After a day of work at the Engineering Research Center at the University of Arkansas, Kyle Quinn had a pleasant Friday night in Bentonville with his wife and a colleague. They explored an art exhibition at the Crystal Bridges Museum of American Art and dined at an upscale restaurant.
Then on Saturday, he discovered that social media sleuths had incorrectly identified him as a participant in a white nationalist rally some 1,100 miles away in Charlottesville, Va. Overnight, thousands of strangers across the country had been working together to share photographs of the men bearing Tiki torches on the University of Virginia campus. They wanted to name and shame them to their employers, friends and neighbors. In a few cases, they succeeded....
August 15, 2017
Misdoxxing.
"Amateur Sleuths Aim to Identify Charlottesville Marchers, but Sometimes Misfire" (NYT).
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107 comments:
Social Justice Warriors don't need to no edging verification. Where's the social justice in that? Sorry for accidentally wrecking your life, fellow, but , you know, omlers, eggs.
Oh, Jeeze.
When did SJWs become our moms?
The reaction to this meddling isn't going to be pleasant.
So much the same as all those right wingers who accused the wrong man of murder in Charlottesville, when he was at a wedding hundreds of miles away. Well not quite the same - since they accused him of being a murderer.
Remember when the media misidentified a shooter because someone shared the same name on Facebook, but they ran with it because the wrong guy wad a Tea Party guy and they didn't bother to fact check?
I do. That should have been a warning about trying to ID people in the internet age. If I were one of these people misidentified, I would bring down the fire and the fury.
Alt-Right Media Framed Wrong Person in Car Attack, Labeled Him ‘Anti-Trump Druggie’
So the lesson is: If you're going to riot, wear a mask, like the antifa.
Assholes are like opinions. Everybody has one.
No one was framed for the crime. If you can't link an honest headline, don't waste our time. The internet misidentified the guy. Which has been happening since the internet existed. It was a mistake, but unlike identifying non public people to smear them one that is easily remedied. If only every internet screw up was that easily fixed.
So ARM's position is that the alt-right gets it wrong, so it's okay for him and others who agree with him politically get it wrong.
Got it.
People are known by the company they keep, ARM, and you're bad company if ever I've seen it.
"Effing," not "edging." Effing autocorrect.
As long as the narrative gets advanced, the truth is of minimal significance. Who can blame people for doing this, when Al Gore, Dan Rather and Michael Moore are lionized and made rich by spreading lies?
I disagree, Matthew. The guy was put through Hell for a while. He didn't deserve it, and it could have been avoided with a little bit of verification.
If this is so virtuous why are the Goggles and the Snapfaces leaving the work to amateurs? Too hard to monetize? Never stopped them before...
link tInternet sites falsely accused Michigan man of Charlottesville attackext
""I don't think it's careless," attorney says. "I think it was their intent to try to muddle" the truth of what happened in Charlottesville."
So not only did they falsely accuse someone of murder but they did so to distract from the real killer and those responsible for bringing this murderer to Charlottesville.
The fact the NYT seems to think that this is just a case of breaking some eggs for an omelette worries me. Remember not so long ago when doxxing was universally bad? Now I guess collateral damage is accepted when punching Nazis.
So ARM, do you feel better by achieving equivalency with the mistakes of your sworn enemies?
Back to the white dunce caps.
Has anyone estimated the numbers from each group? I'll bet it's laughably small on the white side, yet some came from California. If we ignored them, they won't grow. Now they will.
I agree it could have been avoided. But he wasn't framed.
A question for the Althouse commentariat:
Does support for the values of western civilization (The Rise of the West) equal support for white supremacy (hey-hey, ho-ho, western civ has got to go!)?
Does it matter? Is the issue the content of the ideas or the identity of the tribes?
That would be an internet riot. And Mobs could care less about identification. They mostly go by hair style and skin color. The destruction of things and people is FUN.
They mis-identify statues too. In Atlanta they went after the Peace Statue erected to show an Angel helping dead soldiers come back to life in a New South. ISIS does a better job of identifying historical icons for destruction.
Big Mike said...
So ARM's position is that
Althouse is a complete hypocrite. The worst action here, by far, was the false accusation or murder.
Tommy Duncan said...
achieving equivalency
You cannot see the two situations are not equivalent? Sad!
The worst action here, by far, was the false accusation or murder.
Another new low!
Somebody or other Vince Fostered.
ARM is a dishonest hack.
those responsible for bringing this murderer to Charlottesville.
He didn't steal a car, and the group he was photographed with didn't own him. Which groups were bused in?
It's a difficult task. Facial recognition from photos and videos. Even the pros get it wrong.
American is Cleared After Woman is Shoved Into Path of London Bus
Where is the law going on doxxing? It sort of feels like harassment, but it depends on the context.
They aren't. No one identified the one guy with the intent of ruining his life and shaming him to make an example of him to others. They were just idiots who found the wrong guy and jumped the gun because it fit their preconceived notions.
The Nazi hunters want to ruin these people. They knowingly want these people's lives ruined. They're two radically different kind of errors that lead to the same result. In the first case though it is easier to fix since you have to prove you're not a specific person. In the second, you have to prove you're not a wrong thinker before the mob gets a pound of flesh.
Both are wrong, but they're not the same.
What's white supremacy? Derb lists 7 things called white supremacy, only one of which seems to involve ill will towards others.
http://www.johnderbyshire.com/Opinions/RadioDerb/2016-12-02.html
Item 05.
The rest are at worst mistaken.
Macomb Man In Fear For Life After Mistakenly Identified As Deadly Driver From White Nationalist Rally In Virgina
Let's doxx everyone who was there. Pass Bonehead ID laws so everyone has to wear a big name tag to protest.
Matthew S said :
Remember when the media misidentified a shooter because someone shared the same name on Facebook, but they ran with it because the wrong guy wad a Tea Party guy and they didn't bother to fact check?
I do too. The mainstream press did that. It was worth it though. The democrat-press were able to smear the tea party as planned. Even though it wasn't true. hacks.
I wish that guy would have sued.
I disagree with the doxxing of the fascist dimwits but it is a lesser evil than accusing an innocent man of murder to deflect attention away from the people who were really responsible for an innocent woman's murder. The people that did this are the scum of the earth and should be prosecuted.
Large numbers of people are traveling long distances to be at these events.
They show up with pre-printed signs, dropped off in rental vans and busses.
Who's paying for this?
Klavan yesterday dismissed Derbyshire as one of the fallen, pseudoeducated people who seem educated to the uneducated. But then Klavan dismisses Derrida as well.
Klavan is limited in what complexity he has time for.
Still, he's good at zingers so worth listening to.
I disagree with the doxxing of the fascist dimwits but it is a lesser evil than accusing an innocent man of murder to deflect attention away from the people who were really responsible for an innocent woman's murder. The people that did this are the scum of the earth and should be prosecuted.
Scum of the earth isn't a crime.
I imagine there's not likely to be agreement on who the scum are at any given time, so you probably don't want the law involved in that, speaking as a system stability expert.
One against antifa / Blm.
No idea if actions result:
https://safestreetsproject.org
And a list of sjw
https://sjwlist.com
Matthew Sablan said...
No one identified the one guy with the intent of ruining his life and shaming him to make an example of him to others.
No they misidentified him in order to muddy who was responsible for a MURDER. Complete scum. Disgusting foul animals.
Dodge must be worried that people can't get their model names right.
Maybe scum can be like hate in a hate crime, an additional predicate.
Scum-being.
Employing these tactics shows that the alt-left no longer can claim to have a sense of decency. The New McCarthyism - would the Senator be proud?
Disgusting is always a term for something that can't be analyzed by the system.
That is, for which no argument can be offered.
Murther most foul.
Did the people who were wrong admit their error? If so, given the precedent set with national news media, it will be very hard to prosecute for being wrong. And to do so and win would be a terrible precedent. You need to prove malice. It was being reported the guy wad in custody when the misidentification happened. How do you prove incompetent internet sleuths wanted to harm someone they believed to be in police custody? They were wrong. And assholes. That's not a crime.
Targeting people to ruin their lives is different. These people are also wrong and assholes. But we can prove their motives are nefarious and designed to intimidate people.
This is the most pathetic one-sided rationalization I have ever read on Althouse, and that is a high bar to cross.
They don't call it a Dodge for nothing.
Remember when the irs and chick fil a criminals had their motives misidentified as being conservative ones? Or the radical environmentalist was called a conservative? Do you really want to open the floor to suing media and individuals for being wrong and not doing due diligence?
RE: MSM publicly naming the wrong guy for a mass murder. ABC's Brian Ross. Who never lost his job.
He's the hack who fingered the wrong man - because tea party. But it's all groovy when leftwing democrat progressive media hacks lie.
Twitter really is going to ruin us.
This is the most pathetic one-sided rationalization I have ever read on Althouse, and that is a high bar to cross.
Another new low! They keep coming, amazingly. Assuming pathetic isn't a new category independent of high/low.
Remember extremes are harder and harder to exceed as you go along, and keep track.
Like temperature records, they get less and less frequent as the record list grows.
There's no antecedent for "this," by the way.
Yes - when the MSM purposefully smears and hides behind "we rushed the story" - there should be consequences.
Are are you now, or have you ever been, a member of the white supremacists?
It's called "terrorism."
What does the KKK believe today? Things must have changed from the days it was run by democrats.
Is it white separatist to want white safe spaces. Say on campus.
According to ARM:
"It's different when we do it!"
Leftists like ARM are everything they pretend to hate.
Grand Kliegl. Isn't that an actress?
As Ann pointed out yesterday, just because she, or some other blogger posts the obvious, doesnt mean that aren't fully aware of what is going on.
The left lives for the narrative. injuring innocents is collateral damage and the left does not care. They will ruin their own, if the payoff is even plus one, on the cost/payoff scale.
The end justifies the means. That's why it's fine to actively work against the constitution to gain and keep power. The left knows best, and nothing is sacred, except the power to tell others how to live their lives.
@exiledonmainstreet, +1
So I disagree with the actions of both sides and am therefore a bad guy? Dummies.
If the antifa hadn't shown up in Charlottesville with clubs in their hands and violence on their minds, James Fields would be back at home looking after his mother and Heather Heyer would still be alive. But this didn't happen so ARM is a happy man. He gets to use Heather Heyer to bludgeon the right.
It's entertainment that supports the media that bring it to your waiting eyeballs, and serves the interest of both combatants.
Deplore the media too and you'll be onto something.
Soap opera.
Don't do it yourself, as well.
Big Mike said...
If the antifa hadn't shown up in Charlottesville with clubs in their hands and violence on their minds, James Fields would be back at home looking after his mother and Heather Heyer would still be alive.
Blaming the victim.
So I disagree with the actions of both sides and am therefore a bad guy? Dummies.
That could easily have been a tweet from Trump during the past weekend.
Is there any legal recourse for people who are misidentified and harassed this way? It seems close to libel/slander to me.
Big Mike said...
James Fields would be back at home looking after his mother
Years before a 20-year-old Ohio man allegedly rammed his car into a panicked crowd of activists in Charlottesville, it was his disabled mother who was terrified.
He had previously attacked his disabled mother.
"Is there any legal recourse for people who are misidentified and harassed this way? It seems close to libel/slander to me."
-- It matters. In the case of the people deliberately targeted, it is much easier to show malice, than the person who was misidentifies and the record corrected. They might be able to show that misidentifying alone is egregious enough, but that'll be hard to do as the media routinely makes mistakes of that magnitude with nothing happening, including ideologically driven people like targeting the Tea Party, Sarah Palin, etc., with smears.
So, it is possible, but the current state of the legal landscape makes it unlikely to win for a "woops, we were wrong, sorry," but much more likely for targeting someone specifically to ruin their life and being wrong.
Oh those little SJW scamps! What will they get up to next? Well what are you going to do? Peaceful protesters can sometimes make totally innocent mistakes.
It is not like the fellow they mistakenly "fingered" has had his life and family and work threatened or anything... wait, what? Oh... Never mind...
"So I disagree with the actions of both sides and am therefore a bad guy?"
-- Think of it as like when Trump condemned everyone, but people thought that he was being insincere for not naming and shaming correctly. Yeah, sure, you "disagree with the actions of both sides," but it sure looks like you'd rather downplay and ignore one, while focusing on the other. I think those are stupid rules, but hey, that's the world we live in now.
eggs and omelets.
There is only one side.
Those with power - those without are not a side because they don't count.
To know who is who, consider that these people got some minimum wage fool fired from his job at a hotdog stand.
No matter his politics, what all of you actually are is that guy at the hotdog stand. Any moment, if they require it, that will be you.
AReasonableMan said...
So much the same as all those right wingers who accused the wrong man of murder in Charlottesville, when he was at a wedding hundreds of miles away. Well not quite the same - since they accused him of being a murderer.
8/15/17, 7:03 AM
1) Accused the wrong man of murder? What who?
2) Something something whataboutism.
(Also known as tu quoque, I believe. What a great catchphrase. Always be the first attacker, because then replies are always TQ!)
3) If you like, 'so much the same as Robert Mueller and James Comey trying to frame Steven Hatfill for the anthrax attacks?'
No matter his politics, what all of you actually are is that guy at the hotdog stand. Any moment, if they require it, that will be you.
If only there was some sort of historical precedent to guide us away from such madness.
If only....
"1) Accused the wrong man of murder? What who?"
-- A bunch of internet sleuths, after learning the guy was arrested but the police refusing to release information on him, tried to identify him by pictures of the car and other means. They were wrong in their early attempts at identifying him.
They doxxed they guy who is doing the doxing. He looks surprisingly like Fields, except he's fatter and has a beard.
ARM: the people who were really responsible for an innocent woman's murder.
What PEOPLE, you cocksucker? There was ONE DRIVER!!!
Thanks Will.
AReasonableMan said...
Big Mike said...
James Fields would be back at home looking after his mother
Years before a 20-year-old Ohio man allegedly rammed his car into a panicked crowd of activists in Charlottesville, it was his disabled mother who was terrified.
He had previously attacked his disabled mother.
8/15/17, 7:57 AM
Shush, ARM. It vitiates the "Nazi assassins" theme to remind people that it was a lone nut.
Richard Jewell is not available for comment.
Is ARM going full SJW on us?
How ironic.
Or hypocritical.
You know. Either one.
Rusty said...
Is ARM going full SJW on us?
No, just trying to bring some rational balance to these discussion. It is dull tedious work, as you might expect given some of the participants, but each day I try to bring a little joy and light into this vast cauldron or right wing hatred.
The left's two minutes of hate isn't isn't going to be derailed by something insignificant like accuracy.
The hate must be fed.
The highly irrational is "trying to bring some rational balance to these [sic] discussion.
You have a sense of humor after all, ARM.
There was a protest at Auburn University (Alabama) a few months ago. Alabama has a law against wearing masks in such situations, as does many other areas. Step one by local cops was to,peacefully, unmask the protestors. Having their faces exposed took a lot of the steam out of the crowd.
I recommend the tactic.
Re the misdoxxing of people as participants in the KKK/Nazi march in Charlottesville: I don't see how "malice" could be an issue. A plaintiff in a defamation case has to show malice only if he/she is a public figure. However, how can a guy who was falsely identified as a participant in the march, when in fact he wasn't there and had no connection with the march, be a public figure? He's just a private citizen. I might have questioned whether it's defamatory to say that someone participated in a legally permitted demonstration, but now that every media outlet and the President of the United States have condemned the participants as racists and bigots, I guess that's not an issue anymore, right?
AReasonableMan said...
Rusty said...
Is ARM going full SJW on us?
No, just trying to bring some rational balance to these discussion. It is dull tedious work, as you might expect given some of the participants, but each day I try to bring a little joy and light into this vast cauldron or right wing hatred.
This isn't hate.
You want hate?
Visit your friends at 'The Daily Kos'
The true hate is what continues to pile up in quiet people's hearts. Not the marginal ones with nothing to lose, but the responsible ones with obligations.
It's more efficient to be denounced to private persons and organizations, rather than denounced to government authorities.
It is well for the troglodytes of the Althouse commentariat that ARM and Comrade LLR are always here "to bring rational balance" to the arena. Keep caressing that beam in your eyes, fellas.
"Is there any legal recourse for people who are misidentified and harassed this way? It seems close to libel/slander to me."
Godfather got the answer first - defamation is available, and "actual malice" is not required for non-public figures (Humor there - in Palin v NYT, the NYT's defense seems to be right now that it's editors don't read the paper, in order to refute Actual Malice because she is still a public figure).
The first problem is accurately identifying the misdoxer, who may be trying to maintain some anonymity herself. Secondly, and maybe more importantly, they may be, and likely are, effectively judgment-proof. SJW living in his parents' basement, wearing only his underwear, or maybe those Obamacare footed PJs. Probably have quit paying on their student debt already, so you would stand behind Uncle Sam in collecting - and the SJW's debt to you can be discharged in bankruptcy, but not the student loan debt. Winning would likely hurt the misdoxed more than the misdoxer.
The Godfather said...
how can a guy who was falsely identified as a participant in the march, when in fact he wasn't there and had no connection with the march, be a public figure?
He's not a public figure but to collect he has to show damages. The correction was made so quickly it would be tough to do that, and it's highly unlikely the damages would exceed the pain of the collection process.
I have a cousin who doxxes people on Facebook. I hope he dies from the slowest, most painful form of anal cancer.
ARM, don't you ever get tired of making tu quoque responses? We certainly get tired of reading them.
Any company that would fire an employee for participating in a legal demonstration--of any kind--deserves to be boycotted.
I can see how someone in Berkeley could turn very far anti-left, even working in a trendy restaurant, but did he pay for his trip himself?
Meanwhile the PD allows ANTIFA to wear masks, which I thought was against the law in all states?
@Rick, you're right that a misdoxxee may not have suffered recoverable damages if the misidentification was promptly corrected. On the other hand, it's well known that truth sometimes takes a long time to catch up with a lie, and in that time the victim's reputation could suffer severe injury, he could lose his job, etc. I think there's good reason for a potential doxxer to think twice. Or even once.
I don't know why people bother with ARM; he's a greasy lying little shit who posts enough to get into a troll war. Plying word games, and shifting goalposts; and the reason the US is so divided and the hostile discourse that the left generate. he is the kind of low life that would have themselves beaten up so they can blame the 'right'.
This whole Doxxing thing and his response is 'the alt-right did it first!'. The more this goes on the immoral scum like this becomes the new norm. The tragedy being that they see nothing wrong with their behavior.
There's a reason leftist and their scummy violent SJWs, BLMs and whatever hateful group the left generates, hide their faces and identities. When focus comes in on how obnoxious these groups are ARM does the typical focus shift and everyone goes off into his dung filled pig trough.
I think there's good reason for a potential doxxer to think twice. Or even once.
I'm not suggesting I approve the tactic, I don't. But it's hard to imagine someone could lose their job over a corrected mis-identification and in this case no such evidence was presented. I heard about the correction at the same time I heard about the original error. So while the guy was probably stunned (being an average Joe and thus not understanding the level of hate these people have) I don't see any quantifiable damage.
DHunter wonders: Meanwhile the PD allows ANTIFA to wear masks, which I thought was against the law in all states?
If so, it is never enforced. Seattle anarchists always wear masks.
Anthony Scaramucci got misdoxxed right then detoxxed left - doxxologizing Plato in his Academy prodoxxing forth to his supple students by defining man as a featherless biped until Diogenes plucked and tossed a truly featherless chicken over the wall to land it at Plato’s feet. It’s impossible for those who don’t understand the economies of scale in arthropod society to know how Plato felt. So many variations, but so little time for taxa, yet much money to make in the slaughterhouse of the featherless.
Feste, LOL!
The same thing happened when the social justice adventurists targeted men, women, and children associated with the "white" Hispanic.
No matter his politics, what all of you actually are is that guy at the hotdog stand. Any moment, if they require it, that will be you.
Including the not so common wealthy Republicans and Democrats, conservatives, libertarians, liberals, and progressives, too. This is unlikely to be a purely domestic threat to the People and our Posterity. It is foreign influenced and generational.
The true hate is what continues to pile up in quiet people's hearts.
Yeah, a dysfunctional convergence seems to be inevitable, only limited by the robust distribution of wealth in our nation.
only limited by the robust distribution of wealth in our nation
And, perhaps, the inertia of principles.
Wow. So many people focused on the problem of doxxing the wrong person.
When the real problem is that it's wrong to dox anybody, even the right person. It's immoral for the same reasons as the Hollywood blacklist.
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