November 2, 2017

"Allahu akbar. It’s Arabic for 'God is greatest.' Muslims, an eccentric tribe with over a billion members..."

"... say it several times in our five daily prayers. The phrase is also a convenient way to express just the right kind of gratitude in any situation. I say 'Allahu akbar' out loud more than 100 times a day.... A common, benign phrase used daily by Muslims, especially during prayer, is now understood as code for 'It was terrorism.' It’s easy to forget that language is often hijacked and weaponized by violent extremists. Some people yell 'Allahu akbar' and others chant 'heritage,' 'culture' and 'white pride.' The preferred slogans of a killer don’t make much difference to the people whose lives are lost or their loved ones, but they make all the difference in Americans’ collective understanding of a tragedy.... If only the hurricane that devastated Puerto Rico, leaving American citizens in desperate need of power, food or water, could have yelled, 'Allahu akbar,' triggering that kind of tough response. Perhaps our president would have been able to see the storm as evil. Perhaps he would have been energized by a 'them versus us' rage to insist on swift action to repair the damage."

From "I Want ‘Allahu Akbar’ Back," by playwright/lawyer Wajahat Alinov (NYT).

ADDED: If it were possible to fight a hurricane with a proactive military strike, we'd totally do that. And most of us don't particularly care about the enemy's ideology except as a way to figure out how and where it will attack so we can fight it better. We don't need to feel there is "evil." Understanding the religion behind Islamist terrorist attacks isn't that different from understanding the science of how a hurricane behaves. We want to protect our physical security. Most Americans — the vast majority, I think — prefer to let other people have their own religious beliefs. We're not about ferreting out heresy and blasphemy. The American values are freedom of religion, individual autonomy, and keeping government out of religion. Go enjoy your freedom and let us enjoy ours.

I'm absolutely not buying the argument that we care less about hurricanes than terrorist attacks and that the difference is some antipathy to Islam. We don't have a way to stop a hurricane. We can only clean up and make repairs after the disaster. The same is not true with terrorism, because human beings with minds that can be understood are plotting and planning and can be stopped before they strike. We don't just wait and then do an extra-good job of dealing with the destruction. There is evidence of what other people are thinking in part because they use words. It's sad that "Allahu akbar" is among the words that help us protect ourselves from attacks, and I'm glad Alinov cares enough to feel bad about the words he'd like only to feel good about.

146 comments:

zipity said...

" Perhaps our president would have been able to see the storm as evil. Perhaps he would have been energized by a 'them versus us' rage to insist on swift action to repair the damage."

Canard much? Trump hasn't completely restored Puerto Rico to it's pre-hurricane state yet because he doesn't want to. Not because the devastation was historically unprecedented.

I am so tired of these lame-ass attacks. This is how we got Trump. This is how we'll get 8 years of Trump.

FWBuff said...

Please stop taking God's name in vain.

rehajm said...

We have you outnumbered so stop resisting.

AlbertAnonymous said...

Absolute garbage!

JPS said...

"If only the hurricane that devastated Puerto Rico, leaving American citizens in desperate need of power, food or water, could have yelled, 'Allahu akbar,' triggering that kind of tough response. Perhaps our president would have been able to see the storm as evil."

If only Mr. Alinov were as angry at the people who've given Allahu Akbar! such an unfair connotation as he is at President Trump.

traditionalguy said...

But what is the protocol for only chanting the beautiful supremacist shout of " allahu ackbar"? Is it only done at beheadings of hands tied behind their backs infidels with Muhammed's swords or does it also get chanted during wife beatings and slow Gays stonings to death?

There is so much to learn from our new overlords.

Matthew Blaine said...

It means "our god is the greatest," as in, "Our god is more powerful than your god." It's a statement of religious supremacy, because infidels may not utter the word, "Allah."

Ray said...

Some days I feel like the NYT is stealing stories from the onion.

Howard said...

Did Trump pay this guy to say these things?

$9,000,000,000 Write Off said...

Poor guy, I feel bad that Mr. Alinov has been tragically victimized by the villains created by his imagination.

Nonapod said...

The problem I have with a lot of moderate Muslims is their evident lack of shame toward the behavior of their coreligionists, beyond just mouthing some platitudes at least. It's as if they expect everyone to assimilate to their way of thinking. Probably because they do.

MikeR said...

https://www.thereligionofpeace.com/pages/articles/opinion-polls.aspx
A minute of googling.
Stop lying to us.

Birches said...

Wow. Just wow.

Mark Larson said...

If I am in a public place and hear some guy loudly say AA, I know it is time to beat feet out of there.

Michael K said...

"Muslims are worried about an Islamophobic backlash to tomorrow's terror attack"

Birches said...

My spouse told me last night he was whole heartedly voting for Trump's reelection. He voted for Gary Johnson previously. If I sent him this article, he might donate money.

SDaly said...

What Matthew Blaine said.

Ferananidinande said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
David Docetad said...

That's how you get more Trump.

Ferananidinande said...

"I Want ‘Allahu Akbar’ Back" said the terrorist sympathizer.

I'm confident enough that my invisible monster can beat up your invisible monster that I don't need to brainwash myself by repeating it 100 times a day.

rehajm said...

If Puerto Rico is the preferred leftie backstop territory the Risk™ board is looking good for team Trump.

exiledonmainstreet said...

As Mark Steyn noted last night, if a man ran into a NYC restaurant where Cuomo and DeBlasio were dining and shouted "Jesus saves!" management would haul the guy out and everyone would have a good laugh about the loony Christianist. If a man ran in shouting "Allahu Akbar," they'd duck under the table as fast as anybody else.

rhhardin said...

It's an organized crime slogan.

Betray us at your peril.

anti-de Sitter space said...

Obviously completely non-terrorist, good people Muslims are constantly saying 'Allahu Akbar' as part of their religious rituals. That's why it' important for them all to convert to Christianity. Then they won't need to say that any more. Plus this will help to enlist recruits re the war re Xmas.

Problem solved.

You're welcome.

orthodoc said...

The people who've been shot, bombed, run over, and stabbed by stalwarts of the Religion of Pieces want their lives back.

tim maguire said...

The petty complaints of this obscure entrainment figure remind me of, well, every liberal response to disaster when a Republican is in office--all that's needed to make it right is a wave of the president's magic wand, but the evil Rethuglican is cheap with the pixie dust.

Gahrie said...

Perhaps he would have been energized by a 'them versus us' rage to insist on swift action to repair the damage."

Fuck off.

Every Puerto Rican leader except one Leftwing Moonbat glory hound has praised President Trump for his efforts in Puerto Rico.

David Begley said...

Islam needs to seriously reform itself but it never will. The Sunni v. Shia war has been going on for hundreds of years. Just like the American Catholics v. Lutherans. Expect Catholic and Jesuit Creighton to invade Midland Lutheran College next week. Burn and pillage.

Gahrie said...

The problem I have with a lot of moderate Muslims is their evident lack of shame toward the behavior of their coreligionists, beyond just mouthing some platitudes at least.

They're not ashamed.

It's as if they expect everyone to assimilate to their way of thinking. Probably because they do.

Their God demands it.

Ron Winkleheimer said...

That's was pretty stupid. First of all, the government is doing everything it can to help Puerto Rico. And hurricanes aren't evil, they are natural disasters. The screed is basically restating that not all Muslims are terrorists and therefore, nothing can be done and even if something could, we shouldn't. I give it a 3 out of 10 on the rhetoric scale.

Yesterday I was listening to the news conference where it was stated that NYC police had briefed people who rented trucks on what to look for so that they would not rent one to a jihadist. I snorted. Likes there's any chance somebody is going to refuse to rent a truck to someone because of how they look.

LilyBart said...

With a living language (a langue in regular use), the meaning of words and phases change over time. They just do, and you cannot control this. For example: "Making love" used to mean flirting. "Gay" used to mean a happy and fun attitude. There are lots of examples, actually.

But this is the way things are. When events and common use change the meanings of words and phrases, you can't just demand the old meaning back. It doesn't work that way.

LilyBart said...

langue = language. Sorry.

anti-de Sitter space said...

"If it were possible to fight a hurricane with a proactive military strike, we'd totally do that."

What if science tells us that human influenced climate change is resulting in worsening environment re humans living their lives? Althouse's logic falls apart re reality.

Bob Boyd said...

Porn for Trump haters.

Michael K said...

It is significant, if ignored by the left, that "the Golden Age of Islam" was 1400 years ago.

Harun al Rashid died in 809.

His death began a civil war and Islam never regained its glory, such as it was.

THey did not realize how backward they were until Napoleon arrived in Egypt in 1798.

jaydub said...

His name is Wajahat Ali, not Alinov. If his name was Alinov, Mueller would have already lumped this into the collusion investigation and Trump would have been duly charged with the crime.

rhhardin said...

Drawing Mohammad is a good test. They don't do it but don't care if you do. Then they might be assimilable. Otherwise not.

Michael K said...

"Althouse's logic falls apart re reality."

Says the believer in climate magic.

News flash, Britain will have coldest winter in 5 years.

anti-de Sitter space said...

"Says the believer in climate magic."

Climate magic? http://www.moroni10.com/jesus-creation-earth.jpg

gg6 said...

ALTHOUSE says: "I'm glad Alinov cares enough to feel bad about the words he'd like only to feel good about."
I disagree. I dont think this 'playwright/lawyer/ASSHOLE' "feels bad" at all - he simply resents those who correctly and justifiably identify the homicidal tendencies his 'prayer' embodies.

wildswan said...

No one I know has had "White Pride" hijacked from them. None of us has said it even once as a slogan. But to many Democrats, we are "racist" based on the color of our skin, "evil" based on out party affiliation and "deplorable" based on opposition to Hillary Clinton. And now we have taken away "Allahu Akbar" from New York Moslems and destroyed Puerto Rico in a hissy fit. Really what we are is silently taking it all in.

Gahrie said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
robother said...

Critical reasoning is about as scarce in Muslims as curiosity about other cultures. Inviting large numbers of Muslims into open societies is literally suicidal.

Gahrie said...

What if science tells us that human influenced climate change is resulting in worsening environment re humans living their lives


In reality, there are more humans than ever before, with a higher standard of living than ever before today. Worldwide poverty and hunger are at all time lows.

The Left simply cannot accept that things are going well for humanity and insists that the end is near! Doom! Doom and Gloom!

The only chance for survival is to give us your wealth and do what we tell you to do!

If they could get away with demanding that we throw virgins into volcanos, they would

Jupiter said...

Islamic Supremacist.

Ron Winkleheimer said...

Its pretty simple. If Christians were going around blowing stuff up and beheading people and running them down in trucks, for the stated purpose imposing the Christian religion, pretty much everyday and all over the world, people would start looking askance at Christians in general, even if the people carry out the terrorist acts were a small percentage of Christians. They would also expect the Christians who didn't support such activity to help put it to an end as quickly as possible and not whine about the unfairness of it all. I know that most Muslims are not terrorists. So what? What is your point?

Sebastian said...

Enjoying all the Muzzie comments, so slightly OT:

"We can only clean up and make repairs after the disaster." Actually, no. We can harden structures, limit development in flood-prone areas, make people in risky regions pay higher insurance, and refuse to pay again and again for preventable damage. Tell New Orleans that we'll pay for nationally important structures, and nothing more. Etc.

"We don't just wait and then do an extra-good job of dealing with the destruction." Puerto Rico just waited, incompetent in preparing as in everything else, while amassing debt and living beyond its means, counting on bailouts, then not doing an extra-good job.

DKWalser said...

What if science tells us that human influenced climate change is resulting in worsening environment re humans living their lives? Althouse's logic falls apart re reality.

Uh, no, her logic doesn't fall apart. There is a difference between the steps necessary to control the environment (assuming for the sake of this discussion that we can) and a military strike. Control of greenhouse gas emissions would require substantial control of each individual, resulting in a substantial loss of personal liberty. You might be willing to sacrifice your personal liberty for some sense of greater safety from natural disasters; others aren't as willing. None of these tradeoffs would be required for a military strike against a storm (again, assuming such a thing were possible).

Similarly, we could do a better job of catching criminals and thereby reducing crime if we just did away with requirements like warrants, protections against self-incrimination, trial by jury, and due process. We don't do away with those things, not because we don't care about crime, but because we care about protecting the innocent from wrongful punishment than we care about punishing the guilty.

rhhardin said...

Islam is tribal ethics. It doesn't play well with the enlightenment, which outperforms it severely.

Either a levelling or a separation will happen, separation being unlikely owing to modern weapons.

Sebastian said...

"Some people yell 'Allahu akbar' and others chant 'heritage,' 'culture' and 'white pride.'" Yeah, sure, white pride, like a billion people, hundreds of times a day, to express joy and gratitude, and stuff. Sure, white pride, the sort of thing wild and crazy white men yelled in hundreds of terrorist attacks around the world.

Henry said...

The preferred slogans of a killer don’t make much difference to the people whose lives are lost or their loved ones

False premise.

TwilightofLiberty.com said...

I want rainbows back but we can't always get what we want.

FullMoon said...

I worked for some Muslims prior to 9/11.
They said "Allahu akbar". a lot when things were going well.
They used it to mean fantastic,, wonderful, great, etc.
Finally asked what it meant as I had no clue.

Kind of takes on a different meaning when used during murder spree.

BTW, during Iran hostage crisis, the several Iranians I knew suddenly became "Persians"

Henry said...

Oh it's the equivalency smorgasbord on the menu again. The food is awful, but the portions are big.

hawkeyedjb said...

Some people yell 'Allahu akbar' and others chant 'heritage,' 'culture' and 'white pride.'

While they're slaughtering customers at a nightclub, running over people with trucks, deploying suicide bombers at concerts, beheading prisoners... people shout "heritage" while doing those things? Really? That's been an underreported phenomenon.

Rance Fasoldt said...

"UK weather latest: Britain to face coldest winter in five years, say meteorologists" - more incontrovertible evidence of Global Warming.

Henry said...

I think that the author's criticism about what President Trump says in response to different crises is valid. Trump's visceral, spoken reactions are often haphazard and inapt. But I don't really care about what President Trump says. I care what he does. If what he says and what he does align, I'll lend my attention. Likewise for terrorists.

anti-de Sitter space said...

DK,

The point of fighting terrorists is that the terrorists are doin' stuff that impacts other people's personal liberty. Likewise, you don't get to dump poison in my air and water, you're F-in w/ my personal liberty. Logically, both you and the terrorists must be restrained from attacking me (hence the Alt-fail).

Henry said...

Likewise, you don't get to dump poison in my air and water, you're F-in w/ my personal liberty.

Fucking volcanos.

William said...

To be fair, it should be noted that Muslims kill each other at a much brisker rate than they kill infidels. You would think that introspective Muslims would ask themselves about what they're doing wrong. I'm always reflecting on my white privilege and toxic masculinity in order to become a better person. Perhaps Muslims should ponder what about their religion causes so many of the faithful to become mass murderers.

Kansas City said...

There is a bit of truth here. The MSM has, in a strange case of fake news/liberal bias, translated "Allahu Akbar" as "God is Great," when as the guy here indicates, it really means "Allah is greatest." I don't even know if the start of this fake news was innocent based on ignorance, but it significantly diminishes the Islamic aspect of terrorism to mischaracterize a Muslim saying of the superiority of Allah and Islam over all over Gods and things into a banal non-threatening "God is Great."

It is very hard to understand why liberal bias is pro-Muslim, when Islam is a decidedly anti-liberal religion (other than the power of the state).

exiledonmainstreet said...

"Likewise, you don't get to dump poison in my air and water, you're F-in w/ my personal liberty."

Hey, PB, take it up with the EPA:


http://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2015/08/10/431223703/epa-says-it-released-3-million-gallons-of-contaminated-water-into-river

William said...

Communism routinely produced leaders like Stalin, Mao, Couseceau, the Kim family, Pol Pot, et al. Western artists and intellectuals routinely took up their cause and never once wondered if Marxism might have something to do with all those famines and mass graves. Perhaps we shouldn't be too hard on Muslims. They're no more deluded than many of our own artists and intellectuals.

grackle said...

Some helpful websites for the pro-Islamic immigration folks:

A list of nations and their percentage of Muslims in the population.

And the State Department’s Country Reports on Human Rights Practices, here.

The task is to find any Muslim-majority country that has a positive record on human rights. I tried myself several months ago but I gave up before I checked all of them. There are some I didn’t get to. Maybe you’ll get lucky …

My conclusion is that Islam is incompatible with freedom. My reading of history confirms what the above websites point to. If you like freedom you need to limit your Muslim population.

Recently I’ve wondered what the exact percentage of Muslim population in a society is required for the triggering of the repression of freedom. 40%? 30%? Less? Some relevant data is on the sites listed above but there are a lot of variables that come with such a precise analysis. Levels of repression would have to be established and accounted for, cultural factors considered, etc. Subjective crap = subjective results.

exiledonmainstreet said...

That was good government poison though. Only private companies dump the really, really bad poison.

mccullough said...

He sounds like John Brennan explaining the term "jihad." Best of luck to him wresting the term from its association with terrorists. Hindus are still trying to reclaim the swastika from the Nazis.

Jupiter said...

It occurs to me, that what the Muzzies are doing, is what used to be called "pogroms" in Europe, and "lynching" in the US. That is, occasional acts of terror directed against a population to instill a constant level of fear, so as to keep that population under control. The remarkable thing is that Muzzies do this when they are in the minority. European Jews and American blacks did not (except for Nat Turner) attack the majority populations they lived among. I think the reason for this is that Europeans and Americans are now sufficiently law-abiding, and our law enforcement agencies sufficiently effective, that the majority can be prevented from carrying out coordinated attacks on the ghetto-dwellers. But they are completely unable to control the violence of the minorities.

Gahrie said...

Most Americans — the vast majority, I think — prefer to let other people have their own religious beliefs.

Yeah...pretty much everyone except the Muslims and the atheists.

We're not about ferreting out heresy and blasphemy.

True.

The American values are freedom of religion, individual autonomy, and keeping government out of religion.

Which is why a religion based on eradicating all other religions, enslaving it's adherents and creating a government based on religious law is incompatible with American culture and society.

Go enjoy your freedom and let us enjoy ours.

Their God demands otherwise.

Gahrie said...

My conclusion is that Islam is incompatible with freedom.

The first clue is that Islam means submission.



rhhardin said...

God is bigly.

Gahrie said...

Perhaps Muslims should ponder what about their religion causes so many of the faithful to become mass murderers.

What's to ponder? Their religion explicitly demands and encourages it.

whitney said...

That's incredibly disingenuous. Go ahead and translate the entire prayer that they say 5 times a day. They're not asking for forgiveness and repenting, I can tell you that

hawkeyedjb said...

"It is very hard to understand why liberal bias is pro-Muslim..."

Leftists understand that Islam (and a great many Muslims) are fundamentally anti-Western and opposed to Western concepts of individual freedom. It doesn't matter that they come at the question from different directions, they end up at the same place, hence liberal/leftist admiration and support for Islam.

Dickin'Bimbos@Home said...

what Grackle said at 12:00

Sadly, the only response you get from the hive mind left is: "You're a racist!"

The hive mind left would rather have their throats slit by Islamic Supremacists than admit it might be wise to limit their entry into our country.

Jupiter said...

"It's sad that "Allahu akbar" is among the words that help us protect ourselves from attacks,"

What's sad about it? Is it "sad" that when you see some asshole with gang tattoos all over his face, you know to stay the Hell away from him? What's sad is that our government hasn't got its shit together to grab his useless ass and crucify him.

I Have Misplaced My Pants said...

I don't care what Wajahat Alinov wants.

Jupiter said...

"Recently I’ve wondered what the exact percentage of Muslim population in a society is required for the triggering of the repression of freedom. 40%? 30%? Less?"

Has it occurred to you that maybe the required percentage is 0.00001? If not, go ask the gal who thought up "Draw Muhammad" day. If you can find her. Our government informed her that they could not protect her from our Islamic rulers, and so she quit her job and is in hiding.

I Have Misplaced My Pants said...

I want to not see my sixth grade daughter's sweet little Muslim friend covered head to wrist to toe in black blankets.

We can't always get what we want.

mockturtle said...

Exactly so, grackle. Muslims do not desire freedom and democracy. They migrate to countries that have these features so that these freedoms can be used in their favor to further their agenda. Make no mistake about that.

Robert Cook said...

"Exactly so, grackle. Muslims do not desire freedom and democracy. They migrate to countries that have these features so that these freedoms can be used in their favor to further their agenda. Make no mistake about that."

I'm sure the millions (billions?) of ordinary, everyday Muslims living here in America and all around the world, raising families, working jobs, watching tv at night, arguing with their spouses and disobedient children, planning vacations, etc., would be very surprised to hear that they are all secretly trying to further a secret agenda to take over the rest of the world and kill all infidels.

Jupiter said...

Cookie said...
"I'm sure the millions (billions?) of ordinary, everyday Muslims living here in America and all around the world... "

So you don't know how many of them there are, to within a factor of a thousand or so, but you know what they're thinking, and it is nothing to be concerned about.

Gahrie said...

I'm sure the millions (billions?) of ordinary, everyday Muslims living here in America and all around the world, raising families, working jobs, watching tv at night, arguing with their spouses and disobedient children, planning vacations, etc., would be very surprised to hear that they are all secretly trying to further a secret agenda to take over the rest of the world and kill all infidels.

They probably would.

What they would not be surprised about are the open demands of Allah that Islam be spread all over the world and that all unbelievers, including infidels, be converted, enslaved or killed.

exiledonmainstreet said...

I get that the Left allies itself with the Muslims because both want the downfall of Western Civilization. What I don't get is why Leftists think such an occurrence would result in Muslims happily coexisting with gays, transsexuals, slut walks, abortions and all other manifestations of the 60's sexual revolution.

All I can think of is that the champions of the sexual revolution were, at heart, more interested in undermining Judeo-Christian mores than in actually increasing pleasure. I think it was Jacques Barzun who said that every leftwing revolution starts out promoting sexual liberation and ends up practicing repression once in power, since the sexual urge is too primal to be left uncontrolled by the State. Nobody would call Soviet Russia or Mao's China sensual delights (although the leaders certainly had their fun.) However, I don't think your run-of-the-mill leftist grasps that.

Robert Cook said...

"What they would not be surprised about are the open demands of Allah...?"

Yes, and how many self-professed Christians follow the commands of Jesus?

Anthony said...

If someone drive a truck through a crowd outside a mosque, shouting "Deus Vult" or "Praise the Lord", we'd know it was an unmistakable case of Christian terrorism. Just like shouting "Allah Acbar", it's a declaration of motive. The terrorist wants is to know this was done in the name of Islam.

The reason we don't dive under the table when sometime starts shouting "Jesus Saves" in public, but we do when it's "Allah Akbar" is because Christianity and Islam are *not* equal.

Robert Cook said...

"I get that the Left allies itself with the Muslims because both want the downfall of Western Civilization."

(sic)

exiledonmainstreet said...


"I'm sure the millions (billions?) of ordinary, everyday Muslims living here in America and all around the world, raising families, working jobs, watching tv at night, arguing with their spouses and disobedient children, planning vacations, etc., would be very surprised to hear that they are all secretly trying to further a secret agenda to take over the rest of the world and kill all infidels."

Even if only 10% or 5% of Muslims are active jihadists, that's an awful lot of people.

The rest? Well as Nonapod correctly pointed out:

"The problem I have with a lot of moderate Muslims is their evident lack of shame toward the behavior of their coreligionists, beyond just mouthing some platitudes at least."

Robert, what benefit do you think Muslims bring to America? Anything besides hummus and pita bread? Oh and be careful on those NYC bikepaths. Those Argentinians cycling back from a class reunion didn't think they had anything to worry about either until the second the truck hit them. But it's a small price to pay for tolerance and diversity, right?

Jupiter said...

exiledonmainstreet said...

"However, I don't think your run-of-the-mill leftist grasps that."

No kidding. Your run-of-the-mill Leftist is more concerned with things that don't concern him than with the things that do. This is because he takes the latter for granted. There will always be supermarkets full of delicious food and drink for him to enjoy at low prices. His children will go to lovely schools in beautiful neighborhoods where crime is practically nonexistent. Of course. Duh, even. Now, what are we going to do about all those unfortunate Syrian refugees? I know! Let's bring them here to live with us!

exiledonmainstreet said...

Robert Cook said...
"What they would not be surprised about are the open demands of Allah...?"

Yes, and how many self-professed Christians follow the commands of Jesus?


What Allah calls for in the Koran and what Jesus calls for are two entirely different things.

I am tired of the false equivalences made by people who appear to know nothing about either religion.

mockturtle said...

I'm sure the millions (billions?) of ordinary, everyday Muslims living here in America and all around the world, raising families, working jobs, watching tv at night, arguing with their spouses and disobedient children, planning vacations, etc., would be very surprised to hear that they are all secretly trying to further a secret agenda to take over the rest of the world and kill all infidels.

Cookie, how many Muslims do you know well? Even nice, peaceful Muslims like the ones I know will admit, when being honest, to belief in sharia law and jihad and ultimate Islalmic domination. No, that doesn't mean killing all the kafirs but it does mean that we kafirs will be under their domination.

Robert Cook said...

"If someone drive a truck through a crowd outside a mosque, shouting "Deus Vult" or "Praise the Lord", we'd know it was an unmistakable case of Christian terrorism."

Perhaps. In any case, I wouldn't assume it was someone acting to further the secret agenda of all (or even most) Christians. I would see the perpetrator as a disturbed person who is using his religion as a self-justifying basis for his disturbed drive to commit violence.

This is because most people I know and grew up with are Christians, or "Christians." Which is to say, I know how many of them don't know shit about the religious faith they purport to believe in, and how few of them live their lives motivated by or attentive to their purported religious faith.

I'm guessing it's pretty much the same among Muslims.

All of the hysterical talk of "Muslims" as a mass horde united in one cause to sweep away all but their own is simply a childish, fear-driven result of ignorance and its progeny, bigotry.

Robert Cook said...

"Robert, what benefit do you think Muslims bring to America?"

I have no idea and have never thought in that way about it and don't care. After all, what benefit do Christians or Hindus or Buddhists or Jews or Kiwanis bring to America?

Gahrie said...

I'm guessing it's pretty much the same among Muslims.

You're guessing wrong.

Gahrie said...

"What they would not be surprised about are the open demands of Allah...?"

Yes, and how many self-professed Christians follow the commands of Jesus?


The difference is, in Christian communities your neighbors won't kill you for not following the commands of Jesus.

Christianity also believes in free will..Islam does not. Islam explicitly demands that you submit to Allah and obey his commands.

Robert Cook said...

"You're guessing wrong."

I'm sure you know better. (sic)

exiledonmainstreet said...

"This is because most people I know and grew up with are Christians, or "Christians." Which is to say, I know how many of them don't know shit about the religious faith they purport to believe in, and how few of them live their lives motivated by or attentive to their purported religious faith.

I'm guessing it's pretty much the same among Muslims."

You are comparing your experiences in the secularized West with the beliefs of people in decidedly non-secularized Muslim majority countries?

That comment confirms my belief that many leftists don't take the threat of Islam seriously because they think Muslims think just like wishy-washy Methodists in Iowa or lapsed Catholics in Boston. It's a peculiarly provincial and narrow outlook. There are millions in the Muslim world who take their religion so seriously they would be willing to die for it, and some who are more than happy to kill for it. A better - though still not perfectly accurate - comparison would be comparing 21st century Muslims with 11th Century Christians, not with 21st Century ones.

Lyle Smith said...

Another dummy.

Matt said...

Haven't we been hearing something similar to this about the word "jihad"? You know, that it means internal struggle or something. Next, some westernized Muslim is going to tell us how beheading is actually caring, merciful way to take a life. Because the crusades probably.

A beneficial side effect of a Muslim ban is that we won't have to listen to this sort of half-assed Arabic linguistic analysis and Koranic exegesis any more.

Rabel said...

Ali:

"Last night, as breathless news coverage of the phrase the suspect uttered repeated on a loop, I took my children trick-or-treating in the Virginia suburbs."

Bad Muslim. Bad.

There are also a small number of Christian sects which disapprove of Halloween. They are considered to be out of the mainstream by almost all other Christians as is clear from the widespread celebrations of the holiday.

But note that the objection from the Imam is not of the evil of celebrating the Satanical aspects of Halloween but rather that that celebration is evidence of adopting the practices of non-Muslims. It is primarily an anti-assimilationist objection, not a religious one.

If Ali is telling the truth, he is a sinner and a traitor to his religion. He should watch his back if he ever wanders out of suburban Virginia.

exiledonmainstreet said...

After all, what benefit do Christians or Hindus or Buddhists or Jews or Kiwanis bring to America?

11/2/17, 1:47 PM

Plenty, because they are content to live peacefully with others who are not Christians or Hindus or Buddhists or Jews or Kiwanis. That's a big benefit.

I should have phrased my question differently. Are Muslim contributions to the country so unique and irreplaceable that they overweigh the risk of encouraging large numbers of them to emigrate here, despite the certainty that some of them sympathize with terrorists and may be terrorists themselves?

Robert Cook said...

The difference is, in Christian communities your neighbors won't kill you for not following the commands of Jesus. (sic)

exiledonmainstreet said...

And Robert Cook pulls the usual disingenuous leftist trick of pretending that Christianity has not evolved from medieval times and the wars of religion that followed the Reformation. mockturtle and I have our disagreements about Catholic dogma, but neither of us want to burn each other at the stake.

Shit, Robert, one second you're telling us the Christians you grew up with didn't take religion all that seriously (and so it somehow follows that Muslims don't either) and the next minute, Christian communities are filled with Torquemadas.

As I said, the better comparison is not Christianity now and Islam now, but Islam now and Christianity in the 11th century. Robert, it's not the 11th century.

Rabel said...

To put it in simpler terms -

The only "good" Muslim is a "bad" Muslim.

Robert Cook said...

"And Robert Cook pulls the usual disingenuous leftist trick of pretending that Christianity has not evolved from medieval times and the wars of religion that followed the Reformation."

And you purport that the billions of Muslims in the world today are all un-evolved and all subscribe to a violent, primitive, zealous form of their faith that drives them all to participate in or support the murder of heretics and infidels.

Robert Cook said...

Also, if you read through the whole list I linked to, not all of the Christian atrocities described are from long ago and far away.

James Garrett said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
kevino said...

"And if numerous terrorists and suicide bombers were shouting 'Roll Tide!', we'd be asking "What's up with Alabama". -- Iowahawk

Bad Lieutenant said...

Jupiter said...
It occurs to me, that what the Muzzies are doing, is what used to be called "pogroms" in Europe, and "lynching" in the US. That is, occasional acts of terror directed against a population to instill a constant level of fear, so as to keep that population under control. The remarkable thing is that Muzzies do this when they are in the minority. European Jews and American blacks did not (except for Nat Turner) attack the majority populations they lived among. I think the reason for this is that Europeans and Americans are now sufficiently law-abiding, and our law enforcement agencies sufficiently effective, that the majority can be prevented from carrying out coordinated attacks on the ghetto-dwellers. But they are completely unable to control the violence of the minorities.

11/2/17, 12:05 PM



Google "razzia"

exiledonmainstreet said...

"And you purport that the billions of Muslims in the world today are all un-evolved and all subscribe to a violent, primitive, zealous form of their faith that drives them all to participate in or support the murder of heretics and infidels."

No, Robert, that is not what I said. I said this:

"Even if only 10% or 5% of Muslims are active jihadists, that's an awful lot of people."

Most won't kill you; however, a sizable number favor Sharia being implemented in Western countries:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1510866/Poll-reveals-40pc-of-Muslims-want-sharia-law-in-UK.html

50% of British Muslims believe homosexuality should be illegal. 47% think gays should not be allowed to teach.

If a poll showed that 50% of American Christians wanted to recriminalize homosexuality, the left would scream nonstop.

exiledonmainstreet said...

And Robert, if you can come up with a good way of ensuring that those 5% or 10% of Muslims who are itching to kill in the name of Allah are not allowed entrance, please let me know.

grackle said...

I would see the perpetrator as a disturbed person who is using his religion as a self-justifying basis for his disturbed drive to commit violence.

A near-perfect definition of an Islamic terrorist.

Jupiter said...

Robert Cook said...

"I have no idea and have never thought in that way about it and don't care. After all, what benefit do Christians or Hindus or Buddhists or Jews or Kiwanis bring to America?"

OK, Cookie, let's try an easier one. What benefit do you think Muzzies bring to the shitholes they already infest? If you think Syrians make good neighbors, I understand real estate is very reasonably-priced there right now. Are you maybe thinking that the call to prayer is the prettiest sound on Earth?

Gahrie said...

And you purport that the billions of Muslims in the world today are all un-evolved and all subscribe to a violent, primitive, zealous form of their faith that drives them all to participate in or support the murder of heretics and infidels.

Billions? No...Millions yes. And the billions are willing to allow the millions to act on their beliefs.

Where is this non-violent, non-primitive, non-zealous form of Islam based?

Gahrie said...

I'm sure you know better.

About Islam? Definitely.

Jupiter said...

exiledonmainstreet said...

"50% of British Muslims believe homosexuality should be illegal. 47% think gays should not be allowed to teach."

You have to wonder about that 3%...

Kirk Parker said...

William,

"I'm always reflecting on my white privilege and toxic masculinity in order to become a better person."

The hell you are.

(Hint: reflecting on those imaginary sins does literally nothing toward moving you to become a better person.)



Grackle,

You're off by an order of magnitude. I give you France at 8% and the UK at 5%.


Jupiter,

" our government hasn't got its shit together to grab his useless ass and crucify him."


Whoa... Kratman, is that you???

Wilbur said...

Cook, you are a disingenuous, enabling fool.

You Leftists are the first ones they'll come after, given a chance. But maybe you'll enjoy getting your throat sawed in two? Or maybe you'll discover the joys of crucifixion? Or is having your friends and relatives slaughtered by being run over in a truck something you don't find so objectionable?

Your enabling Leftist friends in Europe are now discovering the joys of multiculturalism with their Muslim friends. We don't aim to let that happen here.

Robert Cook said...

"No, Robert, that is not what I said. I said this:

'Even if only 10% or 5% of Muslims are active jihadists, that's an awful lot of people.'"


But how do you know if the percentage of active jihadists are even that high? Perhaps they constitute only 1% or 0.01% or even 0.001% of Muslims in the world.

Are you really afraid of being touched by Islamic terrorism? I'm not, despite my having seen it close hand more than once. I know, statistically, the likelihood of my (or of any American) being a victim of Islamic terrorism is infinitesimally small.

Robert Cook said...

"A near-perfect definition of an Islamic terrorist."

Yes, and I don't think an Islamic terrorist represents all or most Muslims.

Rabel said...

"the likelihood of my (or of any American) being a victim of Islamic terrorism is infinitesimally small."

Past results are no guarantee of future performance.

Jupiter said...

"Are you really afraid of being touched by Islamic terrorism?"

Cookie, what about the gal who started Draw Muhammad Day? The Muzzies put her in a box, and that box is still locked. You're OK with that? You don't mind that everyone with the courage to publicly oppose the spread of Islam requires 24-hour armed security? That's just part of the price we have to pay for having all these wonderful goat-fuckers for neighbors?

Sebastian said...

@Cook:

"And you purport that the billions of Muslims in the world today are all un-evolved and all subscribe to a violent, primitive, zealous form of their faith that drives them all to participate in or support the murder of heretics and infidels." No. But any young male Muslim can decide at any time that he prefers the violent, primitive, zealous form of his faith, you know, from, like, reading the Koran and stuff, or listening to any of hundreds of imams. We have no clue ahead of time, though we do have lots of precedent.

"the likelihood of my (or of any American) being a victim of Islamic terrorism is infinitesimally small." The risk of me getting lung cancer from second-hand smoke was always infinitesimally small. But I am pleased the places I visit now make it zero by prohibiting smoking altogether.

Robert Cook said...

Past results may be no guarantee, but they are strong indicator.

exiledonmainstreet said...

Cook said: " I'm not, despite my having seen it close hand more than once."

That's because ideology trumps basic common sense in your case.

Jupiter wrote:

"You don't mind that everyone with the courage to publicly oppose the spread of Islam requires 24-hour armed security?"

That's an excellent point. There are not only actual attacks, there are the very real threats made by Muslims to anybody who criticizes Islam. Theo van Gogh got murdered in the middle of an Amsterdam street for making a movie critical of Islam.

Anybody concerned about free speech should be alarmed by the fact that there is a religion, alone of all major religions, that everybody is afraid to even joke about in public. Why do you think comedians stick to safe topics - like bashing Christianity? Because they know damn well Christians aren't going to try to saw their heads off on 5th Avenue.

Robert Cook said...

No one's chances of getting lung cancer are zero, and they are much greater than for getting killed by a terrorist act.

Rob McLean said...

Mr. Cook would love to fight Islamic terrorism, I'm sure...but unfortunately that would put him on the same side as the United States.

grackle said...

… statistically, the likelihood of my (or of any American) being a victim of Islamic terrorism is infinitesimally small.

This seemed to be Obama’s attitude also. Thank God Trump came along. Trump gets angry when we are murdered.

In my opinion it’s only a matter of time and opportunity before more efficient and more technologically oriented acts are committed. Unless we work now to avoid the fate of Western Europe and limit or even ban Muslim immigration, these truck murders will seem to be small potatoes. Poison gas, EMP devices, bacteriological agents, a “dirty” bomb (Uranium One, anyone?) – all are possible.

But in the long run I fear the negative social and political change, the repression of freedom, which apparently comes from living with any sizeable amount of Muslims in a given society, more than the personal danger during the initial stages.

I found an interesting article, here.

In 2010, seven years ago, Pew pegged France’s Muslim population at 7.5 percent. Researchers take that number, look at the Muslim birthrate and constant migration, and conclude that the population now must be at least 10 percent.

Just 10% Muslim population and Islamic terrorism is already rife in France. The Muslim birthrate is much higher than the native French birthrate. The article contends that France will be a Muslim-majority nation by 2030. We know what happens in a Muslim-majority nation. Hello, sharia. Goodbye freedom.

Sebastian said...

"No one's chances of getting lung cancer are zero." Correct. But my chances off getting it from second-hand smoking in places that ban it are zero. It improves my quality of life.

Robert Cook said...

@grackle:

Our own government is doing a dandy job of imposing a domestic police state and repressing our freedoms. And we're parsecs ahead of any (imaginary) Muslim Sharia state that could (n)ever be established here.

exiledonmainstreet said...

Robert, has anybody in Hollywood been stabbed to death in broad daylight on Mulholland Drive because they made a joke about Trump on late night TV? If so, I missed it.

Sebastian said...

Muslim terror has already stretched European security services. They have to follow thousands of real jihadis as well as other charming young Muslim men who, by virtue of their conduct and connections, present a real risk. They prosecute hundreds, not always in the US limelight. It's a massive job, and very expensive -- a blight on European society. Even so, the net has holes, as repeated terror attacks show. Preventing our "infinitesimally small" chance of getting hit from growing, and preventing terror prevention and tracking from assuming European proportions, should be a prime US policy goal.

exiledonmainstreet said...

Robert Cook said...
No one's chances of getting lung cancer are zero, and they are much greater than for getting killed by a terrorist act.

11/2/17, 4:38 PM


Well, then, lets bring our odds up by importing more Muslims!

grackle said...

Our own government is doing a dandy job of imposing a domestic police state and repressing our freedoms.

Even with the Deep State, even with a corrupt MSM, even with a feckless, traitorous, self-loathing establishment GOP – America is the freest country the world has ever seen and the most benign great power that has ever appeared in history.

And we're parsecs ahead of any (imaginary) Muslim Sharia state that could (n)ever be established here.

It would happen by degrees, just as it has in France and Germany. First enclaves, then no-go zones and a parallel sharia-based Muslim justice system established. Taking advantage of a democratic form of government the powerful in the Muslim zones are elected to office and of course will pass laws. The birthrate of native Americans has fallen and will probably fall more as time goes by. Demographics are inexorable. I’m thinking of my grandchildren. I want them to live in freedom.

LarsPorsena said...

Blogger Wilbur said...
Cook, you are a disingenuous, enabling fool.

You Leftists are the first ones they'll come after, given a chance.

--------------------------------------------

I don't know why people say this. The leftists will be the first to bow towards Mecca.
The current left doesn't have the backbone to face any real physical threat.

Look at how they abandoned Salman Rushdie at the first whiff of a being cited
in a fatwa. Look how Hollywood and the MSM are more worried about Islamophobia
than actual terror acts. Craven to the bone, they are terrified of real threats to
their existence. Even Southpark won't touch Mohammed while Jesus is a punchline.

LarsPorsena said...

Cook
"Are you really afraid of being touched by Islamic terrorism? I'm not, despite my having seen it close hand more than once. I know, statistically, the likelihood of my (or of any American) being a victim of Islamic terrorism is infinitesimally small.'

After December 7, 1941 the statistical likelihood of any American being killed by
an carrier based aircraft strike was infinitesimally small.

mockturtle said...

Look at how they abandoned Salman Rushdie at the first whiff of a being cited
in a fatwa. Look how Hollywood and the MSM are more worried about Islamophobia
than actual terror acts. Craven to the bone, they are terrified of real threats to
their existence. Even Southpark won't touch Mohammed while Jesus is a punchline.


Islam is sacrosanct here and in Europe. The faux outrage at 'Islamophobia' and the liberal use of our justice system sees to that. The high proportion of anti-discrimination lawsuits by Muslims in the US does not reflect cases of actual discrimination but rather a concerted effort to quash freedom of speech. It worked in the UK and it's working here.

Gahrie said...


Are you really afraid of being touched by Islamic terrorism? I'm not, despite my having seen it close hand more than once. I know, statistically, the likelihood of my (or of any American) being a victim of Islamic terrorism is infinitesimally small.

...and fuck everyone else...right?

Jupiter said...

"Craven to the bone, they are terrified of real threats to their existence."

Well, yeah. Aren't you? That's my point. Cookie can babble all he likes about lung cancer. That's why I don't smoke. I don't want to die hideously. And that's why I am posting here under a pseudonym. Because people who publicly criticize Islam -- in America, the land of the Free and the home of the craven -- are never safe again. And every Muslim who walks thru an American airport is another nail in the coffin of Freedom of Speech.

Achilles said...

Robert Cook said...
No one's chances of getting lung cancer are zero, and they are much greater than for getting killed by a terrorist act.

Please explain how this is an argument for accepting the religion of Islam and it's adherents and their beliefs into our society.

I am not sure if you think I should be disarmed or not. I would hope you don't.

EMyrt said...

anti-de Sitter space said...

"Says the believer in climate magic."

Climate magic? http://www.moroni10.com/jesus-creation-earth.jpg
11/2/17, 11:16 AM

Science does not equal warmism, creationism is not the opposite of CAGW. Carbon dioxide is not pollution.

http://www.teamnetworks.net/photo/3398/temperature-curve-last-fifteen-thousand-years-char/

MalaiseLongue said...

“And you purport that the billions of Muslims in the world today are all un-evolved and all subscribe to a violent, primitive, zealous form of their faith that drives them all to participate in or support the murder of heretics and infidels.”

The trouble is that Muslims like Ayan Hirsi Ali have to live with bodyguards.

Robert Cook said...

"I’m thinking of my grandchildren. I want them to live in freedom."

It's probably too late, but if you're serious, you need to start protesting the hell out of US domestic policing, security, and internal spying policies, stat!

Robert Cook said...

"After December 7, 1941 the statistical likelihood of any American being killed by
an carrier based aircraft strike was infinitesimally small."


Actually, the enormous odds against being killed by a terrorist strike counts the deaths that occurred on 9/11.

If all you intrepid fighters against all that threatens Americans really want to end dangers to American lives, there are many things that are far more likely to kill us that you need to stop, including motor vehicle accidents and gun violence. You should demand that Trump ban the manufacture and sale and use of all motor vehicles and the manufacture and use and sale of all guns and bullets. You would be saving the lives of many thousands of people who will die, otherwise.

grackle said...

If all you intrepid fighters against all that threatens Americans really want to end dangers to American lives, there are many things that are far more likely to kill us that you need to stop, including motor vehicle accidents and gun violence. You should demand that Trump ban the manufacture and sale and use of all motor vehicles and the manufacture and use and sale of all guns and bullets. You would be saving the lives of many thousands of people who will die, otherwise.

I love it when the jihad apologists use this argument. I hope they all use this same argument all of the time. I believe it pisses off many more folks than it converts to the terror apologists’ way of dealing with terrorism. And what is that “way?”

First, try to deny that terrorism occurred at all. Label it “workplace violence” or sadly declare that “we may never know the shooter’s motivation.” This tactic doesn’t work very well these days but it was SOP at the beginning of the Obama era.

Next, reluctantly admit it but try to ignore it, another tactic that has proven to be ineffective over time. Citizens eventually get tired of the MSM’s lack of coverage and the apologists’ blithe and breezy dismissals.

Lastly, as in the comment above, declare that Islamic terrorism is a non-issue. Imply or state outright that terrorism has little or no impact on world events, domestic security or politics. Islamic terrorism is presented as a minor irritation that should be passively endured. As in the comment above they are likely to vocalize their hatred of the 2nd Amendment at the same time or espouse other Lefty talking points to “drive home” their “point.”

Robert Cook said...

"As in the comment above they are likely to vocalize their hatred of the 2nd Amendment...."

I'm not pointing out my hatred of the 2nd Amendment as I don't hate the 2nd Amendment. I'm pointing out the hypocrisy and/or illogical bigotry of those who condemn Muslims as a group of being killers, terrorists, or supporters of same, and so: we must "ban" them.

If your fear and hatred of Muslims and desire to ban them is based on your expectation they will kill Americans, then it is logical to hate and fear and ban all things that kill Americans, and the more likely something is to kill us, the more urgent to ban said dangers...such as motor vehicles and guns, which are both vastly more likely to kill us than terrorists are.

mockturtle said...

If your fear and hatred of Muslims and desire to ban them is based on your expectation they will kill Americans

I neither fear nor hate Muslims. But I know that their ideology and worldview are antithetical to ours.