The Left didn't say nuffin' when Jerry Seinfeld (38) dated Shoshanna Lonstein (17), who was in HIGH SCHOOL at the time! In fact, the press raved about it! pic.twitter.com/o8kOVfrzYr— Boston🇺🇸Bobblehead (@DBloom451) November 11, 2017
ADDED: The first thing I did after posting this was to search the NYT archive for the 2 names. The oldest article, published March 1, 1998, refers to the relationship in the past:
Shoshanna Lonstein, the 22-year-old Long Islander who once graced the gossip pages as Jerry Seinfeld's girlfriend, watched in amusement as her friend [the stylist Phillip] Bloch went to town on his favorite subjects.From that we can infer that the NYT not only didn't "rave" about the relationship but saw the story of the relationship as beneath the level that should be reported. At most, you can criticize the NYT for not criticizing Seinfeld, but it certainly didn't cheer him on.
AND: Next I searched the Washington Post archive. Here:
Posts
165 comments:
No they did not.
Priscilla was 14 when Elvis started to woo her.
Dayum Seinfelt!
I do remember when this was in the news. Mostly treated as puzzling but cute, as I recall.
"Democracy dies in Darkness": it's a how-to manual!
I forgot, did Seinfeld and Elvis run for the U.S. Senate?
But it is fun to watch the right define deviancy down.
Democrats are always trying to keep the House and Senate pure. When they aren't hiring pay boys.
Put your tinfoil hats on. Bannons made a couple million from seinfeld
Main thing from the time seems to be a People magazine article:
The story of Jerry and Shoshanna is probably best told in a People article titled “The Game of Love,” published in March of 1994, which is positioned from the perspective of the world having taught itself to accept their romance. “When Jerry Seinfeld fell for 17-year-old Shoshanna Lonstein, cynics snickered,” the subheadline reads. “No more.”
An after-the-fact quote:
Seinfeld also seemed to have the support of his colleagues. Julia Louis-Dreyfus, in an interview in New York in 1999, after Seinfeld and Lonstein broke up, said that she was in favor of the couple because it made Seinfeld happy:
I am Laslo.
For the record, I thought it was creepy at the time, independent of the fact that she had enormous breasts.
I don't think this is an attempt to define deviancy down so much as the right asking what are the rules. When you can rape teenagers and get a standing ovation like Polanski, it really is hard to define that down further. If Moore did it, good riddance to him.
She was in The Flower of Youth.
Some people like fresh flowers.
I am Laslo.
I think the best defense for Seinfeld is 17 is a big difference from 14.
One mathematical fact is that the higher you raise the elgibility age, the more criminals you have.
Hysteria needs to consider that.
Maybe a hard line is morally meaningless. It would seem to depend on circumstances, which is more or less the old rules.
The problem with high school girls is
1. They talk nonsense
2. They're in varying degrees not up to making an advantageous deal.
though it doesn't seem that way when you're in high school.
Wikipedia has a wonderful line: Early in their relationship, Spy Magazine referred to her as "a legal voter".
No love for Jerry Lee Lewis then?
President of the Massachusetts State Senate:
https://www.bostonglobe.com/opinion/2014/12/05/sex-power-and-access-beacon-hill/EfZq4khxEMiYBar8HSyYBM/amp.html
I think the age of consent in New York was 17. (But don't take my word for it.)
The 14 part is in doubt. Her date of her mother's divorce hearing (which, according to her, was her first meeting with Moore) would make her 17. He denies even hearing her name. In any event, it's hard to prove a negative.
Paul Walker's girlfriend was 23 at the time he died, but she was 16 and he was 33 at the time they started dating.
Shouldn't there be more than one underage accuser of Moore? He seems to concede that he went out with teenagers who had reached the age of consent (and some of them are in the WaPo article), but there's only one who says she was 14. If he really is (or was) as horrible as the one incident is being used to make him sound, wouldn't there have been more than one? You could say maybe there were, but they haven't been found or they chose to maintain their silence.
Lileks long ago said he had no trouble with his baby daughter dating when she's 26.
After the Louis CK incident, I'm beginning to think some women want to raise the age of consent to never, if in hindsight they are sorry.
Perhaps WaPo would like to tell us exactly how much money they threw around. Someone with three divorces and as many bankruptcies, who is only threading water even now, might be tempted to say almost anything for a few of those thousands.
Wait. Did the WaPo mess up her age and she wasn't really 14? ... That's a big mistake if true.
Another "Open Secret" the left loves so much. No praise, no criticism, just the warm glow you know something the rubes don't know because the rubes would be disapproving and they are so uncool.
Comedians In Recess Getting Lucky
Just to be clear, the one who says she was 14 only alleges touching through clothing and kissing. On a date, she says.
"Now I Know! said...
I forgot, did Seinfeld and Elvis run for the U.S. Senate?"
Could you explain this idiocy? Do you mean that it's okay to date 17 year olds as long as you don't run for Senate? It's some kind of disqualifier?
There is no reason for a man over thirty dating a fourteen-year-old girl.
Unless she is dying of cancer and this is her last chance at a real relationship.
That would be the kind of cancer where they stay cute until the end.
You know: Hollywood cancer.
I am Laslo.
The only "evidence" that connects Moore is that his office was in the court building where her mother's divorce hearing was held. I don't know if anyone checked to see he was at work that day. I would suspect the Media isn't looking for exculpatory evidence.
To keep this in perspective, there is no chance that the Alabamans are voting for a Democrat. So, it is all just more virtue signaling on the right.
Seeing as they went hunting for accusers, interviewing people over and over again until they got the story, I doubt they had time to check for exculpatory information.
I think we need to see her ballot to make sure she really was a Trump voter. The Washington Post has problems finding them.
Moore's answers have not been super comforting. Bit if it is he said she said still, I don't really know what else we can do. Unless there's more information coming soon.
WaPo was approached by an unnamed person with the four names--they didn't dig them up. That's why some suspect Republican elite involvement.
Can we get a cite to the girl being 17 at the time of the divorce hearing. I tried Google but nothing is popping up for me.
A story from shortly after I moved to LA:
I started dating the daughter of a professional comedian. On one date we were at Brentano's bookstore in the Century City mall, browsing in our separate sections, and I happened to see a stunning young woman who looked familiar. When I met my date (now wife of 22 years) at the checkout line, I said "You're not gonna believe this, but I saw a woman who looked exactly like Shoshanna Lohnstein." "That's funny," she deadpanned. "I just saw a man who looked exactly like Jerry Seinfeld."
The other three--who were either 17 or 18--just allege the date and he essentially confirms that. Kissing and hand holding were the only things alleged.
Shouldn't there be more than one underage accuser of Moore?
So in your book how many 14 year olds does someone in their mid-30s have to date before they are truly despicable?
I know you are saying that there should be more evidence of bad behavior, but your double standard is showing again.
http://beforeitsnews.com/opinion-conservative/2017/11/roy-moores-two-accusers-leigh-corfmans-age-was-17-not-14-has-history-of-making-false-allegations-deborah-gibson-a-dem-volunteer-for-moores-opponent-3338233.html
Google seems to have fewer relevant hits on this query than Friday/Saturday. I can't find one with the date of the hearing and her date of birth.
Darrell said...
WaPo was approached by an unnamed person with the four names--they didn't dig them up. That's why some suspect Republican elite involvement.
Sounds like a fusion GPS operation.
But keep in mind Moore said he never heard of her--Leigh Corfman. On Friday, I suggested that both should submit to a polygraph without advance notice.
As I recall (I'm not going back and looking for it), Moore's attempted tryst with a 14-year-old is supposed to have taken place in his house. At a minimum, she should be able to describe the inside of his house.
Since he says he never met her, that would have some bearing on credibility.
Now I Know! said...
I forgot, did Seinfeld and Elvis run for the U.S. Senate?
But it is fun to watch the right define deviancy down.
So it's ok so long as he's not running for the Senate?
The ability of liberals to split hairs precisely as finely as they need to to support the position they were going to take no matter what never ceases to impress me.
Can Moore be replaced? Or can the GOP support a write-in candidate?
Far be it for a major news organization to disappear articles that make its current political stance look hypocritical...
The Man Who Likes Underage Girls...
You know how it is, when it first snows and the snow is smooth and pure glistening white? Then, a few days later, people have trudged through it and it is crushed and grey? I like the snow when it is fresh...
Maybe that analogy is too oblique. What I am saying is that I like young girls. Life has not trudged upon them yet. A lot of times they haven't even had sex...
Gravity and disappointment haven't taken hold of them yet. Women in their twenties, everything is disappointing to them. Women older than that, everything has already been massively disappointing to them, and now they have Man Issues. Somehow it is a Man's Fault that they are unhappy with the choices they have made. And now disappointment leads to desperation, which inevitably leads to bitterness. Ladies: why would I want to be around you during any of these three stages...?
Sometimes I wonder why God made women at their best before they are even eighteen, but you see the proof anytime a high school lets out. They are full of exuberance, in their minds and in their bodies. Their sex has not been despoiled by countless Bad Boys, their minds are not sour from being left for someone younger...
Oh, there is so much to tell about the Joys of young girls! Perhaps we will meet again, and I shall share more...
I am Laslo.
Replacing him, if possible, would hit the due process of the law. But--
Thirty-five is the ideal age for a woman, plus or minus five years or so.
Degrees of outrage: I'm more offended by the.manipulations of the Washington Post than by Judge Moore's tacky behavior.
Making the females age 14 to 17 , which was originally the preferred age of sex and marriage , into a 4 year long prohibited by age category for older men ( calling them Jailbait) seemed to be a Patriarchal Male rule made for the benefit of teen age boys who otherwise do not compete. That was a serious reason for the outlawing of Mormon Polygamy, that only the old guys with money would corner the market on young women for wives leaving nothing for the teenage boys.
IIR when I was 14 to 17, many of the best looking,social girls in High School went to Fraternity Parties where they mated with the Georgia Tech students. There definitely ought to be a law against that.
Darrell, the problem is keeping her there. Preserving in amber is right out.
Let his wife run on this ballot. Do the rules preclude changing "Mr." to "Mrs.?"
Now I Know! said...
I forgot, did Seinfeld and Elvis run for the U.S. Senate?
But it is fun to watch the right define deviancy down.
Democrats are undecided if Menendez (D/NJ) should resign or be removed from the Senate if he is convicted of felony corruption but demand that Roy Moore withdraw from the election on the basis of allegations. Hypocrisy, much?
There are very few things in life more exalting and exhilarating than the adulation of a young, beautiful woman, particularly if you're an older man with hair loss issues.
Laslo
Women's looks and attractiveness to men peak at 36 according to studies.
"Women's looks and attractiveness to men peak at 36 according to studies."
Sure.
"Studies."
Which is why Playboy had all of those 36-year-old centerfolds.
I am Laslo.
In porn the 26-year-old girl plays the mother of the teenager.
The 36-year-old plays the grandmother.
I am Laslo.
Until the left purge Bill Clinton and Harvey Weistinen(D- mega Democrat donor) - shut the hell up.
How many major newspapers and media outlets demand Bill Clinton get off the ballot. The allegations, including "RAPE RAPE" were well know by them before his running for President.
As I do not follow celebrity news, I did not know of Seinfeld's teenage girlfriend. It speaks poorly of a grown man that he would seek out the company of someone too immature to hold up her end of a conversation. She is obviously physically attractive, but if that's all there is in a relationship, it's not much of a relationship.
Laslo
I'm talking real life. ;-)
I don't get why everyone is so astounded at older guys wanting younger women and younger women being attracted to older guys. It is biological.
Sometimes I wonder why God made women at their best before they are even eighteen, but you see the proof anytime a high school lets out
Here Laslo...let me splain it to you.
Biologically, at the age of 13 or so, the human animal: women and men are ready for sexual activity. I say women and men instead of girls and boys because the biological imperative is that at that age the humans are ready to beget the next generation of humans and are therefore adults and ready to fulfill their function.
As biological humans in the early ages, the individual was unlikely to live much past the age of 30. Death from accident, war, disease, childbirth, degenerative conditions due to hard living all made it imperative that you reproduce and SOON. It was also optimal that the young healthy women were to be the child-bearers. If the man's first woman was worn out, or dead, the man would obtain a younger model and continue trying to perpetuate the human race.
Just because we culturally 'call' teenagers children and retard their adulthood until the age of 26 doesn't make them biologically and hormonally children. We are an aberration in the history of humanity in the length of time we are able to healthily live. Our hormones just haven't caught up with the trend.
That younger women are often attracted to older men is also a biological imperative. If the older man has actually survived, then there is some quality in him that is a plus for survival of HER children. He may be powerful in the tribe and better able to provide for HER future children. He may have great genetics for physical characteristics that enhance suvival. Disease resistant. Probably smarter, if not luckier, than the rest.
That older women are also attracted to the young male is natural too. The young guys are being cut out of the sexual romping going on by the older more successful male. What to do with all that energy? Well....they could start an inter-tribal war and kill the old goats. Or they could take up the offer of the neglected older woman, who is no longer in danger of producing babies (and it WAS a danger in those days)who still desire sex. Win win for everyone. The young guy gets some practice in sex, the old guys don't have to kill the young guys, tribal warfare doesn't destroy the group, and the older women take a break from watching the grand or great grand kids and get some young stud sex!!! WINNING!!.
It is natural.
Doesn't mean that people can't control their biological urges to conform to cultural pressure, but it is the natural way of humanity. Why be surprised?
Pretty sure that 17 year old girls with large breasts are not worried about holding up her end of a conversation.
Until the left purge Bill Clinton and Harvey Weistinen(D- mega Democrat donor) - shut the hell up.
Anyone who voted for a man who bragged about grabbing women by the pussy (with ample evidence that it was more than "locker room" talk) should probably shut the hell up too.
I saw him talking about his teenage daughter starting to date and telling her that she would be interested in boys soon and he said her reply was "you're being sexist." That daughter is not going to be happy with this comparison
That would be the kind of cancer where they stay cute until the end.
You know: Hollywood cancer.
I am Laslo.
11/13/17, 7:17 AM
That's what Ali McGraw died of in "Love Story."
"There are very few things in life more exalting and exhilarating than the adulation of a young, beautiful woman, particularly if you're an older man with hair loss issues."
You're an ageist, sexist, bald, old male pig. And what you find exalting, and exhilarating is, in my judgement, tasteless, tactless, and worthy of scorn, not adulation. You are the Harvey Weinsteins of the world.
Which is why Playboy had all of those 36-year-old centerfolds.
I remember they did have one centerfold who was in her 30s and had two kids. It was way back in the 80s.
I don't remember her name, but she was on at least one episode of Simon and Simon.
When I started at my firm, one of my best friends (kind of a jack Mormon) who was about 30 started dating a 17 year old girl/young woman (they eventually married, had twins then divorced after about 15 years).
The other men our age (or older) in the firm were shocked by this; they had no idea that you could get a 17 year old to go out with you. BTW, yes she was gorgeous.
"Doesn't mean that people can't control their biological urges to conform to cultural pressure, but it is the natural way of humanity. Why be surprised?"
I'm not surprised; the character is (although 'surprised' isn't quite the word, it will suffice).
I like putting unlikeable situations in the context of a believer.
Sometimes the believers might even be sympathetic, even when they are wrong.
And sometimes they are wrong in Big Things but less wrong in Small Things.
And sometimes they are just assholes.
I am Laslo.
There was a time in western culture that men didn't get married till they had made it economically in life, then they would marry very young teenage women. Women over the age of 23 were spinsters. In the big picture that wasn't that long ago.
"That's what Ali McGraw died of in "Love Story."
Exactly. There was some Mandy Moore film years ago where she had it, too.
I am Laslo.
"Anyone who voted for a man who bragged about grabbing women by the pussy (with ample evidence that it was more than "locker room" talk) should probably shut the hell up too."
Lulz
I guess I'm surprised by a lot of things that happen, but I wasn't expecting this kind of grand opening of the question: what happens behind closed doors, to what extent are men pigs, etc.
Older men marrying teenagers, especially in the South: Loretta Lynn and Doo, Jerry Lee Lewis and Myra, Elvis and Priscilla. One story is Elvis telling a very young pregnant Priscilla: maybe I'm old-fashioned, but I can't imagine making love to a pregnant woman or a mother. Priscilla to herself: if I'm faithful to my husband, no more sex whatsoever?
My recollection is that Jerry spoke to Shoshanna's parents early on, and made it clear he had serious intentions, i.e. he was thinking of getting married and having kids, he wasn't going to use and dump a nice young woman.
Only one Moore story seems criminal (and for that one there is indeed a big difference between 13 and 17), and it includes no mention of any talk about marriage, or anything other than Moore getting what he wanted, without much concern about what the teenage girl wanted. In many states at the time, I guess, maybe particularly Southern states, the statutory rape law might have applied unless he married her. Sounds like a bad joke about the old days.
"Drag a hundred-dollar bill through a trailer park, you never know what you'll find." - James Carville
This whole Roy Moore story makes me ask, what would Jerry Lee Lewis do?
I recommend that everyone who reads this blog show up at an Alabama precinct on election day, claim you are a registered Democratic voter named Jerry L. Lewis, and vote provisionally for Roy Moore. Jeff Sessions is in Washington, so there is no chance you will be bothered...and it just might work! And if you are arrested, just tell them that a blogger named Now I Know! told you to do it. If asked your real name, say "Unknown."
"That's what Ali McGraw died of in "Love Story."
Yes, but Ali dump the poor guy in "Goodbye Columbus".
Ali MacGraw was over 30 when she made those movies and got better looking over the next decade.
"Ali MacGraw was over 30 when she made those movies and got better looking over the next decade."
Or did Hollywood Make-Up artists get better?
Everyone forgets the Little People.
I am Laslo.
There was a time in western culture that men didn't get married till they had made it economically in life, then they would marry very young teenage women. Women over the age of 23 were spinsters. In the big picture that wasn't that long ago.
I see this asserted but what I've read over the years tends to indicate that this was an exaggeration. Women married most often between 16-22, or later depending on the period. Men married in their late twenties or early thirties. Younger marriages were rare, and were more likely the province of the wealthy and powerful. For one thing, dowries were a burden on poorer families, meaning that a woman wasn't married off until her family could afford it. For men, one son might be allowed to marry, since that was all the family could afford to pay in dower, and other sons were expected to help around the household.
Women's looks and attractiveness to men peak at 36 according to studies.
It's all downhill after men turn 37.
My paternal grandfather (born in 1880) was 35 when he married my grandmother, who was 18. His first wife died in childbirth. He had 6 children with my grandmother. Nobody raised an eyebrow about it.
"Comes on like a dream
Peaches and cream
lips like strawberry wine.
She's sixteen, she's beautiful, and she's mine."
It's almost like this stuff was more culturally accepted at one time in the past....
"Nature's first green is gold." An eternal truth about the attractiveness of women. If only our DNA wasn't so strongly biased towards successful reproduction... If only we had been created by a God who had complete fairness between the sexes in mind...
Fortunately, what older women have going for them is that they are not completely empty-headed and vapid conversationalists.
Well, she was just 17
You know what I mean
And the way she looked was way beyond compare
So how could I dance with another (Ooh)
When I saw her standing there ?
My late bosses eloped to Virginia so they could marry when she was 16 and he was 21. She had a nasty step-mother and doormat father who'd thrown her out.
Steve McQueen is unavailable to testify. But, MacGraw was the perfect woman, beautiful, Wellesley College education, liked to party and a sex addict. Perfect dating material.
"For the record, I thought it was creepy at the time, independent of the fact that she had enormous breasts."
Really, at the time I thought this was the heart of the matter. But that's the way my mind works so I was willing to concede there might be a more nuanced explanation.
I’m surprised that Cher hasn’t tweeted about the creepiness of older men dating teens.
My older sister went to high school with a girl who married their chemistry teacher , who was in his early 30's at the time. a few months after graduation, right after she turned 18. She was that rarity, a teenage girl who could keep her mouth shut (OK, that sets Laslo up nicely) and so everyone was startled by news of the marriage. They left the area and moved out West somewhere. I have no idea if things worked out for him.
My sister said he was a good looking man, so some of the other girls were rather jealous.
A 28 year old Vietnam vet was interested in me when I was 17. I did not go out with him, but I admit I was flattered at the time by the attention. Looking back on it with middle-aged eyes, it seems creepy, but that's not how it seemed to me at the time. His interest seemed proof of my maturity. This older man, who actually fought in a war, likes me, so I'm not just some silly kid. In retrospect, I think it was the boobs and the halter tops that did it.
" I have no idea if things worked out for him." I meant to write "them."
Bob Boyd said...
"Drag a hundred-dollar bill through a trailer park, you never know what you'll find." - James Carville
Prices have gone up. Supposedly they were offering a thousand for negative stories on Moore.
IIR when I was 14 to 17, many of the best looking,social girls in High School went to Fraternity Parties where they mated with the Georgia Tech students.
When I was in the fraternity in Los Angeles in the late 50s, quite a few guys dated high school girls from the private girls schools there. It was sort of a thing for those girls to get to go to fraternity parties.
I would add that my one brush with The Mann Act was when I met a girl at a party being held by the apartment building manager who was a Redondo Beach police officer. She and another girl announced they wanted to go to Las Vegas. Those were the days when my roommate and I would go to Vegas at 2 AM with a minimum of suggestion, especially by two good looking girls.
WE went and arrived about 7 AM. My roommate was by now sober and depressed because he was getting married in two weeks and what was he doing in Vegas with two girls? He announced he wanted to go home and we packed up. One of the girls, who had had no trouble being served booze in a casino, announced she didn't want to go and she had met a blackjack dealer and was staying.
We finally got home after dropping off the other girl and went to bed. I was awakened by the guy at whose party we had met the girls, who announced the one left behind was 15 years old !
Long story short, she returned a couple of days later, told off her mother and father who were getting divorced and the problem went away although the memory was burned into my brain.
The point of this story is did Moore KNOW this girl was 14, if indeed she was?
The three bankruptcies and three divorces are enough to doubt her story but I have a daughter who at 14 looked old enough to be taken for 17 or 18.
I still say this is a WaPoo hit job, in spite of Field Marshall Freder and the other lefties here.
I once made out and fondled a 14 year old girl while she was in her bra and panties. I was wearing only my boxers and 13.
Lost my virginity two years later at 15 to a 19 year old junior in college. Carried on with her on and off till she got married when I was a senior in college. Was I a predator or victim or do chicks just dig me?
Speaking of high school girls going to fraternity parties.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D9Bw9PmpAHM
A 28 year old Vietnam vet was interested in me when I was 17. I did not go out with him, but I admit I was flattered at the time by the attention. Looking back on it with middle-aged eyes, it seems creepy, but that's not how it seemed to me at the time. His interest seemed proof of my maturity. This older man, who actually fought in a war, likes me, so I'm not just some silly kid. In retrospect, I think it was the boobs and the halter tops that did it.
The summer I was 17, I dated a 27 year old guy who had just gotten out of the Navy; he had been an officer, too. Same as you, at the time I was flattered by the attention from this older, handsome, accomplished guy. That totally meant I was All Grown Up and clearly mature and clever and entertaining, right? Bless my little heart. Looking back, I remember how energetic and eager to please I was, and think about how much selfish fun it must have been for that guy to introduce that kid to some of the things he introduced me to. He was gone at the end of the summer, of course, and it's a minor-to-moderate miracle I didn't wind up pregnant or with an STD.
Also that summer (ah, 17....), I befriended my now-husband, who was also 27, but being a fine man and a gentleman he did nothing other than kiss me, even though he absolutely wanted more and I absolutely would have gone along with it (because again, ooh look at how cool I am, all these adult guys want to be with me--teenagers are so stupid). Which brings me to,
Women's looks and attractiveness to men peak at 36 according to studies.
My husband met and wanted me when I was 17, but married me at 35, and says all the time how while the wait sucked, it was worth it because I'm just as sexy as I was then, but now I have caught up to him in wisdom and maturity and he can value me as his best friend, closest advisor and life partner as well. Isn't that sweet? :)
The available evidence establishes that Moore dated perilously close to the legal/consensual divide.
Without a history of transgression, or pattern of abuses, the likely explanation for the one alleged underage accuser is that she was part of a courtship cut short upon discovery (of age).
""There are very few things in life more exalting and exhilarating than the adulation of a young, beautiful woman, particularly if you're an older man with hair loss issues."
You're an ageist, sexist, bald, old male pig. And what you find exalting, and exhilarating is, in my judgement, tasteless, tactless, and worthy of scorn, not adulation. You are the Harvey Weinsteins of the world. "
Yeah, us older guys, who most women find invisible, should HATE, just hate, being found attractive by a young, beautiful woman.
Lighten up Francis. He didn't say "bedding, boinking, or raping" these women. He didn't say "using his authority to coerce them". He said it was flattering.
I would find it flattering, and astounding. Yet I would remain, as always, faithful to my beautiful wife.
Harvey Weinstein my ass.
Picked up a boy just south of Mobile
Gave him a ride, filled him with a hot meal
I was sixteen, he was twenty-one
Rode with us to Memphis
And papa would've shot him if he knew what he'd done
One of the biggest advantages about being in a relationship with someone your own age as opposed to a May December relationship is that you likely both have common cultural references.
Listened to the same music when you were younger, same movies, remember the same or similar historical events. "Where were you when you heard that Kennedy had been assassinated?" Or..."when the Twin Towers came down?" If you are with someone 20 years your junior you have nothing to talk about.
You don't get a blank look or have to explain yourself every time you make an 'inside' joke or oblique reference to a song, book or movie dialogue. You are on the same page in many ways.
Shared life experiences.
Inside her there's longing,
This girl's an open page.
Book marking, she's so close now,
This girl is half his age.
"Freder Frederson said...
Shouldn't there be more than one underage accuser of Moore?
So in your book how many 14 year olds does someone in their mid-30s have to date before they are truly despicable?
I know you are saying that there should be more evidence of bad behavior, but your double standard is showing again."
This is so stupid it is actually painful to read.
Freder Frederson said...
Until the left purge Bill Clinton and Harvey Weistinen(D- mega Democrat donor) - shut the hell up.
Anyone who voted for a man who bragged about grabbing women by the pussy (with ample evidence that it was more than "locker room" talk) should probably shut the hell up too."
You can't even get your propaganda quotes right. Trump said if you were rich or famous you could do that. He didn't say he did that. But here you are making false analogies and embarrassing yourself with willful stupidity. Incidentally, it doesn't say much for the integrity of The Nothing But Crap network that they held this tape out of the public's view for years as long Trump was making them millions. But then again, who expects honesty and virtue from whores?
"Fortunately, what older women have going for them is that they are not completely empty-headed and vapid conversationalists."
This, too, is an outdated norm from a bygone age.
I Have Misplaced My Pants
" because I'm just as sexy as I was then, but now I have caught up to him in wisdom and maturity and he can value me as his best friend, closest advisor and life partner as well. Isn't that sweet? :)"
I walked in on my mother getting out of the shower six months before I got married, she had nine children. I had never seen her naked before and as a young immature guy I was freaked out. I was getting married in six months. I was in town to play golf with my father, on the golf course I asked him about it. He replied that my mom was in his mind's eye the same 18 year old girl he married as a cadet in 1941. I guess that explains the nine kids.
I remember hearing that a girl I didn't know at our high school was dating a married thirty year old. "Ew!"
"Fortunately, what older women have going for them is that they are not completely empty-headed and vapid conversationalists."
This also tends to be what older men who don't want to date teenagers have going for them.
The Man Who Likes Underage Girls...
People say that there is nothing to talk about with an underage girl. These people choose to forget how wonderful it is to see the world again through fresh eyes, to willingly let go of the jadedness we let pass as maturity…
What happens to most women as they age? They get more neurotic, that's what happens. So what do you get to talk about with them? Their neuroses, and their little daily stories whose little daily conflicts arise from these neuroses. For these women, it always seems be raining inside their head; is it wrong to want to be with someone who sees blue skies…?
Older women see their disappointments as signs of their maturity. It is NOT maturity: it is narcissism, as they confuse their labyrinth of poor choices with earned wisdom. Who wants to be with someone who will no doubt die in disappointment, knowing little save for what went wrong in their lives…?
Sure, young girls don't often have a breadth of experience for conversation. But again: what experiences do older women bring to conversation? A viewpoint about how I am Wrong. I do not need that, and I choose to stay away from that. If I need interesting conversation from an older woman there are some on the Internet who write interesting things…
I am Laslo.
Washington Post Dec 21 1993
Comedian Jerry Seinfeld is apparently still hot and heavy with Shoshanna Lonstein, the local young thing he's been dating for a while. The loving couple was spotted around town this weekend dining and sitting through a showing of "The Snapper" at the Key.
Washington Post Dec 7 1994:
WE'VE HEARD THAT...
+ Word around the campus of George Washington University is that former student Shoshanna Lonstein - the teenage ex-love of comedian Jerry Seinfeld who switched to UCLA last year reportedly to be closer to him - is headed back to the East Coast and is in the process of transferring back to her old schoo
"It speaks poorly of a grown man that he would seek out the company of someone too immature to hold up her end of a conversation."
That's quite an assumption. I'm expected to understand and appreciate all people as individuals. There are 3 exceptions: if the person is white, male or old...
Anyways. I cop to living with an 18-yr-old when I was 37. We spent way more time talking than anything - although there was plenty of anything, too. She started the day with the NY Times X-Word puzzle. In ink. About 20 minutes. I never could do that.
Then there was the time Jerry Seinfeld married the newlywed. I think they are still married so that’s something.
The Man Who Likes Underage Girls...
A big part of the problem with older women is that they simply aren't as interesting as they think they are. They think they have a unique self, yet it is pretty much interchangeable with most any neurotic woman…
When someone says an older woman is charming, what they mean is she is not currently talking from her neuroses. For the moment. This will change…
When someone says an older woman is intelligent, it means she has some basic knowledge of a few things that exist outside of her own head. Maybe she read a book. And she will tell you about this book. And -- months later -- she will bring up this same book. Because she thinks it makes her appear intelligent. Because it is a book she read…
Know what's an interesting book? 'The Scarlet Letter'. You know who just recently read it? The high school girl. If I want to hear how 'The Scarlet Letter' shows how evil men are, I will talk to an older woman about it. Myself, I'm more curious to hear what the young girl has to say…
I am Laslo.
Dust Bunny Queen said:
"One of the biggest advantages about being in a relationship with someone your own age as opposed to a May December relationship is that you likely both have common cultural references."
I referenced the Steely Dan song "Hey Nineteen" last night. "Hey, Nineteen, we can't talk at all..." The singer points out "'retha Franklin" to the youngster who doesn't know who she is. (Actually, I don't think that's a good example. "Hey, Nineteen" was recorded in 1981, when I was just a couple of years older than the girl in the song and my friends and I all knew who Aretha Franklin was.)
I think that different cultural references were not much of a problem prior to the 1920's. Flappers who drank, smoked, displayed their knees and had crushes on Rudolph Valentino must have shocked and mystified (and undoubtedly titillated) gentlemen who came of age in 1910. A May-December couple in 1880 basically lived in the same cultural universe, if they were of the same class.
NTTAWWT?
Why limit yourself to WaPo and NYT on a celebrity thing? From People Mag in March, 1994:
http://people.com/archive/cover-story-the-game-of-love-vol-41-no-11/
The COVER STORY.
Now she was 17 when they met, not 14...
The Man Who Likes Underage Girls...
I have talked about how neuroses fester in older women. This can be traced to a simple source: Feminism. Why are high school girls better than older women? Because once a girl gets to college she gets immersed in Feminism, and it festers inside her for the rest of her life…
Why can't she get promoted? Bad Men.
Why can't she have a relationship? Bad Men.
Why does she have eighty-grand in college debt for a Women's Studies degree? Bad Decision. Brought on by Feminism.
Ladies: you can't Have It All. No one can. But it will tear you apart, trying. Spread too thin, parts of your life will fail. Feminism is to blame for this, not men…
When men have a conversation with the 'educated' woman, they know they must hold back. They cannot tell the truth. To tell the truth is to point out that the woman's Identity is based on curdled bumper-sticker proclamations. These are NOT the kind of conversations men are seeking, but it is the conversation that women most like to offer…
The high school girl does not yet recognize that this is her future. And that is what makes her company so pleasurable. And the sex, of course.…
I am Laslo.
"Yeah, us older guys, who most women find invisible, should HATE, just hate, being found attractive by a young, beautiful woman."
You're living in a fantasy world if you think a young, beautiful girl will find YOU attractive when there are plenty of good-looking, young guys with a full head of hair out there who don't need Viagra to get it up. Don't flatter your old, ugly, past-your-prime self. It ain't gonna happen in this life, so be content with your wife, who certainly feels that she's stuck with the sorry likes of you. She surely knows by now your perverted tendencies and doesn't give a shit that you fantasize about tasty young female morsels that are fortunately out of reach of a dirty old man like yourself.
"He replied that my mom was in his mind's eye the same 18 year old girl he married as a cadet in 1941."
Not me. Judy is older than I am by an insignificant amount. She does not look just the same as when I met her 3 decades ago.
But she remains an intelligent, strong, interesting and alluring woman. I still find myself staring at her multiple times a day. We talk, we argue, we care for each other.
Amazingly enough she still seems to find me attractive too.
Do I find other, including younger (now self-defined as 30 and up), women attractive? You bet. Hard wired in, I suppose.
Would I consider a trade? Not on your life.
We live in a modern society with modern customs and mores, including having the age of 18 as the advent of adulthood. Those modern customs and mores, however, are quite different from the underlying biological realities that have underlain human existence for 99% of the time our species has been around.
Up until fairly recent times, average life expectancy was about thirty years or so. A child who lived until age 5 had a pretty good chance of perhaps living to age 50, but perhaps two-thirds of children didn't live to age 5. That is why human population remained relatively low and population growth remained stagnant up until about the Eighteenth Century, even though women were having several children on average.
They also started early; most of your foremothers were teenage mothers. If life is short and you need to have six babies in order raise two of them to adulthood, then you don't have time to wait around. Also, parents found it better to marry off daughters early so that they couldn't get in trouble before they got a husband. In those societies, an unmarried woman of 18 would be considered a spinster.
Ever wonder why the Jewish bar mitzvah and bat mitzvah rituals take place at age 13 for boys and age 12 for girls (age 13 for Reform Jews)? Or why the Latin American societies have quinceaneras for 15-year-old girls? Because those were the ages in those societies when a child became an adult. Those customs go back further than our modern American society's.
So what's the point of all this? For most of humanity's existence, those fertile teenage girls were considered desirable candidates for marriage, often to older men with prospects and property. Today, they're considered jailbait. Biologically, however, men are still hardwired to be attracted to women who show signs of being healthy and fertile. And that's where those who run afoul of the customs and mores and the law get into trouble.
Surprised by this post, because Boston Bobblehead is usually such a shrewd and scrupulously accurate social commentator.
At 28 I dated a girl who had just turned 21, literally a few days before we met at a Halloween costume ball at the Drake Hotel in Chicago. I'm normally not one for massive parties like that but I'd recently been dumped and decided that I needed some heavy social time.
The first girl I hit on had a boyfriend already, but she introduced me to the young'un, who happened to be her cousin, and was not only quite a bit hotter, but also single and also recently out of a relationship. She was dressed as a tiger, I was dressed as a gladiator. I was actually a bit awkward at first. The girl I approached was a 7, but her younger cousin to whom I found myself talking was a hard 9 (slightly larger breasts would have pushed her right into 10 zone), but luckily I'd been working out for a long time so I looked the part of a gladiator and was able to riff on that for a bit until I found my groove. It helped that this girl couldn't take her hands off my shoulders and arms, nearly swooning when I led her outside for a smoke break. While outside I leaned down to kiss her and she practically jumped up to meet my face. That was the last straw, and only the freezing wind and the police parked across the street kept us from sidewalk copulation.
By the end of the night her striped lip tattoos (temporary ones, of course) were completely rubbed off. She came to my townhouse the following weekend and stayed 3 days, of which we only left the house for brunch the first morning. This girl had lots of energy and was quite eager to please. She was also the slimmest girl I'd ever dated to that point, which enabled some acrobatics that I'd never dreamed of attempting with other girlfriends. I remember turning my cellphone on after she left and discovering 4 voicemails and about two dozen text messages that I'd completely ignored.
We ended things after about two months because she lived almost 90 minutes away and I was introduced to a girl closer to my age who lived nearby that had a crush on me, but she was a great companion for the holidays and a genuinely good person. Part of me still wishes I'd asked her to move in with me, but the time for such regrets is long past. Besides, the girl I moved on to is now my wife, and I'm a very happy man.
TrumpIt has the most obvious and classical case of projection in the world when he talks about other on this blog. It's almost sad. Or, it would be, if it weren't so damn funny.
I don't remember leftists celebrating the Jerry-Shoshonna romance--and I'm a libertarian with a loonnnng memory. (I have Irish Alzheimer's: you forget everything but the grudges.) Me, I didn't celebrate or condemn it. I envied it.
The standard accusation would be "young enough to be his daughter".
In this case, if Seinfeld had a large breasted teenage daughter, she would look like Shoshonna.
I don't remember leftists celebrating the Jerry-Shoshonna romance--and I'm a libertarian with a loonnnng memory. (I have Irish Alzheimer's: you forget everything but the grudges.) Me, I didn't celebrate or condemn it. I envied it.
Sorry for the double post
Screwed again by my new Smartphone.
C'mon William...you're ruining the joke.
exiledonmainstreet said...
My paternal grandfather (born in 1880) was 35 when he married my grandmother, who was 18. His first wife died in childbirth. He had 6 children with my grandmother. Nobody raised an eyebrow about it.
I see a whole lot of examples of that in my extended family tree. An older man with land and/or established profession was a much better catch than an 16 year old farmhand.
Howard Stern on the case in 1994:
It could have been a skit on Seinfeld. Real-life Jerry Seinfeld, comedian, TV star and life observer, was strolling through Central Park one day in May 1993 when he spotted a stranger he now calls “the most wonderful girl in the world.” Seinfeld, then 38, sallied over, made small talk and went away with the telephone number of Shoshanna Lonstein—then 17 and a senior at the private Nightingale-Bamford School in Manhattan.
Seinfeld says it was a simple case of acquaintance-making, with “the age issue,” as he calls it, immediately “forgotten.” Other people, however, didn’t forget it. Howard Stern homed in on the May-August aspect of the relationship when the radio host interviewed his old friend last spring. “So,” Stern said, feigning moral indignation, “you sit in Central Park and have a candy bar on a string and pull it when the girls come?”
Amazingly, Seinfeld, master of his comedy domain, was flustered. “She’s not 17, definitely not,” he initially insisted. Then, returning to the Stern show a month later for another attempt at spin control, he still seemed a bit defensive. “I didn’t realize she was so young,” he said. “This is the only girl I ever went out with who was that young.
I forgot, did Seinfeld and Elvis run for the U.S. Senate?
Without knowing it, of course, you conveniently pointed out why we're calling bullshit on this hit job.
The accuser has now admitted she was 16, not 14 at the time of the alleged incident. That is the age of consent. This is slowly deflating.
"The accuser has now admitted she was 16, not 14 at the time of the alleged incident."
-- ... Wait. If we've got a link to that statement from the accuser... that... that means the WaPo got tricked. Funny how journalists KEEP getting tricked when it comes to publishing accusations about Republicans.
Ann, what's the chance that the GOP could do a Bob Torricelli on Roy Moore? I mean, when the guy turned out suddenly to be de facto unelectable, the NJ Supremes unanimously let the Dems remove him from the ballot and reinstate the incumbent, Frank Lautenberg. No one seems to have even mentioned this possibility; they're all talking write-in candidates. But the precedent is pretty recent, and Luther Strange (who, let's not forget, was Trump's candidate) is the incumbent.
And yet I found a Wapo story from 1994
https://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/lifestyle/1994/12/07/the-reliable-source/5b3ffe9f-c5d4-4511-ad47-87c137d71d47/?utm_term=.b77bb730c923
"The accuser has now admitted she was 16, not 14 at the time of the alleged incident. That is the age of consent. This is slowly deflating."
The dude, Moore, was 32 at the time. Nothing is "deflating." You want that bum in the Senate tells a lot about your bad judgment and character. Mr. Ten Commandments is a hypocrite, liar, phony, and probably a pedophile to boot. He was a judge of the lowest caliber, intellectually, ethically, impartially, etc. who was eventually removed from the bench. He should wear an ankle bracelet to track his movements from one young girl victim to the next. He's a bad hombre, and you're for him. Scandalous! Moore should be forced to wear the scarlet letter "A" for being an ignominious asshole.
One can't help but noticed how the Left is suddenly infantilizing 14, 15 & 16 year old girls when they are fine with abortion without parental consent at 12 yrs. Not to speak of decades sexualizing girls in fashion, movies and teen magazines teaching them oral and anal sex.
We've all seen or known 16 yr olds who a) dress like hookers, b) chase any man within their purview and c) are adults in all but chronological age.
So what it is Feminists; complete freedom to do whatever a girl/woman wishes with their bodies or not?
I personally do not care either way about Moore but the double standard is wearing very thin.
The latest from Gloria Allred; a 5th accuser with this story:
She and Moore were allegedly regulars at a restaurant.
She gets a HS yearbook at age 16.
She goes to the restaurant.
Moore allegedly she's her with yearbook and asks to sign her yearbook.
Moore supposedly signs it, dates it, addresses it.
Moore allegedly then offers her ride home.
She accepts invitation for a ride home.
Moore allegedly then drives her around back and tries to assault her.
She tries to escape, can't, and then Moore, who allegedly left ample evidence in victim's yearbook placing him at the scene with the victim on the date, allegedly warns her to tell no one because they won't believe her, and then lets her go.
...Years go by with ample evidence in victim's yearbook and multiple statewide campaigns and national attention by Moore; and she tells no one of consequence until Gloria Allred appears.
I understand that we are supposed to act based purely on the seriousness of the charge. With my own experience with yearbooks and such, I'm not finding any of this serious.
Did Allred show the Yearbook? I mean, at least here there's a verifiable fact.
At the press conference, Ms Allred passed around photocopies of an old yearbook page. A note in the top right corner, dated Christmas 1977, read: “To a sweeter more beautiful girl I could not say 'Merry Christmas'."
It was signed: "Love, Roy Moore, DA.”
Link.
Alright, I read part of the statement and saw the signature.
Well, let's knock it off. Charge him or don't, but let's not let the witch trial drag on. Time for us to let the truth out. For example: As the DA, his schedule is probably well known. Do they have records of where he was on the date that he signed the book? What about the restaurant's schedule? Any records going that far back?
Fake? Demi Moore 19, kissing a 15 YO
Hah. According to the scan I saw, he not only dated it (12-22-77) he also wrote the place where he signed it (Olde Hickory House). If he did try to assault this woman, then... just wow.
The dude, Moore, was 32 at the time. Nothing is "deflating."
It's deflating because her story is changing. When you change the age from 14 to 16 when something happened, people are going to then question your version of what happened.
I'm not on any side here other than the truth. Right out of the bat, our media, with layers of fact-checkers and editors, didn't question one of the central tenets of her outrageous claims - that she was truly 14 when this happened.
And we all know that 14 year-old girl is a much grabbier headline than 16 year-old girl.
Too good to check, I suppose...
The signature does look close to me; only difference I see on my lazy ten second glance is a difference in date style, but people are radically inconsistent about that.
The woman was very convincing at the press conference.
@Laslo - Many a true word spoken in jest, old man. I say you have been there or thought long about it. But it’s no hanging matter. It’s no capital crime.
More questions: Do schools normally give out yearbooks in the fall? In 1977? In Alabama? At her high school?
Can Moore show he wasn't there? If he can, that defeats the accusation. If he can't, it moves forward.
The problem, of course being, that 1977 is so long ago, that all we may have is this December year book as evidence, since all the other records are probably gone by now.
" Nothing is "deflating." You want that bum in the Senate tells a lot about your bad judgment and character."
Trumpit is having a panic attack because his story slowly going down the tubes.
His hatred of all religion is all that left to rant about.
You creep.
"Can Moore show he wasn't there? If he can, that defeats the accusation. If he can't, it moves forward."
A big part of the narrative is that she was under age. That has gone away.
The Congress that welcomed Gerry Studds who raped a page and Barney Franks whose gay lover ran a whorehouse out of their apartment has little to posture about.
Michael K: Talking about the newest accuser, who gives us a date and time, thanks to Moore's alleged signature in her year book.
OK. It's hard to keep up with the GOPe panic attacks.
Plus trumpit's freakout.
The girl ended up not marrying Seinfeld, a billionaire, but married another billionaire, Joshua Gruss, heir of a Wall Street fortune.
Trumpit is having a panic attack because his story slowly going down the tubes.
I remember when a comment about a pubic hair on a can of coke was enough evidence for some to ruin a man's career...
Matthew Sablan said...
Michael K: Talking about the newest accuser, who gives us a date and time, thanks to Moore's alleged signature in her year book.
11/13/17, 4:12 PM
Huh? Signing yearbook proves he attacked her?
No. But it gives us a date and time to investigate. If, for example, it turns out he wasn't even at the diner on Dec. 22, 1977, then he's in the clear. If it turns out the yearbooks weren't published until the end of the year, then the signature becomes unreliable.
It gives us a point to start an investigation from; it existing isn't enough to prove he did anything.
Then, even if we CAN prove he signed it, that doesn't prove the assault. But, it does make him look a lot less trustworthy, since some thirty year old dude going to a restaurant to hit on the high school waitresses is skeezy.
Has Bo Derek been asked to weigh in?
The girl ended up not marrying Seinfeld, a billionaire, but married another billionaire, Joshua Gruss, heir of a Wall Street fortune.
And is now divorced from him. So any of you billionaires can have a go.
Someone should mention potential future CA Governor is dating a 19 year old. "Mayor McHottie's New Girlfriend -- Half His Age"
http://abcnews.go.com/US/story?id=2581600&page=1
"You're living in a fantasy world if you think a young, beautiful girl will find YOU attractive when there are plenty of good-looking, young guys with a full head of hair out there who don't need Viagra to get it up. Don't flatter your old, ugly, past-your-prime self. It ain't gonna happen in this life, so be content with your wife, who certainly feels that she's stuck with the sorry likes of you. She surely knows by now your perverted tendencies and doesn't give a shit that you fantasize about tasty young female morsels that are fortunately out of reach of a dirty old man like yourself. "
Wow, bitter and poor reading comprehension.
You'd be quite a catch Strumpit.
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