Althouse: "But it's different with girls, don't you think?"

September 17, 2017

"But it's different with girls, don't you think?"

45 comments:

Dear corrupt left, go F yourselves said...: what the heck is a strudel? a tasty danish? why... that's sweetist!; 9/17/17, 1:09 PM
rcocean said...: Ha. Monroe was such a great comic actress.

Its too bad, she wasn't satisfied with that and wanted to be known as a great Dramatic artsiest. She even married "intellectual" Arthur Miller.; 9/17/17, 1:32 PM
Saint Croix said...: Marilyn Monroe was a huge talent, a sex goddess and a comic genius. She's iconic. What fascinates men about Marilyn, I think, is that she manages to combine virgin and whore into one persona. She exudes sex and yet manages to play sweet and dumb at the same time, which gives her an innocent quality. There were dumb blondes before Marilyn, and sex symbols, but she might have been the first to combine the two.

When I think of a whore's persona, I think cynical, hard, edgy, worldly. None of those words describe Marilyn, who is soft, vulnerable, innocent, and naive. Which is preposterous, given her blatant sexuality. Her contradictions fascinate. You want to protect Marilyn and take advantage of her, all at the same time. We're not sure if she's simple and dumb or manipulative and dangerous. And she uses comedy brilliantly to take off any edge to her sexual persona.

I think Monroe is underrated as an actor and a comedian. Just stop and consider that the A list of comedy directors in the 50's--Billy Wilder and Howard Hawks--always wanted to work with her, despite all the hassles that went along with Marilyn. Nobody else could do what she did.; 9/17/17, 1:35 PM
Saint Croix said...: "Sometimes Mr. Esmond finds it very difficult to say no to me."; 9/17/17, 1:36 PM
Saint Croix said...: "You need to get a diamond tiara from him."

"How much does a diamond tiara cost?"

"$15,000 at least."

"That'll take an hour and forty-five minutes."; 9/17/17, 1:37 PM
tcrosse said...: I got your sfogliatelle right here.; 9/17/17, 1:37 PM
Saint Croix said...: Both of those lines are from Gentlemen Prefer Blondes, her finest movie I think. Although Some Like It Hot is brilliant, too.; 9/17/17, 1:38 PM
rhhardin said...: Even the glasses are fake.; 9/17/17, 1:40 PM
William said...: I was struck by the airline seats. They looked wide and comfortable, and they weren't flying first class. Did they even have first class back in those egalitarian days?; 9/17/17, 1:46 PM
rcocean said...: @ William. I don't know how much it cost in 1953. In 1941, airline travel was about 10 cents a mile. IOW, a flight to NYC to LA would cost you about $250. In 1941, you could buy a top line automobile for $1,000.; 9/17/17, 1:56 PM
The Godfather said...: Yes, I do think it's different with girls. Of course, as I've never done it with boys, I'm only guessing.; 9/17/17, 2:22 PM
Michael K said...: I flew LA to Chicago and back on DC7s and Constellations. The big difference was that first class was in the rear away from the engines.

The Pan Am clippers that my mother-in-Law flew to Australia had bunks in the tail so first class could sleep.

I don't see engines out the window but, of course, that was a set. The 707s that I flew to England had sardine style seats just like today.; 9/17/17, 2:52 PM
Rob said...: He may say she's quite a strudel, but what he's thinking about is her knish.; 9/17/17, 3:06 PM
mockturtle said...: St. Croix, I think Monroe is also very popular with female fans. She's one of the few 'sex symbol' stars I always enjoyed watching. She has the 'it' factor and steals every scene.; 9/17/17, 3:31 PM
rhhardin said...: The trouble with old movies is that the acting conventions were all wrong; and the special effects, e.g. clouds and sky, were hopelessly artificial.

On glasses, you don't get a flash of reflection from the whole lens at once with real glasses because they're curved; and the outline of the cheek profile through the edge of the lens should form a broken line.; 9/17/17, 3:33 PM
Mark said...: A lot of MM's sexy is because people have said she's sexy. She is certainly attractive, but I've never found her to be the hottest thing ever. Probably a lot of that is because of the hair style. She did have the skill to be a very good actress, and not just in comedic roles. She was excellent, for example, playing a dramatic role in her last film, The Misfits (where she also looked great with straight hair and more natural make-up).; 9/17/17, 3:40 PM
tcrosse said...: By the standards of the time, MM was hot stuff. At least such connoisseurs of lady-flesh as Sinatra and JFK thought so (although Tony Curtis said that kissing her was like kissing Hitler).; 9/17/17, 3:49 PM
Etienne said...: The Brits call propellers "Screws."; 9/17/17, 3:50 PM
tcrosse said...: The Brits call propellers "Screws."

On ships, so do we Yanks. On planes they're called airscrews.; 9/17/17, 3:56 PM
Gabriel said...: @rcocean, William: don't know how much it cost in 1953. In 1941, airline travel was about 10 cents a mile. IOW, a flight to NYC to LA would cost you about $250.

$4400 in today's money. I would say flying at all would be equivalent of flying first class today, price-wise.

As far as the seats go, people were smaller then. Marilyn Monroe was very small; her waist and hips were smaller than today's size 0.; 9/17/17, 4:14 PM
mockturtle said...: rhardin asserts: The trouble with old movies is that the acting conventions were all wrong; and the special effects, e.g. clouds and sky, were hopelessly artificial.

But the scripts were better. Much better.; 9/17/17, 4:15 PM
mockturtle said...: On ships, so do we Yanks. On planes they're called airscrews.

Not just ships but smaller craft, as well. Our cruiser was a 'twin screw'.; 9/17/17, 4:17 PM
mockturtle said...: although Tony Curtis said that kissing her was like kissing Hitler

When did Curtis kiss Hitler? Was that while in drag? ;-); 9/17/17, 4:35 PM
rcocean said...: "$4400 in today's money. I would say flying at all would be equivalent of flying first class today, price-wise."

Does it cost $4400 to fly one-way from NYC To LA? I think it probably costs more like $1200 ROUND TRIP.

In 1941 it would've cost you $500 round trip or $8800! It was probably less expensive in 1953, but not by much. So Flying was much, much, more for the elite.; 9/17/17, 4:38 PM
The Godfather said...: Speaking of the cost of air travel, one of Ken Follett's good books (before he got into the huge multivolume racket) is "Night Over Water" (available at Amazon through the Althouse portal and well worth the modest price), about a flight from England to the US at the outbreak of the Second World War. As I recall (but buy the book and check me on this) Follett gives us a sense of what the airfare cost by saying that it was about the same as the cost of a nice but not fancy house.; 9/17/17, 4:39 PM
rcocean said...: Is the acting much better today in movies?

Yes it is. And that's because most film actors today aren't film stars - they're actors. Most of them have little charisma, don't have distinctive voices, and aren't particularly charming or funny.

I'm sure Hollywood now has 20 leading ladies who could out-act M. Monroe but none of them have the charisma or star power.; 9/17/17, 4:43 PM
rcocean said...: "When did Curtis kiss Hitler? Was that while in drag? ;-)"

Ha,Ha. When he got older Tony Curtis wanted attention so he started to say outrageous things about the past. Of course, most of the people he talked about were dead - and couldn't say he was full of BS.; 9/17/17, 4:45 PM
Lem Vibe Bandit said...: In a more closer to home context...

How do you chummy up to coworkers who's free time entertainment include things you sworn off, without putting them off, that you might be holding yourself to be better than.; 9/17/17, 4:49 PM
traditionalguy said...: Poor Marilyn only acted dumb, but she actually was too intelligent for her own good. She understood a lot about what the Deep State operatives in DC and Hollywood, of her day were up to, and when it became apparent how much she knew, they ordered her silenced for it.; 9/17/17, 4:52 PM
Josephbleau said...: They have screws in prison also, according to the movies.; 9/17/17, 4:57 PM
Lem Vibe Bandit said...: In an attempt to chummy up, or whatever... I asked a coworker if his girlfriend at work was doing the immigration papers for him. You see I was under a misimpression because of an age difference between her (appreciably older) and him (appreciably younger).

He answered in a disappointing tone... Nooo, that's my lady Lem. The other guys looked at me and smiled.

I quickly surmised that the best thing to do at that point was not to say anything further.; 9/17/17, 4:58 PM
tcrosse said...: "When did Curtis kiss Hitler? Was that while in drag? ;-)"

No cake for you.; 9/17/17, 4:59 PM
Bay Area Guy said...: Compare Marilyn here in this clip to, say, Jennifer Lawrence in "mother!"

Heh; 9/17/17, 5:08 PM
Kate said...: I love that movie. A bygone era.; 9/17/17, 5:13 PM
YoungHegelian said...: When David Wayne tells Monroe that she is "quite a strudel", I think that postwar America probably thought that it was a clean version of the British "crumpet", used as a slang term for an attractive woman. The scene already cleans up Dorothy Parker's "Men seldom make passes at girls who wear glasses", so maybe they cleaned up "crumpet", too.; 9/17/17, 5:56 PM
William said...: It wasn't her best movie but her best role was in Bus Stop. She was better suited to William Inge than to Arthur Miller. She would have been good in the Kim Novak role in Picnic........You know you're getting old when the first thing you notice in a Monroe dialogue scene is the comfort of the seating arrangements.......I read the Epstein biography of Dmaggio. She cheated on him during their honeymoon. It was with her acting coach who was a woman, so maybe that's not real cheating. Still, not a good augury on the honeymoon,; 9/17/17, 6:27 PM
Mark said...: Is the acting much better today in movies?

Today I see an acting style that is much more naturalistic. In the past, by contrast, the style was acting! like the Master Thespian on SNL. The supposed "best actor ever" Laurence Olivier was one of the worst. Bette Davis was bad too.; 9/17/17, 6:41 PM
Wince said...: In this clip from Some Like it Hot, Marilyn "Sugar" Monroe confides in "Josephine" (Tony Curtis) that she has a "theory" about men with glasses, information which he later exploits.

I want mine to wear glasses...

Men who wear glasses are so much more gentle and sweet and helpless. Haven't you ever noticed it?

...They get those weak eyes from reading. Those long, tiny little columns in The Wall Street Journal.; 9/17/17, 6:51 PM
Wince said...: You're very kind. I'll bet you're also gentle and helpless.

l beg your pardon?

You see, l have a theory about men who wear glasses.

What theory?

I'll tell you when l know you better.; 9/17/17, 6:59 PM
Michael K said...: ".I read the Epstein biography of Dmaggio. She cheated on him during their honeymoon."

We were going through the Tucson Antique Mall today and in one case was an ID card for Korea for "Norma Jean Dimaggio."

I'm sure it was a copy. I meant to go back and look again but forgot until now.

I did find two nice model beer trucks but not the model airplane I was looking for.; 9/17/17, 7:15 PM
Luke Lea said...: One of the great comic actresses. The Prince and the Showgirl is my favorite.; 9/17/17, 8:11 PM
Bad Lieutenant said...: How do you chummy up to coworkers who's free time entertainment include things you sworn off

Laugh, tell them how you're on the wagon now, smiling ruefully at all the fun you know you're missing out on, and make a counteroffer of whatever desirable activity you prefer. Say, instead of a Portuguese feast followed by strip club, let's go shoot trap out at Thunder Mountain, followed by an enormous luncheon at the same place. It's very situational and you have to have a certain something to pull it off gracefully.

Hope that is any help whatsoever ;)

Laslo, was it you or betamax or somebody else who had that shtick with Joe DiMaggio, MM, et al, in hell?

On the situationality of strudel versus crumpet, remember that in Saving Private Ryan, a German POW fearing promotion to KIA, conveys his American affinities to the squad by saying among other things "Betty Grable, what a dish!" so the general notion of beautiful women as delicious dainties to consume, not to get all feministing on you, is well-founded before the period of the film.

Now word choice...crumpet I dimly envision something you've attained, rather than something you aspire to, As your synonym for food might it be a nod to Yiddish perhaps? Was she not married to Arthur Miller at this time and had she not converted to Judaism on his behalf? Maybe there was something there.

Or maybe it's the latest thing in NY diners at the time, The Fabulous International Dessert known as the strudel . Haimisch.

Fumbling fishing in the databanks I can't swear to it but I believe I've heard a woman called Asher a strudel before. Mel Brooks maybe.; 9/17/17, 8:32 PM
mockturtle said...: I think my favorite MM movie was Bus Stop.; 9/17/17, 8:46 PM
Yancey Ward said...: Big Bang Theory clip:

Penny puts on glasses; 9/18/17, 1:35 AM
Now is the winter of our discontent made glorious summer by this son of New York said...: MM is exibit A for guys who need a dose of the red pill. She just plays herself with embellishments, to be sure, but obvious omissions due to taste.

She was what almost all women would be if they had the sexual power.; 9/18/17, 7:24 PM