the show is very sensitive to social progress.
Like the time last year that they had Chris Brown as a guest on the show.
From Vox:
"Brown’s record of disturbing, dangerous, and abusive behavior is at least as prolific as his music career. In 2009, he beat his then-girlfriend Rihanna and left her with a swollen face, a split lip, and several bite marks on her arm. In 2011, he stormed out of a Good Morning America interview with Robin Roberts and smashed a window in his dressing room. Since then, many different women have accused him of shoving, punching, and pointing a gun at them, with the most recent incident occurring in August 2016 and ending with a standoff between Brown and the Los Angeles police...
Brown has also called Indian-American comedian Aziz Ansari “Aladdin” for criticizing him, and once dressed as a generically Middle Eastern terrorist for Halloween.
As my colleague Constance Grady has explained before, there is absolutely a double standard at play in the entertainment world in which white men with abusive histories still get plenty of work and recognition while black men with the same histories see their careers suffer. But that doesn’t, and shouldn’t, mean that men like Brown deserve a pass for consistent crimes. And it really doesn’t mean that Black-ish — a show whose self-awareness is usually one of its strongest assets — should ignore this history."
Bad Tweet: show cancelled. People lose their jobs.
Have a guest star who repeatedly beats minority women, had a stand-off with the police and is racist against an aggrieved minority?
A gentle rebuke, then business as usual.
Maybe Chris Brown and Sara Gilbert can do a show together.
LWL
There's a double standard for children and adults, why not for blacks. Implicit leftism.
Jason, yes exactly! Good analogy.
No matter how wretched a spin-off might be, we’d still have to sit through the media lauding it as the best and bravest thing ever. At least until it’s sudden demise. Maybe they could call it Hillary!.
The Left is like a stylus hopping in a LP scratch. Do they seriously not get how tired their schtick is or do they simply think that crude persistence will somehow win the day?
I'm old enough to remember the Hollywood Blacklist, when signing the wrong petition or expressing the wrong beliefs could end a career. Plus ça change.
They want the eyes and money of the Flyover people while still holding them in utter contempt.
Now, when the Cultural Elites were being snobs about knowing what mellifluous meant, recognizing operas, having a sense of history and philosophy, they were respected as KNOWING something worth knowing.
Then Ms. Althouses generation of Francophile philosophers got in charge who celebrate knowing nothing.
Charles Winchester, from MASH, was an elitist snob...but he was knowledgeable skilled, successful.
He has been replaced by Jimmy Kimmel, who is a douchenozzle.
Oh, and let's hate on white people, capitalism, and Western Culture, which created these wonderful places for them to sneer at everyone.
How does one say 'go fuck yourself' in Latin?
Sara Gilbert's character is a self-righteous royal pain in the ass. After five minutes her nasal whining becomes terminally boorish.
Give it a go, ABC. Idiots.
Who says the reboot has to be a comedy? Make it a real downer, all the terrible things that happen to people, to a family turning and turning in the widening gyre that is social media these days. Start with the Mom's suicide, driven to kill herself in some spectacular and horrible way because everyone in town thinks she's a bigot. That could be stretched out over several episodes. Will she? Won't she? Did she?
I jest. But not in commenting that if Sara Gilbert could carry a show for longer than 5 minutes someone would have built one around her long ago.
They just don't get it. Roseanne's punishment is disproportionate to her offense. Polanski's awards and honors were oblivious of his offenses.......I'm capable of making a bad joke, but I can't imagine that I would ever drug and rape a twelve year old girl--and then get a standing ovation from my peers. Roseanne's pr problem isn't a patch on Hollywood's.
You might not but there's plenty of lefties that will consume awful content in the name of supporting a cause. "I watch Darlene" will be just another way to signal how progressive we all are.
No, they will say they support it but won't watch. Black welfare mothers maybe but they don't buy anything that's advertised on these shows.
.I'm capable of making a bad joke, but I can't imagine that I would ever drug and rape a twelve year old girl--and then get a standing ovation from my peers.
In Hollywood? You would if you were a reliable, right-thinking libtard and queer ally.
Sally327 said...
Who says the reboot has to be a comedy? Make it a real downer, all the terrible things that happen to people, to a family turning and turning in the widening gyre that is social media these days. Start with the Mom's suicide, driven to kill herself in some spectacular and horrible way because everyone in town thinks she's a bigot. That could be stretched out over several episodes. Will she? Won't she? Did she?
this is a great idea. someone needs to pitch it to roseanne. bet she could even find a way to play it for laughs.
ABC got emotionally involved with a profit vehicle. One of the first rules of capitalism is to not let the peasants control production.
When the peasants revolt, bring out the steam rollers. Make them suffer.
ABC screwed-up, and the best thing they can do now, is fill the time slot with anything the Africans would enjoy. Give them a lolly-pop and pat them on the head.
seriously Sally327: minus the suicide, the original Roseanne show was a funny comedy about people who are really down on their luck. lots of upsetting things happen to them. that was also true of the reboot. grown kids coming to live with mom. sisters without much in the way of prospects for themselves or even their kids, early middle age, getting sloshed in a heartwarming, funny coda to the episode. Roseanne could play a suicide for sitcom laughs if anyone can. that is her genius. she cares, and she's funny. she can making caring funny.
"ABC screwed-up, and the best thing they can do now, is fill the time slot with anything the Africans would enjoy. Give them a lolly-pop and pat them on the head."
Lolly-pop? My understanding is that the going rate is a Hamilton.
Ron Winkleheimer said... What is the theory here? That you can ditch the star of a popular TV show and insult the fans and expect them to watch another show that has some of the same characters?
That's what Disney is doing with Star Wars. It is not working out well for them.
Etienne, smoking from your own stash is indeed a terrible idea. But this is far bigger than emotional involvement with the sitcom or its star. Disney is on a PC mission. That's reflected not only in their comedy lineup, but also in their senior leadership personnel and priorities. ABC already has Blackish on that evening, which Africans, among others, seem to enjoy. Also Fresh Off the Boat, which Asians and significant numbers of non-Asians seem to enjoy. I find both of those comedies pretty blah, but my wife and kids enjoy blackish. Not Africans, but brownish, since my wife is Brown (I'm white and Jewish). Once again, an interesting observation re priorities in capitalism, but the point is likely to be lost given the subsequent errors in the analysis, and the phrasing you use which makes it seem as though you might harbor some resentment against Africans. Although, who doesn't love a lolly-pop and a pat on the head?
A good idea would be to have the Conner's sell products in the time slot,,,
...(tampons, anti-diarrhea, toiletry, rotisseries, etc)...
...and then have the commercials for those products provide the comedy.
Agree with Sarah Rolph. Like the challenge of continuing a show w/o its star on-camera.
The workable: She's at an expensive substance-abuse ranch paid for by a wacky crowd-fund. Some contribute to help her; others to keep her away. She sends periodic tweets or texts.
The wicked: she moves to Africa. Only occasional letters; no digital communication.
Ron Winkleheimer said..
"...referrals to the Roseanne show as being multi-camera are pretentious. All comedies shows on TV use multiple cameras and sets. Its how it is done."
It's not a matter of pretention. Multi-camera simply means shot "live", generally with three cameras, in front of studio audience, in the old style of I LOVE LUCY. As opposed to sitcoms like MODERN FAMILY, which would be called "single-camera" (even though there are probably multiple cameras on set), because it is shot more like a drama or movie on a stage set with no audience. That is the real distinction, and it's simply Variety-style lingo, not pretentiousness.
By the way, TV shows, single or multi-camera, are no longer shot on 35mm film, they are shot on HD video. And there's no "taping" before a live audience anymore, because there is no tape. Everything is digital now and on hard drives.
I met Desi Arnaz back in the seventies; a very nice man. He and classic-era cinematographer Karl Freund, whose credits go back to METROPOLIS and DRACULA, devised the 3 camera system together, with Freund solving the problems of lighting the stage set in such a way as to be flattering to Lucy, who was in her 40s when the show began. Between them, they literally invented the system that was used for filming or videoing such shows for 50 years. But with HD digital video the technology and way of doing things has changed tremendously.
Call it "w/o Roseanne". Start it off with her having committed suicide.
" But with HD digital video the technology and way of doing things has changed tremendously."
Which was apparently invented by Jerry Lewis.
The producers can send Darlene to go live with her auntie and uncle in Bel Air.
Well-played.
AA states...."...I've been very sympathetic to Sara Gilbert and others who have lost their job..."? Really? Why? These are actors making a living on a "make-believe" show which may or not be successful. How many shows, movies, etc. has Gilbert been in that have been successful and not provided her an income. I disagree with ABC's/Disney's heavy handedness in cancelling the show however, it is their right to do this no matter what the reason - private property rights. Having said that, it was a knee-jerk reaction by Disney to a silly tweet for which Roseanne apologized. I guess the "Mob" no longer accepts apologies? Consequently, we will see more of this B.S. cancelling of shows? Like, Bill Maher's insults! Nah, this PC B.S.-only goes in one direction.
Disney's string of successes over the past 5 years seems to be hitting a wall - which is not surprising - cause the Hollywood crowd cannot help but tinker with a successful format. Look at Stars Wars and Marvel! Race-baiters and gender warriors who complain endlessly about the “lack of diversity” in comic books or shows don’t buy comic books or go see movies or watch TV series. They’re interested in identity politics, not fun. Hell Marvel brought out a female Thor - female Captain America, and a 15yr. old female Ironman. This tinkering to progressives is ridiculous and will just tarnish the brands over time.
Sara Gilbert's character is a self-righteous royal pain in the ass. After five minutes her nasal whining becomes terminally boorish.
Precisely. The few times I watched the show the first time around, she was an insufferable bitch even then. Click.
A spin off might work. There are plenty of lousy successful shows on TV.
The people who cancelled the show do not care too much how well a new show does. What is a couple of million, give or take? They are already multi millionaires so if ABC doesn't do well they are still set for life.
If Gilbert had taken a sympathetic attitude with Roseanne, maybe Roseanne would work a deal about using her name , if that is important.
I suspect Roseanne is transitioning from "I feel terrible" to "Fuck those guys, this is bullshit"
"Darlene" will crash and burn in the ratings after the Roseanne fans tune into the first episode and realize what's happened.
God the most hilarious part will be Roseanne Barr trash-tweeting the new show. I bet her tweets will get more views.
Gosh, I feel like sending Rosanne Patreon money just for this entertainment.
A spin off is a great idea.
Darlene should come out as a bitter lesbian as she is real life. She can get married to a race baiting black lesbian....I don't know.....somebody like Wanda Sykes. They can spend their time doing very special episodes where Dan and Becky and DJ can be bigoted against blacks, Mexicans, MS-13 members and radical homos who want to be Scout leaders when their transgender son wants to join a coed Scout Troop. They can use every episode to instruct the poor rubes who deplorables who cling to their guns and their horrible Christian religion. It can be a "teachable moment" every week.
It is sure to be a smash hit. What could go wrong? This is the show that America is waiting for with baited breath.
They don't need a spin-off, they just need to find another network.
I bet the other networks would love to host the show.
Money, Money, Money!
How about this show idea?
We can combine Project Runway with Fear Factor. Have designers compete in death defying stunts. They don't have to design anything because since the Miss USA Beauty Pageant has outlawed bating suits to be politically correct you don't actually have to have any talent. You just have to make the group diverse.
So they can compete and when the lose they die.
It will be titled "Calling a Spade a Kate Spade."
Hosted by Joe Rogan and that gay guy.
Blogger Loren W Laurent said...
ABC has values.
And if you don't like those, well, they have others
"Bating suit' is by light years a better name.
I'm all a quiver with excitement. I will be racing not to watch it.
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