April 5, 2018

"One 23-year-old [Grindr] user told me that the only places he can find gay men are clubs and Grindr, and both are hyper-sexualized."

"The cultures of both intimidate him. According to [John Pachankis, an LGBTQ mental health expert at the Yale School of Public Health], gay culture is often 'status-focused, competitive, hierarchical, and exclusionary.' He explains that these traits are common among men generally, but in the gay community, they become amplified in a group that 'both socializes and sexualizes together.' The 23-year-old is afraid of rejection and Grindr shields him from the pain of in-person turndowns. 'My framework now is sex first. I don’t know how to date people in person.'...  Another user told me he downloaded the app hoping to find a husband. Now he says that when he and a boyfriend (he’s gone through several) fight, his natural response is to open Grindr to 'find an alternative' instead of working through problems."

From "We need to talk about how Grindr is affecting gay men’s mental health/I’m a gay psychiatrist. Here’s why I went on Grindr to survey men"  by Jack Turban, MD, is a physician and medical writer at Harvard Medical School.

Most interesting line for those of you who are not gay: "these traits are common among men generally."

139 comments:

Luke Lea said...

The trouble with male homosexuality is there are no brakes.

Ignorance is Bliss said...

...these traits are common among men generally.

Wow. It's almost as if Jordan Peterson knows what he is talking about.

Bob Boyd said...

These traits are common among people generally.

Achilles said...

“gay culture is often 'status-focused, competitive, hierarchical, and exclusionary“

It is almost as if there is a balance and a social contract between men and women...

In the end though I think this is more about being young than being gay. My guess is older gay men who are more mature have a better grasp on life just like older straight men and women.

It would seem we will be swinging back to Victorian sexual standards sooner rather than later...

mockturtle said...

When a woman I once knew bemoaned the fact that she always ended up with the wrong men, I observed that maybe bars were not the best place to meet the right men.

langford peel said...

It must be a tough life to be a sexual deviant. Sad.

tcrosse said...

My guess is older gay men who are more mature have a better grasp on life just like older straight men and women.

Guess again.

Trumpit said...

"The trouble with male homosexuality is there are no brakes."

The problem with heterosexuality is there are no brakes. The proof is the nearly 7 billion people alive on earth today - nearly all a product of a well-known heterosexual sex act.

Sebastian said...

Is Grindr "exclusionary"?

Trumpit said...

"It must be a tough life to be a sexual deviant. Sad."

In the future, please keep your sad sexual deviancy to sad yourself.

Achilles said...

Trumpit said...
"The trouble with male homosexuality is there are no brakes."

The problem with heterosexuality is there are no brakes. The proof is the nearly 7 billion people alive on earth today - nearly all a product of a well-known heterosexual sex act.

I originally thought you were a moby trying to make the leftists look stupid and drum up drama. The last two days are leading me to think you actually mean it and posts like this just show you are stupid.

I would still guess you are performance art though.

Sebastian said...

"these traits are common among men generally."

The traits may be common, but they are distributed and expressed differently.

I thought the point of being gay was not to be like the boring hetero squares?

Jerry Goedken said...

Who knew, instant gratification has negative social implications?
…but in the gay community, they become amplified in a group that “both socializes and sexualizes together.” That seems to be the more telling line, along with the suicide rate and the chart showing those happy or unhappy based on their web viewing sites.

Freeman Hunt said...

Ah, traits often said by commenters to be expressed more in women. What say you commenters now?

Larry J said...

mockturtle said...

When a woman I once knew bemoaned the fact that she always ended up with the wrong men, I observed that maybe bars were not the best place to meet the right men.


There's a classic demotivational poster that reads something like this, "The common denominator in all of your dysfunctional relationships is you."

Expat(ish) said...

My wife the sociologist has often observed how the Boy Scouts organize around age, ability, and persona.

Just like in the office.

I'd be curious to know if this "can't date" problem is supposed to be knew. When i was in the theater in the 80's and most of my friends were gay, it wasn't always like that. Sure, they got laid a *lot* more than I did, with more partners and better drugs, but, actually, I got no but clause to end with.

-XC

Trumpit said...

@Achilles,

You are a degenerate troll. Call me "stupid" if it makes you feel better.

Lewis Wetzel said...

It is extremely difficult to find the info online, but both male and female homosexuals are appallingly promiscuous -- legally "married" or not. The number of gays -- again, male and female -- who expect sexual exclusivity within marriage is small. The problem with SSM is that same sex couples don't want marriage as traditionally defined with regard to sexuality. They want a civil partnership. Gay marriages are not the same as traditional marriage, calling it "marriage" doesn't make it marriage.

mockturtle said...

Anyone who has read And the Band Played On got a view of the unhealthy, promiscuous nature of many homosexual men, documented very honestly by one who, himself, succumbed to AIDS. It was a courageous act by Randy Shilts to take on the downside of the 'gay lifestyle'. Having had several close gay friends in that era, I can say that it was no exaggeration.

tim in vermont said...

My question is did she “bemoan the fact” or did she ‘bewail’ the fact?

Geoff Matthews said...

Women civilize men. If you have no use, or desire, for women, why become civilized?

tim in vermont said...

If you have ever had anybody close to you grow up a gay man in today’s world, this stuff is not news.

mockturtle said...

Tim in Vermont asks: My question is did she “bemoan the fact” or did she ‘bewail’ the fact?

Actually, it was too long ago to accurately remember. ;-) But she both moaned and wailed quite a bit, IIRC.

Achilles said...

Trumpit said...
@Achilles,

“You are a degenerate troll. Call me "stupid" if it makes you feel better.“

It doesn’t make me feel better it is more of an observation.

The leftist contributions on this blog have degenerated precipitously over the last two years. You were more fun when you had a sense of humor about being called a moby. I still think you are a moby.

I Have Misplaced My Pants said...

My guess is older gay men who are more mature have a better grasp on life just like older straight men and women.

My husband was teasing his 60-something, retired gay brother about the latter's practice of roaming the country in his giant RV with a series of barely-legal boy toys. His response was "If you straight guys could get away with it you know you'd do the same damn thing."

tim in vermont said...

Women civilize men. If you have no use, or desire, for women, why become civilized?

I always say that if it weren’t for the need to impress women we men mostly would happily live in shacks by the river fishing, drinking, and playing poker. Since we did need to impress women, we built civilization.

Dave said...

Those look exactly like male traits to me. I see it everywhere. Achilles, Chuck, etc. seem exactly like that.

Hammond X. Gritzkofe said...

If the guy ain't happy with what he is finding at Grindr, perhaps he should look elsewhere.

Possible that the guy is not actually a homosexual; just got pulled in by the proliferation of pro-queer presence in news/entertainment media.

Trumpit said...

@mockturtle,

Save your homosexual bigotry for your bible study class. Venereal diseases, such as syphilis and gonorrhea, caused many deaths before the discovery of antibiotics, such as penicillin, first used in 1942, just in time for WWII. You probably had sex with a few GI's back then, so you were fortunate not to be infected, and that a treatment was available if you were.

YoungHegelian said...

@LW,

Gay marriages are not the same as traditional marriage, calling it "marriage" doesn't make it marriage.

One problem I've always had with the gay liberation movement is that it's real big on rights & real short on responsibilities. Think about it: Who among gay rights advocates writes of what constitutes a "virtuous" (in the Stoic, not sexual sense) gay life? It was almost as if "Well, just be yourself" was going to produce a virtuous outcome, which is not true for anybody, not just homosexuals.

One who tried, in my opinion, was the gay conservative Bruce Bawer in his book Place At The Table. Maybe, though, the concept of a virtuous life is so moribund in modern society in general that it's unfair to ask the gays to consider the question in regards to their own lives.

Achilles said...

tim in vermont said...
“If you have ever had anybody close to you grow up a gay man in today’s world, this stuff is not news.“

My experience is young gay men get wrapped up by relationships just like young straight men do. There is just a lot more sex as you would expect from two people who have no social/emotional breaks or any reasonable fears of pregnancy to hold them back.

I saw enough young GIs overseas lose their shit overseas after finding out about a cheating girlfriend at home.

Humans somehow developed in a way where they were most happy pairing for life with infidelity existing on the periphery. The striking disparity between kids in two parent homes and single parent homes probably had even more abrupt consequences when we were developing as a species.

SGT Ted said...

"The trouble with male homosexuality is there are no brakes."

It's about rampant promiscuity in the gay scene that is absent in the hetero community. The proof is the epidemic of AIDS that devastated the male homosexual community in the 1980s and the lack of a similar epidemic in the heterosexual community. Even Randy Schilts pointed this out in his book "And the Band Played On."

David said...

"these traits are common among men generally."

Nothing like dueling generalizations to make conversations useless.

Francisco D said...

"My husband was teasing his 60-something, retired gay brother about the latter's practice of roaming the country in his giant RV with a series of barely-legal boy toys. His response was "If you straight guys could get away with it you know you'd do the same damn thing."

At first blush, the idea of coupling with nubile young college girls seems appealing. Then I remember what sex was like when I was that age.

I don't have the time to teach them what they need to know. Well ... maybe I could be inspired under the right circumstances.

n.n said...

Transgender, "=" and exclusive, a club in Florida. A mother, a female partner, and an absentee father. Humanitarian pornographers reducing women and men to their parts and function. Female chauvinists and diversitists reducing human life to colorful clumps of cells. The social liberals have normalized this dysfunctional progression.

DKWalser said...

I fell bad for the young man. If he believes that an overwhelming majority of gay men have romantic relationships that are anything like the stereotypical male/female relationship, he's been misled. The typical gay man has more sexual partners in a week than a straight man may have in a year.

SGT Ted said...

Venereal disease was far more rampant in the gay community than in the heterosexual community prior to the AIDS epidemic as well. It isn't homophobia to point this out. It's just epidemiology. That is discussed in Randy Schilts book as well.

Fernandistien said...

Bob Boyd said...
These traits are common among people generally.


These traits are common among social mammals.

n.n said...

Transgenderism, whether homosexual, bisexual, or whatever, has specific physical and mental effects, that cannot be extrapolated or generalized in "color" (diversity) judgments. It's ironic, but predictable of a Pro-Choice religion, that homosexuals' demand to normalize has forced a state of "=" (or exclusion) that is critical of others in the transgender spectrum. Leverage before principles.

n.n said...

disease was far more rampant in the gay community

The male transgender community is especially vulnerable, but so are couples that indulge in transgender acts. The rectum is part of the digestive system. Socially liberal behavior increases the probability of infection and transmission.

Mike said...

Those traits are applicable to human beings in general. Are there people anywhere on Earth that do not show evidence of these traits?

J. Farmer said...

@Lewis Wetzel:

It is extremely difficult to find the info online, but both male and female homosexuals are appallingly promiscuous -- legally "married" or not.

What is your source for the claim that lesbians are "appallingly promiscuous." I am not necessarily opposed to the notion, but that would fly in the face of a lot of presumed behavioral patterns. For example, lesbians are more likely than any other group (e.g. straight men, gay men, and straight women) to report having zero sexual partners the year prior on surveys.

It makes sense when you consider that men and women have very different sexuality. As @SGT Ted remarked above, "It's about rampant promiscuity in the gay scene that is absent in the hetero community." Why is it absent in the hetero community? Because there is simply not a large contingent of women willing to have no-strings attached sex with relative strangers. Hence, Ashley Madison was mostly dudes talking to each other. Hence, men who are looking for those arrangements frequently have to use the service of prostitutes. Estimates have suggested that something between 15 and 20% of men in the US have paid for sex at least once in their lives.

J. Farmer said...

@Mike:

Those traits are applicable to human beings in general. Are there people anywhere on Earth that do not show evidence of these traits?

I don't think anyone denies that, and it isn't to deny that statement to point out that those traits are still not equally distributed between men and women.

Mike said...

Can you tell I jumped in and commented without reading? On my laptop the bottom is the default position on the comments page. On my phone the default is top-of-page. Weird.

J. Farmer said...

@n.n.:

The male transgender community is especially vulnerable, but so are couples that indulge in transgender acts.

What are "transgender acts?"

Mike said...

not equally distributed between men and women

Nor among disparate populations. Nor expressed the same way among men and women.

Humperdink said...

Trumpit said to Achilles: “You are a degenerate troll. Call me "stupid" if it makes you feel better."

@Trumpit. Yesterday I asked for a definition of a troll. Could you please advise your thoughts as to what qualifies as a troll? And a degenerate one at that?

I am trying to develop a comprehensive definition.

The Cracker Emcee Classic said...

"gay culture is often 'status-focused, competitive, hierarchical, and exclusionary.' He explains that these traits are common among men generally,"

Fastest "duh" I've experienced in reading an Althouse post.

reader said...

I'm not trying to restart the argument, but wasn't there a tiff a while back regarding men wanting sex more often than women that resulted in women having sex when they really weren't in the mood. And this was wrong/bad because that meant men weren't stepping up and/or women were devaluing/prostituting themselves by having sex for reasons other than just actually wanting to have sex?

Is this what happens when this plays out with men on both sides of the equation if we were to look at it beyond the 'status-focused, competitive, hierarchical, and exclusionary' nature of the culture?

Individual examples don't speak to the whole, but the majority of my friends/acquaintances who are lesbians have been in extremely long term relationships. From the outside it might have been better if some of them hadn't.

Conversely, it’s the opposite for the men I know. The relationship rarely last for more than a year or two.

James K said...

Estimates have suggested that something between 15 and 20% of men in the US have paid for sex at least once in their lives.

If you count the cost of romantic dinners, it's more like 100%.

And I agree with J. Farmer that there is an asymmetry between men and women.

Titus said...

Chris Rock said Men are only as faithful as their options. He was talking about gays and straights.

Straight men would be doing the same thing is they had the options-they don't. Women put on the brakes.

If a hot girl hit on you while you were walking your rare clumber puppy you would let her suck you off behind a tree in the dog park.

tits

Ignorance is Bliss said...

Estimates have suggested that something between 15 and 20% of men in the US have paid for sex at least once in their lives.

I think pretty much every male non-virgin has paid for sex. Just that it's not usually a cash-on-the-nightstand transaction. Sometimes it's Dilly Bars.

Yancey Ward said...

Women are more discerning and selective about sex with men, and with very good reason. There is really no counterpart to this with homosexual men- they are still men.

tcrosse said...

There was a gay stand-up comic who said that his Dad asked him "What do you boys do ?"
He answered, "The things you want Mother to do but she won't."

Kevin said...

"At first blush, the idea of coupling with nubile young college girls seems appealing. Then I remember what sex was like when I was that age.

I don't have the time to teach them what they need to know. Well ... maybe I could be inspired under the right circumstances."

Wait, what do they need to know? Women don't need *any* skill to have sex. Young, attractive, and willing are the only things one needs in this circumstance. Well, and now I'm so old I'd have to work hard to overcome the embarrassment of being so old with someone so young. That would be the biggest hurdle, and it isn't a skill they have, it's a skill I'd have to have. I would really try to tough through it though.

rehajm said...

Go build your own app across the street.

rehajm said...

There's a classic demotivational poster...

Is this a genre? I want to see more...

mccullough said...

Are there many churches that offer same sex socials? Seems like a good opportunity for churches (non Roman Catholic and Orthodox) to get more members. Meet another nice guy at church.

langford peel said...

So Trumpit is a pillow biter. That explains it.

Achilles said...

Titus said...
“Chris Rock said Men are only as faithful as their options. He was talking about gays and straights.“

I think there is a bimodal distribution at work here.

Trump Clinton Bush Obama.

They all had all sorts of options. Two went one way two went another.

J. Farmer said...

Ignorance Is Bliss:

I think pretty much every male non-virgin has paid for sex. Just that it's not usually a cash-on-the-nightstand transaction. Sometimes it's Dilly Bars.

I completely agree. But the figure I was talking about was for men who essentially put cash in a woman's hand in exchange for sex. I am not talking about the usual dinners and gifts that men are often obligated to buy a women before she considers having sex with him. Never mind the ritual surrounding the "engagement ring."

J. Farmer said...

@Kevin:

Young, attractive, and willing are the only things one needs in this circumstance.

Not so sure about that. Have you ever heard of a "dead fish lay?"

Achilles said...

rehajm said...
There's a classic demotivational poster...

Is this a genre? I want to see more...

Is a good start.

“Not everyone gets to be an astronaut.”

Christopher said...

Most interesting line for those of you who are not gay: "these traits are common among men generally."

Are you under the impression this is news to the 95%+ of the population that is not gay?

Comanche Voter said...

As The Doors sang, "People are strange".

One of my college fraternity brothers came out as gay at about age 25. He served in the Army Reserves for maybe 8 or 10 years. He said that on duty days, he'd go into gay bars in Seattle in his uniform and "had absolutely no problem" in hooking up. People love a man in uniform.

My wife once forked in a financial managers office. One of the younger women in the office was (a) very sexually active; and (b) couldn't resist any UPS guy in uniform. It was almost like the UPS guys were lucky to get out of that office with their shorts on.

Achilles said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
robother said...

When I first heard of the movement to push gay marriage, my reaction was, why would a men-only sexual scene ever want marriage? It always struck me as more of a political/cultural "in your face" move than reflecting any widespread desire on the part of gay men to enter into permanent monogamous relationships. I would guess that the percentage of gay relationships that proceed to marriage (compared to similar age heterosexuals) and the divorce rate in gay marriage would bear this out.

n.n said...

What are "transgender acts?"

There is only one sexually gendered act established by Nature: vaginal intercourse with a reproductive perspective. There are also socially gendered acts that follow, but they are usually limited in context. Everything else is a luxury and indulgence. Heterosexual and homosexuals have their share of transgender acts, which is probably why the latter orientation has been normalized in the breech.

Rick said...

Most interesting line for those of you who are not gay: "these traits are common among men generally." ['status-focused, competitive, hierarchical, and exclusionary.']

Sounds like how many would describe a hated high school. But even in that case the description would only be true of those who perceived themselves to be winning these competitions.

Fernandistien said...

Achilles said...
Is a good start.
link fixed...I hope.

"Simplicity"

Kyzernick said...

None of this is shocking. Men are men, and nature has dictated that sperm is cheap while eggs are expensive - biologically speaking. Hell, even in commerce, a guy can get maybe $100 for a sperm donation if he's fit, intelligent, handsome, and has a high sperm count and a large load. Meanwhile, a woman can get thousands of dollars for her eggs.

Men are designed to be promiscuous. Men who are not are often afflicted with some form of mental illness. Likewise, women are designed to be choosy. Women who are not are also generally mentally ill or emotionally unstable. Even sluts are usually pretty choosy - they might sleep around, but it's with the same group of 3 to 6 high-status men, and entering that club is harder than it looks. So, no surprise that gay men would be as promiscuous as possible with little to nothing standing in their way. Meanwhile, "lesbian bed death" is a thing.

Achilles said...

There is irony in failure to post a working link to despair.com.

Search for demotivators or type despair.com.

They have wonderful posters. Click on demotivators.

Is blogger fussing up or something?

Kevin said...

Not so sure about that. Have you ever heard of a "dead fish lay?"

No but if you have some 18-21 year old college students who are alleged to be dead fish lays I'd be happy to try out your theory. Over, and over, and over again. I will take very detailed notes, and put a lot of pretty numbers into charts and graphs. For science!

Trumpit said...

Because of my upbringing, cultural and other factors, I sometimes have an unkind, or bigoted thought enter my head. Resist it! Minorities have it rough and tough enough in this society, so I have to tell myself that I'm a tolerant person, look for the good in people, and will fight racism in myself and out in the world. I will become a better person though it may not be easy to do so. I suggest that you trolls make the same effort.

tim in vermont said...

look for the good in people, and will fight racism in myself and out in the world. I will become a better person though it may not be easy to do so. I suggest that you trolls make the same effort.

LOL.

Kevin said...

which is probably why the latter orientation has been normalized in the breech

Ew, the breech, so graphic. Gross.

tim in vermont said...

Have you ever heard of a "dead fish lay?”

Not in a negative way, no... A lay is a lay. I guess I never had enough options to be that choosy, but, I never but once slept with a girl that I didn’t have affection for, at a minimum, so I guess I would have worked with her on it. A Stradivarius can be a “dead fish” in the hands of a square.

Martin said...

'Most interesting line for those of you who are not gay: "these traits are common among men generally."'

It is a longstanding truism that women socialize young men.

If women are not sexually or socially important, where does that leave said young men?

Trumpit said...


"Ew, the breech, so graphic. Gross."

The word is "breach." Your spelling is gross.

Gahrie said...

Men are designed to be promiscuous. Men who are not are often afflicted with some form of mental illness. Likewise, women are designed to be choosy. Women who are not are also generally mentally ill or emotionally unstable. Even sluts are usually pretty choosy - they might sleep around, but it's with the same group of 3 to 6 high-status men, and entering that club is harder than it looks. So, no surprise that gay men would be as promiscuous as possible with little to nothing standing in their way. Meanwhile, "lesbian bed death" is a thing.

We were arguing about this in the staff lounge yesterday. (We didn't say deviation from the norm was mental illness) When two of us expressed these ideas we were meet with hostile disbelief.

J. Farmer said...

@tim in Vermont:

Not in a negative way, no... A lay is a lay.

Have all your sexual experiences been equally as enjoyable? If not, what makes one experience better than the other? If your partner laid passive, motionless, and made no sound, you would consider that an enjoyable sexual encounter?

Gahrie said...

Most interesting line for those of you who are not gay: "these traits are common among men generally."

Are you under the impression this is news to the 95%+ of the population that is not gay?


Not only that, she tries to deny it every time it comes up.

robother said...

Trumpit: "so I have to tell myself that I'm a tolerant person, look for the good in people, and will fight racism in myself and out in the world."

Internal dialogue that never actually happened. Stop being such a tool.

Scott M said...

'status-focused, competitive, hierarchical, and exclusionary.'

Among men?

Watch what happens to a group of women in an office when an attractive young woman is hired on and try to pin "status-focused, competitive, hierarchical, and exclusionary" on men.

Kevin said...

Trumpit, it wasn't my spelling I just copied the word from the original comment. However, actually look up "breech," and you will see that the joke still works.

Chris said...

This is it exactly I have a friend, whom is trying to off himself because of the giant hole in his chest where his heart should be. Pretty much just as the article states, the community of which he is a part and the incessant sex, drugs, and abuse to be found through grindr.

MadisonMan said...

We need to talk about how Grindr is affecting gay men’s mental health

We don't need to do that at all.

stlcdr said...

Observation: The best way to solve dysfunctional homosexual relationships is to blame, attack and destroy heterosexual relationships.

(While this piece doesnt necessarily state that, you can see where it’s going).

John said...

Blogger Trumpit said...

The problem with heterosexuality is there are no brakes. The proof is the nearly 7 billion people alive on earth today - nearly all a product of a well-known heterosexual sex act.

And this is a problem because?

John Henry

John said...

Hey Trumpit,

Do I have your permission to call you stupid too, or is it limited to certain people.

It will help me feel better.

Do you hang out on Grindr? Bathhouses? NTTATWWTOC. Are you speaking from experience?

John Henry

Howard said...

Trumpit is a very real old-school Mar Vista/Venice cat lady.

MadisonMan said...

I read the article. And you know what it reminded me of? The blog post yesterday about the very beautiful woman.

Shallow behavior is damaging is my conclusion.

Trumpit said...

Unbridled human reproduction is not just a time bomb; it has already detonated on mother earth. Life is on the brink.

https://www.amazon.com/Life-Brink-Environmentalists-Confront-Overpopulation/dp/0820343854/ref=sr_1_10?ie=UTF8&qid=1522960162&sr=8-10&keywords=paul+ehrlich%2C+population

Trumpit said...

@John_Henry,

You are not simply a troll, you are a piece of garbage. That's my final word to you.

Scott M said...

If women are not sexually or socially important, where does that leave said young men?

See also: The Middle East

n.n said...

The best way to solve dysfunctional homosexual relationships is to blame, attack and destroy heterosexual relationships.

To normalize the former, certainly. A principled tolerance of the former is derived from a reconciliation of imperatives and classification of behavior (not merely orientation or bias). However, a normalization in breech was forced through a classification of the latter as dysfunctional. It's too bad that the government is now in the ceremonial business of "=" or political congruence. Civil unions would have been principled, equal (not "="), and nonjudgmental.

n.n said...

nearly 7 billion people alive on earth today ... all a product of a well-known heterosexual sex act

And this is a problem because?

Humans are a virus, a plague, on Mother Gaia, and Her environmentalist cult.

mockturtle said...

Not so sure about that. Have you ever heard of a "dead fish lay?"

J. Farmer, that reminds me of the supposedly true transcript from a trial:

Attorney to young woman: "Are you sexually active?"
Young Woman: "No, I usually just lay there."

n.n said...

the community of which he is a part and the incessant sex, drugs, and abuse to be found through grindr

And Ashley Madison, "friendship with benefits" (e.g. casting couch), transsocials (although the climate is changing), etc.

mockturtle said...

Men are designed to be promiscuous. Men who are not are often afflicted with some form of mental illness.

Nonsense.

gilbar said...

"My wife once forked in a financial managers office. "

interesting choice of words; between her and the UPS groupie: must have been an fun office

gilbar said...

or... a financial managers office is an odd place to drive a forklift

Fernandistien said...

"Have you ever heard of a "dead fish lay?""

That's where they can't fight back.

"My wife once forked in a financial managers office. "

I hope she didn't fork her cow orkers.

John said...


https://www.amazon.com/Life-Brink-Environmentalists-Confront-Overpopulation/dp/0820343854/ref=sr_1_10?ie=UTF8&qid=1522960162&sr=8-10&keywords=paul+ehrlich%2C+population

Really? Paul Ehrlich?

"Stupid" seems like it might be a step up for you.

Ever read "The Population Bomb", by himself back in the 60's? Did any single one of the many predictions he made even come remotely true? Pretty much all of them, especially widespread famine and disease, went the other way.

What make you think he would be any more right this time around?

John Henry

gilbar said...

John Henry; are you actually going to DENY that the majority of the people on earth died in the famine of the 1980's???
Are you just going to pretend that it Didn't happen??

read wiki, and LEARN!
"in 1970, he warned that "[i]n ten years all important animal life in the sea will be extinct. Large areas of coastline will have to be evacuated because of the stench of dead fish."[5][25] In a 1971 speech, he predicted that: "By the year 2000 the United Kingdom will be simply a small group of impoverished islands, inhabited by some 70 million hungry people."

these things happened; don't you remember??
</sarc

Drago said...

Howard: "Trumpit is a very real old-school Mar Vista/Venice cat lady."

Mar Vista!

That brings back some memories....and there were indeed some characters living there...

Jim at said...

so I have to tell myself that I'm a tolerant person, - Trumpit

Good. Because nobody else is going to.

Kyzernick said...

"If your partner laid passive, motionless, and made no sound"

Then you're doing something very, very wrong.

We were just in NY to visit my side of the family for my wife's baby shower. We slept at my mother's house at her request. Doing the deed was next to impossible because my wife couldn't stay quiet. Hard as she tried, the noises that come from her mouth are impossible to muffle short of smothering her under a pillow until it's over. This is why my neighbors hated us until we moved into a house together - she generated so many late-night noise complaints that I almost got evicted. Eventually we had to agree to only meet at her place, because noise didn't matter there.

So yeah, a "dead fish lay" speaks more to the skill of the man than the woman. Unless she's asexual and just doing you a favor as a friend or something, you done fucked up.

Kyzernick said...

And no, I didn't smother my wife under a pillow. The only other thing that works is locking lips through most of the act. But I have to be careful because . . . well, she bites, and I like having a tongue and lips.

madAsHell said...

Here’s why I went on Grindr to survey men

Survey!! That's laughable. That's the biggest asking-for-a-friend I've ever seen.

John said...

Ahhhh... ya got me dead to rights. I am a denier. I have no scientific evidence to back up my denial. I just deny because I am a no good racist 2A loving MAGA racist "piece of garbage".

Seriously, stupid as Ehrlich was in writing that book, he did make a lot of money from it and has been dining out on it ever since. Now he is apparently suckered a whole new bunch of rubes like Trumpit.

As PT Barnum (I think) said, "Never underestimate the stupidity of some people."

The really sad part is that Trumpit probably paid good American money for the book. Even sadder is that s/he/it probably believes it. It is good people like this do not reproduce.

If they really thought overpopulation was a problem...

By the way, Trumpit, it appears that didn't even link through Ann's portal. What kind of piece of garbage are you? She let's us play in her sandbox and you flip her off like this? Shame on you.

John Henry

Lewis Wetzel said...

@Lewis Wetzel:

It is extremely difficult to find the info online, but both male and female homosexuals are appallingly promiscuous -- legally "married" or not.


There was research done about expectations of fidelity within a relationship back in the 90s. It was broken down into hetero male & female, & gay male & female. The number of hetero women who said they would cheat on their partner, given a chance, was small, like 3%. For hetero men the number was like 20%. for gay women, the number was about the same as hetero men, and for gay men it was off the scale, something like 75% did not expected fidelity from themselves or their partner.

Francisco D said...

J. Farmer said: ... "If your partner laid passive, motionless, and made no sound, you would consider that an enjoyable sexual encounter?"

I cannot believe I am getting involved with the "dead fish lay" controversy. Here is my perspective:

I was sexually active in my late teens through mid-20's and didn't worry so much about dead fish. It's better than no fish.

After 27 years of marriage, I went back on the dating scene and was very sexually active for about 5 years. The biggest mistakes I ever made were sleeping with women who were dead fish or close to what J. Farmer describes.

It's sort of like food or wine. When you are a kid, anything that fills your belly or gets you a buzz is OK. When you develop a sense of taste, the crappy stuff is not only unappealing, it is something to be avoided.

Jim at said...

Really? Paul Ehrlich?

I didn't even have to click on that link to suspect that's who Trumpit was referencing.

Johnny Carson used to have him on back in the '70s, and we happened to catch a rerun the other night. My wife hadn't heard of him since he was a bit before her time, so she watched.

"How can one person be so massively wrong on each and every thing he's saying? And people listened to him back then?"

They still do, hon. They still do.

Behold: Trumpit

Drago said...

Jim at: ""How can one person be so massively wrong on each and every thing he's saying? And people listened to him back then?"

Ehrlich has been proven so wrong for so long its no wonder lefties and their LLR allies demand we actually reengineer every structure and aspect of our human relationships and organizations and rules based on those very disproven concepts.

The lefties and their LLR allies are drawn to those ideas like moths to the flame.

Drago said...

madAsHell: "Survey!! That's laughable. That's the biggest asking-for-a-friend I've ever seen"

I think Kurt Eichenwald's tentacle porn denial is right up there as well.

There, I've said it.

I don't care if saying it will cause LLR Chuck to direct fire my way in defense of a hard left lunatic "journalist".

Scott said...

I'm homosexual. As a service to the Althouse community, I will be happy to answer your questions.

Drago said...

Scott, aren't you supposed to have a little pop-up window with a talking paper clip introducing yourself?

Scott said...

April 3, 2018 -- "BuzzFeed reported Monday that Grindr, used by 3.6 million daily active users worldwide, has been providing users' HIV status and their "last tested date" - information that Grindr users choose to include in their profiles - to two analytics companies."

Scott said...

@Drago: If Althouse ever migrates to SalesForce, I'm willing to do this.

Scott said...

After learning of the Grindr data breach earlier this week, I decided to close my account. Remaining apps on my phone are Badoo, Adam 4 Adam, Scruff, Hornet, and Jack'd. The best UX is on Scruff, followed by A4A.

Bay Area Guy said...

According to the largest, most recent data from the NIH the American population is:

96.6% - straight
1.6% - gay or Lesbian
.7% - bisexual
1.1% - "other"

Nothing against our gay and bisexual brothers and sisters, but why talk about them? They are an outlier. As Roseanne Barr once said, just be gay and shut up.

Pookie Number 2 said...

As a service to the Althouse community, I will be happy to answer your questions.

What does it mean for the Federal Reserve to shrink its balance sheet?

madAsHell said...

@Drago: If Althouse ever migrates to SalesForce, I'm willing to do this.

Is this not just so much wishful thinking?? Althouse depends on a service called blogspot, and I'm sure Althouse has very little influence on the choice of underlying database.

....unless I'm wrong. Please explain!!

mockturtle said...

As a service to the Althouse community, I will be happy to answer your questions.

How much wood would a woodchuck chuck if a woodchuck could chuck wood?

Bay Area Guy said...

I wrote:

"Nothing against our gay and bisexual brothers and sisters, but why talk about them? They are an outlier. As Roseanne Barr once said, just be gay and shut up."

This was imprecise. Yes, by all means, let's talk and share ideas about politics, philosophy, morality, history with our gay and lesbian sisters and brothers. Talking about "gay" stuff though is limiting and, now, boring.

mockturtle said...

Talking about "gay" stuff though is limiting and, now, boring.

Same with "black" stuff. One reason I like Fox Business News is because it's so refreshing to hear black people talk about something other than race.

madAsHell said...

....unless I'm wrong. Please explain!!

I'll assume that Scott knows the market place, and understands that blogger is hosted......most likely by Oracle. If there is an economic model that allows one to migrate from one DB platform to another, then we might be talking about Althou.se!!

tim in vermont said...

Have all your sexual experiences been equally as enjoyable? If not, what makes one experience better than the other? If your partner laid passive, motionless, and made no sound, you would consider that an enjoyable sexual encounter?

Umm, I don’t actually rate them. I liked having sex with all of them, not that the number has been huge. I liked them as people. I enjoyed my time with them even when we weren’t having sex, and like I said, if I ran into one like that, which I never did, I like to believe we would have worked on it. I may not be a sexual athlete, but get the feeling that my lovers considered me a fun lover. They can get a “sexual athlete” for $20 on Amazon that won’t dump them the second they pull a girlfriend move.

tim in vermont said...

One reason I like Fox Business News is because it’s so refreshing to hear black people talk about something other than race.

On the NFL channel, they might have four black panelist talking football, and race will never get mentioned. They also have a different take than white analysts, it’s interesting.

mockturtle said...

If your partner laid passive, motionless, and made no sound, you would consider that an enjoyable sexual encounter?

No, I'd assume he was dead. ;-)

Anonymous said...

None of this should be surprising in the least. As with Chesterton's fence in other contexts, society mostly removed the taboos and restraints on gay culture without considering the reason that they were there - or perhaps more properly that there may have been reasons other than religious for those fences.

The result primarily benefits those on the top of the hierarchy so to speak at the expense of those on the bottom. If the wider experience is anything like that suggested by the two Grindr users quoted, there is a forthcoming crop of shattered and disillusioned young gay men coming our way in the next few years.

n.n said...

The orientation is separable from the behavior is separable from a promiscuous culture that has developed in close association with the former. The conflation is sufficient cause for a minority, or a majority, of homosexuals to demand recognition of their relationships in an independent frame of reference (e.g. monogamous, persistent, respectful unions), that is well regarded in civilized societies. That said, on the transgender spectrum, homosexual behavior is less disruptive than some other expressions. So, there's that, and the fact that an individual's character is rarely defined by their sexual orientation.

Phil 3:14 said...

Scott,

I do have a question. Why don't more gay men push back on the inclusion of transsexuals in the LGBT universe. It seems gay men are perfectly content with their maleness and would confusion with anatomy vs internal conviction weird.

So I nominate you to speak for all gay men. What are your thought on that?

Gahrie said...


How much wood would a woodchuck chuck if a woodchuck could chuck wood?

A woodchuck would chuck as much wood as a woodchuck could chuck, if a woodchuck could chuck wood.

Achilles said...

Scott said...

@Drago: If Althouse ever migrates to SalesForce, I'm willing to do this.

eww... SalesForce...

Ralph L said...

Gays don't chuck wood.

gerry said...

Unbridled human reproduction is not just a time bomb; it has already detonated on mother earth. Life is on the brink.

That is so 1970s.

mikee said...

He had his chance to be an altar boy, but NOOOOO!
If it weren't for bad luck, he'd have no luck at all!