March 13, 2018

"We were not really thinking the same... Really, it was a different mind-set, a different thinking."

Said Trump talking to reporters today about his firing of Rex Tillerson, the NYT reports.
Mr. Tillerson found out he had been fired before dawn, shortly after his flight returned from a weeklong trip to Africa, said Steve Goldstein, the under secretary of state for public diplomacy. There was no indication during the five-nation visit that Mr. Tillerson’s departure was imminent....
What about Tillerson's calling in sick? Fake?
Mr. Tillerson has been out of favor with Mr. Trump for months but had resisted being pushed out. His distance from Mr. Trump’s inner circle was clear last week when the president accepted an invitation to meet with Mr. Kim, to Mr. Tillerson’s surprise....

His profound disagreements with the president on policy appeared to be his undoing: Mr. Tillerson wanted to remain part of the Paris climate accord; Mr. Trump decided to leave it. Mr. Tillerson supported the continuation of the Iran nuclear deal; Mr. Trump loathed the deal as “an embarrassment to the United States.” And Mr. Tillerson believed in dialogue to resolve the North Korean nuclear crisis, but Mr. Trump repeatedly threatened military options.

Veteran diplomats said they could not remember a time when a president so regularly undermined his secretary of state so brazenly in the midst of a tense situation. Richard N. Haass, the president of the Council on Foreign Relations, who served many Republican presidents, last fall urged Mr. Tillerson to quit....

The turning point for Mr. Tillerson came when NBC News reported that he had called the president a “moron”.... The growing distance between the men was on clear display during Mr. Trump’s trip to Asia in November, when Mr. Tillerson visited the prison that once housed Senator John McCain, a Republican from Arizona who is a frequent critic of the president.

But perhaps the most puzzling part of Mr. Tillerson’s tenure was his poor oversight of the State Department. As a former top business executive, his managerial skills were thought to be his chief asset....
What a dismal finish for this man!

210 comments:

1 – 200 of 210   Newer›   Newest»
AllenS said...

From the article --

His profound disagreements with the president on policy appeared to be his undoing: Mr. Tillerson wanted to remain part of the Paris climate accord; Mr. Trump decided to leave it. Mr. Tillerson supported the continuation of the Iran nuclear deal; Mr. Trump loathed the deal as “an embarrassment to the United States.” And Mr. Tillerson believed in dialogue to resolve the North Korean nuclear crisis, but Mr. Trump repeatedly threatened military options.

That's all the information you need to see to find reason for Trumps decision to can Rex. Good for Trump. Wise decision.

tim in vermont said...

Veteran diplomats said they could not remember a time when a president so regularly undermined his secretary of state so brazenly in the midst of a tense situation.

I wonder if they can “remember a time” when the SoS so regularly undermined his president?

Sebastian said...

"they could not remember a time when a president so regularly undermined his secretary of state so brazenly"

Huh?

"they could not remember a time when a SoS so regularly undermined his boss so brazenly"

FIFT

. . . all while failing to get a grip on his own department.

tim in vermont said...

It’s like they think that the President isn’t boss of the executive or something. At some point, Trump will have re-made the party.

MountainMan said...

Now if he would only do something about his Secretary of Labor, Alex Acosta, who is continuing every bad policy left by the Obama administration. It's like Tom Perez never left.

Nonapod said...

His profound disagreements with the president on policy appeared to be his undoing: Mr. Tillerson wanted to remain part of the Paris climate accord; Mr. Trump decided to leave it. Mr. Tillerson supported the continuation of the Iran nuclear deal; Mr. Trump loathed the deal as “an embarrassment to the United States.” And Mr. Tillerson believed in dialogue to resolve the North Korean nuclear crisis, but Mr. Trump repeatedly threatened military options.

Assuming all this is accurate, it's surprising he Rex T. lasted this long. A big oil man who liked the Paris climate accord? On the surface that seems to breaks some stereotypes... but then again the heads of the big monolithic companies often have an affinity for using things like carbon credits as a cudgel to beat down their smaller competitors I guess.

Beloved Commenter AReasonableMan said...

Althouse said ...
What a dismal finish for this man!


Ambiguous.

Ray said...

Sad to see him go. He really understands the middle east and oil.

And gone on the day of the Pa election.

My guess NK was the straw that broke the camels back.

He has done a lot of good shrinking the state department. More needs to be done. It’s cleaning the Aegean stables.

Secretaries I wish were fired instead are labor and possibly va.

Colin said...

As I understand it, the SoS is in charge of implementing the President's foreign policy. If he completely disagreed with his marching orders, then better he should go.

In all honesty, I'm finding this changeover in personnel somewhat refreshing. Many of the last Presidents have tended to put loyalty to the individual over how well they were performing their function. Lincoln fired people like mad during his tenure, and people tend to think well of him today.

I imagine it would also decrease the tendency in the various subordinate positions to try to build little fiefdoms of policy and influence independent of Trump if they know they can and will be booted out.

Unknown said...

What choice did Trump have? Keep Tillerson, who was arguably undermining the president, and be seen as weak, or fire him because he disagreed nearly completely with Trump. Given their clear disagreement about policy Tillerson should have done the professional and honorable thing and resigned.

-sw

Michael K said...

There was an awful lot of friction. I can't imagine why Tillerson thought this would not end where did.

BDNYC said...

“And Mr. Tillerson believed in dialogue to resolve the North Korean nuclear crisis, but Mr. Trump repeatedly threatened military options.”

Um, both got what they wanted.

Henry said...

There's nothing like combat to clear out an officer corps.

bolivar di griz said...

Yes back in 2001-3, Powell against w, its like every day is groundhog day in Washington. Haspel had a critical role in the interrogation program that the likes of wilkerson, bellinger (now at lawfare), Armitage the real leakier to Judy miller, carried out.

Etienne said...

Meanwhile Kellyanne got beautiful flowers and chocolates for her office with the big picture window overlooking the swamp.

Tillerson Swamp Crying

Chuck said...

I don't understand what is so "dismal" about the "finish" of Tillerson? All along, he resisted becoming a Trump-toady; he never had to lie for Trump or about Trump. He held the same beliefs throughout his service. When nominated, he was criticized as a kind of puppet of the Russians and Putin, but he proved those critics wrong and never demonstrated anything that would have given credence to being such a puppet.

Rex Tillerson is a member of the Augusta National Golf Club, and now he can enjoy the 2018 Masters in what I sort of expect will be a happy and brief retirement before somebody makes him the President of a major university or the chairman of a leading charitable foundation or something.

tim in vermont said...

All along, he resisted becoming a Trump-toady;

Election? Never happened! Trump isn’t the boss, every constitutional scholar knows that.

tim in vermont said...

Maybe Obama should have fired Hillary for dragging us into that shit show in Libya? Could have spared the country a lot of grief.

glenn said...

Only room for one rooster in Trumps henhouse.

Chuck said...

Again, the more I read of what I presume are the same things that Althouse is reading, it seems to me that the reports late last year of Trump's displeasure with Tillerson and the nascent plan to replace Tillerson with Pompeo were all correct.

And that the only surprising thing was that it didn't happen sooner. Trump was unusually reluctant to fire Tillerson (maybe Trump's judgment was that it was not the right time politically, and maybe Trump just didn't want to give the media the immediate gratification of having called it correctly), and Tillerson was unusually reluctant to quit in protest.

readering said...

I want to know more about firing of bodyman aka Rob Porter bodydouble as Trump about to take off fo lala land.

Curious George said...

Mr. Tillerson wanted to remain part of the Paris climate accord
Mr. Tillerson supported the continuation of the Iran nuclear deal
Mr. Tillerson believed in dialogue to resolve the North Korean nuclear crisis

And this guy thinks Trumps a moron.

Good riddance.

readering said...

State Dept confirms Tillerson learned of termination from POTUS tweet. Stay classy Mr President.

dda6ga dda6ga said...

How long did Lincoln have to wait to dump McClellan?

Ralph L said...

Poor oversight of the State Dept = didn't let them run over him every time

Trump keeps his people on their toes by firing them when they don't expect it

Chuck said...

An old Althouse poll, where readers were voting that Trump and Tillerson were coordinating a good cop-bad cop routine, or else Trump was supplying a special Trumpian kind of backup to Tillerson:

https://althouse.blogspot.com/2017/10/is-this-really-happening.html

So much for Trump's "wonderful" Secretary of State. The "fine-tuned machine" that is the Trump White House.

tim in vermont said...

State Dept confirms Tillerson learned of termination from POTUS tweet. Stay classy Mr President.

That’s exactly why he was fired. State Department is still putting out anti-Trump propaganda. He was asked to resign, he didn’t. He serves at the pleasure of the president.

And it’s pretty funny to hear a party that ran a Clinton for POTUS talking about “classy.”

gspencer said...

Rex can relate.

How the Army informs you that your mother has passed.

Sgt. Schultz: ATTENTION. Okay, everyone who’s mother is not dead take one step forward. Murphy, stay where you are.

Gahrie said...

I think he should have promoted Nikki Haley instead.

rhhardin said...

They had philanthropic differences.

Inga said...

“The "fine-tuned machine" that is the Trump White House.”

And it’s getting more hilarious ( and “fine tuned”) by the day!

tim in vermont said...

The “fine-tuned machine" that is the Trump White House

I didn’t vote for Trump for him to go in and do stuff the same old way. You probably haven’t been happy since ’94, when the Republicans abandoned their Washington Generals model of governing. Let the Democrats do whatever they want, and if they don’t make too much trouble, there will be scraps!

Beloved Commenter AReasonableMan said...

Chuck said...
An old Althouse poll, where readers were voting that Trump and Tillerson were coordinating a good cop-bad cop routine, or else Trump was supplying a special Trumpian kind of backup to Tillerson:


Thank God for Chuck, bringing consistency and order to a chaotic world.

rhhardin said...

With Twitter, you find out you're fired a lot faster.

tim in vermont said...

And it’s getting more hilarious ( and “fine tuned”) by the day!

And his popularity keeps rising. And Democrat’s delusional hopes for the Senate are long dashed on the rocks, and their possibly more sane hopes to win the House are pretty much gone too, unless something changes. This ain’t it.

rhhardin said...

The old days:

TO HELL WITH YOU STOP OFFENSIVE LETTER FOLLOWS STOP

tim in vermont said...

I am sure that the platform of higher gas and heating oil prices, higher taxes, higher unemployment, unbridled immigration and complete erasure of our southern border will be a sure winner though!

Kevin said...

Now the Dems will charge Trump with obstruction of diplomacy...

Nonapod said...

To be fair, "dialogue" may yet resolve the North Korean nuclear crisis. But also maybe not. It's moot. Tillerson not being a fan of Trump's bellicose rhetoric is sort of irrelevant. Only time will tell if Trump's mercurial style will serve as a benefit or a hindrance on this issue. All I can say about it is that we've been more or less doing the same thing with regards to North Korea for decades: a fruitless cycle of sanctions, promises, placation, followed by North Korea going back on their word (shockingly). Doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results? What's that called again?

Drago said...

LLR Chuck: "And that the only surprising thing was that it didn't happen sooner."

Its all about Iran with upcoming NK talks.

Trump gave Tillerson more time to come around to new policies and Tillerson, swayed by the obambi holdovers, never did.

The Iran deal is going down and the State Dept idiots who failed in everything over 2 decades were undermining the NK talks.

Tillerson had to go.

Inga said...

“And his popularity keeps rising. And Democrat’s delusional hopes for the Senate are long dashed on the rocks, and their possibly more sane hopes to win the House are pretty much gone too, unless something changes”

Hilarious.

Drago said...

Kevin: "Now the Dems will charge Trump with obstruction of diplomacy..."

Not quite.

It will be something like: Conspiracy to Defraud the US Government of Adequate Diplomacy or whatever the latest fake charge is floating about the Mueller hack investigation that is designed to keep the rubes like Inga and ARM onboard with future impeachment talk.

traditionalguy said...

Want to play a game. Council Foreign Relations stealth team takes hardest hit as Trump chess moves another key General into a key position on the board. And McMaster has just been edged closer to elimination.

Mike said...

John Bennett says: “This [the destruction of the videotapes] was not done on Gina Haspel’s authority, and I know that because I was there.”

That is veteran CIA operative John Bennett, whom we presume knows more about the facts than Inga and NPR. Nice to see Inga bare the fangs so early and declare Haspel “not a woman” already. Such dehumanizing language from the tolerant set! She can’t be a woman because she’s a Republican. There you go! Why argue facts or history when you can stamp your feet and squeal progressive pieties instead?

Drago said...

Mike: "Nice to see Inga bare the fangs so early and declare Haspel “not a woman” already."

Unexpectedly.

Inga said...

Strange, how just hours after Tillerson said the UK spy poisoning “clearly came from Russia” he was fired.

Krumhorn said...

Trump is doing it his way. And why shouldn’t he?

I never defend Trump, but if I had to vote today, I’d pull the same lever to elect him.

I defended W endlessly, but that turn-the-other-cheek thing of his was maddening. The quality that Trump has that I most like is that homie don’t play that. When he dispatched the meddling Pope back behind the high thick walls of the Vatican, I knew he was the man I wanted to see in office.

To see the lefties and the Chuckles with their hair constantly ablaze is an added benefit. Trump fuels their eternal flame.

- Krumhorn

Drago said...

You have to understand, now that ARM's fake there are NO no-go zones charade has collapsed in Europe and the Inga's desperate clinging to the collusion lie is becoming untenable, it will probably be necessary to continue to ratchet up the lefty rhetoric.

Hillary was in India yesterday telling Indians that Trump and Trump voters hate Indians and hate women.

Hillary "forgot" to mention Nikki Haley.

Probably because she was already planning her collapse walking down some steps in Mumbai.

Drago said...

Inga: "Strange, how just hours after Tillerson said the UK spy poisoning “clearly came from Russia” he was fired"

LOL

Thank you Inga.

I was wondering how long it would take for you to flex to the collusion thing! Keep hope alive!

traditionalguy said...

As the World Government Turns: in this week's episode DJT has taken Kim Jog Um and Rex Von Tillerson down. It makes one wonder how does Impeachment of a Moron President For Life happen?

Drago said...

Inga: "Strange, how just hours after Tillerson said the UK spy poisoning “clearly came from Russia” he was fired"

Post hoc ergo propter hoc.

LOL

Also, it rained somewhere yesterday in Russia. And somewhere else not in Russia.

What more proof do you need?

mccullough said...

Rex seems like a decent enough guy. He was very diplomatic in his temperament and familiar with many world leaders from running Exxon, the most important company in the world.

But those skills were developed and honed during a different time for a different game.

The dead ball era is over.



Drago said...

Earlier Inga: Media was right about Trump firing Tillerson months ago!!

Now Inga: Trump fired Tillerson because of a poisoning in Britain just 9 days ago!!

LOL

Drago said...

Next up for the lunatic left: Trump knew months ago the Russians would poison the guy in Britain and thats why Trump wanted to fire Tillerson.

The lunatic lefties will then flex to Trump himself poisoned the guy!

bgates said...

Score one for those who predicted Tillerson would be out early this year. A reminder that a person can be right even if insane enough to be outraged at the President's insubordination towards those who work for him.

Chuck said...

"...the lefties and the Chuckles with their hair constantly ablaze..."


Wait a minute. What unifies me with "lefties"? I liked Rex Tillerson; just like Trump did. I like Mike Pompeo, and said so above. I even professed my earnest preference for the Wall Street Journal, over the Times. I've often thanked Althouse, "For reading and blogging the New York Times, so that I don't have to read it."

I don't recall ever much writing about any foreign policy disputes between Tillerson and Trump. I'm sure I'd probably side with Tillerson mostly, but that's nothing like being a "lefty."

My hair isn't "ablaze" over this. My position is much like what I imagine yours to be; an extremely reluctant Trump voter. Someone who cast that vote despite huge misgivings about Trump personally. There are a significant number of people whom I like in the Trump Administration, and I have said so. I certainly don't agree with everything that Trump has done as President, but I also certainly don't disagree with everything either. Federal judicial nominations (where Trump has the wholesale advantage of playing under all-new rules from any modern president) have gone particularly well.

So where am I "lefty"? How exactly is my "hair ablaze," if yours isn't as well?

You seem to like unvarnished, plain-spoken pushback. And that is my attitude toward Trump, on the things I don't like about him. Unvarnished, plain-spoken pushback.

buwaya said...

Nikki Haley is a Sikh, which are as a type looked on rather askance by the present Indian government which is intensely Hindu. A lot of the chatter about Trudeaus visit in the Indian press was about Trudeau's pandering to Sikhs in Canada, among them Sikh ethnic activists, which was not always taken well in India.

An Indian is not an Indian, they come in many flavors.

mockturtle said...

There was some dispute on FNN this AM about whether or not Pompeo would need confirmation. Anyone know?

Beloved Commenter AReasonableMan said...

Only the best people:

"President Donald Trump’s personal assistant, John McEntee, was fired on Monday. McEntee was reportedly escorted out of the White House without being given time to collect his personal belongings, including his jacket.

McEntee is currently under investigation by the Department of Homeland Security for financial crimes. McEntee was one of Trump’s longest serving aides who has been serving with Trump since the early days of the campaign."

The Cracker Emcee Classic said...

"Veteran diplomats said they could not remember a time when a president so regularly undermined his secretary of state so brazenly in the midst of a tense situation."

Well, he sabotaged her campaign for the presidency, so there is that.

buwaya said...

I take this as an expression of important differences of opinion on foreign policy. Tillerson did not agree with Trump.
This is a good reason for an honorable resignation.

What I wonder about is why Tillerson did not resign.

As for "Russia", Tillerson had excellent contacts with Putin and his men, having personally arranged very large deals there which were scuttled by the 2014 Crimea/Ukraine crises. If anyone had extensive Russian contacts and long term prior entanglement with Putin, as well as a powerful interest in removing Russian sanctions, it is Tillerson, or rather Exxon, over which he had fiduciary responsibility and to which he has had a life-long loyalty.

But that fit no-ones narratives it seems. And it does not denigrate Tillersons character. The petroleum business requires dealing with dubious characters as a matter of course.

Amadeus 48 said...

Here are the skills that get you to the top of Exxon: don't make waves, follow the rules, no sharp edges, no heroic stands, plan and follow the plan, no surprises, always beat your budget.

Does that sound like Trump to you?

Apples and oranges (or ORANGE), folks.

Chuck said...

Amadeus 48 said...
Here are the skills that get you to the top of Exxon: don't make waves, follow the rules, no sharp edges, no heroic stands, plan and follow the plan, no surprises, always beat your budget.

Does that sound like Trump to you?

So why did Trump select Tillerson for the cabinet? Part of The Greatest Cabinet Ever?

Why not pick Anthony Scaramucci, or Vince McMahon, or Howard Stern, or Dennis Rodman, or Jared Kushner as Secretary of State?

Drago said...

ARM has decided that now would be a good time to discuss some aide's situation as we are facing the reality that the entire obama admin weaponized our intelligence and law enforcement agencies to spy on domestic political opponents as well as work with the dems to craft a russia collusion lie to de-legitimize first an opposition candidate, then President-elect, then a duly elected President.

Let's all pay very close attention.

Comanche Voter said...

Obama never undermined Hillary. As long as she was on a plane and not bothering anybody--or doing anything--Obama was fine with that.

Ray said...

Nikki Haley is Sikh, but she converted to being a Methodist and Christianity conventions is a huge issue in India.

Drago said...

LLR and Self-Described Michigan Electoral Expert Chuck: "So why did Trump select Tillerson for the cabinet?"

Global contacts and relationships in many of the most critically important locales for our foreign policy.

Leadership of the largest private oil and gas company which would suggest the ability to bring business acumen and understanding to the role.

It's not Trump's fault that Tillerson proved incapable of standing up to the State Dept flunkies and obama/clinton/kerry holdovers who have been running things at Foggy Bottom.

That was not discoverable until Tillerson was put in place.

Tillerson was, and the results are obvious. Time for someone like Pompeo who has proven himself in cleaning up the CIA and who is in alignment with Trump admin strategic policies.

Duh.

Drago said...

The best part of the coming s***-canning of the Iran deal?

The end of having Iran conduct its own compliance inspections.

Yes. Under obama's plan, that was allowed.

Because #SmartLeftyDiplomacy

And Tillerson allowed the state dept flunkies to convince him to keep the deal and oppose Trump admin intent to kill this sham deal.

Ann Althouse said...

"Ambiguous."

Yeah, I get it. My line reads like the second-to-last line in a standard-form joke with the last line being something like: And rather unfortunate for Tillerson as well.

Ann Althouse said...

Trump made a joke on himself in that standard form at the Gridiron Dinner.

Trumpit said...

"Tea For The Tillerman"

Bring tea for the Tillerman
Steak for the sun
Wine for the women who made the rain come
Seagulls sing your hearts away
'Cause while the sinners sin, the children play

Oh Lord how they play and play
For that happy day, for that happy day

-Cat Stevens

Beloved Commenter AReasonableMan said...

Donald J. Trump said ...
@realDonaldTrump
I told Rex Tillerson, our wonderful Secretary of State, that he is wasting his time trying to negotiate with Little Rocket Man...

EDH said...

Amadeus 48 said...
Here are the skills that get you to the top of Exxon: don't make waves, follow the rules, no sharp edges, no heroic stands, plan and follow the plan, no surprises, always beat your budget.

What an excellent encapsulation of the corporate mold.

Mind if I steal it sometime?

Krumhorn said...


Wait a minute. What unifies me with "lefties"?


While others may doubt it, I take your repeated assertion that you are a life long Republican at face value. However, you share the ignominy of the lefties by being among those never-Trumpers establishment Republican types for whom the election of Trump was unthinkable error. Catastrophe! Merde! Quelle horreur!

Just to be clear, Chuckles, I have long thought that establishment Republicans have done fully as much harm to our country as have the lefties. So if Trump wants to bitchslap lefties AND establishment Republicans like you, I’d like to lend him a hand if his gets tired.

For further clarity, Chuckles, I cancelled my suscription to the WSJ last year which I had maintained for many years. Don’t miss it a bit.

- Krumhorn

Jay Elink said...

"It’s cleaning the Aegean stables."
*******************************************

Yeah, them damn Greeks and their unkempt horse stalls.



Francisco D said...

In my earlier career as a business psychologist, I met many senior executives who looked the part, just as my initial impression of Rex Tillerson was that he looked the part.

Unfortunately for people like Rex, looking the part and being able to play the part are vastly different exercises. That's where the term "empty suit" comes from.

Clyde said...

Inga, Chuck, ARM, readering: I hope that you have the courage of your convictions and won't allow yourselves to profit off the Trump regime's policies. Send back your tax cut in 2019! Just write the IRS a check next year for the extra money you're getting now. Tell Trump and his "toadies" that you won't accept the ill-gotten gains they have sent your way. Send back the crumbs!

#$endItBack!

readering said...

I live in California. Perhaps the others could send me their tax cuts.

Beloved Commenter AReasonableMan said...

Rep. Tom Rooney (R-Fla.) told CNN that “there is evidence” the Russians worked to help Trump.

“I don’t know that necessarily there was a full-fledged campaign to do everything that they could to help elect Donald Trump,” he added. “I think that their goal was chaos.”


Mission accomplished.

tcrosse said...

Hercules was required to clean out the Augean Stables, but he wasn't required to fill them back up.

readering said...

So who is next? I say McMaster.

Amadeus 48 said...

EDH--go right ahead. It's not stealing since you asked. :)

This was based on 40 years of corporate law practice and 45 years of investing in the stock market.

Beloved Commenter AReasonableMan said...

Clyde said...
Send back your tax cut in 2019! Just write the IRS a check next year for the extra money you're getting now.


Wouldn't it make more sense to give the money to your children to pay for the vastly increased federal debt that we are bequeathing them?

Chuck said...

Krumhorn said...

Wait a minute. What unifies me with "lefties"?

While others may doubt it, I take your repeated assertion that you are a life long Republican at face value. However, you share the ignominy of the lefties by being among those never-Trumpers establishment Republican types for whom the election of Trump was unthinkable error. Catastrophe! Merde! Quelle horreur!

Just to be clear, Chuckles, I have long thought that establishment Republicans have done fully as much harm to our country as have the lefties. So if Trump wants to bitchslap lefties AND establishment Republicans like you, I’d like to lend him a hand if his gets tired.

For further clarity, Chuckles, I cancelled my suscription to the WSJ last year which I had maintained for many years. Don’t miss it a bit.

- Krumhorn


Okay, so even lifelong (you brought it up!) Republicans who voted for Trump (and are thereby NOT "NeverTrump") get lumped together with "lefties." It's the lack of enthusiasm for Trump, that earns your condemnation.

Got it. Two classes of Americans. Enthusiastic supporters of Trump, and everybody else. And "everybody else" are "lefties."

"Lefties" like Jonah Goldberg, the author of "Liberal Fascism." Lefties like Bill Kristol of the Weekly Standard, Kevin Williamson and Charles C.W. Cooke of National Review. And obviously, a "lefty" like George Will who would not vote for Trump.

"Lefties," if they aren't fans of Trump.

See; it's fine with me if you cancel your Journal subscription. You didn't see me making any broad general characterizations of you, previously. I didn't -- and don't now -- classify you as "Alt Right" or "Far Right" or "xenophobic" or racist or anything else.

The one broad, categorical generalization that seems to happen with particular frequency on Althouse comments pages is the one that lumps all Trump critics together, as lefties. And you just did it again.

And allow me to say this: even Althouse doesn't do that. Althouse doesn't do that sort of purification-test aimed at conservatives who criticize Trump. Althouse doesn't do that sort of generalizing about "lefties."

It's a uniquely "commenter" thing.

AJ Lynch said...

"Veteran diplomats said they could not remember a time when a president so regularly undermined his secretary of state so brazenly in the midst of a tense situation. "

Jeez veteran diplomats and the last three elected presidents and their SOS have mishandled all the world's hotspots. Listening to veteran diplomats is as bad as taking advice from the longest tenured players on the Cleveland Browns.

Drago said...

ARM: "Wouldn't it make more sense to give the money to your children to pay for the vastly increased federal debt that we are bequeathing them?"

"vastly increased federal debt"

Define "vastly increased" and when, precisely, this vast increase occurred.

We'll wait.

hombre said...

I’m sorry to see a man of his stature leave so ignominiously. However, it was Trump’s policies, not his own, that he was charged with implementing. Big egos clash.

NYT’s take was interesting: “Veteran diplomats said they could not remember a time when a president so regularly undermined his secretary of state so brazenly....”

How dare Trump not support Tillerson’s policies? How dare he be “brazenly” unsupportive? Meanwhile, cowardly veteran diplomats support their President and their country by anonymously running off at the mouth to NYT mediaswine.

tcrosse said...

Like Comey, Tillerson goes from villain to hero the moment Trump fires him. It's that old Trump Magic.

Drago said...

readering: "So who is next? I say McMaster."

He ought to be, but it will take awhile.

There are some folks in the Labor dept that need to go as well.

We'll let IG Horowitz and the unnamed prosecutor named by Sessions to work hand in glove with Horowitz to take the lead on the FBI/DOJ lefty coup/"insurance policy" plotters clean up.

The Cracker Emcee Classic said...

"Jeez veteran diplomats and the last three elected presidents and their SOS have mishandled all the world's hotspots. Listening to veteran diplomats is as bad as taking advice from the longest tenured players on the Cleveland Browns."

Solid gold.

Drago said...

Looks like they quickly found out who the liar in the State Dept was who issued the fake statement about how Tillerson found out about the firing.

Gen Kelly contacted Tillerson on Friday to resign but the state dept flunky got his lie out there this morning to feed the lefty/LLR narrative.

Well, one less worm Pompeo will have to get rid of.

Drago said...

ARM: "Mission accomplished."

Indeed, since Putin's aims and the dems aims are the same: undermine the sitting President.

Drago said...

Putin's funding of the anti-fracking protests the lefties all attended certainly make alot more sense now.

I wonder what chief anti-Trump putin-funded protest leader Michael Moore thinks of that?

readering said...

Was wrong! Steve Goldstein was next. Who? See Drago post for Trumpian explanation.

hombre said...

Chuck Channeling Schumer wrote: “Wait a minute. What unifies me with "lefties"?...”

You are relentlessly subversive.

Next question.

Drago said...

readering: "See Drago post for Trumpian explanation."

Simple.

Gen Kelly contacted Tillerson last Friday to resign.

Tillerson didn't.

Tillerson gets fired.

Tillerson aide Goldstein feeds fake news to MSM which is then turned into major fake news narrative.

White House investigates the fake news report and fires fake news Goldstein.

Lefties continue 'Apoplexy Level 11'.

Simple.

And you're welcome.

Drago said...

ARM is clearly looking for batteries to fire up his old HP calculator to determine when the "vastly increased" federal debt occurred.

bolivar di griz said...

And so they prove they are in Al queda corner:


http://powerlineblog.com/archives/2018/03/how-the-democrats-will-respond-to-pompeo-and-haspel-nominations.php

readering said...

Simple except State Dept statements accurate, although cast Potus in bad light. But Kelly narrative does undermine theories that timing related to Tillerson conduct on UK poisoning news.

Gahrie said...

Veteran diplomats said they could not remember a time when a president so regularly undermined his secretary of state so brazenly

The way it is supposed to work is that the Secretary of State supports the president's policies.....not the other way around.

readering said...

And I would like to know more about Secretary sick in Kenya story. But who can keep up.

Drago said...

Gahrie: "The way it is supposed to work is that the Secretary of State supports the president's policies.....not the other way around"

Only when democrats are elected.

When republicans are elected the Completely Independent and Totally Official 5th Branch of Government Lefty Dominated Executive Departments are constitutionally required to oppose the President.

Duh.

Drago said...

readering: "Simple except State Dept statements accurate, although cast Potus in bad light."

LOL

Sure they are.

Thats why the Iran deal is Totes Verifiable......

Too easy.

readering said...

Funny Iran deal being undone while POTUS purports to want to deal with N Korea. Chaos.

hombre said...

Blogger readering said... “But Kelly narrative does undermine theories that timing related to Tillerson conduct on UK poisoning news.”

Imagine a world in which idiotic theories like this appear to need “undermining.” It is the leftworld of the likes of readering, Inga, ARM, etc.

Next up:
Blogger readering said... “And I would like to know more about Secretary sick in Kenya story. But who can keep up.”

Seed for a new left theory and more NYT fake news: Tillerson poisoned by Russians or perhaps by Obama’s “birther” grandmother. You know, Trump’s allies. ROTFL!

langford peel said...

I am very concerned at what is happening.

The Globalist General Kelly have eliminated another Trump loyalist who was concerned about the Presidents safety. His personal assistant was run out of the White House. They have tightened the net around him as the people personally loyal to him like Schiller and Hicks are forced out.

I think Trump pulled the trigger in response. He is brining in Pompeo in the hope of turning the tide. I think he wants to accomplish a few things before they get him. Scarp the Iran deal. Put the embassy in Jerusalem. Disarm North Korea. Step back from being the world policeman and picking up the tab for everyone's defense. All things Tillerson was adamantly against.

The God Emperor knows his time is limited. He senses it. I wish that he wouldn't go to California.

Howard said...

Tillerson a phony moron, Trump's a genius

Beloved Commenter AReasonableMan said...

Drago said...
Define "vastly increased"


$1 trillion.

Matthew Sablan said...

"His profound disagreements with the president on policy appeared to be his undoing."

-- Well... yeah. That's how being a subordinate goes sometimes. Especially if you not only disagree but don't fall in line once a decision is made.

wwww said...

Given the timing of this announcement I expect Conor Lamb to win by 20
-John Podhoretz

JUST KIDDING (4)
-John Podhoretz

Wow Tillerson didn't even get to finish his org chart
-John Podhoretz

So if Trump didn't tell Tillerson he was out, who did?
-John Podhoretz

Reality Steve had the Tillerson firing five weeks ago
-John Podhoretz

"Get your hands off me! I'M the bodyman! Do you hear me? I'M the bodyman!"
-John Podhoretz

the bodyman was escorted out before Tillerson was fired and Conor Lamb won in PA 18 and the Martians landed because they've been watching and decided really we can't do this ourselves
-John Podhoretz





cubanbob said...

To be fair to Chuck look at the choice he had to make in November 2016. Vote for the grifter, criminal and traitor or Trump? He chose (wisely) Trump. In 2020 odds are the democrats will nominate an equally execrable nominee as Hillary ( and possibly Hillary again!) and once again with great reluctance Chuck will once again make the right choice. He does like Trump's nominees for federal judges so I give him that. And in general is not that displeased by Trump's actual policies. Its Trumps manner that seems to have Chuck unglued. I do admit sometimes the drama seems a bit much at times but then again all I really care about is the results and so far, they have been mainly good (in my opinion). As for Tillerson, I fault Trump not for the firing but the manner of the dismissal. He should have ask Tillerson to resign effective effective a couple of months from now to let Tillerson finish off a few things and offer a credible fig leaf for him.

wwww said...



Firing by a tweet is better than if Trump just ghosted him
-John Podhoretz

wwww said...


I went to the bathroom. Who got fired.
-John Podhoretz


BREAKING: TRUMP CUTS OFF POWER TO STATE DEPARTMENT BUILDING
-John Podhoretz

grackle said...

From the article:

Veteran diplomats said they could not remember a time when a president so regularly undermined his secretary of state so brazenly in the midst of a tense situation.

From Althouse:

What a dismal finish for this man!

From the comments:

All along, he resisted becoming a Trump-toady; he never had to lie for Trump or about Trump.

Here is a comment I posted here in November of last year in response to a similar comment:

Not agreeing is fine – as long as you keep it a private disagreement between the employee and the employer and out of the news. But if an employee trashes the boss in public then that employee needs to look for employment elsewhere. Trump showed admirable restraint by not firing Tillerson immediately after Tillerson called Trump a “moron.”

Thought experiment: Suppose Tillerson leaves and goes back to his old job as CEO of Exxon. Suppose further that an Exxon employee then publicly calls Tillerson a “moron.” Do we have to wonder if that employee would be fired? Is there any question in anyone’s mind what would happen?


If Tillerson wasn’t willing to carry out Trump’s agenda and keep his disagreements with Trump private instead of public Tillerson should never have taken the job. Be real, anti-Trumpers, and you’ll be more effective in your anti-Trump bullshit. Some of us pro-Trumpers might even listen to you.

Yancey Ward said...

This is the problem right here:

"Veteran diplomats said they could not remember a time when a president so regularly undermined his secretary of state so brazenly in the midst of a tense situation.

The Secretary of State isn't the superior position- if it looks like the SoS is being undermined it is because he isn't actually implementing the policy his boss is setting- and saying so to others. If Tillerson doesn't agree with something, the thing to do is to resign quietly, or at least keep his opinion to a closed meeting with the boss.

Sally327 said...

Why dismal? It's over, he no longer has to keep soldiering on in this thankless job. I would imagine this last year has been really dismal for him and now he's free at last, free at last.

Tillerson's very wealthy, still has his health and his family and he can go back to Dallas and live content that when the call came he served his country, as best as he was able, presumably, given the circumstances.

Daddy Binx said...

Blogger Drago said...
"ARM is clearly looking for batteries to fire up his old HP calculator to determine when the "vastly increased" federal debt occurred."

If you are going to cast shade on my beloved 16C, sir, I shall have to ask you to step outside.

hombre said...

Lefty confusion about the nature of the President as head of the Executive Branch is a holdover from the Obama era.

For example, other than the Iran agreement, placating Muslims and erasing our southern border, Obama had no foreign policy to speak of, so Hillary ran amok. Other than using the DOJ for lawfare and pandering to black activists, Obama had no “justice” policy, so Holder ran amok. As payback for covering his own ineptitude, Obama covered their asses during fallout from screwups like Libya, illegal email servers and Fast and Furious.

The defining characteristic and lifeblood of the criminal conspiracy known as the Democrat Party is ass-covering. The emerging defining characteristic of the Stupid Party, other than the traditional stupidity, appears to be cannibalism.

Krumhorn said...

"Lefties" like Jonah Goldberg, the author of "Liberal Fascism." Lefties like Bill Kristol of the Weekly Standard, Kevin Williamson and Charles C.W. Cooke of National Review. And obviously, a "lefty" like George Will who would not vote for Trump.

Chuckles, I hadn’t earlier noticed your reading disability since I seldom read your comments all the way through. My statement was this:

To see the lefties and the Chuckles with their hair constantly ablaze is an added benefit. Trump fuels their eternal flame.

I’ll speak more slowly...the lefties and the Chuckles

Your statement quoted above reminds me of something someone else brilliantly wrote who could easily have been characterizing your comments on this blog as “the boring moralizing and sanctimonious whimpering of the femmy, bow-tied, submissive branch of conservatism whose obsolete members were shocked to find themselves left behind by the masses to whom these geeks’ sinecures were not the most important objective of the movement”.

OMG!! So on the nose. Wish I’d said that.

- Krumhorn

Drago said...

ARM: "$1 trillion."

I guess you forgot the question.

Lets try again, shall we?

"Define "vastly increased" and when, precisely, this vast increase occurred."

And lets add an additional request: please post a link to any criticism you offered regarding the increasing debt under obama.

Not to worry. We dont expect you to do that. Lets just say that under obambi discussions by democrats of the vastly increased debt was a conversational "no go zone".

Chuck said...

grackle, the Tillerson comment about Trump being a "moron" was made privately.

Now the only -- THE ONLY -- reason I mention that, is because of the number of Trump defenders who claimed that the "shithole countries" comment should not be held against Trump because it was said privately. And people in power should have the freedom to get away from a hostile press and speak candidly in private.

Maybe that is a wholly insufficient answer for you. It might well be. I'm not sure I'd be satisfied myself just leaving it at that.

But more than that, at least Tillerson never falsely denied saying it. Tillerson never lied about it. Like Trump and the White House lied about his having said "shithole countries."

You might be right. Maybe Tillerson should have been fired the next day after Trump determined that Tillerson called Trump a moron. I want you to know; I'd have been fine with that. I sort of wish it had happened that way. It would not have made me think the less of Rex Tillerson. And I'd have been delighted, if it had made the "President Moron" story much bigger. TRUMP FIRES TILLERSON OVER "MORON" COMMENT. I'd have liked that. And certainly not because I think Tillerson did anything wrong. I'd have liked it, the way that it would have made Trump appear.

wwww said...



Night of the Long Tweets

-Kilgore Trout

"WASHINGTON AP-- Officials: White House fires top Tillerson aide who contradicted account of secretary of state's dismissal."

Francisco D said...

ARM: "$1 trillion."

So, you are saying that Trump has lowered deficit spending from the Obama years (total over 8 years = $10 trillion).

It's not ideal, but it's going in the right direction.

It's also fun to see the lefties rediscover the horrors of deficit spending when a Republican is in the White House.

It seems that I have sen this movie many times.

Drago said...

I see LLR and #StrongLeftyNarrativeBooster Chuck is once again tiptoeing thru the fantasy tulips of his mind wherein Trump is failing and the dems are re-empowered.

Oh what joyous and heady thoughts for our #StrongDurbinDefender.

Chuck said...

Krumhorn:

Point taken, my friend!

So I am not a "lefty." I am merely "like" the lefties, insofar as we are all opposed to Trump. Or something like that.

I'd like you to please have a word with Drago, who never misses a day of berating me as a real, live leftist. A supporter, of left-wing Democrats and a stealth (or not stealth) proponent of the left's causes.

I like your style, by the way. Seriously, I do. You are someone who'd appreciate the writing of Kevin Williamson almost exactly two years ago, in National Review:

The truth about these dysfunctional, downscale communities is that they deserve to die. Economically, they are negative assets. Morally, they are indefensible. Forget all your cheap theatrical Bruce Springsteen crap. Forget your sanctimony about struggling Rust Belt factory towns and your conspiracy theories about the wily Orientals stealing our jobs. Forget your goddamned gypsum, and, if he has a problem with that, forget Ed Burke, too. The white American underclass is in thrall to a vicious, selfish culture whose main products are misery and used heroin needles. Donald Trump’s speeches make them feel good. So does OxyContin. What they need isn’t analgesics, literal or political. They need real opportunity, which means that they need real change, which means that they need U-Haul.


https://www.nationalreview.com/magazine/2016/03/28/father-f-hrer/

Yancey Ward said...

From Chuck:

"THE ONLY -- reason I mention that, is because of the number of Trump defenders who claimed that the "shithole countries" comment should not be held against Trump because it was said privately."

Can you pull up some of those Trump supporters comments? Because my memory says that Trump supporters said that it shouldn't be held against Trump because the sentiment was accurate. Some certainly critiqued Durbin for running to the media immediately after the closed door meeting, but I don't remember a single Trump supporter giving Trump a "pass" for that reason. I mean, you don't have to defend Tillerson for calling Trump a moron by claiming it was made privately- you can just describe it as accurate, too, if you want (and I am sure you do think that). However, your projection of your own reasoning onto others is a bridge too far.

Yancey Ward said...

You can't publicly continue to oppose the policies laid down by the President if you are the Secretary of State. That is what got Tillerson canned in the end. There is room for making your opinion known, but it doesn't include making such statements publicly unless you have resigned first.

Drago said...

LLR and #StrongCNNDefender Chuck:I'd like you to please have a word with Drago, who never misses a day of berating me as a real, live leftist."

False. Demonstrably so.

I simply make note of your continuous day to day operational alignment with your lefty allies.

I care not a whit how you self-label.

Feel free to post evidence to the contrary.

Drago said...

YW: "Can you pull up some of those Trump supporters comments? Because my memory says that Trump supporters said that it shouldn't be held against Trump because the sentiment was accurate."

Unexpectedly, LLR Chuck purposefully mischaracterizes what was actually written by those that do not reflexively oppose Trump.

Hmmmm, just like all the leftists.

Feel free to draw obvious conclusions.

Chuck said...

Yancey Ward -- oh, you are so right! There were some Trump supporters who thought that the "shithole countries" comment was blunt, unvarnished truth!

And some thought that it should have been kept private by the meeting participants.

And I think some Trump supporters -- perhaps you among them -- thought both things. That Trump was right to have said it, and whoever leaked word of it is the guy who really broke ranks with decent and honest dialogue.

I get all of that. I got it all along.

Now my question for you is if it was so right and so true for Trump to have made that observation, then why deny it? Why not own the statement? My understanding is that privately, Trump thought the whole thing did play well with his base, for the very reasons you are citing.

So why deny it?

I used to really like Sen. Tom Cotton. But I will never think quite the same of him, after his mendacious waffling on the meeting and what Trump said. These repeated lies are not without consequences.

Beloved Commenter AReasonableMan said...

Francisco D said...
it's going in the right direction


You are completely delusional on this topic. Trump and the republicans have made the deficit go up, dramatically.

Drago said...

LLR and #StrongDurbinDefender Chuck: "I used to really like Sen. Tom Cotton. But I will never think quite the same of him, ..."

Anyone who gets in the way of Durbin will incur LLR Chuck's eternal enmity.

Drago said...

ARM: " Trump and the republicans have made the deficit go up, dramatically."

LOL

Obama increased our national debt by $10T in 8 years.

The total first year deficit for Trump was $660B or so.

Thank you ARM for becoming very very very concerned about the deficit/debt for the first time about 2 months ago.

We appreciate the "sincerity" of that concern.

Jim at said...

Strange, how just hours after Tillerson said the UK spy poisoning “clearly came from Russia” he was fired. - The person who promised to stay off this blog until Trump was indicted.

But I thought Trump hired Tillerson as a favor to Putin.
Now you're saying he was fired as a favor to Putin?

I wish you idiots would let us know which conspiracy theory we're supposed to be following today.

Drago said...

LLR Chuck: "My understanding is that privately, Trump thought the whole thing did play well with his base...."

I'll have to check the reruns of Maddow to see if that was her "understanding" as well......

Drago said...

Jim at: "I wish you idiots would let us know which conspiracy theory we're supposed to be following today."

LLR Chuck is an excellent barometer of the lefty talking points and focus each day. One need look no further to gain insight into where the next dem attacks will be coming from.

Drago said...

ARM: "You are completely delusional on this topic."

Golden showers boy says what?

Beloved Commenter AReasonableMan said...

Drago has put his fingers in his ears and is going Nyah, Nyah, Nyah. It's an approach, I guess.

Doesn't change the fact that the deficits are going up, dramatically.

Drago said...

ARM: "Drago has put his fingers in his ears and is going Nyah, Nyah, Nyah. It's an approach, I guess"

Doesn't change the fact that obama added $10T to our debt in just 8 years.

Doesn't change the fact that Trump's first year deficit was approx $660B.

Go ahead ARM. Do. The. Math.

Or don't.

After all, according to the left math is a social construct designed to perpetuate the white supremacist patriarchy.

Drago said...

Don't worry ARM. Your rather sad attempts to transfer obama's debt to Trump will no doubt get a boost from LLR Chuck any minute now.

You could use the help.

Gahrie said...

The truth about these dysfunctional, downscale communities is that they deserve to die. Economically, they are negative assets. Morally, they are indefensible. Forget all your cheap theatrical Rev. Sharpton crap. Forget your sanctimony about struggling inner cities and your conspiracy theories about Whitey stealing your jobs. Forget your goddamned gypsum, and, if he has a problem with that, forget Ed Burke, too. The black American underclass is in thrall to a vicious, selfish culture whose main products are misery and the thug life. Leftwing speeches make them feel good. So does purple drank. What they need isn’t analgesics, literal or political. They need real opportunity, which means that they need real change, which means that they need U-Haul.

FTFY

Nonapod said...

Although I will admit that there certainly seems to be a fair number of UK based Russian expats who are having unfortunate "accidents" recently. Somewhat humorously, the gang over at ZH are insisting it's all a false flag perpetuated by MI6.

grackle said...

grackle, the Tillerson comment about Trump being a "moron" was made privately.

By definition ANYTHING that appears in the news is not “private.”

Now the only -- THE ONLY -- reason I mention that, is because of the number of Trump defenders who claimed that the "shithole countries" comment should not be held against Trump because it was said privately. And people in power should have the freedom to get away from a hostile press and speak candidly in private.

I am not one of those “defenders” mentioned by the commentor. I liked the
“shithole” comment and was disappointed to realize later that Trump didn’t actually say it. We’ve needed some blunt language from a POTUS for a long time.

But more than that, at least Tillerson never falsely denied saying it. Tillerson never lied about it. Like Trump and the White House lied about his having said "shithole countries."

I rarely pay attention to Dick Durbin or Jeff Flake. Those were the two who invented the non-existent “bullshit countries” comment. None of the other attendees at the meeting would confirm it.

You might be right. Maybe Tillerson should have been fired the next day after Trump determined that Tillerson called Trump a moron. I want you to know; I'd have been fine with that.

Actually, I NEVER said Tillerson should have been fired immediately. This commentor has a history of jumping to conclusions. He did it with the “bullshit countries” comment by taking Durbin and Flake’s bullshit accusation as the truth and he is doing it now with me. And I do not believe that this commentor would be “fine” with anything regarding Trump.

I sort of wish it had happened that way. It would not have made me think the less of Rex Tillerson. And I'd have been delighted, if it had made the "President Moron" story much bigger. TRUMP FIRES TILLERSON OVER "MORON" COMMENT. I'd have liked that. And certainly not because I think Tillerson did anything wrong. I'd have liked it, the way that it would have made Trump appear.

The commentor claims to be a lawyer in a law firm. I invite the commentor to call the head of his law firm a “moron” and see how fast he is fired. As I said before: Trump showed admirable restraint. And of course, as we all know – this commentor hates Trump and would welcome and promote anything that might put Trump in a bad light. He is always eager to believe the worst, eager to join in with the MSM and the Democrats in anything that might tarnish Trump.

James K said...

“since ’94, when the Republicans abandoned their Washington Generals model of governing”

That happened? Could have fooled me. On the domestic front, W pretty much gave away the store, and even when they controlled Congress under Obama they prevented or undid nothing.

Sebastian said...

So, when is he gonna fire the Labor Sec?

I Callahan said...

An old Althouse poll, where readers were voting that Trump and Tillerson were coordinating a good cop-bad cop routine, or else Trump was supplying a special Trumpian kind of backup to Tillerson:

So much for Trump's "wonderful" Secretary of State. The "fine-tuned machine" that is the Trump White House.


With time comes wisdom. People thought than then; they don’t now. You really ought to take that advice yourself, instead of bleating the same “I told you so” every single day.

grackle said...

Now my question for you is if it was so right and so true for Trump to have made that observation, then why deny it?

I wasn’t asked but will reply anyway: Trump denied it because it wasn’t true. The commentor deplores Cotton and believes Cotton lied but swallows what Durbin, Flake and their MSM helpmates claim without a hiccup.

wildswan said...

I suspect that Tillerson's main achievement had to do with getting various countries to accept the reality of the US fracking industry. And I see that Tillerson was fired just as it became clear that certain countries will go bankrupt as a result of US oil output and that Russia will become dependent on oil sales to China. Probably Tillerson did as much as anyone with his approach could do to handle the effect of US oil production on the rest of the world but the world changed - due in part to his own initiatives - and his time was over. I feel as if I'm being cold about someone (Tillerson) who served this country well but Trump fires people - unless they quit first - when the situation changes and new insight is needed. Unlike CBS?NBC?ABC/wapo.

Krumhorn said...

You are someone who'd appreciate the writing of Kevin Williamson almost exactly two years ago, in National Review

I’m pleased to report that between the NYT and NR, I have plenty of insulation for the walls of the pig stalls in my barn project.

- Krumhorn

Beloved Commenter AReasonableMan said...

Nothing you say Drago changes the fact that the fiscal year federal deficit is going up not down.

Exactly the wrong thing to do.

All the whataboutism in the world doesn't change that fact.

Beloved Commenter AReasonableMan said...

US monthly deficit largest in 6 years

James K said...

“Exactly the wrong thing to do.”

I believe deficits started being wrong in January 2017.

grackle said...

A tip to the anti-Trump folks: Stick to anti-Trump stuff that is verifiable and recorded – like, for instance, the “grabbing their pussy” Billy Bush recording. It was purposefully misinterpreted by the anti-Trumper Repubs, the MSM and the Democrats but at least it was concrete and open to everyone’s examination.

Drago said...

ARM: "Nothing you say Drago changes the fact that the fiscal year federal deficit is going up not down."

Nothing you say ARM changes the fact that the fiscal year deficit in Trump first year is half of what it was for Obama's average deficits over 8 years.

And nothing changes the fact that you never cared about nor posted about deficits/debt during obama's entire tenure.

Which makes your posts here so very, very amusing.

Beloved Commenter AReasonableMan said...

This is, of course, bullshit. The deficits that Obama inherited from Bush were made much worse by Bush's tax cuts. I have made that point repeatedly. Republicans are fiscally irresponsible.

Drago said...

James K: "I believe deficits started being wrong in January 2017."

January 20, 2017, to be precise.

Very very wrong.

And probably impeachable. We won't know for sure until Mueller and his team of democrat hacks complete their investigation into Deficit Collusion.

Drago said...

ARM: "The deficits that Obama inherited from Bush..."

LOL

Wow.

ARM is literally arguing now that Bush is responsible for obama's deficits/debt increases and Trump simply picked up where Bush left off.

If ONLY we had been lucky enough to have a dem President in office from 2009 to 2017.

Then we could have done something about those republican deficits!

Thanks for the insight ARM!

Fantastic. You have outdone yourself and, quite frankly, LLR Chuck could not have done better.

Kudos.

Beloved Commenter AReasonableMan said...

If Bush had been fiscally responsible, the Bush Great Recession would have been less severe and in particular the blowout in the deficit would have been much less. Deficits decreased throughout the Obama era but the baseline was too high to start with because of Bush and his stupid tax cuts.

Drago said...

The only question remaining for ARM and his LLR allies is whether or not Bush AND Trump colluded with Putin to increase obama's deficits and debt.

It Rosenstein doesn't expand the Mueller probe to include this aspect then you know white supremacy is running rampant in the halls of govt.

We simply must get to the bottom of it. For ARM's sake.

langford peel said...

Blame Bush,

Glad you went back to the old playbook.

Blaming the Russians is just not working our for you.

Drago said...

ARM: "...the Bush Great Recession..."

" Deficits decreased throughout the Obama era but the baseline was too high to start with because of Bush and his stupid tax cuts."

LOL

Obama and the democrats had complete control of the govt (including a filibuster proof majority in the Senate) in obama's first term.

But they did nothing.

Literally nothing.

You know why?

Racism. Putin. White supremacy. Trump. Bush. A couple of guys singing around a garbage can fire. Global Warming.

That's why.

Drago said...

If only Trump hadn't fired Tillerson, obama could have gotten those deficits under control.

Stupid Trump.

Char Char Binks said...

"There were some Trump supporters who thought that the "shithole countries" comment was blunt, unvarnished truth!

And some thought that it should have been kept private by the meeting participants.

And I think some Trump supporters -- perhaps you among them -- thought both things.

So why deny it?"

Just because it's true that those countries are shitholes doesn't mean that Trump said it. That may be one reason to deny saying it.

The fact that whatever was said was said in private with the expectation that that privacy would be be respected is a good reason it should have been kept private, and a good reason for Trump to deny saying it, whether he said it or not.

Wow, that was easy.

Protip for Chuck: Try not to be such a 'tard.

Beloved Commenter AReasonableMan said...

There is a reason why Bush Jr is viewed as the worst president of the modern era.

Bruce Bartlett's book was entitled 'Imposter' because the Jr was a fraud, not the slightest bit fiscally disciplined, which lead to both the Great Bush Recession and the massive deficits. These facts are not in dispute. It was why Obama was elected so resoundingly.

langford peel said...

If Bush is so horrible why do you and Chuck and the media get your panties all in a twist that Trump is not more like him? You lose it when Trump refuses to take a beat down in the press nonstop the way that pussy Bush did.

George W Bush and Barack Obama is why you got Trump.

As much as you bitch and moan Trump will never act like Bush or Obama. A gentleman loser or a Racialist Empty suit.

Trump has his faults. But he puts America and the American people first.

langford peel said...

Obama was reelected because Romney was a weak kneeded pussy.

The perfect National Review Chuck candidate.

langford peel said...

The verdict of history is still to be written.

Barack Obama will drop down once his reign is judged with a little perspective. Especially when measured against the accomplishments of the Trump administration.

I am confident that Trump will go down as one of the most effective conservative Presidents since Calvin Coolidge. Better than Reagan. His legacy in the Judiciary alone will secure him that place.

Watch and see.

Chuck said...

Some days things just go really easily.

At 1:28, Yancey Ward demands to know where I found any Althouse commenters who held the view that Trump's "shithole countries" comment should not be held against Trump because it was stated privately:


And then, without my lifting a finger other than to click, Char Char Binks supplies me with an exemplar:

Char Char Binks said...
"There were some Trump supporters who thought that the "shithole countries" comment was blunt, unvarnished truth!

And some thought that it should have been kept private by the meeting participants.

And I think some Trump supporters -- perhaps you among them -- thought both things.

So why deny it?"

Just because it's true that those countries are shitholes doesn't mean that Trump said it. That may be one reason to deny saying it.

The fact that whatever was said was said in private with the expectation that that privacy would be be respected is a good reason it should have been kept private, and a good reason for Trump to deny saying it, whether he said it or not.

Wow, that was easy.

Protip for Chuck: Try not to be such a 'tard.
3/13/18, 3:41 PM

I will try not to be "tard." But before I do that, I just want to say again that, yeah, some Trump fans think so strongly that Trump's "shithole countries" comment was made in a private setting, that some of them think that it gave Trump license to even lie about whether he said it at all. Like, uh, Char Char Binks.

And I don't think that Professor Althouse would like to see you trotting out Fourth/Fifth Amendment rubric like "expectation of privacy" in this context. If we assume that Dick Durbin leaked the news of the comment, Dick Durbin was a participant in the conversation. Not an eavesdropping detective, or a nosy employer scanning your computer. Trump said what he said in an unclassified meeting. A legislative negotiation. There's no legal "expectation of privacy."

Drago said...

ARM pretending to care about deficits is the funniest thing to appear on Althouse today.

Truly entertaining.

And its even funnier with LLR Chuck running interference for his lefty allies from the other side (supposedly).

Drago said...

Wow. LLR Chuck is working overtime in defense of his beloved Durbin.

If I was Maddow I'd be jealous.

Char Char Binks said...

All African and Mid East countries are shitholes. It's not even debatable.

"Durbin was a participant in the conversation.", a PRIVATE conversation, which is why he shouldn't have tattled. It's not a Constitutional crisis, just a matter of Durbin being a Dick.

langford peel said...

The fact is they are shit hole countries. You can't get around that fact. The thing is country club rhino fancy boys need them to be maids and landscapers. That they can pay below minimum wage.

We can do just fine without any more of the refuse of these shitholes.

Chuck will just have to hire an American as his nanny.

As the God Emperor has said....we need more Norwegians. Maybe we can do better at the Winter Olympics next time.

langford peel said...

The more you look at it ....illegal immigration is slow motion slavery. Something that the Republican party was against until it was taken over by country club Republicans. Democrats and their LLR enablers just love that slave labor paid a pittance.

The God Emperor stands up for the working man. All those steel workers and miners you saw at the press conference announcing the tariffs that are making the Rhinos shit a hemorrhage. Those guys are not going to forget that when the election rolls around. Their wives and families are not going to forget either.

Drago said...

ARM: "There is a reason why Bush Jr is viewed as the worst president of the modern era."

Online leftist references other leftists to deliver the leftist assessment of a non-leftists performance.

LOL

This just in, Kremlin Insiders quoted in Pravda think the Soviet Union will someday overtake the US economically.

Chuck said...

langford peel said...
The fact is they are shit hole countries. You can't get around that fact. The thing is country club rhino fancy boys need them to be maids and landscapers. That they can pay below minimum wage.

We can do just fine without any more of the refuse of these shitholes.
...


So weird, then, that the Trump White House denied that Trump said it.

Drago said...

LLR Chuck: "So weird, then, that the Trump White House denied that Trump said it."

Its very important to the lefties and their LLR allies to keep all focus off the economy and the continued squeezing of ISIS, amongst other issues advantageous for conservatives.

LLR Chuck can always be counted on to do his part for the lefty Daily Narrative team.

Drago said...

Trump addressing the Marines at Miramar and getting laughs about the obvious and undeniable "fake news" media.

Can you imagine how much that pisses off LLR Chuck?

LOL

Drago said...

Iran is front and center in Trump's speech at Miramar and the stupid obama/clinton/kerry Iran payoff to murderous mullahs is coming in for alot of deserved criticism.

Gee, I can't imagine why Trump wanted the Save The Iran Deal Now! secretary of state outta there before this speech.

It's inexplicable I tell ya!

langford peel said...

"So weird, then, that the Trump White House denied that Trump said it."

Because he didn't say it. Dickless Durbin said he did. A proven liar and a man who compared our soldiers to Nazi's. Senator Tom Cotton said he did not say it. An honest man and an American Hero. Who do you believe?

Of course our LLR only believes Democrats. Never Republicans.

Unexpectedly.

Drago said...

Peel: "Dickless Durbin said he did."

For LLR Chuck, that's as good as if the report issued forth from the Burning Bush.

Drago said...

For War Hero Tom Cotten's sake, I certainly hope that Stolen Valor Blumenthal doesn't start attacking Cotten because that will give the green light to LLR Chuck to go after Cotten in a no-holds-barred sort of way.

Beloved Commenter AReasonableMan said...

On Russian sanctions.

Drago said...

I don't blame ARM for changing the subject to another nonsensical assertion.

He's been failing all day.

Failing so much its making LLR Chuck uncomfortable.

Come on ARM. Up your game. Your teammates need you.

Beloved Commenter AReasonableMan said...

This, from a man who voted for Bush Jr, twice. Apparently you don't know what failure looks like.

Drago said...

ARM: "This, from a man who voted for Bush Jr, twice. Apparently you don't know what failure looks like."

Nonsense.

I'm staring at your posting right now.

Drago said...

You know what failure looks like?

Increasing the national debt by $10T in 8 years, pretending that you fixed the economy, then blaming the economy on your predecessor, claiming your successor will ruin the economy, then claiming credit for your successors economy, then having your online minions reassert your lack of responsibility for your 8 years in office.

#Democrat&LLRWinning

Drago said...

No one tell ARM that its not Bush "jr". The only "jr" was Gore. He of illegal chinese foreign money payoff fame.

To be fair to Gore, he learned how to do that from the Clintons.

More importantly to the Gore Family fortune was the payoffs from Armand Hammer and Occidental Petroleum, the Soviets favorite western oil company.

Talk about collusion!

Beloved Commenter AReasonableMan said...

Again, Bush Jr was a spectacular failure. A failure for the ages. A once in a lifetime failure. And no I very much doubt that Trump can do worse. To fail so spectacularly and so comprehensively requires a unique combination of talents. One must be both be spectacularly wrong, on pretty much everything, and also effective at advancing insane policies. The Bush/Cheney combination is unlikely to be repeated any time soon.

Birkel said...

The year over year increase in the federal debt is what matters. All the spending Obama did "off book" that did not count toward the reported deficit allows ARM to be a poorly informed blog commenter.

Tighten the language and talk about YOY increase in debt. ARM is then disarmed.

Drago said...

VOX Boy ARM: "Again, Bush Jr was a spectacular failure."

No no no!

You have to close your eyes and click your heels together 3 times to make it so.

Try again...

Drago said...

Look ARM, just because W didn't accept illegal foreign commie cash like the dems doesn't make him a failure.

Unless he's being judged on the amount of foreign commie cash received.

Drago said...

In any event, Tillerson is out and State Dept flunkies now have to look over their shoulders at an insider who is well aware of the standard establishment/obama/clinton/kerry shenanigans and how to stop it.

Francisco D said...

ARM: "You are completely delusional on this topic. Trump and the republicans have made the deficit go up, dramatically."

Numbers are objective. You obviously do not understand numbers. I pointed out that Trump's deficits (which I do not support) are 20%+ lower than Obama's.

Maybe you are not delusional, just incredibly stupid.

You are already well established as a bald faced liar on this site.

I guess thats what "reasonable" leftists do.

grackle said...

So weird, then, that the Trump White House denied that Trump said it.

Weird? To point out that something is not true? What’s weird to me is that some are apparently puzzled by this. Stick to Trump’s tweets and other verifiable, concrete issues rather than slander from the likes of Durbin and Flake (what an apt name!). You’ll gain in credibility and live a happier comment life.

Beloved Commenter AReasonableMan said...

Francisco D said...
Numbers are objective. You obviously do not understand numbers. I pointed out that Trump's deficits (which I do not support) are 20%+ lower than Obama's.


Numbers are objective but can also be misused as you are doing.

After the tax cuts the deficits will go up, significantly. To levels higher than at the end of Obama's tenure. No sane person believes otherwise, because the numbers quite clearly say this. If you dramatically reduce income while increasing spending there is no other option.

Chuck said...

Dick Durbin says that Trump said it.
Jeff Flake says that he met with all of the Republicans in the meeting, immediately after the meeting, and they all confirmed it.
Lindsey Graham mostly confirmed it; he was being painfully polite about it.
But Time Scott said that he spoke with Graham on the phone as soon as he (Scott) heard about it and Graham confirmed it.
The Homeland Security chief didn't deny it; she said (incredibly) that she didn't hear it.
Tom Cotton and David Perdue had two or three different stories over time, finally settling on the story that they did not hear the words in question.
The White House deflected; admitting that "tough language" was used, and only when pressed and pressed again did the White House finally deny it. The first reaction had been a non-answer.

grackle if you want to claim that Trump never said it, fine. Trump never said it. Trump never said the thing that so many commenters on this blog think was an important, blunt, straightforward, true thing. Trump never said it. Got it.

Sebastian said...

"Dick Durbin says that Trump said it."

Whether he said it or something close to it, the political point, as we've discussed before but you once again refuse to acknowledge, is that Trump responded forcefully to Durbin and Graham trying to screw him with an expanded amnesty deal he hadn't agreed to. Durbin then doubled down on the screwing by exposing the conversation in an attempt to undermine Trump and screw him in public opinion when he couldn't succeed at the White House.

No "lifelong Republican" would stand for such dirty pool.

Drago said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Drago said...

VOX Boy ARM: "Numbers are objective but can also be misused as you are doing"

Indeed.

For instance, some might be under the impression that obambi had been President for 8 years, but thats where numbers can fool you.

The VOX/ARM "reality based" community insists that in terms of deficits and national debt W was president for 15 years and Trump has already been President for 2 and a half.

That and its really the Right that is shutting down debate and stifling free speech! (yes, really!)

I dont believe even LLR Chuck could spin furiously enough to salvage ARMs latest VOX driven hot takes.

Chuck said...

Sebastian said...
"Dick Durbin says that Trump said it."

Whether he said it or something close to it, the political point, as we've discussed before but you once again refuse to acknowledge, is that Trump responded forcefully to Durbin and Graham trying to screw him with an expanded amnesty deal he hadn't agreed to. Durbin then doubled down on the screwing by exposing the conversation in an attempt to undermine Trump and screw him in public opinion when he couldn't succeed at the White House.
...


Of course, the reason that Durbin and Graham were so hacked off, was because they went to the White House expecting that they would meet with Trump and present to him the outline of a deal for which they could together get 60 votes in the Senate. And when they got there, they were surprised that all the immigration hawks had gathered, to tell Trump to shoot it down. This was not too long after Trump told the world on live television, in front of a bipartisan group that included Durbin and Graham and others, that he (Trump) would not place his own demands on a deal that the bipartisan group had reached. Trump said he'd "take the heat" for Democrats and Republicans whos base voter groups denounced any deal.

My own policy views on immigration are much like Sen. Tom Cotton's.

But what I refuse to set aside is my personal hatred of Trump and my offense at his constant, unprincipled, reckless lying. I'd have had more respect for Trump and for Cotton if they had both come clean on the "shithead countries" comment by Trump. I think it was a stupid thing for Trump to say. Stupid Thing Number 101,099 in the case of Donald Trump.

Trump, unlike almost any other person in public life in America, has earned his hatred.

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