Said Rob Schneider, who was on "Saturday Night Live" back when the cast included Dana Carvey, Mike Myers, Chris Farley, Chris Rock, David Spade, and Adam Sandler.
And here's a NYT article published on November 6, 2016, anticipating that evening's "The 2016 S.N.L. Election Special," and going over the way the show had treated everything in the election, which was almost entirely the sort of thing Schneider is talking about. Almost. There was one sketch — and the NYT (before it knew Trump would win the Election) recognized it as the best sketch of the season — “Black Jeopardy!”:
Doug [Tom Hanks], to everyone’s shock, got one response after another right. Prompted with the answer, “They out here saying, the new iPhone wants your thumbprint ‘for your protection,’” he answered, “What is: ‘I don’t think so. That’s how they get you.’”...It's especially interesting to revisit that great sketch this week, when Kanye West has been so conspicuously sending his love to President Trump:
This blue-collar white guy was on the same wavelength as [the black contestants], suspicious of authority, anxious to make ends meet, unimpressed with skinny women. It was cathartic, almost moving. Despite all the vitriol out there, maybe they weren’t all that different?...
This wasn’t just the best sketch of the “S.N.L.” election season. It was some of the best political analysis of the campaign, making a nuanced point about white Trump supporters and minorities, race and economic anxiety. Doug and his black counterparts, it said, have real issues in common — and a real, ultimate difference they may not be able to get past.
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106 comments:
I stopped watching SNL when it became clear they weren't going to make jokes about Obama. There was the occasional sketch with Obama in it, but he'd never be the punch line. They'd bring in Hillary or Bush at the end for the closing joke.
That was when I realized just how racist the SNL cast was.
It seemed to start when Tina Fey was head writer and turned SNL into "Saturday Night Agitprop." Not so unusual now, of course, with left-wing agitprop being the very bone and marrow of late-night comedy; but noteworthy then. Now I've read that Ms. Fey has complained about comedy getting more political than funny. I suppose she feels like Dr. Frankenstein, wondering in dismay what she has unleashed into the world.
The SNL portrayal of George W. Bush, and especially Dick Cheney, was no less harsh and one-dimensionally hateful.
And in fact, SNL used the fantastically talented Darryl Hammond to do that impersonation of Cheney.
Big surprise; SNL's New York writers are liberals, and moreover liberal/progressive humor has worked better than conservative humor, since the time of Charlie Chaplin. No, wait; since the time of Jonathan Swift.
There was one sketch — and the NYT (before it knew Trump would win the Election) recognized it as the best sketch of the season — “Black Jeopardy!”
It was the one time they dove into class distinctions and inadvertently exposed the racial divisions as a distraction to the country's real problems.
You watch the sketch and realize "Poor Jeopardy!" is a better name for the show.
I've tried to watch a couple of Baldwin's sketch of Trump. Schneider is right: there's no comedy, just hate.
the "talking dog likes Trump" is also very good.
In what way, Chuck, was Swift's humor "liberal/progressive"?
William Chadwick said...
In what way, Chuck, was Swift's humor "liberal/progressive"?
You don't think that "A Modest Proposal" was, at its core, a progressive bit of satire?
This is the basic, elemental blurb on "A Modest Propoasl":
"Presented in the guise of an economic treatise, the essay proposes that the country ameliorate poverty in Ireland by butchering the children of the Irish poor and selling them as food to wealthy English landlords. Swift’s proposal is a savage comment on England’s legal and economic exploitation of Ireland. The essay is a masterpiece of satire, with a blend of rational deliberation and unthinkable conclusion, and its title has come to symbolize any proposition to solve a problem with an effective but outrageous cure."
Sorry, I forgot to link the source for that blurb. It's the Encyclopedia Britannica online:
https://www.britannica.com/topic/A-Modest-Proposal
"The SNL portrayal of George W. Bush, and especially Dick Cheney, was no less harsh and one-dimensionally hateful."
Dick Cheney is one-dimensionally hateful.
GeeDub was a terrible president, and he is a war criminal, (as are his predecessors and successors), but, as a person, he seems to have a humanity to him that Cheney lacks. Cheney, like Bolton, is pure malevolence.
William Chadwick: "In what way, Chuck, was Swift's humor "liberal/progressive"?"
Indeed.
LLR Chuck is probably just advancing some lefty narrative he picked up somewhere. He does that reflexively.
"The fun of 'Saturday Night Live' was always you never knew which way they leaned politically."
Anyone who didn't know exactly which way SNL leaned was not paying attention. They may be leaning harder left today but they've always leaned left.
"a real, ultimate difference they may not be able to get past."
So cynical.
You don't think that "A Modest Proposal" was, at its core, a progressive bit of satire?
Whatever it was at its core, "A Modest Proposal" was not anachronistic.
"Literally if you don't go the party line — you're out. There's a real ugliness to it," he explained.
I certainly agree with Rob Schneider here (a sentence I'd never thought I'd write).
I never watch it live anymore. But I'll still occasionally watch the non overtly political sketches that air deeper in the show on Youtube the day after. There were a few funny ones when John Mulaney hosted a few weeks back. The Diner Lobster one was pretty good.
I do a number of celebrity impressions, and a few of them I have down very well. And some 'skits' or short monologues I made up for them.
My Bill Clinton is deadly.
I've been saying the same thing for years - to be a good impressionist, you have to find something likable in your subject. You've got to bring the audience to your subject's side and get them to empathize with them in some small way.
I don't care if you're impersonating Adolf Hitler - you have to find something endearing or sympathetic about the person you're mimicking. If you can't, you lack imagination.
Same thing with cartoonists.
Dick Cheney is one-dimensionally hateful.
Typically featureless and vanishingly small thinking from the one-dimensional Robert Cook.
Yeah, speaking of lacking in imagination.
There was the Brooklyn Bubble skit that was good, and they did one depicting a bunch of people watching the election returns on TV at someone's NYC apartment that was funny, I remember. But that last one was funny in a Schadenfreude kind of way, which isn't the best mindset for comedy.
The only way you can get into the SAG today, is if you are willing to take it in the ass, smile when the producer rapes you, and pay tribute to the Jewish management and their Club Med in the middle east.
Dick Cheney is one-dimensionally hateful... Cheney, like Bolton, is pure malevolence.
Says the one-dimensional commenter.
Cheney was publicly pro-gay marriage before Obama, before Hillary, before all the "hide and seek" progressives too afraid to stand up for what they claim was right. He did it. He never backed down and did not equivocate, unlike Obama and Hillary who shamelessly lied.
Unless of course you believe they both had some sort of "road to Damascus-like" revelation in 2012. Is that what happened to your lovely three-dimensional heroes ARM?
SNL should bring back Tom Hanks for another episode of Black Jeopardy, but who would play Kanye West? Maybe he plays himself ...
Dickin'Bimbos@Home:
"Literally if you don't go the party line — you're out. There's a real ugliness to it," he explained."
The left is getting astonishing support in this from many on the so called "conservative" or LLR side.
Dick Cheney is one-dimensionally hateful... Cheney, like Bolton, is pure malevolence.
Says the one-dimensional commenter.
Cheney was publicly pro-gay marriage before Obama, before Hillary, before all the "hide and seek" progressives too afraid to stand up for what they claim was right. He did it. He never backed down and did not equivocate, unlike Obama and Hillary who shamelessly lied.
Unless of course you believe they both had some sort of "road to Damascus-like" revelation in 2012. Is that what happened to your lovely three-dimensional heroes Cook?
Robert Cook said...
"The SNL portrayal of George W. Bush, and especially Dick Cheney, was no less harsh and one-dimensionally hateful."
Dick Cheney is one-dimensionally hateful.
GeeDub was a terrible president, and he is a war criminal, (as are his predecessors and successors), but, as a person, he seems to have a humanity to him that Cheney lacks. Cheney, like Bolton, is pure malevolence.
Okay!
Here we go, Althousians!
No, President Bush-43 was not a war criminal; Dick Cheney was a great Veep, one of the very best in U.S. history. John Bolton is a totally valuable figure in U.S. foreign policy and I am glad to see him as NSA.
The so-called "torture memos" were solid legal work, by several very good and capable administration lawyers, Professor John Yoo and now-U.S. Judge Jay Bybee. John McCain was wrong, to criticize them. Everybody in congress who criticized them was wrong. Yoo and Bybee have been officially, rightly been exonerated of any wrongdoing in that matter. Of course they have their detractors. Too bad.
Now; where do I stand in promoting the left-wing narrative today? Am I somehow in concert with the Democrats today, Drago?
Trump is actually hard to impersonate because he's so funny himself. Its easy to get the externals right, but hard to get the details correct and the right tone.
SNL had the same with Reagan. They never laid a glove on him, because he was hard to caricature. All they could do is take mean-spirited liberal jibs. OTOH, someone like Bush II was easy to caricature and turn into a dumb cowboy.
"Progressive" in a pre-Wilsonian sense, Chuck. The cause of progress was linked at one time to undoing the chains of statism; now, of course, thanks to the Wilsonian Era "Progressives", the term means "being even more statist than anything we've seen before." Same with "liberal," which once implied being pro-freedom but now means "tax-happy, coercion-addicted, power-tripping government sniffer and State humper."
I doubt that Swift would qualify as a libertarian today; but his "Modest Proposal" and other political writings (of the ones I've read) were written to protest the results of the British Crown's interventions in Ireland's affairs. If that's "liberal/progressive," so is, in its way, Hayek's ROAD TO SERFDOM.
Darryl Hammond's Clinton skits were pretty damn funny, with many memorable lines.
"Jim, let me tell you something - there's gonna be a lot of things we don't tell Mrs. Clinton about. Fast food is the least of our worries."
"The First Lady died early in Independence Day. I loved this movie!"
"I can be Hillary's running mate. I promise to put the vice back into Vice President."
I loved the Trump Dog sketch.
Of course you praise neocon country club Republicans. The ones who only want to lose gracefully so they can go to all the right parties.
That is who you are. A cuck of cucks.
In the United States, there is a certain percentage of the population that has turned away from politics and the partisanship and political "hot" button issues. A large percentage of the eligible population does not vote, and would rather chat about sports, movie, spend time with friends, relax outside.
Increasingly, the political-oriented group in the United States is treating politics like a European soccer match. RED TEAM vs. BLUE TEAM. If you don't agree with everything the TEAM does you're vulnerable to soccer hooligan attacks.
It's politics, so this RED TEAM vs. BLUE TEAM behaviour is, well, bizarre. Rather then the society as a whole looking towards politicians skeptically, there's a trust of their TEAM and a hatred of the other TEAM.
Was looking into visiting Malta, and reading about the culture. It's Malta, but strikes me as bizarrely similar to the USA:
"Maltese tend to take politics seriously..."
"This unfortunately is very true & something that really surprised me when I moved here. People are generally either 'Red or Blue' when it comes to politics here & they support their party as if they are their favourite football team. It's all very bizarre... The current PM is seen as some God like being to Labour supporters & they will not have a bad word said against him, you can imagine they have photos of him by their beds that they kiss goodnight lol... It is even more hilarious at the moment as their is corruption being exposed on an almost daily basis within the Labour party & the PM's right hand man was named in "Panamagate" & the PM refuses to sack him. One wonders what the PM would have to do for his "fans" to want him to resign? Eat kittens? Kill a child? Morph into the Devil? even then I'm sure many would still love him...
Read more: http://www.city-data.com/forum/europe/2569380-malta-bit-conservative-side-loud.html#ixzz5Dss5RQRA
SNL when it was great
The Pepsi Syndrome
And the RR skit with the Girl Scout
And who could forget CC and Pryor?
Its very difficult to categorize Swift in modern ideological terms, indeed it is a bit absurd to try.
A lot that is Swiftean in both Belloc and Chesterton.
Phil Hartmann was a great Clinton. I can't remember almost any SNL about Bush. I vaguely remember the Gore vs. Bush satire in 2000.
Bush II - i always thought he was a complete bore. So, I didn't care.
... I'm glad I'm not the only one flabbergasted someone couldn't tell which way SNL leaned.
-- "Dick Cheney is one-dimensionally hateful."
Kind of a weird thing to say for the guy who was more liberal than Obama on gay marriage.
Yeah there were certain acceptable things that the various SNL impersonations of presidents honed in on over the years.
For Clinton, it was acceptable to mock his southern horn-doggedness. In the pre #MeToo liberal world, satyrism was once thought of as a funny personality aspect, even weirdly admirable, but certainly not something that was damning in any way. That was their way of poking fun of a president they clearly liked without being mean spirited.
For Bush II, Will Ferrell reduced him to a somewhat affable child-like idiot. The SNL writers obviously greatly disliked Bush, but they didn't hate him like they do Trump.
For Obama, they all loved him greatly and were terrified of being accused of any kind of racism. For the liberal SNL writers, I suspect mocking Obama would be somewhat akin the a devout Christian mocking Christ. So they simply portrayed him in a slightly stilted, extremely dull and unfunny way with no overt foibles. It was depressing to watch.
Cheney is an amusing target for hatred by the left. He was working as a lineman after flunking out of Yale on a scholarship. He was working on his PhD when Rusfeld offered him a job.
The left has no idea of how real people live . Lenin hated people in person.
SNL on Bill Clinton and his rapes.
"Bullet proof"
SNL originated out of the National Lampoon's Radio show and stage show, "The Lemmings" (Belushi, Chase, Gilda Radner, Bill Murray, Harold Ramis)
National Lampoon was committed to offending all sides of the political spectrum. Sure,they focused on Nixon and Kissinger, but they also hammered Ted Kennedy with the famous VW ad - "If Senator Kennedy drove a VW, Mary Jo would be alive today."
Over the last 10-15 years, most comedy has become so politically correct, that many famous comedians have stopped going to college campuses (Seinfeld, Larry David, Chris Rock).
So Leftism, once again, is wrecking a fine American institution.
National Change Bank
Puppy Uppers And Doggy Downers
“Jane you ignorant slut”
Emily Litella
Steadily downhill since those days. Now they say “Dead from New York, it’s Saturday Night”
"real issues in common — and a real, ultimate difference they may not be able to get past."
The left's wishful thinking and the progressive wedge on display. We deplorables see no "real, ultimate difference," though we do see the left's repeated attempt to reproduce it and to blame us for it, in the form of "color-blind racism" and all that.
But so far they have gotten their wish: most blacks stay on the plantation, having been successfully baited into thinking whites rage against some "ultimate difference."
They should bring back the guy who played Trump in the Drake parody.
LLR Chuck: "Now; where do I stand in promoting the left-wing narrative today? Am I somehow in concert with the Democrats today, Drago?"
In the same place you always stand: in support of today's lefty narratives.
Oh sure, you are a "real fighter" for long ago fought battles when there is nothing at stake today. That's when you're "true con" colors are let loose!....
...but for any and every battle today, in the heat of the fight, when it matters, you are a safe and secure asset for the left.
But only every single time.
In very much the same way as the left rehabilitates every previous Republican President in order to bash the current one.
In very very much the same as the left.
Very.
Hmmmmm,.....
Nonapod said...
For Obama, they all loved him greatly and were terrified of being accused of any kind of racism. For the liberal SNL writers, I suspect mocking Obama would be somewhat akin the a devout Christian mocking Christ. So they simply portrayed him in a slightly stilted, extremely dull and unfunny way with no overt foibles. It was depressing to watch.
4/27/18, 10:03 AM
I would tend to agree. After all, Hammond's Clinton was hilarious is really the gold standard. Then McKinnon came in a close second with her Hillary impression.
>>And who could forget CC and Pryor?
A classic. Thanks for the chuckle!
"Phil Hartman was a great Clinton." Indeed. Hammond may do a better physical impression (the I-feel-your-pain, lip-biting facial expression, for example); but Hartman got to the essence. And did it with amazing prescience and perspicacity.
I saw an SNL sketch from when Clinton was first running for president--before, even his nomination, when he was one of several candidates--and Hartman had already nailed it. After the election I once heard Garrison Keillor (remember him?) saying that Clinton could never be popular with the Lake Woebegon folks because Clinton reminded them too much of these Southern flim-flam men who would go through the Midwest selling Bibles which, when the rubes would finally get them, were full of misprints, smudged ink and pages falling out. Keillor thought this unfair to Clinton; but of course the hicks of Lake Woebegon sized up Clinton accurately. And Hartman captured perfectly Slick Willy the Southern flim-clam man in all his phony Bible salesman splendor. And long before the rest of us did.
Everyone seems to be missing the major point here.
The political class depends on dividing the people along racial and other identity politics lines.
"What's Wrong with Kansas" tried to make a populist argument vis-a-vis whites, but advanced an economic theory that simply implored whites to join the statist plantation, and called them stupid because they didn't.
Trump makes the point that the interests of the working classes are actually congruent along more conservative lines, a message that has broad appeal among both blacks and whites.
That's why Kanye West, Donald Trump, Diamond & Silk, et al perceived as are such a threat to the establishment and especially Democrats.
"Darryl Hammond's Clinton skits were pretty damn funny, with many memorable lines.
"Jim, let me tell you something - there's gonna be a lot of things we don't tell Mrs. Clinton about. Fast food is the least of our worries."
That was a great skit, but it was Phil Hartman as Clinton, not Hammond.
Matthew Sablan:
It's hard to recognize the lean correctly when you are looking at things as Cook does, upside down.
Well stroked, Ann.
Next category: Can you find Phil Hartman doing the Anal Retentive Chef 'cause I sure can't.
Can we return to Althouse's post? I actually think it is interesting and thoughtful. I do think that with past impressions of Republicans, there was some human warmth that may have been due to Will Ferrell's being an innately nice guy as he did 43, and Dana Carvey's gentleness as he did 41. Ditto, Chevy Chase's Ford. Stumbling and bubmling but not evil-nasty.
The interesting one who is surprisingly less remembered is the brilliant Phil Hartman as Reagan. Where he did a public persona as the amiable old clown, but behind the scenes was a ruthless operator. I can't recall, really, why that impression didn't get more use and more attention during the 80's.
Anyway; I think that one reason that the Trump impression (Alec Baldwin) is so nasty is because unlike Ford, Reagan, Bush41 and Bush43, Trump actually is a nasty, nearly-friendless person. It's part of who Trump is, and so it is part of the impression of him. Impressionists always exaggerate what they think is the essence of the person.
I think that Trump is personally nasty. A man without laughter, as Comey noted. I think Trump has a salesman's/hotelier's generosity. Wants everybody to have a good time, at his party. But is a sociopath in his devotion to himself. And the guy almost writes his own satire, with all of the stupid stuff he says.
Out and proud bias has no sting. I don't think the Left has any understanding of what they've permanently forfeited by abandoning even the show of nuance.
"And the guy almost writes his own satire, with all of the stupid stuff he says."
As I've said, Chuck doesn't hate Trump. He's just sick with envy.
Now; where do I stand in promoting the left-wing narrative today?
Fret not. The day's early.
Now let's discuss your use of a semicolon. . .
...but for any and every battle today, in the heat of the fight, when it matters, you are a safe and secure asset for the left.
So he says, as I praise Gorsuch, Sessions, DeVos, Pruitt, Bolton, McConnell, Pompeo, Francisco, etc.
Dick Cheney, was no less harsh and one-dimensionally hateful.
No human being is one-dimensionally anything.
To state otherwise is to attempt to dehumanize them.
And in doing so, you give permission for others to treat you similarly.
CG - yes, my bad. 'Twas indeed Hartman. Still a killer (and prescient) skit, though.
Will Ferrell's being an innately nice guy as he did 43, and Dana Carvey's gentleness as he did 41. Ditto, Chevy Chase's Ford. Stumbling and bubmling but not evil-nasty.
That was when the President might have been from the other party.
Today we live in the time of the Resistance(tm) and Not My President(tm).
Moreso we make them the required positions for many jobs in media and entertainment.
"The so-called 'torture memos' were solid legal work, by several very good and capable administration lawyers, Professor John Yoo and now-U.S. Judge Jay Bybee. John McCain was wrong, to criticize them. Everybody in congress who criticized them was wrong. Yoo and Bybee have been officially, rightly been exonerated of any wrongdoing in that matter. Of course they have their detractors. Too bad."
I don't know how "solid" it was, but taking your characterization of it as true simply for argument's sake, there has been plenty of "solid legal work" that is or has been wrong and which has ratified official criminality.
Our torture program was/is criminal, and it's perpetrators are criminals.
The reason SNL is no longer "even handed" is because it doesn't have to be. Like Late Night Talk Shows, they can write off 1/2 of the USA and still make plenty of $$. Of course, they could make more money with a bigger crowd, but they don't care.
Wow, liberal "businessmen" willing to make less money to make a political point.
I guess the economists were wrong.
LLR Chuck: "So he says, as I praise Gorsuch, Sessions, DeVos, Pruitt, Bolton, McConnell, Pompeo, Francisco, etc."
LOL
Yeah, those were really substantive battles where the outcome was in doubt.....NOT!
When it comes to policy, demeaning the republican base, attacking conservative media, using the same useful idiot language advanced by the left to characterize every ongoing battle., you are in perfect lefty alignment.
Hillarious.
With every posting you solidify the observation and point.
Keep it up big boy. Stabenow is counting on you in MI.
" you have to find something endearing or sympathetic about the person you're mimicking. If you can't, you lack imagination"
did you Ever see him touch a scrap of meat?
and Yeah, he conquered all those countries; but they were week, and he was strong
a little too ambitious, Maybe
but he never loved Eva Braun
Kevin said...
Dick Cheney, was no less harsh and one-dimensionally hateful.
No human being is one-dimensionally anything.
To state otherwise is to attempt to dehumanize them.
And in doing so, you give permission for others to treat you similarly.
I didn't say Cheney was one-dimensionally hateful. I said that the SNL portrayal of him was. I thought maybe you were replying to Mr. Cook; he -- very much unlike me -- seems to have a very negative view of Vice President Cheney. But it looks like you were quoting me, not him. The comma after "Dick Cheney" gives it away. If I'm mistaken in this, fine; I am still glad to make myself clear about the great many Republicans who are heroes to me and the handful who aren't.
LLR Chuck: "he -- very much unlike me --"
LOL
Wink wink...
I remember when Will Ferrell appeared as Bush II as part of the Concert for New York after 9/11. Still a boob, but "our" boob, doing a "You just might be a terrorist" bit. And this hip NYC crowd, I got the impression, was cheering not just Ferrell's comedy, but the real Bush, hoping he would in fact unleash Hell upon the gang that had ravaged our city.
Robert Cook; you won't convince me of your point of view on Bush Administration "torture." I'm guessing that I won't convince you of my view, either.
However, I am happy to engage with you -- more than happy, really -- because as you see here on these pages on a regular basis, I am accused of being a leftist, a Democrat, a Soros stooge, et cetera, all because I criticize Trump.
I am none of those things -- not leftist, not Democrat, not "progressive" in any sense -- and the differences between you and I illustrate that pretty effectively.
Moreover; between the two of us, we probably share very little in terms of policy or political agreement. But we disagree without personal attacks on each other, questioning the other's profession, who they voted for, what their true affiliations are, etc.
That is the difference between you and me, on the one hand, and the Trump cultists on the other hand.
Re: Black Jeopardy. Most blacks believe that the US government assassinated Martin Luther King.
There is an interesting paper on the tendency of blacks to believe in conspiracy theories more than whites (who would be the conspirers) here: http://journals.sagepub.com/doi/pdf/10.1177/01461672992511003
I didn't say Cheney was one-dimensionally hateful.
I was referring to Cook, who stated your interpretation of the performance as the truth.
That is the difference between you and me, on the one hand, and the Trump cultists on the other hand.
So in defending Bush against other's allegations you are a Bush cultist?
rocean said: Like Late Night Talk Shows, they can write off 1/2 of the USA and still make plenty of $$.
It's the media in general. The Washington Post and NYTimes have been flooded with new online subscribers since the election, large because they want to hear the party line. The Times' new editorial editor has been trying, in his way, to bring back a semblance of broader discussion, and the choir doesn't want to hear it.
I assume there are right-wing versions of same, but I've stopped paying attention.
Despite all the love for the Black Jeopardy skit, remember if it had been created by a conservative group it would be cited as evidence of racist hate speech and the creators would be hounded until they offered an apology and then fired from their jobs.
That is the difference between you and me, on the one hand, and the Trump cultists on the other hand.
What a shocker! A member of the GOP Establishment telling a Lefty he prefers him to the Republican base!
Oh where is my fainting couch?
I am surprised the article, given the topic, made no mention of Jim Downey. He was a main writer in the show for decades and was responsible for most of its politically-oriented humor. During Norm Macdonald's tenure on the Weekend Update segment, he and Downey essentially wrote each week's segment without the input of the other cast or writers. Downey has identified himself as a "conservative Democrat" and has also been described as others as pretty conservative. But Downey was also incubated in the whole Harvard Lampoon milieu and so if I were to guess is probably a fairly moderate guy, which allowed him to play so well against each of the two political sides.
Robert Cook - what decides what is “criminal”? Law. That’s it. If the law says it’s OK, then by DEFINITION, it’s not criminal.
You’re confusing morality with legality.
John Yoo did not create new law, he merely provided an interpretation of existing law that magically made torture into not-torture, and therefore, legal.
There was the Brooklyn Bubble skit that was good, and they did one depicting a bunch of people watching the election returns on TV at someone's NYC apartment that was funny.
This one with Dave Chappell and Chris Rock? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SHG0ezLiVGc
"This is the most shameful thing America has ever done!"
*Chappell and Rock look at each other, then laugh uproariously*
Yeah, and it was really more honest than most anything recently.
Uh, the law defines what “torture” is. What is your definition, and tell me where in “law” it resides?
SNL’s “The Bubble,” which ran ten days after Trump was elected, is chock full of crunchy delicious satiric goodness, proving SNL can do it if they want. The problem is that they don’t really want . . . very much.
In The Bubble, life continues for progressive Americans as if the election never happened.
10:11 AM
Blogger TerriW said...
They should bring back the guy who played Trump in the Drake parody.
I was 100% Trump by then, but after that skit I knew he had a good chance of winning. I'm sure SNL thought it'd work against Trump, but it did the opposite, showing his fun (and a rare almost self-deprecating) side. The skit with Ivanka as "Secretary of Interior Design" was pretty funny too.
"Jen Rubin republican" Chuck: "I am none of those things -- not leftist, not Democrat, not "progressive" in any sense -- and the differences between you and I illustrate that pretty effectively."
It's true.
LLR Chucks complete and total alignment with democrat talking points is entirely inadvertant.
Every day.
Every single time.
"accidental" even.
It consistently amazes me that the SNL writers do not see the value of balance. I am sure that Ann remembers "This Land is Your Land" the hilarious little cartoon by JibJab during the 2004 elections. It poked fun at both Bush and Kerry and everybody loved it.
"Uh, the law defines what 'torture' is."
Yes, it does.
There's U.S. law.
There's also the UN Convention on Torture, to which we're a party.
Given that we clearly committed torture as defined by law, Yoo's legalistic legerdemain served only to supply the Bush/Cheny Administration with a laughably inadequate cover behind which to hide, allowing them to deny our torture was torture. (Laughable, that is, except for the suffering we inflicted on bound and helpless captives.) They got away with it not because Yoo's bullshit was valid, but only because no one had the guts to challenge them on it. They're all therefore complicit in our torture regime. ("They" being: all in government who stood by silently.)
@Drago, good point comparing Chuck to Jen Rubin. Rubin was merely a pretend conservative on her best day, and the Post finally admits that she isn’t really conservative st all. However they do claim she’s “center-right,” which she is only by contrast with the Post’s own left-wing extremism. Notably, Jen has been forced to flip-flop on issues like moving the US embassy to Jerusalem, lest she find herself agreeing with something done with the evil Donald Trump. No idea what Chuck has flipped on lest he be forced to admit Trump got something right. Nor do I much care.
I do note that Chuck not only hates Trump, but regards a portrayal of Ronald Reagan as an amiable old clown as being spot-on. Odd kind of life-long Republicans they grow in Michigan.
Big Mike: "Odd kind of life-long Republicans they grow in Michigan."
We call them "Stabenow Republicans".
Lifelong, naturally.
Haven't watched SNL since Wayne's World was a feature. Watched it pretty regularly from its inception, through Eddie Murphy and Joe Piscipo and then the early '90s.
From what I understand now, it's nothing more than hyper-partisan, left-wing shit. Who needs more of that?
As Bay Area Guy notes, National Lampoon--the magazine, the radio hour (which I loved) and the stage show "Lemmings" (which I did not see, but I understand mocked a lot of the Sixties Counter-culture)--was a big influence and recruiting grounds (Belushi, Chevy Chase, Gilda Radner, et al) for SNL. One of the major writers and editors over at NatLamp was "pants down Republican" and future out-of-the-closet libertarian P.J. O'Rourke, who helped keep the ideological balance at NatLamp but as far as I know had nothing to do with SNL--and it showed. Someone once commented that unlike a lot of Jewish, neurotic, self-doubting humor (which lends itself well to the masochistic streak in "liberalism"), the NatLamp gang was largely WASP and Irish. They had an attitude best summarized by the punchline in a NatLamp story: "F**k me? No . . . f**k YOU."
It's always amused me how "liberals" react when satire is directed against them. I once heard (on NPR, natch) Red Diaper Baby Tony Kushner complaining about some satire Rush Limbaugh did about "liberals." Encapsulated, his complaint was, "Hey, satire is OUR weapon! No fair when reactionaries use it!" Likewise left-winger and former NatLamper Tony Hendra, in his very entertaining history of Sixties and Seventies humor, THAT'S NOT FUNNY, THAT'S SICK, complaining about the apostate O'Rourke. Hendra's complaint could be summarized as . . . well . . . "That's not funny, that's sick!"
As Jean Shepherd once noted, "Satire isn't about only making fun of people you disagree with."
Big Mike said...
@Drago, good point comparing Chuck to Jen Rubin. Rubin was merely a pretend conservative on her best day, and the Post finally admits that she isn’t really conservative st all. However they do claim she’s “center-right,” which she is only by contrast with the Post’s own left-wing extremism. Notably, Jen has been forced to flip-flop on issues like moving the US embassy to Jerusalem, lest she find herself agreeing with something done with the evil Donald Trump. No idea what Chuck has flipped on lest he be forced to admit Trump got something right. Nor do I much care.
I do note that Chuck not only hates Trump, but regards a portrayal of Ronald Reagan as an amiable old clown as being spot-on. Odd kind of life-long Republicans they grow in Michigan.
ANSWER 1: I haven't flipped on any issue, in the age of Trump. I haven't even changed my opinion of Trump. He's still an asshole. Trump has changed his views on assault weapons, abortion, health care, taxes, and too many other things to list.
I haven't changed my views on any of those things.
ANSWER 2: I never had a view of Reagan as an amiable old clown. I recalled that that was precisely half, of a Reagan impression that Phil Hartman did. It was an SNL sketch-theme. Not my theme. I don't even know what the late Phil Hartman thought of Reagan! They were comedy sketch scripts.
How did you manage to screw that up? The blood in your eyes -- or wherever -- when you see my name on the computer screen must cloud your vision.
"Laughable, that is, except for the suffering we inflicted on bound and helpless captives"
But not any "suffering" is torture. Waterboarding does not cause "prolonged mental harm."
It application was limited and therefore did not constitute a "regime."
Of course, in a system that has made a mockery of the "rule of law," in a world where our adversaries do not reciprocate, I would support a deviation from "the law" used specifically to elicit actionable information for the purpose of saving American lives.
"I believe Durbin" republican Chuck: "I haven't even changed my opinion of Trump. He's still an asshole."
Filed under words never used by LLR Chuck to describe dems/lefties: a**hole
Feel free to draw obvious conclusions.
Drago said...
Big Mike: "Odd kind of life-long Republicans they grow in Michigan."
We call them "Stabenow Republicans".
She's a dunce. And a joke. And a waste of space. In the year 2000, I told everyone I knew, "There are a lot of big things on the ballot; for us in Michigan, the most important vote, by far, that you will cast, is in the Senate race between Spence Abraham and Debbie Stabenow. You have got to be sure to vote for Spence."
Gore carried Michigan, 51% to 46%. (It was predictable, that Michigan would go blue that year.)
Stabenow beat Abraham by a single percentage point, 49% to 48%. A 67,000 vote majority, out of 4 million votes cast.
What happened next, was that Abraham's Senate office staffers, including one Ann Coulter, had to find new jobs.
LLR Chuck: "She's a dunce. And a joke. And a waste of space."
So you'll just have to work extra hard to get her over the line.
Trust me, we all know you're up to it.
Drago said...
"I believe Durbin" republican Chuck...
I told you before, you dickhead; "I believed" Durbin on one thing. I believed that Durbin told the truth about Trump's "shithole countries" comment.
Now you can tell everybody who ever said, "No, Durbin is wrong. I heard every word, and Trump never said, 'shithole countries'." The White House would only say, "strong language was used." Senator Cotton was reduced to saying, "I didn't hear that." Secretary Nielsen also said she didn't hear it. Nobody denied it. And of course, in one form or another Senators Graham, Scott and Flake all confirmed it, in addition to Durbin.
Chuck's on every single fucking thread, trying to be the center of attention.
Jumping up and down like a jack in the box.
Relax - Chuck.
How does one decide to believe none of what Durbin says but then hear a single thing Durbin says and decide that one particular thing is -- despite all the other falsehoods -- the one thing that you decide is truthful?
I cannot understand how that could ever work. I am quite sure no logical process can get a person from that particular A to that particular B.
"How does one decide to believe none of what Durbin says but then hear a single thing Durbin says and decide that one particular thing is -- despite all the other falsehoods -- the one thing that you decide is truthful?
I cannot understand how that could ever work. I am quite sure no logical process can get a person from that particular A to that particular B."
Chuck may or may not be a lawyer, but Birkel is clearly a superior prosecutor.
Birkel said...
How does one decide to believe none of what Durbin says but then hear a single thing Durbin says and decide that one particular thing is -- despite all the other falsehoods -- the one thing that you decide is truthful?
A) Because "shithole countries" sounds exactly like something Trump would say.
B) Because, as already mentioned, people whom I trust -- Republicans -- basically confirmed all of it.
C) Because Trump, who would never hesitate to spell it out if somebody got something wrong about him, and who would never hesitate to own an un-p.c. statement if he thought it might do him some good, never had the guts to say, "Yeah, I said it because it is true," and nobody else had the chutzpah to just flat out lie and say, "The president did not say those words." They fudged it. "Strong language was used." Yeah; the strong language was "shithole countries." Which, we should all recall, was something that delighted at least half of TrumpWorld. "Damn right!" was the TrumpWorld reaction. "Trump said it because it was true!"
We found out in an Esquire profile, that John too carefully examined a decAdes worth of European court of human rights decisions to come up with his guidelines.
Rob Schneider - the least talented/funny one of that bunch.
Why wouldn't the material direct more toward/against Republicans? They've become as exceedingly powerful as they've become a self-parody.
Alec Baldwin's Trump impersonation is exactly right. It's Trump who has no humor and oozes hatred, grievance, vengeance, sneer, insecurity and condescension. Baldwin captures all the ways Trump conveys those things perfectly. He is chock full of them and has no room in his personality for anything else. So Baldwin contorts his face to replicate the only things in Trump's that ever come across.
"'Laughable, that is, except for the suffering we inflicted on bound and helpless captives'
"But not any 'suffering' is torture. Waterboarding does not cause 'prolonged mental harm.'"
But it caused intense suffering for its duration, committed by persons acting under the color of law upon other persons within their custody and physical control, (and it did generate terror of it being reapplied to those who endured it). Plus, waterboarding was not the only torture inflicted.
(1) “torture” means an act committed by a person acting under the color of law specifically intended to inflict severe physical or mental pain or suffering (other than pain or suffering incidental to lawful sanctions) upon another person within his custody or physical control;
"It application was limited and therefore did not constitute a
'regime.'"
Says who? Many forms of torture were applied to many of our captives in many places in out war of terror. It wasn't just "three or four" people who were waterboarded, or whatever the preposterous lie was that the Bush/Cheny thugs put forth. People died under torture we inflicted.
I realize, President Pee pee (gosh, what a clever pseudonym! Maybe YOU should be writing for SNL!) that the reason more satire isn't directed toward Democrats is that satirists are and generally have been of the Left, writing agitprop for "the Hive." (Although it's always struck me as odd that people who see themselves as free-swinging rebels and free spirits should be lockstep members of the Cult of the State.) But certainly the Democrats offer numerous targets for satire. Take Bernie the Bum, aka Bolshie Bernie, a guy with a grasp of economics on a level with a dead one-year old, trying to sell us various economic nostrums. Surely such a mountebank could inspire some good zingers. You could have a reporter asking Bernie (Larry David) how his $15.00 minimum wage plan would conflict
with the Law of Supply and Demand. As the camera closes in on Grandpa Trotsky's bewildered facial expression--in comes the Curb Your Enthusiasm theme!
But why pick on Bolshie Bernie? Pelosi, Queen Cacklepants, Magic Hat Kerry, Red Diaper Barry, whatever Kennedy isn't dead, Darth Soros--the Dems are overrun with enough zanies and bunco steerers to keep satirists
employed until Princess Chelsea's second term.
‘You kinda assumed they leaned Left or liberal’.
Rob, the fact that you think the shows politics weren’t apparent from the very 1st season shows a a gross lack of situational awareness.
Proud to say I haven’t watched that crap-fest in over 30 years.
The fun of SNL never had anything to do with politics at all. I was 12 when SNL began. They were all too young and we didn't even comprehend politics yet. The fun was simply fun! I am too political now and it is NOT fun. Bad News Bees, Cone Heads, Mrs Lubner... AND of course the unknown musical experiences like Elvis Costello, Edie Brikell, Randy Newman - all sorts. And the KNOWNs like Pual Simon and Garfunkel and Stones and even McCartney... Politics are NOT fun. Belushi Akroyd, et al WERE VERY fun! The most political thing I recall was a Nixon/Kissinger skit "pray with me Jewboy". I'm not at all anti-Semitic - that was simply fun and funny and no one thought bad things about the Jewish. It was simply funny and fun and long live the Red Skins!
I know Jewish people that Laugh their Asses off at that skit. One of 'em my best friend. No ONE is smaller than the person who cannot laugh at oneself. No one means anything personally in those skits.
Politics are absurd... or at least they were
The fun of SNL never had anything to do with politics at all. They were all too young and we didn't even comprehend politics yet. The fun was simply fun! I am too political now and it is NOT fun. Bad News Bees, Cone Heads, Mrs Lubner... AND of course the unknown musical experiences like Elvis Costello, Edie Brikell, Randy Newman - all sorts. And the KNOWNs like Pual Simon and Garfunkel and Stones and even McCartney... Politics are NOT fun. Belushi Akroyd, et al WERE VERY fun! The most political thing I recall was a Nixon/Kissinger skit "pray with me Jewboy". I'm not at all anti-Semitic - that was simply fun and funny and no one thought bad things about the Jewish. It was simply funny and fun and long the Red Skins!
I know Jewish people that Laugh their Asses off at that skit. One of 'em my best friend. No ONE is smaller than the person that cannot laugh at oneself. No one means anything personally.
Politics are absurd
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