Althouse: "Democrats who stand in our way will be complicit in every murder committed by illegal immigrants."

January 21, 2018

"Democrats who stand in our way will be complicit in every murder committed by illegal immigrants."

Harsh words from a new ad at Donald J. Trump for President:

252 comments:

1 – 200 of 252 Newer› Newest»

American Liberal Elite said...: Trump logic.; 1/21/18, 1:54 PM
cubanbob said...: Trump is being factually correct. All he needs to say is the Republicans are the party of American people and the Democrats are the Party Of Other Countries People's.; 1/21/18, 2:00 PM
edwhy said...: I would prefer, as a native born American, to be murdered by an American citizen, born and bred.; 1/21/18, 2:05 PM
Big Mike said...: I don't see what's controversial about it. It's perfectly true.; 1/21/18, 2:18 PM
rhhardin said...: A better argument is that Trump bargains on behalf of Americans. We only make deals where we come out ahead. If the other guy comes out ahead too, then it's a deal. Otherwise not.

One trouble with merit-based, as Derbyshire argues this week, is that it strips shithole countries of its best people, leaving behind an even more shitty country when the talent is gone.

So no immigration that we don't need might be the best solution all around. And we don't need any.; 1/21/18, 2:21 PM
Molly said...: Here's what the source of the difficulty is: Democrats (many? most?) actually favor open borders -- a policy whereby any person in the world who wants to become a citizen of the US should be permitted under US law (perhaps with minimal exceptions for criminals or diseased). But Democrats won't say this out loud and present a reasonable argument because they think that honesty on this issue will hurt them politically, and that their arguments would ultimately be rejected by the US populace. So these Democrats opt for a back door way to achieve open borders: accept that there are laws restricting immigration, and pay lip service to enforcement; but actually oppose any law or action that would effectively put restrictions on immigration.; 1/21/18, 2:21 PM
Dear corrupt left, go F yourselves said...: Perfectly OK for Ninny Botox to utter harsh words.; 1/21/18, 2:22 PM
W.B. Picklesworth said...: Dems have already shot their "He's a racist" wad. This strikes me as some pretty strong leverage in the current shutdown/DACA battle.; 1/21/18, 2:26 PM
Jupiter said...: Chuck the Shmuck Schumer should be required to wear Luis Bracamontes around his neck for the rest of his life. Like a chicken-killing dog.; 1/21/18, 2:26 PM
Beloved Commenter AReasonableMan said...: edwhy said...
I would prefer, as a native born American, to be murdered by an American citizen, born and bred.

The good news is that this is the likely possibility, if one must be murdered.; 1/21/18, 2:27 PM
Anonymous said...: Big Mike: I don't see what's controversial about it. It's perfectly true.

That it's true is why it's controversial. (It's not perfectly true, because it should say "Democrats and Republicans who stand in our way...")

Lots of perfectly true things are "controversial" (and racist, sexist, divisive, mean-spirited, etc.) for certain people.

(See also, "hate facts".); 1/21/18, 2:27 PM
Big Mike said...: Trump does know how to make people pay for screwing with him. Neither Bush ever figured it out.; 1/21/18, 2:28 PM
Humperdink said...: Boy this Trump guy really knows how to tip-toe around the tough issues. A veritable shrinking violet.

Actually, he speaking truth to power. The power? Commie-pinko libs, The Media, RINO's, Elites, Swamp dwellers .... but I repeat myself (several times).; 1/21/18, 2:30 PM
BUMBLE BEE said...: rhhardin said...
So no immigration that we don't need might be the best solution all around. And we don't need any.

Ah, but, democrats have been aborting their voting base by the millions since roe v wade.
They are now demanding our welfare system buy them more.; 1/21/18, 2:31 PM
YoungHegelian said...: Trump being his usual histrionic & over-the-top self? Well, yes.

But, then, let's put this little gem on the "histrionic & over-the-top" scale:

The state’s top cop issued a warning to California employers Thursday that businesses face legal repercussions, including fines up to $10,000, if they assist federal immigration authorities with a potential widespread immigration crackdown

So, the sanctuary city/state nutjobs are now telling businesses that if you follow federal law & co-operate with federal authorities, we, state authorities, will fine you. So, you Mr. California Business Man, are now caught between a rock & a hard place.

Does California's AG jerk off at night fantasizing about Fort Sumter, or sumthin? If I was AG Sessions I'd pull him up on whatever I could charge him with. This shit simply cannot be allowed to stand.; 1/21/18, 2:32 PM
buwaya said...: Simply brutal propaganda.
In a propaganda war the side that limits its brutality loses.
There is a reason why the British claimed, in WWI, that the Germans were cutting off the hands of Belgian children.
This level of propaganda was SOP in Democratic party agitprop. The Republicans were historically self-limiting because of fear of MSM reaction, such as the fallout of advertising using the Willie Horton case.; 1/21/18, 2:33 PM
Dear corrupt left, go F yourselves said...: Kate Steinle not available for comment.; 1/21/18, 2:36 PM
Bruce Hayden said...: Pouring gasoline onto the fire, with the govt shut down right now over the Dems demand that we legalize maybe 10 million (many illegal) aliens.

Love how they have photos flash by of Schumer and Pelosi. She, at least is toxic throughout much of the country (which is why you expect to see her face in a lot of ads this fall). Unfortunately for the Republicans, she may not have the mental facilities to take over the Speakership, if the Dems do win a majority in the House in November. Schumer though is just too slick to come across as odious as his predecessor, Dingy Harry Reid, Though Reid, having been a boxer, would probably make the contest with Trump at least more interesting.; 1/21/18, 2:36 PM
mockturtle said...: Are there any sanctuary cities [or states] headed by Republicans? Just curious.; 1/21/18, 2:38 PM
William said...: Speaker Ryan says the ad is not productive. I don’t see how you can use productive and the U.S. Congress in the same sentence.; 1/21/18, 2:40 PM
buwaya said...: Not often noted, that in WWI German propaganda was relatively tame vs that of the Allies. And it had few ways to reach the rest of the world, the main path to penetrate into neutrals to sway their public opinion, as Britain, especially, controlled all communication channels of the day, especially what we would call the global MSM.

This is one reason Nazi propaganda was far more brutal and had enormously greater resources applied to it, especially in the matter of creating and maintaining communication channels. Still, the Allies and especially Britain and the Soviets kept an overwhelming advantage.; 1/21/18, 2:41 PM
madAsHell said...: Trump loves to troll.....and this is classic.; 1/21/18, 2:42 PM
buwaya said...: Ryan and co. want to keep the "rational" people on-side.
Althouse is one of these, usually. An anti-extremist.
The truth though is that you all are in a Cold Civil War.
The rational people are living in the past.; 1/21/18, 2:44 PM
Jupiter said...: AReasonableMan said...

"The good news is that this is the likely possibility, if one must be murdered."

Lott’s research found that although DACA-age illegals compose 0.81 percent of Arizona’s population, they represent 8 percent of the prison population. This means they compose 71.2 percent of the illegal immigrant population in prison and that they are 884 percent more likely to be convicted of crimes than non-immigrants of their age. If anything, “dreamers” are actually a bigger public s1afety risk than older illegal immigrants.

https://www.conservativereview.com/articles/new-study-flakes-daca-dream-arizonas-crime-nightmare/; 1/21/18, 2:45 PM
Bay Area Guy said...: If you ask a Democrat to honestly explain their position on immigration, they would say something like this: we need more imigration, more "diversity", and it doesn't matter if it's legal or illegal, and they should be allowed to vote and get government benefits just like everyone else, and if they murder someone, well, murder is wrong, that it's done by an illegal immigrant is not really relevant.; 1/21/18, 2:45 PM
Jupiter said...: So ARM, President Trump said;

"The Dems just want illegal immigrants to pour into our nation unchecked."

Do you deny it?; 1/21/18, 2:46 PM
Beloved Commenter AReasonableMan said...: As a moderate I am OK with eliminating illegal immigration, as best we can. The wall is BS but a greatly strengthened E-Verify would get you most of the way. Notably, Trump rarely mentions strengthening E-Verify.

I don't think that throwing the Dreamers out is a great idea. I have known a few Dreamers, all very successful people. In every case it was the incompetence of their guardians that led to their illegal status. In some cases it ultimately proved possible to resolve their status, others married US citizens, some are still illegal. These people are as American as any native-born citizen. Literally nothing to gained by throwing them out at this point.; 1/21/18, 2:46 PM
Hagar said...: There is nothing "gargantuan" about this maneuvering in the Senate; it is all very petty.; 1/21/18, 2:46 PM
Hagar said...: And "throwing the Dreamers out" is B.S. The Gov't could not get that done even if it was all agreed to, and they know that.; 1/21/18, 2:51 PM
Big Mike said...: such as the fallout of advertising using the Willie Horton case.

If anyone is interested, the 1988 Willie Horton attack ad against Michael Dukakis is is here. The media waited until enough time had passed, then proceeded to label it "racist." But note that most of the actors going through the revolving door are white.

Doesn't matter to a hard core leftist, does it?

Note also that Willie Horton had been sentenced to life without parole but was allowed under the Dukakis policy to have weekend furloughs(!?!?!) Of course he walked out of prison on furlough and fled Massachusetts. What did Dumbocrats expect? He wound up in Maryland raping a woman and trying to murder her fiance. He was caught by Maryland police, tried, convicted, and sentenced to consecutive life terms plus 85 years. The sentencing judge refused to return Horton to Massachusetts, saying, "I'm not prepared to take the chance that Mr. Horton might again be furloughed or otherwise released. This man should never draw a breath of free air again."; 1/21/18, 2:52 PM
Big Mike said...: ARM says "as a moderate."

[snort]; 1/21/18, 2:52 PM
Drago said...: ARM: "These people are as American as any native-born citizen."

Nope.

The Constitution and the law say otherwise.

But those things stand in the way of dems replacing the American electorate, so naturally those silly little things can be ignored by the lefties.; 1/21/18, 2:55 PM
traditionalguy said...: That's not harsh language at all. It is what the Democrats want to have publicized about their power over us. They are the ruling Brownshirt street thugs. And they want Americans to be afraid of them. Soros just set aside $18,000,0000,000 in stolen wealth to pay the BLM to kill Americans. That's what is harsh.

And by the way, disarming the Americans is still goal #1. That way peace and harmony can break out.; 1/21/18, 2:56 PM
Humperdink said...: ARM said: "... The wall is BS but a greatly strengthened E-Verify would get you most of the way...."

Yeah, wait until they are on US soil before you start "verifying". And please make sure they get driver's licenses and welfare bennies while they are here awaiting deportation. That'll solve the problem (sarc alert).

Another deferred amnesty program.; 1/21/18, 3:05 PM
BUMBLE BEE said...: Harsh??? WTF, from the "if it only saves one life" democrats. Let me call the WAAAAAAAAAAA mbulance!; 1/21/18, 3:10 PM
rhhardin said...: What makes you American is internalizing the rules of the Constitution.

The identity groups don't seem to have done that.; 1/21/18, 3:12 PM
Kevin said...: ARM says "as a moderate."

[snort]

Don't you know that all liberals are moderate? Everyone to the right of them is a white supremacist, and they know a few people who want full-on communism.; 1/21/18, 3:12 PM
Drago said...: Lefties take time out from saying a vote for republicans is a vote to burn black churches and from saying that republicans have already murdered every American 3 times over to complain about the harshness of republican ads.

Unexpectedly.; 1/21/18, 3:14 PM
Molly said...: To Humperdink: I think the argument on e-verify is that if we came down hard on employers, employers would start being a lot more careful about employing illegals, and illegals would have a greatly weakened incentive to immigrate in the first place. It's not so much that e-verify would tell us where the illegals are so that we could deport them.; 1/21/18, 3:17 PM
cronus titan said...: Democrats and the media have spent a generation glibly accusing Republicans of wanting to kill children and the elderly, and starve them before they do. Last week, Feinstein said shutting the government down would literally kill people. Trump throws it right back at them in spades. Like any other bully, they have no idea what to do when someone stands up to them.

Every US citizen killed by an illegal is avoidable. Democrats and the media just do not care all that much -- the death of others is a price they are willing to pay. They treated Kate Stendl as an irritant.; 1/21/18, 3:19 PM
JaimeRoberto said...: "Complicit". Sounds like he's going to turn another word around on his opponents.; 1/21/18, 3:21 PM
Trumpit said...: As president, I would offer free contraceptives, and abortions to all countries including our own. I would require it in exchange for foreign aid. This would include all shithole countries, and Norway. This planet is rapidly being overrun and destroyed by too many homos. I meant too many homo sapiens. Homos are not usually big on procreation for anatomical reasons, so homosexuality should be taught in schools as the preferred alternative. Isn't this what the late Supreme Court Justice Antonin Scalia advocated? For once, we are in agreement.; 1/21/18, 3:22 PM
Humperdink said...: Molly responded: "To Humperdink: I think the argument on e-verify is that if we came down hard on employers, employers would start being a lot more careful about employing illegals, and illegals would have a greatly weakened incentive to immigrate in the first place. It's not so much that e-verify would tell us where the illegals are so that we could deport them."

How do you "e-verify" someone who never gets on the payroll? Do you have any idea how many of our guests from south-of-the-border get paid in cash?; 1/21/18, 3:25 PM
Francisco D said...: ARM said: " As a moderate ... yada yada yada"

ARM is to moderation as Inga is to rational, analytical thought, Chuck is to life long Republicanism and Ritmo is to normal mental health.

I am really getting sick of the bullshit. I would rather engage people who were honest and somewhat thoughtful in their opinions.; 1/21/18, 3:27 PM
Ron Winkleheimer said...: One trouble with merit-based, as Derbyshire argues this week, is that it strips shithole countries of its best people, leaving behind an even more shitty country when the talent is gone.

I'm old enough to remember when that was standard leftist dogma. Siphoning off the best and brightest from undeveloped countries was another form of colonialism.

And Ryan is probably correct about the ad being unhelpful, for his purposes.; 1/21/18, 3:28 PM
Bill, Republic of Texas said...: Feinstein said shutting the government down would literally kill people.

And then voted to shutdown the government. Premeditated murder.; 1/21/18, 3:31 PM
buwaya said...: Francisco,

Thats my experience of over twenty years online, from Usenet days.

A left-liberal who is "honest and somewhat thoughtful" is an extremely rare creature.; 1/21/18, 3:32 PM
Bruce Hayden said...: “Lott’s research found that although DACA-age illegals compose 0.81 percent of Arizona’s population, they represent 8 percent of the prison population. This means they compose 71.2 percent of the illegal immigrant population in prison and that they are 884 percent more likely to be convicted of crimes than non-immigrants of their age. If anything, “dreamers” are actually a bigger public s1afety risk than older illegal immigrants.”

Which is the basis for my claim the other day that the thing that a number of then are dreaming about is their next convenience store heist, or drug deal, and not college.; 1/21/18, 3:33 PM
Comanche Voter said...: Whip it on 'em Donald. They have it coming in spades.; 1/21/18, 3:33 PM
Ron Winkleheimer said...: How do you "e-verify" someone who never gets on the payroll?

Exactly. One of the incentives for hiring an illegal is that you get to pay them off the books and avoid a variety of federal taxes. I remember being on a construction site and having to use the porta-potty. There was graffiti regarding illegal immigrants. It wasn't racial, it simply said that if they are going to work in the US they should pay their damn taxes.

If, in fact, there is a shortage of labor in the US, then the obvious solution would be a guest worker program. But then the employers would have to demonstrate that there was a shortage and there was no qualified US worker (which, by the way, the employers currently game around) and they would have to pay the taxes they are now avoiding.; 1/21/18, 3:34 PM
Francisco D said...: buwaya wrote: "A left-liberal who is "honest and somewhat thoughtful" is an extremely rare creature."

I agree. Yet, I welcome them to this site.

I am tired of dealing with people who have the intellectual and emotional depth of HS sophomores.; 1/21/18, 3:37 PM
readering said...: Went to a screening yesterday of The Final Year, with a Q and A afterwards by the director. Heartily recommend it.; 1/21/18, 3:42 PM
Humperdink said...: "How do you "e-verify" someone who never gets on the payroll? Do you have any idea how many of our guests from south-of-the-border get paid in cash?"

^^^^^^^^^^^ Employer pays no matching SS, no Workers Compensation insurance payments, no comp claims, no Unemployment Insurance payments, and no unemployment claims, no EEOC issues.; 1/21/18, 3:44 PM
Bruce Hayden said...: “I don't think that throwing the Dreamers out is a great idea. I have known a few Dreamers, all very successful people.”

The issue isn’t, and never has been, the “Dreamers” themselves, but their extended families, who would also get the benefit of whatever we do for them, through chain migration. Notice how a week ago, with the “shithole” controversy, that the Republicans were willing to normalize the status of the Dreamers, as long as chain migration was addressed, and the Wall funded. The Democrats have shown willingness to deal on the wall, but studiously are quit on chain migration, no matter how hard the Republicans push it. I think because it is what they are really after - 800k Dreamers added to the Dem voting rolls aren’t going to affect the outcome of voting in the country as a whole. But 10 million new Dem voters would. Of course, defending chain migration is close to impossible (which is why the Dems so studiously avoid discussing it, while not budging on it): for one thing, the first beneficiaries of the Dreamers getting better status would be their parents - who were the ones who brought them into this country illegally, and, if still here, are, no doubt, still illegal themselves (thanks to chain migration).; 1/21/18, 3:45 PM
traditionalguy said...: Talk about being complicit in Crimes against the American people, the 99% corrupt FBI and DOJ scum who spent 25 years covering up crimes for Clinton's cabal just bleach bit their own computers to hide the text messages proving their massive criminal activities perpetrated for Hillary and Obama.

The FBI is totally at war with the American people. And the winner has yet to be determined.; 1/21/18, 3:45 PM
Inga...Allie Oop said...: “ARM said: " As a moderate ... yada yada yada"

ARM is to moderation as Inga is to rational, analytical thought, Chuck is to life long Republicanism and Ritmo is to normal mental health.

I am really getting sick of the bullshit. I would rather engage people who were honest and somewhat thoughtful in their opinions.”

Francisco D is to psychology as Typhoid Mary was to infectious disease control.

#RunningWithScissorsPsychologist

I’m really getting sick of obsessive commenters who don’t realize how obviously weird it is to consistently mention certain commenters names when they haven’t even commented in the thread. He attempts to post a relevant comment only so he can sneak in a mention my and other commenter’s name. He never seems truly engaged in the conversation. The behavior is becoming more odd by the day.; 1/21/18, 3:46 PM
Gk1 said...: This ad comes at a great time for democrats trying to campaign in red states. Not only do they have to lie their asses off about not wanting to impeach trump if elected, they now have to lie about not wanting open borders. Would love to see how democrats get to the right of trump on this or any other immigration issue. No one is fooled by the party of Nancy Pelosi.; 1/21/18, 3:49 PM
n.n said...: It's like throwing Granny off the cliff... or redistributing Granny's savings to create an illusion that Obamacare is viable.

There are four issues concerning illegal aliens. One, their discretionary observance of common laws engenders progressive corruption. Two, for every deported illegal alien who would have aborted, raped, or otherwise violated a native American man, woman, or child, or invited guest, that is one more native American man, woman, or child, or invited guest, who is not aborted, raped, or otherwise violated. Three, the impact and disruption forced by illegal aliens has been largely or mostly absorbed. Four, immigration reform is evidence to address emigration reform, as well as Planned Parenthood and other dodo behaviors and orientations.

That said, emigration reform to address shitshows, shitholes, and shitfaced anti-nativists who create shitshows and shitholes.; 1/21/18, 3:54 PM
n.n said...: Emigration reform before immigration reform.

Lives deemed worthy before Planned Parenthood and abortion rites.

Equality before political congruence.

Trees before the forest.

Self-defense before social justice adventures that are first-order anthropogenic forcings of shitshows, shitholes, and shitfaced anti-native bigots.; 1/21/18, 3:58 PM
Bruce Hayden said...: “The FBI is totally at war with the American people. And the winner has yet to be determined.”

To be fair to the FBI, most of its agents appear to be fairly straight arrows. It is just their management, and esp their top management in DC, that have sold out their fellow countrymen, as major players in the Deep State. Figure about 35k employees, with maybe 14k gun totters, and the rest support personnel. Of those, I would expect that > 34k are probably decent human beings and loyal Americans.; 1/21/18, 4:02 PM
Beloved Commenter AReasonableMan said...: Francisco D said...
I am really getting sick of the bullshit. I would rather engage people who were honest and somewhat thoughtful in their opinions.

First of all, no one cares what you think, it's the internet.

Second, stop all ad hominem attacks and more reasonable people would turn up to discuss things. The constant personal attacks against people who don't toe the line here drives off most thoughtful people leaving only those who parrot a particular ideology. I'm used to your kind of behavior so it has no effect, unfortunately this is not more broadly true amongst the more moderate commentators.; 1/21/18, 4:04 PM
Diogenes of Sinope said...: The Left constantly tell us that "undocumented immigrants" ARE better, more hardworking, smarter than us US citizens and they certainly aren't criminals. So, according to the Left, there will be few if any murders committed by undocumented immigrants. So what are the Democrats worried about?; 1/21/18, 4:05 PM
FullMoon said...: I’m really getting sick of obsessive commenters who don’t realize how obviously weird it is to consistently mention certain commenters names when they haven’t even commented in the thread.

Wow,bit of an over reaction to some good natured teasing.

Anyway, hear Limbaugh say the left actually believes the crazy things they say about Trump. Always assumed they were not serious, but simply sticking to their talking points. Could lefties here actually think Trump is stupid, senile,racist, sexist anti semite mentally deranged? Hard to believe they could be that stupid. Easier to believe they are just fooling around.; 1/21/18, 4:05 PM
bagoh20 said...: "Notably, Trump rarely mentions strengthening E-Verify."

We have used it to screen applicants since it was first started. I was recently advised by my HR consultant to stop doing it immediately in California, as the authorities there will now prosecute or fine employers for using it to deny a job to an illegal. Some officials in California need to go to jail.; 1/21/18, 4:11 PM
Humperdink said...: Anytime I was assigned to a failing department or plant, the first task was always the same: stop the bleeding.

In the case illegal immigration, it's stop the influx. Before you can deal with who is here illegally, you must first keep the number from getting any larger. For the uninitiated, it's build the wall first. Screw the negotiations. We'll talk later.; 1/21/18, 4:13 PM
Paul said...: The Democrats have to balance out the votes. Do they get more illegal votes than the number of citizens that die.

That's an easy choice for them.; 1/21/18, 4:19 PM
The Godfather said...: I think DACA is going to be handled. Trump wants to do it, provided chain migration is eliminated, and I think the Dems are going to have to suck it up and accept that. My radical proposal relates to the next stage of the illegal immigration controversy, and that is that we start treating illegal immigrants as illegal. Every illegal immigrant (unless he or she has a duly-awarded deferred-deportation status) should be in constant fear of apprehension and deportation. In previous administrations you repeatedly saw people standing up on public platforms or on some TV or radio broadcast saying they were illegal immigrants (or whatever euphemism they used), and that they demanded that people like them be given legal status. They seemed perfectly comfortable that the INS would not show up at their home the next day, or even arrest them as they left the demonstration, and deport them. Under Trump you don’t see that so much.

I would feel a lot more comfortable granting (or extending, if you want to pretend DACA was legal) protected status to “Dreamers” if I were confident that illegals who weren’t given that status were under constant threat of deportation. Even in California.; 1/21/18, 4:20 PM
Francisco D said...: Inga,

I will give you credit. You are not someone who pretends they are something they are not, unlike Chuck and ARM. You are as intellectually inconsistent as they are, but I ascribe that to your stupidity and their blatant phoniness.

It is interesting to note that you monitor the site to see if anyone brings up your name.

Who is the obsessive one? Discuss with the person of your choice.; 1/21/18, 4:27 PM
Francisco D said...: ARM,

Ad hominem attacks are your speciality, except that you make it against any group that disagrees with you.

What bullshit!; 1/21/18, 4:28 PM
Phil 314 said...: So ARM, you don't support the "clean DACA" ploy but would support a bill that includes keeping DACA, strengthening e-verify and maybe some other items that please both sides.

You are clearly NOT a congressional democrat.; 1/21/18, 4:30 PM
David said...: And this is just the opening statement.; 1/21/18, 4:33 PM
Beloved Commenter AReasonableMan said...: You confuse disagreement over policy etc. with ad hominem attacks. I don't care the slightest about you or what you think about me. Completely uninterested. I am interested in hearing a range of ideas. People like you stifle debate not strengthen it.

In this thread I agree that we should stop illegal immigration, as I have multiple times before, but this is not good enough, only total subservience to the prevailing (and ever changing) right wing BS machine is satisfactory. Sad!; 1/21/18, 4:33 PM
Robert Cook said...: Is wide-spread murder of Americans by illegal immigrants a thing? I'd guess it is a fake thing.; 1/21/18, 4:34 PM
Jupiter said...: AReasonableMan said...

"I have known a few Dreamers, all very successful people."

Really? You haven't run into any MS-13 members who cut off your head? Pity. Perhaps your experience is not actually representative.; 1/21/18, 4:35 PM
Beloved Commenter AReasonableMan said...: Phil 3:14 said...
You are clearly NOT a congressional democrat.

I am not any kind of Democrat. I disagree with the Democrats and most Republican politicians on this issue.

I think immigration policy should primarily reflect the interests of those already here. The problem at the moment is that there is no broad consensus on what those interests are.; 1/21/18, 4:37 PM
Lyle Smith said...: Fight Democrats with a Democrat logic. Fair is fair.; 1/21/18, 4:38 PM
Francisco D said...: ARM,

Your dishonesty stifles any type of intellectual debate. It is Clintonian.

You know the game you are playing, just like Bill and Hillary.

Don't play the victim. You are the dishonest aggressor. I am just pointing out the obvious.; 1/21/18, 4:44 PM
Humperdink said...: ARM said: "The problem at the moment is that there is no broad consensus on what those interests are. "

This statement is rather ludicrous. The reason we do not have a broad consensus is that the D's are looking for votes, swamp dwelling R's are looking to not rock the boat, middle class worker bees want the illegals outta here, business people want cheap labor. Looking for consensus is this collection of varied interests? You'll be awhile.; 1/21/18, 4:45 PM
The Cracker Emcee Refulgent said...: "And Ryan is probably correct about the ad being unhelpful, for his purposes."

Deliberately so by Trump. Keeping the government shut down for a few days while beating the hapless Democrats over the head with this issue is exactly what Trump (and, I suspect, Ryan) wants. Does anyone seriously believe Donk leadership isn't being screamed at this weekend by Red State Dems who don't want to be sacrificed on this altar?; 1/21/18, 4:45 PM
Robert Cook said...: "Simply brutal propaganda.
In a propaganda war the side that limits its brutality loses.
There is a reason why the British claimed, in WWI, that the Germans were cutting off the hands of Belgian children.
This level of propaganda was SOP in Democratic party agitprop. The Republicans were historically self-limiting because of fear of MSM reaction, such as the fallout of advertising using the Willie Horton case."

Was George H.W. Bush "self-limiting" when he lied that Iraqi soldiers were throwing Kuwaiti babies out of hospital incubators to die on the floor? Or George W. Bush when he claimed that Saddam Hussein posed an existential threat to America, warning us that if we did not act the "smoking gun would be in the shape of a mushroom cloud?"

Both parties serve the ruling elites--the rich--and they both lie and promulgate propaganda.; 1/21/18, 4:45 PM
Inga...Allie Oop said...: “Inga,

I will give you credit. You are not someone who pretends they are something they are not, unlike Chuck and ARM. You are as intellectually inconsistent as they are, but I ascribe that to your stupidity and their blatant phoniness.

It is interesting to note that you monitor the site to see if anyone brings up your name.

Who is the obsessive one? Discuss with the person of your choice.”

Do you have absolutely no self awareness? You call yourself a psychologist on your profile page, yet I haven’t ever dealt with a psychologist or psychiatrist who displays the obsessive, aggressive and angry overtones that you do. What can I ascribe your bizarre behavior to? Dementia, psychopathy, substance abuse? Then as a cherry on top of your crazy cake you accuse me of “monitoring the site”. Does such a comment sound normal in your mind? I still read Althouse posts and sometimes commentary even I occasionally choose not to comment.

And stop using Althouse’s comments section as forum to exercise your aggression. You cast a pall on every thread in which you obsess over me, or Ritmo, or ARM, or Chuck, try to control your impulses to do so, unless you want me to tell you that you are psycho.

#RunningWithScissorsPsychologist, still crazy after all these years.; 1/21/18, 4:47 PM
Beloved Commenter AReasonableMan said...: Francisco D, there is roughly a 20:1 mix of right wingers to everyone else. If you can't thrive in that environment then there is no safe space safe enough for you.; 1/21/18, 4:47 PM
Robert Cook said...: "Really? You haven't run into any MS-13 members who cut off your head? Pity. Perhaps your experience is not actually representative."

If you assert that illegal immigrants are mostly MS-13 members, and that they are on a widespread campaign of cutting off the heads of American citizens, I'd say it's you whose experience is not representative.; 1/21/18, 4:48 PM
n.n said...: Fight Democrats with a Democrat logic.

It's not Democrat logic from the twilight fringe or through political congruence. It's objectively true.

If an illegal alien does not abort, rape, or otherwise violate an American woman or girl, that American woman or girl may be aborted, raped, or otherwise violated by an American, legal resident, or another illegal alien, but not by the illegal alien who was deported. So, the population size for these particular crimes against the individual and society is reduced by one. Every one counts in a non-"diverse" society.; 1/21/18, 4:52 PM
Lyle Smith said...: This comment has been removed by the author.; 1/21/18, 4:52 PM
Jim Howard said...: My wife and I lost a good friend a couple of months ago. Linda was murdered by an illegal alien who skipped back to Mexico where he can't be extradited.; 1/21/18, 4:54 PM
Robert Cook said...: "In the case illegal immigration, it's stop the influx. Before you can deal with who is here illegally, you must first keep the number from getting any larger."

The flow of illegal immigrants into this country was dropping even during Obama's administration.; 1/21/18, 4:54 PM
Lyle Smith said...: If Republicans are responsible for killing people by not supporting Obamacare, Democrats are responsible for killing Americans whenever an illegal immigrant kills a citizen.; 1/21/18, 4:55 PM
Lyle Smith said...: Robert Cook,

Because the Obama economy sucked.; 1/21/18, 4:56 PM
Bilwick said...: "'Illegals?' 'Murders'? What murders by illegal immigrants? Never heard of such a thing!"--Your average stupid "liberal" emerging (albeit briefly) from the Cocoon.; 1/21/18, 4:59 PM
Inga...Allie Oop said...: “RESTON, Va. (ABC7) — The Lorton teen who remains in the hospital after allegedly shooting and killing his girlfriend's parents in their home in Reston, Virginia this past December before shooting himself was served with petitions Friday morning, police say.
The teen, who is suspected of having neo-Nazi beliefs, already had been charged with murder for allegedly shooting and killing Buckley Kuhn-Fricker, 43, and her husband Scott Fricker, 48. Police say they are still not identifying the suspect because of his age.“

Murders? Murders by home grown neo nazi’s!? How many Dreamers became neo nazi’s?; 1/21/18, 5:02 PM
Humperdink said...: Hump said: "In the case illegal immigration, it's stop the influx. Before you can deal with who is here illegally, you must first keep the number from getting any larger."

Robert Cook responded: "The flow of illegal immigrants into this country was dropping even during Obama's administration."

You apparently fail to grasp the difference between dropping and stopping. Just as there is a difference as when one approaches an intersection - a yield sign is different than stop sign. Obama was all about yielding. Trump wants a fresh approach. Hope this helps.; 1/21/18, 5:06 PM
Bilwick said...: Another brilliant Inga post! She must be the Belle of Mensa.; 1/21/18, 5:06 PM
Beloved Commenter AReasonableMan said...: Lyle Smith said...
Because the Obama economy sucked.

Wasn't it the Great Bush Recession.; 1/21/18, 5:07 PM
Night Owl said...: Pretty strong. But if you want brutal, try this:

The Democrats' open-border immigration policy drives down wages, imports poverty and hurts poor people-- many of them minority households headed by single mothers-- by straining the public services available to the poor.

The Democrat immigration policy is racist because it imports poor brown people to serve rich white people.

The Democrats were historically the party that was against freeing the slaves, and they haven't changed much. They still want an exploitable, low-paid underclass that will clean their toilets, watch their kids and mow their lawns. They occasionally slip up and admit it, and then are shocked by their own racism.

I bet speaker Ryan would label this kind of talk "unproductive". Yeah, well, it's not productive when leftists label people "racists" merely for disagreeing with them, but that's never stopped them.; 1/21/18, 5:07 PM
bagoh20 said...: Dreamers are more prone to M-13 affiliation than Nazism. Which one is more dangerous today, more murderous, kills more immigrants?; 1/21/18, 5:08 PM
Inga...Allie Oop said...: Dylann Roof, a good home grown red blooded American, murdering black epeople in their prayer meeting. Where can we deport the neo Nazis to? The neo nazi who ran down Heather Heyer with his car in Charlottesville. They seem to have a penchant for murder.; 1/21/18, 5:09 PM
Dear corrupt left, go F yourselves said...: Dem party platform: Illegals come first.; 1/21/18, 5:09 PM
Beloved Commenter AReasonableMan said...: Brady wins again.; 1/21/18, 5:10 PM
Humperdink said...: @Inga, any reports of Mormons murdering Jehovah Witnesses? Evangelicals killing Orthodox Jews? Tea Partiers shooting Dem congresscritters at the ball field? Right wingers pummeling Dem senators over grass clippings?; 1/21/18, 5:12 PM
Dear corrupt left, go F yourselves said...: Where can we deport the crazed leftwing Bernie Bros who shoot up congressional baseball games?; 1/21/18, 5:12 PM
Dear corrupt left, go F yourselves said...: This comment has been removed by the author.; 1/21/18, 5:13 PM
Inga...Allie Oop said...: “Dem party platform: Illegals come first.”

Republican Party platform, pretend neo nazi’s are “very good people”. Demonize Dreamers who were brought here by their parents.; 1/21/18, 5:13 PM
Robert Cook said...: "Because the Obama economy sucked."

A legacy of the 2008 collapse. It's still too soon to see what kind of economy we're going to have under Trump. Claims of great improvement are premature and, to the degree they are true, may well be the results of the last years of Obama's presidency. Economic trends don't change on a dime with the changing of a president. Moreover, one must always be skeptical of any claims made in the short term, until one can actually study statistics to see the reality. I dismiss any claims about employment rates, as they fudge their terms that one cannot really know if people are actually finding jobs or not, or whether the jobs that are available are good jobs with good pay and benefits and career tracks or if they are low-wage service jobs, part-time jobs, or temp jobs, all which have no career track or benefits.; 1/21/18, 5:13 PM
Dear corrupt left, go F yourselves said...: Is there anything more annoying than the Patriots winning - again? no. How intensely boring.; 1/21/18, 5:13 PM
n.n said...: Fight Democrats with a Democrat logic.

Upon further reflection, it is Democrat logic. That's one less diversitist. One less left-wing ideologue (e.g. Nazi, Communist, Socialist, Fascist). That's one less female and male chauvinist. That's one less divergent process. That's one less monotonic function. That's one less male to "punish" women and girls. That's one less individual to commit abortion, rape, or otherwise violate American men, women, boys, girls, and babies. That's more taxpayer revenue redistributed to serve American men, women, children, and babies, and invited guests.; 1/21/18, 5:17 PM
Humperdink said...: Jupiter said upthread: "Lott’s research found that although DACA-age illegals compose 0.81 percent of Arizona’s population, they represent 8 percent of the prison population. This means they compose 71.2 percent of the illegal immigrant population in prison and that they are 884 percent more likely to be convicted of crimes than non-immigrants of their age. If anything, “dreamers” are actually a bigger public s1afety risk than older illegal immigrants.

https://www.conservativereview.com/articles/new-study-flakes-daca-dream-arizonas-crime-nightmare/"

Inga, can you provide a link with some stats to back up you apparent assertion that crazed home grown right-wingers are committing an inordinate amount of violent acts. Or are you playing farmer today and just cherry picking?; 1/21/18, 5:18 PM
Robert Cook said...: "You apparently fail to grasp the difference between dropping and stopping."

No, I very well grasp the difference: one is possible and the other is not.

Moreover, even if "stopping" illegal immigration were actually possible, it could only occur by first causing it to start "dropping."; 1/21/18, 5:19 PM
Inga...Allie Oop said...: “ A potential DACA beneficiary is called a DREAMer, a term derived from the 2001 Development, Relief, and Education for Alien Minors (DREAM) Act, a popular piece of legislation designed to legalize many illegal immigrants who were brought to the United States at a young age.3 News of individual DREAMers committing crimes contributed to the public perception that DREAMers are disproportionately crime prone and may influence President Trump’s decision to cancel or continue DACA.4 In fact, DREAMers have lower incarceration rates than native-born Americans of the same age and education level.”

https://www.cato.org/publications/immigration-research-policy-brief/dreamer-incarceration-rate; 1/21/18, 5:19 PM
Dear corrupt left, go F yourselves said...: Inga- That isn't anything close to a platform on the R-side. Two groups of a-holes fighting in Charlotesville all you got? I know you think leftwing fascists hiding behind masks and swinging baseball bats are all perfectly cool - but not so. They are on the same level with any white supremacist. There are millions of people here who are not legal - and how many white supremacists are there, 500 maybe? I doubt even that many.

The topic at hand, illegal immigration, a topic you ignore while you spout infantile nonsense, IS THE DEMOCRAT PARTY PLATFORM.; 1/21/18, 5:22 PM
Inga...Allie Oop said...: “Crime Risk?
In listing his reasons for rescinding DACA, Sessions also cited the need to enforce immigration laws “to ensure the safety and security of the American people.”

However, according to the U.S. Citizenship and Immigration Services, those who committed “a felony offense, a significant misdemeanor offense, or three or more other misdemeanor offenses” are not eligible for DACA. Neither are those who pose a public safety threat, which “include, but are not limited to, gang membership, participation in criminal activities, or participation in activities that threaten the United States.”

Also, there is no evidence that DACA holders are more likely to commit crimes than U.S. citizens.

As we wrote in February, numerous studies have found that immigrants do not commit crimes at a higher rate than non-immigrants. A recap of the literature on this topic can be found here. A 2013 study published in American Sociological Review confirmed that immigration is strongly associated with less violence in a neighborhood.“

https://www.factcheck.org/2017/09/spinning-facts-daca/; 1/21/18, 5:23 PM
Mr. Fabulous said...: (World Famous Lurker says....)

Francisco D, While I would generally agree with you politically, as a long time lurker I would say that you're not really being fair to ARM. Of the regular lefty commenters here, we have 3 out of the best 5 on this very thread: ARM, Inga and Robert Cook.

Robert Cook - I wish he would comment more here here at Althouse. He is a naive hick from NYC, but very smart. I always read his comments. Not a "troll".

Inga - Reliably lefty, but shows full awareness of the thread and will engage in conversation/debate. Might be a troll, but she is not unreachable, and people change.

ARM - shows up to debate and engage. Smart, but partisan. Not a fanatic. Probably the most effective lefty regularly showing up on this blog. Don't think he's a troll, but don't care. Challenge him with your ideas, facts and principles (And not with n.n's principals.)

As for the other 2 regularly contributing decent lefty commenters, WWWW and J Farmer, Francisco, I'd like to see you and J Farmer getting into it! :)

As to the LLR, Chuck, and the crazy TTR stuff from Ritmo, Chuck's posts are the only ones I normally skip over, and only read Ritmo's posts early in the day, when he's sober.; 1/21/18, 5:26 PM
Humperdink said...: R> Cook said: "No, I very well grasp the difference: one is possible and the other is not.

Moreover, even if "stopping" illegal immigration were actually possible, it could only occur by first causing it to start "dropping."

That was Obama's claim: "Hey, it's dropping". Not an admirable achievement. Especially watching video of train loads of illegals heading our way.; 1/21/18, 5:29 PM
Dear corrupt left, go F yourselves said...: Denver Defends Release of Illegal Immigrant Later Charged in Murder; 1/21/18, 5:30 PM
Dear corrupt left, go F yourselves said...: Five of six men indicted in metro Denver heroin-ring bust are in the U.S. illegally; 1/21/18, 5:31 PM
Dear corrupt left, go F yourselves said...: Senator Byrd(D) was a KKK grand Kleagle. That makes the entire democrat party white supremacist. Using Inga logic.; 1/21/18, 5:32 PM
Dear corrupt left, go F yourselves said...: As sanctuary city, Denver sides with illegal immigrants over citizens; 1/21/18, 5:33 PM
Anonymous said...: Apparently our resident progs, not content with the amount of mayhem and murder perp'd by the native born, demand equal opportunity for the criminally-inclined non-native-born to do the same on our soil.

This is the age of Masks Coming Off. I look forward to the resident cheerleaders of imprudent immigration policy coming clean on the real reasons for their support of de facto open borders. Doubtless one or two have no coherent notion under their pussy hats of why they support such nonsense, but surely some of the others can join the motley crew of commies, neocons, CoC cheap labor pigs, and various ethnic and racial grudge-holders, in articulating their support for obviously stupid, destructive toleration of massive illegal immigration. C'mon guys, let it all hang out. Ditch the sophistry. You know you want to.; 1/21/18, 5:33 PM
Jim at said...: These people are as American as any native-born citizen. - ARM

No. They aren't.

We are either a nation of laws, or we aren't.

Now, I'm willing to accept we aren't. But people like you won't like it one bit when people like me start picking and choosing which laws to ignore.

Careful what you wish for, Mr. Moderate. You just might get it.; 1/21/18, 5:41 PM
Anonymous said...: Robert Cook: No, I very well grasp the difference: one is possible and the other is not.

The idea that illegal immigration is impossible to stop is nonsense. It is, however, a favorite unevidenced assertion of people who, for whatever reason, are hysterically opposed to any nation (or rather, some subset of nations) controlling immigration. It's propaganda, full stop.

Fixing every problem everywhere in the world to make the desire to immigrate moot, on the other hand, is indeed impossible.; 1/21/18, 5:44 PM
Francisco D said...: Dickin' wrote: "Senator Byrd(D) was a KKK grand Kleagle. That makes the entire democrat party white supremacist. Using Inga logic."

Logic and Inga are completely inconsistent. Its all about emotion with her.

BTW, I do not like your new name. It is almost as stupid as the obsessive victim Inga.; 1/21/18, 5:44 PM
Rosalyn C. said...: I don't know where the stats come from that claim that illegal immigrants are just as likely to commit crimes as native born citizens, or are creating safer communities. The stats on prison population in CA prisons shows that the Hispanic immigrant population (about 80% from Mexico BTW) outnumbers their percentage of the population. 39% of CA's population is Hispanic, 41.3% of CA's prison population are Hispanic. Certainly not LESS likely to commit crimes. (https://www.cdcr.ca.gov/Reports_Research/Offender_Information_Services_Branch/Annual/Census/CENSUSd1306.pdf)

Further, "Of the 45,493 foreign-born inmates in the federal prison system made up of 188,658 inmates, the Justice Department said 3,939 are U.S. citizens. According to the agency data, immigration orders have been issued for 54.2 percent — about 22,541 — of the remaining 41,554 incarcerated immigrants. Another 33.4 percent, about 13,886 inmates, are under investigation by U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement for possible removal." (http://thehill.com/latino/331619-doj-releases-data-on-incarceration-rates-of-illegal-immigrants)

The bigger issue for me is this pattern which has existed for many decades of Mexicans coming to the US because there is not a functional economy for them in Mexico. Many people believe that Mexico is just a "very poor country" but in fact Carlos Slim, a Mexican businessman, was the wealthiest man in the world from 2010-2013. He didn't seem to have a problem making a living in Mexico. No one seems to question or discuss what is going on or why the US should provide the solution to Mexico's problems.

I could go on, about the local crime problem and influx of Mexican cartel living around the corner from me as well as the increase in crime, and the insane hysterics in the community when ICE stepped in to arrest gang members when intel indicated that murders were imminent. Maybe another time.; 1/21/18, 5:51 PM
Inga...Allie Oop said...: “Logic and Inga are completely inconsistent. Its all about emotion with her.

BTW, I do not like your new name. It is almost as stupid as the obsessive victim Inga.”

It’s all about aggression with this guy. Maybe he can’t kick his wife’s dog so he comes here to let off steam before he blows his top and goes on a shooting spree. The Las Vegas shooter comes to mind.; 1/21/18, 5:52 PM
Sam L. said...: Harsh words are necessary. True, too,; 1/21/18, 5:53 PM
Francisco D said...: Mr. Fabulous,

Interesting thoughts that I appreciate. Thank you.

Where we disagree (respectfully) is wth Inga and ARM.

ARM is not a moderate. IMHO, he's a condescending leftist. Perhaps, a retired social science instructor at a community college.

Inga is a CNA with little knowledge, analytical ability or useful input.

People can disagree. I enjoy intelligent disagreement. I don't like to debate with people who have it all figured put because of something they read (and copied) it on the internet.

I do not enjoy disagreement with poseurs or idiots. It is like teaching pigs to sing, it hurts your ears and and annoys the pig.; 1/21/18, 5:54 PM
Jim at said...: Do you have absolutely no self awareness?

Of all people on this board, Inga wrote that.
Seriously.; 1/21/18, 5:55 PM
Anonymous said...: Jim at: Now, I'm willing to accept we aren't. But people like you won't like it one bit when people like me start picking and choosing which laws to ignore.

Ah, but Jim, they're relying on people like you to go right on behaving like responsible law-abiding people. It's worked so well for them so far. Being the scofflaw free rider in a country where a critical mass of chumps will continue to obey and believe in Rule of Law is a pretty sweet deal. Until recently they've been quite successful in bamboozling you to take all the responsibility for maintaining a functioning (and profitable to them) First World society by appealing to your morals, your humanity, your honor.

I get the impression that they're pretty unsettled at the dawning realization that maybe the chumps aren't buying it anymore. You can smell the fear. The hysterical doubling-down on the "but but you chumps, er, my fellow Americans" bs is getting pretty comical these days, though.; 1/21/18, 5:57 PM
Jim at said...: may well be the results of the last years of Obama's presidency. - Cook

Yeah. Because economists agree, it's the NINTH year in which the President's policies kick in.

I swear, you people don't even try anymore.; 1/21/18, 5:59 PM
Inga...Allie Oop said...: “Inga is a CNA with little knowledge, analytical ability or useful input.”

Excuse me? While I respect the very hard work that CNA’s do, I am an RN and have been one for 35 years, you psycho asshole. Do you realize that by denigrating the nursing profession you reveal what a despicable asshole psycho you are? I suspect Francisco lost his liscense to practice a while back, no psychologist that behaves the way he does could or should remain in practice.; 1/21/18, 6:00 PM
Inga...Allie Oop said...: Did I say Francisco was a psycho asshole? Why yes I did.; 1/21/18, 6:01 PM
Robert Cook said...: Mr. Fabulous, I take exception to your comment that I am "a naive hick from NYC...."

I may live in NYC, but I am not from NYC! I was born in Evansville, Indiana and grew up (from age 8) in the Jacksonville Beach(es), Florida. I did not move to NYC until I was 25.

Thank you for your kind words, otherwise.; 1/21/18, 6:09 PM
James K said...: the fallout of advertising using the Willie Horton case.

As I recall, it was one of Dukakis's Dem opponents that first brought up Willie Horton. But it was only when a Republican opponent raised it that the whole "Racist!" charge appeared.; 1/21/18, 6:10 PM
Robert Cook said...: "Because economists agree, it's the NINTH year in which the President's policies kick in."

Really? Does my comment really have to be explained to you...or are you simply playing dumb rhetorically?; 1/21/18, 6:11 PM
Humperdink said...: In response to an unnamed commenter who rebutted claims of illegal immigration violence with ridiculous examples such as one neo-Nazi and Dylan Roof, I offer the following:

"SAN ANTONIO — A Texas grand jury returned a second murder indictment Wednesday against a former Texas nurse who was previously convicted in the murder of other children. Prosecutors say she could be responsible for the deaths of up to 60 young children."

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2017/06/22/nurse-charged-murder/418462001/

Same logic.; 1/21/18, 6:12 PM
Night Owl said...: The Democratic party position on immigration is more extreme than ARM's reasonable position stated at 2:46 pm. Otherwise they would've successfully struck a deal with Trump, since it's doubtful Trump wants to kick out all the "dreamers"-- just the criminal ones.

But the party is now representing the RESISTANCE!, and would rather engage in govt. shutdown theatrics to fire-up their Trump-hating base, than negotiate in good faith. Trump should be as brutal with the Democrat party as possible on immigration.

Some more ad ideas; they write themselves:

The Democrats want to buy the votes of illegal immigrants at the expense of poor Americans.

The Democrat's immigration policies hurt the American poor. Single-mothers and minorities hardest hit.; 1/21/18, 6:15 PM
Francisco D said...: "Excuse me? While I respect the very hard work that CNA’s do, I am an RN and have been one for 35 years"

Excuse me. You have an associates degree. That makes you an intellectual sort of like Bill Nye's BA makes him a climate scientist.

I am really tired of poseurs.; 1/21/18, 6:20 PM
Mr. Fabulous said...: (World Famous Lurker says....)

Next I'll assess the regular righty trolls - looking at you Drago! :)

Francisco, the thing about trolls is that they are like dogs: if you feed them, they hang around looking for more. Inga, while sweet, isn't worth your trouble. ARM is. All leftists are condescending. Not all leftists are impervious to facts, links, principles, superior arguments, etc. If you want a quality debate and exchange of ideas tonight, ARM is your best bet, followed by a long ways off by Robert Cook, who is under the severe disadvantage of being in/from NYC.

I still want to see you and J Farmer go at it, and debate the issues of today in this forum. Everyone loves the playoff games.; 1/21/18, 6:23 PM
Achilles said...: Inga said...

Also, there is no evidence that DACA holders are more likely to commit crimes than U.S. citizens.

As we wrote in February, numerous studies have found that immigrants do not commit crimes at a higher rate than non-immigrants. A recap of the literature on this topic can be found here. A 2013 study published in American Sociological Review confirmed that immigration is strongly associated with less violence in a neighborhood.

I love it when democrats argue that illegal immigrants are better than US citizens.

Stick with that one. It will surely win elections.; 1/21/18, 6:28 PM
Achilles said...: But then again democrats can usually convince illegals to vote 2 or 3 times so they are obviously more useful.; 1/21/18, 6:29 PM
Inga...Allie Oop said...: “Excuse me. You have an associates degree. That makes you an intellectual sort of like Bill Nye's BA makes him a climate scientist.”

The Running With Scissors Psychologist is trying to get me to tell him what sort of degree I have, so obsessive. You have absolutely NO idea what sort of degree I hold, nor is it your business. First he says I’m a CNA, wrong, then he says I’m an ADN, wrong. How assuredly he proclaims to know my degree, WTF? When I tell him he’s wrong, he goes on to guess again. Does he hate nurses? What IS his problem? Can’t he discuss the issue of the blog post?

#RunningWith ScissorsPsychologist; 1/21/18, 6:33 PM
Achilles said...: Mr. Fabulous said...

Francisco, the thing about trolls is that they are like dogs: if you feed them, they hang around looking for more.

I don't see any honest to goodness trolls on this sight. A troll is completely disinterested in outcomes and is only interested in emotional response. If this is the only comment board you read you wouldn't have seen a real troll. Try some gaming forums for that.

Some of the people here argue in bad faith and dishonestly, but they are not trolls.; 1/21/18, 6:37 PM
Francisco D said...: Mr. Fabulous,

You have been a very observant lurker.

J. Farmer annoyed me in the past with (what I considered to be) pedantic responses.

As it turns out, I respect his knowledge and mostly agree with his views. He seems bright and well informed.

This is an interesting experience, which I hope would not be polluted by ideological idiots.; 1/21/18, 6:37 PM
Humperdink said...: Inga asked: "Can’t he discuss the issue of the blog post?"

You're the one who brought up Dylan Roof.; 1/21/18, 6:37 PM
Inga...Allie Oop said...: “ARM is your best bet, followed by a long ways off by Robert Cook...”

He’s intimidated by ARM and Robert Cook, he can’t argue on their level. He’s not interested in debate or discussion at all, get it? Oh hell, he can’t argue at all, he’s only here to let off steam before he... you know...; 1/21/18, 6:38 PM
mockturtle said...: My mother always said that the best way to stop people sneaking across the border is to start shooting them. :-); 1/21/18, 6:39 PM
Inga...Allie Oop said...: “Inga asked: "Can’t he discuss the issue of the blog post?"

You're the one who brought up Dylan Roof.”

Oh good grief. You have no earthly clue as to why I mentioned Dylann Roof? Just gotta shake one’s head. Truly.; 1/21/18, 6:40 PM
Mr. Fabulous said...: (World Famous Lurker says....)

I stand corrected Robert. My humble apologies.

As a World Famous Lurker, I normally don't comment. It's easy to be mistaken for a troll when you do comment under a screen name. Mr. Fabulous is a mild self-parody, both in real life and as a screen name. If I start to comment regularly here, I will do so under my own name.; 1/21/18, 6:40 PM
Inga...Allie Oop said...: “J. Farmer annoyed me in the past with (what I considered to be) pedantic responses.”

He’s scared shitless of JFarmer, lol.; 1/21/18, 6:41 PM
Achilles said...: Inga said...

Does he hate nurses?

My wife is a nurse. She doesn't vote for rapists then demand someone be impeached for what they say. She doesn't claim immigrants are better people than US citizens.(she is a naturalized citizen) She also doesn't think it is ok for sitting presidents to spy on their political opponents.

Your problem is you hold positions that are completely amoral and the only consistent intellectual track you hold to is whatever it takes to gain more power over other people.; 1/21/18, 6:42 PM
Robert Cook said...: "I still want to see you and J Farmer go at it, and debate the issues of today in this forum. Everyone loves the playoff games."

In every debate between J. Farmer and anyone else here so far, no one has even been able to lay a hand on Farmer. But then, he is adult and smart, and those who argue against him are not.; 1/21/18, 6:42 PM
Achilles said...: Inga said...

Oh good grief. You have no earthly clue as to why I mentioned Dylann Roof? Just gotta shake one’s head. Truly.

We know why you keep mentioning him. You have no other arguments so you insist we are like some murderer somewhere we don't like and absolutely condemn.

It is why we know there is no middle ground. You can't compromise with someone who thinks it is ok to have the government spy on you and turn the bureaucracy on you. To top it off you want to disarm us so it is easier for the government to persecute us.; 1/21/18, 6:49 PM
Bruce Hayden said...: “As we wrote in February, numerous studies have found that immigrants do not commit crimes at a higher rate than non-immigrants. A recap of the literature on this topic can be found here. A 2013 study published in American Sociological Review confirmed that immigration is strongly associated with less violence in a neighborhood.”

Note something shrinking, at least to me, in that statement. They are stating that “immigrants do not commit crimes at a higher rate than non-immigrants”. Not “illegal immigrants”, but the entire class of legal and illegal immigrants. Think about it - wouldn’t legal imm Grants have more at risk than non immigrants? Most of us here can’t be deported for even murder in broad daylight, but a lot of legal immigrants risk deportation for minor offenses. Maybe not jaywalking, but close. Illegals, on the other hand risk even less - if they are deported, they just sneak back across the border again.

This is the usual left wing slight of hand - we are talking about the dangers of illegal immigration, and they provide a statistic that covers legal and illegal immIgrants. Which is why Lott, et al, looked at just illegal immigration grants.; 1/21/18, 6:49 PM
Inga...Allie Oop said...: “Does he hate nurses?”

“My wife is a nurse.”

That’s very nice. Just be aware that Francisco thinks all nurses only exist to clean bedpans.; 1/21/18, 6:50 PM
Fabi said...: "But then, he is adult and smart, and those who argue against him are not."

You're better than that, Cookie.; 1/21/18, 6:53 PM
mockturtle said...: Robert Cook asserts: In every debate between J. Farmer and anyone else here so far, no one has even been able to lay a hand on Farmer. But then, he is adult and smart, and those who argue against him are not.

He's not all that smart. He thinks Sociology is a science.; 1/21/18, 6:54 PM
Bruce Hayden said...: “The Running With Scissors Psychologist is trying to get me to tell him what sort of degree I have, so obsessive. You have absolutely NO idea what sort of degree I hold, nor is it your business. First he says I’m a CNA, wrong, then he says I’m an ADN, wrong. How assuredly he proclaims to know my degree, WTF? When I tell him he’s wrong, he goes on to guess again. Does he hate nurses? What IS his problem? Can’t he discuss the issue of the blog post? ”

Inga - you are being trolled. Because it is so easy to do. Over time, people figure out your hot buttons, then punch them. Something that you should have learned to deal with, if you had had siblings growing up - because that is what we naturally did to each other. It doesn’t advance the conversation, but neither do your own ad hominem attacks. Think of it this way - they gain enjoyment getting your goat here. Which is why you should work at ignoring them.; 1/21/18, 6:56 PM
Inga...Allie Oop said...: “This is the usual left wing slight of hand - we are talking about the dangers of illegal immigration, and they provide a statistic that covers legal and illegal immIgrants. Which is why Lott, et al, looked at just illegal immigration grants.”

“DREAMers have lower incarceration rates than native-born Americans of the same age and education level.”

https://www.cato.org/publications/immigration-research-policy-brief/dreamer-incarceration-rate; 1/21/18, 6:56 PM
Bruce Hayden said...: “My mother always said that the best way to stop people sneaking across the border is to start shooting them. :-)”

Could make some money there. I am thinking of the Prarie Dog shoots by (I believe) Nucla, CO. Shooting them isnt much of a challenge normally, but it becomes exciting at, say, a mile away.; 1/21/18, 7:01 PM
Inga...Allie Oop said...: “INCARCERATIONS
We estimate that DREAMers had an incarceration rate of 0.98 percent in 2015 compared to a native-born incarceration rate of 1.12 percent, a DACA-ineligible illegal immigrant incarceration rate of 0.38 percent, and a legal immigrant incarceration rate of 0.24 percent (Figure 1). The native-born incarceration rate is 14 percent higher than the DREAMer incarceration rate, while DACA-ineligible illegal immigrants and legal immigrants have the lowest rates of all. Our residual statistical technique estimates that there are about 1.4 million DREAMers in the United States, which increases our confidence in this estimate because it lies right between the DREAMer population estimates made by the Pew Research Center and the Migration Policy Institute.”

https://www.cato.org/publications/immigration-research-policy-brief/dreamer-incarceration-rate; 1/21/18, 7:01 PM
Francisco D said...: Actually Inga,

I think that you are most qualified to clean bedpans.

I have known some very bright nurses. You are not one of them.; 1/21/18, 7:02 PM
Beloved Commenter AReasonableMan said...: Mr. Fabulous, as Robert said, thanks for the kind words. I appreciate some positive feedback every now and then. Although Robert is a thorough going socialist/pacifist none of the other nominally left wing commenters here are really very left wing by the standards that you might find on Reddit much less Daily Kos. It would be good if we could attract a few more solid leftists but that goal seems to be receding rather than advancing at the moment.; 1/21/18, 7:03 PM
Inga...Allie Oop said...: “DEMOGRAPHIC AND SOCIAL CHARACTERISTICS
Incarceration rates by race and ethnicity paint a more nuanced picture (Table 1). DREAMers who are black, Asian, or Hispanic of any race have lower incarceration rates than natives of the same ethnicity, race, education, and age. However, white DREAMers and those who selfidentify as other have higher incarceration rates than their native-born peers. Furthermore, DACA-ineligible illegal immigrants and all other legal immigrants have lower incarceration rates than natives or DREAMers in every racial and ethnic category.”

https://www.cato.org/publications/immigration-research-policy-brief/dreamer-incarceration-rate; 1/21/18, 7:03 PM
Humperdink said...: “Inga asked: "Can’t he discuss the issue of the blog post?"

Hump responded: "You're the one who brought up Dylan Roof.”

Inga responded again: "Oh good grief. You have no earthly clue as to why I mentioned Dylann Roof? Just gotta shake one’s head. Truly."

Oh I know exactly why you mentioned Dylan Roof. It is completely irrelevant to the discussion at hand, but you thought it would be cute to tie him to the "all right wingers are murderous thugs, worse than illegals". Look squirrel. Which is also why I posted about the nurse who murdered numerous people.

Your post was ludicrous. It remains ludicrous and you remain in denial regarding illegal immigration violence.; 1/21/18, 7:08 PM
Original Mike said...: Hey Dickie! - Two can play at this game.; 1/21/18, 7:08 PM
Inga...Allie Oop said...: Mr Fabulous,

I won’t bother thanking you. By you interacting with Francisco D as if he were a normal commenter, you do him no favors. His behavior is pathological, don't normalize his behavior, he will only take it as a signal that it’s acceptable.; 1/21/18, 7:09 PM
Gahrie said...: I don’t see how you can use productive and the U.S. Congress in the same sentence.

Isn't Congress the opposite of progress?; 1/21/18, 7:11 PM
Inga...Allie Oop said...: “The incarceration rate for DREAMers and natives varies tremendously by sex (Table 2). The native-born female incarceration rate is an astounding 2.86 times as great as the female DREAMer incarceration rate, which is below one-tenth of one percent. The native-born male incarceration rate is 12.5 percent higher than the DREAMer rate. Like the previous tables and graphs, the incarceration rates of DACA-ineligible illegal immigrants and of all other legal immigrants is even lower when compared to natives, especially for women. The incarceration rate by education shows that natives are more likely to be incarcerated than DREAMers except for those with only a college education-an odd anomaly (Table 3). Meanwhile, the incarceration rates for DACA-ineligible illegal immigrants and all other legal immigrants are generally below those of natives and DREAMers.”

https://www.cato.org/publications/immigration-research-policy-brief/dreamer-incarceration-rate; 1/21/18, 7:11 PM
Inga...Allie Oop said...: “CONCLUSION
DREAMers are less likely to be incarcerated than nativeborn Americans with the same age and education. DACAineligible illegal immigrants and all other legal immigrants are even less likely to be incarcerated. The incarceration rate for DREAMers is closer to that of native-born Americans because they came here at a younger age and are more assimilated into American culture.19 This brief provides demographic information to better inform the public policy debate over DACA and a broader legalization. In fact, the even-lower incarceration rate for DACA-ineligible illegal immigrants suggests that Congress should expand the parameters of any future legalization because the beneficiaries are less crime prone than either DREAMers or natives. Despite individual news stories and anecdotes to the contrary, DREAMers are less crime prone than native-born Americans.”

https://www.cato.org/publications/immigration-research-policy-brief/dreamer-incarceration-rate; 1/21/18, 7:13 PM
Pookie Number 2 said...: Speaking as both an immigrant and a statistician (more or less)...

If we assume native-born Americans have a (making this number up completely) 1% chance of killing someone, and immigrants have a (similarly pulled out of my whatever) 0.5% chance of killing someone, we still end up with more murdered Americans as a result of immigration.

(Obviously not the only legitimate consideration, but the per capita criminality comparison misses that point entirely.); 1/21/18, 7:14 PM
Francisco D said...: Inga,

I used to date an ADN. She has an associates degree. That takes an IQ of about 90.

You have really no reason to spout off on anything. You are poorly educated and stupid.

However, you have the power of emotion.

Long live the Pussy Hats!; 1/21/18, 7:16 PM
Inga...Allie Oop said...: “I used to date an ADN. She has an associates degree.”

Is she buried in your basement?; 1/21/18, 7:21 PM
Dad29 said...: Speaker Ryan says the ad is not productive.

Shall we talk about how Speaker Ryan de-funded Planned Parenthood in the current CR?; 1/21/18, 7:22 PM
Dad29 said...: ...there was a shortage and there was no qualified US worker (which, by the way, the employers currently game around)....

Same BS that Intel, MS, Apple, and Google pull on importing foreign programmers, by the way. Slightly more expensive lawyers.; 1/21/18, 7:30 PM
Paul Snively said...: Harsh words != untrue words.

It's not complicated: despite the prosecutors bungling the case by overreaching for a first-degree murder verdict, the facts in the Kate Steinle case, at a minimum, are that a repeat offender with respect to both US immigration law and other laws 1) was again in the country illegally, 2) came into illegal possession of a firearm, 3) fired (wittingly or unwittingly) that firearm, which 4) directly led to the death of Kate Steinle. Ricochet or no ricochet, intention or no intention, the simple fact is that if the accused had been deported and stayed that way, and if San Francisco wasn't an insane "sanctuary city," Kate Steinle would still be alive.

More abstractly, I'm at a loss to understand in what sense America is the only nation in world history to be based on a set of ideas rather than ethnicity if 1) we don't require immigrants to learn and conform to that set of ideas and 2) literally all you have to do is be lucky enough to be born here to be a citizen.; 1/21/18, 7:31 PM
Bruce Hayden said...: “DREAMers have lower incarceration rates than native-born Americans of the same age and education level.”

Which makes sense, since felonies or multiple misdemeanors would make the illegal alien ineligible for DACA/Dreamer status. And, incarceration means having been convicted of such. Besides, there is the educational requirement of being in school, or having a HS diploma (or, apparently, a GED - which I don’t count as equivalent, but understand the logic).higher the education (and higher the IQ), the lower the rate of being a felon, or being incarcerated (the theory being that criminal activity, for the most part, involves immediate, and not deferred gratification, and those best capable of the latter are most likely to forgoe the low long term rewards of criminal behavior). Also note that incarceration rate is a fairly weak proxy for criminality here, where non immigrants cannot be deported for crimes, while noncitizen immigrants can be.

Of course, Trump isn’t talking about Dreamers, but illegals in general. He has shown himself willing to give Dreamers a more secure status here, as long as he gets his wall, and an end to chain migration.; 1/21/18, 7:31 PM
Humperdink said...: “I used to date an ADN. She has an associates degree.”

Inga responded: "Is she buried in your basement"

Why it's fruitless to argue with liberals.; 1/21/18, 7:31 PM
Beloved Commenter AReasonableMan said...: Come on, that was pretty funny.; 1/21/18, 7:36 PM
Francisco D said...: Humperdink,

You are right. It is fruitless to argue with contemporary liberals.

They seem to be childish and deranged and proud of it.; 1/21/18, 7:40 PM
Francisco D said...: ARM,

Why is that funny?; 1/21/18, 7:41 PM
Inga...Allie Oop said...: “Come on, that was pretty funny.”

I thought so too, lol. 🔪🔨⛏⚰️; 1/21/18, 7:42 PM
Inga...Allie Oop said...: ““Every time we have a proposal it is only yanked back by staff members. As long as Stephen Miller is in charge of negotiating immigration, we’re going nowhere,” Graham told reporters as he headed into a closed-door negotiation with a bipartisan group of senators.

He added that “the White House staff, I think, is making it very difficult.””

Has Stephen Miller taken over Steve Bannon’s role as Trumps brain? I wonder if Stephen Miller won’t be the next one to go.; 1/21/18, 7:52 PM
Mr. Fabulous said...: (World Famous Lurker says....)

Achilles, if you're trying to make it onto my righty troll list, forget it. :)

We pretty much agree 93% politically and militarily, but I'd still put you on the list if you were a troll. You seem to consistently comment with integrity.

You are entirely correct about the gaming boards, of course. Which is why I am never there. (Favorite single game: Quake 3 Arena - Over 60k local net frags. Last big effort: Fallout 4 - Level 183 in Survival mode. Just deleted it from my local system. Nothing left to do. Favorite all time game series: Far Cry - hands down.); 1/21/18, 7:57 PM
Francisco D said...: Cutting and pasting once again takes the place of reasoned argument.

I would like to have an intelligent discussion, but that may take something more than the usual suspects are able to offer.; 1/21/18, 7:57 PM
Humperdink said...: Think illegals commit violent crime? Lookee over there - Dylan Roof, right winger.

Why it's fruitless to argue with liberals.; 1/21/18, 8:06 PM
Unknown said...: James K said:
As I recall, it was one of Dukakis's Dem opponents that first brought up Willie Horton

Not just any Dukakis opponent, but one Albert Arnold Gore Jr.; 1/21/18, 8:09 PM
narciso said...: But it wee the reporting of the Lawrence eagle tribune, that filled in the gaps, the issue was not willie Horton himself was the laxity of the Massachusetts furlue system that gave him 10 opportunities.; 1/21/18, 8:23 PM
narciso said...: They did some 200 stories but we can only get oblique references like here:
Http://kenbraiterman.com/did-a-pulitzer-prize-help-kill-one-of-its-winners

Disusing the reporter who opened up the issue,; 1/21/18, 8:32 PM
Unknown said...: Trump's at Troll Level: NUCLEAR.

Awesome.; 1/21/18, 8:33 PM
cubanbob said...: mockturtle said...
Robert Cook asserts: In every debate between J. Farmer and anyone else here so far, no one has even been able to lay a hand on Farmer. But then, he is adult and smart, and those who argue against him are not.

He's not all that smart. He thinks Sociology is a science."

Check his commentary any time Jews are involved.; 1/21/18, 8:36 PM
trumpintroublenow said...: Trump's administration has the sole responsibility to locate and deport the millions of illegals already in the country. Perhaps he is a little complicit as well?; 1/21/18, 8:39 PM
trumpintroublenow said...: On a more serious note, congrats to the Eagles for destroying the Vikings in the conference championship game.; 1/21/18, 8:41 PM
SH said...: Writing from So California; in the comments I've read so far no one has mentioned the other obvious reason democrats support open borders. They're importing new democrats. Or at least people that vote 70/30 for them. So; they couldn't convince the old population base to give them one party rule with antifa around to keep people in line on the side (but protected from legal consequences). So; they decided to replace the population with one more in their favor. Now; anyone saying hyperbole... like I said; I'm in southern California. The population demographic has been largely changed over the last 20 years. What's also bad is assimilation has broken down too. Too many foreign born people and too many leftists throwing wrenches in the gears. When I was in HS 30 years ago we had a very diverse class but everyone was American (re: you didn't notice hispanics or Vietnamese or other Asians as different than anyone else due to their assimilation)... not so anymore. Unless you want to live in a one party far left country with a vastly different understanding of individual liberty (re: you don't have it / bad ideas are hate speech and you deserve to be beaten in the streets for them) you might want to get on board with stopping the democrats importing people. Before it is too late to stop it and keep things the way they are now (democrats have to convince a certain number of undecideds they are right vs. always winning no matter what they do... like in California).; 1/21/18, 8:42 PM
cubanbob said...: Has Stephen Miller taken over Steve Bannon’s role as Trumps brain? I wonder if Stephen Miller won’t be the next one to go."

Inga this is the type of thought free comment that makes you look silly. I can understand that you can't stand Trump's persona and his policies. But to state that a man who made himself a billionaire and ran a multi billion business empire comprised of multiple business across various industries and who also has a degree from Wharton requires someone to be his brain just makes you look silly, emotional and brainless. You're better than that so please stop. Argue the merits from your perspective and skip the nonsense.; 1/21/18, 8:50 PM
mockturtle said...: Of course, SH. This has actually been discussed here often but always bears repeating. Someone suggested yesterday that they should let the dreamers stay but forbid them to vote. The Dems would lose interest.

Being in CA, you know that being a non-citizen--or even an illegal alien--is no obstacle to voting.; 1/21/18, 8:53 PM
mockturtle said...: On a more serious note, congrats to the Eagles for destroying the Vikings in the conference championship game.

Let us hope they can do likewise to the Patriots in two weeks.; 1/21/18, 8:56 PM
Francisco D said...: It's a mistake to argue with idiots.

They drag you down to their level and try to defeat you with their stupidity.

Hola Inga.; 1/21/18, 9:01 PM
mockturtle said...: Time re re-quote Swift: It is useless to attempt to reason a man out of a thing he was never reasoned into.; 1/21/18, 9:02 PM
narciso said...: No, they would mount a full bore campaign to demand that they do get the; 1/21/18, 9:05 PM
richard mcenroe said...: "Democrats who stand in our way will be complicit in every murder committed by illegal immigrants."

Yes. And?; 1/21/18, 9:16 PM
Achilles said...: The best part of this discussion is that Trump won it by framing the discussion. The left has nothing to say and are forced from the start into obvious dishonesty.; 1/21/18, 9:18 PM