It's hard to talk about the Roy Moore situation without including whatever preexisting bias you had about his impending election to the U.S. Senate.
Just yesterday, in the context of the racist graffiti hoax at the Air Force Academy, I was looking up the word "opportunism":
"Opportunism" is "The practice or policy of exploiting circumstances or opportunities to gain immediate advantage, rather than following a predetermined plan; the ability or tendency to exploit circumstances in this way. In later use esp. with the implication of cynicism or lack of regard to principles" (OED).I understand using whatever you've got, whatever comes your way, when you're trying to defeat a political opponent. And when opportunities arise — like WaPo's "Woman says Roy Moore initiated sexual encounter when she was 14, he was 32" — they will be exploited for immediate advantage. And there's no plan going forward. You could never get everyone together on a plan for what's acceptable in bringing up allegations about something sexual that happened in private many years ago. How many years ago? How close to the election? Which sexual things? Is kissing and petting a 14-year-old worse than brutally raping a 35-year-old? How do we factor in a failure to report the incident to the police or to bring a civil lawsuit?
Can we at least agree — as an abstract principle — that the standard should be the same for everyone who is accused? Do we not have a foundation of due process — fairness — values? We need to treat Roy Moore the way we would want our favorite politician to be treated, right?
I'm afraid most Americans will say wrong. I think most of us want to look at everything, give everything whatever weight we want, including suspicions like Pizzagate, and let it all roil and seethe throughout our crazy little minds and then go vote. That's democracy. It's not a court of law. And anyway, those judges and jurors in a court of law are only trying (or pretending) to be rational.
Jonah Goldberg says we should just assume WaPo got it right — WaPo, which must want the GOP candidate to lose. He says:
Now, if you honestly think all of the people talking to the Washington Post are lying and that the Post somehow got them all to make this up, you have got one of the biggest stories of the century. If you can prove it, Roy Moore will end up owning the Post after his lawsuit.Moore knows whether the allegations are true or not. He can withdraw if he knows they're true, but Goldberg says he should withdraw even if he knows the allegations are false, because he can make so much money in a defamation lawsuit against the Washington Post.
But Goldberg is only saying that because he thinks Moore is bad in so many other ways and because having to defend Moore will hurt the kind of Republicans he likes.
And Moore can't win that lawsuit, even if he knows the allegations are false. He's a public figure, and WaPo is protected when it publishes false statements, unless the plaintiff can prove that there was reckless disregard for whether it was false. The Washington Post was careful to make that impossible. Goldberg knows that, I think, because he was cagey enough to write that Moore would have to prove that "the Post somehow got them all to make this up." That's a lot to prove! That's the point of the defamation law. The Post is not at risk putting this material out there for people to decide for themselves how to use.
Most people, I suspect, already didn't like Roy Moore and didn't want him in the Senate, but the question is what will Alabama voters do with it. We're talking about people who chose him in the primary over the more normal man named Strange. That's not easy to discern. People are strange.
222 comments:
«Oldest ‹Older 201 – 222 of 222"She further claimed that the encounter ended when Moore, who was in only his underwear, guided her hand toward his penis. Corfman then reportedly asked that he stop and requested to be taken home.”
And women never lie, said Crystal Magnum
https://70news.wordpress.com/2017/11/10/roy-moores-two-accusers-leigh-corfmans-age-was-17-not-14-has-history-of-making-false-allegations-deborah-gibson-a-dem-volunteer/
Don't know how reliable this is- remembering that anyone can post anything on the internet, but then WAPO has a history of covering for Dems and falsely accusing Republicans, so read it and wonder- Who's telling the truth? If half of this is true, WAPO did as good a job of vetting witnesses as Rolling Stone did with the UVA incident. Which places them in legal jeopardy. Precedent and stare decisis and all that.
Howard, thanks for leading me to the Wiki page.
When was this molestation supposed to have happened ? He was in the Army until 1974. If he was 32, that was 79.
Hmm.
I don't believe it. So far it is all allegations. From an unreliable source.
The molestation happened in 79. He was 32 when it happened, the girl was 14. This has been stated in numerous articles for the last several days now.
“Leigh Corfman says she was 14 years old when an older man approached her outside a courtroom in Etowah County, Ala. She was sitting on a wooden bench with her mother, they both recall, when the man introduced himself as Roy Moore.
It was early 1979 and Moore — now the Republican nominee in Alabama for a U.S. Senate seat — was a 32-year-old assistant district attorney. He struck up a conversation, Corfman and her mother say, and offered to watch the girl while her mother went inside for a child custody hearing.
“He said, ‘Oh, you don’t want her to go in there and hear all that. I’ll stay out here with her,’ ” says Corfman’s mother, Nancy Wells, 71. “I thought, how nice for him to want to take care of my little girl.””
https://www.washingtonpost.com/investigations/woman-says-roy-moore-initiated-sexual-encounter-when-she-was-14-he-was-32/2017/11/09/1f495878-c293-11e7-afe9-4f60b5a6c4a0_story.html?utm_term=.c8504c78683f
Leigh Corfman is 53 today, 2017. In 1979 she was 14. Do the math. Sheesh. It should be easy to prove whether or not she’s 53 years old. I’m quite certain there is a birth certificate and a driver’s liscense and other documentation to prove she is 53 and in 1979 she was 14.
As someone who's actually 32, trying to imagine the reaction if a friend showed up to dinner with a high school sophomore.
-Benjy Sarlin
But 14 is a freshman, no?
Inga is hot on the trail.
Maybe Inga has three divorces and a bankruptcy plus IRS assessments. I'm sure you would never lie about an encounter 35 years ago when offered money.
As someone who's actually 32, trying to imagine the reaction if a friend showed up to dinner with a high school sophomore.
He denied it and said if it was true he should withdraw.
The WePoo did a similar hit job on George Allen. Remember/ With guys who said they knew him in college 25 years ago asserting that he smashed black people's mailboxes.
No police reports, of course or any other corroboration.
It worked then. Why not now ?
I’m quite certain there is a birth certificate and a driver’s liscense and other documentation to prove she is 53 and in 1979 she was 14.
Good for you. Certainty is comforting. But I don’t trust the Post. Where do they stand on Koi feeding?
HT!! Where are you? We miss you. We need your input. We didn’t mean to frighten you.
I am pretty sure that Clinton never denied raping Broaddrick, nor did he offer any exculpatory evidence to refute the five additional sworn statements of contemporaneous witnesses, each of whom, like Broaddrick, faced prison time for lying, but you go ahead and cover fkr the raoist, HT, and call all of the accusers liars, like a good Democrat feminist.
Believe it or not, I used to post on Lucianne.com as JonaFan, years ago. I have no idea what's happened to him since he used to write the original G-File.
Michael K
From Liberal Fascism, where Jonah almost slid into libertarianism, to Trump Derangement Syndrome, which seems to be the Legionnaire's Disease of the NRO.
Grackle, I just point out your errors. Tim, what?
Try to make sense.
Maybe Inga has three divorces and a bankruptcy plus IRS assessments. I'm sure you would never lie about an encounter 35 years ago when offered money.
Echoes of James Carville's "drag a hundred-dollar bill through a trailer park, you never know what you'll find".
And the one with the most serious accusations. 3 divorces, a bankruptcy, financial troubles... Did those 30 people they interviewed include her 3 ex-husbands with their statements on how truthful she is?
11/10/17, 4:49 PM
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You see, and these are merely some of the questions that must be asked, yet it is already distasteful. But the Ds eat it up. Alinsky -a good tactic is one your people enjoy.
The nyt now refers to the three women with whom there was apparently no misconduct as "accusers."
Shameless Democrat media pimps.
It is so impressive when Unknown cites the WaPo as evidence of the credibility of the WaPo.
The best way to kill this tactic is to go nuclear with it against the left. Hollywood and Washington both have a lot of sexual deviancy skeletons in the closet, and the WaPo surely has to know Democrats have a lot of vulnerability here too. While they may have been able to protect them in the past, the accusations roiling Hollywood and killing careers should have clued them in that being a card-carrying member of the left is no longer protection against accusations and that this tactic could boomerang on them.
If I'm Steve Bannon, I'm going digging for as much of that dirty laundry as possible for 2018.
And the one with the most serious accusations. 3 divorces, a bankruptcy, financial troubles...
What does President Trump have to do this case?
Grackle, I just point out your errors.
That’s fantastic! And instructive. Welcome back, HT. I’m sure we all appreciate your guidance.
We know now (thanks to you) that the accusers of Roy Moore did NOT contact the Post reporter. And that the Post contacted the accusers after being advised of their existence by a third party. You were emphatic on THAT point.
I’m just wondering, though, if you have found out exactly who that third party was. We really need to know who ALL the actors are, you know, so we can judge their credibility. Any luck?
When I first encountered this controversy my immediate thought was that Moore was toast. But the more I see of this railroading of Moore the more it smells like MSM-concocted bullshit.
This reminds me of the Justice Clarence Thomas confirmation hearings and the Anita Hill allegations. I suspect what happened there was that Anita Hill did what a lot of us have done. She tried to make herself more interesting to her acquaintances by inventing stories about her time working around Thomas.
But some of these folks went to the MSM with her stories and a few innocently-told lies that poor Anita never thought would go further turned into a MSM-generated controversy.
Thankfully, Thomas WAS confirmed and I think Roy Moore will be elected.
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