Revulsion, fear, and rage are understandable. But one thing is clear. The people preventing Republicans from safely assembling on the streets of Portland may consider themselves fierce opponents of the authoritarianism growing on the American right. In truth, however, they are its unlikeliest allies.
August 17, 2017
"Antifa’s activists say they’re battling burgeoning authoritarianism on the American right. Are they fueling it instead?"
"The Rise of the Violent Left" by Peter Beinart in The Atlantic. Conclusion paragraph:
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Somebody just lost their leftie city privileges.
Leftwing fascism and leftwing progressive totalitarianism is just as bad, if not worse than some stupid white nationalist.
The left want to stomp out free speech.
the main difference between the antifa of today and the KKL of yesteryear is that one wests black face masks and the other wore white hoods. Interesting to note that in both cases the groups are (were) enabled by Democrat politicians in states where Democrats controlled the entire political structure.
KKK. Typo
Anonymous has targeted 11 Confederate monuments to tear down tomorrow 8/18. Many are in small rural southern towns. This is a powder keg waiting for a match. The Antifa are itching to be just that.
You need to distinguish between authoritarianism and totalitarianism.*
I do not know that the Republicans, of whatever stripe, are either, but the current trend among the Democrats is for totalitarianism.
*Authoritarian governments do not care what you think as long as you do not come out and demonstrate against them.
Totalitarians insist that you demonstrate for them or you will be punished.
I mean, "unlikely" unless you remember the streets of Weimar Germany were filled with Communist and National Socialist thugs and lowlifes, brawling, infiltrating each others rallies and meetings to spark violence, etc.
Leftwing fascism and leftwing progressive totalitarianism is just as bad, if not worse than some stupid white nationalist.
For me it's worse because I'm 99.9% certain no one in the neighbourhoods I frequent or the communities I move in is going around promoting white supremacy. Antifa goons, on the other hand, could well be my neighbours (they go around with masks, like KKK men, so you cannot tell).
Re: Big Mike:
the main difference between the antifa of today and the KKL of yesteryear is that one wests black face masks and the other wore white hoods. Interesting to note that in both cases the groups are (were) enabled by Democrat politicians in states where Democrats controlled the entire political structure.
In fairness, a lot of places where the KKK were active also have strict anti-mask laws to suppress that kind of lawlessness. Those laws just aren't being enforced rigorously against Antifa.
It's against the law in California for example, to wear the mask while committing public offenses (without doing the research, I assume that includes offenses like battery, vandalism, and arson), but the authorities haven't done anything to stamp out Antifa from Berkeley.
I'll say it again here. The Antifa are not good guys solely because, this time, their violence landed on people we don't like.
Remember: Antifa are not like WWII vets, despite what the memedia will tell you. They, as you see above, beat reporters. They shut down non-Nazi speech they don't like, including a Jewish scholar, a female political firebrand and a homosexual troll. They used violence to stop a parade because of one float they did not like. They threw explosives at unarmed people and called for murdering cops.
I don't understand why good people on the left would want to hitch their train to the antifa protesters. Simply being willing to use violence against equally unsavory sorts isn't enough to make someone the default good guy.
I believe many southern states have anti-mask ordinances, originally aimed at the KKK. If Antifa attacks statues in small towns tomorrow, I'm hoping the local police will have enough backup from neighboring counties to forcibly unmask, disarm, and identify them. Maybe some of them will be fired from their jobs at Libertarian hotdog stands and other fine businesses.
The leader and organizer of the "unite the Right" rally is a former Obama supporter.
See this Breitbart report and note that it sources the SPLC for the info that Kessler was an Obama supporter and "Occupy" guy.
This guy is either a turncoat, a false flag operation or a would-be Hitler looking for an army.
It says something about the left they can't just oppose left wing political violence, they have to frame it as counterproductive.
It's a good piece, and I also recommend his shorter article here.
Some excerpts:
As I argued in my essay, some of their tactics are genuinely troubling. They’re troubling tactically because conservatives use antifa’s violence to justify—or at least distract from—the violence of white supremacists, as Trump did in his press conference. They’re troubling strategically because they allow white supremacists to depict themselves as victims being denied the right to freely assemble. And they’re troubling morally because antifa activists really do infringe upon that right. By using violence, they reject the moral legacy of the civil-rights movement’s fight against white supremacy. And by seeking to deny racists the ability to assemble, they reject the moral legacy of the ACLU, which in 1977 went to the Supreme Court to defend the right of neo-Nazis to march through Skokie, Illinois.
And:
But for all of antifa’s supposed anti-authoritarianism, there’s something fundamentally authoritarian about its claim that its activists—who no one elected—can decide whose views are too odious to be publicly expressed. That kind of undemocratic, illegitimate power corrupts.
Then he goes off the rails, mumbling about how it still doesn't compare to the alt-right because anarchy isn't a big deal.
Just remove the word "unlikeliest" from that bolded last sentence.
Authoritarianism is OK on the left, because they seem themselves as the benevolent authoritarians. When will a truly liberal party ever come about.
I don't see any right wing groups tearing down MLK statues. Would the police stand down if they tried?
When you spend thirty years legally discriminating against White men (Affirmative Action), telling White men they are evil and responsible for all the world's ills, and then then telling them to shut up, their opinions don't matter.....you get White identity politics...which of course is labeled White supremacy.
Re: Michael K:
This guy is either a turncoat, a false flag operation or a would-be Hitler looking for an army.
It's not much of a false flag, though, since all those people did show up. More like a sting than "false flag."
Tiger Tiger Burning Bright
I fear there is going to be a lot of blood shed before this is over. Don't know who will win, but it is not going to be pretty. Some Republicans that are providing cover for the left may well rue the day for their support. My wife and I are about ready not to vote Republican again, which means not voting most likely. Our Senator, Cory Gardner, is a Republican in name only.
It says something about the left they can't just oppose left wing political violence, they have to frame it as counterproductive.
Good point. I was thinking that Beinart is at least initiating the kind of discussion I'd like to see more of from the left, but it is true that his objections are pragmatic, not moral.
The Romance of the Street-Fighting Man.
Everywhere I hear the sound of marching, charging feet, boy
'Cause summer's here and the time is right for fighting in the street, boy
Well what can a poor boy do
Except to sing for a rock 'n' roll band
'Cause in sleepy London town
There's just no place for a street fighting man
No
I am Laslo.
Big Mike
Excellent point.
KKK wore white masks, Antifa fascists wear black masks.
From Wiki:
On the writing, Jagger said in a 1995 interview with Jann Wenner in Rolling Stone,
Yeah, it was a direct inspiration, because by contrast, London was very quiet...It was a very strange time in France. But not only in France but also in America, because of the Vietnam War and these endless disruptions ... I thought it was a very good thing at the time. There was all this violence going on. I mean, they almost toppled the government in France; de Gaulle went into this complete funk, as he had in the past, and he went and sort of locked himself in his house in the country. And so the government was almost inactive. And the French riot police were amazing.[8]
"I thought it was a very good thing at the time"
Again: The Romance of the Street-Fighting Man.
I am Laslo.
You need a "from making shit up, department" tag.
What authoritarianism is coming from the right, and what is it that needs opposing? Is enforcing a right to free speech considered authoritarian?
Jagger vs Lennon: London's riots of 1968 provided the backdrop to a rock'n'roll battle royale
""That's what it should have been! That's our way out. Cause we love it! And it's our excuse, see? We can't be guerillas. We're so violent, we're violently frustrated. We haven't got enough violence, we've no opportunity..."
I am laslo.
If there's any authoritarianism burgeoning, it burgeons from the left. But fish don't know they're wet.
"I don't understand why good people on the left would want to hitch their train to the antifa protesters."
Even more difficult to understand are GOPe pols like Romney and Rubio (Rubio! Who knows something about what the Commies have wrought in Cuba) condemning Trump's remarks and minimizing the Antifa violence because they are still butt-hurt over the election. The GOPe is so anxious to avoid being called racists that they have provided cover for people who will call them racist no matter much how they grovel.
They are not "unlikely" allies. The left is one big baiting operation. Identity politics stirs up un-PC identity claims, which can then be used to conjure up images of a horrible enemy and mobilize troops. The "nazis" are useful idiots, carefully cultivated in lefty discourse of the "alt-right," as prelude to tarring the right as "alt" and therefore beyond the pale. Beinert may dislike some of the tactics, but his buddies want to win.
Also, considering Nazi is being chucked around with wild abandon; at what point are bigots and racists actually Nazis? Is being a white supremacist, or ascribing to such views, by definition, make one a Nazi?
The left is continuously molding and changing the language and word definitions to suit their message - they don't like it when the right starts doing the same (as noted by the whining about the phrase 'alt-left'). It seems like the right (hah, what does that even mean, anymore) call things what they are, but the left distorts things to the point that it can mean what they want at any given time.
Beinart doesn't consider the obvious: Antifa _claims_ to be battling authoritarianism. Judging by their actual targets, though, they are just lying. They are battling anyone who disagrees with them. By force. Like authoritarians.
"authoritarianism"....antifa needs to look in the mirror.
"Even more difficult to understand are GOPe pols like Romney and Rubio (Rubio! Who knows something about what the Commies have wrought in Cuba) condemning Trump's remarks and minimizing the Antifa violence because they are still butt-hurt over the election."
-- I was disappointed, especially in Romney. Doesn't he remember when everyone called HIM a Nazi?
Trump has been outed as a blonde, blue eyed Nordic who is not ashamed of his identity. And that is the issue.
Trump, that evil genius. He must be playing three-dimmensional chess.
With a Civil War chess set!
Colin Durham observes: "authoritarianism"....antifa needs to look in the mirror.
Indeed.
Here's a tidbit about those brave freedom fighters who popped up at the rally:
"Another far-left group at Charlottesville last weekend: the Workers World Party, a group of Marxist-Leninist revolutionaries who have declared their support for Kim Jong Un's murderous dictatorship in North Korea. Workers World's publication has consistently published propaganda-like screeds supporting Venezuela's murderous regime.
The communist group "sent many of its members to Charlottesville, Va., to beat back the Nazis and Klan who marched there," according to a post recapping the group's participation in the weekend's violence."
Note that this pack of hyenas isn't even bothering with the claptrap you normally hear from leftists: Yes, the USSR and NK and Venezuela didn't turn out very well, but that wasn't "true" communism/socialism. The next time, with the right people in charge, it will all work out beautifully and lollipops will rain from the heavens.
Nope, these thugs say "Kim and Maduro got it right. We really do want to enslave and impoverish people and murder and torture our enemies. That is indeed the REAL Communism. And we want it here."
I don't understand why good people on the left would want to hitch their train to the antifa protesters.
Agreed! I assume some of it is the same reaction that you see here when the right is asked to denounce the Klan (or other dipshit social clubs). There is also resistance to the attempt to de-legitimize peaceful protest by lumping everyone together with the violent fools.
My wife and I are about ready not to vote Republican again, which means not voting most likely.
I will not vote for any Republican unless the candidate is a supporter of Trump or is endorsed by Trump. And I will not vote for a Democrat. If there are no alternatives – ANY alternative will do(Green Party, Socialist Party, Libertarian Party, etc.), I will not vote for anyone for that particular race.
In the past I’ve donated to the Republican Party, not because I particularly liked the GOP but because the GOP was an alternative to the Lefty candidates. That ended when the eGOP revealed the GOP’s true nature. I now know that my donations were wasted.
The motivations of the protesters.
There's tribalism, virtue-signalling, immaturity, get-off-my-lawnism, general envy, envy of the civil-rights battles of the past, ignorant hate, traditionalism, just general stupidity, party mentality, communism, identity politics, violent backlash, way too much time and money on hands...
I don't see a philosophy I can join among these folks.
In light of yesterday's "Turn, Turn, Turn" post I thought Althouse would add the "Street-Fighting Man" video to this.
So I guess I'll do it.
Street Fighting Man. The Rolling Stones Live 1969 (Full Song)
This version was from just prior to Altamont.
Altamont, from Wiki:
A woman who called in to the program revealed that she'd seen at least five fist fights from her vantage point near the stage and that the Angels were involved in all of them. She also described a general uncaring attitude toward people who clearly needed help; a girl who was dragged across the stage by her hair, another who was on a bad acid trip and bystanders kicked and walked on her. She said she felt having the Angels as "security" was an irresponsible move because "we were all in terror of them". When she tried to speak about this at the concert, she was warned to be quiet by the people around her, for fear of being beaten. At this point, KSAN's Scoop Nisker mentioned the bystander effect and the Murder of Kitty Genovese.[17]
Maybe the Nazis should've made it a concert.
I am Laslo.
@Bob Ellison
Which of those describe the Tea Party protests?
I will not vote for any Republican unless the candidate is a supporter of Trump or is endorsed by Trump. And I will not vote for a Democrat. If there are no alternatives – ANY alternative will do(Green Party, Socialist Party, Libertarian Party, etc.), I will not vote for anyone for that particular race.
In the past I’ve donated to the Republican Party, not because I particularly liked the GOP but because the GOP was an alternative to the Lefty candidates. That ended when the eGOP revealed the GOP’s true nature. I now know that my donations were wasted.
I'm with you, grackle! I have even written the GOP telling them that they will never get any further support from me if they continue to undermine Trump's presidency. And it would seem that they are only doubling down on just that. They are TOAST!
Triangle Man, maybe some degree of get-off-my-lawnism among Tea Partiers. They mostly gathered in favor of individualism and liberty and against the immortal monster that is uncontrolled government.
If you polled people on who the Tea Partiers were and who their allies are, you'd probably get a list like this: Nazis, white supremacists, uneducated hillbillies, etc. The MSM got its slanderous job done.
Re: grackle:
In the past I’ve donated to the Republican Party, not because I particularly liked the GOP but because the GOP was an alternative to the Lefty candidates. That ended when the eGOP revealed the GOP’s true nature. I now know that my donations were wasted.
I think the Trump and Sanders candidacies ought to have revealed to the leadership of the parties that they have lost credibility with the voters who support them -- that people have not supported them because of the policies they offered but rather, simply because they opposed the policies of the other side.
Sanders broke through, despite being a comically angry old White man who should never have got anywhere under the conventions of identity politics, because Democrats' supporters wanted what he had to offer, i.e. a socialism where rich people are forced to buy everything for you.
And Trump, despite being a flamboyant billionaire whose catchphrase is literally "You're fired!" broke through with swing voters because swing voters wanted immigration laws enforced and didn't like having to compete with low cost foreign manufacturers. And probably wanted someone to punch back at political correctness.
But I don't think the message has got through. Democrats have doubled down on identity politics -- I guess because that's a lot easier than abandoning the plutocrats who bankroll the party -- and the Republican leadership are visibly resentful that voters are dragging them towards policies they do not actually support.
Antifa shows up at Pro-Trump rallies or Milo Y speeches at Berkeley in black masks with bats, clubs, bicycle locks and other weapons to intimidate their opponents, break windows, destroy property and cause violence, if necessary.
True, they are only a small portion of the Left. But they are the stormtroopers, the action squad.
I'll give them a Mulligan on their goofy ideas. But they are as bad, if not worse, than modern day neo-Nazis -- by their actions.
Re: Bob Ellison:
Triangle Man, maybe some degree of get-off-my-lawnism among Tea Partiers. They mostly gathered in favor of individualism and liberty and against the immortal monster that is uncontrolled government.
I don't know that they were really against uncontrolled government -- they were famously fine with Medicare and Medicaid and Social Security. But those are broad based middle-class entitlements (one of the reasons they're insanely expensive). As I read it, the Tea Party was, above all, a revolt of the middle class. They wanted the government to work for them rather than against them. Many of the initial protests were in opposition to the bank relief (TARP) authorised by Bush II and continued by Obama; others were against the massive stimulus bill the Democrats pushed through early in Obama's term. The unifying trend was irritation that the government was redistributing money from ordinary middle class people who had lived ordinary middle class lives to bailout other people -- all the way from elite bankers who bundled bad mortgages to deadbeats who lied on their mortgage applications and bought more house than they could afford -- who had enjoyed living beyond their means these past few years and now had come a cropper. Even if you think the Bush-Obama approach was the correct approach to maintain stability in the face of a global financial crisis, it's hardly surprising that lots of people who hadn't given in to the temptations of ARMs and NINJA loans and HELOCs thought it was deeply, deeply unfair that their money was being taken to keep the people who had afloat. And simplifying it to individualism and liberty vs. uncontrolled government doesn't quite reflect the phenomenon as it first emerged. In my opinion.
That said, since the rise of more organised "Tea Party" groups -- i.e. not the original protests but the organised activist groups that have arisen since -- what the "Tea Party" is has changed somewhat, though.
I don't know that they were really against uncontrolled government -- they were famously fine with Medicare and Medicaid and Social Security.
They've also been around forever. Being against expansion but for the prior status quo is nothing like supporting "uncontrolled government".
"Maybe the Nazis should've made it a concert.
I am Laslo."
Well, the Nazis did have Leni Riefenstahl and fab uniforms designed by Hugo Boss.
Roehm would not have been fab enough for Titus though. Too dumpy and ugly.
Antifa: Because street violence against Nazis was so effective at stopping Hitler from becoming Chancellor.
It is a federal felony to deny another person their civil rights. It is anti-constitutional to deny someone their right to free expression under the First Amendment. It is an affront to the rights that are the bedrock of our Republic to prevent lawful public expression or assembly by force or threat of force. If force is used, it is also an assault.
These left-wing goons are criminals. Even so, they will never be forcefully denounced by the Democrats or the leftmedia so long as their crimes further their political agenda. It is ever so.
This article, lukewarm in its denunciation, is nevertheless a bold departure from that norm.
There was a short video clip showing the uber right doughboys in unfortunate haircuts pushing back against a passive line of police in riot gear. The filmer was bleating about this being white privilege because if they were black, the cops would be clubbing and shooting instead of playing Gandhi. Good point, but the cops basically do the same thing in the face of leftist rioters in Berkeley and elsewhere, also because white privilege.
It seems pretty simple: speech is good, violence is bad. The left is making a big mistake going against free speech. Look what happened when they went over the top on gun control in the 1990's. They have a great opportunity to marginalize much of the foul republican but are jumping off a cliff trying to shoot the moon.
Balfegor: "Democrats have doubled down on identity politics -- I guess because that's a lot easier than abandoning the plutocrats who bankroll the party -- and the Republican leadership are visibly resentful that voters are dragging them towards policies they do not actually support."
Democrats are hopeless. Trump still has enough intransigent support among Republicans to bury the GOPe. He should go straight at the McConnell/Ryan brigades with primaries to see who blinks first. We aren't supporting him because he is likeable or even a good President. We support him because the Beltway is hopelessly corrupt and he is our only outside remedy. The seditious alliance of the GOPe, Democrats, leftmedia, Antifa, BLM, etc., is evidence of the corruption and provides a grim prophecy of our future if Trump fails.
If the GOPe doesn't blink and the Trumpers bring the Republicans down, so be it. Why prolong the inevitable dominance of lefty fascists?
50 comments without a Leftist.
One must wonder at that oddity.
May as well include some Zappa:
So I'm watchin' and I'm waitin'
Hopin' for the best
Even think I'll go to prayin'
Every time I hear 'em sayin'
That there's no way to delay
That trouble comin' every day
No way to delay
That trouble comin' every day
You know we got to sit around at home
And watch this thing begin
But I bet there won't be many live
To see it really end
'Cause the fire in the street
Ain't like the fire in the heart
And in the eyes of all these people
Don't you know that this could start
On any street in any town
In any state if any clown
Decides that now's the time to fight
For some ideal he thinks is right
And if a million more agree
There ain't no Great Society
As it applies to you and me
Our country isn't free
And the law refuses to see..."
Trouble comin' every day lyrics
When Ben Carson's home is vandalized because of his association with Trump this movement becomes even more despicable. I really hope that black people in general will at least turn their backs on these white-privileged brats if not confront them directly. They aren't fighting for black civil rights but for their own identity.
@Birkel. The title must not have triggered their algorithms.
they are its unlikeliest allies
Anyone who has the slightest knowledge of leftist revolutionary theory knows that unlikeliest should in fact read likeliest.
Yeah, if the Left is anything, it's anti-authoritarian!
Antifa and their supporters in the media are pushing the laughable notion that they're battling the Nazis of WW II--Antifa have been compared to WW II veterans-- when in reality present day neo-nazis in America have nowhere near the influence or power of the original Nazis. Other than misfits and losers, no Americans, especially those in the govt, want to be associated with neo-nazis. When the media and leftist pundits push the idea that the GOP=Nazi Party they lose the argument, because people not afflicted with Trump Derangement Syndrome, whether they are Republican or not, know this is bullshit.
People are pushing a meme to redefine Antifa as "anti first amendment", and it might catch on because it rings true. Despite the narrative being pushed, many believe the agenda of Antifa is not to fight against the marginalized and despised neo-nazi movement, but to silence all right wing speech. Every time Antifa uses violence or the threat of violence to shut down free speech, they lose more support from fair-minded people.
I don't see them fueling right-wing authoritarianism, although that's possible. The more salient point is that they are practicing left-wing authoritarianism. Anita = Anti-1A.
You will purchase medical insurance or pay the penalty and you will like it.
The rite of abortion must not be imperiled through acknowledgement of human evolution and human rights.
Then there are the millions of Americans that fall in the Obamacare gap, between expanded Medicaid and affordable health care.
“ ... they are its unlikeliest allies ...”
True. And truly irrelevant.
Because they have a bottom line: “This shit is fun.”
The unlikely allegiance to the unintended effect of motivating larger numbers to neo-Nazi assemblies – increases – the fun ride factor at Great America amusement parks (as I wrote recently) – “this shit is fun.” – so that the Antifa crowd-sourcing of larger and larger numbers of neo-Nazis in public parks is a metric success, enlarging opportunities for more “righteous beatings,” against the cloistered in Trump Tower “orange man who bragged about sexually harassing women and who is waging a war of hate, racism and prejudice.”
I’ve read the article three times. Am thankful for it. The article is okay for its headline, “The Rise of the Violent Left,” but it is weak, to a fault, in the poor byline, “Antifa’s activists say they’re battling burgeoning authoritarianism on the American right. Are they fueling it instead?,” because any burgeoning authoritarianism on the American right is fueled less by the still-small and non-burgeoning percentages of neo-Nazis than by the burgeoning authoritarianism as embodied in the – state – itself (they’re anarchists after all), and the neo-Nazis are just the convenient small boys, showing up in public parks, while cops hide on lazy-boy rockers in safe houses, and while the “orange man” a-Tweets e-media, but not much otherwise emerging.
“ ... they are its unlikeliest allies ...”. And they don’t care. They aren't his closed-television-set, studio made up, orange-cosmeticized -- apprentices.
“This shit is fun.”
For now.
Fair article from “The Atlantic.”
Laslo, “The Romance of the Street-Fighting Man.”
“ ... get down ...”
In re Laslo,
Jagger vs Lennon: London's riots of 1968 provided the backdrop to a rock'n'roll battle royale
Brilliant. Thanks.
“The Grosvenor Square riots are a footnote in the story of 1968.”
Heh. Cursed are they who have no music in their gros-square souls.
I will read the Atlantic article. For now, I'll say it’s a little frustrating listening to the characterizations of the “sides” in Charlottesville. First - as regards to the “violent left,” what is not acknowledged (by the likes of AA and others) is that many on the left dislike the anarchists (please, can we call them what they really are?) and think of them as well, anarchy-loving, violent opportunists. We disliked their signs at the women's march. I’ve been seeing them in DC for a very long time, since the inauguration of Bush II. What silly skinny people they are. We condemn them. And what’s not acknowledged is the peace-loving left. The counterprotesters in Charlottesville from what I could tell were comprised of yes, some anarchists, but also locals as well as out of towners who were NOT anarchists and were not violent. I do not have footage so I can’t tell who started what skirmish, but it seems the majority of the counterprotesters were there as a way to say “no” to white nationalists. And yes, they did lump all of them in together, with the thinking (probably) that, hey you’re marching with Nazis, you’re a racist and stand for values that are counter to our country. But, they did not attempt to stop the march (that I can tell, but I saw very little).
Before Trump’s inauguration, Richard Spencer came to DC, and met with his organization in the Reagan building. There was some outrage, but it seems that us residents learned about it mostly after it had taken place (“Hail Trump”). That video was enough for people to plant his image on their brain, and during the inauguration someone socked him in the face.
As for those protesting the removal of the statues. I am shocked and saddened at the rate they are being removed, even as I realize that I just may be out of step with the majority, even a sizable portion of those living in the Deep South. On the national scale, there seems to be little room for a perspective such as mine and Ann's when she objected to removing a plaque to the Confederate soldiers in Wisconsin. This is history, our history, my history, and what's going on now does feel a little totalitarian. Many are very very sad and disappointed, but I suppose we will get over it.
There is also the thinking that the march on Saturday was no big deal and people should just have sat it out. Here's the thing - harken back to just how big a deal Skokie was in the pre-“antifa” days of the 1970s. There were a lot of preparations and much handringing, and court cases and it was eventually decided correctly that they had a right to march and wear whatever they wanted to. But, it was a big deal. The marchers have races and religions that are TARGETS, like it or not. Just because the overwhelming majority of us are not included in their targeted groups does not mean everyone else is so blase about it.
Perhaps Ann's imagining that people on Saturday should have acted the way people do or rather did whenever the Klan would get up a parade in the South. They were sparsely attended and what kept people away typically in the past was not “more speech,” but shame. No one respectable wanted to be anywhere near those people. Yeah, those people.
But I think Richard Spencer is different. He seems more mainstream. He’s college educated and not poor. He is more sophisticated and, dare I say, cosmo. And just as important, he feels he has a sympathetic president. This is what is driving the counterprotests. The threat is greater, in their eyes, than some random klan rally.
Sadly, HT, you will never get over it.
This is just another act in a very long series intended to erase history, culture, patrimony. It is of a piece with the quiet removal of the classics from American education.
They will not destroy this all in you, but your descendants will be empty husks.
No, they are fine, grown, not empty! What I can't stop thinking about is, why now? I suppose it started with Dylan Roof, but goodness, we had 8 years of Obama.
So far, the Beinhart article is pretty good. But again - many of us on "the left" do NOT like these anarchists. You can't WORK with them!
From the Atlantic article: "A politicized fight culture is emerging, fueled by cheerleaders on both sides."
This is what I was talking about the other day when I said these people need to get their aggressions out in a structured environment. That was probably naive: it's probably way too late.
Re: HT:
I will read the Atlantic article. For now, I'll say it’s a little frustrating listening to the characterizations of the “sides” in Charlottesville. First - as regards to the “violent left,” what is not acknowledged (by the likes of AA and others) is that many on the left dislike the anarchists (please, can we call them what they really are?) and think of them as well, anarchy-loving, violent opportunists. We disliked their signs at the women's march. I’ve been seeing them in DC for a very long time, since the inauguration of Bush II. What silly skinny people they are. We condemn them.
GOOD! Condemn them! But call these goons by their name: ANTIFA. And recoil from them like the scum they are.
"Which is why, in the Trump era, the movement is growing like never before." Peter Beinart.
It would have been good to see some quantification of that statement.
At any rate, I learned something about the anarchists, from the article. Growing up Alabama, I did not know of any, and so they just kind of puzzled me up here in DC, and they were like those straying pieces of hair in your face.
But alas, in all this, I harken back to that bowlful of diarrhea flushing down the toilet that was the Republican debate in Detroit, circa March 2016. If only people could have put down the crack pipe that is Donald Trump and voted for the boring white guy (the fellow from Ohio, Kasich), we'd be in so much a better position. I would have probably voted for him!!!!!
And one last thing since Ann seemed to express some sympathy for the Confederate gravesite. Ann says that if only the counterprotests had left everything alone, no one would’ve been riled up, and the silly little march would have happened and no ‘progress’ on the alt right front would have been made - they probably would have been exposed as petty and weak (if I am in the general ballpark here). But think about this - isn’t what the alt right itself doing, going precisely against their stated goals? The rate of statue removal is accelerating the more they demonstrate. Maybe they are the ones who should have been chilling.
Michael K said...
"The leader and organizer of the "unite the Right" rally is a former Obama supporter.
See this Breitbart report and note that it sources the SPLC for the info that Kessler was an Obama supporter and "Occupy" guy.
This guy is either a turncoat, a false flag operation or a would-be Hitler looking for an army"
Why would one be surprised that ("Occupy" & Antifa) international socialists, national socialist (KKK & Nazi types) aren't congruent? Both are totalitarian, both want to eliminate the middle class, both hate is based on race.
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