"I don't want people to think that I was the Terminator or Superman or anybody like that. I figured if I was going to die, he was going to have to work for it."
That charming speech makes James Shaw Jr., 29, even more of a hero. The man with what CNN calls an assault rifle had already killed 4 persons, and — as the police spokesman put it — Shaw "decided to rush the gunman, actually wrestled that assault rifle away, tossed it over the counter."
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107 comments:
"Charge a gun. Run from a knife."
Good man.
Yep. Charge a long gun, anyway. He had indicated that the shooter had an issue with the rifle for a moment which gave him the opportunity. Thank God for guys like him!
A better option would have been to keep the gun and defend yourself with it, but perhaps he was unfamiliar with how to use a gun. In that case he did the right thing.
I've written this before here. I'm not saying I'd be this brave. I'm not criticizing anyone who didn't.
But I do believe mass shootings will decline steeply after a few in a row that get cut short by the nearest people charging the shooter. (Sort of like airline passengers beating the shit out of the guy trying to light his shoelaces or his underwear fuse.) No, no one should have to do this. It's not a natural act. It's the only thing that works.
Our "Run, hide if you can't run, fight if you must" advice maximizes a given individual's chance of survival. It also ensures the shooter moves unopposed for as long as possible.
Brave man, Mr. Shaw. I'm glad he succeeded. I'm glad he lived.
CCW, always.
I guess I am just really surprised it wasn't a woman who charged the gunman.
#EqualityNow
Die Hard. Great advice.
Have they even caught the gunman yet?
Such honesty. So very rare
Someone learned the lesson of United Flight 93.
NEW INFO about suspected shooter: Travis Reinking was arrested by Secret Service in July for being in restricted area of White House. AR-15 used today had been seized after that, but IL law enforcement returned it to his father who gave it back to Reinking.
-Natalie Allison, via Twitter
UPDATE: Secret Service says Travis Reinking was trying to set up a meeting with President Trump in July when he was arrested outside the White House for unlawful entry.
-Natalie Allison, via Twitter
ggoH
Gahrie: Imagine a black yout chasing after a white guy with a rifle and the cops roll up... instant dead hero.
The father sounds like a real asshole. Hope they get him on something. He deserves jail time.
Even if the white guy is naked?
This article does not mention it, but this gunman only wore a jacket and was naked from the waist down.
Please answer yes or no
NRA member
Father ...?
Son ...?
Democrat
Father ?
Son ?
Waffle House is amazing.
I can’t imagine why his father gave the confiscated AR back to his emotionally disturbe son, only in America
Nobody watches Westerns anymore? Break furniture over his head? Hot pot of coffee? Boiling grease?
R/V -- you just can't help yourself.
Howard said...
"Gahrie: Imagine a black yout chasing after a white guy with a rifle and the cops roll up... instant dead hero."
Gahrie suggested that one might "defend yourself" with the rifle. Not initiate a pursuit. That would probably be ill-advised, perhaps even illegal.
ARM would have pissed himself and hoped the gunman slipped on the puddle.
Courageous and humble. A hero in the truest sense.
When he was one on one with the opponent, he chose to win. That is a man.
While I've never been to that Waffle House, I've been to a bunch of Waffle Houses in the greater Nashville area, so there was a bit of "There but for the grace of God go I" feeling when I read this.
But Mr. Shaw does come across as an impressive human being in a whole heap o' ways, doesn't he?
I like the guy. A courageous example for the rest of us.
roesch/voltaire said...
only in America
Unfortunately, this is almost literally true. Probably in Afghanistan and a few other shit hole countries it might happen as well.
I figured if I was going to die, he was going to have to work for it.
I don't care how big a hero, he should have used the subjunctive "I were."
People often misremember or forget traumatic events, filling in memory blanks with distortions. The brain is stripped down to the fight or flight response and everything else, including the processes involved in memory making, is secondary. The sort of detailed observations that made this young man's speech so colorful and intelligent are lies. So what really happened?!
@RV/ARM,
only in America.
Unfortunately, this is almost literally true.
Well, yes, the rest of the world isn't blessed with the presence of Waffle House as we are here in America.
But, seriously, do you just not keep up with the news from abroad? Shit like this happens all the time in multiple South American & African countries. In China, they don't shoot, they just go on stabbing or hacking sprees. Even Europe now has much more violence from various sources than those of us who grew up through the 20th C tend to think. Even Mexico in our younger days was less violent than the US. Now, per year more people are murdered in Mexico than die from warfare in Iraq.
He is an absolute hero. What an amazing and wonderful response.
The shooter seems to believe that the Illuminati is in control of his world.
Yes! Charge. The. Gun. Man. Run from a knife. Why this isn’t drilled into young men from 14 up is beyond me.
Well done to young Mr. Shaw.
Spiro ... Have you read Kipling on how heroes keep their head?
There really are such men.
R/V, google is your friend. Google “murders per capita per country” and you will find that the USA is not #1. Would have taken you 30 seconds to look smart instead of uninformed.
You could also Google "fathers who screw up" if that is what you thought was only in America.
Nothing wrong with a little enlightened self-interest.
Back in the day; Ft. Polk, Summer 1969, I was trained to charge an ambush. If you hang around in the kill zone you are most definitely going to get smoked. So you charge the gun(s), and try to get through the line.
It's too bad that Mr. Shaw didn't take the weapon from this guy's hand and beat him to death with it---I blame lack of training. But I think the world of Mr. Shaw.
The man with what CNN calls an assault rifle ...
@Althouse, perhaps we commentators have educated you on the issue of what is, and what is not, an assault rifle.
We don't have waffle houses in New England. The few times I had to visit the south I loved Waffle House. So foreign to our brunch spots here.
I felt so middle america when eating there and everyone was really fat. You don't see many fatties here either.
Tits
Jack yes America does not rank as high as some Central American countries for gun violence, but is way below japan or Canada for instance so what is your point? America has a gun problem that I have seen become worse over the course of my own gun owning hunting rifle and shotgun period the last 65 years. For me it seems too many Americans have surrendered a rational approach to gun ownership which I grew up with, and the result these shootings have become a regular occurrence.
I guess it really was an assault rifle . . . at least one of which should be in every household in the US, along with at least one shotgun and one handgun. (See Mel Tappan's classic SURVIVAL GUNS before "Heil" Hogg and the anti-gun Jugend have it banned.) When I read "what CNN calls an assault rifle" I imagined a flintlock blunderbuss.
R/V, if you call trusting Big Brother with determining what means of self-defense you need his permission for, "rational" you don't really know what rational is.
Are you sure about that, Titus? I've seen a Waffle House in Boston. Maybe it closed -- it's been a while.
He's upset he couldn't save more people. Tennessee State U alum. Got bandaged up and in church at 10:00 the next day with his family.
That's a fine young man. And a hero.
“The man with what CNN calls an assault rifle ...”
“@Althouse, perhaps we commentators have educated you on the issue of what is, and what is not, an assault rifle.”
Oh who the hell cares what the weapon was? It could kill a lot of people in a short amount of time. It’s ghoulish how often a killing spree with a gun as the weapon, turns into a discussion on what sort of weapon it was and the correct gun minutia/terminology. Ugh. Disgusting.
As for this young man, wow, he didn’t have a gun and stopped someone with a gun, amazing.
a discussion on what sort of weapon it was and the correct gun minutia/terminology. Ugh. Disgusting.
Ignorance metastasizes.
Guy shoots a lot of people while he is wearing no pants.
No drugs or mental illness involved. Gun is to blame. Sure.
As for this young man, wow, he didn’t have a gun and stopped someone with a gun, amazing.
Yea, I saw this moonbat talking point going around this morning: "Hey, Trumptard myth that it takes a good guy with a gun to stop a bad guy with a gun debunked!"
There is no reasoning with you people.
London is banning knives now.
See Mark Steyn's video-
https://www.steynonline.com/8591/long-night-of-the-knives
R/V: "but is way below japan or Canada for instance"
This begs two questions: Are there any two countries more sheeple that Canada and Japan? And does R/V have any concept whatsoever of why Americans still favor the Second Amendment?
Answers: No and No.
I have also heard that there are many acid attacks in the UK.
In almost any country in the Middle East, the whole restaurant would have been blown to smithereens by someone wanting to kill large numbers.
Ralph, if it was realistic to think he might die, subjunctive is not correct.
A Google search for "New England Waffle Houses" shows that there are, in fact, quite a few of them there although they are not part of the national chain. I don't know, maybe Boston's Hen House Wings and Waffles and Vic's Waffle House in Tewksbury, MA are much more fab than non-MA waffle houses.
The young man is to be commended for his bravery and quick thinking.
London (CNN)There was a record number of acid attacks in London in 2017, police data shows, as perpetrators turn to household cleaning products as weapons.
In response to a freedom of information request by CNN, data from the London Metropolitan Police showed a sharp rise in attacks, with 465 recorded in 2017, up from 395 the previous year and 255 in 2015. The attacks increased six-fold over six years.
https://www.cnn.com/2018/01/26/europe/london-acid-attacks-2017-intl/index.html
Shaw sounds like he's read "Atlas Shrugged". Either that or he's a natural-born objectivist.
"Yea, I saw this moonbat talking point going around this morning: "Hey, Trumptard myth that it takes a good guy with a gun to stop a bad guy with a gun debunked!"
I'm sure the ones saying that would be the first to rush an armed lunatic.
Japanese Americans are also not violent. Go through Americans by ethnicity and the violence rate within their ethnicities somewjat mirrors the violence rate of their ancestors country of origin.
There are some exceptions. Violence crime among Mexican Americans is actually way less than Mexico. Similar for most of the Americans whose ancestors are from central or South America.
People who complain about the relatively high violent crime rate in America are really complaining about the poorest 30% of blacks. But sub Saharan African countries are even more violent.
If 4% of Canada were the poorest blacks from sub Saharan Africa, they would have our violent crime rate.
Japan is safe because it’s almost 100% Japanese people. The violent crime rate in Hawaii is also low.
This shit isn’t a mystery.
Of course, since the US is made up mostly from people who either immigrated here or in their family line someone immigrated here, we’re a different bunch. More risk taking, more violent by nature. The people who stayed behind in Germany or Ireland or zooland, etc. are more passive folks. They don’t even fuck much in Europe anymore. They have to import Muslims because they don’t have their own kids. These are not societies to emulate. Their best people in the last 200 years either came to the US or were liked in wars. What’s left are a bunch of pussies.
France is a joke. The Muslims just slaughter people in a Paris Club or a Cartoon News Publications Officer. The French do nothing. Clint Eastwood’s had to make a movie about 3 Americans who saved the lives of people on a train to Paris that another Radical Islamist tried to strike. The jihadists just plow over people in Southern France. It’s a disgrace what cowards the French are. They learned nothing from their grandparents cowardice.
Anyone who lives in fear of a mass shooting in the US should just commit suicide. There is nowhere that is safe except Japan. And the Jaos ain’t letting you come there. They have made the side decision that it’s better to go extinct as a race/ethnicity than turn their country into another Islamic or African shithole.
If the black inner city ghettoes are eliminated, America has a lower crime rate than Europe.
90% of the violent crime here is committed by 13 % of the population. Actually, about 7% as they are mostly males.
mccullough contends: Japan is safe because it’s almost 100% Japanese people. The violent crime rate in Hawaii is also low.
Sixteenth century Japan was pretty violent and was almost 100% Japanese [a few Portuguese]. Various Scottish clans were always feuding with each other both in Scotland and here in the Appalachians. I agree with your point about homogeneity. Culture clash is always a fly in the ointment of civilization. But people tend to balkanize, be it by clan, by religion or by culture. Look at what is happening here in the US with the political and ideological chasm.
What a Hero! Hope he gets a reward.
I don't understand why someone else didn't pick up the gun and shoot the killer.
I guess he was fleeing and/or everyone was in shock.
And his father gave him guns back.
Thanks Dad!
You killed 4 people.
Denno reports: London is banning knives now.
Hmm. I wonder how the Sikhs in London will deal with that. A Sikh man is required to carry a knife in his boot. Many years ago I worked with a Sikh who was given a special workplace waiver for his knife.
It is heartening that we are hearing more about the hero than about the shooter.
"But I do believe mass shootings will decline steeply after a few in a row that get cut short by the nearest people charging the shooter."
Yeah, well that's true, except most people don't expect someone to pop up from nowhere and start shooting.
And when they do, it takes time to process what's going on, and where the bullets are coming from. At that time, with most peeps, instinct takes over, and they try to flee and/or hide. And most women aren't going to "charge" anything.
You'll notice that the ones who "Charge" usually have some sort of military/police/security background or are large and/or young men.
15,000 get murdered every year.
Probably no more than a 100 die in these publicized mass shootings a year.
Its like Black peeps getting killed by Cops, its absurdly overblown.
When you look at the numbers.
"90% of the violent crime here is committed by 13 % of the population. Actually, about 7% as they are mostly males."
You should be ashamed of yourself Michael.
Math is racist.
Statistics are a tool of White supremacy.
Get woke, dude.
For the victims, RIP.
For the FBI et al, the shooter was a known risk.
Michael K said...
If the black inner city ghettos are eliminated,
You might want to rephrase that.
James Shaw shouldn't ever have to pay for breakfast and coffee again. He deserves honorary customer status.
As for the mass murderer, I hope they kill him. I don't agree with capturing mass killers. They should be dealt with directly. He doesn't need a trial.
We had a guy shoot a cop on a traffic stop. He had 12 gunshot wounds after they caught up with him. That's justice, and it saves taxes.
Whoever gave him the gun should be executed as well. I'm thinking he didn't get it legally.
Just read his father gave him the guns. The guns were taken from the mass murderer after his 2017 arrest near the White House.
Charge the shooter en masse.
Blogger Browndog said...
Have they even caught the gunman yet?
Apprehended in White House, TN if you can believe it.
Blogger exiledonmainstreet said...
"Yea, I saw this moonbat talking point going around this morning: "Hey, Trumptard myth that it takes a good guy with a gun to stop a bad guy with a gun debunked!"
I'm sure the ones saying that would be the first to rush an armed lunatic.
An unarmed good guy Volunteer vs an armed, paid and trained guy with a gun standing outside with his thumbs up his ass.
Blogger Danno said...
In almost any country in the Middle East, the whole restaurant would have been blown to smithereens by someone wanting to kill large numbers.
4/22/18, 9:31 PM
Scattered, smothered and covered.
YoungHegelian said...
While I've never been to that Waffle House, I've been to a bunch of Waffle Houses in the greater Nashville area, so there was a bit of "There but for the grace of God go I" feeling when I read this.
But Mr. Shaw does come across as an impressive human being in a whole heap o' ways, doesn't he?
Elm Hill Pike and Sidco Drive, Holla!
Hagar said...
This article does not mention it, but this gunman only wore a jacket and was naked from the waist down.
4/22/18, 7:03 PM
I've only eaten in one restaurant where I had to borrow a jacket but I did have pants on when I entered.
"Gahrie suggested that one might "defend yourself" with the rifle. Not initiate a pursuit. That would probably be ill-advised, perhaps even illegal."
Very likely illegal. You can do pretty much anything in most states to protect yourself when reasonably threatened with death or great bodily injury, including the use of lethal force. But that privilege ends when the danger ends, and that essentially means when the guy ran out the door, especially if he no longer has the gun, and you do. You are now the one threatening death or great bodily injury, and he could very well be privileged to defend himself with up to lethal force.
From a legal (i.e. not a common sense) perspective, aren't the police more to blame for the gun getting back to the shooter than the father is? Was it the father's gun or the son's?
"Elm Hill Pike and Sidco Drive, Holla!"
So the shooting was near the airport?
It helps A LOT to have a plan for "what if ..." already thought out. You should always be aware of the location of exits (in planes, theaters, malls, churches), be aware of the location of traffic in the lanes on either side of you while you are driving, etc.
At least one pack member, not heard member (as in, we should be a pack, not a herd). Also, he would have passed the Gom Jabbar.
Even if he doesn't think so (thought he was going to die, so he attacked the threat is the best thing to do to protect others).
Francisco D said...
Michael k incorrectly stated: "90% of the violent crime here is committed by 13 % of the population. Actually, about 7% as they are mostly males."
You should be ashamed of yourself Michael.
He should be ashamed because he's incorrect. You should be ashamed, too, because you fell for his bullshit.
Math is racist.
Statistics are a tool of White supremacy.
Get woke, dude.
I guess that's supposed to be clever repartee, perhaps attempted sarcasm, but when you cheer-lead for Michael K you just make a fool of yourself.
Anyway,
Arrests by Race and Ethnicity, 2015
Offense White-Arrests / Black-Arrests
Murder/manslaughter 3,908 / 4,347
Rape 11,809 / 4,907
Robbery 32,439 / 39,052
Aggravated assault 184,024 /92,237
Violent crime 232,180 / 140,543
Other assaults 544,870 / 254,600
So sad.
You still haven't revealed what percentage of the population black or white commits these crimes.
According to FBI stats it is really a very small percentage of the population.
If you adjust for drug use and gang membership the chances of being part of a violent crime is very small.
Michael K's brain rebels violently against facts contrary to its beliefs. To a normal person, making up statistics about black violence in a thread about a white guy killing blacks might look insane, but to Michael K's brain this is the only option.
Caldwell Titcomb IV, non-Hispanic whites made up roughly 62% of the US population in 2015. The percentage of blacks is about 13%. While Michael's figure of 90% is inaccurate, the fact is that blacks are responsible for a pretty substantial number of crimes in the US given their numbers. But as Rusty says, the criminal element (in any ethnic or racial group) is a pretty small percentage of the larger population.
Caldwell,
Michael was referring to AA inner city ghettos, not Blacks in general. Your FBI data (which I will assume to be mostly accurate) does not break down crime by location or SES.
His 90% number may be an exaggeration, but your FBI data does not disprove it.
Nonetheless, over 50% of murders and robberies are committed by AAs. My guess is that other AAs are primarily the victims.
exiledonmainstreet said...
But as Rusty says, the criminal element (in any ethnic or racial group) is a pretty small percentage of the larger population.
MK prefaced his false statement with another false statement,
"If the black inner city ghettoes are eliminated, America has a lower crime rate than Europe." indicating that the 13% referred to were 13% of the population that's black.
And yes, most of those violent crimes, for people of any race, are committed by men aged 16-25 or so. Probably 30-40% of all US murders are committed by blacks of that age, which is what...2 or 3% of the total population?
But almost half of all murders and slightly over 60% of violent crime is committed by whites. The US would still have a higher violent crime rate, especially murder, than (the good parts of) Europe if the black contribution were eliminated.
Europe is big on pickpockets and robbery, and they're catching up in other areas as they become more "diverse". IIRC, the murder rate in London is now higher than in NYC (but NY murder rate is lower than many other US cities).
Run Unz's analysis is worth perusing.
I need to understand who the guns belonged to. The son? Why did the police give the guns to the dad? The dad? Charge him with accessory to murder.
Nobody watches Westerns anymore? Break furniture over his head? Hot pot of coffee? Boiling grease?
Or even "The Three Stooges."
>>Our "Run, hide if you can't run, fight if you must" advice maximizes a given individual's chance of survival. It also ensures the shooter moves unopposed for as long as possible.
Many corporations have this "Run, Hide, Fight" policy.
What do they think will happen while people are running and hiding?
My policy is Fight, Fight, Fight.
LOL. That was quite the refutation of black violence. LOL. Not. Comforting to know that blacks only commit more than have of murders and not 90%.
>>Not initiate a pursuit. That would probably be ill-advised, perhaps even illegal.
A half naked homicidal maniac shoots and kills four people for no reason whatsoever.
Hypothetical: A customer wrestles the gun away, and shoots the lunatic in the back as he's running out the door. Let's take as given that's illegal.
Does he get arrested? And if so, what jury would ever convict him?
UNODC murder rates per 100,000 inhabitants. 2014 or 2015
108.64 El Salvador
063.75 Honduras
011.31 Russia ("bad" Europe)
005.98 Lithuania "
004.88 United States
Cut the US murder rate in half and it's still higher than:
001.58 France
000.99 Denmark
000.92 United Kingdom
000.61 Netherlands
000.56 Norway
000.69 Switzerland
000.51 Austria
(Yes, the US murder rate is 9X higher than Austria's)
It would be useful to see data on murders by strangers. Not gang- or drug-related. In other words, the sorts of murders that the average law-abiding person is the most concerned about. I doubt the US would look so different from western Europe, but it would be interesting to know.
It would be useful to see data on murders by strangers. Not gang- or drug-related. In other words, the sorts of murders that the average law-abiding person is the most concerned about. I doubt the US would look so different from western Europe, but it would be interesting to know.
Yep, all statistics put forth on these topics need careful review.
Recall the statistic that you are most likely to shoot a loved one than a bad guy if you have a gun?
It was based on FBI data that the "victim" was known to the shooter. That morphed into family and friends by the gun grabbers. But in actuality it included a LOT of, "Yeah, I know him, he's the guy selling crack on the corner of 5th and Elm".
OK, Caldwell. Now compare those countries but this time with how many firearms owned per 100,000.
Just once I'd like one of you gun control knuckleheads to come up with a solution that doesn't require the lawful and legal firearm owners giving up their rights.
That may be too difficult.
Blogger JAORE said...
"It would be useful to see data on murders by strangers. Not gang- or drug-related. In other words, the sorts of murders that the average law-abiding person is the most concerned about"
The FBI crime stats tell us that it would be less than half of all other homicide by firearm.
The CDC study tells us that privately owned firearms are used millions of times every year to deter crime. The vast majority of these instances is just showing that you are armed prevents crime.
Blogger Fabi said...
"Elm Hill Pike and Sidco Drive, Holla!"
So the shooting was near the airport?
4/23/18, 5:55 AM
Kind of, but I was just shouting out my favorite Nashville Waffle Houses.
As for this young man, wow, he didn’t have a gun and stopped someone with a gun, amazing. - Inga
Nobody is saying the only way to stop a gunman is with a gun. But smart people would rather be armed when facing a lunatic with a gun as it would greatly increase their chances of survival.
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