According to Mike Allen and Jonathan Swan at Axios:
Among Republicans on Capitol Hill, "I've never heard members and senators so angry at the president of their own party," one durable Washington hand told me after yesterday's round of check-in calls.
But hate-watching "Morning Joe" down in the White House residence, President Trump was feeling cocky. His surprise deal with Democratic leaders may create midterm headaches for his party, but it's winning rave reviews from the academy....
"The academy" seems to refer to the NYT, specifically
"Energized Trump Sees Bipartisan Path, at Least for Now" by Peter Baker and Sheryl Gay Stolberg. Second paragraph at the NYT:
[Thursday morning, Trump] picked up the phone and called the two Democratic congressional leaders, Senator Chuck Schumer of New York and Representative Nancy Pelosi of California. “The press has been incredible,” he gushed to Ms. Pelosi, according to someone briefed on their call. He was equally effusive with Mr. Schumer, boasting that even Fox News was positive.
Speaking of the NYT, I enjoyed the morning podcast today. It's titled
"Trump’s New Prom Date: Democrats." Among other things, it suggests that Trump and Schumer are a lot alike, both "outer borough" New Yorkers, and that Trump misses New York and interacting with New York people, and Schumer knows how to be the guy to meet his needs. I assume both men think they know how to use and have fun with each other. Just look a
the now-iconic photograph.
Posts
232 comments:
1 – 200 of 232 Newer› Newest»I'm surprised it took this long to happen. In his heart Trump was always a New York Democrat.
I just (literally) finished reading an article in the Washington Examiner -- a conserv paper, if ever there was one -- that GOP Congresspeople prefer Trump's plan to Ryan's.
So, everyone's exuberant, apparently.
Interesting strategic move. Maybe Ryan and McConnell will roll over like they did with W.
As CNN says: The remarkable turn of events left Republican congressional leaders, in control of both chambers of the legislative branch, "shell-shocked" and "visibly annoyed," and showcased how a President who also authored "The Art of the Deal" actually cuts one.
As to the Republican congress, screw them. They have had more than ample time and strength to get stuff done and have been worthless. Trump gets stuff done. If the Republicans want to be taken seriously, they need to get off their asses and start getting stuff done...
Well hell's bells... the Republicans have been trying to torpedo Trump from day one. Trump got tired of them and, after all, he serves ALL the people.
I'm not shocked at all. If they Republicans won't work with Trump, why should he not work with some Democrats?
Art of the Deal; POTUS Trump just rendered Ryan and McConnell useless after their 6 week summer recess kicking the legislative work can down the road. Hope their voters send them packing the next time the com up for a vote.
That Democratic prom date is going to be quite surprised when they find out later in the evening Trump expects at least 8 of them to go to fifth base.
He magnificently broke the log jam in Congress. By joining in this perfectly timed needed vote with Dem's leaders in Congress, he has made it easy for another 9 Dem senators to vote for his stuff as Election 2018 approaches. And he just threw off the GOP RINO's pin hold like a good wrestler. No Filibuster death wishes will rule in Trump's DC.
Golly Mr. Trump - the press will like you when you give democrats whatever they want?
Normalizing Trump.
"shell-shocked" and "visibly annoyed,"
They were shell shocked and visibly annoyed when Ivanka walked into a meeting. Or is this the media lying again. We may never know.
What Trump did to the Republicans reminds me of this quote from The Watchmen:
“None of you understand. I'm not locked up in here with YOU. You're locked up in here with ME.”
I am Laslo.
I like it, too. I voted for Trump because he wasn't owned by anybody. He said he would be looking for solutions. The Republicans have shown little or no support so No surprise.
Just look a the now-iconic photograph.
This one's better.
https://twitter.com/byrdinator/status/905496464788467716
Rorschach: "You're Locked In Here With Me" - Watchmen
I am Laslo.
"But hate-watching "Morning Joe" down in the White House residence..."
I love this.
Hate-Watching is like Skull-Fucking: sometimes it is necessary.
I am Laslo.
As to the Republican congress, screw them. They have had more than ample time and strength to get stuff done and have been worthless. Trump gets stuff done. If the Republicans want to be taken seriously, they need to get off their asses and start getting stuff done...
They should have had bills written and waiting to be passed as trump was sworn in in January. They have has six years to prepare, and knew for months that the republicans would have total control of the federal government.
They should have had budget bills written and ready.
They should have had an immigration bill written and ready.
They should have had an Obamacare repeal written and ready.
They should have had tax reform written and ready.
But most damning of all...how can you pass Obamacare repeals when Obama would veto them, but now with increased majorities and Trump ready to sign it...all of a sudden an Obamacare repeal is impossible to pass?
Look I absolutely detest Pelosi, Schumer and Reid....but give them credit, they get shit done.
Now that we know lefties can work with Hitler...
Gahrie said...
Look I absolutely detest Pelosi, Schumer and Reid....but give them credit, they get shit done.
9/8/17, 8:17 AM
Agree 100% to both parts.
rehajm said... [hush][hide comment]
Now that we know lefties can work with Hitler...
9/8/17, 8:17 AM
I don't know if that is such a shock (except to the press), lefties have always work with Hitler, regardless of his incarnation...
Ryan is admired by the House GOP for being "good on policy," but he's been no good at cat-herding. It's not necessarily Ryan that needs to be replaced, it's the Majority Whip.
Normalizing Trump.
I know! How do you gear-shift from Hitler to Schumer pal so quickly?
Kind of a no-brainer move for Trump.
1. Makes the bipartisan move now, when Democrats are the minority party. Sooner or later Democrats might be in the majority again. Particularly if Republicans fail to repeal Obamacare. Would not shock me at all if Trump signs in some sort of free healthcare bill with a Democrat legislature. If Republicans fail to fix Obamacare, their voters will not vote for them. And Trump made noises about free health insurance in his campaign.
2. His agreement with Democrats appears to be procedural rather than substantive. Nothing in this deal offends any of his voters, as far as I can tell. And upsetting the Republican Congress? I think many in the base are hostile to the Congress for their failure on Obamacare. Good deal for Trump, bad deal for Republican Congress.
3. Press starts gushing on Trump, like they do on anybody who does anything liberal. Mainstream liberals (like NYT) forced to say nice things about Trump. Batshit crazy liberals have to rethink. Simple move like this might cause all these idiotic riots to cease. Bipartisan Trump! Not a bad idea at all, particularly when the underlying issue is of no importance. Good press without giving up anything. Nice move.
Sometimes you've got to reach out and grab Ryan and McConnell by the pussy.
Shit! I had forgotten that the whip is Steve Scalise, who's still in rehabilitation. Still, Trump has fired a shot across the bow of the warring factions inside the House GOP, so Scalise and his staff should be in a stronger position to get unity going forward.
I wonder how much goodwill this actually bought Trump. Or, if much like with Bush, McCain and every other bi-partisan offering from a Republican to the current Democrat Party, will he be promptly stabbed in the back and all his overtures forgotten once it is convenient?
It seems like a terrible political move and policy move for someone who wants to drain the swamp.
One word -- Winning.
The promise of Trump's candidacy has always been his ability to engage in Clinton-style triangulation meant to help realign the party. The GOP really needs to realize that Paul Ryan's "free market," small government agenda is not very popular among many GOP voters, even if it is loved by the Cato/Heritage/AEI set. For all of Trump's ballyhooed dealmaking prowess, his egoism and obsession with positive press are consistent obstacles. In other words, I'm still all in on Trumpism but remain as apprehensive as ever about Trump. Of course, if he can get the wall, E-VERIFY, visa tracking, and a reduction in immigration, anything else would just be icing on the cake.
I don't think it made much sense for Republicans to be perceived as withholding help for flood victims because they got into a political fight over the debt ceiling...again. Everyone knows it is going to be raised anyway, no matter what happens. Meantime you have people wading around their living rooms on national television. Trump did Ryan and McConnell a favor. This way Trump takes the hit for giving in to the Dems.
But that won't hurt Trump with his base because people hate traitors more than they hate their enemies and at this point, that's how many Trump supporters see Ryan and McConnell, et al. It only helps Trump with middle of the roaders because it makes him look like he's not extreme, that he can make Washington work.
The debt limit is a fake issue so Trump didn't lose anything. To avoid raising the debt limit you'd have to balance the budget, and we don't even have a budget, let alone one within political range of balance.
Its fakeness makes it a useful bargaining chip for media hysteria but either side can use it, depending on skill.
Trump's base hates the McConnell and Ryan already so it's all good.
Trump ended the crazy unfil hitler colluder meme by flattering the democrat leadership. What used to be called an ad hominem argument.
The Notion that President Trump is just like a New York Democrat, is as stupid as the notion that President Trump is a Republican. The President is not a political idealoge. He is a person that sees problems and seeks to fix them, without the constraints of ideology. Trump has always said he will work with anyone. President Trump will destroy long held conservative principles if it addresses his goals. Democrats that think that means he has moved on the political spectrum to the left, are just as delusional as the Republicans that believed he shared their vision. Don't know why this is a surprise, President Trump has never promised to adhere to any political agenda. My guess is Schumer and Polosi don't understand that President Trump is not bound by political manners, he will make them look like the crooks they are, if they refuse to horse trade away their Democrat bone fides as readily as the President has. (for the good of the childred).
I guess the Russian thing is over.
Debt ceiling issue seems to offer nothing but regular Kabuki Theater for pundits and fans of political wars. It was intended [?] to put the brakes on spending but it never does.
The Republican Congress has (mostly) not only been a bunch of lazy, posturing, weasels. When they aren't whining an moaning that they just 'can't' get everything done, they are doing nothing at all.....other than trying to re-elected in order to reap more money for themselves.
When they aren't just being doorstops, many of them are actively and maliciously undermining the President and his agenda which is the agenda of those who elected him.
Why do we even HAVE this institution if it isn't going to do anything. Why do we even allow these people (congress) to continue to leach off of us.
Someone said that they could randomly draw 535 people from telephone books and they would be able to come up with solutions in 15 minutes to many of the issues that Congress has been 'struggling' with for the last 2 decades.
At least Trump gets some things done. They may not be the perfect solutions or ones that everyone will agree on (agreement which will never every happen anyway). He can't get everything done all by himself and....... if the party that 'brung ya' to the dance is pouting in the bathroom, well hell....find someone else to dance with.
The debt issue is something that has been kicked down the road for as long as I can remember, and that is a long time.
This confirms what I already believed to be true!
If you can't drain the swamp, join it. The Dems, and media just grabbed Trump by the pussy, and he thinks they might like him. If he jumps in bed with them, they will make him feel really special. All the other girls will be soooo jealous.
Wait, I thought it was the Dems who wanted longer debt-ceiling extensions and the GOP who wanted shorter ones, or to use the extension as a means of forcing the president to do other things.
Oh, never mind. That's when we had a Dem President. Haha, it's so fun how that works.
"I wonder how much goodwill this actually bought Trump."
No matter what any person that carries an R behind their name does, the press and the Dems will never 'like' them. Just ask McCain, or Romney. Both were possible the incarnation of purity on earth...until they ran for President. Then of coarse they were the sires of the devil himself. The Democrat party (Media) will always destroy any person that does not take the sacraments of the Democrat Party
Spending lots of tax money is like heroin. You don't just play with it and then give it up when it starts causing problems.
Just for reference, have the Republicans ever won a fight over the debt ceiling?
In fact this is exactly how most people get addicted. They start off all righteous and eventually they get lonely on the outside of the clique, so they try it to get some approval from the other addicts, then it "wow, this is great!"
Again, it is not just Trump workng with the Democrats; it is also Democrats - and Schumer and Pelosi no less! - working with Trump.
Reminder: Paul Ryan lost a debate to Joe Biden. Sarah Palin did not.
The boys with ideological toys always lose.
You gotta give Trump credit, he is playing a non-obvious disruptive form of politics with no prior art.
Of course, if he can get the wall, E-VERIFY, visa tracking, and a reduction in immigration, anything else would just be icing on the cake.
9/8/17, 8:39 AM
Don't forget judicial appointments, especially for SCOTUS.
"I wonder how much goodwill this actually bought Trump. Or, if much like with Bush, McCain and every other bi-partisan offering from a Republican to the current Democrat Party, will he be promptly stabbed in the back and all his overtures forgotten once it is convenient?"
Unlike Bush and McCain, Trump did not go bi-partisan for some higher calling or approval of some editorial board.
Trump did this to stick a knife in the republican leadership.
And that will get him points with his base every time.
The Trump Administration: What have we learned so far?
Hillary's book to document the vast left-wing conspiracy against her.
Republicans in Congress proven just as useless with both houses and the presidency.
Democratic "resistance" predicated on imaginary "Russian collusion" has run out of unsourced innuendo needed to continue.
Trump gives illusion of two-party government a chance, but now free to deal with whoever in the uniparty can pass legislation.
Schumer and Pelosi would have been key players in passing Hitler's legislative agenda.
UnknownInga hardest hit.
"Wait, I thought it was the Dems who wanted longer debt-ceiling extensions and the GOP who wanted shorter ones, or to use the extension as a means of forcing the president to do other things."
-- My understanding is that that's exactly what happened. The Democrats pushed Trump to blow up the debt ceiling, the ultimate in extensions. While the GOP is annoyed that one of the few points of leverage to slowly the growth of government (not cutting government, mind, just slowing the growth). That... that matches exactly what you thought.
The debt ceiling and continually rising debt is something that could be solved by using some common sense and making some hard decisions. This is something that every American family has to do on an almost daily basis.
When there is less or no more income, you make cuts in spending. You save for expected necessary major expenditures. You don't buy or spend on unnecessary things. You cut back and economize. You only borrow in an extreme emergency.
That Congress finds this insurmountable is baffling. Sure there will be hard decisions and not everyone is going to be happy with cuts. Some people are going to be very angry or disappointed. Tough titty. Congress was sent there to do the hard work, to make the best decisions for everyone as a whole.
Get to work you lazy f*cks.
DBQ you forget that politicians, ALL of them exist for only one reason, to spend money. There is no power in cutting spending. We, I, re elect our pols. That is the problem.
No, this does not hurt Trump with his base. The GOP leaders wanted an 18 month extension to get past the 2018 election. Didn't happen. This one expires at the end of the year. Just in time for Campaign 2018 to begin to heat up. Ask Jeff Flake how having Trump against him is working out.
So GOP Leadership (and Dems in Trump States) - what about Obamacare repeal? the Wall? Tax Reform? Infrastructure Construction? Etc? Etc? Etc?
Some people are going to be very angry or disappointed. Tough titty.
Congress needs some Latin legal term if it's ever going to get serious about such things.
For example: "Mr. Speaker, I cite the long-established precedent of pectus arduis in support of my affirmative vote on the matter."
"This one expires at the end of the year."
-- Until Trump gives them what they want, which is the complete destruction of the concept of the debt ceiling.
Well, the actual, on paper destruction there-of. It is, essentially, a dead letter as is.
That pic is so New York type and I love it! I also love how important the NYTimes is and how you people all hate it so much.
Happy Friday and make it great day! Keep your feet on the ground and keep reaching for the stars!
The Republican "members" are getting exactly what they deserve. They could not get their act together on health care, and haven't made much progress on anything else. Many have been disrespectful to Trump, somehow believing that he could not hurt them. They are conducting business as usual with a President who was elected to end that.
Pat Buchanan, that old conservative lion, has an article about this today.
Trump is willing to let the chips fall. He don't care. He's President Honey Badger.
Trump's base does not give a dang about the debt ceiling.
To quote another Ann: "He got elected on immigration. Build the wall."
Wait until Trump gets addicted to winning with Democrats. I predict he will get accomplished what no Democrat has been able to--he will deliver universal government healthcare. He will then brag "it is the best gold plated plan" that any country has ever had.
This is the "only Nixon can go to China" scenario.
Trump is a narcissist without any core beliefs or principles. If Democrats can use that to accomplish their agenda, what would stop them?
Since the election, the Democrats have been living in delusion in order to not admit that Trump won fairly. They had the "best candidate ever" lose, even when she had everything in her favor and was David to win by all the pundits until early evening on election day.
And GOPe also expected Trump to lose. They like having no responsibility and just making money. They don't know how to govern.
Now, Trump can always threaten Ryan with calling his buddy to make a deal. He has super leverage on the GOPe and the donor class.
Ryan can either push through Trumpism, even the parts his big donors hate, or he can see a much more liberal version of Trumpism going forward.
The ending the election related hysteria is a huge bonus. Hillary's ridiculous book also heeled the Democrats wake up to the opportunity. Even they can admit now how horrible she ran her campaign as how lucky we are she isn't in the White House.
David said...
The Republican "members" are getting exactly what they deserve. They could not get their act together on health care, and haven't made much progress on anything else. Many have been disrespectful to Trump, somehow believing that he could not hurt them. They are conducting business as usual with a President who was elected to end that."
I agree with this.
Titus, I don't hate the NY Times. I just don't give a shit about it. It's a ridiculous rag.
Of course you like it. You're still the kid from the sticks, soooooo childishly impressed with anything East Coast.
Have a great day, hick.
I am amazed that the comments are so positive Trump. I think that this was a shot across the Bow of the Republican DO-NOTHINGS. Trump challenged them to fix DACA and now that they know he will make deals with the other Devils McConnell et al just might do something good. Wait, never happen.
Trump publicly begged and cajoled McConnell on twitter to go a simple majority in the Senate, but McConnell wouldn't do that. So a deal with Democrats was inevitable. The question is, does Trump cutting the deal give McConnell cover or make him look weaker than if he had cut the deal himself? And will Ryan take the deal? I suppose it's easier for Ryan to say Trump made him take it and it would go against the House's equality with the Senate to accept that McConnell made him take it. So this was a deal that had to be cut by Trump.
The Republicans have only themselves to blame, they should have passed something that Trump was happy to get behind and sell - money for the wall, corporate tax cut - anything that could credibly be characterized as a positive achievement. For Trump throwing money at Houston and Florida is a something that he sell, and that's what he likes doing. The stupid healthcare bill was a downer that no one liked.
Trump looked at Weinermobile Ryan and the Mitcheroo and asked, 'What have you done for me lately?" And the answer was zip, nada, and zilch. Not surprised that this happened. But then he will do the same to San Fran Nan and old Senator Chuck You when they haven't done anything for him.
You want to catch fish, you go where the fish are. And lately it hasn't been worth fishing in the Republican pool. That may change tomorrow--or it may not.
Republicans in congress could not get healthcare done because Trump promised to get rid of all of the hard things in Obamacare while keeping all of the things people like. What Trump promised is unworkable. And of course Republicans in Congress could not deliver.
Now, what Trump promised during the campaign does more closely line up with what Dems would like to do on healthcare...
That Democratic prom date is going to be quite surprised when they find out later in the evening Trump expects at least 8 of them to go to fifth base.
Not exactly sure what this means but it's funny as hell.
"Trump's new prom date: Democrats"
So, lemme understand this - the angry feminist lesbian has accepted the prom invite from the pussy-grabbing, Neo-Nazi sympathesizer?
harrogate: "Wait, I thought it was the Dems who wanted longer debt-ceiling extensions and the GOP who wanted shorter ones, or to use the extension as a means of forcing the president to do other things"
The GOP establishment has only uttered those ideas whilst continuing in their long-running production of "Failure Theatre" where dems get what they want anyway in terms of policy while the McCain's of the world trash every republican President not named "McCain".
If you were Trump and you knew the republican establishment was going to, AGAIN, give in to the dems in the end while extracting nothing of value in return, AGAIN, and while wringing their hands and saying "gee, if only we just had more money and congressional members", AGAIN, while also allowing allowing those same dems with their near total media control to paint republicans as Nazi's, AGAIN, the question for Trump becomes inescapably obvious: why shouldn't I simply cut the deal with the dems first, with no gains (just as would occur anyway later on), but perhaps disrupting the current full on establishment republican/dem/Deep State zeitgeist?
I'm beginning to believe harrogate is genetically incapable of understanding what is going on here.
And yes, I used "zeitgeist".....just like Hitler....
"The GOP really needs to realize that Paul Ryan's "free market," small government agenda..."
What agenda? Where, seriously, do people come up with this? Where does this type of lie start, and why are you spreading it?
There hasn't been a small government agenda in D.C. since Jimmy Polk. In fact there cannot be until the fed senate is elected by state legislatures as was intended/implemented/explained by small government agenda folks, long gone.
So, lemme understand this - the angry feminist lesbian has accepted the prom invite from the pussy-grabbing, Neo-Nazi sympathesizer?
Almost correct.
The angry feminist lesbian has accepted the prom invite BECASUSE its from the pussy-grabbing, Neo-Nazi sympathesizer.
See: Clinton, William J.
What Trump promised is unworkable. And of course Republicans in Congress could not deliver.
What Trump promised is unworkable. What the republicans want is unworkable. Obamacare as passed is unworkable. Obamacare with "fixes" (payouts) is unworkable.
Naturally, its all Trumps fault....
....and Hitler's...
Trump does not actually believe in anything. He does like winning. Now that he has a taste of it, expect to see more of the coalition of Trump/all of the Dems/a few Repub moderates getting stuff done. Dems even get to say "See! We can be bipartisan! It is conservative Republican ideologues who are obstructionists!"
😅🍺✌️
Not mentioned as reasons:
Hillary's book comes out next week. Why allow debt kabuki to interrupt Hillary's score settling...
By pushing the debt kabuki to Right before Christmas, it puts a lot of pressure to pass it.
Other things may happen in the next three months. McCains health, Jeff Flakes poll, Alabama senate race.
Removes excuse from GOPe of working on other issues for next 3 months.
Does anyone honestly think 'members' of his own party are angry in the least? Maybe rank and file, but the leadership? I have no doubt guys like McCain enjoy sticking it to the deplorable base of his own party as payback for Trump. The GOPe wanted Hillary. They are quite happy with democrats (a.k.a. their true party affiliation) running the place. As mentioned above, they should have had bills regarding the repeal of obamacare, immigration, etc. ready to go by inauguration day. Like the ones they voted on while obama was in office. Instead they had squat.
"As to the Republican congress, screw them."
Yes! Screw them. Continue working with Democrats, he won't go wrong.
Trump does not actually believe in anything. He does like winning. Now that he has a taste of it, expect to see more of the coalition of Trump/all of the Dems/a few Repub moderates getting stuff done.
Looks like someone (not Harrogate) just caught up.
Trump would love to deliver republican/conservative outcomes. He campaigned on them (by and large) and a few quite beyond. But the establishment republicans, aligned with their beloved deep state, decided that cannot be allowed to happen. So Trump is falling back on his bigger promise: to get things done and to deal with whomever would deal with him.
From a conservatives perspective, it wasn't great. But it wasn't Trump who proudly, PROUDLY, walked to the well of the Senate to make sure obamacare was here to stay: that was good old John "can't wait to go on Chris Mathews show to trash GWBush" McCain.
It's not Trump who allowed the dems to turn our intelligence agencies into an adjunct arm of democrat opposition research.
[Blinking away tears]. I'll going to miss all that Kabuki theater over raising the debt ceiling, which lets politicians posture for a while and then raise the ceiling and kick the can further down the road.
"Yes! Screw them. Continue working with Democrats, he won't go wrong"
So, all of a sudden working with Trump as Hitler is totes cool!
Matthew: my understand is that the GOP leadership wanted an 18 month extension of the debt ceiling, whereas the Dems want only 3.
So, no, this does not match the behavior of either party's leadership when a Dem was in the WH.
[Blinking away tears]. I'll going to miss all that Kabuki theater over raising the debt ceiling...
Precisely.
Dangerous Nazi-loving white supremacist President embraces bipartisanship.
Schumer and Pelosi go to Prom w/sexist racist America-destroying criminal.
What a time to be alive.
Better option: eliminate the debt ceiling. It's a stupid legislative gimmick that succeeds in giving grandstanding Congressmen an excuse for posturing.
Senate Republicans know that it is easy for Dems to create new government handouts in the form of "entitlements," but hard for them to take them away once created. That is why they don't want to get rid of the 60 vote rule.
Now Trump may just be successful in getting the Senate Republicans to get rid of the sixty vote rule. I will bet history will show in doing so it allowed Dems to more quickly accomplish their agenda (maybe in cahoots with Trump himself!) Democrats will also have the extra benefit in being able to say how "awful" it was for Republicans to change the rules!
😅😅🙏🍺😅
"Trump would love to deliver republican/conservative outcomes. He campaigned on them (by and large) and a few quite beyond. But the establishment republicans, aligned with their beloved deep state, decided that cannot be allowed to happen. So Trump is falling back on his bigger promise: to get things done and to deal with whomever would deal with him."
I don't think Leftists like Unknown are capable of grasping the reality of the Uniparty. They still think in simplistic terms of GOP=evil Dems= good. And they certainly have no problems with a vast bureaucracy, debt up the wahoo, and money for all their pet programs. Because all those trillions just drop from the heavens like manna.
Schumer and Pelosi are using Trump, too bad the Republicans screwed up and can't use him to get their agenda. Trump has no agenda of his own. Anyone who can manipulate him best will win.
It is nuts, of course, that even with nominal control of both chambers of Congress and of the Executive, Republicans are still having their agenda dictated by Chuck frickin' Schumer.
I guess as far as giveaways go getting rid of the debt ceiling struggle in return for Harvey fund authorization quickly isn't the end of the world.
But for God's sake, look at all the Republican congress has managed to NOT do! Planned Parenthood is still getting lots of federal money. They didn't have anything solid ready to go on Obamacare, nor do they have anything on immigration, or do they have anything on taxes. They couldn't even be bothered to have some sappy feel-good infrastructure package ready go to--something that'd get some good headlines and be difficult for Dems to strongly oppose! That's just about the easiest layup you could imagine, esp. with Trump...and they don't have it.
It's not like they're setting records approving judges now, either.
There's lots of focus on how Trump is bad as a politician, and not entirely without reason. But Trump alone is not screwing things up for the CURRENT REPUBLICAN MAJORITIES in both chambers! They can't actually be afraid that Trump would veto something, can they? He's desperate for wins, and they can't even get anything decent to his desk.
It's pathetic.
Once Dems and Trump codifies DACA and get a big infrastructure bill passed, will Republicans run next year arguing that "only they can rein in Trump"?
How do you think that is going to work?
😅😅👍✌️🍺😅
"Now Trump may just be successful in getting the Senate Republicans to get rid of the sixty vote rule. I will bet history will show in doing so it allowed Dems to more quickly accomplish their agenda (maybe in cahoots with Trump himself!) Democrats will also have the extra benefit in being able to say how "awful" it was for Republicans to change the rules!"
YES!
MSM hardest hit.
Seriously -- what are they going to do with their ZOMG!! RUSSIA!! NAZIS!! KKK!!! stories now?
Now let's see whether Republican legislators bitch about Ivsnka entering the Ovsl Office during a meeting ever again.
"There's lots of focus on how Trump is bad as a politician, and not entirely without reason. But Trump alone is not screwing things up for the CURRENT REPUBLICAN MAJORITIES in both chambers! They can't actually be afraid that Trump would veto something, can they? He's desperate for wins, and they can't even get anything decent to his desk."
Vote them out! Vote them out! Vote them out! Replace them with Democrats, you won't go wrong, they'll work with the President to get him his "wins", which is all he cares about anyway. This is how the Democratic agenda will prevail! I love all this Trump loyalty, he really could shoot someone on Fifth Avenue and his followers would still love him. Hell, they'll even side with the Democrats for him. LOL!
Conservatives were willing to sell their souls to get power. They did so with Trump who was the most inappropriate individual imaginable to be president. It will be great schadenfreude to see it come back and bite them in the ass.
😅
AReasonableMan said...The Republicans have only themselves to blame, they should have passed something that Trump was happy to get behind and sell - money for the wall, corporate tax cut - anything that could credibly be characterized as a positive achievement. For Trump throwing money at Houston and Florida is a something that he sell, and that's what he likes doing. The stupid healthcare bill was a downer that no one liked.
Yes; well put.
How do Ryan and McConnell not have a half dozen bills waiting for votes tomorrow on things we all know Trump will support--things that also poll well with Republicans and centrists?
I want the Republicans to UNDO wrong things that have been done. Having DeVos work to make Title IX enforcement sane again is a great step--the Obama Admin did a lot of their dirty work through Executive agencies so undoing that will require Executive action. That's fine. But when and where the Legislature can help, especially in ways that will be politically popular, they ought to be doing so, proudly and loudly, now!
How about the IRS, guys? Even some nice centrist people were upset at the idea that the IRS was using their power for political ends. Do you think MAYBE the legislature could do something about that? Hold some hearings, make some funding contingent on changes, publicly pressure the President to take action, etc? Something like that would poll pretty well, I bet--ain't nobody love the IRS! And yet...not much.
If the Republicans currently in office really think the populist victory Trump won is evidence that what the nation's really clamoring for is a big fight over more "tax cuts for the rich" then they really don't deserve to stay in office.
It's like they're TRYING to make things easy for Dems! "The Republicans couldn't pass a bill to help you with your health care costs and they couldn't pass bills to enact crazy Trump's wild promises, but they sure can pass a big tax cut that benefits their wealthy friends! Seems like all they care about is making the 1% happy." The frickin' ads write themselves...and that ad would be mostly correct!
"I love all this Trump loyalty, he really could shoot someone on Fifth Avenue and his followers would still love him. Hell, they'll even side with the Democrats for him. LOL!"
👍😅😅😅😅
Big Mike said...Shit! I had forgotten that the whip is Steve Scalise, who's still in rehabilitation.
--
Right. He had to be forgotten.
"Conservatives were willing to sell their souls to get power. They did so with Trump who was the most inappropriate individual imaginable to be president. It will be great schadenfreude to see it come back and bite them in the ass."
Absolutely! Couldn't agree more.
Blogger Now I Know! said...
Conservatives were willing to sell their souls to get power. They did so with Trump who was the most inappropriate individual imaginable to be president. It will be great schadenfreude to see it come back and bite them in the ass.
😅
This is an extremely stupid comment, but par for the course with you.
And you just know Trump will chose "Winning!" with Democrats over losing with Republicans.
Haha!
"It's like they're TRYING to make things easy for Dems! "The Republicans couldn't pass a bill to help you with your health care costs and they couldn't pass bills to enact crazy Trump's wild promises, but they sure can pass a big tax cut that benefits their wealthy friends! Seems like all they care about is making the 1% happy." The frickin' ads write themselves...and that ad would be mostly correct."
NO tax cuts for the rich!
It just goes to show that that study about how conservatives understand liberal positions, but liberals find it impossible to understand conservatives is right on the money. I mean, they read words conservatives write, but the words just never penetrate the partisan fog in their heads.
Unknown said...Vote them out! Vote them out! Vote them out! Replace them with Democrats, you won't go wrong, they'll work with the President to get him his "wins", which is all he cares about anyway. This is how the Democratic agenda will prevail! I love all this Trump loyalty, he really could shoot someone on Fifth Avenue and his followers would still love him.
You misunderstand (shocking).
I'm not expressing loyalty to Trump. I am pointing out that the burden for getting things done, legislatively, rests more with the Republican Congress than with Trump. I would agree with anyone who says that Trump has made the job of the Rep. Congress much harder than it has to be, and that Trump has made it more difficult for the Rep. Congress to pass big, sweeping, "comprehensive" legislation to "fix healthcare" or other such pipe dreams.
You're laughing at the idea that a disaffected Republican voter would decide to pull the lever for a Dem. just to get some stuff done. I don't think that's likely, mainly because I recognize just how far the the left the current Dem. party really is (much more so than even 10 yrs ago) on many big issues.
What will say, though, is that a lot of people who are more in the populist vein but normally vote for Republicans may decide that it's not worth engaging any more--certainly not worth donating to Republicans, and possibly not worth bothering to vote.
I'm not ever going to vote for the Party of Pelosi. But if the Party of McConnell & Ryan shows that they can't be bothered to do anything I sent them to do--that I gave them majorities to accomplish--I might not vote for them again, either.
Electing Trump was extremely reckless and irresponsible. People like Ann Althouse though it was all such great fun. I do not begrudge Democrats from trying to make "lemonade out of lemons," but it was still a terrible thing that Republicans inflicted on our Republic by selecting Trump.
I'm glad the resident leftist are so happy about this, now that they can't masturbate over RUSSIA!!!! anymore. They need something to live for.
I am looking forward to the investigation of Debbie Wasserperson-Schultz and the Menendez trial is already entertaining as hell.
J. Farmer said...
Better option: eliminate the debt ceiling. It's a stupid legislative gimmick that succeeds in giving grandstanding Congressmen an excuse for posturing.
9/8/17, 10:04 AM
I would agree to that if we had a balanced budget amendment (with exception for time of war).
They did so with Trump who was the most inappropriate individual imaginable to be president.
Except for Hillary that is.
Wheew, dodged a bullet there, we did!
Conservatives are all over the map, they no longer have a unifified political philosophy, that is why the Republican dysfunction is happening. Democrats continue to be unified. There is power in unity.
Actually some Democrats did. With Schumer and Pelosi now having broken ranks, it may well be that even more Democrats will cross over next year. Especially if the Democrat establishment decide that a hard left turn is the way to go.
Well, you know, Congress is still stuck down there in the single-digit approval ratings zone. I suspect this move will help many line Republicans. As for the Republican leadership - 2016 ought to have finally conveyed the message to "machine" Republicans. No one likes them. Not even Republican voters. There had been years of hints.
Cantor went down to Brat in 2014. They didn't catch a clue then. By 2016, they were still thinking they could fob "Act of Love" Bush off on the voters. One hundred mil later, a puzzling pattern of voter resistance was blindingly evident. At that point, one would have expected that the Congressional GOP leadership would have switched to caffeinated coffee.
On November 9th, 2016, as Trump was celebrating his election (and the GOP leadership in Congress woke up to the news that Trump had had coattails, ushering in an era of GOP dominance rather than GOP defeat), Ryan should have grabbed his balls with both hands and tried to focus on the new reality. It was time to remove the donor dildoes from the GOP legislative apertures, regardless of how lucratively lubed they were. The game had changed. The money wasn't working.
Isn't this EXACTLY why Trump was elected? To do this? To deal? Is it even remotely rational to believe that Trump, given a firm grip on such an opportune handle, would not use it? What would stop him? Chivalry? Trump's not Romney.
I am not pleased with Trump making deals with the Democrats. That said, the debt ceiling fights are pure Republican failure theater that accomplish nothing other than make the party look bad. If the Republicans were ever serious about it, which they should be since we are approaching an existential crisis with the national debt, then I would be annoyed. They are not serious about it. If anything, Trump probably did the Republicans a favor.
I voted for Trump on the basis that half a loaf is better than none. I'm still winning on that account.
Now I Know! said...
Electing Trump was extremely reckless and irresponsible. People like Ann Althouse though it was all such great fun. I do not begrudge Democrats from trying to make "lemonade out of lemons," but it was still a terrible thing that Republicans inflicted on our Republic by selecting Trump.
9/8/17, 10:35 AM
LOL (x100).
And you think and support that Hillary was a great choice? Remember, Hillary is very likely the ONLY reason you have Trump. Let that sink in and despair!
"Democrats continue to be unified. There is power in unity."
Uh,huh,dearie, that's why your "unified" party has suffered massive losses at all levels of government. Wisconsin was a blue state when I moved back here in the 1990's. Now it is red. Gee, how did that happen? How about because sane voters looked at the "unified front" of far left lunatics and said "Hell no!"
Continue to be "unified." Continue to cheerlead for antifa and BLM and amnesty, continue to make taking down Confederate statues and letting men use women's bathrooms highlights of your agenda. It's been working so well for you! May Gaia bless your continued lack of insight and stupidity!
You'll get Republicans elected despite their own blunders.
I am sure that Inga probably caused at least 100 undecideds to vote for Walker and Trump, all by herself. They should send her flowers.
"With Schumer and Pelosi now having broken ranks, it may well be that even more Democrats will cross over next year. Especially if the Democrat establishment decide that a hard left turn is the way to go.
Schumer and Pelosi haven't taken any "hard right turn", or "broken ranks". Trump isn't hard right, lol. In "working" with Trump, they are manipulating him to get their Democratic agenda. He wants a win, he doesn't care whose agenda it is. He wants the glory of a win, he'll get that from Democrats.
Hoodlum said "How do Ryan and McConnell not have a half dozen bills waiting for votes tomorrow on things we all know Trump will support--things that also poll well with Republicans and centrists?"
Yes. They could have a string of separate bills to address various issues and put them on Trump's desk to be signed.
I will never understand this obsession with trying to put together these MASSIVE, omnibus, cover everything, unwieldy and ultimately not passable bills. Taking one issue and then larding it up with everything under the sun. This is why Obamacare is unworkable, a failure. Trying to do everything all at once instead of in increments. Trying to do these massive bills results in NOTHING getting done.
This old axiom still rings true:
How do you eat an elephant?
One bite at a time.
Accomplish one issue at a time and eventually the job will be done.
Tolstoy didn't write War and Peace all in one sitting.
Trump is an empty vessel, may the best manipulator win! My bet is on Democrats. Trump is vindictive enough to side with a Democrats because the Republicans wouldn't give him his "win". I'm already having schadenfruede.
Democrats that think that means he has moved on the political spectrum to the left, are just as delusional as the Republicans that believed he shared their vision.
I don't think anyone is that naive.
Is there any doubt about what a Cult of Personality we now have in Trumpism?
The Tea Party crowd assails Republicans for supposedly soft compromises with Democrats. An acronym -- "RINO" -- is deployed.
But along comes Trump and makes a deal with Democrats ("Chuck, and Nancy") and all of a sudden, he's a four-dimensional chess master.
If tomorrow Trump came out with a proposal for a single-payer national healthcare service, government funding for abortions, a national cap-and-trade plan to combat "climate change," and a military alliance with Russia, I think Trump fans would cheer him as the most brilliant president of the last century.
Ivanka is whispering into his ear right now "see daddy! It was the right thing to do getting rid of that awful fat man and start listening to us. Making deals with the Democrats will make you the greatest statesman in the history of the world!"
😅
Where's Lifelong Republican? I imagine he's the only one here who wouldn't be smiling at the thought of the impotent sputtering rage of the GOPe court eunuchs.
Dust Bunny Queen said...
Hoodlum said "How do Ryan and McConnell not have a half dozen bills waiting for votes tomorrow on things we all know Trump will support--things that also poll well with Republicans and centrists?"
Yes. They could have a string of separate bills to address various issues and put them on Trump's desk to be signed.
That is complete and utter nonsense. What things do you have in mind? A border wall? I sure don't want any Republicans whom I know to support the spending of U.S. tax dollars on such a monument to Trump's ego.
A national health care reform bill? What would that look like? I mean e-x-a-c-t-l-y, what would it look like? Whatever you wrote would be news to Trump; he doesn't know what it is that he wants.
Tax reform? Ditto! Are you remembering that (a) none of these things will bet past a Senate filibuster and (b) even if you could somehow railroad them through past a filibuster, you are left with the same sort of one-party concoction that made Obamacare such a loser as soon as Democrats lost their fleeting supermajority.
What else is on the Trump legislative agenda? Be very, very specific in your answer.
What else is on the Trump legislative agenda?
The issue isn't Trump's legislative agenda...it is the failure of the Republican Establishment to act on the agenda they've been pushing for six years.
Why could they pass Obamacare repeals when they knew that Obama would veto them...but now with increased majorities they can no longer pass an Obamacare repeal when Trump would sign it?
Where's Lifelong Republican? I imagine he's the only one here who wouldn't be smiling at the thought of the impotent sputtering rage of the GOPe court eunuchs.
Ask and ye shall receive.
If tomorrow Trump came out with a proposal for a single-payer national healthcare service, government funding for abortions, a national cap-and-trade plan to combat "climate change," and a military alliance with Russia, I think Trump fans would cheer him as the most brilliant president of the last century.
Hillary! :-D
Gahrie said...
...
Why could they pass Obamacare repeals when they knew that Obama would veto them...but now with increased majorities they can no longer pass an Obamacare repeal when Trump would sign it?
The House can pass anything on a majority vote. There was just one, minor, technical Obamacare-reversal vote that slipped through the Senate. Never a wholesale repeal-and-replace.
You Trumpkins have such defective memories, such rotten understandings and such fantastical imaginations.
And; this is politics. You can do a lot of messaging votes to hurt the other side and excite your base. Like the Chicago city council voting for an impeachment of President Bush. If you son't understand that, I can't help you.
I wonder how many GOP Congressmen will be primaried out next year. Maybe even Ryan.
DBQ and others are correct: The GOP 'agenda' is simply getting re-elected. They haven't done shit in eight years because actually doing something might rub a donor the wrong way. Can't take that chance. They are despicable.
Chuck said...What else is on the Trump legislative agenda? Be very, very specific in your answer.
Who is talking about the "Trump legislative agenda" here, Chuck? I'm explicitly NOT talking about that. I'm talking about what should be the REPUBLICAN legislative agenda, crafted by those super smart leaders Ryan and McConnell. I explicitly said I was NOT talking about big comprehensive fixes (like solving all healthcare problems forever, or complete tax reform).
Here, let's put it another way: ignore Trump for a moment, Chuck. What kind of standard, non-heroic things would YOU want the Republican congress to pass. Which of the laws that Obama passed would you like to roll back? Since he got a lot of his work done through the executive branch, what laws would you like to see passed to roll back those executive actions?
You're a life long Republican. Surely there are some "small" things you think the Republican Congress should address, right? Certainly you can name a few things you think would be widely popular that the Republican Congress should do right now, right?
"Dems even get to say "See! We can be bipartisan! It is conservative Republican ideologues who are obstructionists!""
LOL! Yes indeed.
"Is there any doubt about what a Cult of Personality we now have in Trumpism?"
None whatsoever, lol! He could become a Democrat, as well as shoot someone on Fifth Ave. and his sycophants would still love him. It couldn't get any better for Democrats.
"You Trumpkins have such defective memories, such rotten understandings and such fantastical imaginations."
Yes, I love it. All the better for us Democrats.
" There was just one, minor, technical Obamacare-reversal vote that slipped through the Senate."
The bill would have:
Repealed Obamacare, or the key parts of it — The Republicans’ bill, Restoring Americans’ Healthcare Freedom Reconciliation Act of 2015, doesn’t actually repeal Obamacare in its entirety. Instead it goes after some of the key features of Obamacare that are necessary to make the whole system work. It would have:
Restricted the federal government from operating health care exchanges
Phased out funding for subsidies to help lower and middle-income individuals afford insurance through the health care exchanges
Eliminated tax penalties for individuals who do not purchase health insurance and employers with 50 or more employees who do not provide insurance plans
Eliminated taxes on medical devices and the so-called “Cadillac tax” on the most expensive health care plans
Phased out an expansion of Medicaid over a two-year period.
Minor. Technical.
So, are you guys telling me Trump is not Hitler?
Are you telling me he is just a malleable fool?
Are you telling me he's not evil incarnate?
Are you telling me Republican politicians are fools and liars?
So all the comments these last 20 months were complete bull shit?
Where is that shocked face?
"Ivanka is whispering into his ear right now "see daddy! It was the right thing to do getting rid of that awful fat man and start listening to us. Making deals with the Democrats will make you the greatest statesman in the history of the world!""
Ivanka donated heavily to Democrats over the years, lol.
Is raising the debt ceiling "doing something"?
Hitler-Stalin Pact,1939.
We all know what happened next.
"Are you telling me he is just a malleable fool?"
Yes.
"Are you telling me he's not evil incarnate?"
He's not smart enough.
"Are you telling me Republican politicians are fools and liars?"
Looks like it.
"So all the comments these last 20 months were complete bull shit?"
No. He's still an incompetent, nasty, egocentric asshole. That hasn't changed.
Meanwhile back at the goat rodeo:
"The House easily cleared a package Friday to provide more than $15 billion in disaster aid for victims of Hurricane Harvey, raise the debt ceiling and fund the government for three months.
President Donald Trump is expected to swiftly sign the bill, which delivered on the fiscal deal he struck with Democrats earlier this week. The House passed the legislation 316-90, a day after the Senate passed it, 80-17."
President Trump's deal with the Devils seems to have had a lot of Republican support.
You can do a lot of messaging votes to hurt the other side and excite your base.
Or perhaps..just perhaps, when you have total control of all three branches of the federal government...you can actually get something done.
The Democrats seem to manage.
Rabel the only reason that that one single vote got through the Senate was because it was in the nature of reconciliation -- that technical rule that allows a simple majority vote to pass without a filibuster.
My point stands; the Trumpkins who imagine that there were many, many "replacement" bills or even many "repeal" bills are fantasizing. It never happened.
The "replace" part is some of the hardest imaginable legislative work.
Wholesale repeal and replace is very hard. The GOP should not have repeatedly promised that they would repeal and replace the moment they had majorities, but that's probably within the bounds of political puffery. It was never going to be easy.
Wholesale reformation of our tax code is very hard. There are a ton of different interests and cross-interests to account for and every tiny change might inspire massive opposition from some group you need. The fact that large portions of the Republican base (not to mention centrist voters) disagree with Republican leaders as to where the focus of that reform should be (top marginal rates vs...something else) makes it tougher. Large scale tax reform was never going to be easy.
Trump himself has made getting either of those things done even tougher for Republicans. I'm not a "Trumpist" or a "Trumpkin;" I readily acknowledge that instead of doing things to make the Republicans' jobs easier on those topics he has consistently made things harder. Ok, granted.
So, again I ask--why does the Republican leadership seemingly have NOTHING else?
We all know Trump loves infrastructure and "jobs." He likes playing with earth moving equipment and having photo ops at factories. Great. Do you think the Republicans could come up with a legislative package addressing national infrastructure problems? Maybe, I dunno, some budget actions to take money away from things like Planned Parenthood and other groups that are widely disliked by the Republican base and many centrists and move money towards the kind of spending that polls well--repairing bridges, etc?
Trump, as bad as he is, is not stopping Republicans in Congress from getting bills to Trump's desk.
Gahrie said...
You can do a lot of messaging votes to hurt the other side and excite your base.
Or perhaps..just perhaps, when you have total control of all three branches of the federal government...you can actually get something done.
The Democrats seem to manage.
Republicans don't have "total" control of the Senate. Total control would be 60 or more votes, like what the Dems had in early 2009.
Republicans don't even have "total" control of the White House. Trump being President means it's somewhat out of control.
The "replace" part is some of the hardest imaginable legislative work.
They've had six years to write the bill...they have total control of the government...what more do they need?
Seriously Chuckles...what is the excuse going to be? What are they going to tell the Republican voters in 2018?
Hell, how's that Hearing Protection Act coming along? That's a pretty small bill, right?
Brer rabbit some lefty Dems into shouting how anti-gun they are just before the midterms--how 'bout it?
Think about it this way: other than healthcare reform and tax reform what bills would you want your President Ruibo or President Cruz to be signing right now? There are some, aren't there?
Fine. What's stopping the current Republican majority Congress from voting for those, then?
Republicans don't have "total" control of the Senate. Total control would be 60 or more votes, like what the Dems had in early 2009.
If we had sixty Republicans in the Senate McCain and other Establishment types would still stab us in the back...that's the point.
"My point stands"
Your point seems to be quite flexible.
If we had sixty Republicans in the Senate, the GOP Establishment would be trying to explain why they need seventy votes to get anything done.
Trump's move is telling Ryan and McConnell that they had better get their act together. Sure, the two may be herding cats, but that still doesn't change the fact that they haven't made any inroads on their biggest campaign points from every election since 2010.
Congress has faced the need to raise the ceiling for the last three months, and yet they had done nothing at all, took a 5 week vacation, and then pooh-poohed all the trial balloons about attaching the longer term ceiling raise to more popular measures. Trump took one look at this and decided it would be far better to just kick this particular can down the road a bit while at the same time sending it as a warning shot to the Republican leadership.
Nothing, literally nothing, is preventing the Republicans from raising the ceiling to get past the 2018 elections except for their own fucking ineptitude.
Chuck said...Republicans don't have "total" control of the Senate. Total control would be 60 or more votes, like what the Dems had in early 2009.
Geez, dude, is that really going to be the LifeLongRepublican line? "We can't get anything done unless we have the Presidency, a majority in the House, and a 60+ majority in the Senate. Until then we can't pass anything that our base wants us to pass."
Is that actually what they're going to argue now?
Again: you are correct that people saying full healthcare reform and full tax reform should be easy now are wrong. Those big things are still very difficult, and maybe you do need 60+ Senators to really get it done. (I am putting aside the fact that the Repubs. couldn't even get enough of their OWN votes go move things forward--nevermind).
Are you saying, though, that since it's not possible to get big things done that it's not possible for the Republicans to get ANYTHING done? That's ridiculous.
Trump will sign anything you put on his desk if it makes him look good. He'd happily sign a weak infrastructure bill. He'd happily sign some social-conservative-friendly bill taking money from the NEA, NPR, and Planned Parenthood and giving it to some program for steel workers. He'd sign that crap in a heartbeat and everyone knows it, so it's just stupid to pretend like Trump is preventing even weak junk like that getting done.
UnknownInga64,
So you're saying he's not Literally Hitler?
Does that mean it's not ok to punch him, now?
Chuck would prefer Democrats be in charge.
That way he could have his principles and his preferred policy outcomes.
Birkel said...
Chuck would prefer Democrats be in charge.
That way he could have his principles and his preferred policy outcomes.
What a gigantic load of horse shit. On this, of all comments pages. Where Trump has made his own deal with Schumer and Pelosi.
I'd ask; "Are you kidding me?", but you aren't kidding anybody.
Then you should be encouraging Republicans to work with Trump instead of constantly undermining the president.
But here you are, on this very thread, operating to undermine the president.
Logic is funny that way.
HoodlumDoodlum said...
Chuck said...Republicans don't have "total" control of the Senate. Total control would be 60 or more votes, like what the Dems had in early 2009.
Geez, dude, is that really going to be the LifeLongRepublican line? "We can't get anything done unless we have the Presidency, a majority in the House, and a 60+ majority in the Senate. Until then we can't pass anything that our base wants us to pass."
Of course that isn't what I wrote. Of course it is a mischaracterization. (When has there been any series of comments from me where one of the Althouse Trumpkins didn't mischaracterize me?
Nobody needs a 60+ majority in the Senate to get anything done. How many major pieces of legislation have been enacted without a supermajority? All them, mostly.
No; if you don't have 60+ votes in the Senate, what you need to get anything done is some smart politics. A few compromises; a few defectors from the opposing party. A few legislative favors. Some great messaging, from credible members who have significant gravitas and national communication skills.
I need to add; if you want to get bipartisan stuff done in the Senate you need a couple of other things.
One is serious ideas. Silly crap like a border wall isn't going to pass.
The other is a serious president. Silly, orange-colored freaks who believe in things like border walls won't cut it.
See, silly crap like the issue that singlehandedly gave Trump his victory over all the GOPe jerk offs who have gravitas that are supported by the majority of Republicans cannot be considered.
It's not serious.
And Chuck is a totally serious Republican, who like Republican senators, think the voters are silly for wanting national borders.
Makes sense.
Nobody needs a 60+ majority in the Senate to get anything done. How many major pieces of legislation have been enacted without a supermajority? All them, mostly.
That's my point.....so why isn't anything getting done?
No; if you don't have 60+ votes in the Senate, what you need to get anything done is some smart politics. A few compromises; a few defectors from the opposing party. A few legislative favors. Some great messaging, from credible members who have significant gravitas and national communication skills
Which apparently the GOP Congressional leadership is incapable of achieving.
Yet somehow Trump is evil because he managed to do something the GOP Establishment couldn't by using his political skills to work with leaders who could get something done.
Do you think I like the fact that Trump is forced to work with the Democrats to get anything done?
All them, mostly, except the one piece of legislation Republicans ran to repeal: Obama Insurance.
Because Chuck has his finger on the pulse of the Republican electorate.
One is serious ideas. Silly crap like a border wall isn't going to pass.
Really? Why? It did before...Congress just refused to actually build the wall it promised to build...which isn't very surprising really.
The other is a serious president. Silly, orange-colored freaks who believe in things like border walls won't cut it
You mean the president who is actually managing to get things done?
A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush. McConnell couldn't find his office without a page boy.
I need to add; if you want to get bipartisan stuff done in the Senate you need a couple of other things.
We don't want to get bipartisan things done. That's a GOP Establishment thing.
We want to get partisan things done..that's why we gave the Republicans total control of the government.
My point stands; the Trumpkins who imagine that there were many, many "replacement" bills or even many "repeal" bills are fantasizing. It never happened
Chuck needs to stop listening to the voices in his head and instead read the comments that are actually written.
No one, and not I certainly claimed there were "replacement bills or repeal bills"
Here, let me help you. I said:They could have a string of separate bills to address various issues and put them on Trump's desk to be signed.
Find the word replacement or repeal in my sentence.
Get help Chuck.
Chuck said....No; if you don't have 60+ votes in the Senate, what you need to get anything done is some smart politics. A few compromises; a few defectors from the opposing party. A few legislative favors. Some great messaging, from credible members who have significant gravitas and national communication skills.
Wait, so you are saying that the Republican Congress is to blame for the Republican Congress not being able to get some bills together so far?
Chuck said....One is serious ideas. Silly crap like a border wall isn't going to pass.
I asked twice before; I'll try again: What do YOU want the Republican congress to pass right now, Chuck? What are YOUR serious ideas--ideas that you want to see translated into legislative action now? I gave two examples of some small action the Republican majority could work on--could either get passed with a few defectors or make Dems take hard line stances against.
Whatever things you think the Republican Congress should be getting done right now, Chuck, McConnell and Ryan aren't successfully doing. That's...the point here.
Birkel said...
...
And Chuck is a totally serious Republican, who like Republican senators, think the voters are silly for wanting national borders.
You moronic jerkoff. I consider myself something of an immigration hawk. I want national borders. I want enforcement of them, and all of our immigration laws. A border wall with Mexico does nothing about the thousands (millions?) who entered legally and who have overstayed visas.
I am not trying to help a single illegal alien. I do not want them to have a pathway to citizenship.
And by the way I was fine with the 2006 Secure Fence Act, and a careful, DHS-approved-and coordinated approach to construction (and funding). But Trump said that he wanted a 55-foot-high wall stretching 2,000 miles and made of "hardened concrete, and ... rebar, and steel."
We never needed Trump at all, to improve on the 2006 Act.
It's a side note, and I really should just let it pass, but maybe it's worth remembering: "building the wall" as a base Republican issue dates waaaay back to at least 2006, well before Trump was an orange gleam in Lady Liberty's green eye.
For fuck's sake, LifeLongRepublican John "Maverick" McCain cut a TV ad back in 2010 blaming illegal immigrants for some home invasions and murders and insisting that we "complete the danged fence!"
But apparently it's wrong of Republican voters to actually believe anything Republican politicians say. Apparently before Trump no one was talking about building/completing a physical barrier between Mexico and the US, so anyone who thinks Republican voters rightly feel angry that Republican politicians talked about wanting to make that barrier a reality must be some kind of crazy deluded Trumpkin, huh? It's not like they're all on record calling for it long before anyone paid any attention to Trump.
We never needed Trump at all, to improve on the 2006 Act.
So why hasn't it been done?
So an act in 2006 totally solved the problem, says serious Republican Chuck.
Well now that the problem was solved without Trump, I guess the voters were silly to support the guy who disagrees that the problem was solved.
Your move, Einstein.
Chuck said...We never needed Trump at all, to improve on the 2006 Act.
And yet you haven't! That's the point. AGAIN. Dude: if you want to improve on the 2006 Secure Fence Act (which covered about 650 miles of a 2000 mile border) then improve it.
Screw what Trump wants--the Republican congress should put a bill improving the 2006 SFA in whatever way you think it should be on President Trump's desk TOMORROW.
Dare him to veto it! There's no way he would. There's no way he wouldn't sign it and make some dumb statement about how he's glad he's such a good dealmaker that he could get this done, how he thinks it's a good first step, etc. He would sign that shit instantly.
So, again: there is no "Trump won't let us!" excuse for the Republican congress not getting a bill like that (a bill that'd be popular with the Republican base, likely peel off some centrists, and at worst inspire the Dems to show how extreme and out of touch they are on the issue w/a filibuster) to Trump's desk.
The GOPe spent the first half of 2016 attacking Trump, even (maybe even more so) after it was obvious he would be their candidate. They spent the next 3 months, up to the election, keeping their distance as much as they could, esp note their reaction when the Access Hollywood tape was released (looking at you, Paul Ryan), where they didn't even wait a few days to see how it was playing with their, you know, irritating but still important voters.
Then he won and dragged Congressional majorities after him, so they spent the 10 weeks or so before the inauguration jockeying for position with no reference to actually preparing to govern. Because with them it has always been about personal power and gain, and the public is just a bunch of rubes to be manipulated.
Then the new Congress and new President take office, still warily looking at each other. Trump pouts Obamacare reform at then top of his agenda, thinking that after 6 years the GOP must be ready to do something with it. They aren't, and John McCain of all people sticks the knife between the ribs and smiles as he does it.
2 weeks ago much of the GOP abandoned Trump over the Charlottesville kerfuffle, just like Access Hollywood, pandering to the media without even taking a day or two to think and to see what their constituents think.
Meantime, Trump is looking at possibly being in a big shooting war in East Asia, the Navy is falling apart after years of bipartisan neglect, and there are what should be simple bills for the debt ceiling and hurricane relief on the table, that significant parts of the GOP caucus say they won't support without unrelated concessions that are politically impossible. He needs to clear the decks of trash in case there is war, but the Rand Paul types would rather play games they have to know they cannot win.
Yet, somehow it is TRUMP who broke faith with the GOP by reaching to the Democrats, who can at least deliver the votes they promise?
Sorry, no. If Trump was elected top govern and the GOP cannot play any constructive role in that, where does he turn other than the Democrats. I saw the debt/hurricane bill passed the Senate 80-17, with about 47 Dem votes and 33 GOPs, give or take 1 or 2.
Well, 80-17 talks very loudly. Much as I loathe many of the policy positions of the national Democrats, at least they can deliver votes. I am not for bipartisanship at any price, and often no action is better than the potential action on the table. But this situation is utterly ridiculous and the GOP as a whole has no one to blame but itself. If they have a problem with Trump meeting the Dems halfway or even a bit more, they need to reform themselves, pronto, and offer him a better alternative.
As bad as the Dems are (and I think many of them are horrible), the GOP and some of its talk-radio and journalistic allies have painted themselves into a similar corner--stoking the base with unreasonable expectations, and then claiming they cannot act reasonably because the voters are unreasonable.
That is a definition of "chutzpah" to challenge the old joke about the child who kills his parents and then claims mercy as an orphan. They need to either grow up and start functioning as a political party, which right now the Congressional faction does not do, or get out of the way.
This has worked electorally for the GOP, looking at Congress and the Statehouses. But in Congress, at least, it has left them a majority still riven by factions as if it's a minority eating its own children. Meanwhile, the country and the President are looking for a working majority to address some important things.
Distasteful as I personally find Schumer, Pelosi, and much of what they represent, A deal was the only obvious way to avoid the debt ceiling becoming an unnecessary crisis at a very bad time, and to keep FEMA going at a time when the electorate expects that. Given the nonexistent alternative, I cannot gainsay what Trump did except maybe on some details.
I asked twice before; I'll try again: What do YOU want the Republican congress to pass right now, Chuck? What are YOUR serious ideas--ideas that you want to see translated into legislative action now?
Tax reform. (Massive simplification, a lowered corporate rate, and a very modest overall gross reduction. Otherwise mostly revenue-neutral.)
Entitlement reform. (Possibly raised age limits for social security and medicare; a lot of ideas have already been floated.)
Immigration reform. (No pathway to citizenship. A national focus on work-permitting, without creating anchor babies and more birthright citizens. Non-criminal alien DACA-types may be able to stay, but not become citizens.)
Reform Title IX. (Betsy DeVos is doing her best, administratively.)
Fast-track more federal judicial nominees.
That would be good, for between now and the 2018 midterms.
That would be good, for between now and the 2018 midterms
Sure would. Want to bet that none of it gets done?
Oh, and btw, is Trump still simultaneously Hitler and Putin's tool? Or is he what Pelosi suggested last week, not her preference by a long shot, but if he can learn they can do business??
We don't need any improvement of the 2006 Act. That Act isn't going to create the kind of wall that Trump wanted. We just need to follow that 2006 Act. Allocate the money, and build some more miles of wall where such a wall would improve security. Nothing for Trump to sign except a budget bill.
Trump is never going to get the kind of wall that he screamed about in stump speeches. We'll get the kind of wall that President Bush envisioned in 2006.
What Martin said at 1:41.
Plus two points for correct use of "gainsay."
Chuck: Tax REFORM, Entitlement REFORM, Immigration REFORM,
Again with the massive, cumbersome, omnibus, all in one bills that are guaranteed to be stalled in committee, argued against, postured and doomed to be failures wasting months and years of time.
I agree with the fast tracking of judicial nominees and also how about confirming the existing appointments.
Instead, Chuck wants the giant pie in the sky.
Small bites, is is how you devour the elephant.
We'll get the kind of wall that President Bush envisioned in 2006.
When?
@Hoodlum You are absolutely on the right track. No one other than Congress is responsible for Congress' failure to act. Ryan is proving to be a mediocre leader and McConnell is an absolute failure. Trump will work with anyone who moves the interests of the American people forward. If it's Schumer and Pelosi today there is no reason it can't be Ryan and McConnell tomorrow.
The people could care less about the debt-ceiling "dance" they love to do in DC. Close the government because you can't/won't do your job? Forget it!
As to Chuck: if McConnell wanted - or was able - to play hardball the filibuster would be gone in a minute. It is archaic and as you point out it does nothing but create legislative constipation. It is a rule that can be changed if enough of the bozos want to change it. Don't try to convince me that Harry Reid would not have pushed for a change of the filibuster if he had a Dem majority of 2 votes and wanted to get a bill passed.
Gahrie said...
That would be good, for between now and the 2018 midterms
Sure would. Want to bet that none of it gets done?
It might not! If it does get done, it will only get done by getting some Democrats in the Senate. And with a competent President using the powers of his office to help it along.
@Chuck Your list is a good one, but there is absolutely no reason McConnell couldn't be pushing nominations forward faster; threaten the various committee chairmen with demotion if they don't move faster. He has the whip hand and I don't see him using it.
It might not! If it does get done, it will only get done by getting some Democrats in the Senate.
Kinsley gaffe?
Let's assume you actually meant "get some Democrats in the Senate to cooperate". Isn't that exactly what Trump just did?
And with a competent President using the powers of his office to help it along.
You mean a president who manages to get things done...like Trump?
Dust Bunny Queen said...
Chuck: Tax REFORM, Entitlement REFORM, Immigration REFORM,
Again with the massive, cumbersome, omnibus, all in one bills that are guaranteed to be stalled in committee, argued against, postured and doomed to be failures wasting months and years of time.
I agree with the fast tracking of judicial nominees and also how about confirming the existing appointments.
Instead, Chuck wants the giant pie in the sky.
Small bites, is is how you devour the elephant.
Gosh I am sure that I will regret this, but I have to say you make an excellent point. As you do, I'd much prefer a hard and fast series of smaller bills, forcing the Dems to vote to filibuster things that are broadly popular with Republicans and Independents. One vote at a time. Regular order.
Gahrie said...
...
...
Let's assume you actually meant "get some Democrats in the Senate to cooperate". Isn't that exactly what Trump just did?
Yeah, Trump got them to "cooperate" on something that they wanted! Yay! And kicked the debt-ceiling problem right into the Christmastime legislative crunch when the Dems, with few resources, will actually be at their most potent.
Hitler-Stalin Pact,1939.
We all know what happened next.
You mean the GOP and the Dems are going invade and partition Poland?
"Trump is never going to get the kind of wall that he screamed about in stump speeches. We'll get the kind of wall that President Bush envisioned in 2006."
We know that, Chuck. Why do you feel a need to come here and talk down to us?
It's as if you want more Trump.
So where are any of those bills now, Chuck?
What was the kind of wall Bush envisioned in 2006? I forget.
More important than a wall is a commitment to enforcement. And that commitment must be applied throughout the United States. The application must be rigorous. All illegal aliens must be made to leave. Every single one. Without exception.
Here in Chicago Mayor Rahm recently referred to illegal aliens as "undocumented citizens." Almost in the same breath he said that "undocumented citizens" constituted fully one-third of the Chicago public schools' student body.
That's outrageous. I am personally helping to pay for the schooling of illegal aliens via my very high and ever-increasing property taxes. Similarly I am helping to pay for their medical care and all the other services Cook County provides to residents via public funding.
It was pointed out above that GOP members of congress had a very long lead-time in which to craft bills dealing with a host of issues, including immigration, for the POTUS to sign immediately upon assuming office. But they didn't craft those bills.
I appreciate that it can be hard to pass bills even when you have a majority. But it isn't as hard as the GOP has made it out to be. Another way of putting this is, it's really, really hard if you don't even try.
Outrageous.
...so like I said a couple of times, Chuck, it would be silly to say that the only things that can be done are big, sweeping, comprehensive reforms.
It's stupid to say "Trump is a failure for not getting tax reform, entitlement reform, and immigration reform done--if he were a better President that stuff would happen." No President and no Congress in the last three decades has done that, Chuck, so by that standard Trump is no worse than both Bushes, Clinton, and Obama.
It really seems to be impossible for you to take your mind away from Trump for even a moment. The ironic thing is that you're right there along with the laughing lefties in claiming everyone else is a diehard Trumpkin in thrall to the man...but you're the one who can't say "Trump aside, the Congress could be working on this" even for a moment.
I asked what legislative actions of a modest and reasonable size you think the Republican Congress should be passing right now, Chuck. I explicitly asked you to limit your answer to things other than comprehensive tax reform and comprehensive immigration reform--I didn't think I needed to say "and not entitlement reform" since it's probably the largest, most difficult "reform" that can be imagined, but please consider that one included, ok?
You want Title IX guidance to be sane-er. That's an Executive branch function and the SecEd is working on it (Trump's SecEd). OK. More judicial nominees--sure. Why isn't that already happening?
What else, man? Or is that it? Is this Republican Congress a success to you?
Chuck said...We'll get the kind of wall that President Bush envisioned in 2006.
No--we'll get that kind of wall if the Republican Congress gets a bill for that kind of wall passed. If they did and that bill was on Trump's desk he would sign it and we'd get that wall (eventually, after years of lawsuits). But we'll get that wall ONLY if the Republican Congress passes such a bill! That's the entire point I'm making, Chuck.
Trump will sign that into law, Chuck, and you'd get to have a good laugh at what a humiliating defeat that is for Trump (not getting his huge wall) if only the Republican Congress would pass such a bill.
But...they can't! That's THEIR failure, Chuck. That's what THEY are failing to do. What's what we are complaining about. Entirely apart from Trump (from what Trump says he wants, from what he's promised, etc) the Republican Congress cannot get modest, moderate, pro-Republican platform bills passed. That failure is not Trump's fault.
Meade said...
...
We know that, Chuck. Why do you feel a need to come here and talk down to us?
It's as if you want more Trump.
This is for you, Laurence. Ben Shapiro from a little more than a year ago. Ben has a perfectly decent level of respect for people like me who are Trump-loathing Republicans who nevertheless voted for him because the alternative was so unpleasant and alarming.
Laura Ingraham had a reply, but her reply (basically, "awful things will happen if you don't vote for Trump") meant nothing to me or for me because I DID vote for Trump.
http://www.dailywire.com/news/8350/laura-ingraham-successfully-persuades-me-not-vote-ben-shapiro
Now, having fought against Trump getting the nomination, and having felt compelled to vote for Trump in the binary choice presented by the 2016 general election, I want to inoculate myself against all Democrat claims that I was a Trump enabler/apologist/co-conspirator in the future.
We got Justice Gorsuch*; it hasn't been a completely bad year for me or for Trump.
*Thanks to the Federalist Society, and Leonard Leo, and Senate Majority Leader McConnell.
Why isn't the Republican Congress doing a better job?
"Boy Trump sure is a terrible President."
Why isn't the Republican Congress working on appealing bills that will gain some swing Dem votes on popular issue X?
"Trump is the worst, huh? Just awful."
Why didn't the Republican congressional leaders do a better job of putting together legislation they knew would have the support of all/most Republicans so that they'd have a bunch of "wins" they could point to going in to the midterms?
"Golly but Trump is a horrible President. He says such stupid things!"
Why did the Republicans currently in Congress make all sorts of promises about the things they'd do and the changes they'd make only to turn around and pretend like they never made those promises, repeatedly, for YEARS, to Republican voters?
"Wow Trump is embarrassing. He's the worst President ever!"
Why haven't McConnell and Ryan been able to use their majorities to make the Democrats give a series of difficult votes on issues where the public in general is further to the right (or just in the center) while the Democratic party of Pelosi and Schumer is on the extreme left?
"I am so glad I've made it clear that I was always against Trump. People who support Trump are idiots--Trumpkins!"
Do you...do you see how unresponsive that is, Chuck? Do you understand how your monomania makes any kind of actual discussion all but impossible?
GAhrie: If we had sixty Republicans in the Senate, the GOP Establishment would be trying to explain why they need seventy votes to get anything done.
You laugh, but there are probably registered Republicans opening fund-raising emails from the RNC right now that say exactly that.
Meade: Why are you talking down to us, Chuck?
Chuck: Laurence, I will defend myself by pointing to a Ben Shapiro column.
Me: Call people by the name they prefer, as indicated in their handle.
Everybody: Chuck is an ass hole.
Chuck: "We got Gorsuch... Thanks to the Federalist Society, and Leonard Leo, and Senate Majority Leader McConnell."
Chuck is confused about who nominates judges. He is also apparently unaware that McConnell is permitting Trump's other judicial nominations to languish under Democrat stalling. Even GOPe turds 💩 ought to be condemning McConnell for this. The number of federal judicial vacancies is actually increasing due to McConnell's infamy or his cowardice, but you cheer him on, Chuck.
They aren't, and John McCain of all people sticks the knife between the ribs and smiles as he does it.
John McCain treated Donald Trump so badly? Is that the narrative?
Wait until Trump gets addicted to winning with Democrats. I predict he will get accomplished what no Democrat has been able to--he will deliver universal government healthcare. He will then brag "it is the best gold plated plan" that any country has ever had.
This is the "only Nixon can go to China" scenario.
Trump is a narcissist without any core beliefs or principles. If Democrats can use that to accomplish their agenda, what would stop them?
Anyone to refute this?
I think we can all agree the success named Justice Gorsuch has many fathers, and the mere potUS sure as hell ain't one of them.
Chuck, the Federalist Society, and Mitch the master Senate wizard McConnel, a hero's hero, as well as my state of CO, deserve the credit. No goofing around by emotionally including Trump for undeserved reasons in the list of those even indirectly responsible.
Q: Meade: "We know that, Chuck. Why do you feel a need to come here and talk down to us?"
A: Peggy Noonan: "It’s the big fact of American life now, isn’t it? That we are patronized by our inferiors."
Brookzene: "Trump is a narcissist without any core beliefs or principles. If Democrats can use that to accomplish their agenda, what would stop them?
Anyone to refute this?"
Refute it? You mean as though These are facts offered by someone who knows what he is talking about? Really? LOL.
Angel-Dyne said...
GAhrie: If we had sixty Republicans in the Senate, the GOP Establishment would be trying to explain why they need seventy votes to get anything done.
You laugh, but there are probably registered Republicans opening fund-raising emails from the RNC right now that say exactly that.
I think I already explained why I am laughing at that.
It's because the entire premise is that the only way anything gets done is on a one-party basis. When in fact real reform legislation needs bipartisan buy-in. Lest you get another Obamacare.
By the way, I am all for forcing difficult votes on the Dems as far as that goes.
Why didn't the Republican congressional leaders do a better job of putting together legislation they knew would have the support of all/most Republicans so that they'd have a bunch of "wins" they could point to going in to the midterms?
I'm not sure, but I truly think it is because Republican leadership foolishly tried to give Trump a big "victory" on a signature issue, which would have been a kind of repeal of Obamacare via reconciliation.
Refute it? You mean as though These are facts offered by someone who knows what he is talking about? Really? LOL.
No, you are right - refute isn't the right word. Just tell me why it doesn't make sense.
real reform legislation needs bipartisan buy-in.
Yet you are attacking Trump for working with the Democrats.
I'm not sure, but I truly think it is because Republican leadership foolishly tried to give Trump a big "victory"
Because as we are all aware of, the GOP Establishment is very fond of Trump.......
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