April 5, 2018

"Vitamins are not inert...They are biologically active agents. We have to think of them in the same way as drugs."

"If you take too high a dose of them, they cause side effects," says a doctor quoted in "Older Americans Are ‘Hooked’ on Vitamins" (NYT).

I don't believe in taking vitamins myself. It's part of my "better than nothing is a high standard" approach to life. I'm not going to take pills as a precaution, just in case it might do good. Less is more. Also: eat food.

107 comments:

rhhardin said...

The point of a multivitamin is to ensure you don't miss something you need, not to get more of something good.

Say you eat the same thing every day.

langford peel said...

Not taking vitamins is very foolish. You need to take a blood test to determine where you have deficiencies and supplement accordingly.

Of course big Pharma wants you to stick with drugs they sell. I am surprised you buy into their lies.

Dust Bunny Queen said...

Eating a balanced diet is a good goal. However, for many people it may not be completely possible for various reasons. Income or lack of funds is one of the main reasons.

Others have biological issues that require supplements in various minerals and vitamins. I am intolerant of most dairy foods other than yogurt (which is great) and some cheeses, which then give me 'other' issues due to the high fat content. So...I supplement calcium, magnesium and zinc plus vitamin D3 ; Also vitamin C when fresh fruits are scarce. I take a multi vitamin, IF I remember which is about 2 times a week.

"If you take too high a dose of them, they cause side effects

DUH. Too high a dose of anything can cause side effects. Cheese for example :-\

Inga said...

Many people are chronically low on Vitamin D, they suffer with bone pain and many other nasty symptoms. A simple blood test determines this. It’s people who have strange and or limited food choices, or people who eat a large amount of processed food (although some processed food is fortified) who should be cognizant of the fact they may be deficient. Eating naturally with variety helps, plus choose foods fruits and vegetables that are colorful, the deeper the hue the better,

n.n said...

Water, oxygen, protein, glucose, etc. Everything that makes me viable, will also kill me, in sufficient quantity and concentration.

Bob Boyd said...

If you take too much advice from doctors, it can cause side effects.

rhhardin said...

A friend long ago complained about a test question, "Why is it important not to add too much ...?"

Because too much is too much, he said. What kind of question is that?

Gunbunny62 said...

And besides, they are shaped like the Flintstones.

YoungHegelian said...

If you take too high a dose of them, they cause side effects

This is one of those "No shit, Sherlock!" statements, but I know exactly the sort to whom the doctor is speaking. For those people, there can't be too much of a good thing.

It's relatively easy, for example, to take too much iron, & have it cause gastrointestinal issues.

It takes a lot of work to take too much vitamin C, but if you do, it results in the hemoglobin in your body working too efficiently, & your red blood cells get damaged by too much oxygen.

In the middle is vitamin A, which like all the fat soluble vitamins, is relatively easy to overdo. Did you know that polar bear liver has so much vitamin A that if you ate one it would kill you? It's true. So, if you never, ever listen to anything else I tell you on this blog, listen to this: Never eat polar bear liver! You can thank me later.

n.n said...

A few cells here. A few cells there. Bananas should probably carry a radioactive hazard warning. On the precautionary principle, we should, probably, maybe, ban high capacity bananas, and sell banana chips to anyone who must indulge.

mockturtle said...

Due to our comparatively sedentary lifestyle, most of us cannot consume [without getting fat] sufficient nutrients to cover all the bases. If you look at the yuuuge meals that were served a century ago it is evident that people burned a lot more calories then.

Etienne said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
traditionalguy said...

It's the dose, stupid. Just don't overdose. Humans are designed to get what we need from our food. A Vitamin is a food too. And I expect Buwaya will tell us that the British Empire came to rule the world because its 84 gun Ships of the line were manned by healthy Limeys. The opposing Navys left off giving out lime juice and their poor sailors became weak half way around the world. But too many limes can be bad for you too,( Don't tell Linus Pauling.)

Other than B-12 sublingual and topical Testosterone, the best way to health is eating food mindful of Blood Types. The Os , the Bs and the As do better on differing diet choices.

Henry said...

Do not eat polar bear liver.

Achilles said...

I have been slacking lately on the d and b12 sublingual drops thanks for reminding me.

Kyzernick said...

I take a men's multivitamin almost every day, and an additional zinc supplement. I read somewhere that lots of zinc is good for male sexual health, and can increase sperm count and testosterone levels, which in turn increases the quality of the bedroom time.

Given how eager my wife and former girlfriends were anytime I hinted at wanting a piece, I think it's working. My gym results also seem to testify, but I also use a good protein powder so maybe it's unrelated.

tcrosse said...

If you take too high a dose of them, they cause side effects

How high is too high ? Enough to cause side effects. QED

Gilbert Pinfold said...

"Sola docis facit venenum"--The dose makes the poison. The normal American is not vitamin deficient in diet, save for individual medical conditions or voluntary dietary preferences. Save for not consuming milk )which UW and WARF benefit greatly on the Steenbock/DeLuca patents on adding vitamin D), most people do not need supplemental D if they get adequate sunlight. Of course our mania about skin cancer works against that as well

Henry said...

Inga said...
Many people are chronically low on Vitamin D, they suffer with bone pain and many other nasty symptoms.
They need sunlight.

Meade said...

"Never eat polar bear liver!"

Corollary: Never let polar bears eat your liver. Why not? Well, for one thing, without your liver, how are you going to produce the bile necessary for breaking down and digesting those polar bear steaks you just slapped on the grill?

dreams said...

"Many people are chronically low on Vitamin D, they suffer with bone pain and many other nasty symptoms. A simple blood test determines this."

And this, Vitamin D deficiency in pregnancy 'increases preeclampsia risk' which can be life threatening. One of my great nieces had to have a cesarean because of this. People don't eat right especially young people.

https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/271768.php

Achilles said...

A raw egg somehow manages to become a complete living chick after gestastion.

I figure two raw eggs a day in a meal replacement shake will cover what needs to be covered for the most part.

n.n said...

Vegans are not viable without B-12 supplements.

Bob Boyd said...

How do you catch a polar bear?

Cut a hole in the ice.
Scatter peas around the hole.
When he comes to take a pea, kick him in the ice hole.

rehajm said...

And besides, they are shaped like the Flintstones.

I worry about overdosing when taking The Great Gazoo ones. That's a huge head.

Dickin'Bimbos@Home said...

I used to think that way. But, my vitamin D is low, same with iron. Nothing wrong with taking a few supplements. Though, good idea to use caution, do not over do it, and take breaks.

doc Dickin' has spoken.

Ann Althouse said...

"I figure two raw eggs a day in a meal replacement shake will cover what needs to be covered for the most part."

Well, I sure don't eat raw eggs. I'd be afraid of salmonella.

traditionalguy said...

Personal testimony on taking Mega Dose vitimin C: The C cures everything theory was popular in the 1980s. After several months on it, I had to see a urologist for burning urination. After tests the Doc told me it was the excess Vitamin C, which is pure acid, burning the lining of my bladder as it was being excreted as fast as my overdosed body could manage to get rid of it.

He was right. And boy was that a relief.

Inga said...

If you’re taking a statin for high cholesterol, it might be a good idea to take CoEnzyme q-10 ( ubiquinol is the best active source) along with it. As I understand it, the way statins work is that they cut off this enzymatic pathway high up on the chain and that’s why so many statin users experience muscle pain and in extreme cases muscle breakdown.

Meade said...

For efficiency, instead of scattering, you should world the peace around the ice hole. One hole; two problems solved.

Bob Boyd said...

Talk about scraping.

Etienne said...

The best stuff I've been taking for old age is 20 mg of methotrexate. I can now get out of bed without creaking noises in my joints.

Inga said...

“A raw egg somehow manages to become a complete living chick after gestastion.”

LOL, not if it’s not a fertilized egg. FYI, chickens lay unfertilized eggs too.

Ignorance is Bliss said...

n.n said...

Vegans are not viable without B-12 supplements.

That's why you should eat a wide variety of humans, not just vegans.

Inga said...

“The best stuff I've been taking for old age is 20 mg of methotrexate. I can now get out of bed without creaking noises in my joints.”

Methotrexate is for rheumatoid arthritis, not old age.

Meade said...

I take only 2 daily supplements: 1 raw clove of garlic and 2 tablespoons of tart cherry concentrate. I don't want to brag but I'll probably live to be 969.

Bob Boyd said...

"That's why you should eat a wide variety of humans, not just vegans."

I like Chinese, but an hour later I'm hungry again.

James K said...

Well, I sure don't eat raw eggs. I'd be afraid of salmonella.

Not a very big risk these days, but there is also such a thing as pasteurized raw eggs. They're used industrially (for things like mayonnaise), but apparently also available retail.

YoungHegelian said...

@Ignorance,

As always, The Onion is on top of it!

Etienne said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
MadisonMan said...

We need to tell you what is best for you. And that is constantly changing.

Signed, America's Medical Establishment.

BTW -- Dad always said that many vitamins are water soluble -- Bs and C -- and if you have to many, you just piss away all the money you spent on them.

I have a typical omnivore's diet. This week: Lots of ham, and leftover cheesy (of course) scalloped potatoes that I made over the weekend. When you cook for just two, leftovers go a long way.

cubanbob said...

Other than fat soluble vitamins, it's hard to overdose on vitamins if one just takes standard multivitamins. Having had pre-skin cancers getting a lot of sun for vitamin D isn't a good idea ( for me and for people like me). A pill works just fine.

Meade said...

"I like Chinese, but an hour later I'm hungry again."

One more reason for Trump's tariffs.

dreams said...

"I take only 2 daily supplements: 1 raw clove of garlic and 2 tablespoons of tart cherry concentrate. I don't want to brag but I'll probably live to be 969."

If you make it, let me know.

Inga said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Inga said...

“tart cherry concentrate.”

Tart cherry juice concentrate is chock full of goodness. From melatonin, to an anti inflammatory, to a treatment for gout. Have a glass at bedtime, it’ll help you fall asleep

Bob Boyd said...

@Meade

What benefits do you get from tart cherry concentrate?

MadisonMan said...

I'm not Meade, but I'd say: Delicious refreshment!

Meade said...

"If you make it, let me know."

Will do. Find me on Facebook. Or Twitter: #Meadthselah

MadisonMan said...

..although I don't take the concentrate. I just drink Tart Cherry juice. Sentry Hilldale sells it -- near the Red Peppers. If you walk from Carrots to Bananas, you'll pass right by it.

Achilles said...

Ann Althouse said...
"I figure two raw eggs a day in a meal replacement shake will cover what needs to be covered for the most part."

Well, I sure don't eat raw eggs. I'd be afraid of salmonella.

The shells are your only concern. Chicks are not born with salmonella.

Don’t blend the shells in your shake and you don’t even know the eggs are there.

Meade said...

"What benefits do you get from tart cherry concentrate?"

I've been told it keeps the free radicals away. In a town like this I figure I need all the help I can get.

Inga said...

Amazon carries tart cherry juice concentrate. It’s pricey but it’s concentarted so you mix it with water, very tasty, no need to add any sweetener, it’s not all that tart.

Yancey Ward said...

Ignorance is Bliss said...
n.n said...

"Vegans are not viable without B-12 supplements."

"That's why you should eat a wide variety of humans, not just vegans."


Vegans are all gristle.

Achilles said...

Inga said...
“A raw egg somehow manages to become a complete living chick after gestastion.”

LOL, not if it’s not a fertilized egg. FYI, chickens lay unfertilized eggs too.

What kind of nurse are you?

Do you think the nutritional value of an egg is meaningfully affected by rooster sperm?

...

Ann Althouse said...

"Don’t blend the shells in your shake and you don’t even know the eggs are there."

How do you break eggs and insure that nothing on the shell gets in the egg?

Inga said...

“Bacteria can be inside an uncracked, whole egg. Contamination of eggs may be due to bacteria within the hen's ovary or oviduct before the shell forms around the yolk and white. Salmonella doesn't make the hen sick. Eggs are washed and sanitized at the processing plant.”

Handle eggs properly to prevent salmonella.

Yancey Ward said...

My father was a vitamin hound after about age 60. Once I took over his pill regimen preparation, I have bottles and bottles of C, minerals, etc. that will never get used.

A multi-vitamin won't harm you, but many foods most of us consume are already fortified with them (cereals, for example), so it probably isn't necessary to supplement most of them.

After I turned 50, I started taking a multivitamin every other day with dinner.

Inga said...

The dummy:“A raw egg somehow manages to become a complete living chick after gestation.”

Me:“LOL, not if it’s not a fertilized egg. FYI, chickens lay unfertilized eggs too.”

The dummy: “What kind of nurse are you?”

Me: One that understands how an egg is fertilized.

The dummy: “Do you think the nutritional value of an egg is meaningfully affected by rooster sperm?”

Me: Not at all what I said.

Bob Boyd said...

"Vegans are all gristle."

Clowns taste funny.
Feminists don't, but they can be bitter.

I Have Misplaced My Pants said...

Sorry if it's annoying to hear forty nitpicky counterexamples, but pregnant women need to take their prenatals if only for the folic acid.

P.S. I gave this a quick google to make sure my information isn't too out of date (I've been having babies for 16 years and things have changed) and found the following silliness from an article on why someone doesn't take prenatal vitamins:

I decided to do my own research and veer from doing exactly as my doctor instructed. After all, women have been giving birth much longer than prenatal vitamins have been available.

Goodness, people can be morons. I bet this genius can't spell i-n-f-a-n-t m-o-r-t-a-l-i-t-y.

dreams said...

"“Bacteria can be inside an uncracked, whole egg. Contamination of eggs may be due to bacteria within the hen's ovary or oviduct before the shell forms around the yolk and white. Salmonella doesn't make the hen sick. Eggs are washed and sanitized at the processing plant.”

Handle eggs properly to prevent salmonella."

Inga knows a lot more about eggs than I need to know.

mockturtle said...

If one lives in the Pacific NW, one is Vitamin D deficient. When I tell people who have never lived there that there can be weeks--even months, depending on location--where you never see the sun they are skeptical.

Inga said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Inga said...

“Goodness, people can be morons. I bet this genius can't spell i-n-f-a-n-t m-o-r-t-a-l-i-t-y.”

Back to the good old days of days of spina bifida due to low folic acid levels for her I guess.

Achilles said...

Ann Althouse said...

“How do you break eggs and insure that nothing on the shell gets in the egg?“

You try. But shit happens.

I don’t remember the last time I saw a salmonella outbreak much less one due to eggs. Last ones were on spinach and people eat that without a care.

If you are worried about egg shells I would highly recommend not looking at your kitchen under certain types of light.

Achilles said...

“Me: Not at all what I said.“

You said something you thought was very witty but you sounded like an empty barrel.

Inga said...

Also, if you have a histamine intolerance, don’t ever eat raw eggs. The white of the egg is very high in histamine.

Inga said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Michael K said...

Fat soluble vitamins like A and D can accumulate and it is possible to get overdoses. B 12 is not even absorbed in the gut without intrinsic factor and, if you are deficient, you are probably taking PPI ulcer drugs (like I do) or have atrophic gastritis which can be precancerous.

The water soluble vitamins are mostly in city sewer systems, unless you have a septic tank. You can't OD on them.

I started taking vitamins a few years ago.

Inga said...

“You said something you thought was very witty but you sounded like an empty barrel.”

And you sound like an empty head, telling people to eat raw eggs

Trumpit said...

"People who eat a varied diet generally get all the vitamins and minerals they need from the foods they eat."

I encourage people that I dislike to believe that old trope. Life on earth is suffering from the catastrophic effects of extreme human overpopulation such as global warming. The sooner people die, the better off we will all be. Avoid all nutritional supplements like the plague, and eat a balanced diet; that is my advice to you. I suggest that you start a two pack a day cigarette habit; I call that vitamin C; and drink a couple of beers daily; I call that vitamin B. Have a doughnut for dessert; I call that vitamin D; an apple a day keeps the doctor away to get your daily requirement of vitamin A. Have some alphabet soup to get the rest of your vitamins, but please don't megadose on the Campbell's soup. I hope no one thinks I'm suffering from a vitamin deficiency affecting my mental health; I speak from the heart, not from the brain.

P.S. "Also: eat food." I do, I do. I eat cat and dog food. Only the best, though. If it's good enough for my beloved pets, Tyler and Ferrous, then it's good enough from me.

Michael said...

Althouse. How do you make steak tartare if you are afraid of raw eggs?

Yancey Ward said...

Inga,

The problem was that your first comment in the chain brought up an irrelevant point about the nutritional content of an egg, but made in a snide manner like it was some sort of "Gotcha" moment. You could have have simply wrote the comment like this:

"Did you know that chickens sometimes lay unfertilized eggs?"

That is something I imagine a lot of people don't actually know, and is an interesting factoid.

Dust Bunny Queen said...

RE: eggs, eggshells and contamination

We get most of our eggs from local people who raise chickens. The eggs come with a bloom on them that protects the contents of the egg for a good while. Also, some eggs come with chicken poop, straw and dirt on occasion. The bloom will wear off eventually. To pre clean the eggs and because no one likes to look at dirty eggs, we take a paper towel in warm water and gently brush off the dirty looking eggs. NOT washed. Just cleaned and wiped off. If they are really gross or seem damaged, I toss them. There are more eggs available. The clean ones we leave alone. Put them in cardboard egg cartons and store in the fridge in another building.

The eggs will stay fresh in the fridge for weeks, even months.....but they don't last that long. We eat 'em.

To be on the safe side, I wash the eggs in warm running water again just before using and wipe down the eggs with a soft cloth or dry paper towel to remove any missed gunk. I don't use soap or antibiotic soap because who wants to taste soap and it isn't necessary.

We are still alive :-D

Achilles said...

“That is something I imagine a lot of people don't actually know, and is an interesting factoid.“

It has been a long time since I got a fertilized egg from the supermarket.

When you get a fertilized one you know. It is pretty obvious.

Most supermarket eggs are laid by chickens that only see male chickens when their brothers are detected and thrown in a very large blender. Modern supermarket Eggs are invariably chicken periods. That time of month(day).

Yancey Ward said...

DBQ,

My experience with eggs is that after about 3-4 weeks in a fridge, the eggs I use give off sort of unpleasant sulfur smell and taste, so I try to keep the supply down to that I can consume within two weeks.

Inga said...

“Inga,

The problem was that your first comment in the chain brought up an irrelevant point about the nutritional content of an egg...”

I wasn’t making any point about the nutritional content whatsoever. My point was that not all eggs are fertilized and not all eggs become chicks.

Inga said...

“To be on the safe side, I wash the eggs in warm running water again just before using and wipe down the eggs with a soft cloth or dry paper towel to remove any missed gunk. I don't use soap or antibiotic soap because who wants to taste soap and it isn't necessary.

We are still alive :-D.”

I don’t wash eggs at all, I just cook them.

Unknown said...

Due to insufficient sunshine between the Autumnal and Vernal Equinox, and the advised use of sunscreen the rest of the year, I take daily supplemental doses of Vitamin D. Can't tell if I feel better or worse, but I can say my vitamin D blood test results make my primary care physician happy. I pay him a $25 co-pay per visit, so that probably helps too.

-sw

Michael K said...

The clean ones we leave alone. Put them in cardboard egg cartons and store in the fridge in another building.

Until you refrigerate eggs, they are alive, fertilized or not. If kept cool but not refrigerated, eggs will keep for weeks.

When I was a kid, we got eggs from our farm by shipping a 12 dozen wooden crate by Railway Express to the farm. The farmer who farmed it, filled the crate over a fees days and shipped it back. We kept it in a root cellar in the basement.

We would use about one crate every two weeks or so.

When I sailed to Hawaii, my wife bought fresh live eggs at an egg farm and we kept them in the stern of the boat where it was cool. They were fine after the 12 days it took to get to Hawaii.

We had egg mcmuffins every day for breakfast.

Some boats in the race had all freeze dried food. Not us.

Yancey Ward said...

Here is comment and response you wrote, Inga:

Achilles wrote: “A raw egg somehow manages to become a complete living chick after gestastion.”

Inga wrote: "LOL (emphasis added by Y.W.), not if it’s not a fertilized egg. FYI, chickens lay unfertilized eggs too."

Achilles was clearly making the point that an egg contains all the nutrients necessary to produce actual living breathing bird, and all by itself. And yet you felt compelled to mock the comment with the irrelevant detail about fertilized and unfertilized eggs, and then you compound your error by complaining about Achilles pointing this out to you. He had a right to be miffed about it, too. Like I wrote, you could have informed people about the fact that chickens can lay unfertilized eggs in a neutral manner, but you didn't. The way you did it makes you look very small, and by playing dumb now about it only compounds your error.

Bad Lieutenant said...

When I sailed to Hawaii, my wife bought fresh live eggs at an egg farm and we kept them in the stern of the boat where it was cool. They were fine after the 12 days it took to get to Hawaii.



What was your breakage rate?

Inga said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Inga said...

Achilles:“A raw egg somehow manages to become a complete living chick after gestastion.”

Me: LOL, not if it’s not a fertilized egg. FYI, chickens lay unfertilized eggs too.


Achilles point was that SALMONELLA doesn’t kill the contents of the egg, his sentence did not discuss the NUTRITIONAL aspect at all. He wrote it in a way that could be played with, as I did. My comment to him was tongue in cheek, a bit snarky, yes indeed and anyone with a normal sense of humor would’ve gotten the joke. So now you and Achilles have proven that not only are you dense, you have no sense of humor.

Rick Turley said...

Meade said...

"For efficiency, instead of scattering, you should world the peace around the ice hole."

I'm having a hard time visualizing that.

Inga said...

Blogger Ann Althouse said...
"I figure two raw eggs a day in a meal replacement shake will cover what needs to be covered for the most part."

Well, I sure don't eat raw eggs. I'd be afraid of salmonella.

4/5/18, 11:22 AM

Blogger Achilles said...
A raw egg somehow manages to become a complete living chick after gestastion.

I figure two raw eggs a day in a meal replacement shake will cover what needs to be covered for the most part.

4/5/18, 11:16 AM

Achilles said...
The shells are your only concern. Chicks are not born with salmonella.

Don’t blend the shells in your shake and you don’t even know the eggs are there.

4/5/18, 11:45 AM

Yancy,
The discussion was about SALMONELLA, not the NUTRITION of the egg. Get it? I hope so, since I’m sick of correcting your misperception that the discussion was about the nutritionalal aspect of the egg. Sheesh.



Rick Turley said...

Bad Lieutenant said...

"What was your breakage rate?"

Jack London fan?

"David Rasmunsen was a hustler, and, like many a greater man, a man of the one idea. Wherefore, when the clarion call of the North rang on his ear, he conceived an adventure in eggs and bent all his energy to its achievement. He figured briefly and to the point, and the adventure became iridescent-hued, splendid. That eggs would sell at Dawson for five dollars a dozen was a safe working premise. Whence it was incontrovertible that one thousand dozen would bring, in the Golden Metropolis, five thousand dollars."



http://www.online-literature.com/london/85/

Achilles said...

Inga said...

Achilles point was that SALMONELLA doesn’t kill the contents of the egg, his sentence did not discuss the NUTRITIONAL aspect at all. He wrote it in a way that could be played with, as I did. My comment to him was tongue in cheek, a bit snarky, yes indeed and anyone with a normal sense of humor would’ve gotten the joke. So now you and Achilles have proven that not only are you dense, you have no sense of humor.


This is the entire first post I made, not just the snippet Inga disingenuously posted:

Achilles said...

"A raw egg somehow manages to become a complete living chick after gestation.

I figure two raw eggs a day in a meal replacement shake will cover what needs to be covered for the most part."



Salmonella wasn't a topic until later on when Ann asked a question about it.

You are really a boring and disingenuous idiot. We know you were just trying to be a snarky twat who thought she was being smart. You add nothing intelligent to these conversations.

Yancey was trying to be nice and help you out. One of these times people here will learn about being nice to the scorpion.

rhhardin said...

Eggs keep for months if refrigerated. They're good for hard-boiled (easy to shell - in fact that's what to do if you want hard boiled eggs) but not recipies calling for fresh eggs.

Inga said...

“You are really a boring and disingenuous idiot. We know you were just trying to be a snarky twat who thought she was being smart. You add nothing intelligent to these conversations.”

I isolated your sentence, yes, and made a tongue in cheek comment, at your expense. Unfortunately you are a snowflake with no sense of humor. Man up and grow a thicker skin, you humorless dolt.

Achilles said, somewhat dumbly, “A raw egg somehow manages to become a complete living chick after gestation.”

Salmonella doesn’t kill the chick ( IF the the egg is fertilized). Also salmonella doesn’t kill the chick because salmonella is colonized within the chicken and the fertilized egg and it’s not harmful to the chicken. Unfertilized eggs also carry salmonella WITHIN the egg, not just on the shell as you erroneously said. Do some research before opening your mouth.

“Yancey was trying to be nice and help you out.”

Yancy was trying to help YOU out. He didn’t understand what your point about salmonella was and made an argument based on his misperception of what I was saying.

Gilbert Pinfold said...

In re Salmonella:
Eggs are refrigerated in the US because they are washed with soap and hot water. In most of Europe (except Scandaanvia), eggs are not washed before sale, and are safe to keep at room temperature because the protective coating that is not removed keeps bacteria out, and oxygen/water in. Washing (which is not sterilization), could allow bacteria in through the shell when the protective coat is absent, and allow them to multiply before being cooked. Refrigeration minimizes the replication of bacteria within the egg when washed. For unwashed eggs, it doesn't matter about preventing bacterial replication during storage, even at room temperature. Cracking the shell of an unwashed (but internally Salmonella-free) egg right before cooking doesn't allow enough bacterial replication before the egg hits the hot pan.

Inga said...

“Poultry may carry bacteria such as Salmonella that can contaminate the inside of eggs before the shells are formed. Eggs can also become contaminated from the droppings of poultry.”

https://www.cdc.gov/features/salmonellaeggs/index.html

Inga said...

And if salmonella wasn’t bad enough...

Consumer Reports Finds 71 Percent of Store-Bought Chicken Contains Harmful Bacteria

“YONKERS, NY – Microbiological tests of store-bought chickens, published in the March issue of Consumer Reports magazine, found Campylobacter, a rod-shaped bacterium and the leading cause of food poisoning nationwide, in 63 percent of the chickens tested, while Salmonella was found in 16 percent of the chickens. Those numbers include eight percent of the total number tested that had both Campylobacter and Salmonella. Only 29 percent were free from both. The testing is the most comprehensive of its kind ever published in the US, and uses a sample size of almost 1000 fresh chickens purchased at retail stores in 36 cities.

Public health officials estimate that the annual cost of illnesses caused by Campylobacter is up to $5.6 billion and salmonella is up to $3.5 billion. Campylobacter is responsible for 1.1 to 7 million food-borne infections and 110 to 1000 deaths each year. And Salmonella sickens some 700,000 to 4 million people, though it’s deadlier, killing up to 2000.“

Gilbert Pinfold said...

Inga did not note that the CDC site describes best practices with "backyard eggs", which are unregulated by the FDA. FDA requires sanitary practices in commercial hen management that reduces the potential of oviduct contamination with feces, but then contrarily mandates the egg washing and chlorine spray treatment that strips the cuticle from the egg. This treatment provides the barrier-free entry route for Salmonella, and the FDA requires supply-chain-wide refrigeration from farm to consumer. In Europe, the hens are vaccinated against Salmonella, the cuticle is kept intact, and eggs can be kept on the countertop for 21 days without the contamination rate seen in the US driven by schizophrenic FDA-mandated practices. Fortunately, the US is moving toward the vaccination prophylaxis hen management practices in Europe, and could eventually remove the cuticle-destroying wash and refrigeration requirements.
Ya know, that PhD in Microbiology (and post-doctoral fellowship at UW) in the 80's occasionally is useful...

Inga said...

“Fortunately, the US is moving toward the vaccination prophylaxis hen management practices in Europe, and could eventually remove the cuticle-destroying wash and refrigeration requirements.”

Until then, cook yer damn eggs. Or don’t and take your chances.

Thorby said...

We all need water, but too much water can kill you. It's called drowning.

With regards to vitamins, those that are water soluble, such as the B vitamins or Vitamin C, any excess is dealt with through the kidneys if your metabolism and kidneys are normal. Fat soluble vitamins, such as A, D and E, can accumulate in the body and can lead to over dose. In general, if your metabolism is normal, you are eating a balanced diet, and you are spending time in the sun; there is no need for additional vitamins. If you spend all your time indoors, you are at risk for Vitamin D deficiency. If you have an unbalanced diet, such as a strict vegetarian who doesn't even partake of dairy products, you will develop vitamin deficiencies. Also, if you are pregnant, making sure that you have adequate levels of folate and Vitamin B12 will help reduce the risk of neural tube defects on your child. So, one size does not fit all. You should consult with your physician before taking any vitamins to excess; and your physician needs to know which over the counter drugs you are taking, since they could affect your health and alter the course of any disease that you suffer with.

Howard said...

There's no such thing as a silver bullet. I like Doc Mike's advise. Raw eggs are not as dangerous as non-iceberg lettuce and other greens. It's them Monterrey County feral pigs that shit in the Salinas Valley.

mockturtle said...

We all need water, but too much water can kill you. It's called drowning.

Or hyponatremia. Drinking too much water dilutes one's sodium level and can be fatal.

Curious George said...

Nice thing about getting two surgical infections from my last hip replacement. I've been on three antibiotics for the last year. That chicken a little under done? So what! Raw eggs? Mmmmmmm!

Meade said...

I cried because my eggs might be infertile and germy, 'til I met a man who had 2 surgical site infections. So I said to the man, "Hey, wanna buy some eggs?"

Gospace said...


On eggs- apparently the United States is the only nation that refrigerates them. Prior to patrol or spec op, we used to load cases of eggs in the passageways. If the cooks calculated correctly we wouldn't have to resort to powdered eggs for an entire 72 day patrol. And they never saw the inside of a cooler. Bread would be freshly baked daily, but everything else after 3 days underway would be canned, frozen, or powdered.



On vitamins- the medical establishment has no idea what the optimal level or intake of most vitamins is. They know what the average level is for most vitamins and set that as what's optimum, when it may only be just enough. For Vitamin C they suggested intake level is just enough to ward off scurvy. Which is almost certainly not an optimal intake.



And the medical establishment certainly doesn't pay enough attention to iron levels. Which for most older (but not all) Americans is likely too high. Because everything made of flour is iron fortified. Which has just about eliminated childhood anemia, which is why it was added to begin with. And now diabetes and liver cancer rates are going up. Which are both linked to high iron levels. Read up on hemochromatosis, which I read once was most often diagnosed during autopsy, if performed. You'll get a real good idea of the dangers of high iron. I give blood regularly to keep my iron level down. But everyone is an individual, not a statistic. I have one friend near my age who was prescribed iron supplements. He was diagnosed with anemia. His body doesn't absorb iron well at all.

I take a large amount of supplements daily. I use webmd and examine.com as my primary sources to determine whether taking one will actually do some good, or is just industry hype. And large amounts of Vitamin C and Lysine based on what paulingtherapy.com has on them.

Let's take one controversial supplement- creatine. I take some daily. There are heart doctors that do the same. It is good for muscles. The heart is a muscle. And I discovered that if I do a large amount of physical work using muscles I don't normally use, taking creatine (with large amounts of water) means I'll be tired the next day, but not sore. Taking a lot of creatine with too little water will kill you. And has killed high school and college athletes who didn't bother to learn how to take it correctly.

Do the other supplements work? Well, I'm generally healthier than most other 62 year olds. Which is all I have to go on.

Very little actual medical research has been done on most supplements because most are not patentable, which means a company that spent a huge amount of money on and FDA approved study would be wasting their money- whether the study proved the supplement good or bad. Same with vitamins. The RDA is the amount that's been determined to keep you from showing an obvious symptom of not having enough of a particular vitamin or mineral. There have been no studies to determine what the optimal amount of any of them would be. And even then, it would vary by individual. Iron being the most obvious example.

openidname said...

"Dust Bunny Queen said...

"Too high a dose of anything can cause side effects. Cheese for example."

Mmmmm, cheese . . .

We'd better do study to ascertain the maximum safe dose of cheese. I hereby volunteer to be a research subject.

openidname said...

A thread about vitamins somehow ends up being all about eggs.

The Althouse comment section can be a real crapshoot.

Unknown said...

Vitamins are unnatural and unnecessary in a perfect world, ie as it was made, but you may have noticed we no longer live in a perfect world. There is nothing natural about being indoors and away from sunlight and the bacteria we need to ingest and breathe that’s naturally in the soil we should be spending a lot of time on and around. It also isn’t natural to eat a limited variety of foods, pick them unripened and truck them from California for 5 days, them process most of then, add sugar and all sorts of substances our body has no clue what to do with .. oh also most of our food is grown on huge farms that are so intensively farmed they are depleted of minerals because remember the farming rules God gave the Israelites? Add to that the burden of around 80,000 man made chemicals in our air, water, food, homes, cars etc. of which only a very small number have been tested and quite a few found to be carcinogenic - but don’t worry says Big Business and Big Govt. and you’re worried about overdosing on vitamins?!? Most people ingest/breathe more lead, Mercury, arsenic, cadmium, car exhaust than nutrients.

mikee said...

Dr. Frank Oski, coauthor of the standard reference book on Pediatrics and Head of Pediatrics at Johns Hopkins a few decades back, used the phrase "feeding the fishes" when discussing vitamin supplements. Most of what you ingest in pill form is excreted via the kidneys and only the fish get any benefit from it. Take that, Flinstones for Kids.

Unknown said...

"a few decades back.."?! in the meantime, new organs have been found, the germ theory has been found to be wrong (the basis of widespread prescription antibiotics for decades with disastrous consequences - research rise of superbugs), the human microbiome has been discovered and has been called the equivalent of a Copernican revolution in medicine; also, Flintones vitamins are artificially colored garbage and may be quite dangerous because of synthetic ingredients, additives, and contaminants; so we can pretty much safely dismiss Dr. Oski's assumptions.