June 9, 2018

"President Donald Trump said he wants to meet with NFL players and other athletes who kneel during the National Anthem so they can recommend people they think should be pardoned due to unfair treatment by the justice system."

"In what he seemingly sees a solution, President Donald Trump said he wants NFL players and other athletes who kneeled during the National Anthem," CNN report-opines.

"Seemingly sees"... I'm enjoying that confusion. What Trump is doing here is using lateral thinking. You don't go directly for a solution. You take a different angle. This is the stable genius par excellence.

Here's the Wikipedia entry for "lateral thinking":
Lateral thinking is solving problems through an indirect and creative approach, using reasoning that is not immediately obvious and involving ideas that may not be obtainable by using only traditional step-by-step logic. The term was promulgated in 1967 by Edward de Bono. He cites as an example the Judgment of Solomon, where King Solomon resolves a dispute over the parentage of a child by calling for the child to be cut in half, and making his judgment according to the reactions that this order receives....

To understand lateral thinking, it is necessary to compare lateral thinking and critical thinking. Critical thinking is primarily concerned with judging the true value of statements and seeking errors. Lateral thinking is more concerned with the "movement value" of statements and ideas. A person uses lateral thinking to move from one known idea to creating new ideas....
It's possible that lateral thinking could be especially appealing to black people, at least that's what occurs to me after reading this piece by Katherine Timpf in National Review about a college course that teaches that supposedly teaches that "objectivity" is a "white mythology." The course — according to its official description — looks at "systematic logics that position ‘the West’ and ‘whiteness’ as the ideal manifest through such social constructions as objectivity, meritocracy, and race." The National Review calls that "crazy."

I'd say it's objectively true that some people think that stressing "objectivity" is a power move associated with white males. How do you reach people who feel like that? If you think the answer is by continuing to pressure them in the way that feels white-privileged, then you have lost touch with the real world of human beings.

Timpf writes:
The idea that objectivity is somehow a myth, or that it has anything even remotely to do with “whiteness,” is so absolutely stupid that I feel like I don’t even have to spend time explaining why. 
Well, ironically, that's an emotional reaction to a misreading of a text. The course description doesn't really mean that objectivity is a myth, but that people in power use claims of their own objectivity to solidify and extend their power. I'd say that's so obvious that I feel like I don’t even have to spend time explaining why. Timpf goes on to snark that "water is objectively wet," which must feel comfortable and cleansing but says little about how the human mind works and how some human beings gain and keep power over others.

AND: At Debate.org (whatever that is) the question "Is water wet?" is polling at 49% "yes" and 51% "no." "No" might be winning because it's more interesting, but check out some of the arguments! For example:
Water isn’t wet Wet is what you would use to describe the feeling of water, not what it is. Things become wet after it’s been “touched” by water not while it is being “touched”. Water makes things wet but it is not wet itself. I get when you say “water is wet” but your not stating something, you’re just describing water.
And:
Just going to give you words from a scientist's pen. Back in the old days, when water was where we needed to spend our time, touch was a lot more important than it is now. We as beings had to be immediately aware if we were going in or out of water. Therefore, the feeling of wet is a primal sensory reminder.

However, thereafter once we ascended onto the land and trees, the feeling of wet became a sensory reminder of something out of the ordinary; it is raining - get shelter, you fell in a creek - start swimming.

The reason it feels as it feels when water touches the skin is actually a complex electro-chemical reaction which works at amazing speeds. The sensory inputs are a combination of:

1. Your body's pH at that moment
2. The water's pH
3. Your body's temperature at that moment
4. The water's temperature
5. The atmospheric pressure
6. Molecular polarity
This makes me think about the famous David Foster Wallace essay, "This is Water," which begins:
There are these two young fish swimming along, and they happen to meet an older fish swimming the other way, who nods at them and says, “Morning, boys, how's the water?” And the two young fish swim on for a bit, and then eventually one of them looks over at the other and goes, “What the hell is water?”
I'm thinking of other dialogue for Wallace's fish, like:
"You know how you feel wet?"

"Wet?! What are you talking about? I feel... the same... all the time!"

364 comments:

«Oldest   ‹Older   201 – 364 of 364
Drago said...

ARM: "I am old enough to remember when insulting the Brits was viewed as a bad thing by those on the right."

We have a $150B annual trade deficit with the EU and the tariffs/subsidies structures purposefully hamper and hinder American competitiveness.

Now, I have to be careful here because I know writing that actually pleases the left, but I'm actually saying that's not a good thing and is going to change under Trump.

I'm sorry ARM, your European betters are simply going to have to accept that we refuse to be their little piggy bank any longer.

Perhaps a group rate for therapy could be arranged for the US lefties and the European Union-ophiles.

FullMoon said...

It is always something bad will happen, maybe. Jobs up, unemployment down. But, just wait, bad moon a'risin".
LOL



“We think it’s going to be pretty devastating to us,” said Jeff Schwager, president of Sartori Cheese in Plymouth.

“Uncertainty is the killer. If these tariffs go into place, what will they be? And how long will they last? We are in uncharted territory,” he said.

Darrell said...

The trade imbalance is a feature of our lawmakers' plan, not a bug. They want money to flow out of the US, even if it forces American businesses to shut down. That way they don't have to vote on Foreign Aid Bills and get their names on the record. They don't give a shit that Americans are put out of work. I've been told that these are dirty businesses that nobody would want to work at, anyway. Dirty and smelly. They've ruined $7000 suits just visiting those places. The smell of lubricating oil is impossible to get out of the fabric.

Fuck the Democrats and fuck Inga.

Drago said...

ARM: "Guess who has received the most sanctions from Trump?"

The Trade negotiations with China are ongoing and are a single (large) part of a multi-dimensional series of negotiations involving military and regional matters (with Japan, the Koreas and other Asian partners).

Canada and Mexico have structured side deals with 3rd parties to use their nations as conduits into the US to avoid our trade restrictions/requirements.

But, naturally, you support the exploitation of the NAFTA loopholes that allow that and destroy our native industries. Perhaps you derive pleasure from that.

In any event, time to change amigos! New Sheriff in town (and no, not Biden. He's off manhandling some underage girl in a photo op somewhere)

Inga...Allie Oop said...

“It's a shame you and your pals just had to give our jobs and money away just to feel better about yourselves and reward other nations, but this is where we are now, because of you.”


Propagandizer, it was the during the Republican President George W Bush’s administration we saw the most manufacturers outsourcing to overseas.
——————————————————
Bush Supports Shift of Jobs Overseas
The loss of work to other countries, while painful in the short term, will enrich the economy eventually, his report to Congress says.

February 10, 2004

WASHINGTON — The movement of American factory jobs and white-collar work to other countries is part of a positive transformation that will enrich the U.S. economy over time, even if it causes short-term pain and dislocation, the Bush administration said Monday.

The embrace of foreign outsourcing, an accelerating trend that has contributed to U.S. job losses in recent years and has become an issue in the 2004 elections, is contained in the president's annual report to Congress on the health of the economy.

"Outsourcing is just a new way of doing international trade," said N. Gregory Mankiw, chairman of Bush's Council of Economic Advisors, which prepared the report. "More things are tradable than were tradable in the past. And that's a good thing."

The report, which predicts that the nation will reverse a three-year employment slide by creating 2.6 million jobs in 2004, is part of a weeklong effort by the administration to highlight signs that the recovery is picking up speed. Bush's economic stewardship has become a central issue in the presidential campaign, and the White House is eager to demonstrate that his policies are producing results.

http://articles.latimes.com/2004/feb/10/nation/na-bushecon10

Darrell said...

And fuck the yachting-class Republicans that involuntarily raped American businesses to fund this bullshit.

Beloved Commenter AReasonableMan said...

Drago said...
We have a $150B annual trade deficit with the EU


We have a $375 billion trade deficit with China. And, more to the point, the EU treats its workers better than the US whereas China treats it workers much worse. That we have a trade deficit with the EU is a national disgrace that reflects poorly on US manufacturers and service providers. That we have such a large deficit with China reflects poorly on them and the way they treat both their own people and the rest of the world.

Drago said...

Inga: "Propagandizer, it was the during the Republican President George W Bush’s administration we saw the most manufacturers outsourcing to overseas."

LOL

It's like Inga STILL hasn't caught up to what happened in 2016!!

Hey Inga, my response is DUH!!!

Trump ran against the Republican establishment before he ran against the democrat establishment all the while being spied upon and setup by the govt establishment with the full complicity of the media establishment.

Trump states plainly in every speech, as he has earlier today, that the Trade policies and foreign policies are the results of BOTH parties.

He literally did that again today, repeatedly.

How can you be that oblivious about that this far down the road when even all the dem analysts have been saying that for 2 years?

LOL

Amazing.

Beloved Commenter AReasonableMan said...

Drago said...
Canada and Mexico have structured side deals with 3rd parties to use their nations as conduits into the US to avoid our trade restrictions/requirements.


Let's say, for the sake of argument that this is true. Why not, a) deal with the problem directly rather than use the BS national security argument and b) deal directly China which is the source of the problem.

Stupid, stupid rat creatures.

Drago said...

ARM: "That we have a trade deficit with the EU is a national disgrace that reflects poorly on US manufacturers and service providers."

This is what is commonly referred to as a lie.

Our manufacturers/producers were purposely put at a permanent and unsustainable disadvantage.

Your lying about it now will not change the voters minds who put Trump in office. Those voters know you and dems and the establishment republicans are lying about this.

That's why it's the big guy in office and not the "throw me around like a sack of potatoes" drunkard Hillary.

Inga...Allie Oop said...

It’s like Drago forgot that Trump is a Republican.

Drago said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Birkel said...

Progressives are arguing: 'Nothing can be allowed to change.'

Conservatives are arguing: 'The current course is unsustainable and must be changed.'

Breath it in.

Drago said...

Inga: "It’s like Drago forgot that Trump is a Republican."

LOL

There is literally nothing to say with something that stupid. Trump has upended the Republican and democrat establishments, as EVERY analyst from all sides has pointed out now for 18 months.

But no, Inga will lump him in with Kasich or something.

Too funny.

Beloved Commenter AReasonableMan said...

Drago said...
Our manufacturers/producers were purposely put at a permanent and unsustainable disadvantage.


This is bullshit and you descended into personal attacks because you know the truth. US manufacturing, in particular, has been run by a bunch of Quislings who sold out to the highest bidder.

Drago said...

ARM: "Let's say, for the sake of argument that this is true."

Nope.

It is true. Which is why Mexico and Canada are squealing.

If you really want to see how that played out go back and review how the Chinese treated Li'l Justin when they realized they were NOT going to be able to use him any longer to backdoor their way into the US with their products!

LOL

Hilarious. They basically told him to beat it.

Too funny.

Darrell said...

Thank God we finally have a President that wasn't part of the original betrayal of the American workers. I don't care what his motivations are, he seems to always do the right thing for Americans. Finally. The US is the marketmaker for the World. The others can't afford to lose the US market. They are holding their breath underwater while we have a thousand SCUBA tanks. Let's see who gives up first.

Greg P said...

"I'd say it's objectively true that some people think that stressing "objectivity" is a power move associated with white males. How do you reach people who feel like that?"

You don't , because they're freaking lunatics, and there's no way to "reach" them.

"The course description doesn't really mean that objectivity is a myth, but that people in power use claims of their own objectivity to solidify and extend their power."

If "the people in power" are wrong, then you have objective measures by which you can prove it.

Throwing out objectivity is done by people who either:
1: Are lunatics
2: Think they can use their power to bully in their ideas, and so don't want an honest debate

Darrell said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Drago said...

ARM: "This is bullshit and you descended into personal attacks..."

LOL

You are a moron, or ignorant, or lying. Probably all 3.

Our Steel, coal, aluminum and other heavy industries were put at a permanent disadvantage via agreed upon tariffs, restrictions, subsidies by our competitor nations, etc and all those jobs and raw materials were shifted to foreigners.

By design.

Whether you accept it or not is utterly irrelevant.

So scream at the moon loco. Your time is up.

Drago said...

ARM: "US manufacturing, in particular, has been run by a bunch of Quislings who sold out to the highest bidder."

US manufacturing, in particular, has been run by a bunch of people fighting a losing battle on a battlefield created by political Quislings of both parties who sold us out to our international competitors.

Interesting note: ONLY the lefty base approves of what their party elders did. The republican base finally threw them out.

Drago said...

Take a quick gander at who all previous US Trade Representatives were and what their backgrounds were for the last 30 years.

Not a single business person amongst them.

All lawyers, political insiders, politicians, bankers, etc.

grackle said...

I'm betting the players will move the goal posts to a different issue because it's protesting they are about. Not fixing problems.

I don’t question the motivations of the kneelers. On the validity of the original ostensible issue (police brutality against blacks) I assume they are sincere but misguided and ignorant of the facts. Even so, I would never object to peaceful demonstrations, press releases, press conferences, town halls, op eds, articles, etc. But if they do it during the anthem I will not stand by or stand down. The anthem is sacred, the flag is sacred and the sacrifice of our war dead is sacred. They have done their cause no good by desecrating them.

They apparently have no regard for the anthem, see no problem with using the nation’s anthem for their own purposes. They seem to consider it sort of equivalent to a hot-rod racer adding nitro to gasoline in order to get more power from the engine and so they seemed to have believed that desecrating the anthem would give their protest more “punch.” All it did was obscure the issue. As sometimes happens when volatile elements are mixed incautiously the situation blew up in their faces.

If the kneeling continues (as I believe it will) there will be more financial losses for the owners. I’m counting on Trump to pound them unmercifully. I want those arrogant bastards punished.

Trump’s offer is brilliant. If they refuse the offer - Trump wins. If they take him up on his offer – Trump wins. It’s one of those Trump win/win situations that Scott Adams keeps referring to.

Inga...Allie Oop said...

“US manufacturing, in particular, has been run by a bunch of Quislings who sold out to the highest bidder.”

Hear hear!

Beloved Commenter AReasonableMan said...

Drago you protest way too much. The European car makers are at a natural disadvantage relative to US car manufacturers yet they still win market share by producing a better product. US manufacturing companies have been run by an appalling mixture of Quislings and losers, almost to a man Republicans and members of the Chamber of Commerce.

Inga...Allie Oop said...

“US manufacturing, in particular, has been run by a bunch of people fighting a losing battle on a battlefield created by political Quislings of both parties who sold us out to our international competitors.”

Yet just a few minutes ago The Propagandizer was blaming on Leftists. Changing his mind after ARM told him an obvious truth.

“It's a shame you and your pals just had to give our jobs and money away just to feel better about yourselves and reward other nations, but this is where we are now, because of you.”

Darrell said...

US manufacturing, in particular, has been run by a bunch of people fighting a losing battle on a battlefield created by political Quislings of both parties who sold us out to our international competitors.

This.
Congress giving away other peoples' money.
Like usual.

Browndog said...

As it was pointed out-

Eagle fans are an enclave, limited to greater Philly. Pennsylvania, on whole, are Steeler fans.

Further, polling suggest 2/3 support the President over the players on this protest issue. For anyone to suggest this sad attempt by the team to sandbag Trump will have any affect, let alone swing an election, isn't serious.

Darrell said...

In the old days, the people that cut these unholy trade deals with foreigners would be hanging from the lamp posts. Lucky for them this isn't the old days.

Inga...Allie Oop said...

Darrell,

ARM said it first and even the Propagandizer could not with a straight face disagree, lol.

ARM said...
“US manufacturing, in particular, has been run by a bunch of Quislings who sold out to the highest bidder.”

Inga...Allie Oop said...

“US manufacturing companies have been run by an appalling mixture of Quislings and losers, almost to a man Republicans and members of the Chamber of Commerce. “

Hear hear again!

Inga...Allie Oop said...

“Eagle fans are an enclave, limited to greater Philly. Pennsylvania, on whole, are Steeler fans.

Further, polling suggest 2/3 support the President over the players on this protest issue. For anyone to suggest this sad attempt by the team to sandbag Trump will have any affect, let alone swing an election, isn't serious.”

That and many many other issues, duh.

“A solid majority of American voters — with the exception of Republicans — believe that NFL players can take a knee during the National Anthem and still be patriots, a new poll said Thursday.

American voters by 58 percent to 35 percent said the players were not unpatriotic, the Quinnipiac University survey found.“

Inga...Allie Oop said...

“Voters also said by 53 percent to 43 percent that professional athletes have the right to protest on the playing field or court. Men and women agree, but there were wide racial and party divisions.”

Quinnipiac Poll

Darrell said...

US manufacturing, in particular, has been run by a bunch of people fighting a losing battle on a battlefield created by political Quislings of both parties who sold us out to our international competitors.

This. Times a googleplex.
Congress giving away other peoples' money.
Like usual.

Two can play this game.

Browndog said...

Sen. Pat Toomey (R-Penn) along with Bob Corker(R) are introducing a Bill to strip Trump of his ability to impose tariffs.

In an interview today he said it was necessary because Trump is going to start a trade war, and the tariffs are unnecessary because we hardly buy any steel from China.

Odd, because liberals tell me Mueller will be more than fair with Trump because they're both Republicans.

Darrell said...

Hillary reportedly said something like 'We will be swinging from lamp posts if Trump wins the election." I trust she knows the extent of her crimes and those of the people around her. Lock her up, along with her peeps.

Francisco D said...

Inga is selectively cutting and pasting again, with no willingness or ability to thoughtfully analyze.

She is obviously the lower tier of reliable Democrat voters that he party only needs to do the minimum to placate.

How will they deal with voters who actually think and are not on the dole or the crony capitalist express?

Browndog said...

American voters by 58 percent to 35 percent said the players were not unpatriotic, the Quinnipiac University survey found.“

That's not the question. The polling questions are worded in such a way to make it appear the protests have support.

Drago said...

Inga: "Yet just a few minutes ago The Propagandizer was blaming on Leftists. Changing his mind after ARM told him an obvious truth."

LOL

Trump was elected because the republican base recognized how the establishment from both parties sold out our industries.

And so did enough independents and democrats.

Apparently, Inga has missed this mist important point until today..

Too funny.

Drago said...

Inga: "“Voters also said by 53 percent to 43 percent that professional athletes have the right to protest on the playing field or court. Men and women agree, but there were wide racial and party divisions.”

LOL

Of course they have the right to protest, and the league has the right to establish the rules for said protests, and Trump has the right to criticize them and use their protests to make his political points.

Inga...Allie Oop said...

“And so did enough independents and democrats.”

More propagandizing again. His opponent was Hillary Clinton. If he makes it to 2020, he’ll be facing someone else. Plus we all (hopefully) are much wiser when it comes to fake news and Facebook and other social media sites who pumped out Russian propaganda. He had an easy win, it won’t be nearly as easy this time... I’ve he lasts that long.

Browndog said...

Plus we all (hopefully) are much wiser when it comes to fake news and Facebook and other social media sites who pumped out Russian propaganda.

Oh, boy.

Inga...Allie Oop said...

Plus you folks should get on your knees (and hands as Guilianni might say, lol) and thank Comey for what he did only days before the election.

Gk1 said...

You just know Goodell and the other NFL owners are just squirming and hoping against hope that Trump stops picking at the low hanging fruit they provided for Trump. What were these dumb fucks thinking when they went all in on kneeling Sept.24th 2017? Everytime Trump brings up the NFL, their popularity shrinks. It's not being replaced by social justice warriors who couldn't give two shits for the game in the first place. I'm glad Trump is engaging with these multi-million dollar hypocrites. The "dialogue" will be illuminating.

Drago said...

LOL

Inga doesnt think any independents or democrats voted for Trump AND a few rhoysand facebook ads swung the election to Trump.

The very very best part: inga and ARM are arguing for a continuation of the very Trade deals and outcomes that led to Trumps victory in the first place.

LOL

Magic.

Inga...Allie Oop said...

“Oh, boy.”

Are you denying it happened? You didn’t read anything about Mark Zuckerberg testifying in front of Congress? Maybe he did it just because he was bored?

Drago said...

Inga: "..thank Comey for what he did only days before the election."

Comey and McCabe's sham "investigation" into Hillary in the first place followed up by their attempted coverup of the Weiner laptop emails (late Sep to late Oct 2016) came back to bite them and the $2Billion crook Hillary.

LOL

Inga...Allie Oop said...

Gotta run, I’m having dinner with some Republican friends who say they won’t be voting for Trump again, despite the economy. Whoa. They don’t like Trade Wars either.

Beloved Commenter AReasonableMan said...

Drago said...
Trump was elected because the republican base recognized how the establishment from both parties sold out our industries.


For decades we were told that the failure of our industries was solely because of our crappy workers. Now this is unfashionable. Now it's all the politician's fault. But, the Republican politicians were bought and paid for by the industrialists since time immemorial. Seems to me that the industrialists, the Kochs of the world, have done a very good job of doing well for themselves while pasting the blame for their failures on anyone other than themselves.

Browndog said...

Are you denying it happened? You didn’t read anything about Mark Zuckerberg testifying in front of Congress? Maybe he did it just because he was bored?

If liberals do an efficient job at reminding the voters that Russia stole the election, I suspect you'll do well in the fall.

Voters have a short memory, so the DNC needs to hammer that point home on a daily basis this fall.

Drago said...

I don't blame ARM for trying to change the subject from modern Trade policies.

He's been shown to be quite the ignoramus on Trade issues and worse, in my opinion, he appears quite happy to remain that way.

Alas.

This joker actually is trying to make the case that it's business folks who made Trade policy!

Amazing.

But do carry on. From what I've seen with ARM, LLR Chuck's and ARM's posting today, I'm quite confident that the polls showing Trump solidifying his support amongst the key voters in the those midwest and farm states are reflective of reality.

Gahrie said...

I have a modest proposal, dump the "feelz".

The whole point about attacking truth and objectivity is so that it becomes about the feelz instead.

Michael said...

ARM
Guess who was sidling up to Trump in Canada? Making friends. Again.
Even our leftie neighbor to the north knows when a negotiation is underway. Lefties here not so much.

Michael said...

Inga
They are lying to you to shut you up. LOL. Of course they aren't going to vote for Trump because....well because they can't for another two years.

Gahrie said...

You know, the new girl shows up at the office, first casual Friday, top shows not extremely but enough to unmask the boy magnets, I don't feel like it's my fault.


So what? The only thing that matters is what she feels.

Drago said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Drago said...

I'll bet ARM doesn't think that the obama admin kept shutting down the Keystone pipeline to keep Buffets Burlington Northern railroad cars full of the oil that otherwise would be transported in the pipeline.

LOL

What a bunch of ignorant lefty schmucks.

How do they get out of bed in the morning?

Michael said...

Inga is arguing a very vital point. Lefties are glued to Facebook seeing where their friends are vacationing and as stupid as they are were fooled into reading "fake news" from Russia which caused them to ignore every single solitary post of their friends calling Trump Hitler and pulled the trigger for him. LOL. Good point,Inga. Plus Zuckerberg plus congress. LOL

Inga...Allie Oop said...

Michael, who said they were speaking about 2018, dumbass. Now, I’m off! My Republican friends are not pretentious assholes like you and I don’t want to be rude and make them wait.

Drago said...

Inga: "My Republican friends are not pretentious assholes like you and I don’t want to be rude and make them wait."

Did you let them know that you labeled all Trump voters as racist traitors on this very blog.

I'm betting you didn't.

Beloved Commenter AReasonableMan said...

Drago said...
it's business folks who made Trade policy!


Not sure how stupid you have to be to not know this.

Leora said...

There's an anecdote that Gingrich told about Richard Daley, the mayor of Chicago for many years. When Martin Luther King came to Chicago to confront him, he said that there were people living in Chicago without heat and hot water. Daley asked for their addresses so he could send out his building inspectors to force the landlords to fix the problem.

Drago said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Drago said...

ARM: "Not sure how stupid you have to be to not know this."

LOL

2013-2017
Michael Froman, United State Trade Representative

2009-2013
Ronald Kirk, United State Trade Representative

2006-2009
Susan C. Schwab, United States Trade Representative

2005-2006
Rob Portman, United States Trade Representative

2001-2005
Robert B. Zoellick, United States Trade Representative

1997 - 2000
Charlene Barshefsky, United States Trade Representative

1993-1996
Michael Kantor, United States Trade Representative

1989-1993
Carla A. Hills, United States Trade Representative

1985-1989
Clayton K. Yeutter, United States Trade Representative

1981-1985
William E. Brock III, United States Trade Representative

1979-1981
Reubin O’D Askew, United States Trade Representative

1977-1979
Robert S. Strauss, Special Trade Representative

January 20, 1977 - March 30, 1977
Alan Wolff, Acting United States Trade Representative

1975-1977
Frederick B. Dent, Special Trade Representative

1971-1975
William D. Eberle, Special Trade Representative

1969-1971
Carl J. Gilbert, Special Trade Representative

1967-1969
William M. Roth, Special Trade Representative

1962-1966
Christian A. Herter, Special Trade Representative

Not a single solitary industrialist/manufacturing person amongst them.

Not a single one.

I'm not sure how stupid you have to be to not know this.

Drago said...

Trudeau is in an impossible position.

Trump doesn't care about his complaints and Trump is shutting down the NAFTA loophole that lets China and others abuse our system via Canadian complicity for which Canada was always paid fees.

Those fees are going away...and under a new structure which chokes off the loophole China doesn't need Li'l Justin anymore.

BTW, did you notice that Canada has decided their open door policy for refugees really wasn't that cool of an idea after all?

LOL

Beloved Commenter AReasonableMan said...

So your, pathetic, claim is that the industrialists opposed US trade policy for the last forty or more years? Sad!

Drago said...

ARM: "So your, pathetic, claim is that the industrialists opposed US trade policy for the last forty or more years? Sad!"

I don't blame you for running away from your previous points.

Not one bit.

It was an untenable position...and you looked kind of dumb.

Michael K said...

Boy, I'm glad I was off the web for the week. The lefties are getting hysterical.

ARM thinks our industrialization of China is good for the US.

Inga is just spewing crap.

Now, I’m off! My Republican friends are not pretentious assholes like you and I don’t want to be rude and make them wait.

All three of them?

Beloved Commenter AReasonableMan said...

Drago, did or did not the Republican industrialists support US trade policy for the last five decades? (Hint, for the retarded: what do the Kochs say now?)

Drago said...

Remember,
1) Both parties establishments worked together to deliver these deals with their massive imbalance in tariffs and restrictions and national subsidies in favor of our competitors.

2) The left worked hard to lock in impossible to sustain union requirements and abuses and legal barriers to competitiveness.

3) The left (and some establishment republicans) then worked hard to ensure that massive over-regulation and large bureaucracies were in place to sponge off business.

4) The lefties removed massive swaths of land and opportunities for our industries while requiring nothing of foreign competitors making it impossible for our industries to compete.

Lots of blame all around, which is precisely why Trump won.

Birkel said...

ARM,

Trade policy is explicitly the province of Congress, according to the US Constitution.

Article I, Section 8.

It's the first enumerated power of Congress.

Drago said...

ARM: "(Hint, for the retarded: what do the Kochs say now?)"

The Kochs oppose Trump.

I think we know who the...."challenged"...individual in this conversation is.

Drago said...

Birkel: "Trade policy is explicitly the province of Congress, according to the US Constitution.

Article I, Section 8.

It's the first enumerated power of Congress."

Shhhhhh!

The Constitution is very very old....

Drago said...

I have to say I do sort of like this improved self-refuting version of ARM.

Birkel said...

Trump ran against both the Chamber of Commerce (the establishment GOP) and the Democrats.

ARM is arguing against Trump and against the positions that Trump opposed.

ARM is not making sense.

Michael K said...

ARM is so ignorant that he does not know the Kochs are libertarians and want wide open borders.

Just like Immelt and the Google boys and Apple and Microsoft. They all want to force down the wages of tech workers to fatten their profits.

There is nothing wrong with profits but the one sided economy we've had the past 20 years is a form of fascism.

The other term is "crony capitalism"

Beloved Commenter AReasonableMan said...

So you concede that Republican industrialists dominated trade policy for decades. Only morons believe that the Republican politicians were not doing their bidding, as Paul Ryan still is.

Birkel said...

ARM,
If you want to confess your Trump support, please be direct about it.
Trump supports the middle class that had stagnated.
He wants to revitalize the people who have suffered under the uniparty governance.

And here we are.

Gk1 said...

I was thinking if Trump wanted to make the Google boys yelp he only need to reduce HB-1 visas and other barriers to free up employee competition in silicon valley. Didn't Apple get busted for promising Facebook they wouldn't poach talent? I think the DOJ should begin to start investigating Google's hiring practices. If these guys want to pick a political side be prepared for the blow back.

Michael K said...


Blogger Beloved Commenter AReasonableMan said...
So you concede that Republican industrialists dominated trade policy for decades.


No, Republican money managers and hedge funds, plus of course, crony capitalists like Warren Buffet, have been doing very well while manufacturing atrophied.

We just spent a week camped next to a Burlington Northern railroad track. Trains are going by every half hour 24 hours a day. They are heading to Canada and the trains are either tank cars or hopper cars all going to or coming from Canada. Buffet opposed the pipelines since they compete with the BNSF tank trains.

ARM, you sound more and more like a DMV employee.

Anonymous said...

Drago:

Not a single solitary industrialist/manufacturing person amongst them.

Not a single one.

I'm not sure how stupid you have to be to not know this.


Drago. Attend, please. It's hard to put yourself on the weak side of an argument when your opponent is a guy raving about the Koch brothers and implying that the Dems are looking after the working and middle classes, but you're managing to do just that.

It is idiotic to claim that the "industrialists and manufacturers", the "Chamber of Commerce types" for shorthand, those who retain the services of K Street, etc., do not dictate trade policy. You think "trade representatives" come up with these policies all on their own?

These people did not have the trade policies of the last 40 years, that have proved so deleterious to the nation, foisted on them by the the commie-prog statists. They lobbied for China's entry into the WTO, they lobbied for NAFTA, they lobbied for the policies that would allow them to offshore manufacturing to cheaper climes while being able to import to the U.S. market tariff free, they were happy to do business under asymmetric trading rules as long as it remained more profitable to do so than manufacture in the U.S. That other American producers were against this and were getting screwed, or were forced to offshore themselves, doesn't change this. "Political quislings" take their orders from the "Chamber of Commerce types", not the other way 'round.

buwaya said...

The US trade disadvantage began when the US reduced or removed its traditional tariff barriers post-Bretton Woods.
The idea was to offer the US market as a prize to stimulate recovery from WWII or to attract or keep allies during the Cold War, if your country had enough on the ball to make use of it. Access to the US market was the richest bribe available on this planet.
US manufacturers have suffered from this in waves, the earliest ones probably being in the camera/optical industry, effectively smashed flat in the 1950s, followed by consumer electronics, toys, etc.

In the meantime US trade partners were permitted to retain unfair barriers.

None of this is new.

It's been recognized that this position of officially encouraging a trade deficit was long in the tooth and no longer served much purpose. There have been many rounds of attention on this since the 1970's. The problem is that the long period of trade imbalance institutionalized the problem. Once an industry is gone, through import competition or foreign outsourcing, not only are low level jobs gone but very shortly after every sort of higher order technology in that field as the milieu of technologists and their management also disappear. It's not easy to restore an industry when terms of trade improve.

There is no Graflex and Argus or Bell&Howell around to build cameras when Nikon and Canon are priced out.

Browndog said...

Once an industry is gone, through import competition or foreign outsourcing, not only are low level jobs gone but very shortly after every sort of higher order technology in that field as the milieu of technologists and their management also disappear.

This point cannot be overstated.

chickelit said...

Inga said...”Plus you folks should get on your knees (and hands as Guilianni might say, lol) and thank Comey for what he did only days before the election.”

Comey struck Titanic like an iceberg. She sank with great loss of political life. People are still floating around in lifeboats.

Birkel said...

AD-AB,

I do not wish to speak for Drago but I think it is obvious that big government works hand-in-glove with big business to formulate policies that work for the agents but not the principles. The politicians are enriched and the corporate heads are enriched. The people they pretend to represent do poorly.

That is why conservatives argue against centralization and for federalism.

Regulatory capture is definitely a thing.

James Buchanan is under attack by a ridiculous historian because the Leftist Collectivists need to discredit his Noble Prize winning economic theory.

But to say that East Coast/New England Republican corporate heads educated at all the best schools and Coastal elite Leftists also educated at those same schools by the same professors -- to say that they are separated by political labels when they share everything else in common -- Get real!

The Chamber of Commerce and the Leftist Collectivists share more in common than do the rank and file with either group. The rank and file of both parties have much more in common with each other than with party leadership.

If people use rhetorical shortcuts to explicate these points, I think you'd do well to read between the lines.

Beloved Commenter AReasonableMan said...

Angle-Dyne, Angelic Buzzard said...
It's hard to put yourself on the weak side of an argument when your opponent is a guy raving about the Koch brothers


Thank you for your full-throated support.

Michael K said...

"Political quislings" take their orders from the "Chamber of Commerce types", not the other way 'round.

This is the GOPe and is well put.

Lenin said the capitalists would sell them the rope to hang them.

That's what this is.

Ken B said...

Althouse has not paid attention. It means precisely that objectivity does not exist. The emotional misreading is hers.

Michael K said...

There is no Graflex and Argus or Bell&Howell around to build cameras when Nikon and Canon are priced out.

There are people who could fill the niche if it opened.

Seeing Red said...

The Donald is P’Owning everything.

Mr Fixer

This is what happens young’ins when you have a businessman instead of lawyers or bureaucracy heading things.

No new slow normal. Things move no inertia.

That’s why the EU doesn’t like him and they consider him unstable. He’s Asking them work and putting them to shame because they’re stagnant.

chickelit said...

And goggle-face Soros is sorry, even though his horse won.

Browndog said...

The Canadian kid decided to mouth off after Trump left.

Trump handed him his ass, via twitter. Too cute.

Drago said...

Angel-Dyne: "The Chamber of Commerce and the Leftist Collectivists share more in common than do the rank and file with either group. The rank and file of both parties have much more in common with each
other than with party leadership."

I believe you just summed up the entire raison d'etre of the Trump campaign

And if the democrats werent such lemmings they would have risen up in opposition to their leaders and, for better or worse, nominated Bernie.

But in the end, the majority of dem base voters are orders takers.

It should have been Bernie duking it out with Trump as a complete rebuke to the establishment types who have lost all credibility due to their incompetence and feckless leadership.

Seeing Red said...

Do you really think Trudeau is Castro’s son? Supposedly Mom was there and pere wasn’t.

Birkel said...

That was me, Drago.

Seeing Red said...

270% tariff on our milk AND they buy ChiCom steel and stamp it with Made in Canada and sell it here?

Eff them.

Browndog said...

Blogger Seeing Red said...

Do you really think Trudeau is Castro’s son? Supposedly Mom was there and pere wasn’t.


Resemblance of Castro at Trudeau's age is striking. But, it doesn't really matter, does it?

Seeing Red said...

Ross Perot and his giant sucking sound.

Browndog said...

The pictured scene out of the G7 with Trump sitting down is quite remarkable.

The German press released the one with Angela leaning over the table, made to look like she was giving Trump the business.

The Italians released the black and white wide shot, that showed everyone surrounding Trump (the boss) and the Canadian kid in the back of the room like a wall flower.

Now, I see a new one that shows it was Frenchy Macron talking to Trump, and Merkel looks like she was trying to but in.

All the same scene, from different angles.

Michael K said...

I saw a video of Trump's speech and I'd swear he called Trudeau, "Fidel."

I see no comment about it so may be I imagined it.

Browndog said...

Italy just elected an Italian patriot (what liberals call a nationalist) that vows to deport the muslim horde. They have a deep state too--and called for a revote after he won. Very, very similar to what happened in America; this guy wasn't supposed to have a chance to win.

Anyway, Trump likes him:

Just met the new Prime Minister of Italy, @GiuseppeConteIT, a really great guy. He will be honored in Washington, at the @WhiteHouse, shortly. He will do a great job - the people of Italy got it right!

Seeing Red said...

Pere Trudeau bad enough. If Jr is Castro’s son, it’s truth in advertising and the Canadians shouldn’t be surprised if it goes south again. It’s in the genes. 2 failures. I guess they’ll have to learn from history.

Darrell said...

Trump offered to drop all tariffs and subsidies if the rest of the world would do the same. Game over. The liars are left scrambling for words and cover.

Drago said...

Darrell: "Trump offered to drop all tariffs and subsidies if the rest of the world would do the same. Game over."

Same with DACA/dems and the NFL kneelers and buddies.

Seeing Red said...

Sen. Pat Toomey (R-Penn) along with Bob Corker(R)


Corner is retiring and he got booed when he was with a Trump.

Is he on a suicide mission? Who’s he carrying water for?

Browndog said...

The problem is Toomey, not Corker-

What's his deal?

Drago said...

"Now, I see a new one that shows it was Frenchy Macron talking to Trump, and Merkel looks like she was trying to but in."

Trump looks amysed and Abe of Japan is giving Merkel and Macron the "Are you s***ting me?" look.

Both Abe and Trump with their arms crossed.

Clear lines of demarcation now.

Trump/Japan/Italy/Poland/Hungary vs the Iran Gang (Merkel/Macron/assorted little European guys)

Drago said...

Birkel: "That was me, Drago."

Yes. No shame at all being mistaken for Angel-Dyne. On the contrary.

Drago said...

Browndog: "This point cannot be overstated."

Indeed. We lose the entire vertical.

Browndog said...

Trump/Japan/Italy/Poland/Hungary vs the Iran Gang (Merkel/Macron/assorted little European guys)

Nutshell.

Anonymous said...

Birkel: But to say that East Coast/New England Republican corporate heads educated at all the best schools and Coastal elite Leftists also educated at those same schools by the same professors -- to say that they are separated by political labels when they share everything else in common -- Get real!

I did not at any point express disagreement with Drago on the subject of a uniparty. Maybe if you stop knee-jerking you might re-read my comment and figure out what I was disagreeing with. It's a pretty simple point, and not written in any "rhetorical shorthand" requiring any "reading between the lines".

"[B]ig government works hand-in-glove with big business"? No shit, Birkel. That's what ARM was saying (among other things), and I'm sure Drago knows that, too. He was just so eager to disagree with anything ARM said he tripped all over his own shoelaces. You appear to be trying to doing the same here: "Oh yeah, *big business* is culpable, cronyism and regulatory capture and all. But that has nothing to do with *real business*, because blah blah um conservatives federalism blah blah blah."

If people use rhetorical shortcuts to explicate these points, I think you'd do well to read between the lines.

Lol. Thoughtless, sloppy statements that are simply *wrong* are "rhetorical shortcuts". Guess your response here is just a "rhetorical shortcut", too.

Wtf? Are you competing with Inga this evening for the loopy response prize? Just add some copy-pasting, Birk, and the resemblance will be complete.

Drago said...

Angel-Dyne: " He was just so eager to disagree with anything ARM said he tripped all over his own shoelaces."

I would move to velcro...but its imported!

Anonymous said...

BCARM: Thank you for your full-throated support.

At your service, as always.

Inga...Allie Oop said...

“He was just so eager to disagree with anything ARM said he tripped all over his own shoelaces.”

Oh lordie, I have to agree with the Buzzard. Or Drago was just doing his propaganda thing and hoping no one would notice, lol.

Inga...Allie Oop said...

Drago maybe had amnesia and forgot all about a little thing called lobbying, lol!

pacwest said...

Wow. A lot of Canada, France, German, and Great Britain bashing going on here. These are our natural and traditional allies.

Trump will cut a deal with most of them where we gain a couple of percent, while all tarriffs are cut a few percent, thereby increasing the flow of goods, which will facilitate growth for all involved.

What have I got wrong here?

Inga...Allie Oop said...

Wow. A lot of Canada, France, German, and Great Britain bashing going on here. These are our natural and traditional allies.

Natural allies, yes but apparently not in the era of Trump. It’s a brave new world.

Inga...Allie Oop said...

“Italy/Poland/Hungary...”

Italy moving toward far right nationalism, Trump loves them.

Poland right wing populists, Trump loves them.

Hungary, neo fascist government, Trump loves them.

Hmmmm...

Birkel said...

AD-AB,
Try the decaf.

When you re-read what I actually typed, versus what you assumed must have been typed, you might find a different thing entirely.

Inga...Allie Oop said...

“AD-AB,
Try the decaf.

When you re-read what I actually typed, versus what you assumed must have been typed, you might find a different thing entirely.”

Oh but Birkel, the Buzzard couldn’t possibly have misunderstood your meaning!

LOL.

What is the blog coming to when the righties are fighting amongst themselves...

Inga...Allie Oop said...

I blame it on Drago.

pacwest said...

"Natural allies, yes but apparently not in the era of Trump."

How so? President Trump is offering a deal that will help them improve their economies while moving the present imbalances in tarriffs to a more neutral position. Again, what have I got wrong here?

"It’s a brave new world."

Indeed it is. A lot of the tariff structure was set up decades ago. Even NAFTA is getting long in the tooth. Some of the old tariffs (some still in existence) intent was to bring nations economies out of a terrible war fought on their home countries land, or to bring nations out of third world status. Much of it at America's expense. An even larger portion of them are there to economically advantage countries that are trying to game the system. Is your belief that we should keep the status quo? I believe there are imbalances that are harmful for all. As Trump is so fond of pointing out, it's not a zero sum game when played fairly.

Original Mike said...

Ooh, Inga’s back.

What do you want to be the response to the NFL protest, Inga?

Seeing Red said...

Bolton was standing next to Trump in that photo.

narciso said...


Well heres an interesting detail:

https://mobile.twitter.com/RealJoeS1/status/1005417958313742336

Seeing Red said...

Hitler was right of Stalin hence right wing. D’oh!

European right wing is not American right wing.

Free Tommy Robinson!

So until everyone can agree on the baseline definition, you’re talking past everyone Inga.

Original Mike said...

Yeah, Inga doesn’t want any action stemming from the NFL protest. She just wants the protest.

traditionalguy said...

FTR: France is a Traditional ally. But all of the British Empire including its Provinces are not. 54-40 or Fight was a standoff between the King of England and the British Army in Canada over who owned Washington State and most of Oregon. That remained a stand off like the NORK Armistice until the North prevailed in keeping the USA in one piece in 1865. Only after that did the Brits bring home their attack Army that had been set to gobble up coveted parts of a weaked USA.

As for Germany, they are at a high cost, our defeated and occupied enemy who play at ally games but are determined to Unite Europe so they can defeat the USA. They have never been an ally.

Ray - SoCal said...

Trump going Alinsky again!

Triple this time!

- "Whenever possible go outside the expertise of the enemy."
- "Make the enemy live up to its own book of rules."
- "Keep the pressure on."

Trumps tactic is a brilliant way to bypass the traditional roadblocks to GOP outreach to the black community. I remember Romney visiting a black school, met by protesters, and the result was no more black out reach Romney.

Ray - SoCal said...

What’s interesting in this thread is how agreement there is in both the resident MAGA and Left commenters on how US industry was betrayed.

walter said...

Blogger Inga said...Gotta run, I’m having dinner with some Republican friends who say they won’t be voting for Trump again
--
Hope it went well with Chuck

Achilles said...

Beloved Commenter AReasonableMan said...
Canada has a trade deficit with the US. China has a massive surplus. Guess who has received the most sanctions from Trump?

I am sure you know this is untrue.

Unknown said...

With an eidetic memory and spreadsheet in his head, with details for every trading partner and their major companies their interconnecting trading webs and traffic, he must be hell to negotiate with as are Buffett and his Treasury Secretary. They eat numbers. Give a little here and there for this effect over time and we’ve got a win-win. Trudeau's Staff heads are spinning and wishing for a policy as in the old days to slow him down knowing they can't answer their PM’s questions in a year and T knows their status better than they do. And since he insists on the ability to turn on a dime he homes in on a target rather than take only one shot he really does not need a long-term strategy just a target. The CA BOT is 200K pretty good jobs and more in pay increases. He wants those jobs back, could care less about the rest. A paycheck being the best welfare since it pays taxes and gives all back some hope for the future. Trudeau thinks “my Staff is not helping me at all, so I’ll fire them all”. T seems to get along without staff just fine. He swallows hard and asks, “what’s my situation? what should I do”? “I’ll get killed and I know you need me here. “Promote these dummies sideways, present the news this way”. reopen these CA factories buy some more CAT scanners shorten waiting time, you get the credit. I'll take the heat, I'm invincible.

Achilles said...

Trump just proposed actual free trade. No tariffs. No barriers.

Obviously racist.

grackle said...

American voters by 58 percent to 35 percent said the players were not unpatriotic, the Quinnipiac University survey found.

I’ve little faith in polls. The more valid metrics are advertising revenue and loss of viewers, as outlined here:

NFL game telecasts averaged 14.772 million viewers during the first eight weeks of the season, according to Nielsen data obtained by Sporting News. That figure is down 5% from 15.549 million viewers during the first half of the 2016 season and off 18.7% from 18.167 million viewers for the same period in 2015 — before former 49ers quarterback Colin Kaepernick inspired a debate about racial injustice by sitting, then taking a knee, during the national anthem.

Perhaps the NFL viewers have had a sudden change of heart about kneeling but I strongly doubt it.

Achilles said...

Seeing Red said...
Sen. Pat Toomey (R-Penn) along with Bob Corker(R)


Corner is retiring and he got booed when he was with a Trump.

Is he on a suicide mission? Who’s he carrying water for?


Establishment R's are retiring in droves.

They just can't take the humiliation.

Trump is actually representing the same voters they have been stabbing in the back for decades.

They are traitors and everyone knows it.

I think a lot of them are being blackmailed.

Achilles said...

American voters by 58 percent to 35 percent said the players were not unpatriotic, the Quinnipiac University survey found.

Please keep kneeling during the anthem.

Every time a douchebag leftist kneels during the anthem another person supports Trump.

Achilles said...

This is a link to the trade numbers for Canada-US trade.

It only goes back to 1985.

Zero years where Canada ran a trade deficit with the US.

Zero ARM.

But we already knew you were a liar.

Achilles said...

Inga said...
“US manufacturing, in particular, has been run by a bunch of Quislings who sold out to the highest bidder.”

Hear hear!

Trump is going to win 45 states minimum in 2020. Inga can't figure out why.

2018 is going to see the opposite of a blue wave.

And the republicans that win are going to have a lot fewer traitors like Paul Ryan in the ranks.

Inga is too stupid to see what has happened to the republican party.

Keep kneeling. Keep supporting Hamas/Iran/MS-13. Keep trying to repeal the first, second, fourth amendments. Keep supporting open borders. Keep supporting unfair trade deals.

Don't stop. The establishment republicans are right there with you.

All you had to do was be sane.




Oso Negro said...

I am late to this thread, but I must reinforce what Buwaya and Browndog said about manufacturing. I am a chemical engineer, and I have spent my working life in manufacturing, most of that time in management. When a technology moves away from a site, or a region, or a country, there is an attendant diminution of technical competence. It is not like turning the tap on or off. MichaelK, I have the greatest regard for you, but willing people, while a necessary ingredient, are not all the is needed. You need people who know the technology and also people who know how to organize other people to make stuff. The latter are getting more rare in the USA.

An under-discussed analogous situation is the decline of agriculture skill in the USA. While big Ag booms, an incredible amount of formerly tended fields are returning to nature. The rural residents have become reliant on the government and could probably not feed themselves easily if required to do so. The distance food must travel to feed many communities has become very long indeed. If the supply chain is disrupted, things will soon be very ugly.

BUMBLE BEE said...

I worked with a crew that came in from Pittsburgh in the 80's. The devastation caused by the dumping of steel was death to the working class. Fist industry to go was consumer electronics. IIRC, Sony admitted to congress to dumping every product they produced on our markets. They yawned.

Bruce Hayden said...

@Dr K
"We just spent a week camped next to a Burlington Northern railroad track. Trains are going by every half hour 24 hours a day. They are heading to Canada and the trains are either tank cars or hopper cars all going to or coming from Canada. Buffet opposed the pipelines since they compete with the BNSF tank trains."

One of their trains just went by. My guess is that we get BNSF trains maybe one an hour at night, but more at your half hour chedule during the day. Maybe a little less right now because they are doing their annual track maintenance. At the "station" downtown, I noticed maybe a dozen piec s of their weird machinery for working on the tracks. Asked a couple days ago at the sandwich place about the half dozen RVs parked by them, between the highway and tracks, and the manager said that this is an Ann al thing, and they are BNSF employees on BNSF land.

Partner finds the trains running by at night comforting, somehow. I use such to cover the sound of my moving around at night. The farmhouse of her ex's farm, maybe 5 miles downriver, is only maybe 50 feet away from the tracks, and living there in the summers when they were raising their kids is how she got so used to the sound of the trains.

We have one of the two east/west routes running through town here. Running west are lumber, coal, grain, and, interestingly, airplanes. To be more specific, trains with 4-5 off green 737 fuselages without wings or tails, presumably headed to Boeing in Seattle for final assembly. I suspect that the weird containers on some of the other cars contain the wings. Yesterday, a train consisting of their specialized cars was heading east empty. Our house is located by the doubled track, where trains going one way wait for trains going the other way, at least during the day. I would guess there is one sitting there waiting about 75% of the time during the day. Not nearly as much at night. Even on the sidings, you can tell which way the trains are running because they have more engines on the front than back (the east bound trains are entering the mountains, heading towards the continental divide, which is why they tend to run 3+2, but have seen 4+2).

Another BNSF train running by now, I think westbound, which is my signal to wrap this up.

Michael K said...

Another BNSF train running by now, I think westbound, which is my signal to wrap this up.

We are now back in Spokane on the way home but the RV park was next to Lake Cour d'Alene south of Sandpoint and the tracks were about 100 yards away. I swear they were running about every half hour at night.

I got sort of used to them when we lived at the beach in Orange County. The tracks ran right along the beach and we were on the bluff above. They would shake the house but there were only a few a day, maybe seven or eight in 24 hours.

Beloved Commenter AReasonableMan said...

Achilles said...
More angry unhinged lunacy


You should take this up with Executive Office of the President, in your unhinged lunacy you are now calling them liars not me.

You linked only to the trade in goods. Any fool knows this is not the sum total of all trade between the two countries. But you are not any fool, you are a partisan fool, the most foolish of all fools.

Michael K said...

willing people, while a necessary ingredient, are not all the is needed.

Oh, I agree but we must start back somewhere. I see kids joining the military and they will learn skills and discipline.

We need apprenticeships and technical schools. Gender Studies graduates are not going to do it.

My step son is building custom houses in Oregon and his sons are working with him or one is working with his brother-in-law building and restoring Porsches. None has a college degree.

Another brother-in-law builds winery equipment in Oregon and restores 1933 Ford Model As as a hobby. He has about a half dozen.

No college. He began as a diesel mechanic. A friend in Tucson has three sons, two of whom are engineers.

If Trump can get the economy going again, and he seems to be doing it, opportunities will open up and the demand for skills will encourage kids to learn them.

My nephew dropped out of college about ten years ago, joined the Marine Corps as an aviation mechanic, finished his enlistment and went back and finished college. He then did an apprenticeship with the elevator repair union, whatever it's called.

It can be done but a lot of work has been neglected for Gender Studies and leftist imitations of Humanities.

Michael K said...

Any fool knows this is not the sum total of all trade between the two countries.

And you know it well. Enlighten us.

How about it ? What makes up the other "sum total?"

Beloved Commenter AReasonableMan said...

Michael K said...
What makes up the other "sum total?"


It is hard to credit that a grown man is asking this question.

Here's a clue, how do you measure GDP?

Beloved Commenter AReasonableMan said...

Here is what is so disgusting about a commenter like Achilles. He comes in here and calls people discussing things in good faith liars, even when he has his own facts wrong. But, why not credit the other side with the possibility that they have their facts wrong and instead of calling them liars make a rational argument to show them their mistake. No one has full command of all the facts. This is the point of debate.

It is losers like Achilles that shut down debate on sites like this. By calling everyone they disagree with liars they are trying to stifle debate. Everyone should despise this tactic, not just those of the other side of the debate - everyone should despise these tactics.

chickelit said...

Shit stain post at 9:26.

Michael K said...

"Here's a clue, how do you measure GDP?"

Tell us, o learned one. How does GDP and trade policy work ?

You are so brilliant, throwing out these crumbs for us proles.

By calling everyone they disagree with liars they are trying to stifle debate.

I did not notice you correcting his links on US Canada trade, though. Care to do so or is this just more bullshit?

Beloved Commenter AReasonableMan said...

chickelit said...
Shit stain post at 9:26.


This is a cowards post. Instead of stand up for principles that you claim to believe in you retreat into partisanship and attack the 'other'.

Beloved Commenter AReasonableMan said...

Michael K said...
Care to do so or is this


I did do this, if you had bothered to listen to the argument. I linked to the president's own numbers on the actual trade deficit, which measures goods and services.

chickelit said...

@ARM: Hey, you invented the “shit stain” response a couple weeks ago you coward.

BTW, the report you linked at 8:54 makes it clear that you and Achilles are arguing about ways to count beans. It also makes perfectly clear what cheating assholes the Canadians are with their reimportation policies.

Beloved Commenter AReasonableMan said...

chickelit said...
the report you linked at 8:54 makes it clear that you and Achilles are arguing about ways to count beans.


No. There is only one way to measure a trade deficit - the sum of goods and services traded.

You could say there is a deficit in goods or a deficit in services but the term 'trade deficit' self-evidently applies to the sum of trade between two countries.

And, your post was unquestionably cowardly. It was your poor attempt to be a 'team player' rather than deal with the issues objectively. To stifle debate rather than support it.

chickelit said...

“A Reasonable Man” is like a character invented by Althouse to police her comments sections. It matters not what the topic is. Even his moniker is bad pun on the fictional arbiter used in writing legal briefs.

chickelit said...

I’ll leave to others to read ARM’s link and to explain to zer what Canada’s reimportations policies mean. Ze is too emotionally invested in it to be reasonable. In any case, Canada deserves to be slapped down—hard. That’s what Trump is doing.

Michael K said...

Canada lives off us but at least they could be polite about it. They are inviting serious Muslim problems.

ARM is a general purpose troll. I used to think he was a sincere leftist but he has deteriorated into a nasty troll.

We could use a lefty who could argue and point out facts. I'm sure there are some.

I used to have some interesting debates at Washington Monthly when Kevin Drum was blogging there. That ended in 2004 where they all went ARM-like and even Ritmo-like with obscene and nasty replies to reasonable comments. I think that is when Bush Derangement got really malignant. It began in 2001 when the left lost that very close election.

I blame the near tie on Rove who advised Bush to hide the drunk driving story. Then 9/11 interrupted the theme.

Kerry was just an amazing candidate, with his history of treason. It was as if the Democrats nominated Robert E Lee.

Michael K said...

The US did run a goods deficit of $12.1 billion, but it made up for it with a $24.6 billion surplus in services trade, such as intellectual property and travel.

I think this is what ARM must be talking about.

US Tourism is the "services" that evens things out.

Chuck said...

Perhaps try The Obama Test here. (One application is like that test we all apply to the mainstream news media; if a Republican had done or said an equivalent thing, how would the media react to it and report it?)

In this case, The Obama Test goes like, “If Obama had reacted the the NFL protests by suggesting that the kneeling players come up with names of people who the justice system has failed, to be considered for pardons, what would Limbaugh, Hannity and the rest of TrumpWorld say?

Bruce Hayden said...

"We are now back in Spokane on the way home but the RV park was next to Lake Cour d'Alene south of Sandpoint and the tracks were about 100 yards away. I swear they were running about every half hour at night."

The tracks from both of the BNSF east/west routes across MT merge in Sandpoint. One route swings below Glacier, then follows US 2 through Libby to SP. The other follows I90 to Missoula, the the Clark Fork river that flows into the Pend O'Rielle by Sandpoint. We are 20 miles from ID, and by that route, maybe 90 miles to Coeur D'Alene. Next weekend, will pop through there to pick up my kid from the Spokane airport for Father's Day (their last chance for awhile, since they are finally starting a real job next month, after finally finishing grad school). Probably spend the night before somewhere between CdA and the airport, to make the trip easier for my partner. We do almost all of our flying through Spokane because they have SWA there (with nonstops to/from PHX and DEN).

Probably too late for you today, but we spend a couple nights a summer in CdA every year celebrating my partner's birthday. Sunday brunch at Dockside at the CdA resort is always great. One of the best we have run into outside Vegas. Great view of the lake. If you ever make it, try the brown sugar bacon. They also have everything Huckleberry: Huckleberry mimosas; Huckleberry frappés; etc. and Beverly's at the CdA is a highly rated Classic restaraunt. A little steep, but not as bad as Michael's in Vegas where we did Valentine's Day. They have several other very good restaurants in CdA too.

Michael K said...

Sunday brunch at Dockside at the CdA resort is always great. One of the best we have run into outside Vegas. Great view of the lake.

Been there many times. When I first came up here, in 1959, that resort was not yet built. It has done a lot for the area which has grown enormously. I went into the WA Air National Guard back then and spent a lot of time at Hayden Lake, which was the big resort then. Bing Crosby had a house there and his son Gary was the toughest kid in northern Idaho. He used to hang out at a small shopping area and fight any kid who wanted to challenge him.

Phil Harris had a house there. It was a big summer resort for the Los Angeles crowd. Now its CDA.

The guy who owns the RV park where we stayed lives in Oro Valley, right around the corner from us in Tucson. He said that lots of people are now going up to Sand Point because CDA is too crowded and expensive.

Michael K said...

Oh, I just noticed I should have said Lake Pend Oreille, not CDA.

Jim at said...

”Plus you folks should get on your knees (and hands as Guilianni might say, lol) and thank Comey for what he did only days before the election.” - Inga

Nope. I thank people like you who threw away your vote on a third-party candidate in a swing state.

Greg P said...

Chuck writes:

Perhaps try The Obama Test here. (One application is like that test we all apply to the mainstream news media; if a Republican had done or said an equivalent thing, how would the media react to it and report it?)

In this case, The Obama Test goes like, “If Obama had reacted the the NFL protests by suggesting that the kneeling players come up with names of people who the justice system has failed, to be considered for pardons, what would Limbaugh, Hannity and the rest of TrumpWorld say?


Well, if "the police acted stupidly" Obama had said it, I wouldn't trust him to pardon appropriately

With Trump, I think:
1: He's putting the jerks on the spot, because what they could come up with are a lot of violent criminals that no non-criminals will have any sympathy for

2: I don't particularly trust him, either, when it comes to who he pardons

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