Reports Crain's Chicago Business.
To my heart, the saddest part of the story is that the students who supported him only offered their support privately.
"He could not fathom why he couldn't say it," said Carli Wright, one of the students who filed the complaint.You certainly have a choice about how to fight. You don't have to file a complaint against the teacher. You can engage him in debate and try to persuade him to change. He's saying he's open to using another approach. And I understand the problem you have with his use of a method that entails deliberately offending you. He's trying to get studentsto understand a legal doctrine, but there is a problem with imposing more of a burden on the students who are in the traditionally burdened group and are also the minority in the classroom. And yet by filing a complaint, you give him the (dubious) honor of victimhood. I don't think that's the most effective way to get what you want.
But using the actual slur, Hermann explained, illustrates just how much provocation the courts require before they view a provocateur as an aggressor. "The meaning wouldn't convey the same way if I said it was 'a racial slur' or even if I said it was 'an African-American racial slur.' It's part of the contemporary situation . . . and the need to take into consideration these special sensitivities," Hermann said in an interview. Yet in criminal law, students are training to become prosecutors, public defenders and private defense attorneys. "If this word interferes with their functioning, being a lawyer is probably not a thing they should be doing."
Hermann, who said he's been teaching law since 1972, added that he regrets causing personal hurt and is open to using alternative language.....
When Hermann used the N-word in class last week, Nikki Childers felt her classmates' eyes swivel toward her. "I was posed with the question: Do I become the stereotypically angry black woman, which is what they expect me to be?" she said. "It was like, damned if I do, damned if I don't. This is a fighting word, and I now have to fight you. I don't have a choice."
But I do strongly agree with you that a professor should not be using the "n-word" — especially in a hypothetical as opposed to an actual case. And I really don't like hearing a law professor tell first-year students that if they don't like it they might not have what it takes to be a lawyer. It's terrible to aim that message at the minority students, and it's not even true. There are many different kinds of jobs for lawyers, and you can find a path that fits you. It's so easy to think — when you're one year into it — that lawyers are awful people and I don't belong here. A law professor should not exacerbate that feeling!
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172 comments:
If I can hear the fucking word 2,000 times a day on the radio, I can say it.
Until there is a movement to force Blacks generally and rappers specifically to stop using the word..I don't want to hear it.
Saying there is a word that I am not allowed to use, but you are, based solely on the color of our skins...is fucking racism!
But I do strongly agree with you that a professor should not be using the "n-word" — especially in a hypothetical as opposed to an actual case
How do you feel about rappers and Black people in general using the word then?
What other words are law professors, or me, not allowed to use?
Are there any words that rappers or Black people aren't allowed to use?
Your first response to a claim that a professor isn't allowed to use a word in class should have been ridicule, not agreement.
The listener has complete control to neutralize any power the speaker is attempting to assert by speaking the word. If no one is offended then the use of the word would likely cease.
-sw
I agree with this post.
We should limit the free speech of professors in the classroom.
By all means let's tell them what they can say.
Sounds like the professor is saying that as prosecutors, the students may encounter the slur from time to time. They need to be able to handle it professionally, even though it upsets them. That's his fucking point! If your instinct is to go cry to mommy that someone said a bad word, find a different line of work.
It's worth remembering that the notion that "the n-word" is magic and so destructive that its mere pronouncement out loud is forbidden arose because Johnny Cochran cleverly deployed the concept to get his client off from a double murder charge. But the word isn't magic. It's offensive when used offensively, but not when used otherwise, any more than a plethora of other derogatory terms that we somehow manage to come to grips with. I respect Johnny Cochran's legal strategy, but I'm damned if I'll let that cause a word to become off-limits. And if any further evidence is needed, reread Huckleberry Finn and its glorious passage in which Huck makes the moral choice of going to Hell rather than giving up his runaway slave friend.
He should identify as a black man. Problem solved. Well other than cleaning up the liberal heads that explode.
Maybe will can limit the free speech of professors on a blog.
Or ex-professors.
My questions to Nikki Childers would be, as a black woman, have you ever referred to another black person as a nigger or have you ever used that word to describe another black person either to their face or behind their back? Have you ever used that word in anger or have you called a white person a nigger?
I have sent a great deal of time on Chicago's south side and I can tell you unequivocally that a great many black people use that word constantly to describe themselves, other blacks and whites. For her to get upset is to play the Black Privilege card.
Well, OK, but can he say motherfucker?
That article doesn't provide adequate context.
The reaction is likely supporting his framing.
<
When Hermann used the N-word in class last week, Nikki Childers felt her classmates' eyes swivel toward her. "I was posed with the question: Do I become the stereotypically angry black woman, which is what they expect me to be?" she said. "It was like, damned if I do, damned if I don't. This is a fighting word, and I now have to fight you. I don't have a choice."
--
I hope she did the classic side to side head movement with that spineless statement.
This is just politically correct bullshit.
Why can't we just call a spade a spade?
This is how you get more Trump.
Thanks Kizzie.
What's supposed to happen when a tender African-American law student hears or reads the "n-word" without knowing the race of the speaker/author? Are they traumatized, or do they just ignore it, as when used by a black person? Or do they exist in limbo until the race of the speaker/author is discovered -- Schroedinger's n-word?
What if the word is used by someone of mixed race -- does it depend on how black they look to the putatively traumatized audience?
This is all a BS political power play, and only a credulous sufferer of white guilt would fall for it.
Here's where our beloved Hostess shows her naivete.
The Left is a roving mob of weirdo psychopaths who use "Alice-in Wonderland"-like logic to harass, browbeat and ultimately fire people they don't like. It's a POWER game.
Are they protesting the use of the N-Word in practically every Rap song they listen to on the radio, or is that ok?
I don't know this law professor, he may be a liberal ex-hippie, but I assume he is actually trying to teach kids in good faith how to think. That means challenging them. That means posing tough hypothetical questions. That means learning how to argue your opponent's points as well as yours - to get to the truth.
Althouse, these leftists would have tried to get you fired, if they could. They would have tried to sack your career, your pension, your reputation, if they felt that you were in the enemy (i.e, conservative) camp.
That's how they roll. Don't be naive.
And, at the Universities, there isn't an equivalent roving band of PC police on the right.
I'm sorry, but I can't believe that there are black people in this country who didn't hear that word multiple times a week, & not always in a nice, joking way, from other black people. If some gang of white guys blocks you on the street & calls you a n****r to your face, well, that's way past "Them's fightin' words, O'Malley". But, to have some law professor use it in a hypothetical in a class on "fighting words" law, to get bent out of shape about that?
Law school is grad school. There's a lot of ugly shit in the world, and I would hope that by the age where one is in grad school a person has toughened up enough to deal with it.
We as a society really need to work on courage. I'm sure that the courage that blacks learned in the military in WWII & Korea served them well when they turned that courage towards the struggle for civil rights.
The Left is a roving mob of weirdo psychopaths who use "Alice-in Wonderland"-like logic
Althouse does too....
Nigger is a black activism asset. For some reason people go along with it.
Gahrie is correct. I listen to a lot of rap by osmosis, and the music is ridiculous with that word. It has to be the most common word used by Black rap artists, right up there with "I", "my", and "bitches". So if it's that offensive, how can you listen to that, play it, and pay for it? In fact, it's the main hook. Virtually mandatory in every song.
Spare me the pretend offense, which is really nothing more than a power play. It's racism straight up. Blacks have taught themselves to be offended by White people, and they jump on command, unthinking, hating, and racist. I have no right to tell Blacks what words they can use, but that right must be reciprocal, or we are not equal, and we are saying Blacks are inferior without even the self control to deal with common words.
"It was like, damned if I do, damned if I don't. This is a fighting word, and I now have to fight you. I don't have a choice."
BS, you always have a choice. For example, you could choose to tell the professor you find that word extremely offensive and give him the chance to explain why he chose it. Both of you would have advanced your knowledge from such an exchange; he would hear first hand why that particular word is so offensive to you, and you would have heard how he chose the word to make his point because it is one of the few truly offensive words left in the language.
-sw
He probably said, "niggardly."
The whole idea that there are magic words is a medieval concept, like "blaspheming the Holy Ghost," that needs to be rejected nowadays.
Such racism as there is is reluctant racism, disappointment with blacks sabotaging themselves, and wondering if it's genetic (which makes it racist literally).
If somebody says nigger in a way that would hurt blacks' feelings he suffers reduced social status as somebody who doesn't wish blacks did better. That's a low status position.
Nigger as rogue sentiment is positive. Independent of the Man, makes his own way.
Context is everything.
Such racism as there is is reluctant racism, disappointment with blacks sabotaging themselves, and wondering if it's genetic (which makes it racist literally).
No, that makes it "racial," which is not the same as "racist."
Been teaching law since 1972?
Heavily influenced by The Paper Chase, presumably.
It seems that this is clear evidence that some students just aren't prepared for law school or the legal profession.
I can tell you from my experience that Ann does limit free speech on her blog when it comes to that word . And she has the right to since it is her blog.
"... but there is a problem with imposing more of a burden on the students who are in the traditionally burdened group and are also the minority in the classroom."
Are you insinuating that blacks are emotionally weak and can't handle it? And why are they burdened in the first place?
"He could not fathom why he couldn't say it," said Carli Wright, one of the students who filed the complaint.
This strikes me as so improbable it borders on impossible. What seems clear is that she either does understand any viewpoint other than her own or finds it politically expedient to pretend no other thoughts are conceivable.
But using the actual slur, Hermann explained, illustrates just how much provocation the courts require before they view a provocateur as an aggressor. "The meaning wouldn't convey the same way if I said it was 'a racial slur' or even if I said it was 'an African-American racial slur.' It's part of the contemporary situation .
This suggests he's quoting something. Those pushing the controversy are going to great lengths to obscure this.
Fighting words indeed. This is why students should be allowed to carry firearms, so they can draw and shoot in situations like this.
I really don't like hearing a law professor tell first-year students that if they don't like it they might not have what it takes to be a lawyer.
Even if it is true ?
"How do you feel about rappers and Black people in general using the word then?"
I don't listen but I don't like it. It's not aimed at me. I'm most offended by white males, in their cars, blasting this kind of rap music. Really, really ugly and stupid.
I have not put enough time into listening to rap music to have an opinion about the way the word is used by the stars that have made a lot of money talking that way. From a distance, it seems incredibly debased, sad, and exploitative.
I'm a conservative lawyer and I'm with Ms. Althouse. Do people really needs a course in history to understand why the word sounds and means different things out of black and white mouths? If I hear a woman say "Women can be such bitches!" to other women, who laugh, do I now have licence to say the same in public and dismiss any woman who objects?
This is Hollywood-style special pleading. "I'm a progressive so I can get away with this, as you can't possibly believe it's the real me and I am only trying to teach you how deplorable the other side is." Imagine a male criminal law prof who enacts a brutal rape scene screaming a constant stream of gross misogynist epithets. Cinema verité. Some women students protest. Are we really going to dismiss them as hypocritical delicate flowers?
Just what terrible hardship occurs or baseline constitutional principle is violated if society agrees that blacks can use the word but whites can't? The writings of the Founding Fathers are much more compelling when they are topped up by Miss Manners.
I have no legal background. But I have been around the block enough times to know that these students will hear and see far worse in criminal court as prosecutor or defense attorney. I'm with Professor Hermann, they do not belong in criminal law.
"Sounds like the professor is saying that as prosecutors, the students may encounter the slur from time to time. They need to be able to handle it professionally, even though it upsets them. That's his fucking point! If your instinct is to go cry to mommy that someone said a bad word, find a different line of work."
1. Most law school graduates don't become prosecutors.
2. If you are the prosecutor, you're the one wielding power. It's not like being a student, feeling subordinate to the professor.
3. The students going on the attack are grasping at power and turning the tables and that is not dissimilar from what prosecutors do.
4. The equivalent of going to cry to mommy is filing a lawsuit and seeking intervention from a court, so the instinct isn't far off from what many lawyers do. But, me, I hate having lawsuits filed and prefer other ways to resolve disputes if it's possible.
If the subject of the class in criminal law was the role of provocation as it relates to self defense, the professor certainly seems to have found a way to make the concept of fighting words provocative. And it's helpful to remember that criminals and what they do are a major part of any criminal law class. Criminals say the darnedest things at times, and rarely care whether their words or actions offend anyone. Perhaps a little dose of reality in a law school class is not an unqualifiedly bad thing.
I'm most offended by white males, in their cars, blasting this kind of rap music. Really, really ugly and stupid.
I hear ya. I try & even things up culturally. I roll down the windows of the Lexus, crank up the volume to 11, & blast out the Monteverdi to all the world, like the mean-ass honky muthafucka I am.
Ann Althouse
I recommend spending a few minutes listening to 2Chainz, a very important and hugely successful rapper. Any song from "2 Chainz-Based on a T.R.U. Story" album will do. As will any thirty seconds of any cut,
This is considered high art in the African American "community."
I think you will have a strong opinion, possibly even positive.
If your instinct is to go cry to mommy that someone said a bad word, find a different line of work.
Aside from looking childish, you're likely to damage your client when being emotional.
I've been watching British cop shows on Netflix. So much anguish and instability from the detectives, you wonder how they function, and it's a good thing they don't carry guns. No more "What's all this, then?"
Just what terrible hardship occurs or baseline constitutional principle is violated if society agrees that blacks can use the word but whites can't?
Well we can start with equal protection and the right of free speech.
I thought that we had finally agreed that treating people differently based on the color of their skin was a bad thing. Shit like this is how Trump happens.
YoungHegelian
Indeed. I use Bach and find it effective. I have actually thought of spending the few thousand it would take to upgrade the car speakers to the point where people six blocks away can hear it coming. An ear splitting cantata.
Whatever their ethnic, sexual, gender orientation or other privileged "victim group" status, there are a lot of people--including members of the cisnnormal majority population that don't belong in law school For one reason or another they simply can't cut the mustard.
I enrolled in Boalt Hall at Berkeley in the fall of 1965. There were 300 in the entering 1L class. By Christmas time that year we had 255 people remaining. In May 1966 five students were asked to leave--for poor (one might even say almost non-existent) academic performance. That left 250 law students who would graduate in early June 1968.
Boalt was highly selective in its admissions policy at the time LSAT scores and undergraduate GPA determined who got in, and who did not. Across the Bay another UC law school, Hastings, had a different admissions philosophy. It was much less selective in admitting 1L students. But it was ferocious in winnowing out those who could not compete academically, and by the end of the first year, 50% of the entering class was gone.
That said, fully 15% of my entering Boalt class had self selected out within three and a half months of starting law school. Some simply decided that Mom and Dad might have thought that Junior should go to law school, but it was not for Junior, so they quit. Others could not handle the stress of competition. I sat next to one such student. After two weeks he went up to the student hospital for "stress". The prescription--drop one class. Two weeks later, back up to hospital for "stress". The prescription, drop another class. Rinse and repeat a couple of times, and the fellow was simply gone from law school.
For a lot of us, law school, and the academic competition was a heck of a shock. You were an academic star in high school, you got into a decent university, you did well, and things came easy. You were usually what Obama thought he was--the smartest person in the room. You then get into a good law school--and whoa Mama! At least half, and maybe all, of your class mates are smarter than you ever thought of being. All of a sudden you actually have to study, and it's root hog or die. Another ex President, Richard Nixon went to Duke Law School and was faced with a similar situation He decided that he could not outsmart his competition, but he could outwork them. And he got through law school that way. Don't know where he stood in his class, but he graduated after wearing out the seat of his pants in the law school library.
So yes--I think a law school professor is entitled to tell a student that he doesn't belong in law school. The law student is entitled to prove the professor wrong--or at least try to do that. If the law student is such a delicate flower that he or she is crushed--well them's the breaks.
I don't listen but I don't like it.
It's PC.
Would a law professor get in trouble for saying colored person instead of Person of Color?
I don't listen but I don't like it. It's not aimed at me. I'm most offended by white males, in their cars, blasting this kind of rap music. Really, really ugly and stupid.
But only when White males do this...it's OK for women and people of color, right. There used to be words for this kind of thinking...oh yeah, racism and sexism.
I have not put enough time into listening to rap music to have an opinion about the way the word is used by the stars that have made a lot of money talking that way. From a distance, it seems incredibly debased, sad, and exploitative.
Careful there Althouse...you almost took a stand on the issue.
I feel like I've stumbled into a Kafka novel where young stupid people get to fire you.
If you can't say it, you can't think it, is the PC thought.
But the word has a performance. It's interesting. Like cunt, the equivalent for white women.
I'm a conservative lawyer and I'm with Ms. Althouse. Do people really needs a course in history to understand why the word sounds and means different things out of black and white mouths? If I hear a woman say "Women can be such bitches!" to other women, who laugh, do I now have licence to say the same in public and dismiss any woman who objects?
This is Hollywood-style special pleading. "I'm a progressive so I can get away with this, as you can't possibly believe it's the real me and I am only trying to teach you how deplorable the other side is." Imagine a male criminal law prof who enacts a brutal rape scene screaming a constant stream of gross misogynist epithets. Cinema verité. Some women students protest. Are we really going to dismiss them as hypocritical delicate flowers?
Just what terrible hardship occurs or baseline constitutional principle is violated if society agrees that blacks can use the word but whites can't? The writings of the Founding Fathers are much more compelling when they are topped up by Miss Manners.
Mostly now you can say bad words that are also expletives, but not others.
The first amendment compromise might be to make the other bad words expletives.
Oh nigger it! Cunt it all!
I am not impressed by a lawyer saying the N word. Who are you going to offend? A few defendants? Whoop de damn doo!
Let him say "Kike."
Then I would be impressed.
Details on the crime.
Still lacking specificity but more informative than the Crain's article.
omanche Voter at 11:52 AM
... there are a lot of people--including members of the cisnnormal majority population that don't belong in law school For one reason or another they simply can't cut the mustard.
Excellent comment.
In order to succeed at a university, a person must be able to read with university-level skill.
Furthermore, in order to succeed in law school, a person must be able to read with university-law-school skill.
Nevertheless, universities are enrolling far too many students without such skills. If there were only a few such students, then the university might be able to help them along.
When there are too many such students in a university, however, they eventually spoil the university. In order to justify their own academic inadequacy, they criticize and intimidate their fellow students, their teachers, the staff, the administrators.
The university's dogma will become that the non-readers' failures are to be blamed on the university's own racism.
@Michael,
I'm just messin' with what Prof Althouse wrote. In actuality, I can't stand the idea of being forced to hear someone else's music blaring, & conversely, I consider it terribly rude of me to do it to anyone else.
I have done it as a joke, however, driving down the main drag of my home town in Alabama with Monteverdi's Selve Morale blasting out the window. What's even more fun is tormenting the nieces with classic country. This is one of my favorites, & it drives them around the bend.
There are so much more cheerful slurs for black people. I am partial to “jigaboo” - just say it out loud once or twice and see if you don’t enjoy the sound of it. But the simple fact is this - as long as black people go insane at the sound of “nigger” from a non-black person, they can NEVER be my equal. The best advice (see Dick Gregory’s autobiography) is to get over it.
"... it seems incredibly debased, sad, and exploitative."
I agree, but is that any way for a White person to talk about Black culture?
I mean, we wouldn't want hold all people to the same standards.
I'm thinking Althouse is thinking: "Maybe this post was a mistake."
Some conversations just can't be had.
Why would you be sad about the students only supporting in private when you condone the hypocrisy of it being used in popular culture all over the place. The students know that you do not have their back, why put themselves out there?
This culture war is going to tear us completely apart. And the democrat media party and their supporters know it and just do not care.
A couple of years ago, the NAACP did a mock burial of the N word to discourage African Americans from using it. It didn't work.
"Professor Donald Hermann said he used the word in class last Thursday while discussing this hypothetical situation: a white supremacist attends the funeral of a civil rights leader and hurls the word at funeral attendees. The crowd comes after him. Can he shoot them and claim self defense?
“In this case he can’t, he’d be guilty of murder, he’s the aggressor,” Herman told the Sun-Times during a phone conversation Wednesday afternoon.
“My argument was that almost every other slur would not be enough in a similar context to make the harasser an aggressor,” Hermann said.
Hermann said he used the word with full knowledge of its weight.
“The alternative (to using the word) is there, of course, but it waters down the discussion and the significance of the word. I think their reaction to it is the very justification for the use of it in this context,” he said, adding that he didn’t shout the word or point it at anyone, but said it in a plain voice."
I don't listen but I don't like it. It's not aimed at me. I'm most offended by white males, in their cars, blasting this kind of rap music. Really, really ugly and stupid.
Well what do you expect from splooge stooges?
There’s a magic word in officiating. “You suck”. Gone. That sucks. Ok.
Can White rappers use the word? Can White men listen to White rappers using the word?
Ann, I do not see why you say this:
"But I do strongly agree with you that a professor should not be using the "n-word" — especially in a hypothetical as opposed to an actual case."
To me, this concedes the logic that you also say you reject. Here's a counter example, I assume you think it is okay for literature teachers to use Huckleberry Finn. It is full of the effective and in fact essential use of the term "nigga," "nigger" (or whatever spelling Twain employs). It is impossible to imagine getting the entire and powerful ANTI-racist import and impact of this book without using and bathing in the nuances of this word as it was used by all the characters. So should a teacher using this novel, never use the word itself when discussing its meanings? It is beyond me how any reader could fully evaluate this novel without doing this. It is beyond me how Fahrenheit 451-ish this horror at mere words has become.
The point of doing this in a classroom would be precisely IN ORDER TO get students upset, get them to confront the various emotions that various members of the class experience, black students and white students, and get them then to more cleanly go to the novel itself to see what it has to offer apart from what ANYONE now thinks about its language.
Ann's trolling for racist comments post. I think the some of the fish are learning not to bite as hard. Good Job, professor!
"It was like, damned if I do, damned if I don't. This is a fighting word, and I now have to fight you. I don't have a choice."
Sounds like she isn't even intelligent enough to know what "fighting words" means. Fighting words don't require a fight. They are merely a defense (of sorts) if you choose to fight. Plenty of people every day hear "fighting words" and counter with things such as a verbal counterpoint or, simply, ignoring it.
"You certainly have a choice about how to fight. You don't have to file a complaint against the teacher. You can engage him in debate and try to persuade him to change." You can. But that's beside the point. Claiming you have no choice is the perfect way to claim victimhood. Filing a complaint is the perfect way to gain the upper hand. No need for debate if you can stick it to whitey some other way.
"He's saying he's open to using another approach." So effing what? What do his intentions or desires have to do with anything?
"there is a problem with imposing more of a burden on the students who are in the traditionally burdened group" The "burden" is gladly assumed by its burdened victims: feeling all heads swivel, and more such BS. The traditionally burdened group has been favored in all areas of education for what -- half a century? The eager filing of the complaint only confirms it. At what point does that become a "tradition"?
"And yet by filing a complaint, you give him the (dubious) honor of victimhood. I don't think that's the most effective way to get what you want." Oh, yeah, the "honor" of victimhood of the prog mob. Some kind of white privilege. But who the hell cares about what he feels? Attacking him is a very effective way to get more support and recognition, to strike a blow against "white supremacy," and to claim another scalp in the culture war.
"I have no legal background. But I have been around the block enough times to know that these students will hear and see far worse in criminal court as prosecutor or defense attorney. I'm with Professor Hermann, they do not belong in criminal law."
Maybe some of these students would be well advised, on an individual basis, not to go into the practice of criminal law, but they are first year law students an they are "in criminal law" in the sense of in the required class called criminal law. Most law graduates will not go on to practice criminal law.
In any case, it's not just a matter of hearing the words anywhere. It's a matter of paying and working hard to sit in a classroom led by someone who has power over you. Law students have expectations about professionalism and etiquette which I'll bet the law school used to recruit them. They're being put through an initiation, and they had the power to choose and were lured to this particular place rather than another. I'm virtually positive that black students were assured that the climate for minority students at the school is really great. If they were told: You'll have to take criminal law and the professor will use hypotheticals where he says the n-word in a way that's supposed to make you feel bad so you can understand this or that doctrine, they might have chosen a school that could honestly say we would never do anything racial except in ways that will make you feel supported and respected.
There can be fraud in the speech that is used to recruit students.
This week again I find myself muttering "F You" as I read these stories or hear news reports. Did aliens come and abduct all the adults from the planet? Seriously. Everyone is as fragile as an eggshell.... Grow up!
Next on Althouse: high schools urged to ban Huckleberry Finn as racist screed. Trauma induced by repeatedly reading the "N-Word" greatly outweighs literary content.
All statues of Mark Twain to be torn down, as culturally insensitive triggers to coalitions of aggrieved college students.
"I recommend spending a few minutes listening to 2Chainz, a very important and hugely successful rapper. Any song from "2 Chainz-Based on a T.R.U. Story" album will do. As will any thirty seconds of any cut,"
Well, I'm not going to do that, but I will tell you about the time I felt like suing UW over rap music. I was walking through Library Mall, and there was a loudspeaker playing this:
Move bitch, get out the way
Get out the way bitch, get out the way
Move bitch, get out the way
Get out the way bitch, get out the way
Move bitch, get out the way
Get out the way bitch, get out the way
Move bitch, get out the way
Get out the way bitch, get out the way
Oh no, the fight's out
I'mma 'bout to punch yo lights out
Get the fuck back...
Here I was, walking through my own campus, and some man was yelling "Move bitch, get out the way/Get out the way bitch." That was flat-out sexual harassment, under circumstances where the UW must have authorized it. This happened quite a few years ago, and I still feel angry remembering it.
That's me taking offense and being a member of the targeted group.
Ah..a promise to not be offended?
By the way, she seems to have been moved more by peer pressure than by the actual example.
Posting the Crain article was a bad/misleading choice when another one actually provided more context.
Growing up in Chicago, I am very familiar with DePaul and their graduate programs.
My grad advisor (a liberal socialist back in 1980) was tight with their community psychology folks. I got to know a lot of their grad students - what a bunch of mindless leftwing, politically correct victims. This was 35+ years ago.
I cannot imagine what the place is like now. It was a zoo then.
"Professor Donald Hermann said he used the word in class last Thursday while discussing this hypothetical situation: a white supremacist attends the funeral of a civil rights leader and hurls the word at funeral attendees. The crowd comes after him. Can he shoot them and claim self defense?
“In this case he can’t, he’d be guilty of murder, he’s the aggressor,” Herman told the Sun-Times during a phone conversation Wednesday afternoon.
- I question the Professor's conclusion based on the hypothetical he posed. It might depend on what "comes after him" entailed.
I'm virtually positive that black students were assured that the climate for minority students at the school is really great. If they were told: You'll have to take criminal law and the professor will use hypotheticals where he says the n-word in a way that's supposed to make you feel bad so you can understand this or that doctrine, they might have chosen a school that could honestly say we would never do anything racial except in ways that will make you feel supported and respected.
How about "At this school we will challenge you and treat you like an adult" versus "At this school we will coddle you and treat you like a child"?
I agree, Rabel..
Apparently he's viewing it akin to shouting fire in a crowded theater.
It was interesting reading the history of "fighting words". SCOTUS at one time had what I consider a too broad definition, but has greatly narrowed that over time.
Using the N-word can't be banned, nor can the government criminally penalize such use. I gather from the article that the professor was describing a situation where a provocateur has used the word and incited physical violence that he then repels with physical violence. I am guessing the issue is whether or not the provocateur can then claim self-defense, not whether or not the mob that set upon him can justify their violence.
If you can't handle a hypothetical, then you are not an adult.
He's viewing it as a "fighting words" situation, but his conclusion gives free rein to the target of those words to kill the speaker. This is not reality.
The complainants are making a mockery of themselves in this case, whether they know it or not.
"...teaching law since 1972..."
That would probably put him over age 70. He needs to let the next generation have their chance teaching, and quit man-spreading.
Rabel,
Perhaps, but I didn't see where he claimed the mob wouldn't face consequences for physical violence- if his point is that they wouldn't, then I agree with you.
If you want to see the end game of Democratic Progressive Identity Politics as illustrated by this post.......just examine what is happening right now in South Africa.
First they are coming for your guns.
Then they are coming for everything else.
I'm offended that there is at least one word that I am not allowed to use simply because I am White.
Cheer up, Cracker.
Here I was, walking through my own campus, and some man was yelling "Move bitch, get out the way/Get out the way bitch."
Would it have been OK if the person yelling had been a woman?
I will be teaching a legal ethics class this afternoon in which we will discuss prosecutor misconduct (or not) in the apprehension of a crazed rapist ax-murderer. I hope no one is offended.
I think AA once more is jumping to concussions.
It is not evident that the professor aimed his comment at the only "African-American" student in the class. The article also states that she was only one of the students filing the complaint, and note that when he made the remark, all eyes in the class swiveled to her, challenging her to rise up in righteous wroth or else.
And "African-American" is a term invented by Jesse Jackson and his organization to take charge of the black grievance industry and replace the term "Afro-American," which was the previously accepted term in polite company to replace "Black" which replaced negro, which is the Spanish or Portuguese word for Black.
In anthropology, Negro is a general term for the largely Bantu-speaking natives of Sub-Saharan Africa, keeping in mind that not all Bantu-speakers are Negroes and not all Negro peoples speak Bantu dialects.
"Nigger" is another thing, but it was the term often used with no ill intent by Harry Truman and Lyndon Johnson - the two presidents who did more for the black people of the United States than all the others put together.
For which the Democrats will never forgive them.
Anyway, this is all semantics, prudery, and virtue signalling conjured up by the white college gentry.
I have to say I'm a bit puzzled by this: " I'm most offended by white males, in their cars, blasting this kind of rap music. Really, really ugly and stupid."
The white males in question aren't uttering the forbidden word. Why should it matter who owns the speakers it's coming from, or who is listening to it? If the word is really ugly and stupid when being listened to by a white male, it seems to me that it's equally ugly and stupid when anybody else listens to it; ergo, it's ugly and stupid regardless of who utters it.
The saddest of many sad things about this, is these are Law School students.
If this is how they are being taught to react when someone says something they don't like, well, I cannot imagine hiring a DePaul law grad for anything tougher than a routine closing on a small residence... if that.
I want a smart, tough lawyer who is always alert and focused on protecting my interests, not someone who wilts when someone else looks cross-eyed at them.
What's medieval about the concept that you can't be forgiven having convinced yourself you don't need forgiveness? It seems absolutely logical to me: God will forgive only the repentant, and if you're convinced you don't need forgiveness you can't repent.
rhhardin said...
Nigger is a black activism asset. For some reason people go along with it.
I'm offended by all those words - let's fix them in case some children, especially delicate snowflake college children who don't have what it takes to be a lawyer, happen along.
N-word i-word a-word b-word a-word a-word. F-word s-word r-word p-word g-word a-word w-word i-word.
Remember late 19th century New York high society dressing table legs in pantaloons so that the ladies would not go to thinking about sex?
in an exchange that grew heated
That's what you call a heat exchanger. Coolant needed.
I think a law school professor is entitled to tell a student that he doesn't belong in law school.
Do you still think that standard still applies ?
Especially with black students ?
I don't.
Medical school is more objective I think, but it is not easy. A few years ago, a friend of mine who was chief of surgery decided he had to fire a black female surgery resident for incompetence.
This was a UC medical school program and every other UC surgery chief told him not to do it as it would be impossible to defend the subsequent lawsuit.
He did it and made it stick but got no support from the other department heads.
The black doctor who took Alan Bakke's place at UC Davis in the 80s later had his license revoked for incompetence and ,I believe was prosecuted for second degree murder.
I'm virtually positive that black students were assured that the climate for minority students at the school is really great.
When I was looking at Princeton, the white female student tour guide told the black prospective student and her family the climate was not so good--some people wouldn't accept her prescence. This was 40 years ago, and I don't remember if she said students or the whole community, because my jaw dropped. Now they would expel her.
Is it too late to sue Mel Brooks or has the statute of limitations run out?
"You don't have to file a complaint against the teacher. You can engage him in debate and try to persuade him to change."
no no no no. That's "exhausting" for a POC to have to go into battle for themselves. you have to get authority with power to do it. Because POC have no power.
Ann Althouse said...
That was flat-out sexual harassment, under circumstances where the UW must have authorized it.
I, too, have been sexually harassed by recorded songs whose lyrics I didn't happen to like, but fortunately the songs didn't do it to me in an extremely dangerous and scary place like the UW campus.
Is the B-word still a disruptive issue? You know, "black hole". I wonder if "white hole" carries the same cultural inertia.
How about the C-word: la cabrona? Perhaps it depends on the woman and her diversity class.
Son, there are two words I don't want you to use. One's kinky and the other's raunchy.
OK dad, what are the words?
Wonder if saying or writing "nigger" instead of "N-word" would cause it to lose its impact?
Used to be that "pussy" was offensive. Not so much since it has become common on tv.
His first mistake was to apologize.
The provocation case I studied was British, DPP v Camplin.
I've heard it's since been reduced to a textbook squib, if not totally removed, I suspect for racial reasons.
The defendant at trial, Camplin, was 15 years old at the time of the offence. He killed Mohammed Lal Khan, a Pakistani man, by hitting him on the head with a chapati pan following Khan having sex with him non-consensually (then referred to as buggery) and [Khan] then laughing at him.
The issue at the heart of the Camplin case is whether the "reasonable man" test laid out for the defence of provocation was one which matched the characteristics of the defendant or whether it ought to be confined to the characteristics of the "adult male". Lord Diplock noted that the "reasonable man" was:
"an ordinary person of either sex, not exceptionally excitable or pugnacious, but possessed of such powers of self-control as everyone is entitled to expect that his fellow citizens will exercise in society as it is today."
Lord Diplock noted that in the facts before the court, the age of the defendant was "a characteristic which may have its effects on temperament as well as physique". The House of Lords agreed with a previous Court of Appeal judgement which found that it was wrong for the trial judge to have instructed the jury to not consider the defendant's age (or sex) when deciding whether he had been provoked.
Funny, I thought getting forcibly fucked up the ass and then being laughed at was the relevant characteristic.
Who do you think you are?
I'm the [Law Professor] who don't get wet.
"Here I was, walking through my own campus, and some man was yelling "Move bitch, get out the way/Get out the way bitch.'"
Maybe you were in the way. You gotta see both sides.
Blogger Fernandistein said...
Ann Althouse said...
That was flat-out sexual harassment, under circumstances where the UW must have authorized it.
I, too, have been sexually harassed by recorded songs whose lyrics I didn't happen to like, but fortunately the songs didn't do it to me in an extremely dangerous and scary place like the UW campus.
3/1/18, 1:47 PM
You didn't take Music Appreciation?
And yet, the artist in question has also written an anthem for Meade:
My chick bad
My chick hood
My chick do stuff that ya chick wish she could
My chick bad
My chick hood
My chick do stuff that ya chick wish she could
My chick bad, badder than yours
My my chick bad, badder than yours
My my my chick bad, badder than yours
My my chick bad, badder than yours
Althouse wrote: To my heart, the saddest part of the story is that the students who supported him only offered their support privately.
That's how decent Germans commiserated with Germans Jews after Kristallnacht. Privately.
But..Lord..err Diplock,
Striking with a chapati pan is culturally insensitive.
I roll down the windows of the Lexus, crank up the volume to 11, & blast out the Monteverdi to all the world, like the mean-ass honky muthafucka I am.
I'm with you. Nothing blasts the 'hood like that Prologue toccata from L'Orfeo.
I'm most offended by white males, in their cars, blasting this kind of rap music. Really, really ugly and stupid.
Are we to assume black males, in their cars, blasting that kind of rap music at the same ore high Decibel level offends you less?
How about females?
The L'Orfeo toccata is the only part I skip. Long and uninteresting.
The rest of it I know every note of, having done homework to it every night in high school.
I played all the other instrumental interludes on (classical) guitar.
There's serious doubt whether any of these complaining snowflakes will become a lawyer.
My mother very firmly and successfully discouraged my siblings and I from using the world "nigger." This was in the 1950s and she would literally wash our mouths out with soap if we used this and other bad words (swearing, cursing) on her proscribed list. Yet she would not socialize with blacks. For her racism was bad manners. This is what it means to be lace curtain Irish.
Which ones Ralph?
I see where Huck Finn and To Kill a Mockingbird are being banned because they use the N word.
Lots of bad words out there to call people. Just saying a word is not an attack on someone if is not directed at a person
Some places pork in all its many glorious ways is being banned because just saying pig/pork/bacon/sausage or seeing them in a package offends them. Never a word that Jews have same prohibition about eating pork.
Where is George Carlen when we need him.
So Ann, been called an Old White Woman lately? Or, how about when you go out and the wait(person) calls you and Mead "Hi Guys"?
"Are we to assume black males, in their cars, blasting that kind of rap music at the same ore high Decibel level offends you less?"
We don't know if the lady has had the pleasure.
"Blogger Pinandpuller said...
Who do you think you are?
I'm the [Law Professor] who don't get wet."
I don't think it is very nice to mock our hostesses sexual problems.
Try watching the Swedish cop shows. If they don’t get a good cry in on every case, I think they feel cheated.
At last - a 'zine for QPOCs!
Texas students launch 'No Whites Allowed' magazine
White people are welcome to attend the launch party Thursday night, but while their support is "appreciated," the founders insist that "it's a zine for QPOC and by QPOC [queer persons of color]."
Aww, they're so cute, like miniature humans in so many ways.
"It was like, damned if I do, damned if I don't." Who would have damned her if she didn't?
I had this exact thing happen in an undergraduate class where I was a student back in 1998. And someone was offended. And it didn't matter. I even said that I didn't care they were offended. And nothing happened.
What a difference 20 years makes.
I was raised to never use that word as a derogatory reference to blacks. And I don't.
But Ann you are SO wrong on this one.
But it's your blog, my nigga.
Any first year graduate program should have at least one class that weeds out the people who shouldn't be there. A "Kingsfield" course. It saves people a lot of money and heartache.
"The n-word" is a childish phrase. It degrades and demeans the user.
Would the professor's using any other slur or obscenity in the context in which he said "nigger" be acceptable? If so, then saying "nigger" is acceptable in the same context.
Peter: I'm a conservative lawyer and I'm with Ms. Althouse. Do people really needs a course in history to understand why the word sounds and means different things out of black and white mouths?
Not buying it. "Black people get to control the speech of white people, get to dictate what white people can and cannot say in all circumstances because history" is a bullshit argument. This arrangement infantilizes and degrades both blacks and whites. Grown men and women buying the idea that a derogatory word has the magical power to destroy the lives of people from another race or ethnic group, if used by people of another race or ethnic group, because some member of the former group told them it would and made a big stink out of it, is naïve, patronizing white jackassery at its finest.
Are there contexts where it's stupid and rude (or just stupid and dangerous) to use racial slurs and obscenities? Of course. But the rules of courtesy need to apply to all people everywhere. Bay Area Guy has it exactly right: this is a power game. Stop being so credulous.
Just what terrible hardship occurs or baseline constitutional principle is violated if society agrees that blacks can use the word but whites can't?
Dear Lord, do we have to posit some terrible hardship incurred or constitutional baseline violated to object to having our speech controlled by people who have no qualifications for that function, even if it were a good idea? (It's not, not even from a committee of the wisest and most experienced members of society.)
The writings of the Founding Fathers are much more compelling when they are topped up by Miss Manners
You know what's offensive, Peter? The idea that anyone who objects to CrimeSpeech patrol is an ill-bred boor who needs lessons from the likes of you and CrimeSpeech patrol. Exactly what qualifies you and the cadres to be running this mandatory Charm School? I will grant that you may be a courteous man but I see little evidence of courtesy or charity in the people you're defending. Is demanding that people walk on eggshells around you at all times the mark of a courteous person, Peter? Is assuming that you are always in the right, that your emotional responses must be allowed to dictate everyone's behavior, that you and your feelings are rightly the pre-eminent court of judgment (Because History!), the characteristics of a sane, mature adult, let alone a courteous one?
Hinterland (Wales), Happy Valley (West Yorkshire, good but use subtitles), Marcella (London, annoying detective), Broadchurch (south coast)
Shetland (Shetland) was the exception.
Luther (London) was out of control.
Thorne was OK, but I figured it out halfway.
Point of the word-use was to show that obscenity exists. "Normal" swear words don't matter any more. Fuck shit damn etc. But ethnic slurs are the new no-nos.
The students don't CARE that the Professor - in his own mind - has an official "I'm not a racist" certificate. And they don't CARE about free speech.
To them its not open for discussion. No use of the "N" word.
So, you either give in to them - or you fight. 100-1 they'll just give in.
The Left is ALWAYS Like that. Lesson learned.
The American university campus is just becoming 21st Century Repeat of Czarist Russia.
The Left becomes totalitarian and more extreme. They push and push, and the liberals either give in, join the Left, or engage in meaningless blather.
The Liberals only have the guts to fight the Right, not the Left.
I wrote Czarist Russia - I meant Kerensky Russia.
I'm pretty much of the opinion that if you can't stand someone saying The Dreaded N Word as an example of something so outrageous it rises to justification for retaliatory violence, you're not suited to be out in public.
(What "burden" is placed on "minority" (black, that is; one assumes Asian or Jewish or hispanic or non-racial-minority students are not "burdened" by this especially?) students by this, exactly?
I assure you, that if my local experience of hearing black high school students speak to each other [and these are Catholic school students, mind you, parentally-and-self-selected to be above-mainstream in either aptitude or dedication to scholarship] is remotely representative, that the mere word itself is not burdensome - because the students use it themselves with some frequency, without apparent upset.
The thesis then must be that it's burdensome only when used by The Racial Other; this would be fine if limited to uses of ignorance or bigotry, but ... the given example is almost the opposite of that.
Any student incapable of coping with it in this specific context should find a nice secluded liberal-arts school where nothing will ever question a single one of their extant assumptions about the world, because they are far too delicate for actual education.)
Shouldn't lawyers be taught that they really are awful people, and that they should glory in their toughness and ability to achieve victory?
The law is, after all, a "civilized" venue for gladiatorial combat, of hired warriors, goons, and enforcers.
Toughness of mind should be a requirement, no?
John Lynch said...
Fuck shit damn e-word.
On the other hand, a proper school for gladiators, goons, and enforcers should value the ability to defeat and remove a professor!
It is like a trainee gladiator defeating his trainer.
He is obviously ready for the Colosseum.
Just what terrible hardship occurs or baseline constitutional principle is violated if society agrees that blacks can use the word but whites can't?
Society agrees? Says who? You? Society?
I should be able to use whatever fucking word(s) I want. If someone doesn't like those words? They are more than welcome to shut me up.
Usage of words should not be based upon the speaker's skin color or sex. That's not 'society.' That's bullshit.
Hermann is Columbia Law School class of '68. That means he's got to be in his mid-seventies. What the hell is he still doing teaching first year law students? Maybe some upper class seminars if he can't stand retirement, but a mandatory first year course? Admittedly, John Houseman was in his eighties when he was still playing HLS Contracts Professor Kingsfield on television, but that was television.
One must take offense to be offended. Sure, the word may be (and I'll even give you the fact that it is) disrespectful. But we have to stop letting ourselves take the offense. It gives power to the one offending. Deny them the power by not being offended. Debate with them the value of using the words they use and they're conveying the meaning they intended to convey.
If you allow yourself to have hurt feelings you really shouldn't be in law school. Or medical school. Or architecture school. Or business school. You should stay in your house and not go out. You do not have a right to not have words uttered at you that you might hurt your feelings and offend you. Such a right does not exist, but the Canadians are trying it, as are the Brits and Germans and Poles and it's not going to end well.
I've been referred to as "white bitch" by young black teens while merely walking down my own street. I got over it.
rhhardin wrote: The L'Orfeo toccata is the only part I skip. Long and uninteresting.
You get bored after one minute and forty seconds?
WTF does his age have to do with it?
Ok..well..maybe he has accumulated FU $$ that allows him to run the class without worrying about upsetting the nanny powers.
As was someone else upthread, I am astounded that you seem to take the student's side on this. Of course, I am not a lawyer and have never been to law school so perhaps this kind of opprobrium is normal to heap on another law professor.
From what you posted, I would fully support the professor. But of course I am a racist fascist yadda yadda yadda. Just ask some of the commenters here.
It got me to thinking about Dick Gregory's wonderful autobiography "Nigger". I read it back in the 60's, perhaps I need to read it again. I'd buy it through the portal but am afraid that Ann might get the vapors.
https://www.amazon.com/Nigger-Autobiography-Gregory-Robert-Lipsyte-ebook/dp/B004KZQMSK/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1519945503&sr=8-1&keywords=nigger
Perhaps, just for some light background music for my reading, I'll also download https://www.amazon.com/Nigger-Attitude-Explicit/dp/B00419AHOU/ref=sr_1_1?s=digital-text&ie=UTF8&qid=1519945849&sr=8-1&keywords=nigger+with+attitude
Searching for "Nigger" (Gregory's book) turns up a bunch of interesting results. I'm surprised that the ProgFas aren't picketing Amazon to take them all down.
John Henry
Blogger Quaestor said...
I'm most offended by white males, in their cars, blasting this kind of rap music. Really, really ugly and stupid.
Are we to assume black males, in their cars, blasting that kind of rap music at the same ore high Decibel level offends you less?
How about females?
Of course. Democrat progfas assume that blacks just don't know any better and are incapable of learning. So, they just accept it. But a white guy should know better.
/sarc
John Henry
I think he could have said "used a racial slur", it isn't necessary to evoke emotion in a classroom, in fact it is probably best to view cases as dispassionately as possible as training. I can't imagine a surgical instructor trying to get surgical interns to feel emotional about their cases, so why would a law professor.
That said this business of getting people fired because someone is offended is obnoxious. Talk to him about it, protest but we don't need to eliminate people for offenses. Get over yourselves.
Three Billboards outside Ebbing Missouri (2017) is great, character-funny so far. I paused it to copy here a bit of dialogue. M is the heroine (great role model, strong woman agency), D the antagonistic deputy, W the chief. D is guarding M who has been brought in for drilling a hole in the dentist's thumbnail.
M: So how's it all going in the nigger-tortruing business, Dixon?
D: It's persons of color torturing business these days, if you want to know. And I didn't torture nobody. Goddam saying that goddam stuff on TV. My momma watches that station.
M: And she didn't know nothig about the torturing?
D: No she didn't know anything about it. She's against that kind of thing.
W (walks in): Who's against that kinda thing?
D: My momma. Is against persons of color torturing. She said nigger-torturing. I said you can't say nigger-torturing no more. You gotta say persons of color torturing. Right?
We have security theater, integrity theater, woke theater, compassion theater, diversity theater, and tons of offense theater. We are so theatrical. Lots of over-acting, and the actors are all like Christian Bale - they would rather stay in character than treat people like equals.
I think the students who sue should fail the class or at least the assignment.
We got rid of "negro" and "white" drinking fountains, but replaced them with black and white dictionaries. Progress!
The thing is, that white kids today don't even understand what a n-word is. We've had desegregation longer than they've been alive.
So when a professor uses the word, it's like forcing them to listen to an old white guy from when dinosaurs roamed the Earth.
The black kids who use the n-word think its cool, and works well with their pants on the ground.
Call yourself a cool cat, lookin like a fool
Walkin’ downtown with your pants on the ground
Get it up, hey, get your pants off the ground
Walkin’, talkin’ with your pants on the ground
Get it up, hey, get your pants on the ground
Lookin’ like a fool with your pants on the ground
Gold in your mouth
Hat turned sideways
I thought Black Histrionics Month was over.
"You are a God-damned racketeer" and "a damned Fascist."
You want to use such speech as evidence of provoking a fight, that is one thing. But to criminalize the speech itself, regardless of what those racketeers on the Court say, is abhorrent to a free society.
As for these nine cry-babies, they should NEVER be allowed to practice law anywhere.
It's a matter of paying and working hard to sit in a classroom led by someone who has power over you.
The entire legal profession is all about being before someone (a judge) who has power over you. Get used to it. Half of litigation involves eating @#$% from a judge and then saying afterward, "thank you, your Honor."
Meanwhile, there is a certain law professor -- now retired -- who in the past said all sorts of incredibly offensive things. And I would not have liked to be in her class since she had expressed a certain bias if not animus against certain things and groups. But putting a muzzle on her would not have been the answer.
Liawatha?
Now we all have been making strident remarks about these students but what bothers me is the statement made by Ann in the context of her being part of our justice system. She essentially wants to give the DePaul black students a pass because of their past. But in our system of justice you are judged on your present actions and not whether your great grandfather was a slave. That is not justice but mercy.
Now Ann is not a hard leftist as we know many in the judicial system whether in academia or in our courts are . If she is willing to forgo justice for mercy just think what goes on in our countries judicial system. Very disturbing.
If you’re going to discipline the professor then you need to discipline the students, too. They need to have skin in the game as well.
I personally have used bagpipe music to counter loud rap from neighboring vehicles with some startling results. The higher grace notes cut right through the repetitive bass from rap. My success rate is roughly 30%, by which I mean they roll up their windows. Plus it's not cultural appropriation, as my father was a piper and my relations are from Ayreshire. I do have one Irish born ancestor, named Helen Brown. You should be able to guess what part of Ireland she was from.
Ulcer?
The suburb, Ulceritis, but not so far out as Liverous.
Bagpipe music might work to break down perps in hostage situations.
Getting in om the thread late as usual but - Re Gretchen at 5:34 -- "I think he could have said "used a racial slur", it isn't necessary to evoke emotion in a classroom, in fact it is probably best to view cases as dispassionately as possible as training. I can't imagine a surgical instructor trying to get surgical interns to feel emotional about their cases, so why would a law professor."
Law school is not a safe place - it is "unsafe" on purpose. Law students are subjected to all sorts of stress. Challenging their ability to be, and remain, objective is one example. In torts classes the professor is sure to craft a hypo with heart rending details of small children crushed in some gruesome fashion, all in an effort to cloud judgment with emotion. That's what the criminal law professor was doing here. The complaints should be dismissed, and the complainants should be counseled that their reaction was inconsistent with the dispassionate demeanor expected of competent counsel. If the use of a single word, in a clinical setting, is more than their tender psychs can handle, they should transfer to another field of endeavor.
These students have bigger problems than some slur
DePaul
#120 in US News Rankings
$46,300/yr
Imagine paying such $$ to go to a bottom rung outfit like that.
You certainly have a choice about how to fight.
Or, you know, you could grow up, and not fight about it
You don't have to file a complaint against the teacher. You can engage him in debate and try to persuade him to change.
Or, you could be an adult human, and get over it.
But I do strongly agree with you that a professor should not be using the "n-word" — especially in a hypothetical as opposed to an actual case. And I really don't like hearing a law professor tell first-year students that if they don't like it they might not have what it takes to be a lawyer.
You're wrong. If you're ruled by your emotions, not your brain, you're going to be a bad lawyer
The whole concept of targeted group in incomparable with the Rule of Law.
It's a leftist socialist fiction to justify the seizure of power.
See, Zimbabwe and, coming soon, the death of Nelson Mandela's dream in South Africa.
Obama's dream for us.
What Negroes want is to be able to be able to provoke whites into saying "nigger" so they can claim to be provoked to violence, as justification for getting their murder on.
They should never have been made citizens. They shouldn't even be considered human.
Well technically it's only three fifths.
Althouse wrote: And I really don't like hearing a law professor tell first-year students that if they don't like it they might not have what it takes to be a lawyer.
You really must not have liked when Prof. Kingsfield did exactly that to Mr. Hart in "Paper Chase": link
@ Angle-Dyne
That almost reads like a legal brief in defense of the right of white people to use the n-word. If you go back and read what Ms. Althouse said, you will see that she did not say that blacks should decide what white people can say. Nor did she say what she thinks should happen to professors who do. She said that a professor in a mixed semi-public setting shouldn't use the word in some hypothetical scenario, and I agree. I also believe men shouldn't drop the f-bomb loudly in public parks in the earshot of children and the elderly. I have held such a belief for many years without ever feeling resentful because the kids and old wrinklies were imposing restrictions on my right to free speech. Nor have I ever felt an impulse to drop f-bombs I might not otherwise drop in order to show them it's a free country. Nor have I ever thought that hearing kids use the word somehow gave me a justification to use it too.
I hereby award you this year's Larry Flynt Award for asserting the right to offend, disgust and embarrass in the name of free speech. Let freedom ring!
BTW, the idea expressed a few times in this thread that the professor had an educational justification that law students with the right stuff would benefit by is ridiculous.
rhhardin wrote: "The L'Orfeo toccata is the only part I skip. Long and uninteresting."
You get bored after one minute and forty seconds?
It's aggressively bad music. One chord for ten minutes.
The other later instrumental interludes are top-notch.
I hereby award you this year's Larry Flynt Award for asserting the right to offend, disgust and embarrass in the name of free speech. Let freedom ring!
How close was I in the voting? It was the swimsuit competition that did me in right?
"Here I was, walking through my own campus, and some man was yelling "Move bitch, get out the way/Get out the way bitch." That was flat-out sexual harassment, under circumstances where the UW must have authorized it. This happened quite a few years ago, and I still feel angry remembering it."
Almost as bad as the time those mean libertarians made you cry.
You are an embarrassment to your profession and your gender. Get out the way, bitch.
It's aggressively bad music. One chord for ten minutes.
We are obviously not talking about the same L'Orfeo, because Monteverdi's prelude tocatta could last ten minutes only if it were played over and over 5.998 times.
Did someone replace AA with an imposter? What is this nonsense: And I really don't like hearing a law professor tell first-year students that if they don't like it they might not have what it takes to be a lawyer.
Bullshit. If you can’t handle the use of a word, not as an epithet, but in a fucking classroom hypothetical, you’re not cut out for much of anything serious. These students know the word is not being used against them as an epithet, so what’s their fucking excuse? Do they think the Prof is subliminally expressing his racist views. He’s talking about First Amendment jurisprudence. Seeing that the N-word is pretty much the most provocative insult in the English language, why wouldn’t you use it. I’m of Asian descent and would have no problem with hypos using “chink” or “gook.” This language exists in the real world, so why wouldn’t you use it in classroom examples?
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