Althouse: "A nurse says she was assaulted and illegally arrested by a Salt Lake City police detective for following a hospital policy that does not allow blood draws from unconscious patients."

September 1, 2017

"A nurse says she was assaulted and illegally arrested by a Salt Lake City police detective for following a hospital policy that does not allow blood draws from unconscious patients."

"Footage from University Hospital and officer body cameras shows Detective Jeff Payne and nurse Alex Wubbels in a standoff over whether the policeman should be allowed to get a blood sample from a patient who had been injured in a July 26 collision in northern Utah that left another driver dead."

In other unbearably hard-to-watch police video news: "Officer to woman during traffic stop: 'We only kill black people, right?'"

64 comments:

rhhardin said...: It sounds like an authorized use of police sarcasm.; 9/1/17, 8:56 PM
rcocean said...: In terms of the nurse, we're only seeing the End of the Conversation. What went on before?; 9/1/17, 8:56 PM
Sprezzatura said...: "In other unbearably hard-to-watch police video news"

Doesn't this sentence get some sorta Althouse-style fisking?

Anywho, I saw that headline elsewhere, but I decided the video (and associated piece) was unbearable for me to watch/read. So, I don't know what happened. I skipped this for several reasons: anti-click-bait bias, not compelled by anecdotes rather than solid data, and not into being manipulated (that third point may be repetitive re the first two). Presumably other folks around here (who found this unbearable but also watchable, in a hard way) clicked on the bait.; 9/1/17, 8:56 PM
Laslo Spatula said...: Harvey Keitel shows how police work is done.

I am Laslo.; 9/1/17, 8:57 PM
rcocean said...: BTW, if the Hospital administrator, or whoever was on the phone, was giving orders to the nurse, why didn't he come down in person? Where was the Doctor in charge?

I'm not clear why a nurse in a hospital is somehow the decision maker.; 9/1/17, 8:58 PM
rcocean said...: As for the other:

All Policemen should understand this one rule:

Never use Sarcasm - when being recorded.; 9/1/17, 8:59 PM
The Godfather said...: The officer who made a bad joke about only killing Black people should receive a stern talking to. The officer who terrorised the nurse should be fired and prosecuted.; 9/1/17, 9:10 PM
MaxedOutMama said...: The nurse was illegally arrested - there was absolutely no cause for arrest. The policy requiring patient consent, patient arrest or a search warrant was actually confirmed with the police dept (and follows federal laws). She explained that. She had somebody on the phone confirming that. She printed out the policy and showed it to the officer. He grabbed her anyway. Nor was it a polite arrest - he didn't inform her of the grounds, just grabbed her and hauled her around. It was a thug/intimidation tactic outside of any possible parameters of legal law enforcement behavior.

The guy needs to go, because now that this is public, it's going to come up at trials for any arrests/investigations in which he was involved. There was just not a shadow of a cause and a person who would behave that way in a hospital with all those witnesses is completely out of control. He should never work as a cop again.

I also personally think that this officer should be fired - thugs and police work really do not work well together. I know that if I were on a jury, I would have very serious doubts as to this detective's trustworthiness. A detective that cannot detect is pretty useless. I feel no compassion for this man. What's shameful is that he was allowed to work after this incident, when they knew he had no grounds for the arrest. So this needs to go a little higher up - somebody in mgmt in that department made a terrible decision.

As for the other, I refused to view that video, but it was clearly sarcasm. Stupid! Very stupid! Bigly stupid! But not the same sort of errant thuggishness that amounts to an absolute disqualification for the job. I do have some sympathy for that one. He wasn't threatening anyone.

But I assume that, things being what they are, the second one will be tossed on the streets long before the first one is politely moved on, and that the first one (who should never be allowed to work as a cop again), will be allowed to resign, keep his license, and will pop up in another police department.; 9/1/17, 9:18 PM
retired said...: Both cops, the blabbermouth and the thug are entitled to due process before being disciplined or fired. And, there is the rest of the story. And the big settlements the blabbermouth and the nurse will receive.; 9/1/17, 9:28 PM
Fernandinande said...: Cops are such assholes.; 9/1/17, 9:32 PM
mockturtle said...: 1. The nurse was legally in the right, the cops in the wrong. That simple. Hope we find out the results of this one.

2. The traffic stop: Yep, sarcasm. No big deal.; 9/1/17, 9:34 PM
Michael K said...: In my trauma center, cops insisted on having their own techs draw blood for BAC. We did it as routine but they would not accept it as evidence.; 9/1/17, 9:36 PM
mockturtle said...: I'm not clear why a nurse in a hospital is somehow the decision maker.

There are specific hospital policies regarding consent for treatment. The nurse works for the hospital, not for a doctor. If she defies policy, she can be prosecuted for not following policy according to her state's standards of practice.; 9/1/17, 9:41 PM
Sprezzatura said...: "2. The traffic stop: Yep, sarcasm. No big deal."

I want my cops (while on the job) like I want my government, serious and purposeful.

If I want ill-considered and silly, I'll look elsewhere......; 9/1/17, 9:42 PM
Sprezzatura said...: OTOH, I'm not a DJT voter.; 9/1/17, 9:42 PM
Sprezzatura said...: Some of ya appreciate silly and ill-considered re the gov.; 9/1/17, 9:43 PM
Big Mike said...: My understanding is that the police need a warrant or permission to draw blood. There was no warrant, and the person from whom the blood was to be drawn was unconscious, hence could not give permission. It's not merely a matter of hospital policy, it's a matter of law.

The back story only makes it worse. The unconscious truck driver was the victim of an accident that was directly caused by the police performing a high speed chase. Clearly they had a motive to draw blood and miraculously(!) discover alcohol or drugs in his system.

Detective Payne needs to be fired and sued for false arrest. Ditto the officer who assists him. The watch commander on duty that night needs to be broken down to sergeant and a letter of reprimand placed in his permanent personnel folder. Maybe that will help focus the officers on their own need to be compliant with the law.; 9/1/17, 9:58 PM
Deanna said...: rcocean - there is a 19 min version available that gives context. As a nurse, this was horrifying to watch. Who do you call when you can't call 911? The sound in the longer version doesn't start till 30 seconds in. But after she's contained in the cop car a second officer basically uses PsyOps on her to get her to give in to their demands. She holds the line. Both my husband and I thought the mental strong arming as disgusting as the physical.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=hJPVglqR4yM; 9/1/17, 9:59 PM
MaxedOutMama said...: Retired - the thug thing is very bad, because it was more than ONE cop at the dept. The "thug" claims to have been carrying out orders from his superior, who then came to the scene after the nurse was handcuffed and also tried to browbeat her into compliance.

The fact that they say they were doing this to protect the patient (another cop, different dept) may well be true (although if a blood draw had found illicit substances, it certainly wouldn't have worked out that way), but it makes it WORSE. Because it all adds up to the fact that they will knowingly do illicit things and violate the law in order to protect another cop.

It is not just Detective Thug that needs to hit the streets, but the supervisor (Tracy) who ordered it. And the new claim that they didn't KNOW the law is probably false - the reason they didn't follow standard procedure and get an electronic warrant from a judge, which would have taken what 10 - 15 minutes? is almost certainly because they didn't want to put paperwork on the record making it look like they suspected the unconscious cop (who probably is an utterly innocent player in this) of wrongdoing - which is what they would have had to do to get a warrant. A judge is not going to give a warrant on the grounds that this guy is innocent and we have to prove he didn't do anything wrong!

So what you see here is not just thuggishness, but a conspiracy to violate the law and violate the innocent bystander's rights in order to protect a cop. Could it BE worse?

Now, pretend you are a prosecutor, and you are prosecuting a case in which either of those two had any scope to interfere, and the defendant is alleging brutality, false arrest, planting of evidence, etc. You be the jury. I'd give the claim a lot of credence.

What makes it worse yet is that the thug/nurse/unconscious cop incident occurred over a month ago, and both the people involved were still operating as cops until the nurse hired a lawyer and gave it national coverage. Clearly there's a level of supervision above Tracy that will blink at such small incidents.; 9/1/17, 10:03 PM
MaxedOutMama said...: Michael K - that was what Payne (thug cop) was there for - he had taken phlebotomist training and was certified to do a blood draw, but the nurse, following hospital procedure based on that wacky little irrelevance known as the law, as explicated by the Supreme Court, could not consent.

Until the nurse got a lawyer and publicized the story, the only repercussions for the two police officers who committed this blatant violation of the law was that Payne was removed from the phlebotomy detail at that hospital.; 9/1/17, 10:07 PM
Char Char Binks, Esq. said...: I wonder what the woman in the car was stopped for. Whatever it was, I bet she won't have to pay a ticket!

The woman was full of shit. She wasn't afraid of getting shot; she was trolling and hassling the cop, and she got an appropriate response. What was so bad about what he said, anyway? Isn't it what all the SJW and BLM crybulliess say? Why is it bad for HIM to say it? I mean, beside that he's white.; 9/1/17, 10:07 PM
MaxedOutMama said...: Deanna - It has to be terrifying for any medical personnel. Damned if do, damned if you don't.

I give the nurse the most credit for holding out. Very few people would, I think.

The sound isn't too good when Lt. Tracy is trying to get her to roll, but he is telling her that patient is a victim and that they are trying to protect the victim. So I do think my belief that this was a knowing violation of the law (at least on Tracy's part) to protect a cop is well-grounded.

It's bad, though. It's not just one rogue cop. They all know how to get warrants. They should have known that the hospital wasn't going to let them do it. They were just trying to bypass the legal requirements by bullying, physical abuse and intimidation.; 9/1/17, 10:24 PM
Char Char Binks, Esq. said...: This comment has been removed by the author.; 9/1/17, 10:25 PM
mockturtle said...: Big Mike: Thanks for the background info. Holy cow, that makes it much worse! It would seem that the only ones that police protect and defend today are each other. Sad and very scary!; 9/1/17, 10:26 PM
Unknown said...: Ann, didn't the Supreme court put the kybosh on warrantless blood draws last year in BIRCHFIELD v. NORTH DAKOTA?

For anyone interested the opinion is here: https://www.supremecourt.gov/opinions/15pdf/14-1468_8n59.pdf; 9/1/17, 10:28 PM
Char Char Binks, Esq. said...: '"2. The traffic stop: Yep, sarcasm. No big deal."

I want my cops (while on the job) like I want my government, serious and purposeful.

If I want ill-considered and silly, I'll look elsewhere......'

The sarcasm wasn't ill-considered or silly, it was Socratic irony proving what a stupid cow that woman was, and a way to negate the effects of her harassment by feigning fear of getting shot. If she was actually afraid he was going to shoot her, she wouldn't have said anything that was so obviously designed to piss him off.; 9/1/17, 10:31 PM
Browndog said...: The only way you can believe the cop was serious about only shooting blacks, and not being sarcastic, miffed at the false stereotype being perpetuated by the media is:

a) You really think cops only shoot black people.

b) There is no b.; 9/1/17, 10:32 PM
William said...: I can't see any mitigating factor for the behavior of the cops in the hospital. The best case scenario for Payne is that he simply loses his job.....I cut an officer on the street a little slack. It's easy to lose your head or say the wrong thing in stressful or anger provoking situations. Cops frequently have to interact with assholes, and assholism is highly contagious. But that nurse did nothing to provoke the cop, and he's a straight up jerk.; 9/1/17, 10:55 PM
Bob Ellison said...: "Thug" is the correct word. This nurse was trying to do the right thing, and this thug cuffed her without cause. What an idiot! Jail him for a while.; 9/1/17, 11:19 PM
Etienne said...: Cops have it tough. First you have to peel the body off the pavement and stick it in a body bag, and then some fucking nurse is worried about the rights of the fucking bastard who rubbed out the innocent fuck on the highway.

I'd give him time to cool off, and he will probably be the first to apologize.

Cameras are doing society no good.; 9/1/17, 11:25 PM
Bob Ellison said...: Yeah, and ER nurses have it so easy, Etienne.

Cameras are doing society so much good, because they show what's really happening.; 9/1/17, 11:28 PM
Earnest Prole said...: I saw this story and immediately headed over here to watch your dopey commenters defend the indefensible.; 9/1/17, 11:37 PM
traditionalguy said...: Local background: Cobb County Government has always had an arrogant attitude for no apparent reason other than being separated by the Chattahoochee River from that racially mixed Railroad Center to the south that is full of educated blacks , Jews and other Yankee businessmen and calls itself Atlanta. Cobb attitudes are not long removed from being proud segregationists, and from being the government leaders who organized the kidnapping and lynching of Leo Frank on general principal.

I am sure he thought he was comforting the single white female. But the idiot was on body cam.; 9/1/17, 11:40 PM
MaxedOutMama said...: Big Mike - either they were trying to cover for the crash victim cop (who was very badly burned) or they were trying to cover for the other police dept. Whichever, the bottom line is that as a DEPARTMENT, they were either willing to arrest a person fulfilling her responsibilities under the law as a means to protect another cop/cops or were willing to countenance that behavior.

Now consider that you are a defense atty in SLC, and one of these people is involved in an investigation. You've got proof that these officers are not exactly straight arrows. This is very significant misconduct that taints everything these officers touch. They both need to go, and there needs to be a management change at the department. The ENTIRE department is under a cloud for this. It's too extreme.

The Cobb Cty cop (I have now watched that video) was stupid to say that, but he wasn't threatening, he wasn't escalating, and he was trying to get compliance without being a thug about it and probably struggling to keep his cool when being insulted like that. Even the defense atty who got the video agrees that the cop was not threatening. Yet the top management in that department takes the incident very seriously (as indeed they should).

In contrast, the SLC cops clearly believe they are going to get away with it AND THEY DO - until the nurse lawyers up and goes public. The hospital would have had their lawyers on the line with the cops that day. Nothing happened.

A bunch of top cops need to start losing their jobs in departments in which these sorts of abuses are permitted. It's only when the top echelons start feeling the heat that things change. This is just like all those incidents around the country of cops arresting people for legally recording their activity after the SC ruled that it was their constitutional right to do so made it clear that the police generally had no intention of following the law.

There's little more threatening than lawless police. The attitude shown in that video makes it look as if there is very bad problem with the SLC dept.; 9/1/17, 11:45 PM
mockturtle said...: M.O.M. had identified an all-too prevalent condition: That of dishonest and corrupt police departments. The corruption usually goes all the way to the top and often to other city officials. I remember in Seattle in the late 60's or very early 70's the entire police department was purged for corruption.; 9/1/17, 11:56 PM
mockturtle said...: Cameras are doing society no good.

Etienne, cameras are showing us what we'd rather not see. But we, as citizens, are responsible for the way the law is being administered by our police forces. Police have a tough job and most perform it well but there is too much cover-up of infractions and even downright abuse, including confiscation of funds [presumed 'drug money'] that doesn't get turned in.; 9/2/17, 12:10 AM
madAsHell said...: I remember in Seattle in the late 60's or very early 70's the entire police department was purged for corruption.

I think that was Tacoma, or maybe Pierce County cops, but that's my recollection. I think an attorney went down with them.; 9/2/17, 12:11 AM
MaxedOutMama said...: Etienne - yeah, let's dump the whole Bill of Rights because it sometimes protects criminals. What the hell? In this case, the victim was the victim. They didn't get a warrant because they had no probable cause for it. Zip. Nada. If the guy had caused the accident, they would have been able to get a warrant, Utah has this system of electronic warrants (mentioned in the hospital policy). They can do 'em right from a patrol car, and get the electronic warrant in 15 or 20 minutes.

In this case, they couldn't get a warrant because the guy the other cop dept was chasing ran over the line and collided with the patient's truck, and the patient's truck caught on fire and so did the patient. No probable cause. Clear victim. So they are not going to swear out a false warrant! Oh, no, instead they are going to wrongfully arrest the hospital nurse to try to force her to allow an illegal procedure. Had she done this, she would have lost her job and perhaps her license. What a choice you want to provide the medical personnel in this instance. Get arrested for complying with the policy written to comply with federal laws and professional ethics or lose your job and your license by complying with an illegal demand by the cops. How CHARMING.

Btw, I don't even know what good a blood draw tested for illicit substances would do in this instance if the guy were in fact at fault. The poor burn victim was in a medically induced coma, filled with morphine derivatives and a range of other drugs. Tox screens generally will not be either reliable or useful. Yeah, if he had been doped up on PCP or something it might come out. But most types of illegal substances would be swamped by all the stuff in his bloodstream, and there are a bunch of cross reactions with antibiotics and so forth. Oh, yeah, he would test positive for opioids! Sure thing. But it's not evidence of illegal drug use, now is it?

Here's the thing: either they knew the guy was a cop or they didn't. If they didn't know he was a cop, they were trying to illegally get ammo to defend against a lawsuit. To protect cops. They DID know he was a truck driver, and thus must have a CDL. Because the blood draw would be illegally obtained, and thus not valid criminal evidence, it could not have been used in criminal proceedings. However, in civil proceedings it would have definite uses. If, for example, it showed that the man had smoked a joint three weeks ago, they could have gotten his license lifted which would be an excellent lever to use against him in an attempt to defray a lawsuit. And it would probably be useful in threatening family if they tried to sue, assuming the victim here did not survive. Whatever went down here, it is not pretty and it is in no sense an attempt to protect the general public against a wrongdoer.

Now that other cop - he made a valid DUI stop and then was trying to do the right thing. Bad error in judgment, but not willful abuse. And not evidence of a structural deficiency in the Cobb County police department. I am not anti-cop - as long as they are willing to operate under the laws of this country. If they are not willing to operate under the laws, they're just a batch of criminals getting paid from the public purse.; 9/2/17, 12:12 AM
heyboom said...: What about if a patient comes into the ER unconscious? Are they not allowed to draw blood in order to do a complete workup to figure out what is going on?; 9/2/17, 12:14 AM
Gahrie said...: Cops have it tough. First you have to peel the body off the pavement and stick it in a body bag, and then some fucking nurse is worried about the rights of the fucking bastard who rubbed out the innocent fuck on the highway.

Actually the guy the cops were ordering the "fucking nurse" to take blood from was the "innocent fuck" who was hit by the "fucking bastard" who was being chased by the police.; 9/2/17, 12:31 AM
Bob Ellison said...: Heyboom, most ER folks cheerfully break rules just to save the patient.; 9/2/17, 12:32 AM
mockturtle said...: I think that was Tacoma, or maybe Pierce County cops, but that's my recollection. I think an attorney went down with them.

No, it was Seattle.; 9/2/17, 12:36 AM
traditionalguy said...: After watching three videos of this Police Squad in action, they clearly believe they can do anything to anyone at any time and get a away with it. That actually is crazy.

But if this is how they play it, then WLM may start shooting cops too.; 9/2/17, 12:50 AM
mockturtle said...: What about if a patient comes into the ER unconscious? Are they not allowed to draw blood in order to do a complete workup to figure out what is going on?

Yes, in a life or death emergency, informed consent is waived. But the instance cited here had nothing to do with life-saving interventions.; 9/2/17, 12:51 AM
Yancey Ward said...: As a commenter above pointed out- it is important to understand the unconscious driver's role in the accident- he was injured as a by-product of a car chase by the police of another driver. Even if I granted that the officer had the right to blood sample (I don't, the law clearly states otherwise), the very fact that the driver wasn't the cause of the accident makes it almost certain that the police wanted the blood in order to cover their own actions. I wouldn't even put it past them to doctor such a sample.; 9/2/17, 1:06 AM
MaxedOutMama said...: Heyboom - for the purposes of medical treatment, yes. There is a provision for that. But for the purposes of law enforcement unless under specific circumstances, no.

The patient was receiving medical treatment. The officer's demand for a blood draw was a warrantless search prohibited under the Fourth Amendment according to the US SC. Read it here:
https://www.supremecourt.gov/opinions/15pdf/14-1468_8n59.pdf
This case held that blood screenings constituted a search under the Fourth Amendment. In the linked case the SC decided that while breath alcohol tests for arrested persons were not a search, blood alcohol test did constitute a search, and that the states were not allowed to criminally prosecute persons for refusing a blood alcohol test (although civil penalties such as loss of license may apply for refusal). Other than permitted Fourth Amendment exceptions (exigent circumstances, for example), law enforcement officers may not get a blood alcohol or intoxicant test without a judicial warrant. If they arrest someone on suspicion of DUI, and the suspect refuses a BAC, they can get a warrant and then the test.

In this situation, the victim wasn't under arrest and would not be, the police did not seek a warrant (swearing out a false warrant application is a crime), and the patient could not consent. So they arrested the nurse instead for not letting them do what the law allowed the patient to refuse and does not permit a medical practicioner to do? It is hard to describe just how illegal this proceeding was.

Federal law, including HIPAA (overview here)
https://www.hhs.gov/hipaa/for-individuals/guidance-materials-for-consumers/index.html

generally prevent all covered entities, including, but not limited to, hospitals, doctors, pharmacists, nurses, and any employees thereof, from releasing information from health records except in limited circumstances. Compliance with court orders, subpoenas and warrants are explicit exceptions. Duty-to-report laws are explicit exceptions (such as a health care provider's duty to report a child with injuries suggestive of abuse/neglect). This means that the police simply could not demand to see the patient's blood tests or other medical records. Nor do hospitals generally perform the sort of drug screening the officers wanted in this instance. So the police wanted to obtain a blood sample from this unconscious patient in order to submit it to their lab for their own purposes. Such a test would have been a warrantless search, and any lawyer could get it suppressed from criminal evidence. Thus their motive was not law enforcement.; 9/2/17, 1:25 AM
MaxedOutMama said...: Yancey - the conduct here was so extreme that I wouldn't either, although I would note that any blood screen done for common illegal drugs here would show some, due to the fact that patient was being treated for acute burns. Probably also shock. Antibiotics, perhaps some sort of stimulants, and some sort of morphine-type drug so the poor guy simply didn't scream himself to death.

I don't want to continue junking up Ann's blog comments with my enraged reaction to this incident, and to the lack of departmental censure after the incident (which is twice as bad as the initial offense), but I will leave the topic with these observations:

1) This incident shows how important Fourth Amendment protections are - they are a first line of defense against official misdeeds. Errant cops permitted to do random searches without proper cause can make anyone into a criminal. The requirement for probable cause/judicial warrants is an absolute necessity to prevent official abuse of the innocent. It may be insufficient, but without that requirement all bets are off.

2) I do not believe for a moment that the cops didn't know the rules, and that this was a lack of training (as the department is trying to claim). The prosecutors would have been well aware that DUIs could be thrown out if they tried to coerce consent or obtained blood samples without consent. If the prosecutors hadn't been aware, the defense attorneys would have enlightened them in court long before this incident. DUIs are among the most common cases - the prosecutors had discussed necessary procedures with the police and the police were using them. They were knowingly attempting to do something else here, and THAT'S why the cop got so furious when the nurse presented him with the written policy and commented that the hospital had agreed on this with his police department. If it hadn't been deliberate, Detective Thug would have been checking with his own guys at that point.

3) If these police officers were willing to behave in this manner while being filmed, they do indeed believe they can get away with anything, and what is happening when they are alone with some poor individual? As little as I like BLM, and as horrified as I am over the attacks on police, there is a real problem in this country with police. And it's NOT just a few bad officers. It cannot be. SLC is supposed to be a GOOD police department - what are the others like? These are senior officers, not young recruits.; 9/2/17, 2:02 AM
HT said...: Where was the Doctor in charge?

There is no charge doctor as far as I know, but there are charge nurses. In my experience, nurses run hospitals.

Over one million views of that youtube vid.

"The poor burn victim was in a medically induced coma, filled with morphine derivatives and a range of other drugs." Yes, this is what Nurse Alex later said to the Lt, that whatever draw was performed now would be "moot," I believe was her word.

The reason for the blood draw from a completely innocent man are hard to understand. From Reason (blog/magazine): “So Gray's terrible injuries were a consequence of a police chase that he had absolutely nothing to do with. He was in the wrong place at the wrong time. According to the coverage of the arrest, Payne said that he wanted to draw blood from Gray to check for drugs in order to "protect" him in some fashion, not to punish him, and that he was ordered to go collect his blood by police in Logan. It is not made clear in any coverage what exactly the police would protecting him from by drawing his blood without his consent while he was unconscious. Payne also said it was his watch commander, Lt. James Tracy, who told him to arrest Wubbels if she refused to draw blood.”

Apparently Payne was just following orders of Lt Tracy: “Tracy needs to be shown the door, too. We don't see Tracy in the video acting the way Payne did, but it's very clear from the Tribune's coverage that the lieutenant did also insist that he had the authority to force Wubbels to draw blood, even though he most assuredly did not.”

http://reason.com/blog/2017/09/01/every-cop-involved-in-the-arrest-of-this; 9/2/17, 6:31 AM
Wince said...: Why didn't the police proceed with the blood draw and let the hospital interfere with that? Even if that draw was later proven unlawful, any force used would have been to prevent interference with the police by the hospital staff. It's hard to argue the nurse interfered with the police by simply explaining what she construed as the lawful policy.

As to the sarcastic officer, he was indulging a negative racial stereotype against himself with an added dash of professional misconduct, albeit in the involuntary situation of a stop.

Would it be misconduct for an undercover black police officer, in a case of mistaken identity to say sarcastically, "sure, all us African Americans are drug dealers."

In some quarters that would be taken as "speaking truth to power."; 9/2/17, 7:05 AM
MadisonMan said...: I appreciate MaxedOutMama's views on this. What a completely corrupt Police Department!

The statements from both the Mayor and the Police Chief are far too weak.

Why aren't police being fired when they are violating the law? What do they swear to uphold anyway?; 9/2/17, 7:10 AM
gg6 said...: This strikes me as a surprising and disappointing post for this site. It would seem more at home on Page 6 of the NY Post or some other such local tabloid. :-(; 9/2/17, 7:30 AM
sunsong said...: There are bad cops! They need to be held accountable. There is a criminal investigation going on now. We will see whether it will be a whitewash...; 9/2/17, 8:00 AM
exiledonmainstreet, green-eyed devil said...: It would seem more at home on Page 6 of the NY Post or some other such local tabloid. :-(

9/2/17, 7:30 AM

Huh? Page 6 is celebrity gossip. This is about a flagrant abuse of power on the part of the police.

MaxedOutMama has it right.; 9/2/17, 8:25 AM
Hagar said...: I have twice witnessed a cop car with lights and siren going being blocked by a car not yielding the left lane, so the cop turned on his speaker and and asked her to please pull over to the right and she pulls over to the left still blocking him, so the cop says "Your other right, please!"
For this he should be "disciplined"?

The incidennt in Cobb CO. happened a year ago, BTW, so that the video being released now smells of some personal conflict in the police department, but it succeeded in gettinng the cop fired.
A lesson in not ever getting sarcastic with the media! They do not tolerate being made fun of.; 9/2/17, 8:36 AM
Bad Lieutenant said...: Laslo Spatula said...
Harvey Keitel shows how police work is done.

I am Laslo.

9/1/17, 8:57 PM

Well, they shouldn't have been out that late at night with their father's car. If you don't show them what kind of crazy people we have in New York, how are they going to learn? They should have thanked me.; 9/2/17, 9:35 AM
Bad Lieutenant said...: Blogger Earnest Prole said...
I saw this story and immediately headed over here to watch your dopey commenters defend the indefensible.
9/1/17, 11:37 PM

Oh, I get it! You're an asshole. A dopey asshole, it would seem, as you are a commenter here.; 9/2/17, 9:38 AM
William said...: MaxedOutMama's comments are informative and her anger is appropriate. They show why this isn't just a case of a stupid cop losing his temper. This gets worse the more you look at it.; 9/2/17, 10:04 AM
southcentralpa said...: Sweet fancy Moses, is dry comedy delivery becoming a passing thing, now that gushing, heart-on-one's-sleeve-on-Facebook is now the ascendant mode of expression in public ... ? Maybe the older guys on the force need a flashing sign on their back (Kidding ... Kidding ... Kidding) that they can activate so that the dashcam will confirm they are being sarcastic, sardonic, etc ...

I thought the Boomers sucked, but their kids can suck the fun out of ANYthing...; 9/2/17, 11:15 AM
dustbunny said...: I'm in Spain where there is a political movement to get Gibraltar back from the British so Queremos El Rock reads to me as give us The Rock.; 9/2/17, 11:54 AM
Robert Cook said...: "After watching three videos of this Police Squad in action, they clearly believe they can do anything to anyone at any time and get a away with it. That actually is crazy."

I suppose it seems crazy if you're completely unaware that police abuse of their power is widespread and long-entrenched. However, until recently, only minorities and the poor faced it as a living, daily reality. I worked at a hotel decades ago and a kitchen worker had left to join the NYPD. He came back to visit and was sitting in the lunch room talking. He spoke of an affluent part of Manhattan he hated working in, because he had to be polite to the citizens, or they'd complain to the department, whereas, in other, poorer parts of the city, he could be as abusive to citizens as he wished, and they would simply take it. Another worker there, a smart and funny guy who was a bellhop, also left to join the NYPD. He would come back to moonlight for extra cash, and he spoke of some of the brutal things he'd seen other cops do to suspects in the prescint, such as dragging suspects up staircases by their ankles with their hands cuffed behind their backs. My brother still lives in the small beach community in Florida where we grew up. He said once that many of the local police were the "bad" kids he'd known since first grade, the kids who would bully others and get into fights. (It makes sense...people with violent tendencies might be drawn to police work just as people with sexual interest in children are drawn to jobs that puts them in the company of children.) Of course, today, one can find many videos of cop abuses on YouTube. Frank Serpico, to this day, is hated by the NYPD for his part nearly 50 years ago in highlighting widespread corruption in the NYPD.

To show how far back awareness of police abuse goes back, there's a line in Steinbeck's GRAPES OF WRATH, or, at least, the filmed version of it, where Tom Joad, played by Henry Fonda, says, as he's about to leave his family to join in the movement for social reform,"I'll be all around in the dark. I'll be everywhere. Wherever you can look, wherever there's a fight, so hungry people can eat, I'll be there. Wherever there's a cop beatin' up a guy, I'll be there...."

Making things worse today is the ongoing militarization of local police forces, who more and more are being given cast off military armaments and equipment by the federal government. SWAT teams, devised originally for very specific and dangerous situations, are now deployed routinely, even to serve warrants. The police less and less think of citizens as people they serve but as potential perps to fear and hate and subdue. I know not all cops are violent thugs. My girlfriend has several retired and active duty police officers in her family, and they are not thugs. I have a brother who is retired from a federal law enforcement agency. However, even they have spoken of knuckleheads they know or have known who should not be cops. Until bad cops--and their commanding officers or hierarchies who encourage or protect abusive behavior--are punished with loss of jobs and possible criminal sanctions, (just as with the parasites on Wall Street and in the big banks who steal many times more of America's money than all the armed bank robbers and street muggers combined), their abusive or criminal behavior will continue and become more brazen.; 9/2/17, 12:50 PM
mockturtle said...: I suppose it seems crazy if you're completely unaware that police abuse of their power is widespread and long-entrenched. However, until recently, only minorities and the poor faced it as a living, daily reality.

Not so. I remember back in the 'hippie' era, quite a few long-haired white males were subjected to abuse by the police. Some of them were friends of mine.; 9/2/17, 1:30 PM
Krumhorn said...: I can't imagine who thought that arresting the blond charging nurse of the burn unit who was just doing her job in accordance with written university hospital policy was a good idea that would work out well. It was bound to be a PR disaster if not an outright criminal act.

Apart from the ape arresting detective and his smug arrogant supervisor who instructed him to make the arrest, my complete disdain is reserved for the Univerity of Utah police and the hospital security officers who just stood around and watched it all go down. They show you have formed a solid wall around her as a buffer between her and the ape officer and forced an escalation of the matter to vastly higher paygrades. Their job was to protect her and they flapped like helpless fish on the deck.

I certainly would not want to be any of them walking into the place the next day.

Dragging a nurse out of the emergency room screaming?? With cameras on every officer and in the ceiling?? As someone else pointed out, as a former Olympic skier, I doubt that she ever saw things go downhill so quickly after she told the ape to either get a warrant or place the unconscious patient under arrest if he wanted to draw blood. He said that either he was walking out with blood or dragging a body behind him. He also told his lieutenant (in a conversation captured on both body cams) that this could mess up his moonlighting job as a paramedic driver, but that he would bring this hospital all of the transient patients and take the "good patients" to other hospitals.

Let's see. Interfering with a healthcare worker in the performance of her duty. Wrongful arrest. Unnecessary use of force. Kidnapping. Dumping.

Criminal conduct abounds.

- Krumhorn; 9/2/17, 2:37 PM
Hagar said...: The long hair might have been an added attraction for the cops, but really most all of us men have had the experience of driving while young and male, regardless of color.; 9/2/17, 2:51 PM
EMyrt said...: HoodlumDoodlum said...

Moloch smiles.
9/3/17, 12:21 PM

Not quite. Moloch requires babies. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moloc

You are thinking of Caesar. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wicker_man

The 1973 movie has video.

Still Myr; 9/3/17, 4:32 PM