August 28, 2017

"Black-clad antifa attack peaceful right wing demonstrators in Berkeley."

That's a WaPo headline. Surprised?
Their faces hidden behind black bandannas and hoodies, about a 100 anarchists and antifa — “anti-fascist” — barreled into a protest Sunday afternoon in Berkeley’s Martin Luther King Jr. Civic Center Park.

Jumping over plastic and concrete barriers, the group melted into a larger crowd of around 2,000 that had marched peacefully throughout the sunny afternoon for a “Rally Against Hate” gathering.
By paragraph 3, the bad people disappear into an abstraction:
Shortly after, violence began to flare. 
The passive voice begins to flare:
A pepper-spray wielding Trump supporter was smacked to the ground with homemade shields. Another was attacked by five black-clad antifas, each windmilling kicks and punches into a man desperately trying to protect himself....
By the way the police gave way to "antifa protesters — armed with sticks and shields, and clad in shin pads and gloves," and the Berkeley police chief, Andrew Greenwood, offered a lame defense: “No need for a confrontation over a grass patch.”

189 comments:

Laslo Spatula said...

Guns will be coming into play soon.

Then the Shit Show will really get started.

I am Laslo.

Laslo Spatula said...

The Antifa is underlining the connection of the First and Second Amendments.

When the Government cannot keep you safe for Free Speech then it seems Free Speech requires a Militia.

I am Laslo.

madAsHell said...

Concord Hymn.

YoungHegelian said...

Yes, it's becoming obvious even to the bourgeois liberals at the Post that they have lost control over their Red Guards. "No Enemies on the Left" is a proposition that liberals have to work through over & over again.

I'm trying to figure out what are the ideological foundations of Antifa, & honestly, it is the most ideologically barren left-wing movement I've come across. If it's anarchist, it shows no understanding of any school of Anarchist ideology that I'm familiar with. It seems to have little interest in class-consciousness, too. This makes me think more & more that it's simply an armed-resistance wing of some other more ideologically undergirded lefty movement.

Here's its FB page, which is about the most "sophisticated" presentation I could find. There's no "there" there.

traditionalguy said...

Soros thugs are an arm of the Democrat Party. They beat opponents while the Democrat owned police stand and watch after they set up the crowd in a good location to be attacked on command.

Soros needs to be arrested and deported and take his paid Congressmen with him.

Robert said...

No need for a confrontration over a grass patch on which people we disagree with are standing.

sykes.1 said...

Antifa and BLM have effectively nullified freedom of speech, freedom of religion and freedom of assembly. Surely freedom of the press is next. Or maybe that has already happened. Several years ago, under Obama, armed Black Power thugs attempted to block access to voting booths, and partially succeeded. I hope no one thinks the US is a representative democracy any more. I should have thought that a law blog would have noticed this.

Martin said...

I believe it is a federal crime for local officials to not act as their powers require to protect people in the exercise of their rights under Federal law and the Constitution. Goes back to the Civil Rights era.

If that is the case, DoJ should immediately open a criminal investigation of Berkeley's mayor and the police chief, whose statement as quoted is virtually a confession.

Btb, for those of us old enough to remember, when was the last time that there were widespread instances of citizens attempting to peacefully assemble, who were assaulted by other citizens while the local authorities did nothing to protect them?

rcocean said...

Maybe some lawyer can tell me why the right-wing challengers can't sue Berkeley for standing and letting them be attacked.

Further, the antifa seem to be a criminal conspiracy since they are organized financed and engage in violence and denial of people's right to assembly and speech. I wonder if the DoJ can go after them.

That the leftwing MSM covers for them, is not surprising. But I'm disappointed, our handful conservative media outlets seem incurious as to WHO EXACTLY is funding antifa and WHO EXACTLY is leading them. Isn't it curious that they always know when and where to show up, and they all show up with black masks and well armed?

Ralph L said...

Oh come on, people, there was violence on both sides!

Ralph L said...

I'd heard the Pepperballs guy was arrested after he joked about it online.
I still laugh at the Whitney Houston version.

rcocean said...

BTW, the press is still talking about Chancellorsville and Trump's supposed gaffe.

Its all part of the constant effort to link Trump to nazi/kkk in order to energize the black/minority vote in 2018.

The constant Conservative attempt to defuse invalid/hysterical charges of "racism" by defensive whining about how "No one hates racism/Nazis more than me" - isn't working. They need to Counter-attack by charging the left with being UnPatriotic and anti-american or NAMBLA supporters or something.

But then do Conservatives really want to win? They seem to be happy just losing - as long as they don't lose too fast.

Martha said...

Even Morning Joe is outraged by what happened in Berkeley. But Joe seemed to be blaming Berkeley the University and not Antifa, the black masked thugs.

Hunter said...

“I applaud the more than 7,000 people who came out today to peacefully oppose bigotry, hatred and racism that we saw on display in Charlottesville,” Berkeley Mayor Jesse Arreguín said in a statement. ” … However, the violence that small group of protesters engaged in against residents and the police, including throwing smoke bombs, is unacceptable. Fighting hate with hate does not work and only makes each side more entrenched in their ideological camps.”

So what I gather from this is the Berkeley mayor is now a Nazi apologist and sympathizer.

Laslo Spatula said...

Pretty soon Free Speech will need Sanctuary Cities.

I am Laslo.

Kansas Scout said...

There will be a reckoning. Each time this happens and the police stand by leaving people in a lawless condition and being harmed...sets the table for a remorseless push back. It's on the way if sanity fails to return to liberal city police depts.

Laslo Spatula said...

Antifa Andrew, Fighter of Fascists...

To be honest, I got involved in the Antifa because of my girlfriend. She told me she couldn't be with someone who wasn't dedicated to fighting Fascists, and I didn't want to have to find a new girlfriend: the cute girls who AREN'T Antifa are way out of my league....

I didn't have any black clothes or anything to use as a mask -- I have Oxford shirts and khakis, mostly -- so we went shopping together and Tania bought me Antifa clothes: she put it on her father's Visa card, so we were sticking it to the man already...

I felt out of place at the first meeting I attended: some of these people seem SO angry. I mean, I get it: Fascism sucks. But I didn't realize how much around me was Fascist: even my car was Fascist, because it could only seat four of us on our way to a demonstration. So my girlfriend and I went to the Used Car lot and traded it for a van...

I am Laslo.

The Drill SGT said...

the group melted into a larger crowd of around 2,000 that had marched peacefully throughout the sunny afternoon for a “Rally Against Hate” gathering.

Except of course for the black clothes, face masks, bats and shields...

They blended right in

tcrosse said...

“No need for a confrontation over a grass patch.”

They had the choice between confrontation and dishonor. They chose dishonor and they will have confrontation.

gspencer said...

If the police won't do their jobs, lets start by taking away the salary of the police chief, then start working down from there to the captains, lieutenants, and so forth.

We aren't getting what we're paying for.

Ignorance is Bliss said...

By the way the police gave way to "antifa protesters — armed with sticks and shields, and clad in shin pads and gloves," and the Berkeley police chief, Andrew Greenwood, offered a lame defense: “No need for a confrontation over a grass patch.”

Not to defend the police, who entirely failed to protect the constitutional rights of the original rally-goers, but the timeline is very unclear in the article. The vague impression I get is that a significant number of antifa forced their way into the park, drove out the original rally-goers, and the police only stepped aside after the original rally-goers had been driven out.

Poorly written article, poor initial policing, but I'm not sure the step aside was bad at that point.

Big Mike said...

Surprised?

Damned right!

HoodlumDoodlum said...

and the Berkeley police chief, Andrew Greenwood, offered a lame defense: “No need for a confrontation over a grass patch.”

No need for a confrontation over bad people getting beaten in the streets. These "free speech" people are really Trump people, and Trump people are really racist bigot Nazis and we all know it's ok to punch Nazis, so no need to get our hands dirty as cops when Nazis are being beaten in the streets.

Hey, Mitt Romney and Marco Rubio agree--the people "fighting Nazis" have been endorsed by real Republicans like those two, so I'm not sure how anyone else can object at this point. Anyone who isn't an ugly snowflake Nazi bigot, I mean.

Michael K said...

Its all part of the constant effort to link Trump to nazi/kkk in order to energize the black/minority vote in 2018.

Bingo !

But then do Conservatives really want to win? They seem to be happy just losing - as long as they don't lose too fast.

This is the story.

What will bring the Rule of Law back? How do we get to the Conserva-Eden we are expected to act like we already reside it? Perhaps another statement of principle? Maybe another post on some unread conservajournal? I know – how about more complaining about how frustrated conservatives are uncouth and should just sit there and take whatever fascist garbage the left dishes out?

Paul Ryan could not be reached for comment. He was hiding under his desk.

tim in vermont said...

"No more Marxism" is hate speech, clear and simple, and standing up for the right to say it is worse, it shows insolence, and that's intolerable.

Matthew Sablan said...

On the bright side, I bet Westboro Baptist aren't going to go be dicks in public any more.

Bill, Republic of Texas said...

Where is Sessions? He's another worthless politician.

He should have DOJ and FBI observers at these Rally's. He should have opened a civil rights investigation against Berkeley city and police department after the last violent attack against peaceful protesters.

What about the IRS? Shouldn't there be a multi-million dollar settlements with the Tea Party groups that were abused by the IRS. Also open the rewards to anyone who may have wanted to start a Tea Party organization but didn't. Ala Pigford.

To pay these people announce there will be no raises or COLA for any IRS employee for the next 4 years. If that isn't enough make it 8 years.

tim in vermont said...

The right wing and their support of free speech deserves these beat downs. Hitler was a huge admirer of our Bill of Rights.

HoodlumDoodlum said...

Ignorance is Bliss said...Poorly written article, poor initial policing, but I'm not sure the step aside was bad at that point.

Why? Wouldn't that in effect validate the tactics of the people using violence for political ends? Doesn't that teach them that the path to getting their way (to driving out opposing voices) is to use violence?
Seems like that's the time the police need to step in!

Either the State has a monopoly on violence or it doesn't. If the cops send the message that its acceptable to use political violence only in CERTAIN cases then they're really just signing up on one side--they're making themselves an arm of Leftist violence.
If violence is acceptable as a tool for political change and if the police (in places like Berkeley) are aligning on the side of the Left...well, things get very bad from here.

Worse, I mean. This shit is bad already. I'm as angry with the Republicans who endorsed Antifa violence as I have ever been with any politicians. It's the predictability of all of this that's most exasperating. What did you people think would happen?! Where do you think this will end?

Matthew Sablan said...

Isn't this roughly the same life cycle that Occupy went through? The cities and the left kind of turn a blind eye to it until it gets too out of control, and then they bring the hammer down?

tim in vermont said...

https://mtlcounter-info.org/en/no-face-no-case-in-defence-of-smashing-corporate-media-cameras/

They have been after freedom of the press for a while.

JLScott said...

@Drill SGT

Except of course for the black clothes, face masks, bats and shields...

They blended right in


It would be easy if 2000 who had peacefully marched thoughout the afternoon were also wearing black clothes and masks and carrying bats and shields.

Kate said...

I saw the video of the man with mace. He was young, skinny (not a Based Stickman) and was trying to leave the area. He threatened with the spray can until he was overwhelmed by many and beaten on the ground.

Big Mike said...

Btb, for those of us old enough to remember, when was the last time that there were widespread instances of citizens attempting to peacefully assemble, who were assaulted by other citizens while the local authorities did nothing to protect them?

@Martin, I'm in my seventies and yesterday I commented on how much I was reminded of the Freedom Riders and Martin Luther King's non-violent protest marches (which turned very violent when the thugs showed up and the police stood aside -- or joined in).

furious_a said...

Antifa are the muscle to the Left's sugar-daddy dark money and the Dem oarty's microphone.

As the Provos were to Sinn Fein.
As PLO is to Fatah.
As KKK were to "Citizens' Committees".
As Sutrmabteiling were to Nazionalsozialismus.

Somebody's paying for all those bus tickets and squats and bail pleadings, there are Pulitzer Prizes and RICO indictments for anyone curious enough to look.

The Godfather said...

Surely you're not telling me that Trump was right about antifa?

HoodlumDoodlum said...

rcocean said...Maybe some lawyer can tell me why the right-wing challengers can't sue Berkeley for standing and letting them be attacked.

The police have no legal duty to protect any individual. Even if you could demonstrate that the police brass acted negligently they'd probably have sovereign immunity from any real consequences. The politicians in these places are usually strongly Left so they're not exactly concerned about violations of rights of individuals who aren't Left. Sad but true.

Now typically people in charge recognize that the norm of "open political violence is not acceptable in America" is important to uphold even when any particular acts of violence might be undertaken against one's political opponents, and that's reason enough to actually do a good job of keeping violence to a minimum. That norm seems to be very quickly becoming a thing of the past, though, with the complicity of "smart" people across the political spectrum.

Our elites are so fucking stupid they may actually not understand what they're letting happen here.

There have to be others like me who are starting to look at lampposts.

LilyBart said...

Guns will be coming into play soon.

Well, lets ask Steven Scalisa what he thinks about that statement! That shooter was all hyped up on hate for the right and for Trump. He calmly planned and prepared to shoot as many republicans as he could.

furious_a said...

Where do you think this will end?

See "Greensboro, 1977, 'Death to the Klan' Rally".

Matthew Sablan said...

"Poorly written article, poor initial policing, but I'm not sure the step aside was bad at that point."

-- It was terrible. The lesson now is, beat your opponents quickly, brutally and efficiently, and the police will step back, but if you don't, then you might have to deal with the police. You've actually incentivized violence against other citizens to ensure you don't have to deal with legal consequences.

tim in vermont said...

"those bus tickets and squats and bail pleadings, there are Pulitzer Prizes and RICO indictments for anyone curious enough to look."

Yeah sure, more likely it would be professional suicide.

LilyBart said...

Of course I realized I misspelled Scalise's name about the time I hit "enter". I wish this comment section had an edit feature.

Roughcoat said...

Anymore, it seems nobody -- or very few -- wrongdoers get punished for doing wrong. And when they do get punished, the punishment is negligible. Very depressing.

Caligula said...

The latest message from our "Antifa": "No Trump, no Wall, no USA at all!"

And (of course) reporters are targets. And how shall they respond, will they hide their cameras and profess solidarity with the thugs, or will they actually show the public these latter-day Brownshirts for what they are?


furious_a said...

Blogger Ralph L said...
Oh come on, people, there was violence on both sides.


"Violence erupted", "clashes broke out", "Injuries in van attack", etc.

Honors English teacher back in the HS days went incandescent at the use of the Passive Voice. Red-lined assignments like an East German border guard if she didn't tear them up outright and make us start over. I'm beginning to see why.

sunsong said...

Antifa is giving Trump and the Nazis exactly what they want. How stupid! But a guy there to cover the protests helped one of the Nazis:

"While covering Sunday’s “Rally Against Hate” in Berkeley, California, today, Reveal host Al Letson witnessed a man being attacked by a group of protesters. The man was balled up on the ground, fending off blows from several people. Letson, wearing a red T-shirt, jumped in front of the batterers, protecting the man from further injury..."

Reveal host Al Letson shields man from beating at anti-hate rally

wildswan said...

I like the way the people on the right have turned into "a grass patch." Sort of visual photoshopping. Here's people getting beaten up - but here's the mainslime media picture of the event - "a grass patch." In a cemetery?

YoungHegelian said...

@Caligula,

And (of course) reporters are targets.

How can someone with a camera, reporter or not, not be a target? You're taking photos of a criminal in the middle of committing a crime! In court, that's called evidence.

The Antifa guys also know that a photo can be used as the beginnings of a doxxing. How do they know this? Because they do it to the other side all the time.

The Godfather said...

When one Hispanic guy shot one Black guy in Sanford, FL, the DOJ sent in a team to investigate. When a White cop shot a Black guy in self-defense in Ferguson, MO, the DOJ sent in a team to investigate. Isn't it time for DOJ to send in a team to Berkeley to investigate? Or are they too busy trying to figure out if Trump colluded with the Russians to hack the DNC and Clinton Campaign?

Robert Cook said...

Given that the police allowed this to happen, I must wonder: are they a cadre of agents provocateurs?

Professional lady said...

Is there a pattern here? Trump says something that is "OUTRAGEOUS!!!!" Mainstream media, talking heads, RINOs etc. go ballistic in their condemnation of our XXX@@@!!! president. Trump refuses to back down or apologize. Subsequent events show that Trump was pretty accurate in his initial evaluation/statement.

YoungHegelian said...

@sunsong,

But a guy there to cover the protests helped one of the Nazis:

There were no Nazis in the Berkeley protests, simply Trumpites. There were Nazis for real in Charlottesville.

Unless you want every left-wing demonstrator tarred as a member of the Maoist Revolutionary Communist Party (which are always at these protests), it pays to return the courtesy of maintaining ideological distinctions to the other side.

Paul said...

Berkeley police are the new brown shirts. They let the mobs do their 'enforcement' of the politicians views. Simple as that.

Go look at the videos of the German police in 1938 where they let the mobs beat the Jews and others in the streets. Same thing.

Henry said...

Odd that no attempt is made to qualify the targeted right-wing groups. From what I can read the groups were conservative / libertarian / oddball. Certainly not Nazis or KKK. But they are targets because white supremacists might show up.

At his most recent rally, in Seattle on Aug. 13, Gibson openly denounced white supremacism and neo-Nazis. In subsequent interviews, he has taken lengths to explain that he now works to actively exclude them. There were no visible signs of white-nationalist members at the Seattle rally.

Michael K said...

At Auburn, the cops did go after the ANTIFA thugs and ripped masks off.

viator said...

Keep it up my friends and there won't be Democrat in office in many states of the Union

wildswan said...

The COEXIST bumper stickers are off their cars in the Whole Foods parking lots. Check it out. Think it through. Maintain the Constitution but don't expect them to do so.

As a prolifer, I've been in protests with leftys attacking. Honestly, you must go in a group and stay together in a group or be in real danger from them. Being safe isn't what you wear or what your weapons, it's being in a small group determined to stay together and protect each other. A pack chasing down and beating up a lone individual just suits the lefty nature - don't separate, don't face them alone. Keep your tempers, keep your voices down, appeal to the Constitution, carry the flag, the American flag, take pictures. In a lefty city, don't expect help from the police. The police take orders. Maintain the Constitution but don't expect them to do so.

tim in vermont said...

How stupid! But a guy there to cover the protests helped one of the Nazis:


He must've been a Nazi or they wouldn't have beaten him. Sunsong is very wise.

wildswan said...

Our strategy is Maintain the Constitution; their strategy is that opponents of the left are a grass patch.

tim in vermont said...

We all know that the Nazis hated commies. Modus ponens anybody who disagrees with Marxism, as these people admitted, is a Nazi.

FullMoon said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
rcocean said...

"Antifa is giving Trump and the Nazis exactly what they want."

There are NO American Nazis. They're about 1000 Neo-Nazis in the whole USA.

The left is calling anyone they disagree with a "Nazi"

Trump has been called a "Nazi"

So, if you agree with "punching nazi's" then draw the logical conclusion.

tim in vermont said...

Winning over the law and order middle to the Democrats, ARM has offered assurances.

Clyde said...

I'm not going to cry any tears when someone starts shooting the assholes.

Matthew Sablan said...

The term Nazi is kind of meaningless from the left when it has been applied to: A conservative Jewish scholar, a conservative homosexual self-proclaimed troll, a conservative black man, so-on, so-forth.

Nazi, when used, more often than not just means "person on the right I want to punch."

tim in vermont said...

They are helping Trump by demonstrating that he was right about the alt-left.

Darrell said...

Westboro Baptist

In case you don't know it, Westboro is a Democrat front group to foment hatred of Fundamentalist Christians.

Big Mike said...

There were Nazis for real in Charlottesville.

There were two sets of Nazis in Charlottesville. There was one group that called themselves Nazis and wore "uniforms" consisting of white polo shirts and khakis. That group waved flags and chanted nonsensical slogans, but were at the park legally after acquiring the necessary permits. They looked somewhat ridiculous, and would have looked sort of silly if left alone.

The second group of Nazis called themselves the "not Nazis" but applied the tactics of Adolf Hitler's Brownshirts that worked so well for him in 1930s Germany. This group wore masks because of how proud they are of what they do. They had no legal authority for their activities, and they fomented insurrection. Sunsong, adores this second group, but worries that their tactics will backfire against the Democrats.

tim in vermont said...

AntiFA, FA stands for First Amendment, outnumber the NeoNazis so overwhelmingly that they have to invent more to enliven their parties.

William said...

Among the young, it's far easier to recruit Red Guards than neo-Nazis. They're all assholes, but the press indulges the Red Guards in their rich fantasy life. Those who wish tear down a statue of Robert E. Lee are considered, by their very actions, nobler than those who wish to preserve a statue of Robert E. Lee. Where do you go to protest against the people who engage in self indulgent protests?

rhhardin said...

I'd guess the Soros strategy is to goad Trump into doing something that they can protest.

Michael K said...

"I'm not going to cry any tears when someone starts shooting the assholes."

Icepicks. Leaves a tiny hole and the damage is all inside.

rhhardin said...

Call in Sherriff Joe, and jail the police chief and the mayor, assuming there's some federal law they've violated.

Earnest Prole said...

I went down to the demonstration to get my fair share of abuse.

hombre said...

Title 18, U.S.C., Section 241 - Conspiracy Against Rights
This statute makes it unlawful for two or more persons to conspire to injure, oppress, threaten, or intimidate any person of any state, territory or district in the free exercise or enjoyment of any right or privilege secured to him/her by the Constitution or the laws of the United States, (or because of his/her having exercised the same).

It further makes it unlawful for two or more persons to go in disguise on the highway or on the premises of another with the intent to prevent or hinder his/her free exercise or enjoyment of any rights so secured.

Democrat surrogates, Antifa, BLM, student morons, are, like the DNC, Hillary and Obamessiah, above the law. What difference if their "Sinn Fein" candidates lose at the polls? Their brownshirts engage in sedition and suppression of lawful political expression in the streets with the consent of the cops while the complicit GOPe and the corrupt, emasculated DOJ do nothing. What's left?

Laslo (7:45) gets it.

Todd said...

Laslo Spatula said...

Antifa Andrew, Fighter of Fascists...

8/28/17, 8:24 AM


Laslo, you are a treasure!

Ray said...

Shocked that Sunsong would accuse a person of being a Nazi, just because they were being beaten up at Berkeley. Goes with the assumption a person beaten up by the police deserves it. Both are morally wrong.

From what I read, Antifafa was accusing lots of people of being Nazis, even reporters. Shades of the cultural revolution.

I was surprised the WP covered this, after not covering so many other incidents. Why now? My guess because of Trumps tweets on Charlottesville and the fear of being labeled fake news.

Char Char Binks said...

Those who beat Anti-1A thug DeAndre Harris in Charlottesville have been arrested, and no doubt they'll get a fair trial with as much presumption of innocence as possible considering their implicit bias.

Kevin said...

I look forward to some enterprising conservative group calling for free speech rallies every weekend at random places just to bait Antifa into showing up and attacking anyone they find.

tim in vermont said...

"Laslo, you are a treasure"

I check his blog every day. Not always updated, but when it is.

tim in vermont said...

AntiFA is completely different than the KKK on account of they where black face coverings, not white.

Bill said...

Perhaps as more journalists are attacked by these nihilists, we'll get more balanced coverage.

mockturtle said...

Laslo suggests: Pretty soon Free Speech will need Sanctuary Cities.

Sanctuary towns. We don't need no stinkin' cities!

exiledonmainstreet said...

Kevin said...
I look forward to some enterprising conservative group calling for free speech rallies every weekend at random places just to bait Antifa into showing up and attacking anyone they find."

They should include red areas, where the cops are not likely to "stand back."

My guess is that antifa will not venture far outside their safe spaces in blue cities.

The Civil Rights marchers of the '60's were willing to march in areas where they were hated. The antifas want to be seen as civil rights activists (sans the non-violent part of course) but they won't take the fight to where the Deplorables actually live. No, that would take actual courage. They prefer that small groups of Deplorables come into their spaces, so 20 people can gang up on one individual.

What bravery!

Todd said...

Bill said...

Perhaps as more journalists are attacked by these nihilists, we'll get more balanced coverage.

8/28/17, 10:45 AM


Want to bet on that? Ever hear of battered wife syndrome? The press has it hard...

walter said...

Blogger rcocean said...Maybe some lawyer can tell me why the right-wing challengers can't sue Berkeley for standing and letting them be attacked.
--
Right. It's one thing when police can't be everywhere, are too late or use excessive force.
Is there no equivalence to malpractice?
How about DOJ taking a look?

Bay Area Guy said...

It's good to shine the light of day on the masked thugs of Antifa.

They are small in numbers, true, but they are the shock troops of the Left. They cause violence -- which they think is justified, because, well, they are only violently going after Nazis, er, neo-Nazis, er, confederate statues, er, racists, er right-wingers, er Milo Yiannopolous.

Trump's mistake in Charlottesville was his failure to call out "Antifa' by name as the group causing violence on the Left.

Bay Area Guy said...

It's easy to condemn the IDEOLOGY of Nazis or neo-Nazis.

Still waiting for our Leftwing friends to condemn the ACTIONS of Antifa. Waiting......waiting.....waiting....Bueller...Bueller....

Achilles said...

"Not to defend the police, who entirely failed to protect the constitutional rights of the original rally-goers, but the timeline is very unclear in the article. The vague impression I get is that a significant number of antifa forced their way into the park, drove out the original rally-goers, and the police only stepped aside after the original rally-goers had been driven out.

Poorly written article, poor initial policing, but I'm not sure the step aside was bad at that point."

Wrong.

All of those protesters should be arrested and put in jail.

If we can't trust the police to protect our civil rights then someone else has to do it.

It is when the police fail to protect that the real fun starts.

And the city of Berkeley should be sued into bankruptcy and the public officials should have extended stays in prison.

Michael K said...

" Ever hear of battered wife syndrome? The press has it hard..."

Stockholm Syndrome. Battered Wife implies a prior relationship.

Stockholm was criminals taking hostages who fell in love with their captors.

Henry said...

I look forward to some enterprising conservative group calling for free speech rallies every weekend at random places just to bait Antifa into showing up and attacking anyone they find.

The SPLC claims that Joey Gibson's 'Patriot Prayer' is doing just that.

Patriot Prayer is an antigovernment “Patriot” group based originally in Vancouver, Washington, and now in Portland, Oregon, that has organized a series of protests in the Pacific Northwest that have all been held in places that are established centers of liberal/left politics, all with the clear intent of attempting to provoke a violent response from far-left antifascists.

Jim at said...

"Black-clad antifa members attack peaceful right-wing demonstrators in Berkeley"

And Inga cheers.

hombre said...

"If the police won't do their jobs, lets start by taking away the salary of the police chief, then start working down from there to the captains, lieutenants, and so forth."

The unionized city police are doing their jobs. They are expected to do the bidding of their Democrat masters which is to stand by while masked, club-wielding Democrat surrogates violently deny the civil rights of "the others." Accordingly, Democrat City councils will increase, not decrease, their pay.

furious_a said...

And just like THAT, everybody stopped talking about Russians and started talking about Statues.

exiledonmainstreet said...

Stockholm Syndrome. Battered Wife implies a prior relationship.

Stockholm was criminals taking hostages who fell in love with their captors.

8/28/17, 11:11 AM

It's a quibble, but I think "Battered Wife syndrome" is more apt. Those taken hostage by criminals did not spend years defending and excusing the behavior of said criminals before they were taken hostage. It's only after they were taken captive that they fell in love with their captors.

The MSM has carried water for the violent left for a long time now. They've romanticized left-wing violence and minimized or ignored the murders and damage committed by these assholes since the 1960's. How many people know of the murders committed by the Black Panthers in the '60's? How many know the details of the murder that put Mumia behind bars? Why wasn't there an outcry when Bomber Billy got an academic post?

No, the media has loved the radicals for decades. What's a little black eye every now and then?

Todd said...

Michael K said...
" Ever hear of battered wife syndrome? The press has it hard..."

Stockholm Syndrome. Battered Wife implies a prior relationship.

Stockholm was criminals taking hostages who fell in love with their captors.

8/28/17, 11:11 AM


I have to respectfully disagree. The press has had a long term relationship with the violent left and Antifa is just the most recent make-over.

Rusty said...

The police are under no obligation to risk their safety to help you.

exiledonmainstreet said...

In the meantime, the BLM/leftist site "The Root" is working hard to make sure "The Onion" becomes obsolete.

Headline: "Charles Barkley is a great example of a black white supremacist."

Howard said...

Love the right-wing victimology calling for the police state to defend them from mean old lefties. Part of any protest that attracts antifa cunts should include a security plan. Why do you small government self-starter free market entrepreneurs expect taxpayers to pay and police to risk their safety for your private protest? Provide your own damn private security, problem solved.

Believe you me, these antifa pussies deserve to be punked bigly, but the right wing protestors need to pull up their bootstraps, man up and solve this problem without help from Mommie and Daddie. Punch the bullies in the nose or be their bitch.

George Spix said...

Maybe technology can , in an attempt help unmask these anarchists. drones can now fly iris scanners good at 20 feet, how people walk and move their arms can do the rest to winnow suspect to tens, along with video to show a jury. On Thursday did you hit this man with a frozen water bottle sliced along the side so the evidence would melt away per George Soros trainingto commit murder? With identity comes responsibility, right Senator Byrd>

Matthew Sablan said...

"Love the right-wing victimology calling for the police state to defend them from mean old lefties. Part of any protest that attracts antifa cunts should include a security plan. Why do you small government self-starter free market entrepreneurs expect taxpayers to pay and police to risk their safety for your private protest?"

-- The strawman in this is almost enough to be a character in the Wizard of Oz.

Bruce Hayden said...

I do find it interesting, and illuminating, that the violent Antifa fascist thugs not do their violence thing in "safe spaces". In places where they can be assured that the police won't do their job, if that includes protecting their targets, or risking jail time or unmasking. This is the umpteenth time they have rioted in Berkeley. Charlottesville is safe for them. Ditto maybe for Portlandia. Where else though? Maybe at some others of Janet Napalitano's UC campuses. I blame Charlottesville partially on VA's term limits - Gov McAuliffe cannot run for reelection next year, and so had no real incentive to keep the peace, and did have an incentive to make his name in national Dem circles.

I agree with Laslo. Gunfire is imminent, if not inevitable. Someone is going to figure out that shooting a couple of attackers in a mob with bats and concrete cans is likely to be legally justified as self-defense. The Antifa fascist thugs are already wielding deadly weapons, under the law, which means that deadly weapons can legally be used in self-defense. I suspect though that this is more likely in a "must issue" state like VA, than in a "may, but probably won't issue" state like CA. We shall see.

Comanche Voter said...

Sometimes if you are stuck on stupid, it is good to get some help from your friends. This morning's LA Times story about the latest Berkeley riots started off with a gem of a sentence. And it only took four reporters to write it (or at least four got byline credit, while just one of them used a crayon to write the story). It described the Anti-Fa crowd as 7,000 people marching in a peaceful protest of bigotry and Trump. That's the first sentence--although it is maybe 50 words long. The story goes downhill from there.

Kevin said...

Love the right-wing victimology calling for the police state to defend them from mean old lefties.

They believe in a nation of laws. They believe in civil rights. They believe in freedom from thuggery.

They are very able to live in a society which doesn't have these things, being the half of society which owns most of the guns. I think you should praise their restraint in service to their beliefs.

It's noble work they're doing on your behalf.

Howard said...

Real Americans believe self defense is our first duty. You are right in one respect, the Nazi white power trumpsters are indeed strawmen scarecrows singing "if I only had a brain"

Howard said...

Being antifa's bitch protest after protest is the opposite of noble. Your love of martyrdom is showing... something in common with ISIS, OBL and the PLO. Good company, that.

Howard said...

Why are you cucks so quick to reach for hypothetical guns as security blankets?

hombre said...

Howard: "Love the right-wing victimology calling for the police state to defend them from mean old lefties. Part of any protest that attracts antifa cunts should include a security plan."

A request for the police to do their jobs might be an appropriate precursor to the guns coming out. Or not.

Sigivald said...

Nonsense!

I am assured, repeatedly, on Facebook, that Antifa are all good guys, and anyone in black with a mask and causing problems is a Totally Different Black Bloc Protestor, because reasons.

They thus can't be "real" Antifa, because they're definitionally Good Guys Because Anti Fascist, thus the name.

(I wish I was making this up, but that's basically the logic presented.)

(PS. Howard? When you call anyone "cuck", you beclown yourself. Or reveal you have a really weird sexual obsession. Or both.)

exiledonmainstreet said...

"Why do you small government self-starter free market entrepreneurs expect taxpayers to pay and police to risk their safety for your private protest?"

This is so idiotic, it's shooting fish in a barrel to reply to it (I hope Howie the snowflake isn't triggered by my violent alt-right imagery), but here goes:

Right-wingers recognize police protection as a legitimate function of government. We pay for their services also through taxes and so have as much right to be protected by them as any left-wing weenie does.

If law enforcement protects only some and not others based on ideology, we are no longer a nation of laws And if a majority of conservatives come to believe laws will not be applied fairly - well, Howie, as Kevin notes, if you had the sense God gave a goose, you would not want that day to come.

exiledonmainstreet said...

The cuck calls others cucks.

Sorry, Howie, you can't turn right-wing insults back on us, because they make no sense coming from you. I know you don't know what the term even means and use it because you Leftists are, intellectually and emotionally, about 8 years old.

"I know you are but what am I?" Jeez, the left used to have some smart people on their side. WTF happened?

Howard said...

Use of cuck, snowflake, triggered is just a silly way to toss back the silly hyperbole that spews from the rightist.

Just like throwing back the hysterical calls for government help from folks who think government is the problem.

From the responses, "you people" don't like what you see in the mirror.

Howard said...

Wednesday, I love how easy you are triggered into hitting the baited lure. Unfortunately, you are not a keeper... more like a carp.

Sam L. said...

That hed is un-Leftist. Somebody gonna be fired for that!

exiledonmainstreet said...

So, Howard, you are aware that you are a stupid and insignificant little worm that nobody should be responding to? Nobody should treat you like an adult who has serious points to make because you're just a snot-nosed eunuch who likes spreading his poop on the walls?

Well, OK, I guess you're right.

Howard said...

Nice self portrait, Wednesday.

Michael K said...

I think Howard drew the DNC seminar short straw today.

Are you filling in for Inga, KittyM and Ritmo today, Howard ?

Annie C said...

Before anyone can do anything about Antifa, they are going to have to settle on the pronunciation.

FullMoon said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Bruce Hayden said...

"Before anyone can do anything about Antifa, they are going to have to settle on the pronunciation"

Just call them violent left wing fascist thugs. That's what they are - the Democrats' brown shirts.

Unknown said...

I think Howard just admitted that Conservatives should just massacre all the anti-fa's in self defense. Bring some flame throwers at the next event.

Hey, we can't expect the police to do it, right? So let's just exterminate the whole protesters after they attack. They are all commies anyway; so it's defending the nation from a commie invasion. And if no living antifa member is left... well, the cops allowed them to attack, so no one can complain if a bunch of violent communist agitators using deadly force are terminated.

That's what you are supporting right, Howard? The conservatives defending themselves... lethally?

--Vance

Todd said...

Howard: "Love the right-wing victimology calling for the police state to defend them from mean old lefties.

As others have noted, there is a whole pile of stupid balled up in so few words.

The right is not asking the police to protect them from the antifa, they are asking the police to protect the antifa from them. It is a shame you don't understand that though that does explain much. The right not only tolerates guns, they not only like them, a very many of them like guns very, very much. This means that many on the right take gun ownership very seriously. They practice, they use them in recreation, they have much ammo. If it becomes common knowledge that the police will not get a handle on thugs of any stripe, the people will. As others have noted, the left/antifa have been lucky so far in that most of their "riots" have been in "safe spaces". That luck will run out. They will think they can escalate and attack with gun fire those that exercised self-defense with guns and then bodies will really start to pile up. Most antifa like "playing" at thug live when they are safe from real retribution or consequences. That will change.

Big Mike said...

@Todd, I hope the "right wing" free speech advocates continue to practice Martin Luther King-like non-violence. I'm perfectly certain that the alliance of Dumbocrats with eGOP plans to take drastic action against anyone who fights back with firearms or even bladed weapons.

But, yeah, I spent yesterday morning at the range.

Todd said...

@Big Mike, I hope so too but a few will get tired of getting pelted with soda cans, hit with sticks and bike locks while the police idly watch, and will wind up defending themselves. That will start things as the antifa will over-react, scream WAR, and then shoot someone in response to "hate speech". That will be what bursts the damn.

mockturtle said...

I happen to know [don't ask] that at least some on the left are amassing weapons, especially AR-15 and similar types of rifles. So we on the right aren't going to be totally unopposed in the firearms department. The irony is that many of these people were strong critics of the Second Amendment and the NRA. Maybe they believe 'Nazis' just need to be killed.

Night Owl said...

Now that the police have decided it's safer for them if they just step aside -- thanks in large measure to BLM tactics of the past few years-- does the left really think it is a winning strategy to goad the right-wing to violence? Once the right starts using their second amendment right to protect their first amendment right, do left-wingers think it will be so easy to contain the violence so that it doesn't reach them? Better question is: Do they think at all?

exiledonmainstreet said...

The irony is that many of these people were strong critics of the Second Amendment and the NRA. Maybe they believe 'Nazis' just need to be killed.

8/28/17, 1:15 PM

They don't want deplorables to have guns. It's OK when they do, because whatever they do is OK.

Michael K said...

"I happen to know [don't ask] that at least some on the left are amassing weapons, especially AR-15 and similar types of rifles."

They are calling these "John Brown Clubs."

There is even one in Phoenix.

Gahrie said...

The SCLC is an antigovernment "civil rights" group based originally in Birmingham, Alabama and now in places across the South, that has organized a series of protests in the South that have all been held in places that are established centers of liberal/left politics, all with the clear intent of attempting to provoke a violent response from racist Democrats.

tim in vermont said...

Admit it, we need idiots like Howard to kick around as much as Anti1A needs those pathetic Nazis. Except we would be happy to buy Howard a beer after, since we are not into violence or defending violence.

Gahrie said...


They are calling these "John Brown Clubs."


Yeah that's the ticket, name your organization after a murderous madman that was hung as a traitor.

Michael Fitzgerald said...

the Berkeley police chief, Andrew Greenwood, offered a lame defense: “No need for a confrontation over a grass patch.”- Now we know the ground rules. Anything goes in No Man's Land.

The problem with law enforcement ignoring its coda, To Protect and To Serve, is that people will have to protect themselves. It is said that the police act to protect criminals from vigilante retribution. This hypothesis is going to be put to the test in the coming years.

Angel-Dyne said...

HoodlumDoodlum: Our elites are so fucking stupid they may actually not understand what they're letting happen here.

100% true, for most of 'em. No doubt some of the big funders and big organizers (say, Soros) really are just resentment-driven sociopaths who know exactly what they're doing, and how satisfyingly destructive it's all going to be. Their cause is hearted. But for the most part our miserably unworthy "elites" probably do believe their own bullshit, really do believe that the gross, transparent propaganda put out by their Party organs is accurate news.

On the plus side, the times have given me a much deeper perspective on history. Reading history when one is young, in a relatively stable place and time, is an exercise in asking, over and over again, "How the hell did things come to such a pass? How could those leaders not see what was so fucking obvious, not only in the hindsight of later generations, but also to a goodly number of their contemporaries?" Now, reading history, I think "Oh, I see, that's how". (Followed by, "Well, alrighty then".)

There have to be others like me who are starting to look at lampposts.

Well, not *starting* to, no.

walter said...

"we would be happy to buy Howard a beer after"
Eh..speak for yourself ;)

mockturtle said...

Vigilantism in many small Mexican towns was working well against the drug cartels until the government forced them to stop, telling them that they, the government, would protect them. Which, of course, they didn't [from incompetence or collusion with the cartels] and the towns suffered. At some point vigilantism will be our only form of protection.

Angel-Dyne said...

Todd: As others have noted, there is a whole pile of stupid balled up in so few words.

I would think that a Howard comment *not* being a whole pile of stupid would be the phenomenon requiring commentary.

As it stands, I don't understand why he's not just left alone to play with his shit and smear it all over himself and his crib as he pleases. Installing a killfile plugin or using "collapse comments" shuts the nursery door nicely.

Robert Cook said...

A good column by Chris Hedges today at Truthdig on this subject.

walter said...

Cook,
That article is replete with false equivalencies.
Who's committing the violence?
Who's trying to silence others?

tim in vermont said...

Right, Cookie, conservatives who simply reject the leadership of Republicans, like Cantor or Ryan, on the grounds that they are in politics for the membership in the elite class and have either forgotten or wish to forget the Republican base,the alt-right, simply "lust" for violence.

walter said...

They don't "mirror", they project.

Bay Area Guy said...

There's an historical parallel in the 60s.

Lotta liberal college kids didn't want to fight in Vietnam, so they marched and protested the War. Fair game.

A small cadres of sophisticated leftists created organizations such as "Students for a Democratic Society" (SDS) who organized protests, and probably accepted funds from unsavory sources. Fair game, but coming close to the edge.

Then, a real small cadre of militant leftists started shooting cops, bombing stuff, and
blowing up a Greenwich Village town-house/bomb-making factory.

These were The Weathermen. They were terrible. They were Leftists. They hated America. And they killed people.

To my knowledge, Antifa hasn't killed anyone yet, but they have assaulted and battered several people. If they keep it up, they will enter Weatherman territory.

Robert Cook said...

Hedges is not talking about the specifics of today's events, but about the social conditions that drive the disenfranchised into extremist groups of any type and of every political viewpoint.

tim in vermont said...

The equivalence is between a few hundred guys off their meds in a country of 300 million +, and a Democrat Party that can't bring themselves to admit that they are defending and protecting a much larger and more violent group.

tim in vermont said...

Robert Cook said...
Hedges is not talking about the specifics of today's events, but about the social conditions that drive the disenfranchised into extremist groups of any type and of every political viewpoint.


Actual violence, assassination attempts, bringing weaponry to peaceful demonstrations is coming from the left right now.

walter said...

He should be able to discern the pattern from events that have been happening for many months. He feels he can read minds about a "lust for violence" behind conservative ideals while actual violence has been playing out repeatedly on the Left.
I'm not surprised he makes no mention of Scalise.

tim in vermont said...

Those lefties, when they appear in media look pretty well fed, and not all that "disenfranchised" they want power over others and are willing to use violence to get it, full stop.

Look at them. Trust fund is the first thought that comes to mind.

The neo-Nazis? Mental derangement comes to mind. They appear pretty well fed.

Ultimately they are all just bored.

exiledonmainstreet said...



Blogger Robert Cook said...
Hedges is not talking about the specifics of today's events, but about the social conditions that drive the disenfranchised into extremist groups of any type and of every political viewpoint."

"Disenfranchised?" That's a hoot. Most of these antifas are middle class, pampered, white college kids who have been brainwashed by people like you into believing that America is the evilest, most racist place on earth.

They're angry ingrates with daddy issues or mommy issues who latch on to leftism as an ersatz religion.

Left-wing revolutionaries very rarely come from the ranks of the poor. Lenin, Trotsky, Che, Castro - all were from comfortable, bourgeois backgrounds. Bomber Billy Ayres used his father's wealth and connections to stay out of prison. Is Tim Kaine's Antifa son "disenfranchised?"

The genuinely poor people involved in these organizations are being used as tools by the well-to-do white brats who form the bulk of antifa and Occupy.


exiledonmainstreet said...

"These were The Weathermen. They were terrible. They were Leftists. They hated America. And they killed people. "

And they were mainly rich white kids.

Caligula said...

"No need for a confrontation over a grass patch."

Of course, it's not just a "grass patch" they're asked to defend, but the right to peaceably assemble.

If someone commits a murder for money but then finds only $5. in the victim's wallet, would this Police Chief then declare there's no need to do anything about that because, "There's no need for a confrontation over five dollars"?

mockturtle said...

Left-wing revolutionaries very rarely come from the ranks of the poor. Lenin, Trotsky, Che, Castro - all were from comfortable, bourgeois backgrounds. Bomber Billy Ayres used his father's wealth and connections to stay out of prison. Is Tim Kaine's Antifa son "disenfranchised?"

This is true of Al Qaeda leaders, too.

Mac McConnell said...

If Trump really was Hitler would Chuck Todd or any of the media be safe even sitting in their own living rooms? How about the Hollywood left? How about the academic left?

Problem is that the leftist media is normalizing political violence with Antifa support and the Democrats own it. They will not like the end results. Anyone else old enough to remember when the Hard Hats turned on the "protesting" hippies?

tim in vermont said...

Funny too that Cookie brought up provocateurs, the guy who organized Charlottesville was an occupy member who wrote of his admiration of provocateurs on his blog and only became a "white supremacist" in January of this year after the 'resistance' to Trump was declared.

Seems like we should be hearing stuff, nee details, etc, from the investigation there, but nothing.

PaoloP said...

Dear American Democrats,
you have unleashed a very bad genie. If you're lucky, it will take at least a decade to appease it - a decade of violence and terrorism.

Bay Area Guy said...


Robert Cook's cite to the Hedges article is helpful in 2 respects:

First, Hedges to his credit, does get the dynamics basically right in Germany's Weimar Republic:

Germany’s Nazi stormtroopers had their counterparts in that nation’s communist Alliance of Red Front Fighters.

This is a key point. Hitler did not rise to power in a vacuum. It was more like the Crips (Hitler and the Nazis) fighting the Bloods (German Communists, funded by Stalin). The Crips won -- and then they terrorized Europe, and set the stage for its epic fight against Communist Russia. (See Operation Barbarosa, June 1941).


Hedges also properly notes that the last remnants of Nazi sympathizers in the USA (500 or so scattered jobless white guys with beer bellies and tatoos) have NO position of power or influence. They are, in essence, marginalized losers clinging to delusions.

The white racists and neo-Nazis may be unsavory, but they too are victims. They too lost jobs and often live in poverty in deindustrialized wastelands. They too often are plagued by debt, foreclosures, bank repossessions and inability to repay student loans. They too often suffer from evictions, opioid addictions, domestic violence and despair. They too sometimes face bankruptcy because of medical bills. They too have seen social services gutted, public education degraded and privatized and the infrastructure around them decay. They too often suffer from police abuse and mass incarceration. They too are often in despair and suffer from hopelessness. And they too have the right to free speech, however repugnant their views.

So, at its nucleus, you have 2 groups: small group of losers with bad ideology marching v a small group of AntiFa thugs attacking.

That's the truth, Ruth.

walter said...

"The conflict will not end until the followers of the alt-right and the anti-capitalist left are given a living wage and a voice in how we are governed."

Hedges basically says this is all just a result of capitalism.

buwaya said...

"Robert Cook's cite to the Hedges article"

The Hedges article is not wrong, generally speaking.
But it itself lacks nuance. The mechanics of the street fighting it gets right, but the larger question is quite wrong. It is of course a matter of world view and education of the commenter of the sort that has been thrashed out here many times.

The bigger thing it gets wrong is the assumption that sweet reason matters at all, or that it ever has or ever can. Its all about power. The reasonable and thoughtful are sheep and always will be. They can ever only be the herded, not the herders.

buwaya said...

"Hedges basically says this is all just a result of capitalism."

Everything is a result of capitalism, if you permit only a certain POV in your head.
If all you have is a hammer everything looks like a nail.

Bay Area Guy said...

Yes, to be clear, the remaining bulk of the Hedges article is a mishmash of unsubstantiated charges and left-wing propaganda.

But he did get 2 things right - broken clock syndrome, probably.

antiphone said...

Those lefties, when they appear in media look pretty well fed, and not all that "disenfranchised" they want power over others and are willing to use violence to get it, full stop.

Look at them. Trust fund is the first thought that comes to mind.

The neo-Nazis? Mental derangement comes to mind. They appear pretty well fed.

Ultimately they are all just bored.


Ideology is a dumpster big enough to feed the world.

rcocean said...

The Left has ALWAYS been violent, because they believe the ends justify the means.

Starting with the Assassin of McKinley around 1900, almost every assassin (failed or successful) of a President or Presidential candidate has been a leftist.

Looking at mass, lower level, violence. Someone upthread mentioned the Weatherman. At times the Left has been peaceful because they knew they'd get their heads beaten in (aka in the 50s and early 60s) or at other times they've been peaceful because they thought the Government was on their side. But make no mistake, if they feel things aren't going their way, they will be violent.

rcocean said...

In you look at Berkeley today, and remember the free speech protests of the 60s you may be puzzled. But it was only a matter of circumstance. To the left "Free Speech" is only a tool. When out of the power, Lenin and the Bolsheviks were the greatest "Free speech" advocates. Once in power, they shut it down -hard. Another Leftist once said "They don't need free speech in the USSR, they have socialism".

Today the Leftists rule Berkeley, SF Bay area and almost all of California. They don't need "free speech" anymore.

mockturtle said...

Rcocean, I think the left tends to have more education than intelligence, more passion than wisdom and an Skinner Box view of human beings.

Michael K said...

"Most of these antifas are middle class, "

A few are porn actresses like the one who got whopped at Berkeley a couple of weeks ago.

mockturtle said...

There are few revolutions that, while spouting freedom and equality, don't end up totalitarian.

Michael K said...

What gets rewarded, you get more of.

Right now, the left is getting rewards from leftist cities like Berkeley and Charlottesville.

Baltimore and St Louis are pretty much cesspools and Chicago is busy killing itself.

Most big cities lean left because that's where leftists congregate. The well off like opera and symphonies, The poor like welfare.

Eventually the well off are going to have to start retreating from public space like they do in New York City.

Chicago is definitely going that way. I'm not sure it will work but that is the only option.

It will be interesting to see how far this goes before people start getting killed besides the gangbangers.

There will more like Kate Steinle.

Scientific Socialist said...

"...violence began to flare...A pepper-spray wielding Trump supporter was smacked to the ground with homemade shields..." Just like the killer vans in Barcelona and Nice or the 459 people in Chicago killed by gun violence in 2017.

Fernandinande said...

Robert Cook said...
A good column by Chris Hedges today at Truthdig on this subject.


"How ‘Antifa’ Mirrors the ‘Alt-Right’"

There's no mirroring because "mirror" doesn't mean "physically attack".

Above the article it says:
"Editor’s note: A Berkeley, Calif., rally organized by a right-wing group turned violent Sunday after arrival of a group that carried an anarchist banner."

That's a damned dishonest way of saying "a group that carried an anarchist banner attacked a rally organized by a right-wing group."

"truthdig.com", yeah, sure.

Todd Roberson said...

@tim in Vermont

That's not modus ponens. Modus ponens is P implies Q ... And P ... Therefore Q. You're falling into the logical fallacy that a statement and its converse are logically equivalent. A statement is logically equivalent to its contrapositive. P implies Q, thus not Q implies not P. Modus tollens.

rcocean said...

"There are few revolutions that, while spouting freedom and equality, don't end up totalitarian."

Agree. While the followers may be motivated by "freedom and equality" the leaders of "the Revolution" usually aren't.

wbfjrr2 said...

Is Sessions asleep or just another timid bureaucrat? In either case he should be fired asap. He's totally useless at best, and a tool of Trump's enemies at worst (e.g. Recusing himself over nothing, thus setting off the RUSSIA! Witch hunt).

Bay Area Guy said...

Sessions should be starting a RICO investigation into Antifa for conspiracy to violate First Amendment Rights through violence and threats of violence.

hombre said...

Cook: "Hedges is not talking about the specifics of today's events, but about the social conditions that drive the disenfranchised into extremist groups of any type and of every political viewpoint."

Hedges is an anti-Christian Commie who illustrates the power of the inanimate over the plodding leftist mind. "Social conditions drive ...." "Statues terrorize ...." "Freedom of speech triggers ...." "Guns murder...." Etc.

Social conditions during the Great Depressions "drove" my father to leave the farm at 15, support his mother and work three jobs at once in order to get his high school and college educations. There was no choice involved. Lucky for him those conditions didn't "drive" him to a life of crime or sedition.

Let's worship the language of irresponsibility with Hedges and Cook.

walter said...

https://www.truthdig.com/author/chris_hedges/#author-bio
"Hedges holds a B.A. in English literature from Colgate University and a Master of Divinity degree from Harvard University. He spent a year studying classics at Harvard as a Nieman Fellow. He was awarded an honorary doctorate from Starr King School for the Ministry in Berkeley, Calif. In 2014 he was ordained as a minister for social witness at the Second Presbyterian Church in Elizabeth, N.J. The theologian James Cone, the father of Black Liberation Theology, preached the sermon along with Cornel West."

hombre said...

wbfjrr2: "Is Sessions asleep or just another timid bureaucrat? In either case he should be fired asap. He's totally useless at best, and a tool of Trump's enemies at worst."

The appointment of Beltway Jeff as AG will be remembered as the beginning of the end of the effectiveness of Trump's Administration. Keeping him in place is part of the motivation for Sen. Grassley and other GOPe saboteurs to move to prevent Trump from making recess appointments.

Michael K said...

Blogger Bay Area Guy said...
Sessions should be starting a RICO investigation into Antifa for conspiracy to violate First Amendment Rights through violence and threats of violence.


Discovery would be very interesting. I don't know why he doesn't do it.

tim in vermont said...

@Todd Robinson, ever hear of sarcasm?

mockturtle said...

Has Sessions done anything as AG? How I wish Trump had named Cruz!

exiledonmainstreet said...

mockturtle said...
Rcocean, I think the left tends to have more education than intelligence, more passion than wisdom and an Skinner Box view of human beings.

8/28/17, 3:58 PM

And very little knowledge of history. Ritmo basically admitted he had no idea who Marat was. He doesn't waste time on such "arcane" knowledge - like knowing the history of the Reign of Terror.

That explains a great deal. "Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it."

mockturtle said...

Yes, exiled. Perhaps I should have said 'credentials' instead of 'education'. Education is not limited to academic institutions, either.

The French Revolution is truly one of the scariest eras in history. Mainly because it was spawned by philosophical ideals but turned civilized, educated people into murderous thugs.

Fernandinande said...

hombre said...
Hedges is an anti-Christian


Oops.

"Social conditions drive ...." "Statues terrorize ...." "Freedom of speech triggers ...." "Guns murder...."
Let's worship the language of irresponsibility with Hedges and Cook.


None of your quoted phrases appear in that article - what was that about the "language of irresponsibility"?

Bay Area Guy said...

And the chaos and disorder caused by the French Revolution gave rise to Napoleon and endless war in Europe. A strongman almost always arises from the ashes of an ill-conceived revolution.

Todd Roberson said...

@ Tim in Vermont

My problem wasn't with the sarcasm - it was with the incorrect usage of the term "modus ponens". What you were outlining logically - if correct - would logically be considered a "biconditional", the logical counterpart of a "definition" in prose.

Sorry ... I'm a university math teacher.

mockturtle said...

And the chaos and disorder caused by the French Revolution gave rise to Napoleon and endless war in Europe. A strongman almost always arises from the ashes of an ill-conceived revolution.

Exactly so. Hitler knew what he was doing when he fomented chaos.

tim in vermont said...

it was with the incorrect usage of the term "modus ponens".

Well, it was sarcasm to use it deliberately incorrectly. I think that modus ponens is one of those concepts that you don't need a degree in math or philosophy to understand so I threw it in there for comic effect. On account of so many of these liberals seem to think they are so smart when they make such obvious logical errors.

Larvell said...

It's a one-day WaPo headline in the Morning Mix section. You know, just like it would have been if these guys had been wearing red MAGA hats. "Hey, there were only 100 of them, everyone else was peaceful. Now back to the hurricane ..."

Todd said...

Angel-Dyne said...

As it stands, I don't understand why he's not just left alone to play with his shit and smear it all over himself and his crib as he pleases. Installing a killfile plugin or using "collapse comments" shuts the nursery door nicely.

8/28/17, 1:58 PM


I do have the killfile add-on and use it extensively to block the children so that I can focus on the adults, he being but one on the list but that particular comment was quoted by another so I saw it. I just could not let such idiocy stand unanswered. I guess you could say I fell for the easy bait...

tim in vermont said...

It’s very obvious what next year will be like. The worst footage from protest demonstrations will be put on display in campaign advertising and all the claims that Democratic pundits and authors have made claiming America is festooned with 64 million gas-chamber-murdering Nazis. Everyone who voted for Donald Trump is a Nazi. They’re all Nazis. Every fucking last one of them is a motherfucking Nazi.

This is how I see it coming. AntiFa assures the Democrats there won't be a slippery slope on account of they have never "no platformed" a Democrat. Moderates and Republicans take little comfort. But the law and order types ARM yammers about will be lining up to vote Democrat!

RonF said...

"... and Chicago is busy killing itself."

Only if you live in about 6 of the 77 neighborhoods; neighborhoods that no one who doesn't have to enters. Otherwise you can just read about it in the newspaper or hear about it on radio/TV and it doesn't really affect your life.

That won't last.

funsize said...

is the "grass patch" comment a reference to the clashes over People's Park in the 80s?