December 16, 2017

"This isn't an argument about policy, it's just a dumb attempt to personalize the issue."

Says Glenn Reynolds:
Brookings fellow rips Trump: I entered through lottery system. It’s like the people who defend affirmative action by saying “I’m a product of affirmative action!” as if that should silence any critics.
I loathe these personalized arguments. They are not consistent with progressive politics, because they amplify the voice of the privileged and treat those who have been excluded as if they don't exist. So there's a de-personalization going on that you're encouraged not to notice. If a lottery were not the system, there would be some other system. Who are the people who would have got in under that system? They're not here to clamor for your attention to their personal story.

There's a second form of silencing that goes on: Those who benefitted from the existing system are supposed to support it. This particular "Brookings fellow" is saying it helped me, so I'm for it and you should be too. But what about people who got the benefit but don't like the policy? They'll be told they need to shut up, because they took the advantage. I'm thinking of Clarence Thomas, who people assume got the advantage of affirmative action and who gets called a hypocrite for opposing it.

110 comments:

AllenS said...

Affirmative action means that someone else will be discriminated against.

Bad Lieutenant said...

So, guy living in feces grabs the brass ring, comes to Paradise, first I ever hear of him he's attacking the President. Yeah, we want more of that. You betcha!

David Begley said...

The Left slandered Thomas as a dunce. He was Alpha Sigma Nu at Holy Cross. That is a merit selection of the highest order. But I imagine that was discounted because Holy Cross is a Jesuit school.

Anonymous said...

Prof:

I weep for American poor - like those poor who live in housing - who have no real champion. The don’t even know what there are entitled to from the govt. But many privilege like the refugee from CA who writes about Vietnam or rich liberals etc get through connection admissions to ivy schools and the hit the jackpot. The press focus on this multiple winners - one win leads to many. The poor no one focuses. We must focus on those who are left behind. This is what will help in 2020.

Michael K said...

I know a German plumber who waited years to get a lottery distributed immigration visa.

He and his wife, a licensed midwife in Germany, had 60,000 Euros in savings and settled in Tucson where he has a successful plumbing business. He said that there was no chance he could ever have his own business in Germany.

The lottery is OK as long as there are valid restrictions on who gets to have a number.

Chain migration has wrecked Britain.

Luke Lea said...

Just one more "thoughtstopper," a new I word recently came upon, used to designate rhetorical devices designed to shut down debate by flummoxing the opposition. Other examples: white privilege, "that's not who we are." Maybe "diversity is strength?" It would be nice to see a longer list of them.

William said...

If someone behaves badly and you point that out, then you are guilty of stereotyping. If you note the successes, then you're fair minded and a true American. Since mass murderers are relatively rare, you will always be able to point out more success than failure in these programs, but that doesn't make them successful.

Dust Bunny Queen said...

Arguing on anecdotal personal experiences is a common failing.

We are all at sometime guilty of presenting anecdotes in discussions to bolster a point. Because YOU (generic 'you' not aimed at anyone here) or I (yes me) have experienced something, it doesn't make those experiences a universal truth.

Personal experiences are individual and unique....however, if all of our experiences are totaled and evaluated, we might find some truth. Unfortunately, as the movie line goes..."You can't handle the truth!"

Arguing based on anecdotal evidence is not just a logical fallacy... is actually dangerous. The Kael type of arguing based on your own limited world view.

1. No one I know voted for Trump so it must be illegitimate that he is President..
2. Since based on my experience Trump is illegitimate, it is a good thing to revolt against him
3. Those who voted for Trump are obviously evil, fascists and the Anti-Fa should kill them all.

OR...."I only know really great Muslims. My neighbors are Muslim and they are nice to me. Therefore all Muslims are nice and anyone who says otherwise is lying."

AND So on and so on.....Dangerous.

And so on.

David Begley said...

My youngest daughter earned an academic scholarship to Santa Clara but was rejected by Yale. She would have been at Yale when those undergrads were snapping their fingers and having a meltdown confrontation with a professor/dorm supervisor, Very happy she went to Santa Clara.

I recount this personal story to emphasize the failure and corruption of the current liberal elite infrastructure. Hope it helps.

Ignorance is Bliss said...

They are not consistent with progressive politics, because they amplify the voice of the privileged and treat those who have been excluded as if they don't exist.

That is the basis of progressive politics. It is only progressive rhetoric with which it is inconsistent.

Breezy said...

We can’t fix entitlements because of this personalization strategy....

mockturtle said...

Affirmative Action is one of the most racist policies in modern history. Any racial minority hired, promoted or accepted into a university will automatically be assumed to be a product of A.A. Another fine example of the Democratic intent to promote interracial friction and keep 'people of color' on the plantation to assure their votes.
And the Democratic scorn toward conservative blacks who have excelled on their own merits is palpable.

William said...

Immigrants doing the jobs that Americans won't do. Like getting a spot at Harvard and earning a 6 figure income at a think tank. That would surely be beneath any self-respecting American.

Unknown said...

Whom, not who. Nobody gets that right these days. Sad!

fivewheels said...

"Clarence Thomas, who people assume got the advantage of affirmative action and who gets called a hypocrite for opposing it."

Yeah. But for some reason, those same people never think that white people were morally obligated to support and maintain Jim Crow because they benefited from it.

Nyamujal said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Nyamujal said...

This article has some good background on the DV lottery system:
https://qz.com/803831/how-a-unique-lottery-is-keeping-the-dream-of-american-diversity-alive-50000-green-cards-at-a-time/
"
The lottery was introduced as part of the Immigration Act of 1990, but was modeled after two smaller programs that ran in 1987 and 1989, giving out 50,000 and 20,000 visas respectively. The first of those two lotteries, labeled an “experiment in non-sponsored immigration,” was devised by Brian J. Donnelly, a Democratic congressman from Massachusetts—not as a means to diversify the US, but as a tool to legalize members of his constituency: the large illegal Irish community living in Boston.

Technically, the 1987 program counted 36 countries deemed “adversely affected” by the immigration system at the time. So anyone from those 36 countries could put in their lot. But in practice, the experiment overwhelmingly favored the Irish, who were mobilized to submit their applications early, and won 40% of the available visas, because they were awarded on a first-come, first-served basis.
"

Bad Lieutenant said...


Nyamujal said...
"Chain migration has wrecked Britain."

The Scots-Irish have wrecked large parts of Appalachia and the Midwest.

12/16/17, 9:55 AM


So, how's things in whatever toilet your people fled?

Michael K said...

"The Scots-Irish have wrecked large parts of Appalachia and the Midwest."

I missed the locations of the Rotherhams in Appalachia and the Midwest. Maybe Dearborn Michigan ?

Angel-Dyne said...

Nyamujal to DrK:

"Chain migration has wrecked Britain."

The Scots-Irish have wrecked large parts of Appalachia and the Midwest.


So you agree with Dr. K that chain migration has wrecked Britain?

(The argument of the form "A wrecked B therefore X must allow itself to be wrecked by Y" is my favorite all-time "killer" -- i.e. moronic -- lefty argument.)

The lottery was introduced as part of the Immigration Act of 1990, but was modeled after two smaller programs that ran in 1987 and 1989, giving out 50,000 and 20,000 visas respectively...

...in practice, the experiment overwhelmingly favored the Irish


See what I mean? "We have to keep doing something stupid because...look, a white squirrel!"

tcrosse said...

The Scots-Irish have wrecked large parts of Appalachia and the Midwest.

The Scots-Irish have wrecked large parts of Northern Ireland.

MayBee said...

And what would we do without the Brookings Institute?

EDH said...

I view the personalize argument as a "love me or else" kind of challenge.

Like those battery on the should Robert Conrad ads from the late 1970s...

"Come on, I dare ya'."

Paco Wové said...

Got to get a bit faster with the delete, Nyam.

cubanbob said...

I might be wrong but it appears to me that Clarence Thomas did not benefit from AA. Like the Jew quotas in the 1920's to cap the number of Jews admitted to top schools Thomas had to be extra good to get in rather than be admitted to fill a quota.

As an immigrant married to an immigrant I'm beyond glad to be here. However as a citizen I understand the country has to act on its overall best interest which includes deciding who to admit as immigrants.

William said...

The Scots Irish have wrecked large parts of their own livers.

Nyamujal said...

@Bad L4ieutenant
"So, how's things in whatever toilet your people fled? "

Not bad. I might make a trip down there next summer.

@Paco Wove

"Got to get a bit faster with the delete, Nyam."

Seems like it wouldn't really have mattered.

William Chadwick said...

Besides Clarence Thomas, there's also African-American economist, author and scholar Thomas Sowell. He's kind of a minority-within-a-minority for being pro-freedom instead of statist. He's said that he's been told he should support Affirmative Action because he's benefited from it--only his first published, breakthrough papers and articles were submitted without anyone he submitted them to knowing what race he was.

Nyamujal said...

I'd be all for getting rid of the DV lottery and giving those slots to people who want to be here. People with jobs and advanced degrees. I suspect most of those applicants will be Asians.

Hagar said...

Britain does not have "chain migration." What they do have is an "open borders policy" for all arriving from a former British Commonwealth country.

MayBee said...

Hagar-
But even then, Britain did not extend that policy to the Hong Kong people in the years surrounding the turnover.

Hagar said...

On immigation, the first thing the United States have to do is to agree thatwe shall have a polcy - and enforce it. Then we can go to argue about what should be in that policy.

Hagar said...

Hong Kong was a leased colony. Legally, it was always Chinese.

wwww said...


Non personalized notation:

There's a non-zero chance Amazon will locate HQ2 w/ it's 40,000 jobs outside the US, in part, because of concerns related to visas and travel of non-American employees.

Unknown said...

Clarence Thomas pointed out that AA may have gotten him into Harvard, but it didn't keep him there.

Michael K said...

"Britain does not have "chain migration."

It may not be a formal policy but that has resulted in entire Pakistani villages reconstituting in York and other northern Britain areas.

WE had some form of chain migration from Viet Nam in the 70s as Vietnamese villagers found each other and communities were restored.

I met Vietnamese doctors who had found all their patients who had fled and settled in Orange County CA,

The difference is that they all worked hard and, by the second generation, were doing very well without welfare.

The Pakistanis are largely on The Dole.

Matthew Sablan said...

"And the Democratic scorn toward conservative blacks who have excelled on their own merits is palpable."

-- If Clarence Thomas were liberal and appointed by Clinton, would we ever heard of Anita Hill?

Michael K said...

Britain did not extend that policy to the Hong Kong people in the years surrounding the turnover.

Many that I know of went to Canada. I knew people whose families in Hong Kong kept first class airline tickets as emergency resources. They did not make reservations but cashed in the tickets and bought new ones as they expired, just in case.

cubanbob said...

Nyamujal said...
I'd be all for getting rid of the DV lottery and giving those slots to people who want to be here. People with jobs and advanced degrees. I suspect most of those applicants will be Asians."

Presumably everyone who recieved a DV visa wanted to come here, why else apply? However limiting those visas to people who will be an asset outside of the quotas to the country would be a better idea. Let in as many millionaires as possible in along with people with advance degrees and useful skills. In other words people who will never be a ward of the state and are likely to add to the country instead of detract.

Humperdink said...

No matter the issue the R's pursue, whether it be tax cuts, DACA, chain migration, you can bet Chuck Schemer (D-Scumbag) will parade out some minority single mom with 4 kids to support his position. Every time.

JaimeRoberto said...

I have friends who came here via the lottery, and they think it is a stupid way to manage an immigration system.

Sebastian said...

"I loathe these personalized arguments. They are not consistent with progressive politics, because they amplify the voice of the privileged and treat those who have been excluded as if they don't exist."

Why inconsistent? The whole point of progressive politics was "to amplify the voice of the privileged." Experts who know better would lord it over us. Through the administrative process we'd achieve mastery. Etc. Etc.

More recent prog politics excluded lots of people--in immigration, excluding qualified pro-American candidates in favor of distant family from Asia or Latin America. Propose a universalistic, non-favoritist point-based system, and hear progs wail.

"They're not here to clamor for your attention to their personal story." You are right, of course. But that doesn't stop any prog from making any bad-faith argument. See the fervor on behalf of the "Dreamers."

Prog land is not an Althousian world.

Bad Lieutenant said...

Nyamujal said...
@Bad L4ieutenant
"So, how's things in whatever toilet your people fled? "

Not bad. I might make a trip down there next summer.


Stay a while... Stay forever!


Nyamujal said...
I'd be all for getting rid of the DV lottery and giving those slots to people who want to be here. People with jobs and advanced degrees. I suspect most of those applicants will be Asians.

I suspect an awful lot will be Europeans, and very few from LatAm. If English fluency were a factor, for instance, you'd get a bunch of Anglosphere types, and the cream of the rest. Goodish number of Indians, but evidently they all want to repatriate, eventually. More people could come here if only they would leave.

They could also be filtered for anti-American sentiments, like yours.

Having jobs is mostly pointless. If you had a job you'd be less likely to emigrate. The point would be to be employABLE.

Larvell said...

Wait, you're saying we're NOT supposed to make healthcare policy based on Jimmy Kimmel's experience?

Big Mike said...

The fact that an allegedly intelligent individual would make that argument is not merely suggestive that his intelligence is overrated, but that the US would be somewhat improved if he were deported back to wherever he came from.

William Chadwick said...

Sebastian describes "progressive" politics as "Experts who know better would lord it over the rest of us." Sowell nicely encapsulates that worldview as "the Vision of the Annointed."

Nyamujal said...

@Bad Lieutenant
"Stay a while... Stay forever! "

You really have a stick up your arse don't you. You wouldn't really dare say this shit if we were to meet face-face. Because like all the racist garbage I've come across, I suspect you're a fucking coward.

"They could also be filtered for anti-American sentiments, like yours. "

Any view that doesn't comport with yours is anti-American. I see how that works.

Kevin said...

I loathe these personalized arguments. They are not consistent with progressive politics, because they amplify the voice of the privileged and treat those who have been excluded as if they don't exist.

And when the people come into the country through a lottery system become terrorists, we are not supposed to use this to impugn the system at all.

Trump: Suspect Entered U.S. in ‘Diversity Visa Lottery,’ Blames Schumer

Howard said...

OK. Now, in this one instance, a personal anecdote is wrong according to InstaPussy. His whole blog is based on random personal anecdotes that trigger his right-wing conservative latent racist homophobic customers into buying "tactical" shit off his Amazon corn-hole.

walter said...

Michael K said...I know a German plumber who waited years to get a lottery distributed immigration visa.
--
One of the best, easiest to convey arguments against illegal immigration..if they would just employ it.
It even has the feelzy "fair" component.

walter said...

"I loathe these personalized arguments. They are not consistent with progressive politics"
Really? Someone alert the "progressives".

walter said...

One example that comes to mind is Sandra Fluke regaling congress with her sex woes..

Jupiter said...

Nyamujal said...
"I'd be all for getting rid of the DV lottery and giving those slots to people who want to be here. People with jobs and advanced degrees. I suspect most of those applicants will be Asians."

Muj, I inherited my US citizenship from my parents. I did not inherit citizenship in any other country, so it is the only citizenship I have. I believe it is a thing of considerable value. If I could sell it, I could probably get a million dollars for it, maybe more. You would like to see it divided among people who inherited citizenship in other countries, but would prefer to have mine. This does not surprise me. Scratch a Commie, find a thief.

I think a better policy would be to sell your citizenship, for a million dollars, and deport you to the country of the person who bought it. I'm sure you see the many advantages that policy would have. One more rich person, one less Commie. What's not to like?

William said...

I read somewhere hat there are thirty million refugees worldwide. If we're going to accept refugees, how about accepting them from countries where they didn't grow up burning American flags.

Drago said...

Howard: "His whole blog is based on random personal anecdotes that trigger his right-wing conservative latent racist homophobic customers into buying "tactical" shit off his Amazon corn-hole."

Does "latent" pertain only to racism, or also to homophobia in this screed? Aren't all customers "latent" in-between purchases?

And just for the record, try as you might, you can never out "Toothless" Toothless.

Qwerty Smith said...

LBJ benefited from white supremacy. Did that mean he was wrong to promote the Voting Rights Act? If Clarence Thomas is duty-bound to protect affirmative action, then LBJ was duty-bound to protect Jim Crow.

Qwerty Smith said...

Illegal aliens take low-skill jobs and encourage hostility to immigration, thereby reducing domestic wages and the inflow of legal aliens. Likewise, immigration lottery-winners take spots that might have gone to others. Does mean the descendants of illegal aliens and lottery-winners owe reparations to their ancestors' victims? Or, at least, shouldn't progressives demand such reparations?

rcocean said...

Deciding any public policy by a "Lottery" is dumb - no matter what is it is.

As for Policy by personal anecdote. Its what dumb people do, when there is no other argument.

I'm sure you can find some German or Russian somewhere who innocently benefited by the Gulag or the Nazi Concentration camps. So, I guess - if you believe in public policy by anecdote - that makes Nazism and Stalinism OK.

rcocean said...

I'm sure some German Farmer made a lot of money selling his farm land to make way for Dachau.

So, hey lets build more concentration camps - it'll help German Farmers!

gadfly said...

If we look to find fault here, lets start with the adolescent-in-charge, Donnie Trump:

“They have a lottery—you pick people. You think the country is giving us their best people? No. What kind of a system is that? They come in by a lottery. They give us their worst people, they put ’em in a bin. But in his hand, when he’s picking ’em, is really the worst of the worst. Congratulations, you’re going to the United States,” Trump said.

Actually,the Diversity Visa Lottery program is merit-based but Trump would rather tell another lie before doing some fact-checking. The 50,000 immigrants allowed into the country each year must have a high school education or two years of work experience in a job that requires at least two years of training.

Jupiter said...

"I loathe these personalized arguments. They are not consistent with progressive politics, because they amplify the voice of the privileged and treat those who have been excluded as if they don't exist."

Every policy argument is ultimately personal. Why would I prefer any policy, if not because I expect to benefit by it "personally"? It is true that we may consider that we are part of a society, and benefit from the overall well-being of that society. But this consideration hardly extends to the entire population of the World, or even to every member of our own society.

The particular deceit of the Leftist is to extend it in precisely that way, and to argue that it is selfish to consider only our own wants and interests. Instead, we should unselfishly devote ourselves to the selfish wants and desires of some other person. The Leftist has helpfully selected such a person for us, and is happy to show us, not that he is deserving, but that he is in want. "People are starving! Get in the pot!", says the Leftist. I never fail to be amazed at the success of this transparent trick. Splash! There goes another one!

Nyamujal said...

@Jupiter

"Muj"? What's that supposed to mean?

"You would like to see it divided among people who inherited citizenship in other countries, but would prefer to have mine. This does not surprise me. Scratch a Commie, find a thief."

Your concept of what makes a citizen is surprisingly narrow and stupid. I moved here because I love this country and what it stands for (Like your ancestors, unless they were involuntarily brought here on a slave ship). I have been nothing but a law abiding, productive member of this society. However, over the years, I've had several cunts like @Bad Lieutenant attempt to tell me where I belong the moment they realize I wasn't born here. You know what, fuck them and fuck their imagined Trumpian Valhalla where non-white people know their place and any dissent that qualifies as unpatriotic in his eyes is crushed. And if you think like that, you can go fuck yourself too.

William Chadwick said...

Wow, Howard really can spew the rhetoric and jargon. It's like he sleeps with copies of the Daily Worker or some old Sixties radical flyers under his pillow and absorbs the party line and its jargon while he sleeps.

"His whole blog is based on random personal anecdotes that trigger his right-wing conservative latent racist homophobic customers into buying "tactical" shit off his Amazon corn-hole." Evidence? Examples?

walter said...

Nyamujal said..."Muj"? What's that supposed to mean?
--
Short for Nyamujal, methinks.
But I suppose it could be some racist Trumpian code word...

Howard said...

Muj is clearly a passive-aggressive (e.g. cowardly) racist slur as it sounds like it's short for mujaheddin. Not even a dog whistle. Thanks for reinforcing Jupiter's plausible deniability, Walter. When you guys consistently apologize for christian fascists, transhomophobes, child molesters and racists, we don't have to sleep with the daily worker, etc. to obtain statistically significant evidence of the self-identifying cuckservative/chickencuck meme.

Evidence? Do your own homework, William. I suspect you love it and think nothing wrong when Glenn "tenured state worker" Reynolds talks about wanting to buy bigger and bigger guns.

walter said...

Decaf, Howard.
Decaf.

William Chadwick said...

"Evidence? Do your own homework, William. I suspect you love it and think nothing wrong when Glenn "tenured state worker" Reynolds talks about wanting to buy bigger and bigger guns."

Oh, okay. You got nothing but rhetoric. As I suspected. Thanks for confirming, comrade.

Bad Lieutenant said...


Nyamujal said...
@Bad Lieutenant
"Stay a while... Stay forever! "

You really have a stick up your arse don't you.

I don't like you, that's true. There are plenty of American citizens with rancid views like yours, but they were born here so I have to put up with them. I don't see why we need to import more. You're a nasty fellow and show no upside. You have never posted here as other than a nasty prick who, as you say below, would never talk like that f2f.

However sticks and asses is all you.

You wouldn't really dare say this shit if we were to meet face-face. Because like all the racist garbage I've come across, I suspect you're a fucking coward.

Ooh, again with the Me Beat You Up. There's a line. First off, as a foreigner, you're probably smaller and weaker than I am, so why would I be afraid? Bringing friends? Bringing heat? Got rabies? Does your country have a martial arts tradition (thuggee, dacoity and suttee don't count)?

I probably would be nicer in person, but that's the nature of Internet commenting. Probably you are not such a bozo in person, or hide it better.

As for racist, I don't even know what race you are, though I suppose you're a Third Worlder. Xenophobic, anti-foreigners? Not at all. If buwaya was a woman I'd marry him.


"They could also be filtered for anti-American sentiments, like yours. "

Any view that doesn't comport with yours is anti-American. I see how that works.

Sure, tell yourself that if it helps you sleep at night. I repeat: you're here because here is better than where you were. Have a little fucking courtesy.

Drago said...

Gadfly: "The 50,000 immigrants allowed into the country each year must have a high school education or two years of work experience in a job that requires at least two years of training."

Lol

Nope. They only have to say they have the training and I hate to break it to you but a "high school" education in Yemen or somewhere like it is not exactly "rigorous".

What a maroon you are.

Drago said...

Once again, gadfly, the Poor Man's LLR Chuck, comes up short.

n.n said...

Before or after selective-child and recycled-child? Denial of human evolution, civil and human rights. Denial of due process and cruel and unusual punishments.

It is this the product of liberal diversity (i.e. racism, sexism)? Institutional rackets that deny individual dignity.

Perhaps political congruence or "=", which selectively excludes unfavorable or unprofitable classes?

Or the victims of social justice adventures and modern-day trails of tears.

The progressive violation of civil and human rights for political, social, and economic progress, and narcissistic indulgence (e.g. female chauvinism).

Then there is labor and environmental arbitrage to exploit workers and shift environmental disruption.

And immigration reform, including refugee crises to enable, with the press's collusion, "clean" wars, and redistributive population, including: anti-nativism, welfare profits, and gerrymandered districts.

The Global Socialists have picked up and progressed from where the National Socialists left off.

Jupiter said...

Nyamujal said...

"You know what, fuck them and fuck their imagined Trumpian Valhalla where non-white people know their place and any dissent that qualifies as unpatriotic in his eyes is crushed. And if you think like that, you can go fuck yourself too."

Well, the mask comes off fairly easily, doesn't it, Muj? You love my country. The only thing you can find wrong with it is me and my fellow white people, who had the poor taste to be born here. And you have a plan to fix that problem, good little citizen that you are. Welcome to the Melting Pot, Muj. Hope it doesn't get too hot for you.

Jupiter said...

Nyamujal said...

"You know what, fuck them and fuck their imagined Trumpian Valhalla where non-white people know their place and any dissent that qualifies as unpatriotic in his eyes is crushed. And if you think like that, you can go fuck yourself too."

At least he didn't end it with "Whore."

Jupiter said...

Howard said...
"Muj is clearly a passive-aggressive (e.g. cowardly) racist slur as it sounds like it's short for mujaheddin."

Mujaheddin is not a race, Howard. I think the hate-word you are looking for is "Islamophobic". You should find it on page 143 if you're using the Standard Dictionary of Hate, Third Revised Edition.

Michael K said...

I suspect you love it and think nothing wrong when Glenn "tenured state worker" Reynolds talks about wanting to buy bigger and bigger guns.

Howard, I just got home from the gun show. You and Inga should have been there,

Boy, the guns were great. One guy had a Spencer repeating rifle that was probably used in the Civil War..

Kind of like the one you lefties think you are going to win.

Lots of knives, too. I bought one.

Paco Wové said...

Nya · muj · al

You're welcome.

Phil 3:14 said...

Well this has been a warm and fuzzy discussion.

Nyamujal said...

@Bad l
"Ooh, again with the Me Beat You Up. There's a line. First off, as a foreigner, you're probably smaller and weaker than I am, so why would I be afraid?"

Care to find out for yourself boy?

Nyamujal said...

Not at all. If buwaya was a woman I'd marry him.

I had you pegged for a lonely miserable guy who'd be single if it weren't for a mail order bride.
BTW, my wife if American, so I guess I'm be here for a while. And I definitely look forward to voting guys who think like you out of office when I'm eligible to. Which is pretty soon.

Nyamujal said...

@ Jupiter
"You love my country. The only thing you can find wrong with it is me and my fellow white people, who had the poor taste to be born here."

My wife is white, so that makes perfect sense.

Jupiter said...

Nyamujal boasted....

"And I definitely look forward to voting guys who think like you out of office when I'm eligible to. Which is pretty soon."

Muj, if you're arguing for increased immigration, you aren't making a real persuasive case.

Nyamujal said...

"Not at all. If buwaya was a woman I'd marry him."

Actually, I'd probably marry him too. He's probably the only intelligent voice in the comments section here.

Rick said...

They are not consistent with progressive politics, because they amplify the voice of the privileged and treat those who have been excluded as if they don't exist.

This conclusion is unfounded. The clear and convincing evidence demonstrates there is no conflict between progressive politics benefiting the privileged. The conflict is your belief progressive politics is not supposed to benefit the privileged.

Anonymous said...

I know someone who is trying to earn Canadian citizenship. He is actively taking steps to become what Canada needs - an investment he would not make if Canada just took him based on some sort of lottery basis. Among other things: if he were staying in the states, he would be content with his bachelor's, but since he wants to make himself attractive, he is now enrolled in a Canadian school to further his education in a field they need more of. He is also taking responsibility for finding employment (sponsorship).

Why is this bad? It seems to me this is a win-win: they get a more desirable citizen and he is more likely to be able to get good employment. Of course there are risks - investments cost money - but the risks do not seem unreasonable to me.

One could argue that it should (for fairness' sake) be made easier for people to get into the schools or find the jobs than it is now, but this person is neither rich nor privileged and is making his way on sheer will power so far.

Big Mike said...

@Nyamujal, are you not aware that Lieutenant is a rank in the military or the law enforcement community? Now he might turn out to be a lieutenant in the JAG, and unable to fight his way out of a New Orleans whorhouse if you have him a company of marines to help. But he might also be an officer in the Rangers, or worse yet, a full LT (not a JG) in the SEALs. Even if you’re big and strong guy, with martial arts training, one of them most dangerous people I have ever known was a middle aged portly woman that seemed to be the type to stay home and lnit scarves for her grandkids — but who had a a third degree black belt in tang su do karate.

Drago said...

Nyamujal: "Actually, I'd probably marry him too. He's probably the only intelligent voice in the comments section here"

Nyamujal self-identifies as non or less than intelligent.

I would disagree with Nyamujals point, naturally. Depending on the topic there are quite a few posters here who are capable of offering up some intelligent, relevant and often insightful comments.

Nyamujal said...

"I would disagree with Nyamujals point, naturally. Depending on the topic there are quite a few posters here who are capable of offering up some intelligent, relevant and often insightful comments."

You obviously aren't one of them.

Nyamujal said...

@Big Mike
"@Nyamujal, are you not aware that Lieutenant is a rank in the military or the law enforcement community? Now he might turn out to be a lieutenant in the JAG, and unable to fight his way out of a New Orleans whorhouse if you have him a company of marines to help. But he might also be an officer in the Rangers, or worse yet, a full LT (not a JG) in the SEALs. Even if you’re big and strong guy, with martial arts training, one of them most dangerous people I have ever known was a middle aged portly woman that seemed to be the type to stay home and lnit scarves for her grandkids — but who had a a third degree black belt in tang su do karate."

I suspect he's just a guy in his mom's basement. I've come across the kind of guys you talk of, even worked with them. They don't go around leaving racist comments on random internet forums.

Big Mike said...

@Howard, regarding guns, as long as the far left is propounding violence as the proper response to speech they do not like and political results they do not approve of, arming oneself seems a perfectly prudent thing to do. I do know that if I had been in my sedan and was trapped on Fourth Street in Charlottesville last August 12th, I could have rolled down the window, told the antifa thugs beating on my car that I was in fear for my life and please don't make me use this. And, yes, I would have I would have used that gun if need be to save my life.

Big Mike said...

@Nyamujal, I think you are overly sensitive. Count me among the growing number of Americans who are tired and fed up with everything being taken as racist. As a college student in the mid-1960s I demonstrated for civil rights. I know what racism looks like.

Lem said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Bad Lieutenant said...


I had you pegged


You seem to have sticks and asses firmly on the brain.

Bad Lieutenant said...

My wife is white, so that makes perfect sense.

Funny thing is, Nyah, that as Harvey Weinstein, Bob Menendez, Matt Lauer, and others show us, the fact that you're willing to put your dick in someone, doesn't mean that you wish them well.

Big Mike said...

@Bad LT, this former Spec 5 wishes you would just let it go. He's not going to meet you face to face, you're not going to meet him face to face, and if the two of you did meet face to face and started fighting I'd be rooting for both of you to lose.

Jupiter said...

Nyamujal said...

"Actually, I'd probably marry him too. He's probably the only intelligent voice in the comments section here."

Nonsense, and you know it. You're pretty clearly fairly intelligent yourself, for one. It's too bad you're a Commie. Of course, a lot of intelligent people are Commies when they're young, and grow out of it. If you are intelligent, enlightened, generous and idealistic, and imagine other people are as well, Communism appears to make sense. "To each according to his needs, from each according to his abilities." What a sensible arrangement, right? Actually, there are holes in that logic. There are holes in almost all logic. Fortunately, we don't need to rely on logic, we have history. And even a glancing study of the history of Communism makes it hard to remain Commie, unless you are more concerned with power than with human welfare.

There's hope for you, Muj. I have to remind myself, sometimes, what a palpable idiot I was when I was younger.

Bad Lieutenant said...

Oh, and:

The Scots-Irish have wrecked large parts of Appalachia and the Midwest.

To be called a racist, by such as you, is both an honor and a pleasure.

Incidentally, as I can boast the distinction of neither of those illustrious heritages, I am purely disinterested in the matter; but recognizing your unjust bigotry, and challenging it, is the pride of any actual American.

Michael K said...

BTW, my wife if American, so I guess I'm be here for a while.

Yeah, marrying women for the green card is probably common where you are from.

You sound like just the kind of person I don't want here.

Bad Lieutenant said...

BM, thank you, I'm not going to lay a finger on him (barring improbable circumstances). Impractical, and not worth it, certainly not to me. When he goes off his fit I'm sure the issue will not recur. I was just glad to have his attention for a moment.

Big Mike said...

@Dr. Michael K, not you too!

Drago said...

Nyamujal: "You obviously aren't one of them."

Yes, but of course.

There there now. Do you feel better?

Rick said...

upiter said...
Nonsense, and you know it. You're pretty clearly fairly intelligent yourself, for one.


We don't need to lie. Let the assholes stew in their hatred.

Nyamujal said...

@Big Mike
Thank you for your service. I might be a little sensitive tonight, but there's something about Bad L just rubs me the wrong way. I'm usually more thick skinned.

@Jupiter
You seem reasonable, so let me let you in on a little secret - I'm not a commie. Far from it. Apart from historical materialism, Marxism really had nothing good to offer. And it didn't really work out for the Ruskies and Cubans now did it. I actually enjoy reading Milton Friedman and viewing old episodes of "Firing Line" on Youtube. It reminds me of a time when the conservative movement carried great intellectual heft. A movement that would've appealed to me and if it had survived. Alas, as evinced by the Trumpkin commentators on this blog, conservatives today, or at least the Trumpkins, are just fanatics and reactionaries. They have nothing of value to offer but cheap racist comments and an exclusivist idea of what it means to be an American.

@Mike K
"Yeah, marrying women for the green card is probably common where you are from."

Exhibit A @Jupiter. Well Michael K, my wife is definitely smarter than me and would've seen through the whole "I'm marrying you for a greencard" scam from a mile away. But go ahead and stew in your bigotry.

@BL
"The Scots-Irish have wrecked large parts of Appalachia and the Midwest.

To be called a racist, by such as you, is both an honor and a pleasure. "

The initial comment was meant to be sarcastic. I deleted it because sarcasm is lost on you lot. I've been reminded of that over and over again. Of course the Scots-Irish haven't ruined the Midwest just as the Pakistanis haven't "ruined" Britain. It's a dumb and simplistic view of history and culture that anyone with basic sense should ignore. But it persists, as did the racist views people had about Italians, Poles, and other immigrant groups before they finally became the "in" group. But your response to my comment was telling and convinced me that you are indeed a cunt and deserve all the scorn I heaped on you.

Big Mike said...

Getting back to the original topic, I must admit that I enjoy all the myriad ways hard core lefties (e.g. Dahlia Lithwick) can find to describe Clarence Thomas as an dumb, uppity, n-word, without actually using the words “uppity” or “dumb” or the n-word.

n.n said...

all the myriad ways hard core lefties (e.g. Dahlia Lithwick) can find to describe Clarence Thomas as an dumb

Why not? The first victims of a left-wing revolution are competing factions, untrustworthy, once convenient means to an end. Case in point, the women and girls sacrificed by the female chauvinist revolution for personal, economic, political progress.

Char Char Binks said...

"my wife if American, so I guess I'm be here for a while"

Not necessarily. A marriage license isn't a green card.

Nyamujal said...

@char char
Like buwaya I already have a green card.

urbane legend said...

Unknown said...
Whom, not who. Nobody gets that right these days. Sad!

Where was that error made?

Bad Lieutenant said...

I deleted it because sarcasm is lost on you lot.

No, but sarcasm is a two-edged sword. A nasty weapon, and usually the weapon of the nasty, or at least the go-to. It just turned on you this time. How much better, if people would simply say what they actually mean!

I've been reminded of that over and over again.

I despise sarcasm, regret the occasions that I fall into it, and am pleased to send its purveyors away with a fear in their ear. Doesn't mean I don't "get" it.

Of course the Scots-Irish haven't ruined the Midwest just as the Pakistanis haven't "ruined" Britain.

The Scots-Irish substantially MADE much of the Midwest and other sectors of the nation. Would you pretend to contend that England NEEDED "Asians" to Make Britain
(or even Rotherham) Great Again?

They just made the decision, for good or ill, to favor immigration from former colonies.

Bad Lieutenant said...

But your response to my comment was telling and convinced me that you are indeed a cunt and deserve all the scorn I heaped on you.

Gee, Nyah, maybe I was being SARCASTIC!!!

Bad Lieutenant said...

Fear>>flea