September 7, 2017

Parole, at long last, for a Manson family member?

Leslie Van Houten, 68, has convinced a 2-member panel in Chino, California that, after 40 years, she has "radically changed her life and is no longer a threat to society" (NPR).
It was the 21st time that Van Houten has appeared before a parole board and the second time that commissioners found her suitable for release. The ruling must still be approved by the state parole board and Gov. Jerry Brown, who reversed another panel's ruling last year.
So the answer to the question in the post title is: NO.
"I feel absolutely horrible about it, and I have spent most of my life trying to find ways to live with it," Van Houten told the panel....

On the night of the attack nearly five decades ago, she said she held Rosemary LaBianca down with a pillowcase over her head as others stabbed her dozens of times. Then, ordered by Manson disciple Charles "Tex" Watson to "do something," she picked up a butcher knife and stabbed the woman more than a dozen times.

96 comments:

campy said...

Long as she lives in some deep blue area it's okay by me.

YoungHegelian said...

The more you know about Manson & his women the weirder it gets. Using his women as "sexual gifts" was a way Manson weaseled his way into many venues, e.g. Brian Wilson of the Beach Boys. There was an interview on NPR some years ago where the author of a new book on the Manson family said that Manson thought that any woman who wouldn't perform oral sex on command wasn't worth keeping around.

I have never understood the desire of some people to be totally submissive to another person.

Rick said...

Long as she lives in some deep blue area it's okay by me.

Maybe Cher will put her up.

Mike Sylwester said...

Several times on TV shows I have watched her tell about her experience.

She was young and foolish when she did it, and it was a very long time ago.

I think she should be released.

Gahrie said...

At long last?

Mike Sylwester said...

An important consideration for me is that she did not act on her own initiative. She acted because she was told to do so by Charlie Manson, whom she considered to be a kind and wise genius.

She believed Manson's teaching that a huge race war was about to begin and that these murders would somehow be a good thing to do in that situation. It didn't make any sense, but she was not able to think about his teachings rationally.

She was young and foolish and intellectually isolated. She didn't have anyone in her life who might raise questions in her mind about Manson's character and teachings.

tim in vermont said...

I think she should be released

Well, if she will give blow jobs on command, and tie down and stab women, maybe there is a guy in Chappaqua who might sponsor her parole.

tim in vermont said...

I think maybe 40 years is enough myself. Sirhan Sirhan can rot in jail 'til Hell is ready for him though.

exiledonmainstreet said...

"She was young and foolish when she did it"

No, being "young and foolish" means being 16 and thinking there might just be something to astrology, or taking up cigarette smoking, or getting drunk at a party and hopping into bed with someone you really don't care for. Many of us have been young and foolish. It does not mean holding another human being down and stabbing them to death.

I am always puzzled by the slack some men cut female murderers. Is it some sort of weird, misplaced chivalry?

If you are against the death penalty (I am not, although I understand and sympathize with the arguments against it), then life in prison should mean life in prison.

Quayle said...

What role did sexual politics play in her compliance?

Loosen one social structure, and others weaken also.

YoungHegelian said...

@exile,

Many of us have been young and foolish. It does not mean holding another human being down and stabbing them to death

Wait!? It doesn't?

Rut-Row......

Mike Sylwester said...

exiledonmainstreet at 2:41 PM

If you are against the death penalty ... then life in prison should mean life in prison.

I do approve of the death penalty, and I do generally agree that life in prison should mean life in prison.

As I said in a previous comment, she did not act on her own initiative and she was following a perverted teaching that she was doing a good deed in relation to an imminent race war.

Her being female is a relevant consideration because she was in a kind of a harem that collectively submitted itself to Manson sexually and intellectually. She was in an unusual situation.

When this group of young women was on trial, they all acted defiantly together. They were like the stupidest clique of high-school girls who ever might exist.

Maybe the judge should have split up that group of girls -- even conducted separate trials for each individual girl if he had to. The girls were not in their right minds to explain their actions and to defend themselves legally.

AJ Lynch said...

Tim's comment at 2:37 should break the internet!

Nonapod said...

I'm not particularly comfortable judging if it was right or wrong to release her now. I honestly don't have any idea. I mean... 4 decades is a long time, but she did brutally and remorselessly take a life. Is she currently a realistic threat to anyone? Has she been punished enough? Has justice been served? Should she have been put to death in the first place? It seems like a lot of people are able to come to quick answers to those questions.

The Cracker Emcee Activist said...

"It seems like a lot of people are able to come to quick answers to those questions."

I am. She should have been executed. What is the point of the State caging someone for 40 years? Unless they're at hard, productive labor.

Bay Area Guy said...

If you read about her, it's a somewhat sad and familiar template.

Middle-class girl, parents get divorced, family trauma, but probably a lot of it internalized and unspoken. She acts out, starts sleeping with boys, gets pregnant, gets an abortion, migrates towards a "hippie commune." But this one is dangerous because the alpha-male, Charlie Manson, is a low-life criminal, low-life drug dealer/user, and sex fiend.

Not mitigating what she did. Apparently, she held down the victims while the crazier Manson members stabbed them to death. She shoulda got the death penalty 40 years ago.

But, at age 68, is she a threat to society? Most likely not. Did she serve some serious time? Yes, she did.

I'm open to the parole.

Yancey Ward said...

I could support either decision. At her age, it is almost certain she is no danger at all to others, and she does seem remorseful to me. However, I could definitely support the idea that life in prison should mean life in prison literally for crimes such as these.

How many paroles has Brown approved where the crime was just as heinous and the criminal more likely to be a danger to society at large? Probably dozens by this point.

Mike Sylwester said...

The whole case was bizarre. The crimes were bizarre. The trial was bizarre.

The fact that their death penalties were canceled by the US Supreme Court was bizarre.

This case is a good example that sometimes exceptions might be made to general principles.

James K said...

"I feel absolutely horrible about it, and I have spent most of my life trying to find ways to live with it," Van Houten told the panel....

The wording suggests she's more sorry for herself than for the victims. Maybe some mention of Rosemary's children?

James K said...

But, at age 68, is she a threat to society? Most likely not.

So "life in prison" should mean "life until age 68 or so"? She probably isn't a threat, but that's not really the question. Punishment is supposed to deter as well as detain, and letting people off early reduces the deterrent value.

AllenS said...

If released, what on earth will she do? Will she be able to apply for social security, welfare benefits, free schooling with room and board?

Mike Sylwester said...

she's more sorry for herself than for the victims

Of course, she is more sorry for the victims.

She came to her senses decades ago.

If you ever get a chance to watch a TV show where she talks about her experiences, you will see that she is completely rational now.

Owen said...

Having a lot of trouble disagreeing with "exiled on Main Street":

Which is to say, you were not insane, you made a decision, you must live with the consequences.
For the
Life in prison is no fun, but life extinguished is no fun either.
As you labor to describe your hardships in the slammer, try to leave room for the unwritten poem, the unbegotten child, the unlived life.

I know: it's hard. You want to signal your virtue by praising or defending this other person. Who must have had good reasons for ripping the guts out of another human being.

MayBee said...

Nope.

A death sentence has to mean *something*.

Bay Area Guy said...

I know there's a lotta hype and fear about the Manson murders (deservedly so). At the time, they freaked out a lot of folks in Southern California.

But, it's important to recall, that Charlie Manson did not commit the murders. He wasn't on site. A good defense attorney likely could have gotten an acquittal on that charge.

Probably, they nailed Charlie for Conspiracy to Commit Murder.

Essentially, these were drugged out, hippies, absorbing into their fold social misfits and runaways. But Manson inserted a violent streak in the group. The hippies I grew up with were lazy, college dropouts, but not usually violent.

Etienne said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
MadisonMan said...

The wording suggests she's more sorry for herself than for the victims. Maybe some mention of Rosemary's children?

What was the question that she's answering? Absent knowing that, it's hard to comment on the answer given.

Bay Area Guy said...

I don't have a strong point opinion on her parole. I'm just glad she did 40 years

Tarrou said...

The "not a threat" bullshit has got to stop. That is not the point of punishment. If I shoot you in the face, and then super-duper pinky swear never to do it again, should I be released immediately?


Cases like this are built for the death penalty.

Left Bank of the Charles said...

Finding her suitable to release and then not releasing her, what an ingenious way for California to compound the punishment. This could become an annnual ritual.

zipity said...

Well, as long as she feels bad about it, sure, let's let a cold blooded murderer out of jail.

She shouldn't still be drawing breath as far as I'm concerned.

Brookzene said...

Mercy helps make us human.

Paul J said...

"I feel absolutely horrible about it, and I have spent most of my life trying to find ways to live with it," Van Houten told the panel....

The wording suggests she's more sorry for herself than for the victims. Maybe some mention of Rosemary's children?

****************************************

Seems unlikely that the quote above is the entirety of her statement. People just have to find something to pick at.

zipity said...

"Mercy helps make us human."

As long as those who we grant it to deserve it...

Brookzene said...

If released, what on earth will she do? Will she be able to apply for social security, welfare benefits, free schooling with room and board?

Probably. And probably a it's all a lot cheaper than keeping her in a max security prison.

Unknown said...

Look, all she has to do is declare that she is now a he, and he is actually a poor immigrant from Honduras who never got citizenship and she demands sanctuary.... the left would have to release her then, right? After all, aren't we all whatever we say we are?

The left lets illegal immigrant mass murderers go all the time. It's a point of honor with them. So just claim to be one, and in leftist california, you are golden.

Right?

--Vance

exiledonmainstreet said...

Just curious: would those in favor of her release also favor the release of Tex Watson? He is also old and probably harmless (he's an ordained minister now), he was young and stupid and brainwashed by Manson and he feels bad about what he did.

sparrow said...

"Mercy helps make us human."

As long as those who we grant it to deserve it...

If you deserve it then it's justice not mercy

James K said...

"Seems unlikely that the quote above is the entirety of her statement. People just have to find something to pick at."

As opposed to just blithely giving a cold-blooded murderer the benefit of the doubt? Absolutely.

MikeR said...

"She should have been executed. What is the point of the State caging someone for 40 years? Unless they're at hard, productive labor." Seems pretty obvious to me too. What is the point?

MaxedOutMama said...

Mike Sylwester wrote An important consideration for me is that she did not act on her own initiative. She acted because she was told to do so by Charlie Manson, whom she considered to be a kind and wise genius.

Your arguments for mitigation would apply to young Nazi recruits who committed mass murder of Jews or Gypsies or other Lebensunwerten. The ISIS idiots with their snuff flicks for Allah have the same belief system. KKK lynchers believed the bleeping same - that they were serving a higher purpose.

It's not a very respectable philosophy and I would argue that it makes her more dangerous and not less dangerous. There are always people in the world who will be the tools of destruction. No one forced her to do this. She was defending Manson in the first trial. She was a true believer in murder. And basically, in some hazy way, in murder on racial grounds. The purpose was to cause a race war. That's what she enlisted in service of, that's the cause she defended in court, and that's the dude she considered "kind and good".

I'd say she and Dylann Roof are two of kind. Their respective crimes are very similar - it's just that the Manson family killed whites. Just because she's a woman doesn't mitigate a damned thing. The facts are ugly. If Roof is not executed, he should never get out of jail. I don't think she should ever get out of jail. I applaud Governor Brown for having the guts to negate the parole decision last year.

I will go further and convey my suspicion that you would never come to this judgment in relation to a man who committed racially motivated murders.

Quaestor said...

"Mercy helps make us human."

As long as those who we grant it to deserve it...


Mercy granted only to those deserving of mercy is simply justice. Mercy is sublime because it is given to those deserving punishment.

Leslie Van Houten was sentenced to die in the San Quentin gas chamber. The California Supreme Court later ruled the death penalty unconstitutional, thus granting Van Houten mercy of a sort. (The California High Court thought they were being just. Many think they were being foolish.)

Her death sentence vacated, Van Houten was retried twice. She was finally sentenced to life with the possibility of parole, the standard capital penalty in California (another bit of left/liberal injudiciousness that has made Charles Manson the continuing burden on society that he is). Houten is asking for justice, or more precisely what purports to be justice in California, a state that routinely punishes the thrifty and enterprising without benefit of law, not mercy.

exiledonmainstreet said...

It's easy to be merciful when you have no skin in the game.

What about justice?

"Doris Tate's assessment of Manson, Watson, Atkins, Krenwinkel and Van Houten was that their crimes were so vicious as to warrant execution. Addressing Charles Watson at his 1984 parole hearing, she said, "What mercy, Sir, did you show my daughter when she was begging for her life? What mercy did you show my daughter when she said give me two weeks to have my baby and then you can kill me? ... When will Sharon come up for parole?... "

Doris Tate is now dead, but her daughters - Sharon's sisters - have continued to oppose granting parole to any Manson family members.

MaxedOutMama said...

Brookzene - mercy for those who commit mass murder as the means to create more mass murder by exploiting racial tensions? I would argue that being allowed to live out her life is a great mercy.

I do not know what good value system is served by allowing any of these people to walk freely on the streets While they were young and had the world at the fingertips, chose to commit mass murder on the theory that it would cause a race war upon the end of which they would wind up ruling the world or the country.

The sheer evil of their vision ranks up right up there in world history.

You're defending Dylann Roof. I don't know how you CAN.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Helter_Skelter_(Manson_scenario)

Do you want to explicate?

TWW said...

Twenty-eight is not "young and foolish".

But sixty-eight can be old and foolish.

Jim at said...

"She didn't have anyone in her life who might raise questions in her mind about Manson's character and teachings."

Tough. Shit.

Let her rot.

Jim at said...

"Mercy helps make us human."

Tell that to the LaBiancas.

Bay Area Guy said...

Good points made by the law & order crowd here.

I'm leaning towards No Parole.

Also, for the record, she was sentenced to death, which was blocked when the leftwing Cal Supreme Court abolished the death penalty in 1972. However, the people voted by Initiative to reinstate the Death Penalty, so there was this bizarre gap in the law, which spared LVH's life.

tcrosse said...

"Mercy helps make us human."

Mercy even for the memory of Robt. E. Lee ?

Krumhorn said...

I really don't see this as a mercy argument. If it were, she should probably be released. But I see it as a justice issue. We are far too blasé about the punishment of murderers whose collection of tearful recitations of abuse, stupidity, youth, drug use, passion, or mental health and regret are liturgical. Left out of the weighing are those final agonizing moments on this planet of the terrorized victims for whom mercy was not available and whose futures were suddenly truncated while their family and friends endlessly grieved.

Justice would either mean the death penalty, or failing that, incarceration until any future for the murderer is also lost. I don't see any justice in letting a murderer live out the balance of his or her life in freedom. It just doesn't add up to the gravity of the offense.

- Krumhorn

dda6ga dda6ga said...

Tyburn Tree

Bay Area Guy said...

Yeah, in this case, justice should trump mercy. She should die in jail.

n.n said...

Lack of privacy and processing in an unlicensed chamber will get you life in prison or an elective abortion.

David said...

Not a threat to society?

Not a benefit either, it seems to me, especially her example if free.

I think she's in the right place for now. Now meaning the rest of the time she can breathe.

buwaya said...

MaxedOutMama is right.
Mercy is not a quality the state or public can show, this would simply be preening, a show of virtue not its substance.
Mercy through forgiveness is a matter for the personally aggrieved.

Gospace said...

AllenS said...
If released, what on earth will she do? Will she be able to apply for social security, welfare benefits, free schooling with room and board?


She can join Bill Ayers and Bernadine Dohrn as a college professor teaching America's children.

The Godfather said...

Unlike some commenters, I believe in and support capital punishment in extreme cases. If there ever was an extreme case, it was the Manson murders. This woman should, in justice, have been executed for what she did. Just think about the innocent woman that she killed. Nobody is giving Rosemary LaBianca a chance to live out her golden years in freedom. No, she's dead, dead, dead.

It doesn't matter if Leslie Van Houten has "radically changed" her life. I hope she has. I believe that through the death of Jesus her soul will be saved, and like the criminal who was crucified next to Jesus, she will be with him in Paradise. But in this world and in this life she should receive, if not the the punishment that her crime merited, at least the next closest thing, imprisonment until she dies.

Unknown said...

he more you know about Manson & his women the weirder it gets. Using his women as "sexual gifts" was a way Manson weaseled his way into many venues, e.g. Brian Wilson of the Beach Boys.

That's *Dennis* Wilson, the middle Wilson Brother and the band's drummer. In his recent autobiography, Mike Love says Dennis's contact with the group as they were trying to cultivate music industry ties haunted him for the rest of his life and possibly led to his downward spiral and death.

Never Learn Not To Love, Dennis's (the only writer credited) slight rewrite of Manson's "Cease To Exist". Actually it's a pretty good song.

Dickin'Bimbos@Home said...

In the case of all such heinous murders - It's not about rehabilitation, it's about retribution.
She should be put to death or spend all her days inside a cell.

The panel is pussy.

Dickin'Bimbos@Home said...

Do her victims get a say?

Sacto_Dave said...

Back during that time I spent a couple of years hanging with a group of kids that were using meth and crank and lots of LSD. I was young and foolish, aimless and depressed. No matter how crazy it got, and it got reaaly crazy, if someone told me to get in a car and go kill some random strangers I would have run, not walked, as fast as I coul out of there.. Even stoned out your mind you know right from wrong if anybody ever taught it to you.

Howard said...

The fucking bitch needs to rot in prison until dead. To err is human, to forgive divine. People supporting forgiveness are virtue signalling their god complex. The only clemency she deserves is a shank to the belly then death by sepsis.

Michael K said...

One of those girls had appendicitis when I was a resident at LA County Hospital at the tme/ I was very happy I did not have to deal with her. She is just fine where she is.

Ralph L said...

What's really irritating is that so many murderers just as evil have done much less time.

Ralph L said...

I'm glad to see so many true feminists here not giving her a pass for being a fucked up female.

What happened to the male family members?

wild chicken said...

I am 68. I was 20 when this happened.

She was no kid. She's either retarded or extraordinarily evil.

Howard said...

Blogger tcrosse said..."Mercy helps make us human."
Mercy even for the memory of Robt. E. Lee ?

I don't think anyone is proposing that a statue of Leslie Van Houten be placed in the La Bianca's survivor's town square. Other than that, great point.

Brookzene said...

Mercy granted only to those deserving of mercy is simply justice. Mercy is sublime because it is given to those deserving punishment.

Thanks for this eloquence. Mercy is sublime yet mercy helps make us human. Theologians will know more than me what to make of this, but I think it's that humans have some sublimity to them. That's where you'll find mercy.

Ken B said...

Is Manson himself a threat? So maybe that's not much of a reason for parole then. It's a negative factor only: if you're a threat no release.

William said...

Probably better that she die in prison, but, if she should make parole (doubtful), she will have spent most of her life in prison. If she had committed an equally heinous but less notorious murder, she would probably make parole. The take away lesson from this is that we should never murder movie stars, no matter how much the temptation or provocation.

exiledonmainstreet said...

The take away lesson from this is that we should never murder movie stars, no matter how much the temptation or provocation.

9/7/17, 7:40 PM

The fact that Tate (who was a B list star) and some of her glamorous friends were murdered certainly made the murders even more notorious, but I think the Manson family murders would have gotten national publicity even if they had chosen the home of someone who was not a beautiful blonde actress. The weirdness of the Family, the hypnotic hold Manson had over his followers, the chilling spectacle of young women giggling and being flippant about the brutal murders they had committed truly shocked people. Remember, the murders occurred not long after Altamont. Together, those events displayed the seamy underside of the '60's counter-culture. I was a kid then, but I remember TV shows portraying hippies as rather comical, but basically harmless slackers who smoked dope, talked about peace, needed baths and haircuts and said "Oh, wow, man, groovy" all the time. The Manson Family were violent hippies who wanted to start a race war. That frightened people. Some of them had come from seemingly normal middle class backgrounds and small town America - how did they become monsters?

That is what I remember adults discussing, not Sharon Tate's celebrity status.

Oh, and pray tell, what "temptation or provocation" occurred? Tate and her doomed friends were just sitting around at her house. They had never laid eyes on their attackers before.

Even if they had, what "temptation or provocation" would justify murdering them? I think Sean Penn is an asshole but I don't want to kill him.

exiledonmainstreet said...

And Brookzene ignored MaxedOutMama's reply:

"Brookzene - mercy for those who commit mass murder as the means to create more mass murder by exploiting racial tensions? I would argue that being allowed to live out her life is a great mercy. "

As buwaya noted some people just can't resist moral preening.

Job said...

Whenever leftists promise "life without the possibility of parole," remember this.

After a couple decades, whatever heinous crime some savage committed seems like it happened 1000 years ago.

Hey, why not parole her? All she did was hold some poor young woman down for other people to stab her and then she picked up a butcher knife and stabbed the woman too. That's all. Just a few minutes of terror and pain for some innocent young woman, the end of her life, the grief of her parents, loved ones and friends. A father who wakes up in the middle of the night for decades crying for his daughter. No biggie.

exiledonmainstreet said...

Job, Leftists just love victims - except for the actual victims of criminals. Then their hearts go out to the criminals, not to the innocent ones who suffered horribly and their families, who have a hole in their hearts that will never be healed.

Brookzene calls that being "merciful."

glenn said...

That 60's generation has much to answer for. If she lived in GlennWorld she'd have been in the green room at San Quentin along with all her mooks friends.

Dickin'Bimbos@Home said...

They all should have been put to death decades ago. Retribution.

chickelit said...

Jerry Brown will put a fork in her parole. She's done. Wild!

James K said...

This may seem like a catch-22, but the fact that she keeps trying to get parole tells me she doesn't really feel so bad for what she did. If she's so ashamed and feels so terrible she ought to be accepting her punishment, or just off herself.

virgil xenophon said...

Agreed, "DickenB", Agreed.

exiledonmainstreet said...

James K said...
This may seem like a catch-22, but the fact that she keeps trying to get parole tells me she doesn't really feel so bad for what she did. If she's so ashamed and feels so terrible she ought to be accepting her punishment, or just off herself."

That's a good point. That's why, even though I don't presume to see into the hearts of the convicted, I have always been a bit leery of those who seek parole for terrible crimes and say they've repented and found God. (Van Houton hasn't said that, but certainly others, including Tex Watson, have.)

It seems to me a genuine convert would say, "I am now a Christian and because of that, I realize the full horror of what I did and I know my punishment is just. I hope for forgiveness from God when I die, but I don't deserve parole in this life. I will devote myself to trying to change the hearts of others in prison."

That strikes me as a more genuine expression of remorse than "I'm really sorry I did it, I've found Jesus, please let me go."

Trumpit said...

"Several times on TV shows I have watched her tell about her experience.

She was young and foolish when she did it, and it was a very long time ago.

I think she should be released."

Brainwashing, and mind control are real phenomena. It was terrible what she did, but it doesn't strike me as premeditated murder. People who commit premeditated murder should be put to death or lock up for life without parole depending on how heinous the crime was. In California, we have murder with special circumstance. Special circumstance #19 is intentionally poisoning someone to death. My mother was poisoned to death with morphine by two doctors to hide the (temporary) side effects of the tranquilizer Ativan.

The killers are still practicing medicine more than 5 years after the fact. The most culpable of the two, a male hospitalist, should be put to death for pure evil. His co-conspirator should be given 20 years because she BECAME evil, after panicking greatly, following the other guy's lead. Three ER nurses who followed illegal orders to put my mother on a morphine pump and alter the medical records to conceal the fact that my mother was on observation when she experience the bad reaction to the Ativan, should be give at least five years in the penitentiary, in her son's humble opinion. He was at his resting mother's bedside when the nurses followed telephone order to overdose his mother on a continuous morphine pump. My repeatedly said she had 0/10 pain level in the medical records. Morphine is used for severe pain, and to kill people.

Michael K said...

Some friends of mine, a very well known physician, lived next door to the LaBiancas. One the other side of his house was a rock music promoter that Manson knew and where he had sent his little band. The guy was not home and then, as they waited for Charlie to tell them what to do, the LaBiancas arrived home from the river.

I remember the incident well. The randomness was what got everyone upset. There was no motive,

She should die in prison.

William said...

I recently saw a documentary on the man who wrote "The Anarchist's Cookbook". This book gives detailed, illustrated instructions on how to make bombs and various other instruments of death and destruction. The person who wrote it was nineteen years old and it was written at peak "revolution for the hell of it" sixties. He researched the material at the NY Public Library. He had no experience in weaponry, but apparently some of his devices work because they've been used successfully.......The writer cashed a few royalty checks and then sold all rights to some publishing firm. He claims to be appalled by the uses to which the book has been put. He wants the book to be suppressed and taken out of print. I did mention that he cashed his royalty checks and no longer has a financial interest in the book......The man is now a retired special ed teacher. He seems like a decent and humane person. The person who wrote that book at nineteen no longer exists he claims.. But he did exist at one time, and that person caused a lot of damage. The Columbine shooters looked to his book for inspiration and helpful hints.,..,The retired special ed teacher claims that he was a lot like the Columbine shooters when he wrote the book--alienated, resentful and bullied. He looked genuinely rueful, but he seems to be managing his guilt very well. The conscience is wondrously adaptable.

GRW3 said...

This is why people resist ending the death penalty. No commuting death, regardless of how long it's been.

Simon Kenton said...

Exiledonmainstreet wrote:

...That's why, even though I don't presume to see into the hearts of the convicted, I have always been a bit leery of those who seek parole for terrible crimes and say they've repented and found God.
>>>>
A punk ran out into the street where my son was sitting in a traffic-blocked car, held a pistol to his head, and said he was going to kill him. He then ran off, and was caught cowering under a bed. Colorado allows the victim and relatives to make a statement before sentence is issued. So I was in court for some hours before I got to speak, and watched a series of prisoners come before the judge for sentencing. All were isolated, and none got to hear the others. But I did.

Every single one of them had found God (or Jesus) in prison. Every single one. What was instructive as well as comical was the way they looked confident and expectant when they announced it. The general take was, "Well, as long as I've found Jesus, what would be the point of punishing me? It would just be needlessly cruel. You need to let me go so I can get on with living my new saintly life, on the outside." They clearly felt that once they announced it, they had created a moral obligation on the part of Judge Barnhill to release them. I realized that this was a regular part of the Judge's life - day after day of scrotes appearing before him who had found Jesus and consequently expected - knew they deserved - release.

He sent them all up, every single one of them. And their expressions were enlightening: "What! Wait just a minute here. He didn't go for the Jesus ploy? But ... that's supposed to work. They're supposed to go for that Jesus shit." Of course, can't speak for the judge, but my guess is he was thinking, "Glad you found Jesus. He'll be a real comfort to you in the slammer." That's what I would have been thinking. Or something more cynical.

Rusty said...

Dickin'Bimbos@Home said...

"Do her victims get a say? "

No. They never do.
Unless you're a leftist. Then you can get the dead to say anything you want.

Rusty said...

You're saying that to release her is an act of mercy as if she is going to go out into the world and preach peace and understanding. Given her past she is more likely to act out here impulses and influence others to do so.

"If you ever get a chance to watch a TV show where she talks about her experiences, you will see that she is completely rational now. "

You know who else was seen as completely rational? Ted Bundy, John Gacey, any number of other murderous sociopaths.
The mercy is that she is still allowed to draw a breath and failing misadventure she will die of natural causes unlike her victims.

Jeff said...

The left lets illegal immigrant mass murderers go all the time.

Name one.

urbane legend said...

Dickin'Bimbos@Home said...
They all should have been put to death decades ago. Retribution.

No, not retribution. Retribution is vengeance, and generally the province of someone close to the victim. Justice is a balancing of the scales, and is the responsibility of the state.

If you steal my car you have cost me its value. Justice requires you return my car in the as taken condition, or you pay the cost of replacing it.

If X deliberately murders A, X has taken all that A naturally has. Material items can be replaced; that life cannot. Justice requires the balancing of the scales by the state taking the life of X. No other action balances the scales, no other action is justice, Depriving the murderer of freedom is not the equal of depriving the victim of life. This why the state has a responsibility to use the death penalty.

Rick said...

GRW3 said...
This is why people resist ending the death penalty.


We all know that someday some nice liberal will be willing to risk your life to prove his virtue.

Big Mike said...

Well, if I was on a jury deciding the sentence for a convicted murderer, now that I know that "life without parole" actually means "life behind bars until someone falls for your 'I've changed shtick," I'd be more inclined to vote for the death penalty.

Roughcoat said...

I vote for release. But keep Tex Watson in prison. He's a psychopath. He will always be a danger to people.

Bad Lieutenant said...

YoungHegelian said...

There was an interview on NPR some years ago where the author of a new book on the Manson family said that Manson thought that any woman who wouldn't perform oral sex on command wasn't worth keeping around.

And Hitler loved dogs. Even a broken clock is right twice a day.

Daniel Jackson said...

Chutzpah!

exiledonmainstreet said...

Roughcoat said...
I vote for release. But keep Tex Watson in prison. He's a psychopath. He will always be a danger to people.

9/8/17, 10:08 AM

Again, the soft spot some men have for female murderers astonishes me.

Karla Holomoka (sp), one of the most vile creatures on this planet, is free today while her partner in crime, is in jail because the Canadian cut a plea bargain with her. She helped her boyfriend kidnap, rape, torture and murder young girls, including Karla's own little sister.

Neither of them should be breathing today. Karla changed her name and moved to the Carribean after her release - and she had a baby. A son.

If she was reported as an Irma fatality, I'd clap and celebrate.

Gospace said...

There are all kinds of stories about "The Anarchist's Cookbook". One story is that one of the more early popular and widely circulated versions was published by the CIA as black ops. And the explosive recipes are like, almost correct. If you follow the recipes exactly in the book, they will blow up. While you're holding or mixing them, taking you out in the process.

And there is some credence to that, in that a lot of home made bomb makers over the years have suffered premature detonation, which, IMHO, is not a bad thing.

Be careful which version you download and use.....