From "Why We Applaud Woody Allen’s Misogyny" by Mimi Kramer (in New York Magazine).
Here's the video. It's very funny, done in the "roast" comic style, and you can see Keaton laughing throughout:
You can hear that everyone in the audience misses the "fellatrix" joke — the highlight of the speech — because Woody Allen pronounces it with a short "a," making it more remininscent of philately than fellatio.
More from Kramer:
Just recently, I learned a new word and had another idea about Woody Allen at the AFI tribute to Diane Keaton. I decided that he was “negging” her — like guys in bars who try to discombobulate women they regard as out of their league by walking up to them and insulting them with statements that sound superficially like compliments.That does make Kramer sound dangerously out of the loop. "Negging" has been a general-interest topic for at least 10 years. Look, the NYT had a letter in 2004 that assumes the word is pretty well known:
As a happily married old codger not looking to pick up women, I read your article ''He Aims! He Shoots! Yes!!'' with interest. Great pickup strategies are probably timeless. An earlier treatise from the late 1940's is in Richard P. Feynman's ''Surely You're Joking, Mr. Feynman'' in the chapter ''You Just Ask Them?'' Mr. Feynman is taught how to pick up women at bars, including use of the the strategic slight known as the ''neg,'' Per his report, it worked on bar girls, as well as the sister of one of his graduate students. But alas, he didn't enjoy this pickup strategy and ''never really used it after that.''Kramer's indictment of Allen resists the idea that the comedy was — as I thought — in the "roast" mode:
Fellatrix was no roast. In a roast you pause for the laugh, and he hadn’t paused for the laugh.So it can't be classified as a roast unless the comic sticks to what this writer — no expert at comedy, I'm guessing — considers to be the properly conventional timing?
It would make more sense to say that roasting wasn't appropriate in this situation. Or even that only men can be roasted or men cannot roast women (cf. men can't punch women, discussed in the first post of the day). Here's where I'm reminded to use my Era of That's Not Funny tag. Don't neg women, don't tease women, don't roast women, don't even compliment women for the wrong things (even if you love those things). Enjoy the future!
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100 comments:
I doubt Diane Keaton needs Mimi protecting her.
Mimi is not Diane's friend.
I watched that and turned to my husband afterward to say, "I'd want Woody Allen to introduce me everywhere!"
Yeah, like .00001% of the population gives a shit about what "stealth misogyny" Woody Allen slipped into some jerkoff speech about Diane Keaton. I find it comforting to remember that the rest of the world has shit to do and doesn't have time to pick apart this silliness.
Also, re 'negging,' I'm sorry ladies but if you're dumb enough to meet men in bars and dumb enough to feel hurt by their dumb strategeries to get into your pants, you deserve what you get. If you're a fully functional adult, either a random woman in a bar or Diane Keaton, there should be no way that the words of some dipshit can affect your self-regard or emotional stability.
He called her a cock sucker. With a true friend like that, Diane doesn't need enemies.
He was a great, great standup comic. I wish he had stuck to that form, which, I thought, brought out his talents far more than his movies (and I generally enjoy his movies).
This is a hilarious roast with everyone laughing. He gives a slight pause at "fellatrix". No one laughs. It's not funny. It doesn't have to be sexist to be a dud joke.
But Diane. Look at her. Holy moly, she is a goddess.
@trad
You have it backwards, your friend is exactly the person who can call you a cocksucker. Then you insult them back. Then you laugh.
Genuinely affectionate tribute by Woody to lifelong friend of his. The author has no such experience with this sort of intimacy. The author is to be pitied.
Confusing times! Until the day before yesterday, progs were proud of their cutting-edge sexuality, their libertine hedonism, their contempt for bourgeois norms. JFK had a young woman give a friend a BJ in the WH pool. Bill happily flew on the Lolita Express. MSM women cheerfully and publicly recounted Matt Lauer's exploits. Woody put the moves on his young sorta stepdaughter and humorously celebrated geezer leering. But now Diane Keaton is being degraded by a mere roast?
"Fellatrix."
Sounds like it could be the title held by a transexual administrator of a decedent's will.
Good Lord. Do these people ever stop congratulating each other with awards and golden statues??
What a pack of assholes.
Where is the slight? Fellatio is an important skill which every woman should cultivate.
I bet "fellatrix" was an in-joke between the 2 of them.
It's a very funny word. "Fellatio" is already a funny word, and "-trix" is a funny ending... unless you think "Trix are for kids"... then the whole pedophilia topic intrudes itself.
Jinx
Hey, you unjinxed.
"[Woody] Allen’s speech at the AFI tribute to Diane Keaton was an example of stealth misogyny."
Why the qualifiers? It's either racist or not. Misogyny or not. Clear speech to white nationalists or not.
I suppose there are two things going on here. One is the need to promote things as new to attract an audience. I know you think you know all about misogyny, but have you heard about stealth misogyny? Well, don't go around uninformed!
The other is that these things don't clearly meet the current definition. If the author simply said "misogyny" people would look for themselves and find they disagree with her premise. Thus, by classifying it as some new form of something, all the old definitions can be carefully molded to fit the situation under examination.
So we get microaggressions, dog whistles, stealth misogyny.
The point here is not to attract an audience but to broaden a definition without directly appearing to do so.
There are more things in heaven and earth, fellatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.
"oh So rightwing... If you helped a blind person across the street - they accused you of socialism."
And the crowd of clowns busts out laughing.
Geez - how fucking lame. Leftwing hypocrites. I'll bet that entire leftwing audience does jack shit for charity - vets, the blind, the homeless. You name it. Jack.
Happy memories of Jinx Falkenburg.
Dickin'Bimbos@Home said...
Good Lord. Do these people ever stop congratulating each other with awards and golden statues??"
And didn't Allen make fun of Hollywood and its' endless self-congratulation ceremonies in "Annie Hall?" I can't look up the scene now, but I remember it very well.
Afterwards, they all sped off in their Maseratis, back to their walled and gated mansions to polish their shelves of golden calf statues.
Dickin'Bimbos@Home said...
Do these people ever stop congratulating each other with awards and golden statues??
Ha! A few times I watched those "DVD extras" ("audio commentaries, behind-the-scenes featurettes, documentaries, production stills, cast and crew bios, alternate endings, animatics, interactive games") thinking (ha ha) that it might be about the photography or digital effects but it was always* a bunch of actors telling each other how wonderful they are.
*Except one for "Cloverfield" which showed how they digitized New York to blend it with the effects.
The sight of Meryl Streep makes me physically ill.
Stealth ethnic hatred:
"Please note that my Twitter account remains suspended because I supposedly incited ethnic hatred by questioning the truth of story told by actor Mark Ruffalo." (The DiploMad)
"Fellatio" is already a funny word...."
Not as funny as "cocksucker."
Proof? Here:
On his wedding night a man asks his new wife to felate him, and she says "No, you wouldn't respect afterward!"
He says of course I will respect you. You're my wife and I love you. But she still says no.
Every year on their anniversary the man asks his wife to perform oral sex on him...and every year she declines saying he wouldn't respect her.
Finally on their 70th anniversary he says this is silly! I have been married to you for 70 years. I have always loved and respected you. So she finally relents and starts to felate him.
While she's at it the phone rings, and the man answers. "Hello? Sure just a minute"
"Hey it's for you cocksucker"
Fernandistein -
That's all it is... over and over... A pack of people who play dress-up for a living and cry on Q - back-slapping each other and slobbering over each other in their wealthy golden leftwing cocoon.
The American people should shut it off and reject these a-holes.
Inside joke? That's my take on it. I enjoyed the "socialism" joke as well. Classic Woody delivery, wasn't meant to kill. The democrat spleen is poisoning so much in life. We must take our spirit back from the likes of Barack, the disapproving parent in chief, and company.
He said that death is peaceful, like passing into the sedation for a colonoscopy. Life, however, is like the prep. That's a fairly memorable line, and way above the sort of thing you find in stand-up comedy.......Allen has got some significant bends and ruptures in his libido, but he is undeniably talented. He has produced any number of great lines of Bartlett level currency about the absurdity of life. He himself is one of life's great absurdities......How do you separate the dancer from the dancer or the broken hip from the pratfall?
I thought he treated her with total respect : as though she were a well-adjusted guy. This went over the head of Mimi who sounds like someone who got over-marinated in Woman Literature at school.
After the roast at the altar, as they departed the Velvet Church of the Holy Actor, the congregation dutifully dropped large checks payable to The Clinton Foundation into the tithing plate.
He said it in a way that sounded like “fil-actress”. That’s probably their inside joke. Actress or fil-actress?
That’s not funny anymore because they are all actors.
Like two over 70 ex-lovers in show business can't openly joke about fellatio (which he is more or less telling her, "you were the best i ever had")? Jesus, this #meToo really is the death of Hollywood, like when the Puritans shut down the London theaters.
In an ideal world, we would enjoy actors and actresses on the screen and never, ever have to hear from them outside their milieu.
So the movie producer tells his one time new actress that she was the best cocksucker of them all, and everyone applauds her. Be the best at what you do, and get movie roles. The acting skills can come later.
Now, what did Harvey Weinstein do wrong again??
Just recently, I learned a new word and had another idea about Woody Allen at the AFI tribute to Diane Keaton.
I wonder what word that was? Negging? Discombobulate? (What a ridiculous word. Only someone willing to use "combobulate" in a non-joking context should entertain its use more than three seconds.) Or was it fellatrix? I'll wager it was the latter — after all, we're talking about New York magazine here, not My Weekly Reader. The feminine ending threw her, not the tricky "ah". But why did Allen bother? Everybody who's The Godfather knows Daine Keaton sucks. And fellatrices abound, especially in that room. Martin Short got to sit next to one all night.
"Also, re 'negging,' I'm sorry ladies but if you're dumb enough to meet men in bars and dumb enough to feel hurt by their dumb strategeries to get into your pants, you deserve what you get."
Common misconception, and understandable.
But the purpose of this strategy is not to hurt feelings - not really, anyway. It's something that should only be done to really pretty girls who would otherwise be super-aloof, and isn't always needed in any case if you've got some social proof of your own. Back in the day, if I was with a group of friends (especially one that included our own pretty lady friends), hot girls would be happy to talk with me because they can see I've got a social circle and I've been "preselected" as a good and interesting chap.
But if I went out alone, and spied a hot girl I wanted to hit on, I've got to stand out. Lifting weights helps, as does dressing well and good grooming, but those only get a guy so far. Fact is, a hot girl usually knows she's hot, and will use that to her advantage in the mating sense. Approaching her with a backhanded compliment ("I like your hairstyle . . . you must go to the same shop as my mother."), is a way to stand out. Hot girls are used to random guys hitting on them and used to receiving compliments from them. Getting a sideways compliment that sounds like it might be a tease is somewhat novel, and whatever hit her self-esteem takes is minor and very, very temporary.
It's basically as if you're saying "Hey, you're hot, but that doesn't impress me very much because I've got attractive qualities too, they're just less immediately visible" and also saying "By the way, I won't take shit from you just because you're pretty" all wrapped in one line. You're just saying it in a more creative way.
However, "negging" should never be used on a girl that isn't super hot, and shouldn't be at all if you have something truly interesting to say or show. It's basically for those times when you're caught off guard by a really hot girl and nothing else comes to mind. Find something about her that you like, then quickly think of a way to tease her about it. Girls that are pretty, but not super hot, don't take that as well, and girls that are super hot will likely respond anyway if you can be interesting in other ways. Think of it like carrying a flashlight in your car.
Curious George,
That was a terrible joke.
I almost spit up coffee on my keyboard.
I used to love the afi lifetime achievement awards because, unlike Oscar and golden, this was about the Oeuvre of the Artiste. And as that fit my snooty artiste pretensions at the time, I never missed it for years.
Used to be, the afi lifetime achievement award went to someone you would have studied at film school, the patron saints of film, if you will. Charlie Chaplin, Alfred Hitchcock, Francois truffaut, Steven Spielberg...diane Keaton — I like her ok, but she is considerably more lightweight than the apostles of film history.
Like everything else, the afi lifetime achievement has been defined down.
Althouse wrote: That does make Kramer sound dangerously out of the loop. "Negging" has been a general-interest topic for at least 10 years.
Make that 200 years if not 300. Neg is short for "negative" and refers to the rhetorical use of compound negation to obscure meaning, a very popular practice in fashionable circles in 18th-century London. Negging reached its zenith (or nadir) when the practice filtered down to the lower orders in Victorian times, a famous example being the Goulston Street graffito, the chalked message connected to the "Jack the Ripper" murders:
The Juwes [sic] are not the men that will be blamed for nothing.
The writer could not spell, but he used the "negging" style comfortably if not deftly.
(Speaking of the deft use of the neg, it is not descriptive of me. I negged myself, hence the deletion and re-post.)
A Lifetime Achievement Award without mention of the key skill that got her all those leading roles would be misleading the public as to the true insider value of her talent. A great blow job ("no hands, deep throbs") is nothing to sneeze at.
Don't neg women, don't tease women, don't roast women, don't even compliment women for the wrong things (even if you love those things). Enjoy the future!
I’m in my seventies so I take even less shit than someone in her sixties. I’m going to compliment Althouse when she’s right, tease her when she’s wrong, and ignore the consequences. (Unless Meade and I meet and — thinking of yet another post — he goes to fist city. It’s those wiry guys who are dangerous in a bar fight.)
The “charge” of misogyny morphed into lèse-majesté so quickly I hardly noticed.
Note: that Cocksucker Walker is on C-Span2 right now. Great Governor that I like so much that I call him cocksucker, and some more colorful Italian words of affection.r
In an ideal world, we would enjoy actors and actresses on the screen and never, ever have to hear from them outside their milieu.
We're getting there. It won't be long before voice actors will command the big bucks, and the Ben Afflecks ( not Ben Affleck, per se, he's already a has-been) will have to get jobs more suited to their actual talents.
Yes, with that joke he was trying to demean his close friend and ex lover. Jesus Christ. America is in the grip of a new puritanism. Who could have predicted that it would be feminism, not conservatism, that would push our culture toward moral preening and censoriousness?
Woody used the term with Mira Sorvino in the Mighty Aphrodite as well.
Negging always made me classify the man as a weirdo to be avoided. Aside from its being rude, it seemed like a tell that he was reaching.
It won't be long before voice actors will command the big bucks
I've been claiming this for years. CGI is going to to drastically change Hollywood. As the cost-curve continues to be bent down and the product quality goes up, expensive and troublesome actors will be replaced by cheap and supremely-compliant simulacra.
The Hollywood we know today will look vastly different in 10 or so years.
Faster, please.
Fellatrix to rhyme with Bellatrix?
"I can paint a house in one day," says Pierre. "But do they call me Pierre the housepainter? Non. I can swim a mile, but do they call me Pierre the swimmer? Non. But suck one cock . . . ."
It is not always about women. Woody Allen is an asshole. He has to raise kids to be his partner. Diane Keaton could have anyone she wanted...because she is beautiful and he is Woody Allen.
Just call assholes assholes. No need to gender it.
#SheLaughed #HerAgency #NoJudgment
Is negging congruent to nagging? Who is the negger?
That sounds awfully diversitist. #BlackHole
It is amazing how blue stocking the Left has become.
They don't seem to realize that their major selling point was their hedonistic young wimmins, their substance abuse and their 'Devil May Care' attitude.
Now, they were as bad as Puritans and a lot more hypocritical than they ever were.
No matter how you look at it, what Allen did was a dick move.
“Negging always made me classify the man as a weirdo to be avoided. Aside from its being rude, it seemed like a tell that he was reaching.”
Oh sister, ain’t that the truth?! Lots and lots of those kinds of weirdos here, there and everywhere.
Ann, you fell for this author’s compleaty illogical interpretation of what Allen said. In the article’s comments...
“the word was PHILANTRIX, Woody Allen's typically creative word-smithing of the Greek word "philanthropos" with the feminine suffix "trix" which nicely describes her philanthropic work.”
No comments on the latest Drudgestoposition? Michelle O at the top looking very concerned, Janet Jackson huddling up to protect herself from Justin Timberlake, while Maxine Waters is open mouthed as she's about to get slapped by Mark Zuckerberg, and Newsom looks on like a skeezy douche?
So, now seems an opportune time to get off the progressive slope.
I say he's subtly calling out Democrat politicians, Hollywood, and Silicon Valley. There's a lot of liberal slam in those pic arrangements.
Ann, you fell for this author’s compleaty illogical interpretation of what Allen said. In the article’s comments...
“the word was PHILANTRIX, Woody Allen's typically creative word-smithing of the Greek word "philanthropos" with the feminine suffix "trix" which nicely describes her philanthropic work.”
Oh, so that means Allen is guilty of stealth praise, the bastard.
Diane Keaton is the embodiment of a one-note actor. Some kind of earnest ditz. In comedy, a straight woman can serve a meaningful role, for a Woody Allen or Jack Nicholson. In drama (as has been observed here) like The Godfather, not so much. But there's lots of room in Hollywood casting for one-note actors, even in leading roles like Kevin Costner, Harrison Ford, John Wayne. They're not shooting Shakespeare every time out there.
“the word was PHILANTRIX, Woody Allen's typically creative word-smithing of the Greek word "philanthropos" with the feminine suffix "trix" which nicely describes her philanthropic work.”
Clever. This reminds me of the "black hole" incident, which was not a Greek, but English misconception.
@Kyzernick
So how does it work if the 'super hot' girl responds, 'I'm impressed at the amount of thought you've put into mind-gaming women into touching your penis?'
“Stealth Misogyny” ? F. You.
Besides, is it misogyny if Diane Keaton is a man?
She’s a man, baby!
Now I Know! calls it. He definitely said "philantrix".
As we used to say in junior high, "Get your mind out of the gutter!"
Fellatrix is kinda, sorta, funny, I guess. It would be a bit coarse for Woody to say that Keaton used to regularly gobble his logster, but so what, we get the point.
Woody is a product of the 60s, but unlike the hippies, he had actually did have some talent. Of course, at his core, he was a horny little nebbish, traumatized by high school, where he likely got zero girls. But if you write scripts and make movies and make 'em laugh, well, you will inevitably get the girls. But that doesn't explain Woody's weirdness. You get a lotta girls, so you wanna try your common's law wife's adopted Asian, teenage daughter? You're so weird, you make people cringe when you interact with your own adopted daughter?
The humor and talent of Woody is fully recognized and appreciate. But his weirdness is not accepted.
Oops, misspelled completely.
But once you listen again to the end of Allen’s speech it is clear that this article’s author completely misrepresented what he said.
Ann, you should amend this post and not allow yourself to be a part of her big misrepresentation.
When I think of Woody Allen's sex life, Portnoy comes to mind.
Maybe Woody's latin was in error. He meant 'felix' not 'fellatrix'.
"So it can't be classified as a roast unless the comic sticks to what this writer — no expert at comedy, I'm guessing — considers to be the properly conventional timing?"
Lol at the droll.
How do we know Allen wasn't telling the truth about Keaton?
Above the linked NYT artricle, current one that employs Stormy to get to:
"This may be way more than you wanted to know. But the point is that Trump seems to have had either terrible luck or stupendous ineptitude when it comes to birth control. Do you think that’s why he’s intent on wrecking things for the rest of the nation?"
Philanthrix makes WAY more sense, indeed. And what a great word, to boot.
It still seems that getting offended about sexual references must include the underlying assumption that sex is bad. Apparently sex positivity is tightly compartmentalized just like all left principles.
He could have said Cocksuckeuse.
So Woody past the age where Oprah would say he takes no shit and he tells his audience life is an enema. Ready for his colonoscopy/
He's saying he's had sex with Keaton. Everyone knows he's had sex with Keaton. In what world is this controversial?
Had I been Keaton I would have countered with a cutting remark about his feeble member. Being fellated is OK. Telling about it in public is not.
““the word was PHILANTRIX, Woody Allen's typically creative word-smithing of the Greek word "philanthropos" with the feminine suffix "trix" which nicely describes her philanthropic work.”
I relistened, and there is no n. He says “lat” very clearly.
And if you were going to coin a word out of “philanthropy,” you’d need more of the “throp.”
But the lack of the n is fatal to this effort to absolve Woody.
It's a stealth absolution.
Of course, that was last June, which in the #MeToo era might as well have been medieval times. Woody almost certainly won't be giving any more awards any time soon.
"In a roast you pause for the laugh, and he hadn’t paused for the laugh."
That's right, always pause for the laugh, and say "Get it?" .
I'm glad we have Mimi to bitchsplain comedy, or I wouldn't get it.
"He's saying he's had sex with Keaton. Everyone knows he's had sex with Keaton. In what world is this controversial?"
If you were Diane Keaton, would you want the world to know that you gave that perverted Little Woody a blowjob?
It sounded suspiciously like "white hole"... I mean, "white whore".
Typical deadpan Woody Allen delivery, and pretty funny at that.
I'm not seeing this "journalist" lady's cause for rending of garments here; where's the fire?
I listened four times. The first time I heard no "n". The second and third times I heard an "n". The fourth time, I didn't hear an "n". I don't know what he said, but if he meant philanthropist who identifies as female, he probably should have said it.
This is missing context. Steve Martin in his remarks told a story about he and Martin Short acting up in her trailer and she said " if you guys don't settle down I'll come back there and blow you" to which Martin Short responded "Diane, you're going to have to work on your threats." I think Allen was responding to that.
Sorry, I conflated events. Steve Martin said this when receiving HIS afi award-- but the story still may have influenced Allen's remark.
I'm surprised by these comments so far since normally enough Althouse readers I can usually either relate to or understand. But no-one else has mooted my view of Allen's speech that it was a monotonous insight into a embittered, once-gifted small-hearted man. It was also a dismal snippet of a clapping-seals audience desperate to celebrate this old clown, no matter what he says, after the Weinstein awkwardness, But then, huh, that's just them being them.
Someone here said it was like a roast-type speech at a time when a roast was the wrong tone. While I agree, it was worse than that. Even if it was spoke at a roast, it stunk; it didn't fail because it didn't aim to be a deprecatory tribute, it succeeded as a string of primitive insults wrapped in occasional shreds of praise. The short version of his speech is Diane is a no-talent, ugly leech with a lifelong dedication to dressing like a bag lady. I don't buy the claim some here make that the fellatrix quip slipped in that closing phrase was a compliment; it was merely an unusually lame and convoluted attempt at trashing her. (I don't care less about DK as an actress, btw.) The whole thing saddens me 'cause the speech confirms what I've long suspected (having lost interest in him years ago) he sucks. But am I really a lone opinionated wolf here or anyone else agree?
Jackketch, I don't know what you want, but I did think it funny. After all, she did.
I relistened, and there is no n. He says “lat” very clearly.
And if you were going to coin a word out of “philanthropy,” you’d need more of the “throp.”
But the lack of the n is fatal to this effort to absolve Woody.
This is a display of either not getting the joke, or stridently refusing to treat it as a joke.
Interesting. I think he was saying philantrix rather than fellatrix. Why would he call her a dick sucker in her big moment? He seemed to obviously like her and she seemed to obviously like him.
What the hell was she wearing? I watched her a few nights later on the Kimmel show expecting that she had put on a lot of weight. She had not. The Kimmel show was interesting in that while she was good and it was funny, she had to rely upon notes to get through the conversation. Very attractive (still, but much older than Something's Gotta Give) and very good actress, but pretty weird. Must have been a nice touch when she sang the song It Seems Like Old Times as the end of her acceptance speech. She could sing when young.
Keaton singing long ago.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V47Xj-0YbfE
It was sweet her singing It Seems Like Old Times. Not prepared. Sang accapella [sp?}
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fQseNfavHJA
No fan of Woody Allen, but I don't think he called her a fellatrix. His other remarks could have been viewed as somewhat male talking about a girl, but they are obviously friends and she begged him to present the award and enjoyed it.
@I Have Misplaced My Pants
"So how does it work if the 'super hot' girl responds, 'I'm impressed at the amount of thought you've put into mind-gaming women into touching your penis?"
That's a great outcome. It's called a "shit test" and in spite of the name, it is actually a good thing because it gives you an opportunity to display value by being witty and/or nonreactive.
Kyzernick's explanation of negs is also excellent and spot-on.
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