September 22, 2017

"Senator John McCain of Arizona announced on Friday that he would oppose the latest proposal to repeal the Affordable Care Act..."

"... leaving Republican leaders with little hope of succeeding in their last-ditch attempt to dismantle the health law" (NYT).

So Lindsey Graham’s being his best friend was not enough.

229 comments:

1 – 200 of 229   Newer›   Newest»
Michael K said...

The last sting of the dying adder.

rhhardin said...

McCain's principle is grandstanding. Everything is for that.

A consequence of being an inferior in everything of his ancestors.

3rdGradePB_GoodPerson said...

BTW, the idea that McCain would for this because of his pal has been an annoying media line.

He'd laid out process complaints w/ the last bill that are even worse with the current version. Suggesting that he'd ditch his POV and flip cause of his pal didn't make sense. IMHO.

And, the Alsaka-purchase seems to be off the table, so that could be a problem for "repeal."

I dunno.

David said...

Maybe Trump should have been nicer to him.

Quaestor said...

I surmise McCain will not be spending his retirement in Arizona.

rehajm said...
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rehajm said...
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rehajm said...

A bill impacting so many lives deserves a bipartisan approach.

So that means the ACA is out, right?

Todd said...

Oh how I long for the words "Former Senator John McCain"!

Bay Area Guy said...

McCain strikes back!

I liked him in 2000, but boy has he lost his mind.

3rdGradePB_GoodPerson said...

He got pushed hard and rolled for the W tax cut, which he (rightly, it turned out) worried would not be deficit neutral.

He probably thought of that and didn't wanna go out being cornered into a bad decision, again.

Anywho, somewhere I should still have (unless someone tossed it) a McCain yard sign from his battle w/ W.

Etienne said...

McCain has health insurance. Why should he want to make it affordable? It's like giving free stuff to peasants. Make them work for it.

Chuck said...

Ann Althouse must be thrilled by this news. After all, she voted for Barack Obama for president, twice, right?

And the ACA is the signature achievement of the Obama years.

For anyone who voted for Obama twice, this must be a great day.

Yancey Ward said...

McCain has run his last election campaign so he doesn't have to worry about getting primaried or voted out of office, and he is going to stick it to the Republican Party in Congress at every opportunity now. I think the last vote his party got from him was the Gorsuch confirmation vote. If another seat on SCOTUS opens in the next year, I think it all but certain that McCain will vote with the Democrats, and if in the next five years it becomes possible for him to switch parties and hand control of the Senate to the Democrats, he will do exactly that.

Having wrote that, though, I am glad this bill is dying. I still think the very best thing is to let the exchanges collapse, which they are almost guaranteed to do now.

Michael K said...

"the idea that McCain would for this because of his pal has been an annoying media line."

No, he just promised repeal when he was running for election last year.

Promises, promises.

He promised repeal. Period.

3rdGradePB_GoodPerson said...

Chuck,

Just once for her.

That's an easy thing to know. Keep up.

Pinandpuller said...

Is this the hill he does on?

Michael K said...

"if in the next five years it becomes possible for him to switch parties and hand control of the Senate to the Democrats, he will do exactly that."

That, fortunately, is not in the cards.

Bay Area Guy said...

"He promised repeal. Period."

But, Michael K, this isn't the right kind of repeal, don't you know?

Either Menendez needs to get convicted, McCain primaried, or a few more GOP Senators to make this happen.

REPEAL!

Pinandpuller said...

Sheesh, dies on. He does much of nothing, like the rest.

3rdGradePB_GoodPerson said...

Doc Mike,

Thanks for highlighting my typo. Sheesh.

Anywho, if the repeal included interning the residents of Binford WY, would McCain still be obligated to vote for it?

Let's assume that there's some fine print re, at least, not voting for something w/o a complete workup of the financial impact (e.g. from CBO) and then reviewing the implications of that impact.

Used to be that we were told it was bad to pass something before knowing what's in it.

MaxedOutMama said...

Chuck - unless I am hallucinating, Ann told us she voted for Romney the second time around. Do you have an Ann-phobia?

We'll see. McCain is breaking his campaign promises, and if it weren't that he is dealing with brain cancer, I'd have some harsh words for him. Before that announcement, I was reading the news about him and thinking that he had some age-related brain problem.

I think he did wrong; he thinks he did right. He is, under our system, still legitimately entitled to his vote and his decision.

robinintn said...

His bitter, poisonous hatred for Trump beats the mild affection he may feel for his Mini Me.

President-Mom-Jeans said...

", I think it all but certain that McCain will vote with the Democrats, and if in the next five years it becomes possible for him to switch parties and hand control of the Senate to the Democrats, he will do exactly that."

I'd be surprised if he lives two years. Not going to get anywhere close to 5.

Charlie Eklund said...

People of Arizona; start your Recall Election engines.

Nonapod said...

McCain's hatred runs deep. Revenge is clearly far more important to him than anything else.

Pinandpuller said...

Re switching parties: Are they going to broadcast a seance on CSPAN?

We're here today with a gypsy lady calling forth the spirit of Senator John McCain (D Hell).

Ray said...

McCain will probably be dead from glioblastoma (virulent brain cancer) within 12 more months. I doubt he will retire voluntarily, but will die in office.

Mac McConnell said...

THIS IS NEWS?

Jim at said...

"Maybe Trump should have been nicer to him."

Please include your /sarc next time.
Thanks.

Pinandpuller said...

Is that considered demonization? Lord, I apologize.

Nonapod said...

McCain will probably be dead from glioblastoma (virulent brain cancer) within 12 more months. I doubt he will retire voluntarily, but will die in office.

“...to the last I grapple with thee; from hell's heart I stab at thee; for hate's sake I spit my last breath at thee.”

Michael K said...

"Used to be that we were told it was bad to pass something before knowing what's in it."

It used to be that Congress persons actually wrote their own legislation. Their staffs often helped with details but now they pass some vague thing and anticipate the Administrative State will write the regs.

I've seen typos and even margin notes enacted into law. Nobody reads it but the staffer who wrote the language and he/she probably has no idea of the implications.

As Ben Rhodes usefully told us, "The average reporter we talk to is 27 years old, and their only reporting experience consists of being around political campaigns. That’s a sea change. They literally know nothing.”

That applies to staffers, as well.

3rdGradePB_GoodPerson said...

"Revenge is clearly far more important to him than anything else."

By potentially giving life to the signature achievement of the dude who beat him?

McCain's BHO beef is way deeper than the DJT kerfuffle. In fact, more than helping his pal, I'd guess that McCain's urge to screw BHO was the hardest motivation he had to overcome. IMHO.

Dickin'Bimbos@Home said...

If Rand says the repeal bill is terrible, it's probably terrible.

McCain is just a jerk and I don't trust him. I do trust Rand.

Dickin'Bimbos@Home said...

All those liars are too cowardly to keep their promise to repeal it.
We don't need to replace it with more socialism.

richlb said...

It's NOT a TOO-muh.

tim in vermont said...

Hillary Clinton said in her book that McCain sobbed to her about the election.

Chuck said...

Meh.

I actually liked Senator Graham's articulation of the bill. At the same time, I thoroughly respect Senator McCain's articulation of the lack of process. I'm no hypocrite; I criticized Obamacare for being a one-party concoction.

If there is one thing to be happy about, it is denying to Donald Trump any basis to claim any sort of personal victory.

tim in vermont said...

Yeah Chuck, the country can go to Hell, right?

HoodlumDoodlum said...

For anyone who voted for Obama [...], this must be a great day.

Yep, that ought to be consistent line: we Republicans wanted to get rid of Obamacare but you moderates and liberals opposed us at every turn. All the problems you have with your healtcare now are the product of Obamacare--the system the Media insists is wonderful and grand. If you want it to be changed you'll have to vote in a supermajority of Republicans.

Now I hasten to add: the GOP will fuck that message up and will 100% take the blame for the current mess & Obamacare's failings. After 7 years they managed to fuck this up even with majorities in both chambers and a President who'd sign anything they sent him, now. All the people who insisted that the GOP leadership is really smart and knows what they're doing and are the only reason Republicans have gained any ground in races around the nation in the last 8 years can just fuck right off, too. This is the GOP leadership, folks.

But hey: Jimmy Kimmell will be happy, right? Pathetic.

john said...

McCain's right. Nobody's that upset with Obamacare yet, and because of the fecklessness of the last couple of congresses who fucked around and never allowed it sink on its own, folks have generally gotten used to it and don't see much value in what appears to be gutting payments to states. So McCain sees it as being a big loser for repubs.

McCain is also not going to let a fucking draft dodger get away with what he said.

It must also upset Trump that Bernie scooped him on single payer, which was Trump's trump card never played after congresses first failure to repeal. With the revised bill now going nowhere, he could swallow a bit of his ego (and embrace his inner democrat anyway) by sidling up to the dems on this option. Might be just the Obamacare repeal he wanted anyway.

Chuck said...

MaxedOutMama said...
Chuck - unless I am hallucinating, Ann told us she voted for Romney the second time around. Do you have an Ann-phobia?

No phobias. Just an observation. What about my observation makes you think it rose to "phobia" level?

I'll say it more clearly; I don't know for a fact who Althouse voted for in 2012. Maybe she'll say. I voted for McCain in 2008, and Romney in 2012, and worked for the Michigan Republicans/RNLA in both years.

We'll see. McCain is breaking his campaign promises...

Shit. What about Trump's campaign promises? Where is his do-all plan? The plan that completely preserved Medicare, and Medicaid, and featured lower premiums, lower deductibles and co-pays, where "everybody" could be covered, with better coverage.

sparrow said...

McCain always ditches the party in close votes. Dems have much tighter party discipline as a rule.

HoodlumDoodlum said...

If there is one thing to be happy about, it is denying to Donald Trump any basis to claim any sort of personal victory.

That's idiotic. This GOP failure makes it EASIER for Trump to avoid blame for not accomplishing his pledge to repeal & replace! "Hey, I wanted to, I let the smart GOP leadership do their thing and present their bills in their way, and they just couldn't get it done. I was ready to sign the bill in that last round but they couldn't get their own Senators to vote for it. I don't know why they didn't already have widespread agreement and ideas already scored, but that's just the kind of failure we've come to expect from establishment swamp-types."
This failure makes Trump look BETTER by comparison (to the GOP legislative leaders), dude.

Brookzene said...

Nobody reads it but the staffer who wrote the language and he/she probably has no idea of the implications.

You mean the lobbyist who wrote it.

AJ Lynch said...

Rand Paul should submit a onsentence bill proposal:

"Every citizen and every business, by 12/31/17, must opt in or opt out of the requirements of the ACA [Obamacare]."

Chuck said...

tim in vermont said...
Yeah Chuck, the country can go to Hell, right?

I don't want the country to go to Hell. But I wouldn't mind seeing Trump there.

I'd like Congress to fix health care, in regular order. No gimmicks. No reconciliation bills. It probably wouldn't be called "Repeal of Obamacare." And so, it would probably never be understood as a clean win for Trump. Fine! I'd just like to see something that had bipartisan buy in. A bill crafted by some master negotiators and creative deal-makers.




Brookzene said...

Yeah Chuck, the country can go to Hell, right?

It's a little late for the Trumpista's to be thinking about that.

Brookzene said...

"Hey, I wanted to, I let the smart GOP leadership do their thing and present their bills in their way, and they just couldn't get it done.

Seems to me the read is he can't get a deal with his own party.

Khesanh 0802 said...

Apparently we are just going to have to let Obamacare play out. There is not enough money in the US to offset the mess that it is making. I have said before and will say again that the guys who designed this weren't stupid and they knew that once in place it was going to be very hard to replace Ocare with anything but single payer, ie. by giving even more stuff away. Probably the best solution is for Trump to follow the letter of the law and not continue illegal subsidies to the insurance companies ( as well as putting Congress on Obamacare). Without subsidies one or both may happen: individuals will see average premium increases over 50%, the insurance companies are going to withdraw from the majority of US counties.

It is already clear in MN that if subsidies are not paid the individual market will see rises like last year's 50%. Right now anticipated increases are less because the state has anted up some subsidy money and is counting a federal waiver chicken before the egg is hatched. Governor Dayton is frantic about getting a waiver from the Feds so he can spend half a billion bucks to hold down individual premiums this year. Ironic that HHS should holding out on the state that has held out on several of Trumps appointees. Is someone keeping score?

Paul said...

Why should McCain care?

He is dying... so he has nothing to lose.

He will screw Trump as much as he can out of pure hate.

vanderleun said...

Dear Tumor,
Faster please.
Thanking you in advance...

Ray said...

I would guess it the other way around. Trump directly insulted McCain's honor. Obama did it through cut outs / proxies. Both attacks against McCain by Obama and Trump were mean and nasty. The one by Obama about McCain not using a computer I thought beyond the pale (truth is he can't type due to injuries sustained while a prisoner), but then Trump had his line about being a prisoner.

>McCain's BHO beef is way deeper than the DJT kerfuffle. In fact, more than helping
>his pal, I'd guess that McCain's urge to screw BHO was the hardest motivation he had
>to overcome. IMHO.

I believe McCain's action is more about getting appreciation by the MSM, and being a hero by doing the right thing. By being a Maverick to the despicable Republican party! It's a shame he forgot how he got treated by them while running for President against Obama. And the promises he made to get elected.

Another challenge of the Republican Party, is they don't do incrementalism. It's either all or nothing. The Democratic Party is willing to do incrementalism, which is why they have been so successful.

Big Mike said...

There are 13 Republican members of Congress who are physicians, and three senators (Rand Paul, Tom Coburn, and John Barrasso). I think they should be the ones to write the repeal and replace for Obamacare, as physicians have the most skin in the game. Senators and members of Congress who are lawyer should have no say.

Scott Gustafson said...

Of course McCain didn't keep his promise. If he voted for repeal he wouldn't have made the news in the New York Times.

I have no idea what he believes or what is going on in his head. However, I have found that the best way to predict what he will do is to figure out what gives him the most publicity in the NYT. Go with that and you will rarely be wrong.

Ray said...

Agree, Trump should do this ASAP
>as well as putting Congress on Obamacare

I am surprised no lawsuits on the issue, but probably the issue of standing. And the GOP members of congress have not been smart enough to force it...

narciso said...

The Jones memo, tells you everything you nwex to know about Mccain.

Kirk Parker said...

AJ,

Fine idea, but the wrong sentence. How about this:

"The PPACA is hereby repealed in its entirety."

President-Mom-Jeans said...

"
If there is one thing to be happy about, it is denying to Donald Trump any basis to claim any sort of personal victory."

I really hope that McCain outlives Chuck.

gerry said...

He is a sad old man.

Kevin said...

Chuck hopes good things happen for America.

Unless Trump might get credit.

HoodlumDoodlum said...

Dickin'Bimbos@Home said...
If Rand says the repeal bill is terrible, it's probably terrible.

McCain is just a jerk and I don't trust him. I do trust Rand.


Ok, fair enough. Where's Rand's bill? Where are Rand's cosponsors to shepherd his bill through the chamber and garner enough votes for it to pass?
I'm all for government inaction, guys, truly I am!
When the Dems pass huge, nation-changing shit, though, and the Repubs can't get their act together to even just repeal what's only existed for a few years (let alone pass their own bills to shape the nation in their preferred way) you've got a very damaging ratchet that only moves us to the Left. That's worse than nothing!

AJ Lynch said...

Kirk - works for me.

Big Mike: Coburn is retired isn't he? And the senator from Mississippi who co-sponsored the bill with Graham is a physician I believe.

But I do agree whole-heartedly with your idea that the docs be the ones who craft the bill.

HoodlumDoodlum said...

Big Mike said...There are 13 Republican members of Congress who are physicians, and three senators (Rand Paul, Tom Coburn, and John Barrasso). I think they should be the ones to write the repeal and replace for Obamacare, as physicians have the most skin in the game. Senators and members of Congress who are lawyer should have no say.

Ok, great idea Big Mike. Where is it? WHY HASN'T THAT ALREADY HAPPENED?! What is the excuse for their repeated failures to even get something that would pass their own party into an actual bill?
What will it take? If/when a Dem gets elected President in 2020 will the Republican leadership finally say "now we're REALLY gonna get it together and pass some solid conservative legislation!" or is there just no situation wherein Republican majorities in both chambers can actually get something together?
If that's the case what's the argument for voting for any of them ever again?

Judges, right? Are they setting records for judges approved for open seats lately? Gee, doesn't seem like they're tearin' it up on that front, either.

Pathetic.

mccullough said...

Kentucky is a big beneficiary of Obamacare. Rand Paul is not going to vote to repeal it.
He says he will vote no because it doesn't repeal Obamacare in its entirety. So he gives the majority of his constituents the result they want and spouts small government bullshit to the handful of Kentuckians and libertarians who love words and ignore actions.
Obamacare is here to stay. The next vote will be to prop up the insurance companies with payments. Rand will vote no because he won't be the deciding vote. The national debt has ballooned while Rand is in the Senate. But he sure loves to spout off

Mac McConnell said...

The only thing McStain has ever been concerned with is him self, well that and making sure Sen Schumer will allow McStain to hump his leg. The man has had absolutely free government healthcare on the taxpayers' dime since he jettisoned his mother's womb, he doesn't know any better.

FleetUSA said...

Senator Judas McCain needs a tree to hang himself on.

Brookzene said...

John McCain sacrificed an awful lot for my freedom. In fact, they showed part of his interview from his hospital bed in Hanoi where he was recovering from two broken arms and a broken leg - the narrator said they set his bones without so much as an aspirin. Pretty unforgettable to see him from that perspective.

He pretty much gets a pass for anything he does after that, as far as I'm concerned.

Roughcoat said...

Remember when the writers at the National Review would crow about the GOP's "deep bench"?

Ha. Ha. It is to laugh. {Daffy Duck voice}]

HoodlumDoodlum said...

I'd like Congress to fix health care, in regular order. No gimmicks. No reconciliation bills. It probably wouldn't be called "Repeal of Obamacare." And so, it would probably never be understood as a clean win for Trump. Fine! I'd just like to see something that had bipartisan buy in. A bill crafted by some master negotiators and creative deal-makers.

See the ratchet? It's a veritable ratchet racket, I tell you!

The Dems pass Obamacare on a straight party line Senate vote after all the backroom shenanigans Reid could think up but Chuck says the only proper way to undo that is through some terrific bipartisan bill.

Regular order, huh? Ridiculous. Here, read this recent "fact check" by Glenn F'n Kessler at WashPo covering the sleazy way Reid pushed Obamacare through the Senate. The chamber held a large number of hearings and committee meetings (approximating "regular order") but in the end the bill first voted on was an amendment Reid attached to an otherwise-empty husk of a House bill awaiting Senate approval (done so Reid didn't have to get senate consent to take up the bill/debate) and all the hundreds of amendments seemingly debated (as part of "regular order") were not allowed to have a chance of actually applying to the bill.

From that article:
So consideration of the bill “proceeded on two parallel tracks,” starting when the Senate returned to work on Nov. 30. The first track was public, with the illusion of debate and votes on amendments. The official record shows 506 amendments were offered. annan says this activity suggests “a vigorous effort to alter the bill’s final form on the Senate floor. But this number is deceptive. In actuality, only a tiny fraction of these amendments has any significance” to the bill’s legislative history. Only a handful of amendments covered by a unanimous consent agreement (UCA) reached between the two sides had any relevance, he concluded. Meanwhile, “all of those amendments not covered by UCAs were ordered to lie on the table as soon as they were introduced and had no parliamentary standing at all.”

That’s because the real work was going on behind closed doors, back in Reid’s office,"
...
Once the deals were in hand, Reid on Dec. 19 revealed a manager’s amendment revising the proposed bill, which was also scored by the CBO. He filed three successive cloture motions to end debate on the revised manager’s amendment, on his original amendment and on the original House bill. He also filed three other amendments that had the effect of “filling the amendment tree” — cutting off opportunities for the Republicans to alter the text.


That's the kind of bipartisan work the Dems do! And apparently it's wrong to try and undo that bullshit using the same methods, so CLICK CLICK CLICK the ratchet turns and can never turn back.

Pathetic.

Khesanh 0802 said...

The central point here is that after 8 years the Republicans in Congress have not been able to reach agreement on doing anything about Obamacare. Nothing! I have been trying to come up with some sound advice on attacking one problem at a time, but the reality is that we, as a people, are stuck with Obamacare. No one has the leverage to do anything about it legislatively. HHS can, I guess, slowly strangle it, and Trump can punish the health insurance companies but no one can kill Obamacare until the pain becomes so great that some kind of consensus develops in the country - and I, frankly, doubt there is anyone who can provide the leadership for that. It is going to take us until individual premiums are completely unaffordable, and corporate health plans are only offered by the very largest corporations,for a majority to overcome its selfishness and solve the problem. One only can hope that at that time we do not heed the siren call of single payer, but I am afraid that may not be the case.

HoodlumDoodlum said...

Politico 12.29.09: Payoffs for States Gets Reid to 60

But yeah, of course: Republicans shouldn't do anything that might look crass or unfair in any way when trying to repeal this bitch--Dems can cut all sorts of sweetheart deals amounting to spending TENS OF BILLIONS OF DOLLARS to armtwist their 60 Senators to vote along party lines, but if Republicans don't get wide bipartisan support for their repeal then that repeal effort is tainted and should fail.

Pathetic.

M Jordan said...

Mccains the man who financed the finding of the bogus dossier on Trump and personally hand delivered to James Comey.

Chuck said...

The Dems pass Obamacare on a straight party line Senate vote after all the backroom shenanigans Reid could think up but Chuck says the only proper way to undo that is through some terrific bipartisan bill.

I criticized all of those backroom shenanigans by the Dems.

Why wouldn't I have the same criticisms, if Republicans did the same? Admittedly, I'd go a lot easier on Republicans. I'm a partisan. A Republican. I want Republicans to win. But a one-party reconciliation vote is just a bad way to make important law changing one-sixth of the economy.

Earnest Prole said...

John McCain is like France during the Cold War: Unprincipled playing of both sides gives the greatest power.

Roughcoat said...

Khesanh 0802 @ 3:15 PM:

You speak the truth, sir. Your Truth-Fu is very strong.

Khesanh 0802 said...

@ Hoodlum Doodlum It takes courage, smarts and toughness to do what Reid did. You are absolutely correct that there is no Republican - certainly not McConnell - who has those attributes. According to Kim Strassel Trump played hard ball with Murkowski after she defected in July having Zinke threaten to cut off federal largess to Alaska, but it's McConnell who has the leverage in the Senate. Committee appointments are always a nice way of rewarding or penalizing Senators. Paul and Collins should be the junior members of the buildings and grounds committee, and several other attractive committees like waste disposal, and decorations for the prom, but McConnell doesn't have the cojones for that.

Roughcoat said...

The Republicans, collectively, remind me of Gen. George McClellan.

Hagar said...

I listened to Lindsey Graham's voice when he said there is no chance of any Democrats voting for any part of repeal. That was not speculation; he has asked the usual suspects and been told "Sorry, Lindsey, but if I vote for your bill I will be a dead man as far as my party is concerned, and I cannot afford that."

In the face of this kind of behavior by the Democrat leadership, talk of regular process and debate is futile.

rehajm said...

But a one-party reconciliation vote is just a bad way to make important law changing one-sixth of the economy.

Meanwhile while we wait for Senate perfection there are Americans suffering from the consequences from last time we had single party legislation..

Not to worry, Chuck has assured us these people are all single IT guys making $90K+ a year.

Big Mike said...

Where is it? WHY HASN'T THAT ALREADY HAPPENED?!

@Hoodlum, my take is (1) Paul Ryan has this notion that he's a great policy wonk, and (2) lawyers just have to get their paws on things? This has to be part of it, but unlikely to be all of it.

hombre said...

In 2016 Fiscal Times reported that McCain's and my Arizona would see a 116% increase in health insurance premiums in 2017. We are well on our way. During his last campaign McCain berated his opponent for supporting Obamacare in the House and promised to support repeal.

John McCain is an unprincipled blowhard who has regularly sold out his constituents in exchange for strokes from the leftmedia.

Obamacare is a political swamp. Everybody knows it. Schumer and McCain are the quintessential swamprats. Everybody knows that too.

Khesanh 0802 said...

@Roughcoat Thanks. It was with a great deal of pain that I wrote that 3:15 comment.

Winnie said...

I believe the problem now is that the states with expanded Medicare programs will continue to recieve Federal payments to cover the expansion. States that didn't will continue to have a certain population of people who can neither afford the new expensive Obamacare insurance nor qualify for subsidies. They are, thankfully, not fined under the mandate but they have no insurance at all.

Hagar said...

One sixth of the economy has been changed, and not for the better.

Chuck said...

...According to Kim Strassel Trump played hard ball with Murkowski after she defected in July having Zinke threaten to cut off federal largess to Alaska..."

Yeah, and Senator Murkowski bailed out Trump and Zinke on that one. After the Inspector General of the Department of the Interior opened up an investigation of possible wrongdoing on the parts of Zinke and the White House, they shut it down because Murkowski said she would not assist the investigation.

http://www.cnn.com/2017/08/30/politics/ryan-zinke-oig-health-care-investigation/

Now Trump owes Murkowski! Such a dealmaker!

Chuck said...

Roughcoat said...
The Republicans, collectively, remind me of Gen. George McClellan.


McClellan; Democrat.

Lincoln, Grant, Sherman; Republicans.

rehajm said...

Re: the mandate penalty for households having no insurance: Do we still get to penalize those households in zip codes that have no health plans in the exchange?

HoodlumDoodlum said...

But a one-party reconciliation vote is just a bad way to make important law changing one-sixth of the economy.

And so, once done the damage can never be undone. The Dems won't undo their bill, Chuck. Any "fix" they allow on a "bipartisan basis" will be to expand and further Obamacare.

I don't think I've ever used the epithet "cuck" before, but darn if it doesn't seem an appropriate insult for anyone who insists on watching the country get fucked by their ideological opponents because to do otherwise would require acting "in a bad way."

Sorry chaps, I agree we should undo that terrible Obamacare law but I just can't bear the thought of using the same tactics you did to get it passed in the first place so I guess my only option is to keep it forever and continue bending over while the Democrats have fun pushing whatever they want until the country has blood "coming out of our whatever."

Mac McConnell said...

This image explains McStain.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DF-inonUQAA_gnF.jpg

Mac McConnell said...

I the previous posted image Chuck is thanking McStain for swallowing.

Alex said...

McCain's career should have ended in the Keating 5 scandal. Goes to show that Arizona voters have no principles.

HoodlumDoodlum said...

Big Mike said...@Hoodlum, my take is (1) Paul Ryan has this notion that he's a great policy wonk, and (2) lawyers just have to get their paws on things? This has to be part of it, but unlikely to be all of it.

Well, you know, maybe in another 7 or 8 years they'll have worked something out. I guess I'll just wait until then.
In the meantime I bet we can get a whole lot of solid bipartisan fixes passed shoveling more money to a designed-to-fail system at the expense of, you know, everything else.
Hey, at least that nasty Trump didn't get "a victory" and at least Republican legislators get another few cycles of a great campaign issue--vote for more of us and we super promise we'll get it done this time!
Solid plan the GOP has; really solid.

google is evil said...

Trump, the last HONEST man in DC. I hope Trump yanks Congress'' illegal Obamacare exception. Monday would send a message.

Lem said...

Topping it off....Trump succeeded where he failed.

Lem said...

What rh said.

HoodlumDoodlum said...

Winnie said...I believe the problem now is that the states with expanded Medicare programs will continue to recieve Federal payments to cover the expansion. States that didn't will continue to have a certain population of people who can neither afford the new expensive Obamacare insurance nor qualify for subsidies. They are, thankfully, not fined under the mandate but they have no insurance at all.

Yup. And things will continue to be both ruinously expensive for the nation as a whole and woefully inadequate for huge numbers of individuals...for which the Republicans will somehow continue to be blamed.
Heck of a job, GOP! Keep sending me those fundraising letters, I dare you.

Lem said...

There's no doubt in my mind where McCain president of the United States he would be trying to repeal Ocare.

Narayanan Subramanian said...

Correct me if I am wrong ... My take away from Dred Scott is SC saying in effect it was a mistake to give him standing to sue for his freedom and as precedent perversely no citizen has standing to challenge ACA today to get back freedom to choose one's own healthcare

HoodlumDoodlum said...

Khesanh 0802 said...@ Hoodlum Doodlum It takes courage, smarts and toughness to do what Reid did. You are absolutely correct that there is no Republican - certainly not McConnell - who has those attributes

It helps a LOT to have a Media fully behind you (and behind your President), as well--I don't dispute that undoing Obamacare is exceedingly difficult nor that the Republicans would have to pay a price for doing so, nor even that with Trump as the Pres. the Republicans' job becomes even more difficult. But fuck, man, that's what they were voted in to office to do. It's what they've been saying they were going to do and it's why so many seats across the nation are Republican today. Obamacare cost the Dems a lot of seats, but they did it (in the manner they did it) anyway. For years now Republican voters have worked to put Republican asses in the House and Senate seats specifically to undo that legislation. I'm sure undoing it would be costly for many Republicans--I'm sure they'd have to listen to Jimmy Kimmell unfairly insult them night after night and it'd make them sad. That's their goddamned job, though! That's why people raised money for them, campaigned for them, and voted for them.

What's the excuse? "It's hard." Ok. Reid managed it and you've had quite a while to work out the best way to undo it. You have majorities in both chambers and a compliant President. "Gee, we just can't get it done." What is the point of you, then?

Narayanan Subramanian said...

As President McCain would not be in 2008 need to.

mockturtle said...

I predict that, in the future, the American people will never again give the GOP a majority. They are as useless as the proverbial teats on a boar. All they want to do is to get re-elected and protect their interests. The last time I can remember Congress getting things done was the GOP Congress during the Clinton administration under Newt Gingrich.

Matthew Sablan said...

"So that means the ACA is out, right?"

-- Only Republicans have to be bi-partisan, apparently.

Hagar said...

If McCain were president of the United States, Obamacare would be the least of our worries.

He just is not very bright, has appalling personal judgment, and labors under the presumption that he must still live up to the reputations of his father and grandfather somehow.

Matthew Sablan said...

"This failure makes Trump look BETTER by comparison (to the GOP legislative leaders), dude."

-- Honestly, I think that's going to be Trump's go-to soon. "It isn't my job to write legislation. I tried giving them policy ideas, like my Big Beautiful Wall, but look what they did with it. Nothing. Sad!"

That may be more than 140 characters though.

Hagar said...

Harry Reid ran the Senate as if he was a lawyer lobbyist for the White House, and for Nancy Pelosi, it has never been any question other than "us" versus "them." Both did tremendous damage to their respective Houses.

n.n said...

So, it will be Obama's Unaffordable and Rationed Health Care Act with a side of CAPP (Catastrophic Anthropogenic Planned Parenthood), which may progress to a minority operated monopoly (a.k.a. single-payer). Perhaps that's the best a secular society under the Pro-Choice Church can manage. What a shame. There was a potential for a conservation of principles and reconciliation of the human fitness function, but it seems we are destined only for monotonic divergence.

Matthew Sablan said...

"Probably the best solution is for Trump to follow the letter of the law."

-- The best remedy to a bad rule is rigorous enforcement.

traditionalguy said...

Men who have served in Congress with McCain will tell you that he is seriously unbalanced and is not trusted by his colleagues. No wonder
the globalist RINOs wanted him to be their President.

HoodlumDoodlum said...

Complete the danged fence, right Senator?
Repeal the danged ACA, right Mr. McCain, like you campaigned on doing?

Pathetic.

HoodlumDoodlum said...

DailyBeast: Jimmy Kimmel Got a Hand from Chuck Schumer In Fight Against Obamacare Repeal

Behind the scenes, the ABC star was getting an assist. Kimmel and his team were in touch with health care officials, charities and advocacy groups, multiple sources told The Daily Beast. He also was in touch with the office of Senate Minority Leader Chuck Schumer (D-N.Y) who, according to a source familiar with their conversations, “provided technical guidance and info about the bill, as well as stats from various think tanks and experts on the effects of [Graham-Cassidy].”

But remember: there is no "Media" and even if there were it isn't hard Left, 'cause Fox News exists, or something.
Also yeah $100k of shitty Facebook ads from Russia totally undermine our democracy but the tens of millions of in-kind campaign contributions fuckwits like Kimmel and Colbert give to Dems every year is just business as usual.

mockturtle said...

Surely someone diagnosed with brain cancer should be removed from office. Confusion and personality changes are frequent symptoms. McCain has become nuttier than a vegan's turd the last few years.

Static Ping said...

As someone mentioned on Twitter, McCain's requirement to repealing or even modifying Obamacare are as such as they are impossible. He is essentially declaring himself pro-Obamacare as it is currently written.

Dude, if you want to change party affiliations, they have forms for that.

Hagar said...

The last time around, the proposed repeal act would still have failed without McCain's vote.
But he had to make a point of acting like a jackass anyway.

However, I think it is the same this time. Murkowski may feel it is too much for her to let herself be bought again, so someone else will have to step into the breach, but I am sure the GOPe will provide another black sheep to make certain the bill will fail.

James Smith said...

Ray,
Sen. Johnson from WI filed a lawsuit challenging the Congressional exemption right after Obamacare was passed. The Court said he lacked standing as he was not an aggrieved party since the exemption benefited him.

The GOP establishment has once again revealed it is feckless, unreliable and lacking in any sense of personal honor.

I believe that Trump will once again make a deal with the Dems to advance his agenda. And these same sorry bunch of backstabbing liars GOPe will snivel and whine about being left out in the cold.

Ray said...

I would agree with you, but for Breitbart.

>I predict that, in the future, the American people will never again give the GOP a
> majority.

We will see what happens Tuesday.

And there may be a lot of changes due to primaries before the 2018 election for the GOP.

At this time, I see the GOP as less dysfunctional than the Democrats, and doing a much better job at the State Level, that is basically the farm team for Congress. Until the Democrats move away from identity politics, I don't expect much change. And the MSM every day is losing clout, which hurts the Democrats.

And John McCain will not be around forever.

And every year, Obamacare premium goes up and up.

eric said...

McCain is going to be dead in six months. He is thinking about being loved right now. He isn't thinking about everyone else.

So let the guy have his love. He won't be around much longer.

Ray said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Ray said...

James Smith I was reading Judicial Watch also filed suite, but DC stopped asking if a small business, was actually a small business. Which allowed congress to keep on being classified as a small business.

And unfortunately the names of who certified congress was a small business, were redacted.

www.washingtonexaminer.com/congress-illegal-and-egregious-obamacare-exemption-explained/article/2633383

Tried to make it a live link, but tech issues.

HoodlumDoodlum said...

Look: no Democrats are going to agree to reform Obamacare. No Democrats are going to do anything to seriously scale Obamacare back. Saying "well we have to work in a bipartisan manner and I won't agree to any actions to change Obamacare if they're done on a party-line basis" is the same thing as saying "I refuse to do anything to reform or replace Obmacare."

But McCain et al. didn't say that. They said "we want to repeal and replace Obamacare." If McCain didn't intend to vote for anything that would only pass with Republican votes why the fuck wouldn't he have said that earlier? This is the third round of this shit--NOTHING the Republicans could possibly have passed to repeal Obmacare would have ever gotten any Democrat votes.

Fuck this "it's his conviction, it's his moral code" bullshit. If that was his code he could have announced that earlier and taken whatever criticism he would have received then. That at least would have saved the party this repeated humiliation.

mockturtle said...

Ray suggests: And there may be a lot of changes due to primaries before the 2018 election for the GOP.

I hope so. I intend to do my part, certainly supporting Flake's GOP opponent in the Senate primary.

HoodlumDoodlum said...

mockturtle said... Confusion and personality changes are frequent symptoms. McCain has become nuttier than a vegan's turd the last few years

Naaah, he's not confused. He's getting what he wanted. He wanted to scuttle it, and he did. No reason for removal there.

Dust Bunny Queen said...

McCain is going to be dead in six months.

Not soon enough.

He is thinking about being loved right now. He isn't thinking about everyone else

He always has been a selfish prima donna, who thought only of himself. No surprise.

HoodlumDoodlum said...

Anyway it's wrong to focus on McCain. I kinda doubt he was the actual deciding vote--call me cynical but I'd bet if he went for it one of the others would have tubed it. McCain gets to be a hero to the nice people now and probably gives cover to a couple other Repub. Senators who are glad the bill didn't pass.

It's the job of the party leadership to line up the votes and get party consensus to move legislation like this through. They are unable to get that done after saying "if only we had a President who wouldn't veto our great bills we'd sure get a lot of great things done" for YEARS. It's pathetic.

Earnest Prole said...

McCain treacherously betrayed fellow Republicans in the short term, but in the long term he may have saved them. Health care will be a train wreck regardless of whether Obamacare stays or goes; Republicans will bear direct responsibility only if they vote to change existing law (for which Democrats bear sole responsibility).

Tank said...

A very small man.

Khesanh 0802 said...

@chuck Two ways to look at that Murkowski thing. Your way or my way which is she got the message loud and clear and sure as hell wasn't going to compound the felony by bad mouthing Zinke.

HoodlumDoodlum said...

Pretty great how action in the Legislature comes down to how McCain feels about a topic on a given day, action in the Judiciary comes down to how Kennedy feels about a topic on a given day, and action in the Executive comes down to how Trump feels about what he saw on morning TV or heard from his daughter about a topic on a given day.

Just a terrific government we've got for ourselves here. Top notch.

walter said...

Somehow..modeling inclusive legislating to the hair on fire folks seems like unilateral disarmament.
But hey..at least TRUMP loses, right?

Birkel said...

McCain is the Republican president for whom I did not vote.

Good job, younger me.

HoodlumDoodlum said...

YT: John McCain Campaign ad 2016

While Kirkpatrick's "proud" of putting us at risk, John McCain is leading the fight to stop Obamacare.

LEADING THE FIGHT! "I won't vote for something that's not fully bipartisan" is not exactly LEADING THE FIGHT, is it?

But yeah, tell me more about how Trump saying outrageous things during his campaign and not delivering is uniquely toxic and will harm the Republican brand.

The Toothless Revolutionary said...

So Lindsey Graham’s being his best friend was not enough.

He says he wants regular order, which makes sense for a senator thinking about his soon-to-be significant legacy about legislation opposed by 83% of America.

But I get it. Why shouldn't a man whose health care is paid for to treat his own brain tumor wrench all but 90 seconds of debate out of a deliberative legislative process when the end result that the gerrymandered party of deception aims for is to price tens of millions of Americans out of the healthcare market and to shower the monies from those lost subsidies into the pockets of billionaires?

Republicans want to kill Americans. It's a simple fact. That's how strong and warped their priorities are and that's why they will stop at nothing to make sure they have as much power as the courts and congress will allow them to get away with. That's why they will do everything they can to keep the voting districts from becoming competitive and to reduce access to the polls. Their anti-American people ideology requires nothing less if they're to retain their tyranny over the majority.

The Toothless Revolutionary said...

"McCain is going to be dead in six months."

Not soon enough.


Wow.

It must really suck to lack the charisma and power and goodwill necessary for a platform from which to vote for a bill with 17% approval to deprive tens of millions of Americans of the care they need to stay healthy and alive.

The Toothless Revolutionary said...

In the face of this kind of behavior by the Democrat leadership..

Right. BEHAVIOR! Lol.

A steadfast refusal to go against the wishes of 83% of Americans to price tens of millions of the country out of the health coverage market.

You people are not only nuts and crazy. You're downright evil. Cruelty like this hasn't been sought as a measure to exact upon one's own populace since the Nazis.

The Toothless Revolutionary said...

He promised repeal.

Anyone who would seek to deprive care for so many Americans should have his own medical license repealed.

The Toothless Revolutionary said...

John McCain sacrificed an awful lot for my freedom. In fact, they showed part of his interview from his hospital bed in Hanoi where he was recovering from two broken arms and a broken leg - the narrator said they set his bones without so much as an aspirin. Pretty unforgettable to see him from that perspective.

He pretty much gets a pass for anything he does after that, as far as I'm concerned.


But the crowd here is Republicans. The last thing they understand or respect is sacrifice. Their entire raison d'ĂȘtre is to sow contempt for those with less than them and to worship anyone with more than they have.

And that's why courage is also something they entirely lack and don't understand.

The Toothless Revolutionary said...

McCain has health insurance. Why should he want to make it affordable?

Probably because unlike you he actually has a legacy to worry about.

Khesanh 0802 said...

@Matthew Sablan Today's WSJ had a front page piece : www.wsj.com/articles/trump-backers-cheer-economic-agenda-blame-gop-for-setbacks-1506078002. Contrary to Hillary's opinion we aren't stupid. We know here the problem lies and it is not with Trump.

Khesanh 0802 said...

@Hoodlum Doodlum You are absolutely right on-you have been all afternoon-but your blood pressure must be sky rocketing. Go have a couple of beers and a good dinner. Tomorrow is another day!

Khesanh 0802 said...

Besides Ritmo is here now. Intelligent conversation is ended.

tim in vermont said...

When he was running for president though, he was Republican scum, now the lefties all love him because he is ignoring the people who voted for him, and supported him for pres, but if he ran again? He would be scum again.

The Toothless Revolutionary said...

Intelligent conversation is ended.

Clearly. Killing millions of Americans prematurely over the objection of 83% of the country is such an obviously intelligent course of action. I guess that's why they all hate it, right? You calling your country stupid?

Republicans couldn't do this much harm to America if they tried. You go ahead and outline the "intelligent" case for repeal.

Your biggest secret is how emotional all your party's priorities really are. There's nothing rational about any of it.

tim in vermont said...

But I guess hus legacy of forcing nuns to pay for birth control and abortions will be worth it.

gadfly said...

When we had the Louisiana Purchase and the Cornhusker kickback, bribes were fine for Democrat liberals - but Republicans cannot have the "Alaska Purchase."

But the biggest problem here is the big lie about 21 million loosing coverage if ACA goes away. Adding all years, the Obama plan added only 16.5 million to the insured list and that has declined by half a million in 2017. Health care premiums for the unsubsidized policy holders has made a joke of the process. How about premiums at $1,200 per month and a $12,000 deductible before any coverage kicks in? You simply cannot afford to avail yourself of professional help and many have been convinced that the law says you must do this. The remaining choice is to pay the 2.5% penalty against annual income and seek service at emergency wards. So "insured" doesn't mean "coverage" when premiums are on the moon.

Senators have, through unknown means, reaped wealth and pensions from long service and they have provided good health policies for themselves. But John McCain didn't get any smarter from brain surgery and a shortened life span - but he is willing to continue to screw his constituents.

Eight years ago we got along fine with private health coverage and we can return to that condition by simply repealing Obamacare. We had free coverage at emergency rooms and that will always be there.

The Toothless Revolutionary said...

He would be scum again.

He's independent and respects the vision of congressional procedure as created by the Founders. Two things that right-wing people hate with a vengeance.

Narayanan Subramanian said...

Question: can citizens go after Small business aka Congress for fraud under

https://white-collar-crime.lawyers.com/honest-services-fraud.html

This can be epic legacy for lawyer with principle.

The Toothless Revolutionary said...

..16.5 million to the insured list and that has declined by half a million in 2017.

Thanks to the knives you've taken out to the throats of the insurers.

Narayanan Subramanian said...

What say you Professora?

HoodlumDoodlum said...

Khesanh 0802 said...@Hoodlum Doodlum You are absolutely right on-you have been all afternoon-but your blood pressure must be sky rocketing. Go have a couple of beers and a good dinner. Tomorrow is another day!

Thanks, I appreciate it--I try to remember that very little of this kind of stuff matters much in my day-to-day life and even the parts that do/will aren't things I can have any actual influence over.

Have a good weekend, everyone! (Even the haters and losers)

narciso said...

No its a net 10 million, that 160% from the 2013 projections.thw brookings one are and even more ridiculous 220% off.

Narayanan Subramanian said...

What say you President Trump?

Narayanan Subramanian said...

Will Jeff Sessions be prosecutor or defense?

Narayanan Subramanian said...

What say you Judicial Watch?

The Toothless Revolutionary said...

Eight years ago we got along fine with private health coverage...

Hahahahahahahahhahahahahahahahahahhahahahah!!!!

Keep lying to the people.

Etienne said...

...he actually has a legacy to worry about.

Actually, the Senate is just pounding their pud. Nothing is going to happen.
McCain is smart to get out from under his fellow millionaire senators for life's sing-along.

bgates said...

I criticized all of those backroom shenanigans by the Dems.

Why wouldn't I have the same criticisms, if Republicans did the same?


Reminds me of William F Buckley's line about equating the KGB and the CIA - "the equivalent of saying that the man who pushes an old lady into the path of a hurtling bus is not to be distinguished from the man who pushes an old lady out of the path of a hurtling bus: on the grounds that, after all, in both cases someone is pushing old ladies around".

bgates said...

courage is also something they entirely lack, Dickless typed, bravely.

victoria said...

I'm giving McCain the big thumbs up!!! If anyone ever thought he would vote for that piece of bad trash, they should have their head examined.

Vicki from Pasadena

GRW3 said...

Maybe he is the Manchurian candidate after all. Didn't win the Presidency (I'm starting to think we dodged a bullet) but he's in place to stifle actions that could help revive the country. Liar, liar, pants on fire.

The Toothless Revolutionary said...

let's hear it for bgates, bringing up the laughs for the under-13 crowd.

never accuse a reactionary American conservative of being mature.

Michael K said...

"Besides Ritmo is here now. Intelligent conversation is ended."

Yup. Bye.

john said...

Blogger The Toothless Revolutionary said... Hahahahahahahahhahahahahahahahahahhahahahah!!!!

Canada's not much better.

So there.

The Toothless Revolutionary said...

None of them are perfect. But none of them spend double the amount as we do.

France's was the best, and probably still is. It takes a fair degree of micromanaging, which America started to do with how it restructured reimbursements. The pricing still has to be solved, but removing access is the wrong "answer."

It's good to see Michael K Nursemaid Suckler is still clamoring for the door to not slam on his ass. But I'm sure he has ALL the answers on American healthcare. (Especially intelligent ones).

They're right up there along with the little pink elephants that dance above his field of vision when someone spikes the Nursemaid milk.

Birkel said...

President Trump should issue an executive order that the Obama-Insurance law will be followed to the T.

Imagine how happy TTR will be if Obama gets his way, good and hard.

The Toothless Revolutionary said...

It's exceedingly funny how Michael K confuses "intelligence" with respecting him and stupidity with whatever disrespects him.

It is but to laugh. Amazing how needy these right-wingers are when it comes to ego gratification. I must have grown up less deprived then they did.

Unknown said...


Obamacare de-evolution is working as the Dims wanted:

now "life and death" are national political decision, emotionally demagogued from comedy / news shows as coached by the Dem leaders.

Politicians along now save the brokenhearted babies: the only question allowed is who can give away the most.

Even the rapid market failure of their Big Solution becomes the predicted pivot to "Single Payer" - "we just didn't take over enough".

As everyone can't have everything, the inevitable final move is to wage/price controls and rationing... Or just run up the deficit and hope the bill never comes.

That is how legislatures "fix" their economic problems.

The free market ended in 1965 when Medicare perverted market allocation, disconnecting "what you pay from what you get".

Its simply taken this long for the system to rot from the inside out.

Drago said...

LLR: "Admittedly, I'd go a lot easier on Republicans. I'm a partisan. A Republican. I want Republicans to win"

LOL

TwilightofLiberty.com said...

So the future of American health care rests with an elderly person with brain cancer.

Solid.

Unknown said...

mcain should change his name to sausage, because all he talks about is the wonder of bipartisan committees. Some "Maverick". Time has passed for that game and for senile old farts.

3rdGradePB_GoodPerson said...

"...an elderly person with brain cancer."

I'm fairly sure that I'm not the only person who is now seeing dotards everywhere, but we know it'd be lame to use that word cause it's been runed. So, we're stuck w/ the less apt alternatives.

Sucks.

Birkel said...

I enjoy when Leftists Collectivists use the insults of communist dictators who threaten the United States.

Thanks, PB&J.

Propaganda for Leftist Collectivists all around.

Eric Landgraf said...

Regrettably, if a major recession occurs in the USA in the coming year, our international creditors maybe the ones demanding that we streamline our entitlements as a Quid Pro Quo for further debt relief. We are dangerously over extended and we are in no position to carry further debt.

Forget Wall Street's recent rise. The earnings are not really there to support the current stock prices. These stocks, especially the FAANG stocks, are being sustained aloft by the miracle solvents known as hopeium, enchantium and mysterium. Soon or later the pixie dust ceases to work and reality reasserts itself. Neither, Europe, the Oil Exporting nations, India, China or Japan have the wherewithal to prop up the US dollar and our stock and bond markets.

When the market descends we will face a severe currency and debt crisis. At that time the entitlement train will end its journey. It is then that the generous benefits of the ACA will come to their long over due end. If things can go on they won't.

3rdGradePB_GoodPerson said...

Birk (and other slow people),

I said that the word can't be used because of that.

Check the typo: "it's been rUNed"

Michael said...

OK. OCare is here until it isn't. Democrats own it. They claim to love it. Now the millions who die are being murdered by the Dems. Let them choke on their premiums. i am in concierge medicine now. Post OCare the waiting rooms were jammed with people who had the sniffles, the doctors were swamped with healthy people trying out their insurance. My doc left to open his own pay as you go and I followed. I have his cell number. Top that.

3rdGradePB_GoodPerson said...

"My doc left to open his own pay as you go and I followed. I have his cell number. Top that."

So, you have no insurance, you just pay as you go. What is there to top? Some bum living under a bridge has exactly the same thing you have. Re health insurance, how do you get lower than nothing? Perhaps your challenge should be "get less than I have."

Michael said...

3rd Grade
No bum, nor you, has the cell number of their doctor. I pay him out of pocket. I have double good private insurance for anything serious. For normal doctor visits I don't wait in lines. My doctor knows my name and knows the few issues I have. I get at least an hour in his office after my extensive annual physicals. He goes over my test results and advises me to do more of this and less of that. What you might get in the fourth grade should you get there.

The Toothless Revolutionary said...

So the future of American health care rests with an elderly person with brain cancer.

Right. The LAST thing the system needs is to be shaped by the people who understand the importance of being compassionate to those who need it most.

Instead we need to be compassionate to the billionaires. They have it so rough and just can't do anything for America without their fucking tax break. Kill healthcare give money to a billionaire. Makes perfect sense.

The Toothless Revolutionary said...

No bum, nor you, has the cell number of their doctor. I pay him out of pocket. I have double good private insurance for anything serious. For normal doctor visits I don't wait in lines. My doctor knows my name and knows the few issues I have. I get at least an hour in his office after my extensive annual physicals. He goes over my test results and advises me to do more of this and less of that. What you might get in the fourth grade should you get there.

Let's hear it for hedge-fund manager healthcare! The kind of system that leaves us paying $9,000 per capita instead of 50% that as is the case in all those developed nations where people live longer than we do and with less stress or complications. But then, the assholes couldn't get to think they're so much better than everyone else in the country if that were the case. I guess that's why we have to have a failed healthcare system. Because dipshits like Michael loves himself and hates his country.

Dickin'Bimbos@Home said...

Yes- TTR - leftwing democrats are very compassionate with bailing out mega insurance companies with our tax dollars, while our access to care turns to shit and the price goes up.

Sebastian said...

"A bill impacting so many lives deserves a bipartisan approach." Just like the ACA.

It would be so unfair to replace that gem of bipartisanship with a monopartisan substitute.

3rdGradePB_GoodPerson said...

"No bum, nor you, has the cell number of their doctor. I pay him out of pocket. I have double good private insurance for anything serious. For normal doctor visits I don't wait in lines. My doctor knows my name and knows the few issues I have. I get at least an hour in his office after my extensive annual physicals. He goes over my test results and advises me to do more of this and less of that. What you might get in the fourth grade should you get there."

I'm sorry, I misunderstood what you were saying.

So, you've discovered that rich folks get the best Four Seasons sorta care (even in the era of BHO care).

I suppose that next you'll tell us that it's stupid to fuss about airport security hassles because having a jet takes care of that problem.

Your wisdom is indispensable re policy decision re the country.

Michael said...

TTR
You misunderstand. Your envy clouds your thinking such as it could be. There is no possible way you can connect my personal approach to the serious issue of health care with the high cost of premiums for all of us. You might consider that the current high cost of "insurance" is related more to the current mandatory system inaugurated by Democrats. Blame them. BTW does your boyfriend slap you around every Friday, the day most think of as a time to relax and not be filled with stupid rage? He must. I would call the cops if he closes his fist.

3rdGradePB_GoodPerson said...

BTW Mike,

That you brag about the phone number of your Doc says somethin' that ya can't grasp re some of your fellow Americans.

Ha.

Michael said...

3rd Grade
Indeed. But yakking about "policy decisions" in the current environment is a waste of time. My very point. I pay extra to get out of the fucking mess of a system that has been created. Chat up a doctor. I pay out my ass for that. If you can't, then tough shit, or not. You have ObamCare and it is excellent on stilts so leave me the fuck out of it.

Michael said...

3rd
I get it entirely. You have encouraged, lauded, a system that you believe just dandy. Fine. Ask your doctor for his phone number. Go ahead, there is absolutely nothing preventing him from giving it to you. Except he won't. Get your congressman to make it mandatory that your doc can pick you out of a lineup.

3rdGradePB_GoodPerson said...

"I pay extra to get out of the fucking mess of a system that has been created. Chat up a doctor. I pay out my ass for that."

No you don't. Even a full time doc (or two) will be less than a mill a year. Who the F cares about that. Throw away dough.


Michael said...

3rd
As to air travel I would suggest you qualify for PreCheck then buy Clear which puts you at the front of the PreCheck line. Pro tip. You're welcome.

The Toothless Revolutionary said...

You misunderstand. Your envy clouds your thinking such as it could be. There is no possible way you can connect my personal approach to the serious issue of health care with the high cost of premiums for all of us. You might consider that the current high cost of "insurance" is related more to the current mandatory system inaugurated by Democrats. Blame them. BTW does your boyfriend slap you around every Friday, the day most think of as a time to relax and not be filled with stupid rage? He must. I would call the cops if he closes his fist.

Shorter America-Hating Michael: "I can't figure out why my country pays twice per capita for healthcare for worse outcomes but I can come up with ill-placed homophobic slurs and if I put in a plug for the party of billionaires then I've done as much as I know how to do."

3rdGradePB_GoodPerson said...

'I'm Mike, I pay less than fifty grand a year so I can call my Doc and not wait in line. I'm soooooooo rich. Nobody is a rich as me.'

Ha.

3rdGradePB_GoodPerson said...

WTF Mike,

Clear? That's less than $200/year. You jabber about that re owning a jet?

Now I'm feeling sorry for you.

Michael said...

TTR
Homophobic slurs? My good man, that is rather harsh. Perfectly straight people get slapped by their girlfriends. BTW, there is a difference between "healthcare" which I pay up for and "insurance" which is proving to be altogether different as we are finding out, no? Insurance is something you buy to protect against something that is going to happen or which might or might not happen. The extra we pay for "premiums" is directed towards paying for those who did not have the foresight to "insure" and thus are getting a subsidy, a big one. But you know that. Not a problem. We have ObamaCare so I am not so sure why you aren't celebrating the fact that it appears to be here to stay until we get "universal health care" LOL (which the better parts of the world where you do not choose to live have.)

Michael said...

3rd
I don't own a jet and why would I? I have friends who have them. Better. Not too bad to buy but very expensive to operate. Not my league. But no need, as I say.

PS . The cost of having a concierge doctor is not as expensive as you might imagine. But you don't need because you have, as we all are required to have, OCare. So why the resentment? Wait in line at the doc. Wait in line for the TSA. Get used to it comrade.

Michael K said...

Reading what Ritmo and shiloh have to say about health care will shrink your IQ after while.

Not recommended.

Michael said...

There is an interesting article in tomorrow's WSJ on the heavy burden of OCare on the poor.

The Toothless Revolutionary said...

...there is a difference between "healthcare" which I pay up for and "insurance" which is proving to be altogether different as we are finding out, no?

Well of course some idiot as sheltered as YOU are would just now be "finding that out." Anything that 90+% of the country requires for affordability reasons is something that you can't be bothered to know anything about - due to your hatred of America and how the vast majority of Americans live. Boutique specialty medicine practices exist. Well isn't that special? No one's saying you can't still have them. You had them before the ACA you'll have them once it's improved. (And how awesome it must be that you can move policy all-at-once without ever improving upon what came before it. That must be a really special skill and goes a ways in explaining why you'd never have the courage or integrity to run a public campaign with your own face on it). But again I just think it's really precious and swell that the lengths you go to to remain sheltered and in your bubble lead you to think that "premiums," "insurance," and subsidies are new concepts that no one understands and that must somehow ruin all that American healthcare for the vast numbers of Americans that you're just too precious and special to know much about.

The Toothless Revolutionary said...

Reading what Ritmo and shiloh have to say about health care will shrink your IQ after while.

You must spend a lot of time reading what we say, then. Probably every waking moment.

Michael said...

Michael K

Indeed. But I am taking myself out of the argument. OCare is here. Its a Dem deal. I am doing all I can to cut the lines, that's all. My doctor informs me that a huge percentage of people he now sees have nothing, absolutely nothing, wrong with them. I have a father in law who lives at the doctor's office since he got on Medicare. He never had insurance his entire life and suddenly he is out in Loma Linda getting zapped for prostate cancer and then dealing with the side effects which were not exactly fully understood. LOL. Read your book btw. Good stuff.

The Toothless Revolutionary said...

There is an interesting article in tomorrow's WSJ on the heavy burden of OCare on the poor.

As there will be every other weekend. And every fifth Wednesday and every second Tuesday. It's what they do. They're phony political partisan punditry hacks - and are running out of politicians that they can buy and control successfully. Wall Street's mission to the poor! Fucking hilarious!

Yep. It's those people on Wall Street who really care about the poor. That's what they're in it for! The poor!

Hilarious.

3rdGradePB_GoodPerson said...

"I don't own a jet and why would I? I have friends who have them. Better."

Since you shared the brilliant tip re Clear, here's a tip for you: Stop mooching if you want continue having those friends.

Just sayin'

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