June 9, 2018

"President Donald Trump said he wants to meet with NFL players and other athletes who kneel during the National Anthem so they can recommend people they think should be pardoned due to unfair treatment by the justice system."

"In what he seemingly sees a solution, President Donald Trump said he wants NFL players and other athletes who kneeled during the National Anthem," CNN report-opines.

"Seemingly sees"... I'm enjoying that confusion. What Trump is doing here is using lateral thinking. You don't go directly for a solution. You take a different angle. This is the stable genius par excellence.

Here's the Wikipedia entry for "lateral thinking":
Lateral thinking is solving problems through an indirect and creative approach, using reasoning that is not immediately obvious and involving ideas that may not be obtainable by using only traditional step-by-step logic. The term was promulgated in 1967 by Edward de Bono. He cites as an example the Judgment of Solomon, where King Solomon resolves a dispute over the parentage of a child by calling for the child to be cut in half, and making his judgment according to the reactions that this order receives....

To understand lateral thinking, it is necessary to compare lateral thinking and critical thinking. Critical thinking is primarily concerned with judging the true value of statements and seeking errors. Lateral thinking is more concerned with the "movement value" of statements and ideas. A person uses lateral thinking to move from one known idea to creating new ideas....
It's possible that lateral thinking could be especially appealing to black people, at least that's what occurs to me after reading this piece by Katherine Timpf in National Review about a college course that teaches that supposedly teaches that "objectivity" is a "white mythology." The course — according to its official description — looks at "systematic logics that position ‘the West’ and ‘whiteness’ as the ideal manifest through such social constructions as objectivity, meritocracy, and race." The National Review calls that "crazy."

I'd say it's objectively true that some people think that stressing "objectivity" is a power move associated with white males. How do you reach people who feel like that? If you think the answer is by continuing to pressure them in the way that feels white-privileged, then you have lost touch with the real world of human beings.

Timpf writes:
The idea that objectivity is somehow a myth, or that it has anything even remotely to do with “whiteness,” is so absolutely stupid that I feel like I don’t even have to spend time explaining why. 
Well, ironically, that's an emotional reaction to a misreading of a text. The course description doesn't really mean that objectivity is a myth, but that people in power use claims of their own objectivity to solidify and extend their power. I'd say that's so obvious that I feel like I don’t even have to spend time explaining why. Timpf goes on to snark that "water is objectively wet," which must feel comfortable and cleansing but says little about how the human mind works and how some human beings gain and keep power over others.

AND: At Debate.org (whatever that is) the question "Is water wet?" is polling at 49% "yes" and 51% "no." "No" might be winning because it's more interesting, but check out some of the arguments! For example:
Water isn’t wet Wet is what you would use to describe the feeling of water, not what it is. Things become wet after it’s been “touched” by water not while it is being “touched”. Water makes things wet but it is not wet itself. I get when you say “water is wet” but your not stating something, you’re just describing water.
And:
Just going to give you words from a scientist's pen. Back in the old days, when water was where we needed to spend our time, touch was a lot more important than it is now. We as beings had to be immediately aware if we were going in or out of water. Therefore, the feeling of wet is a primal sensory reminder.

However, thereafter once we ascended onto the land and trees, the feeling of wet became a sensory reminder of something out of the ordinary; it is raining - get shelter, you fell in a creek - start swimming.

The reason it feels as it feels when water touches the skin is actually a complex electro-chemical reaction which works at amazing speeds. The sensory inputs are a combination of:

1. Your body's pH at that moment
2. The water's pH
3. Your body's temperature at that moment
4. The water's temperature
5. The atmospheric pressure
6. Molecular polarity
This makes me think about the famous David Foster Wallace essay, "This is Water," which begins:
There are these two young fish swimming along, and they happen to meet an older fish swimming the other way, who nods at them and says, “Morning, boys, how's the water?” And the two young fish swim on for a bit, and then eventually one of them looks over at the other and goes, “What the hell is water?”
I'm thinking of other dialogue for Wallace's fish, like:
"You know how you feel wet?"

"Wet?! What are you talking about? I feel... the same... all the time!"

366 comments:

1 – 200 of 366   Newer›   Newest»
Fernandinande said...

The Science is settled: "white mythology" is a black mythology.

Michael K said...

The Enlightenment is trembling and could still fall. We see how well Muslim societies function without it.

Sebastian said...

"Timpf writes: The idea that objectivity is somehow a myth, or that it has anything even remotely to do with “whiteness,” is so absolutely stupid that I feel like I don’t even have to spend time explaining why." Well, ironically, that's an emotional reaction to a misreading of a text."

Well, ironically, that's an emotional misreading of what we white males would call a statement of fact, apart from what she "feels like."

"The course description doesn't really mean that objectivity is a myth, but that that people in power use claims of their own objectivity to solidify and extend their power."

"but"? You mean, unlike other myths?

"Timpf goes on to snark that "water is objectively wet," which must feel comfortable and cleansing but says little about how the human mind works and how some human beings gain and keep power over others."

Quite right. BS about objectivity being a tool of white male supremacy is indeed a prog power move.

Eleanor said...

What Trump has proposed seems perfectly reasonable to me. If you think there are people who have been incarcerated unfairly, tell me who they are. If we do some research and come to agree with you, we'll fix it. It's a put up or shut moment for the players. But I'm betting the players will move the goal posts to a different issue because it's protesting they are about. Not fixing problems. They don't have any idea what life would be like if they gave up their victimhood.

mccullough said...

This should be good. Most of the crimes committed are at the state level. Trump will be passing along requests to the governors, who want no part of this.

Trump can’t pardon guys for not paying child support or beating up their gurlfriends. So this will fizzle quickly.

wwww said...


Trump hates the NFL. He loves this fight. He'll be talking about this at rallies for years.


Michael K said...

But I'm betting the players will move the goal posts to a different issue because it's protesting they are about. Not fixing problems.

Yup. They have no idea. Maybe if they had gone to class in those college years instead of staying in the weight room.

Original Mike said...

”What Trump is doing here is using lateral thinking.”

What Trump is doing is telling them to put up or shut up.

Fernandinande said...

"historically, white supremacy has venerated the idea of objectivity ... as a means of silencing oppressed peoples."

I'm going to give this "objectivity" a shot the next time some oppressed peoples have their stereo up too loud.

stonethrower said...

Ann, as usual you are great, provoking, and poetic as the same time. So much there, but I must simply say that when I read your posts, my brained is often "neatened up." Cleansed.

Drago said...

Trump essentially says to the protesting athletes: oh, you claim African Americans are being oppressed? Then give me explicit and specific examples of African Americans currently incarcerated that shouldnt be....

So now we have the ball in the protestors court who now have to get specific and thus we will see what their actual standards happen to be.

If they come up with nothing thats going to raise some eyebrows and expose them, precisely as Trump exposed LLR Chucks hero Dick Durbin on immigration.

LLR Chuck is STILL whining about how Trump embarrassed his little dem buddy.

Gahrie said...

Timpf goes on to snark that "water is objectively wet," which must feel comfortable and cleansing but says little about how the human mind works and how some human beings gain and keep power over others.

Althouse has to defend the pernicious idea that White people oppress Black people through objectivity because feminism says that men oppress women the same way.

Ann Althouse said...

""but"? You mean, unlike other myths?"

Absolutely not. It's a generic thing to say about the myths that prevail in the dominant group.

Ann Althouse said...

"Quite right. BS about objectivity being a tool of white male supremacy is indeed a prog power move."

Great point. I encourage that kind of argument. Much more sophisticated that the resort to "water is wet."

Ann Althouse said...

"Ann, as usual you are great, provoking, and poetic as the same time. So much there, but I must simply say that when I read your posts, my brained is often "neatened up." Cleansed."

Thanks!

Didn't even have to use wet water!

rhhardin said...

Objectivity points to getting the observer out of the dynamic picture. No longer a moving part.

Subjectivity points to getting the observer into the dynamic picture. The only moving part.

That's not white vs black.

The habit of objectivity is social. If you're wrong a lot, subjectivity might be your best move.

Original Mike said...

”I'd say it's objectively true that some people think that stressing "objectivity" is a power move associated with white males. How do you reach people who feel like that?”

You hand them a $10 bill and watch their eyes light up.

rhhardin said...

Subjectivity urges direct action. Objectivity looks at perverse consequences.

Power move against direct action.

Jupiter said...

"Students will explore how systematic logics that position “the West” and “whiteness” as the ideal manifest through such social constructions as objectivity, meritocracy, and race, and as justifications for colonial interventions,
slavery, and the subordination of women."

Sounds to me like they are saying that objectivity, meritocracy, and race are social constructions. Which means, notions. Fabrications. Myths. But that's just one old, white man's opinion.

rhhardin said...

On the other hand, larger picture, objectivity is only possible with social relations stabilizing it.

Rule of law, ethics. All that white stuff.

So the power move goes the other way. Objectivity is a result, not a cause.

Tommy Duncan said...

In the past the white and privileged class used the term "brain storming" to describe lateral thinking. When traditional planning sessions bogged down we'd use the "fresh sheet of paper" approach and try to approach our problems from a different angle, seeking new ideas and solutions.

Trump is just a traditional business man.

Dan in Philly said...

I was quite surprised that the Eagles players didn't use the WH invitation to have a dialogue with Trump rather than using it as a platform for objecting to him. He won't allow that. So he's coopting their objections and inviting them to dialogue. The balls in their court and the moral authority is with him.
The mans a genius.

Derek Kite said...

He wants blacks to support him. Not at the cost of a functioning and safe society. Two things reply affect these communities. Lack of economic opportunity, and extremely high incarceration rates. I'm certain the are a few young men who were railroaded by the plea bargain system.


Obama led to shooting cops. Trump can lead to redress of injustices.

And this is a direct poke in the eye of the powerful people in Washington. There are many who have professed interest for the poor and downtrodden to gain power. Then there is one who gains power to do good for the poor and downtrodden.

Browndog said...

After Kanya went full MAGA on twitter, Jay-Z issued a fatwa to all rappers that may foolishly believe they too can leave the plantation.

Lucien said...

Ready for a t-shirt that says:

“The great thing about science is that it’s true whether it was discovered by a cis-gendered straight white European male or not.”

Bay Area Guy said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Gahrie said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Paco Wové said...

"it's objectively true that some people think"

That's an example of what's known on Wikipedia as "weasel words". "Some people"? Who? Citation needed!

Bay Area Guy said...

Trump should pardon all the wife-beaters and drug users in NFL.

(Pause)

One giant blanket pardon should suffice:)

Gahrie said...

but that people in power use claims of their own objectivity to solidify and extend their power.

When?

Was it when White people fought a war to free Black people?
Was it when White people passed Constitutional amendments to protect the rights of Black people?
Was it when White people passed civil rights laws to protect and extend the rights of Black people?
Was it when White people marched in the civil rights movement or died fighting against Jim Crow?
Was it when White people passed Affirmative Action to discriminate against White men in favor of Black people?

I am confused. Could someone provide an example of White people using objectivity to oppress Black people? Bonus points if you can come up with one that men use to oppress women.

If objectivity is a tool used to oppress minorities, then what are we left to replace it with?

Paco Wové said...

"Could someone provide an example of White people using objectivity to oppress Black people? Bonus points if you can come up with one that men use to oppress women."

IQ testing.

Michael K said...

I'm certain the are a few young men who were railroaded by the plea bargain system.

Plus General Flynn, of course.

The whole plea bargain system is corrupt.

Gahrie said...

"Could someone provide an example of White people using objectivity to oppress Black people? Bonus points if you can come up with one that men use to oppress women."

IQ testing.


How does IQ testing oppress Black people? Most White people are too scared to even mention IQ let alone use it to oppress anyone.

Gahrie said...

The attack on objectivity is a thinly veiled attack on truth, and truth must be attacked because of unpleasant facts that people refuse to acknowledge.

Browndog said...

wwww said...


Trump hates the NFL


Another mind reader that knows how Trump really feels.

rhhardin said...

Photo-flo makes water wetter. You can add it to a fountain and sink the ducks.

bagoh20 said...

Completely backwards and confused, as is common of the university mind.

Trump was being objective and direct. If you think the justice system is treating some people badly, then lets undo that where we see it and agree on it, period. The kneeling and all the other bullshit is the unobjective, emotional, distraction which fixes nothing and saves no one, becuase that's not even it's motivation. In short, it fails at helping anyone or anything. The kind of leadership that Trump exhibited by that suggestion is simple objectivity and directness, and if you need to call it "whiteness", then "whiteness" is good.

Trump was saying: "stop posing and lets do something real." I think that kind of leadership is attracting Blacks to him like no common politician can, even from a biracial one posing as black.

What althouse is doing here is what academia is obsessed with: always trying to look at things from a different point of view for the sole purpose of having something to say, even if that point of view requires turning out the light.

Balfegor said...

Ironically, in current discourse, the people making the most impassioned claims of ah, dispassionate objectivity are anti-Trump journalists, no? And Trump himself doesn't seem to care about the "objective" truth value as such of his utterances. They're moves in a postmodern language-game he is playing, in which accuracy is only one of many salient aspects of a given speech act. Meanwhile, journalists' protestations of objectivity are constantly undermined by their huge and obvious emotional investment in opposing Trump.

bagoh20 said...

The common understanding of "wetness' is having substantial water in or on it. Therefore, water is not water if it's not wet, and it cannot be un-wet. Duh.

victoria said...

He flipped the whole thing around, making himself blameless and making the players responsible. Clever, clever.

Bagoh, he is never objective or direct. the grand obfuscator.


Vicki from Pasadena

Beloved Commenter AReasonableMan said...

Trump's strategy here is pretty transparent. Spray a lot of pardons around to conceal the pardons that really matter. A lot of bad murder mysteries have had the same plot.

mccullough said...

The difficulty for Grievance Studies is that they really know nothing about East Asia. China, Korea, Japan. These are not multi-racial societies. They did not have black slaves. Thry did not have colonies in Africa or India. They did not conquer the indigenous people in the Americas like the the Spanish and English.

China and Japan are the second and third biggest economies in the world. They want no immigration into their countries. They don’t even want white peoole, much less Africans or Latinos. They are the superior races in their minds. And when you look at how fucking dumb white oriole in Europe, Canada, and the US are, you have to say, objectively speaking, they are right. They are superior.

Drago said...

vickie from Pasadena: "Bagoh, he is never objective or direct. the grand obfuscator."

Just this morning talking heads were on TV complaining about how direct Trump is in these negotiations and public pronouncements.

vickie from Pasadena wrong again.

Anyone surprised?

Beloved Commenter AReasonableMan said...

Trump's strategy here is pretty transparent. Spray a lot of pardons around to conceal the pardons that really matter. A lot of bad murder mysteries have had the same plot.

Drago said...

ARM: "Trump's strategy here is pretty transparent. Spray a lot of pardons around to conceal the pardons that really matter."

"conceal the pardons"

LOL

A brand new conspiracy!! Just in time too. The old conspiracies were getting.....old....

chickelit said...

The players will balk because they dont want dialog with the White House. The Eagles already showed this. The players want to hang onto myths like “hands up don’t shoot”

Left Bank of the Charles said...

Trump is inviting people who don't want to come to his White House, and dangling the carrot of pardons to make it hard for them to say no.

But what if they present him with a list of people killed by the police who were never convicted of a crime. What would it mean for Trump to pardon them?

What if their list includes Colin Kaepernick? Could Trump pardon him so that he can get a quarterback job in the NFL.

Drago said...

LBOTC: "But what if they present him with a list of people killed by the police who were never convicted of a crime. What would it mean for Trump to pardon them?
What if their list includes Colin Kaepernick?"

Colin Kaepernick was killed by police even though he was never convicted of a crime?

Life (and death) comes at you fast....

Quayle said...

Some people spend all their time writing and discussing whether water is wet, and what are the intellectual ramifications of such questions and issues. Other people notice that there’s somebody in the water near by them, that is drowning, and they risk all to try to save them. There’s an objective truth and logic in both worlds. The question is which world do you live in?

Bad Lieutenant said...

I'm thinking of other dialogue for Wallace's fish, like


Maybe that's why he offed himself.

Yancey Ward said...

This is called "put up or shut up". Is that lateral thinking?

bagoh20 said...

The truth is not always kind or convenient. That's the problem some people have with objectivity. There are not really competing truths in our normal universe, just competing sets of facts that only compete becuase they are incomplete and alloyed with lies or misconceptions. Though it may be useful to our feelings and relationships on occasion, refusing to filter out the untruths is the cause of most human tragedy.

Yancey Ward said...

I see Eleanor and Original Mike saw that, too.

mccullough said...

70% of NFL players are black. The best player in the league is a 40 year old white guy. The second best player in the league is a 39 year old white guy.

The NFL’s biggest problem is that the style of play requires an elite QB and there just aren’t many. A guy like Cam Newton can have an MVP season, and then he drops off again. Teams need a good, consistent QB who doesn’t get hurt much.

Brady and Brees. The elite. Still the best in old age. The NFL isn’t watchable because of the style of play. If Kaepernick could play, he wouldn’t have had to take a knee. Kurt Warner worked with him. But Kaep isn’t good enough. No shame. Most aren’t. Brady and Brees. Then you have Roethlisberger and Rodgers. 4 guys over the last decade who are consistently great at QB.

The NFL ended up with an anthem controversy because the style of play ruined the game.

n.n said...

Internally, externally, and mutually consistent is a measure of objectivity. Selective, opportunistic, and congruent is democratic, dictatorial, imperial privilege.

mandrewa said...

It isn't just allegedly black people that attack objectivity; it's also a significant part of the left. The story that objectivity as a goal is wrong is part of post-modernism. And this the same ideology that dominates the universities. And that means the whole narrative that this is coming from black people should be regarded with a great deal of suspicion. Maybe black people do on average distrust objectivity, but that's kind of incidental, because the most influential people pushing this idea are found at the universities and they are mostly white.

It is hugely important to distinguish between criticizing the ideal of objectivity versus the practice. People are often hypocritical and it's not hard to find people that claim to be objective who are anything but. Of course if your goal is to criticize a hypocritical claim to be objective, then depending on your audience, objectivity is essential to achieving that.

Post-modernism criticizes the ideal of objectivity.

Now my theory would be that this is all part of tribalism. Tribalism is, I believe, a deep-seated evolutionary adaptation that seems to be felt more strongly by some people than others. Although everyone experiences a pull towards tribalism to some extent. Typically what the tribe wants to do is to kill others for not being part of the tribe. Coming up with a rationale for killing others is much more difficult if you are taught to strive for objectivity. Thus objectivity is the enemy of tribalism. And thus for many on the left, objectivity is something to be disparaged.

Quayle said...

“The truth is not always kind or convenient....”

Is the value and desirability of mercy not “a truth?”

When is that truth not kind?

(I already know when that truth is not convenient, which is almost all of the time for almost all of us.)

bagoh20 said...

Blogger victoria said...
"He flipped the whole thing around, making himself blameless and making the players responsible. Clever, clever.

Bagoh, he is never objective or direct. the grand obfuscator."


He is blameless for Blacks being unfairly treated. He never arrested or shot anybody, nor ordered police to do so. What he is doing is suggesting that something real be done, rather than continuing to fight about who's fault it is. Of course fixing something would take all the juice out of being mad and drawing endless attention. And you know what? He will get them to finally make a difference where they were doing only damage before. If they refuse, that's 100% on them, and shows their real motivation.

Wince said...

Democrats fear: Orange is the new black?

Trump is separating the sincere from the trendy, which I've read at 15% of the black vote is a death knell for Democrats.

Separately, Althouse nails it.

Well, ironically, [Timpf's is] an emotional reaction to a misreading of a text. The course description doesn't really mean that objectivity is a myth, but that people in power use claims of their own objectivity to solidify and extend their power. I'd say that's so obvious that I feel like I don’t even have to spend time explaining why.

If there's a problem with the course, like so many others, it is the refusal to recognize the increasing dominance of the leftist narrative being used to serve the people in power.

Trump with his lateral thinking is side-stepping both sides of this traditional argument to reach a new synthesis.

Mrs. X said...

“Objectivity is a white construct” is just repackaged cultural relativism. Lather, rinse, repeat.

bagoh20 said...

"Is the value and desirability of mercy not “a truth?”

Of course, but it is not without cost, and sometimes what looks like mercy is far from it. Some would say euthanizing the handicapped is mercy.

mandrewa said...

Objectivity and lateral thinking are not opposites. They are just different things.

Step-by-step logical thinking is not the same as objectivity.

If you're doing science the key ideas often come from lateral thinking, or intuitive thinking, or from origins that are often difficult to articulate.

You then use step-by-step logical thinking to test the validity of your hypotheses.

So a scientist needs to be very good at step-by-step logical thinking and at pursuing objectivity, and if he or she doesn't have both of these skills it's pretty much hopeless.

But a scientist is unlikely to accomplish anything of real significance if he or she is not also good at lateral thinking or the ability to find non-logical inspiration somehow, somewhere.

Browndog said...

Brady and Brees. The elite. Still the best in old age. The NFL isn’t watchable because of the style of play. If Kaepernick could play, he wouldn’t have had to take a knee. Kurt Warner worked with him. But Kaep isn’t good enough. No shame. Most aren’t. Brady and Brees. Then you have Roethlisberger and Rodgers. 4 guys over the last decade who are consistently great at QB.

Phillip Rivers....the forgotten man.

Ann Althouse said...

“The common understanding of "wetness' is having substantial water in or on it. Therefore, water is not water if it's not wet, and it cannot be un-wet. Duh.”

Well, duh yourself. You just made the argument that water isn’t wet. How can water have water in it or on it. It IS water. If put water on water, you’re not making water wet, you’re just getting more water in one place. Dip your hand in it and it is your hand that will be wet. The water is the wetting agent.

Ann Althouse said...

It may depend on what the meaning of is is.

bagoh20 said...

Although Whites are responsible for far less than half the violent crime, they are shot by police twice as often as Blacks.

Clue: it's not about truth, objectivity, or the victims.

Anonymous said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Rick said...

The course description doesn't really mean that objectivity is a myth, but that people in power use claims of their own objectivity to solidify and extend their power.

You're characterizing this as the class accepting the principle of objectivity while noting the limits of its applicability. If this were true criticism would necessarily include someone's objectivity is false rather than criticizing the principle of objectivity itself. This is manifestly not what happens.

So it seems obvious your belief this is the true intent of the criticism is driven more by your wish this was true than whether it is in fact true.

Anonymous said...

"I'd say it's objectively true that some people think that stressing "objectivity" is a power move associated with white males. How do you reach people who feel like that? If you think the answer is by continuing to pressure them in the way that feels white-privileged, then you have lost touch with the real world of human beings."

So what is your lateral-thinking way of "reaching" people who think that invoking "objectivity" is a white male power move?

That requires thinking about the different motives/thought processes of the people making this claim. The problem is, I don't think many (or any) of the players making such claims are being honest, or - among the ones who aren't just playing a power game themselves - have anything interesting to say about the nature of human subjectivity.

That human subjectivity *is* an interesting field of inquiry, abundant food for serious thought, doesn't mean that any SJW academic's claims about white males and objectivity are likely to be anything but duckspeak. What do you think the odds are that this course is anything but warmed-over, dumbed down reiteration of tired, decades-old, post-whatever "interrogations"? To which students will be expected to assent uncritically, because otherwise...white male power moves!

So in this context complaining that some banal, knee-jerk comments from a journalist "[say] little about how the human mind works and how some human beings gain and keep power over others" is just so much hand-waving. If I had to bet, I wouldn't put any money on such a college course having anything less banal to say about the subject than Timpf.

Drago said...

Lefty NFL-ers: We have complaints!

Trump: Ok, lets hear 'em...

Lefty NFL-ers and vickie from pasadena: No Fair!...

LOL

bagoh20 said...

"The water is the wetting agent."

Now you're getting it. Duh.

The only reason you can't make water wetter is because it's 100% wet already.

Is Althouse Althousian?

Limited blogger said...

Lateral thinking is what the Packers had with their 'power sweep'

mccullough said...

Rivers is solid, just as Romo was. But like Romo he couldn’t win even with good talent around him. Second tier. Good enough to keep his team competitive unlike most QBs. But forgettable

Inga...Allie Oop said...

Trump is dangling a bribe in front of them to get them to abandon their protests over the police associated abuses toward people of color. I suspect they know what he’s doing and very few will take him up on his offer. Free speech and the issue of police shooting black people indiscriminately might be more important to them than taking a bribe offered by Trump. It’s insulting and disingenuous to the max. No one should be fooled.

Francisco D said...

It was not that long ago that priests were generally the only ones who could read. Common people had to take their word about what was in the Bible. They could not question the priests because they could not read the text.

Post Modernists in seeking to destroy objectivity hope to become 21st Century priests to whom the ignorant, objectivist masses come for true knowledge.

Anonymous said...

Drago:

vickie from Pasadena wrong again.

Anyone surprised?


Most people don't think of fly-by pigeon-droppings in terms of rightness or wrongness.

bagoh20 said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Wince said...

Ann Althouse said...
“The common understanding of "wetness' is having substantial water in or on it. Therefore, water is not water if it's not wet, and it cannot be un-wet. Duh.”

Doesn't anybody remember? Johnny Carson used to have a recurring sketch called...

The Edge of Wetness

Inga...Allie Oop said...

Apparently Trump can make most people commenting on this thread believe water isn’t wet.

rhhardin said...

Subjective view: objective people wish blacks ill, subjective people wish blacks well.

That's a power play.

tcrosse said...

"Wetting agent, also called surfactant, chemical substance that increases the spreading and penetrating properties of a liquid by lowering its surface tension—that is, the tendency of its molecules to adhere to each other. See detergent; surfactant."
-Britannica

rhhardin said...

Post Modernists in seeking to destroy objectivity hope to become 21st Century priests to whom the ignorant, objectivist masses come for true knowledge.

Academic postmodernists hate the systems they analyze; ordinary postmodernists like the systems they analyze.

The former are after power, the latter are after surprise.

tcrosse said...

Inga seems to think it's better to curse the darkeness than to light one little candle.

rhhardin said...

If everybody in the world lit just one little candle, somebody would probably light two. - Roger Price

rhhardin said...

The basis of objectivity is not objective but social.

Nevertheless it's objectivity.

rhhardin said...

"Objectivity is a power play" claims to be objective even while forwarding subjectivity as better.

rhhardin said...

In objectivity, light leaves the object and enters the eye.

In subjectivity, light leaves the eye and enters the object. The Greek theory of sight. It explains neatly, also, why, if you put your hand in the way, you see your hand instead.

rhhardin said...

Objectivity: you can detect the breasts even of a woman with very tiny breasts if she's wearing a white tee-shirt far away, from shading alone.

rhhardin said...

Light leaving the eye and entering the object, subjectivity theory, is the male gaze.

Fernandinande said...

"Wetting agent,... detergent; surfactant."

Detergent is a white mythology.

The University of Michigan’s “Diversity staff” comprises nearly 100 full-time employees, with a budget over $11 milliion
One guy is so diverse that he's paid $396K per year.

Transgender athletes sweep races
"...one of whom, at least, apparently hadn’t begun to transition either physically or hormonally."

rhhardin said...

A 50yo male has the same aerobic capacity as a 25yo woman. Just require trans athletes to be over 50.

rhhardin said...

The Bobby Riggs effect.

n.n said...

Water is wet. It is liquid.

Water can be watered through addition of water.

It is sex politics, not gender politics, where the former refers to male and female, and the latter refers to masculine and feminine attributes (e.g. sexual orientation).

It is racism, sexism, etc., or diversity politics, where the individual is subordinated to their color, sex, etc.

Drago said...

Angel-Dyne: "Most people don't think of fly-by pigeon-droppings in terms of rightness or wrongness."

Depends on whether or not you are driving a convertible.

Drago said...

Inga: "...."(something or other)

Lateral thinking clearly befuddles 1-dimensional beings.

Original Mike said...

”What he is doing is suggesting that something real be done, rather than continuing to fight about who's fault it is. Of course fixing something would take all the juice out of being mad and drawing endless attention.”

It’s like DACA. The left doesn’t want to fix it. They want the issue.

exhelodrvr1 said...

Trump taking actions that address the valid concerns of blacks is a REALLY scary concept for Democrats

buwaya said...

Category errors all over.

Usefulness depends on the problem.

Objectivity is an absolute necessity when dealing with nature.
People who can solve natures problems (with technology, including problems with technology), are extremely useful. Most technical education stresses objectivity in order to make such useful problem solvers. One must see reality clearly, and solutions derive from logical analysis of experience through testing.

Human problems also require objectivity, in the sense of seeing clearly. They also require more-or-less logical analysis of experience. But human nature requires taking often illogical feelings into account.

The troubles come, most usually, when a problem with nature is misunderstood as a human problem. The ongoing corruption of engineering education is a glaring example.

buwaya said...

And to be clear, "critical thinking" in US schools, a very popular trope, does not mean analyzing arguments and finding flaws. It is, entirely, about fixing a certain ideological frame on popular controversies. Mention of "critical thinking" in an academic prospectus is a reliable marker for ideological alignment, and especially of the instructors intention of forcing it on the students.

buwaya said...

Lateral thinking applies quite well to natural problems.
Its otherwise known as thinking out of the box. A problem may be over-defined, restricting the range of solutions, creating a set of overly-costly or uncertain options.

Fernandinande said...

n.n said...
Water is wet. It is liquid.


That's a white definition of a white word, so it doesn't count.

'The idea that objectivity is somehow a myth' - Well, ironically, that's an emotional reaction to a misreading of a text.

It's difficult to emotionally misread this course title the same way you did:

"White Mythologies: Objectivity, Meritocracy, and Other Social Constructions"

Bruce Hayden said...

“Objectivity points to getting the observer out of the dynamic picture. No longer a moving part.

Subjectivity points to getting the observer into the dynamic picture. The only moving part.”

Moral relativism is, essentially, that all frames of reference, all cultures, etc are equivalent. But, they aren’t, if you view things from the point of view of effectiveness. Why are Muslims so bad at science? Why do a billion Muslims have a fraction of the Nobel Laurates that tiny Israel, or Jews in general have? Ditto for sub Saharan Africans. And, to some extent, males over females? I would suggest here that what we call “objectivity” is a more effective way of looking at, and dealing with, the real world, than the alternatives, at least in terms of scientific and engineering successes. None of those groups, that trail in terms of objectivity, have significantly contributed to the science and technologies that make our lives so physically easy. To creating the cars, trucks, planes, trains, the Internet, computers, dish washers and microwaves, etc.

Note, I didn’t include Asians in that list of those who appear least objective. Esp Orientals, euphemistically known as “East Asians” for political correctness. The difference there, between East Asians, and Judeo-Christian Whites, is maybe that the latter are, maybe, better at lateral thinking, but the former may be better at linear thinking, but both groups better than most others at objective thinking. And hence, an interesting race technologically and economically to see which group wins, in the long run. Subjectively, my vote is for the latter, of course, since that is the group to which I belong.

Char Char Binks, Esq. said...

BLM isn't about pardons for anyone in prison or falsely convicted. That could lead to undesirable outcomes like the exoneration of white men convicted for defending themselves against blacks criminals.

The greatest causes célèbres of BLM have always been people such as Trayvon Martin, Michael Brown, and Tony Robinson Jr., criminals who were rightly killed while in the commission of violent crimes, and Freddie Gray and Sandra Bland who offed themselves while trying to win the Ghetto Lotto.

Pardons are no use to them.

buwaya said...

The problem with the idea that people could not read the Bible, and etc., as an apologia for Protestantism, is that reading as a common skill only collapsed after the fall of the Roman Empire. Before that vast numbers of the ancient world's middle class read. And this was still true when Christianity was ascendant. St. Augustine and the other fathers of the church wrote for a literate society, including laymen that could form and argue theological opinions.

But this society was swept away in the following barbarian age.

Bruce Hayden said...

“In objectivity, light leaves the object and enters the eye.

In subjectivity, light leaves the eye and enters the object. The Greek theory of sight. It explains neatly, also, why, if you put your hand in the way, you see your hand instead.”

But maybe not as well what happens when you close the blinds, or turn out the lights, eliminating the light source.

FullMoon said...

Inga said... [hush]​[hide comment]

Trump is dangling a bribe in front of them to get them to abandon their protests over the police associated abuses toward people of color. I suspect they know what he’s doing and very few will take him up on his offer. Free speech and the issue of police shooting black people indiscriminately might be more important to them than taking a bribe offered by Trump. It’s insulting and disingenuous to the max. No one should be fooled.


LOL

Keep 'em locked up, right?

Personally, I am all for a bunch of commutations. You did the crime, you are guilty, but you have served enough time. Some of these drug sentences 20, 30, 40 years? After ten or so, guy still has a chance to become productive citizen.

Jim at said...

It's a put up or shut moment for the players. - Eleanor

That's exactly what it is.

The problem, however, is they'll do neither.

Bruce Hayden said...

“The problem with the idea that people could not read the Bible, and etc., as an apologia for Protestantism, is that reading as a common skill only collapsed after the fall of the Roman Empire. Before that vast numbers of the ancient world's middle class read. And this was still true when Christianity was ascendant. St. Augustine and the other fathers of the church wrote for a literate society, including laymen that could form and argue theological opinions.

But this society was swept away in the following barbarian age.”

Except, I would contend that the rise of the Roman Church, which Protestantism was a reaction against, really didn’t gain ascendancy until the fall of the Western Roman Empire, with that church filling the temporal void left by the fall of that Empire. My understanding is that theological debates were much more extensive and wide ranging, prior to that event. And then, a century or two later, with the rise of Islam, three of the five main churches of the time succumbed quickly, leaving the Roman and Orthodox Church (located in embattled Constantinople) standing. I will further suggest that the illiteracy of this barbarian age (caused by the fall of the Western Roman Empire) was the main driving force behind the Roman Church being able to impose theological uniformity over its adherents.

buwaya said...

The argument against objectivity is purely tribalist rhetoric for the purpose of advancing careers of favored people who would not otherwise be considered competitive in those professions. It is entirely political.

It is one of those things James Damore objected to, that got him fired from Google.
He was objectively correct, within the limits of professional work.
But Google, being what it is, not a technical innovator but a conglomerate dedicated to market dominance and monopoly, is much more concerned with politics than technology.

Jim at said...

It’s insulting and disingenuous to the max. No one should be fooled. Inga

Or they could call his bluff, if that's what you think it is.

But they won't do that, either. They'll simply continue to bitch about a perceived problem because they don't want a solution.

They'll bitch if there is a problem. They'll bitch if there's a solution to the problem. Seems all they'll do is bitch.

buwaya said...

The Church was already ascendant, and extremely powerful, in the late empire, which did not collapse until after the barbarians breached the borders. That is, Rome was killed by invasion. There is excellent material evidence of this. As also evidence of the quite theocratic nature of late Rome, which had been the case for almost a century.

"The Fall of Rome and the End of Civilization", Ward-Perkins, is a superb roundup of the material evidence of the timing and nature of the fall. This was a tremendous demographic collapse as well.

The life of Augustine is a good marker. His works are full of implied information about his society. He came from and wrote for that literate lay audience, the landowners, gentry, bourgeois of his time. He died in Hippo while it was under seige by the Vandals. He lived to see his society being murdered.

chickelit said...

Pure water self ionizes to a tiny extent all on its own. So a glass of water at a pH of seven has a concentration of H+ of about 10^-7.
Those H+ ions are better thought of as H3O+ (protonated water molecules). Those molecules are in turn surrounded by a sea of water. The ions are wet by any standard.* When you look at that glass of pure water, you’re looking at something wet. So it’s not a stretch to sa6 that water is wet.
____________
*The same argument holds for tap water which contains dissolved minerals.

buwaya said...

The bitching is a rhetorical tactic.
Its all about the power.

Its useless to assume sincerity in these things, or any notion of reality. Objective conditions can be used as an argument but only as talking points and it is futile to try debate on this level as there are no sincere opponents.

Quaestor said...

Lateral thinking is solving problems through an indirect and creative approach...

Anyone who has taken the Mensa test will recognize this concept.

chickelit said...

I really like Trump’s challenge to the other G-? Nations to lower tariffs to zero. It was brilliant strategy to show them that the US means to make tariffs work for everyone, not just businesses that take advantage of US.

chickelit said...

“The bitching is a rhetorical tactic.
Its all about the power.”

Ditto for nagging.

Drago said...

Inga: "It’s insulting and disingenuous to the max. No one should be fooled."

Free as a bird white chick from Wisconsin advises blacks not to provide Trump with names of blacks unjustly incarcerated and/or over-sentenced so as to preclude Trump possibly freeing them.

In summary, white democrat want blacks imprisoned longer.

I did NOT see that one coming....

chickelit said...

Blogger rhhardin said...”Light leaving the eye and entering the object, subjectivity theory, is the male gaze.”

Light bouncing off the breasts, entering the male eyeball, and feeding his lust is the male graze. A veritable harvest of photons.

Char Char Binks, Esq. said...

SAY THEIR NAMES!

So far, the only names I've heard from BLM are those of black folks who were justly killed in the commission of violent felonies, and/or who killed themselves while in some degree of propinquity with a white person.

wwww said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
FullMoon said...

Or they could call his bluff, if that's what you think it is.

But they won't do that, either. They'll simply continue to bitch about a perceived problem because they don't want a solution.


The leaders, Sharpton, Jackson etc will compile lists for them. Then Trump will turn lists over to bi-partisan committee to check 'em out. Doing his job and scoring points.

Or, every player will suggest his homie, brother, cousin , uncle and or father and the list of players and their particular suggestions along with their crimes will be published so everyone in the world can provide input. Would be fascinating and lots of fun.

Inga...Allie Oop said...

“In summary, white democrat want blacks imprisoned longer.”

In summary, the Propagandist must propagandize. Do bears shit in the woods?

What Trump is doing is offering them a Sophie’s choice. Lateral thinking, lol, no more like devious thinking. He doesn't give a rat’s ass about wrongly incarcerated people. He called for the death penalty for drug dealers, yet he commuted the sentence of Alice Johnson, but only because he wants good press and to get people used to him giving pardons. I again have to ask, are you people really this gullible?

Quaestor said...

I'd say it's objectively true that some people think that stressing "objectivity" is a power move associated with white males. How do you reach people who feel like that?

With something longer than a barge pole is my first guess.

If you think the answer is by continuing to pressure them in the way that feels white-privileged, then you have lost touch with the real world of human beings.

Here's where Althouse runs out of steam. Feels to whom? The sane person who is outraged by the degradation of the academy, or the tenured mountebank who promulgates such excrement? I have a modest proposal, dump the "feelz". Let's discuss something less ephemeral, thoughts expressed in words for instance.

The root of the problem is this — progressivism is literally madness. Wherever progressivism reigns is indistinguishable from the worst bedlam of Hogarth's nightmares. The answer surely is not pressuring. Jonathan Swift put it best, “It is useless to attempt to reason a man out of a thing he was never reasoned into.” The answer is a thoroughgoing purge of the institutions followed by liberal doses of Thorazine for the expelled.

Michael said...

Inga
So Trump should issue no pardons that are not approved by the left? Or no pardons that would be beneficial to him politically? I have been told by my leftie friends that the prisons are filled with innocent people. Are they wrong?

Or should I be non gullible and hope they rot?

All politics to you, isn't it?

Inga...Allie Oop said...

Trump puts the protesting players into a position in which they can and will be criticized either way they go. That is what Trump’s goal is as well as putting himself in a good light to the easily duped. Drago quickly seized on the ruse and is already using it to help with him with his daily propagandizing.

Quaestor said...

Inga condemns propaganda. Yes, the bear shits in the woods. Then the turd sprouts wings and flies away.

buwaya said...

Nobody gives a rats ass.
There are no sincere persons in politics, other than being sincerely selfish, at some level.
And every last controversy is Sophies choice, as all public policy arguments imply loss, to someone somewhere. Usually not the people overtly selected as the losers.

And this all has been so since politics was invented by our chimpanzee-like ancestors.

So all that being given, can one now sincerely argue with logic and fact?

No, still not possible, because all the above cannot be driven into most human brains without the use of a battle-axe.

Rabel said...

Take up the White Man's burden--
And reap his old reward:
The blame of those ye better,
The hate of those ye guard--

Sounds about right.

Quaestor said...

Trump puts the protesting players into a position in which they can and will be criticized either way they go.

The blind squirrel finds a nut at last!

exhelodrvr1 said...

Inga,
You want them to throw away a chance to improve the situation for blacks just because the suggestion comes from Pres. Trump. Had Obama made the same offer, you would have been jumping up and down with glee. This is just another example of how many (maybe most) of the left would rather issues not be addressed successfully if Trump will get credit.

Drago said...

Inga: "Trump puts the protesting players into a position in which they can and will be criticized either way they go."

Not possible according to the insane lefties like you.

Trump is far too dumb and unsophisticated.

Or, did history get rewritten AGAIN 15 minutes ago?

LOL

Drago said...

Inga comes out 100% against politicians making use of a political advantage.

Very novel hot take.

LOL

Oso Negro said...

Trump has a phone and a pen. He can gin up some camera ready happy black folks in pretty short order. THAT is what bothers the progressives. Can't have the negroes slipping off the plantation.

chickelit said...

“A man may do an immense deal of good, if he does not care who gets the credit for it.”

Go ahead and give Obama credit for what Trump’s doing here. I mean, if it weren’t for Obama, we wouldn’t have Trump.

Drago said...

It was literally just days ago that the lefties were praising the Eagles and others for their little anti-Trump ploy.

But dude, that was so 48 hours ago.

Now its all about how unfair it is that Trump turned the tables on them with a propsal that is actually the right thing to do...and like the mind-numbed robots they are, the Ingas are now arguing AGAINST doing the right thing...because Trump!

Trump is a machiavelian political genius..and a stable one to boot..

wwww said...



Trump won Pennsylvania by 40,000 votes. There are a lot of Eagles fans who are independent voters.

Trump's base loves this fight. Dunno if Independent Eagle fan swing-state Pennsylvania voters love the fight.

Drago said...

wwww: "There are a lot of Eagles fans who are independent voters."

2 years from now I'll bet those independents will be lining up around the block to vote for Kamala Harris or someone like her who calls those voters racists and deplorables.

LOL

Milwaukie Guy said...

Chickelit: I really like Trump’s challenge to the other G-? Nations to lower tariffs to zero. It was brilliant strategy to show them that the US means to make tariffs work for everyone, not just businesses that take advantage of US.

This!

Inga...Allie Oop said...

“Inga comes out 100% against politicians making use of a political advantage.”

Of course it was truly awful when Democratic politicians did it, right Propagandizer?

But what is going on here is not use of a “political advantage”, that’s actually cleaning up what it truly is. It’s using devious means to demonize the players even further to the public. What it does is allow propagandists like Drago here to point at the players and criticize them for making a choice between helping wrongly incarcerated people( bribery) and exercising their First Amendment right to protest police abuses to people of color.

Trump is also trying to get the public used to his pardons, so when he pardons himself and those in his circle he can point to all the other pardons. This is not lateral thinking, this is not an act made out of decency, it’s devious, disingenuous and depends on the gullibility of his followers and lazy thinkers. It’s not genius, it’s not stable, it’s something a sociopath would do.

Drago said...

Inga: "Of course it was truly awful when Democratic politicians did it..."

Who says?

Drago said...

Inga: "Trump is also trying to get the public used to his pardons..."

Trump is providing improved justice to those who have been abused by our system.

And like the political svengali he is, he has you arguing against THAT! Even as you and your pals support and defend MS-13 and terrorists.

Amazing.

And wonderful.

But mostly amazing.

wwww said...



Kamala Harris will not be the nominee. Trump got a gift with Hillary as the nominee. She's a horrible politician. Old. No charisma. Unpopular. A woman.

Don't count on such a horrible nominee for the 2nd election.

My POV: Alienating rabid sports fans is risky in narrowly won swing states.

Drago said...

Trump has Pelosi and lefties saying unemployment rates don't matter, bonuses don't matter , payraises don't matter, crimes by illegals don't matter (especially MS-13 members), consumer confidence ratings don't matter, stock market doesn't matter, manufacturing indexes don't matter, the flag and the anthem don't matter, etc.

Too too funny.

Most of all, it's (to use LLR Chuck's description of obama) "magnificent".

Inga...Allie Oop said...

“Even as you and your pals support and defend MS-13 and terrorists.”

Who says? Oh yes, the Propagandizer sez, lol.

Drago said...

wwww: "My POV: Alienating rabid sports fans is risky in narrowly won swing states"

LOL

How very narrow of you.

There are other states that matter besides Pennsylvania, even if I conceded you point about this for an election that is literally over 2 years out and will pit almost certainly a far left candidate from the dems (assuming the super delegate reforms stick) against Trump.

exhelodrvr1 said...

Inga got her talking points from Nancy, and has come out against commuting the sentences for blacks who have a disproportionately severe sentence length.

Drago said...

MS-13 members who rape, mutilate and murder have a "divine spark".

Unborn babies? Not even human (even though we like collecting their body parts)

Signed: The Democrats

Bay Area Guy said...

The "Get Trump" Squad has been knocked back on their heels this week.

Bill Clinton has bit his lip and beclowned himself on tv
Harvey Weinstein was indicted
Andrew McCabe wants to plead the 5th
Two mid-level cultural icons (Ms. Spade and Mr, Bourdain) have killed themselves

And, the 2nd IG Report comes out Thurs.

The "Get Trump" Squad may need to employ a temporary tactical retreat.

Inga...Allie Oop said...

Now the Propagandizer tries to distract you from what Trump is doing with these bribes to the protesting players.

Drago said...

Bay Area Guy, why do you think LLR Chuck has been spinning like a whirling dervish trying to change the subject?

LOL

Awesome, awesome week.

Can't wait to see the IG report and follow on information related to McCabe changing the Flynn 302 notes all the while DELETING all records of the edits, then taking that info to Comey and Yates, then participating in the interview, even though McCabe was currently involved in an internal harrassment investigation against himself where Flynn was a witness against him!!

Yep. Nothing to see here. Move along...

Paco Wové said...

"Trump puts the protesting players into a position in which they can and will be criticized either way they go."

Gee, that sounds like some skillful politics there.

Paco Wové said...

"Alienating rabid sports fans is risky in narrowly won swing states."

I guess that means the NFL is toast in 2020, then.

Drago said...

Inga: "Now the Propagandizer tries to distract you from what Trump is doing with these bribes to the protesting players."

Releasing African Americans improperly jailed and/or sentenced is now a "bribe" in lefty world!

The lefties simply cannot stop themselves any longer, can they?

Trump = Stable Genius

Inga...Allie Oop said...

“Gee, that sounds like some skillful politics there.”

Sounds devious and despicable, but to Trumpists who have lost their moral compass it probably does sound positively genius.

Drago said...

The Left: Help Help!! Trump is pardoning and commuting the sentences of improperly jailed and/or oversentenced blacks!! Help Help! Come see the increasing inherent humanity and justice in the System!!

wwww said...



Few people like politicians. Most people barely tolerate them.

Lots of fans love their sports teams.

Drago said...

Inga: "Sounds devious and despicable...."

The gifts simply keep coming.

Inga is now officially arguing that it is "devious and despicable" to pardon and or commute sentences for improperly convicted and/or oversentenced blacks.

LOL

Ladies and gents, those comments, like all of LLR Chuck's and his dem pals, are keepers!!

Inga...Allie Oop said...

Keep on propagandizing, Propagandizer, you’re on a roll!

Original Mike said...

Blogger Inga said...”Trump puts the protesting players into a position in which they can and will be criticized either way they go.”

So you want..., what?

Drago said...

wwww: "Few people like politicians. Most people barely tolerate them.

Lots of fans love their sports teams."

LOL

I think people like jobs too. But what do I know? President Hillary and you know better than Trump.

wwww said...

almost certainly a far left candidate from the dems (assuming the super delegate reforms stick) against Trump.



My prediction: Tall white male. Moderate.

We'll see in a few years.

exhelodrvr1 said...

Help! Help! We're not being repressed!!

wwww said...

I think people like jobs too. But what do I know? President Hillary and you know better than Trump.



Yeah that's why I'm saying he needs to watch his swing state numbers. He should be 55% or more because of the economic news.

I know some people love his tweets and his fights. My POV: He could be at 55%. The tweeting and the drama holds his numbers down. Look at his polling with independents.

Drago said...

wwww: "My prediction: Tall white male. Moderate."

Of course it is....

......racist.

Drago said...

wwww: "Yeah that's why I'm saying he needs to watch his swing state numbers."

LOL

Uh, thanks there Captain Obvious.

Drago said...

Lefties: Help, Help!! Trump is behaving totally non-racist-y!!!!

Inga...Allie Oop said...

“I think people like jobs too.”

People like cheap food and goods too. Trump likes trade wars and antagonizing our allies while kissing the butts of authoritarians. Trump wants a G-8 because, it’s unfair to his pal Putin to have a G-7. He hopes you’ll forget about that annexation of Crimea thingy.

Drago said...

Israeli Transportation Minister Israel Katz: "The Western Wall is the holiest place for the Jewish people, and I decided to call the train station that leads to it after President Trump."

https://www.jpost.com/Israel-News/New-Western-Wall-train-station-to-be-named-after-Trump-520135

Lefty response: Jews shouldn't have trains!!!!

Lloyd W. Robertson said...

"I'd say it's objectively true that some people think that stressing "objectivity" is a power move associated with white males." I guess this is the serious point behind the complaints about "mansplaining." Jason Bateman, of all people, got caught on this. A female colleague said she could confirm that another colleague, Jeffrey Tambor, acted inappropriately in the workplace. Bateman tried to defend Tambor: we all get angry sometimes... The woman said: no, when you disagree Jason, like most men, you stay within certain limits, Tambor didn't. Bateman tried again: it could happen in any family that there are disagreements like this. He was accused of mansplaining. She had indicated that from her own experience, there is truth to the accusations against Tambor. Bateman was trying to somehow reveal to her the true reality, in comparison to which she was somehow dreaming.

Drago said...

Inga: "Trump likes trade wars and antagonizing our allies while kissing the butts of authoritarians."

Canada currently places a tariff of 260% of US Dairy goods going to Canada.

What would you do about it?

Trick Question! We already know what you would do because its what all the dems and far too many republicans have done: lock in permanent advantages for all other nations against US goods.

That is what Trump is trying to change.

The days of the Inga's of the world thinking the US will always be the piggy bank for other nations is over.

O...ver.

Bad Lieutenant said...

You know, the new girl shows up at the office, first casual Friday, top shows not extremely but enough to unmask the boy magnets, I don't feel like it's my fault.

Inga...Allie Oop said...

“The days of the Inga's of the world thinking the US will always be the piggy bank for other nations is over. “

The Propagandizer is doing the Lord’s work today! Hallelujah! Preach it Brother Drago!

Drago said...

The US currently has a $150 Billion dollar trade deficit with the EU.

The EU charges a 10% tariff on US cars going to Europe. The US only charges 2.5% tariff on European cars coming to the US.

Inga wants that to last FOR-EVAH!

Yeah, its a real mystery how Trump flipped Michigan, Wisconsin and Pennsylvania from dem to rep.

A real mystery..........not.

Original Mike said...

What do you want done, Inga?

Drago said...

Notice how Inga does not address the 260% tariffs Canada places on US dairy goods.

Inga supposedly lives in Wisconsin, but she cares not a whit for the dairy farmers in her state. All she wants is for the dreamy Justin T of Canada to be happy as he raids the US piggy bank.

tsk tsk

I think, and Trump thinks, and Trump's entire administration thinks our Dairy farmers deserve better than to be shackled while Inga's dreamboat president gets away with our cash.

Inga to WI Dairy Farmers: Drop Dead

Drago said...

Canada and Mexico have made hundreds of billions by using the loopholes (not really loopholes since all the globalist negotiators knew exactly what they were doing) in NAFTA to allow 3rd party nations to use Canada and Mexico to route goods into the US and bypass trade restrictions/requirements.

There are literally trillions of US dollars flowing out of our nation due to these treaties. I'm not surprised ALL of the US trading partners are upset. Their little gravy train is being attacked to get a better deal for Americans.

Inga hates that.

Literally hates it.

Drago said...

Original Mike: "What do you want done, Inga?"

Inga and LLR Chuck want Trump to give up and Stop Winning.

It's really that simple.

Inga...Allie Oop said...

Speaking of Wisconsin...

At a recent town hall meeting held by U.S. Rep. Jim Sensenbrenner (R) in Hartford, a local manufacturer complained vehemently about the new steel and aluminum tariffs imposed by President Donald Trump.

The people of Wisconsin, Republican and Democrat alike are not on board (unlike the Propagandizer) with the Trump Trade War. BTW, Hartford is in Washington County, which is deeply red.

Drago said...

By the way, if you want to flummox any lefty/lib (and I mean, every single one) when the subject of trade partner anger over Trump comes up, simply ask these 2 questions:

1) What, exactly is Trump asking for?
2) Why, exactly, is that unreasonable?

Spoiler: You will never get an answer to the first question.

Ever.

Inga...Allie Oop said...

“U.S. agriculture is bearing the brunt of the countermeasures already imposed by Mexico, equivalent to $2.62 billion of the targeted products.

That includes $387 million in tariffs on U.S. cheese, according to a report from S&P Global Market Intelligence, which tracks global commerce.

About 90 percent of Wisconsin milk is turned into cheese, and 90 percent of that cheese is sold outside of the state's borders.

Mexico buys nearly a quarter of all dairy products exported by the United States.

Cheese, yogurt, pizza, cucumbers, soups and prepared meals are some Wisconsin food products on Canada’s list of items slated for tariffs.

“We think it’s going to be pretty devastating to us,” said Jeff Schwager, president of Sartori Cheese in Plymouth.

“Uncertainty is the killer. If these tariffs go into place, what will they be? And how long will they last? We are in uncharted territory,” he said.

Sartori, which buys milk from 130 Wisconsin dairy farms, exports products to 49 countries.

U.S. cheese makers were at a trade disadvantage with the European Union even before the threat of additional tariffs, according to Schwager.

“We pay a dollar a pound (of cheese) for import duties into Europe,” he said.”

Jim at said...

I again have to ask, are you people really this gullible? - Inga

Nobody is being gullible here. We know exactly what he's doing.

You just don't like it.

Tough.

Drago said...

I love when Inga posts links that actually disprove her point!

BTW, that is an everyday thing.

Inga's "local manufacturer" currently has to acquire steel and aluminum from Canada, Mexico and EU.

What a surprise!! That's because our trade deals have bankrupted and destroyed AMERICAN producers of steel and aluminum.

AND, even better (but not from a US perspective), producers from all over the world are shipping their steel and aluminum products INTO Canada and Mexico which is then, via the NAFTA loopholes, brought into the US with little to no restrictions.

That's how Inga and her pals destroyed entire US industries and gave our money away to other nations.

Inga has no idea how this happened, nor will she ever. In other words, a literally perfect democrat.

Inga...Allie Oop said...

“Nobody is being gullible here. We know exactly what he's doing.”

No you don’t. He doesn't even know he’s doing.

Original Mike said...

The left wants to protest, not to actually fix things.

I keep coming back to DACA. Trump offers them more than they were asking for (citizenship for 1.8M illegals) but he wants in return to stop the flow. But no, that would deprive the left of the issue (not to mention even more illegals), so we can’t have that. Frankly, it’s disgusting.

Jim at said...

There are a lot of Eagles fans who are independent voters. - www

Once again, Pennsylvania is a Steelers state. Eagles are Philly.

Two, if people are willing to not cast a second vote for Trump because of a he said/she said thing 30 months prior to the election? That's on them. Not Trump.

Drago said...

Inga dances on the graves of American industries that Trump is attempting to restore.

But that has become obvious to so many people in the midwest. The dems want ALL the cash transferred to better nations and people than our horrible deplorables who simply won't die off fast enough.

But there were just enough of these people who have suffered at Inga's hands to vote in Trump....and they are not going to fooled with all the old talking points.

And there lies the problem for Inga and LLR Chuck and the dems: All they have left are the old talking points.

Jim at said...

No you don’t. He doesn't even know he’s doing.

Read the damn thread. We're all in agreement that he's putting the NFL players in a box and turned it back on them.

We know it. You know it. He knows it. Even Vicki from Pasadena knows it.

You just don't like it.

Drago said...

Early Inga: Trump has fooled everyone and his enemies have no good choices!!!

Later Inga: "He doesn't even know he’s doing."

Discuss.

LOL

Inga...Allie Oop said...

“I love when Inga posts links that actually disprove her point!”

No it does not, good try though Propagandizer..

All of Regal Ware’s aluminum comes from Canada.

“We can’t even buy it in the United States,” Reigle said. “Our competitors, which come from all over the world, aren’t subject to these tariffs … So I’m now at a 25% disadvantage immediately on all those products.”

Every time the U.S. has imposed tariffs, it’s never worked out the way it was intended, according to Reigle.

Sensenbrenner told him that “one of the few things I disagree with the president on is the tariffs.”

The Menomonee Falls Republican said he was among 101 GOP lawmakers who wrote to the White House objecting to the steel and aluminum tariffs.”

Rabel said...

"U.S. cheese makers were at a trade disadvantage with the European Union even before the threat of additional tariffs, according to Schwager."

“We pay a dollar a pound (of cheese) for import duties into Europe,” he said.”

Heh.

Inga...Allie Oop said...

“Trump has fooled everyone and his enemies have no good choices!!!

Later Inga: "He doesn't even know he’s doing."

Apparently it doesn’t tak much to bamboozle you folks. He most assuredly does not know that what he’s doing is energizing the independents and certainly Democrats with his underhanded deviousness in all manner of things, from Trade Wars, to kissing Putin’s ass, to antagonizing our allies, to going to war with sports figures who are exercising their First Amendments Rights by protesting police abuse of people of color. These things are compiling and aren’t being ignored by those who will be voting in November.

Drago said...

“We can’t even buy it in the United States,” Reigle said."

Inga thinks this proves her point.

What a sad creature.

Inga to WI Dairy Farmers: Drop Dead
Inga to US Steel and Aluminum Producers: Stay Dead

Please Democrats, put Inga in charge of your messaging this fall!

Sounds alot like this: Hillary Clinton: "Because we're going to put a lot of coal miners and coal companies out of business, right?"

Coal, steel, aluminum, etc.

The dems can't wait to destroy industries.

Fortunately, there is someone in charge who doesn't think destroying our industries to subsidize other nations is a good idea....and the voting in Nov of 2016 reflected that.

And after just 18 months or so, those people know they made the right choice.

Drago said...

Inga: "Apparently it doesn’t tak much to bamboozle you folks."

If you like your doctor, you can keep your doctor. No one is going to take your doctor away. Period.

Every family will see a reduction in health care premiums with an average savings of $2,500.

You will be able to choose your own doctor.

We will be able to increase coverage, offer more options, improve your plans and save you money.

Bamboozle

Inga...Allie Oop said...

Propagandizer, until steel and aluminum manufacturers in this country can provide these American companies with steel and aluminum they need, they are forced to buy it from other countries. In the mean time, why punish these appliance manufacturers? They stated they can’t even BUY aluminum in this country.

Inga...Allie Oop said...

“Wisconsin manufacturers of lawn and garden equipment also stand to take a hit from the tariffs through reduced sales to Canada and higher steel and aluminum costs that threaten to drive up prices of their products.

“Who loses? It’s the consumer,” said Kris Kiser, president of the Outdoor Power Equipment Institute, a trade group that represents manufacturers such as Briggs & Stratton Corp., Kohler Co., and Ariens Co.

“We are very disappointed with the current tariffs, the back and forth, and the tariff war that doesn’t suit anyone’s interest,” Kiser said. “This is what happens when you interfere in the marketplace.””

Drago said...

Inga: "Propagandizer, until steel and aluminum manufacturers in this country can provide these American companies with steel and aluminum they need, they are forced to buy it from other countries."

LOL

It will take more than a few days to rebuild to some extent the American industries and jobs that you and your pals destroyed, gleefully, happily, joyfully.

The first step is to establish Fair Trade policies that do not transfer all US jobs and money to other nations.

It's a shame you and your pals just had to give our jobs and money away just to feel better about yourselves and reward other nations, but this is where we are now, because of you.

Drago said...

https://www.platts.com/latest-news/metals/pittsburgh/us-steel-producers-cheer-trumps-tariff-27921787

""We have to protect and build our steel and aluminum industries while at the same time showing great flexibility and cooperation for those that are really friends of ours, both on a trade basis and a military basis," Trump said at a White House event Thursday before signing off on the tariffs."

"The president's action today is key in stemming the tide of unfair foreign imports and putting steel workers back to work," American Iron and Steel Institute CEO Thomas Gibson said in a statement. "... With the signing today, the steel industry can be on track to maintain our essential contributions to national security and critical infrastructure like transportation, public health and safety, energy and the power grid, all of which rely heavily on steel."

Philip Bell, president of the Steel Manufacturers Association, said his organization is optimistic these tariffs will adjust imports to provide a level playing field for US producers.

"We look forward to the measures being in effect for a period of sufficient duration for companies to reinvest in the steel industry," Bell said. "We also support limited exceptions for key allies, including Mexico and Canada, well-regulated exclusions for products not available from US producers, and mechanisms to avoid transshipment and circumvention of the tariffs."

Beloved Commenter AReasonableMan said...

Headline in the right-wing, strongly pro-Brexit Telegraph:

Donald Trump accuses EU of 'robbing' US as he delivers a new snub to Theresa May

I am old enough to remember when insulting the Brits was viewed as a bad thing by those on the right.

Drago said...

To repeat: "Philip Bell, president of the Steel Manufacturers Association, said his organization is optimistic these tariffs will adjust imports to provide a level playing field for US producers."

The days of Inga's pals screwing US producers of Steel and Aluminum are over.

If Inga and her lefty pals aren't too busy avoiding the realities of Venezuela and Nicaragua, perhaps they could start a GoFundMe to send more money to Merkel, Macron, Trudeau and whichever commie is next in line in Mexico.

Beloved Commenter AReasonableMan said...

Canada has a trade deficit with the US. China has a massive surplus. Guess who has received the most sanctions from Trump?

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