July 28, 2017

He's fired. Reince is out.

"I am pleased to inform you that I have just named General/Secretary John F Kelly as White House Chief of Staff. He is a Great American...."

"..and a Great Leader. John has also done a spectacular job at Homeland Security. He has been a true star of my Administration."

"I would like to thank Reince Priebus for his service and dedication to his country. We accomplished a lot together and I am proud of him!"

3 tweets, just now.

157 comments:

Birches said...

Why would you want to go from DHS to Chief of Staff?

stever said...

Surprised it lasted this long

Alex said...

Trump admin is the biggest train wreck ever! Basically anyone who isn't an uber ass kisser is a goner! No wonder Laura Ingraham didn't get a job there, she wasn't willing to sell her soul to 'The Donald'.

Feste said...

For God's sake, let us sit upon the ground
And tell sad stories of the death of kings;
How some have been deposed; some slain in war,
Some haunted by the ghosts they have deposed;

Feste is an Aspiration. Colombo, a Totem. Love taught me trust. Pain taught me wisdom.

Feste said...

"Only a fool in here would think he's got anything to prove." ~ Dylan

FWBuff said...

With apologies to Freddie Mercury:

"Scaramucci, Scaramucci,
Will you do the fandango?"

Ray said...

This is really good, or bad.

Priebus if I understand correctly was basically GOPe. His take was working with Congress, and that has not gone well. The rate of confirmations has been a joke. Not to mention little legislation getting through.

Bannon is more the nationalistic, America first type. The other major faction.

I wonder what other shoes will drop...

CJ said...

Anything that scares Democrats is a good move. You will know when they're frightened because they'll start declaring the presidency a train wreck and "failed".

Laslo Spatula said...

Lather. Reince. Repeat?

I am Laslo.

David Baker said...

"No wonder Laura Ingraham didn't get a job there..."

She's a lightweight.

Fabi said...

General Kelly to the white [house] courtesy phone.

mccullough said...

Kelly is more impressive than Reince. Reince is a political advisor/lawyer. Fine for what it's worth but it isn't much. He can now lobby for whatever since he's not going back to Wisconsin

rcocean said...

Its clear now, that Trump brought Scaramouche in to find the leaks and clean house, and Rinse was a leaker.

Also, Trump made Rinse C-O-S, because he thought he could get the DC insiders, especially the Senate RINOs, to go along with MAGA.

The Health care debacle showed that to be wrong.

Trump is a business man. In corporate America, you give a man a task. If he succeeds, you reward him - if he fails, you fire him and get someone else. Don't know if that system will work in the Government/politics. But evidently Trump is willing to try.

rcocean said...

I wouldn't be surprised if Rinse P. convinced Trump to do Health care first, because it would be an 'easy win'.

Fabi said...

You're a little late with that, CJ -- Alex has already declared it the "biggest train wreck ever" upthread.

David Baker said...

Chief-of-Leaks out.

Kelly beginning to look like a candidate.

mccullough said...

Interesting that Kelly taking over wasn't leaked

Tommy Duncan said...

Blogger Birches said...

Why would you want to go from DHS to Chief of Staff?


Because you love your country and are willing to put your country before your own interests?

Mark Jones said...

Cue the "It's a trainwreck!" and "Trump is flailing!" cries from the Democrats and Lifelong Republicans.

I. Don't. Care. If it weren't Trump, it would Hilary and Business As Usual (tm) in DC. I voted for Trump to try to change all that. Maybe he'll succeed. Maybe he won't. Maybe the swamp is too deep, the rot too firmly established, the Augean Stable too deeply mired in shit, for him to win this battle. But at least he's trying.

That's more than any of the usual suspects in the GOP could have ever said. I regret nothing.

The Godfather said...

Priebus has always been described as an establishment Republican, and that certainly seems to be his background. I give Trump credit for appointing him, and I give Priebus credit for taking the job. I'm not surprised that this Prince-and-the-Showgirl marriage didn't work out. I personally think that Trump would have a more successful Presidency if he learned to listen more to people like Priebus (if Twitter cancelled his account that would also help), but that doesn't seem to be the kind of guy he is. Right now I'm more angry about McCain, but, again, that's the kind of guy he is.

I think I'll have another Martini.

Mark said...

Like this will end the leaks permanently, lol

After a while, its going to get hard to find qualified people to take all these replacement positions.

Feste said...

Dopamine Daddy

Neurons That Code for Uncertainty. Science 21 Mar 2003

Extracted. Efflorescently Edited. Factor for going-by-memory.

Prior theory-fit-to-facts: prediction error. Information encoded in dopaminergic neurons resulted in decreases in neural activity when predicted Pavlovian rewards failed to match actual rewards.

Applied: pro-Trumpers keep salivating. To diminishing returns.

New data (2003): whole new populations of dopaminergic neurons discovered, encode to reward uncertainty. The activity of these neurons increases as the delivery of reward becomes less certain .

Applied: pro-Trumpers keep salivating for uncertainty.

Dems start salivating in same uncertainty – too.

Nonpareil storyteller, Dopamine Daddy.

Feste is an Aspiration. Colombo, a Totem. Love taught me trust. Pain taught me wisdom.

Bay Area Guy said...

Call me when somebody is indicted. Change of staff is uninteresting.

mockturtle said...

I always suspected Reince was rather weak broth for the role of COS.

Clayton Hennesey said...

Kelly is a leader of men. That's why Trump picked him, to shape up his corps. As to why Kelly took it, successfully turning the White House around as CoS would be a far greater and more visible achievement than serving out his days as a head bureaucrat.

Trump is a business man. In corporate America, you give a man a task. If he succeeds, you reward him - if he fails, you fire him and get someone else.

Exactly so.

It's amazing that so many out there mistake the structure of and values circulating on Facebook and Twitter for basic constitutional U. S. civics.

readering said...

The concern I would have is Kelly's age--67. WHCOS seems to be a young person's job, or at least not an old person's. But I guess the schedule may not be as tough if the boss is 71.

rcocean said...

Reince Priebus has one of those unusual names that I can never spell or remember correctly. I always think of "Rinse Penis".

Same thing Ta-Neshis Coates - all i can remember is "Tennessee Coats".

Titus said...

More big apple less cheese curd

Howard said...

rc u funny!

rcocean said...

Did Reince Priebus do a good job? Obviously, I don't know. I don't have the knowledge.

Certainly, RP's establishment credentials didn't help Trump get Healthcare passed. And the White House seemed incredibly leaky and divided.

Trump isn't pleased, and he thinks new subordinates will help him. Hard to disagree.

Trumpit said...

John Kelly is a retired Marine Corp. general. The U.S. is soon going to war against North Korea - they launched another ICBM today. Trump wants Kelly for his military advice during the coming no-holds-barred war that will destroy North Korea.

Achilles said...

Looks like another uniparty operative is gone.

Looking forward to the primaries.

Howard said...

Pretty simple. Rinse brought him to the dance, then failed to boogie with congress.

readering said...

I wonder if Kelly will talk POTUS into making the White House Communications Director a direct report.

CJ said...

John Kelly is a retired Marine Corp. general. The U.S. is soon going to war against North Korea - they launched another ICBM today. Trump wants Kelly for his military advice during the coming no-holds-barred war that will destroy North Korea.

I am also worried this might be the case.

We will need Russia as an ally against China and its client state NK.

Brookzene said...

Anything that scares Democrats is a good move.

Stupid. Unpatriotic.

buwaya said...

"its going to get hard to find qualified people"

For this sort of role, what is "qualified"?

History does not support the idea that leadership positions like this depend on experience for success, especially when the world has changed around several times since they started their careers. Every war, it seems, finds a great number of old men who are not qualified, and a great number of much younger ones who are much better. The US still has a tremendous pool of potentially excellent leaders for almost any position.

SukieTawdry said...

I double dog dare you to call John Kelly a fucking paranoid schizophrenic, Scaramucci.

Good move.

buwaya said...

"Stupid. Unpatriotic. "

That is an ancient criticism of Democrats, or the institutional, political sort anyway. With a great deal of justification, going back to the latter days of the Cold War.

Brookzene said...

I think I'll have another Martini.

I'm ready to take up drinking!

Howard said...

Bannon was quoted as saying mmmhmmslurpahhhburp

The Toothless Revolutionary said...

Rinse is going to have to find another client to put up with his stupid spin cycle.

SukieTawdry said...

Why would you want to go from DHS to Chief of Staff?

I think the DHS job would be one giant pain in the ass. Uber bureaucracy. Probably unmanageable (its formation was a big mistake). On the other hand, Chief of Staff is smack dab in the middle of the action. A chance to make a real difference. Challenging and fun.

The Toothless Revolutionary said...

More big apple less cheese curd...

HAHAHA

Jim at said...

"I'm ready to take up drinking!"

Try the hemlock.

chickelit said...

Rinse is going to have to find another client to put up with his stupid spin cycle.

Rinse wanted to be JEB's right-hand man. Now he is free to become that.

Michael K said...

Its clear now, that Trump brought Scaramouche in to find the leaks and clean house, and Rinse was a leaker.

I've been reading that for several months.

Also, McCain's vote was probably the last straw for Priebus.

I think they will have to pivot to taxes and let healthcare stew for a while.

Brookzene said...

Try the hemlock.

Someone whose feelings I hurt. Tsk.

Feste said...

Certain: “Reince was rather weak broth for the role of COS.” More certain than not.

Certain: “John Kelly is a retired Marine Corp. general,” call in the Marines. Certain.

Uncertain, “U.S. is soon going to war against North Korea .... Trump wants Kelly for his military advice during the coming no-holds-barred war that will destroy North Korea.” There’s no certainty that Kelly will advise “no-holds-barred war that will destroy North Korea.” CoS may or may not trump Joint Chiefs. Game maths applied to wars - especially “no-holds-barred war” - as analyzed and decided by Joint Chiefs are never going to be made available to us in the commons. And those war-game maths are always intrinsically laden with uncertainties because uncertainty is what they’re to assess. That real stuff is held close. Uncertainty.

Certain: Trump will need a war, or will need to have Kelley attack Congress, or both, to accomplish substantive stuff to keep promises to his base. Game options narrowing since Scaramucci won’t manhandle Kelly. More likely other way around. Certain that Trump needs substantive victories. I’m still hoping Trump will drain the swamp. Cleaning his internal affairs is not the same as accomplishing substance.

I want to see more substance-cards played and won. Reserving judgment.

eddie willers said...

I was surprised when Reince went with Trump when he seemed to be just another Never Trumper. He got rewarded and ether lost heart or was a mole all along.

An experiment that failed at the very least.

Achilles said...

Blogger Titus said...
"More big apple less cheese curd"

Strong work.

buwaya said...

On how leadership changes to suit, when old men fail, and young men rise.

In 1942 USAFFE (finally, belatedly, after it had already sprung up) concluded they had to establish a guerrilla movement behind Japanese lines. So in the very last days of the resistance in Bataan, several parties of officers and men led by Lt. Colonel Claude Thorpe, with other senior officers Col's. Moses and Noble, escaped through Japanese lines and penetrated to the mountains of Zambales, and further into the Sierra Madre. These officers, along with Philippine Colonel Nakar, were officially designated chieftains of the resistance by Douglas MacArthur.

Thorpe, Moses, Noble and Nakar did their courageous best to organize and lead such a movement, but all four were quickly captured and executed by the Japanese. Their reach exceeded their grasp. In the end they were conventional men (more or less, Thorpe had his moments) in an unconventional situation.

However, among their junior officers, a generation of captains, lieutenants and sergeants (and many civilians!) learned quickly and did succeed, often brilliantly - Volckmann, Lapham, Ramsey, Anderson, Cushing and many more. Some ended up leading enormous guerilla forces - Volckmann and Blackburn a whole fully equipped Division by 1945.

Achilles said...

Blogger Brookzene said...

"Stupid. Unpatriotic."

Calling democrats stupid and unpatriotic is accurate but kinda boring and overdone. You can do better.

Brookzene said...

I saw a report that Reince was the only campaign insider not to sign a non dis last year. I doubt it but that would be a lot of fun if it were true

Brookzene said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Dust Bunny Queen said...

Geez. Some people act like the administrative staff around Trump, once chosen, should remain encased in amber and that no one ever should be let go, moved to another position or demoted. They must remain in position forever!!!!

As circumstances change, so must you. Preibus is a Washington DC swam critter. His job was to be able to schmooze and cajole the other swamp critters. It wasn't working. So when Plan A is obviously no doing well, you give it a try and THEN switch to Plan B.

None of this is earth shattering news.

Plus the reason the media is so twitterpated is likely that they know they have lost and are losing many of their "unnamed sources".

The Toothless Revolutionary said...

"More big apple less cheese curd"

Strong work.


Well, apparently you're one to think so, right? You do believe that wealth is a sign of decency and nobility, last I'd read.

Actually, every other day you seem to switch sides on whether elite special interests are a sign of good character or part of a swamp that needs to be drained. It's a little, er, "beleaguering," to quote some very special other person.

I really wish you would make up your mind. Or maybe one of those positions is just a convenient foil for the other one.

Known Unknown said...

I'll have to check if this type of turnover is natural for any previous administrations, but without all the media gnashing and wailing.

Mark said...

Reince Priebus is an Establishment guy.

And Trump, to his credit, tried to bridge any gaps with the Establishment faction by making him such a prominent part of the Administration.

And instead of him and them being thankful and working together, Priebus has ill-served the president since the first day. He should have never been hired. But Trump tried to work with the Establishment people. And all he got for his trouble was them pissing all over everything.

iowan2 said...

All have convenient memories. I remember all the squealing when President Trump won. All the establishment was apoplectic, about the President. They called him and idiot, despite decades of accomplishments. The 'narrative' floated was that the President had to mix in a bunch of DC types in order to do anything. Despite all the phony stories, President Trump is a reasonable person and went along with those that claimed to be experts and brought on DC insiders.

It is now evident that they are the leakers and working to make the Trump Presidency look bad.Trump tried it their way for 6 months, now he's back to following his instinct and experience.
Funny how the common refrain concerning President Trump is that the Presidency has never looked like this, its President Trumps fault. All the time ignoring that never in the history of the Nation has the losing party refused to a peaceful turnover of power.


buwaya said...

"on whether elite special interests are a sign of good character "

This is a complex topic of course. And a great deal of history, in the sense of the various ideas on the prestige of wealth and status. As also of "elite special interests".

The correct opinion here is ... mixed. As usual. People are messy.

Mark said...

And for those who continue to obsess and bitch about Trump, understand this --

If the Republican Establishment was not such a bunch of weak, spineless, incompetent, fraudulent worms, if they -- including POS John McCain -- had not been such collaborators with the Democrats to totally fuck up everything they touch, then Trump would never have been elected.

Congratulations you whiny pieces of ****, YOU are the reason that we have Trump as president. Look in the fucking mirror if you don't like it.

Original Mike said...

But, but, but, ...surely General Kelly has talked to a Russian or two throughout his career. Doesn't that disqualify him?

buwaya said...

And of course there are "elite special interests" and other "elite special interests", of vastly different natures. Often you will have both sets (or all the sets of sets) within the same "interest".

In any industry (lets say that is what is meant by a certain category of "elite special interest"), knowledge of the organization, the cost drivers, the competitive threats, the regulatory and legal risks and opportunities, the culture of the management, and etc. all need to be understood in order to understand what their political posture has to be.

Mark said...

And for all those who bitched and whined about George W. Bush, blaming him for this and that -- now do you see who the real problems were/are??

Bush tried to cater to and placate McCain and the other Establishment folks, and in return, they did the same thing to him that they are doing to Trump, sabotaging and undermining everything, while also playing their extortion game and holding the country hostage to their own personal whims.

This is why I stopped calling myself a Republican 20 years ago.

Mark said...

In the aftermath of 2008, I said that we needed "to settle all family business." It didn't happen. And we are still suffering for it.

buwaya said...

Let us consider a generic large IT company in California, an "elite special interest" if ever there was one, as to its desiderata and a corresponding political stance -

Cost Drivers - these guys want Super-H1b, bad.
- Political inclination= Democrat, trad Republican

Financial constraints - They want their stranded capital overseas freed; so corporate tax reform
- Political inclination = trad AND populist Republican

Retained Earnings Glut - They want rapid GDP growth, to create opportunities to invest that cash in something real, or at least earn some interest, so, in general, reduce stifling regulations.
- Political inclination - trad (well, some) and populist Republican

Fear of Competition - They want to keep their economies of scale, which apply mainly to the ability to scale regulatory compliance, and play various other tricks such as extensions of copyrights and fancy accounting.
- Political inclination - Democrat

CEO and friends (and their wives!) social aspirations. Heck, even people who buy their friends can be fooled. These are all incredibly rich people way, way up on Maslows hierarchy.
- Political inclination - Democrat

Just a few of the drivers of the political expressions of an "elite special interest".

Narayanan Subramanian said...

Looks like every president gets to struggle to fix mistakes of their predecessor(s). NK goes back to Truman's .

Q:Did Washington leave any messes to be cleaned up?

Narayanan Subramanian said...

Trump is so unique that he cannot get honest counsel. Who can he trust in the swamp?
A very lonely and frustrating job. He will need tremendous courage and endurance.

Michael K said...

I think Wendell Fertig had a major role in the guerrilla force on Mindanao.

Fertig led the guerrillas against the Japanese and their collaborators, mostly in hit-and-run raids and vital coast watching activities.[4] After making contact with U.S. forces in the Pacific, the guerrillas began to receive supplies, but never enough to stage large scale attacks. More than once, the Japanese tried to destroy Fertig and his guerrilla army, committing large numbers of troops for this purpose. At these times, Fertig had his forces retreat before the Japanese until they were also dispersed, then counterattacked the Japanese with local superiority in numbers.[5] This continued until American forces returned to the Philippines.

Maybe you were referring to Filipinos who were guerrillas.

buwaya said...

"Did Washington leave any messes to be cleaned up? "

Canada
Tecumseh - The Northwest Indian War was not sufficiently successful as to entirely beak the Indian capacity for resistance. This led to a lot of further northern Indian troubles, especially in the War of 1812
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tecumseh%27s_War
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siege_of_Detroit

etc.

Pinandpuller said...

Reince Priebus, report to the disintegration room.

Chuck said...

This White House is "running like a fine-tuned machine."

http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/president-trump-administration-running-fine-tuned-machine/story?id=45540067

Now I have a question for everybody, including Professor Althouse. Let's set up the question.

You are the President, and you have just been presented with the news of Thursday, July 27. Anthony Scaramucci has wrongly and maliciously accused someone (perhaps Reince Priebus) of leaking Scaramucci's personal financial disclosure. Scaramucci's allegation wasn't just mistaken (the reporter who wrote about it said that Priebus was not her source) but it was ignorant, at a laughably basic level; the financial disclosure was a publicly-filed and publicly-available document. The reporter who wrote about Scaramucci's personal finances got the information online.

And then, the news of the obscenity-laced, reckless, insulting interview that Scaramucci had given to Ryan Lizza of The New Yorker.

So, let's hypothesize that Priebus and Scaramucci both tender their resignations to you. Which one do you accept?

This seems to me to be one of the great no-brainer questions of all time. And yet I expect it to cause all kinds of problems and arguments.

LMFAO.

buwaya said...

Re Fertig -

No, I am speaking only of the Luzon Guerrillas, who actually had formally assigned senior officers by USAFFE on Bataan/Corregidor, and SoWesPac initially. My point is that these leaders were replaced by their juniors. These junior officers actually did report to them from the beginning, many of whom, like Volckmann, Ramsey, Anderson, etc. had actually escaped from Bataan in the parties of their senior officers. The juniors (those that survived) surpassed their seniors.

Fertig was a US Army Reservist, he was not officially designated anything, being on Mindanao, where no US or Philippine officer had been given the job of organizing guerrillas (well, General Fort had, but he was persuaded to surrender according to the orders of Gen. Wainwright; the Japs killed him anyway). This was spontaneous, and only later was he given official recognition and status. The same was true of the other spontaneous guerrillas on other islands - Kanlaon in Leyte/Samar, Cushing (the other brother on Cebu), Peralta on Panay, etc.

And other spontaneous sorts on Luzon also, Markings - founded by a truck driver and a female journalist/US Army intelligence agent, Hunters - founded by a clique of Military Academy cadets and ROTC boys, etc. And the Huks, communists working with an old system of peasant radicals in Central Luzon.

None of these were part of that "official" US system, until later.

rcocean said...

"And for all those who bitched and whined about George W. Bush, blaming him for this and that -- now do you see who the real problems were/are??"

Well, Mark, I'm inclined to agree - partly. You seem to forget that GWB -himself- wanted to "cross the aisle" and make deals with Ted Kennedy on Immigration and Education.

And GWB - refused on principle - to fight back. He ignored all the Democrat's slime and character assassination. He constantly "turned the other cheek" and tried to "Work within the system".

And it got him nowhere.

And if Jeb Bush - who's a GWB clone - had been elected, he'd been trying the same approach and guess what? He would have gotten results. He would've "reached across the aisle" and given us Amnesty for illegal aliens. He would've passed TPP. He'd be lunching with McCain and Grahame and Chuck Schumer and wondering how to give us Single Payer HC and a war with Russia.

Tommy Duncan said...

Feste is an Aspiration. Colombo, a Totem.

Klaatu barada nikto.

Tank said...

Another good move.

The best.

Is Hillary president?

What happened

Chuck said...

I have another question for everybody:

Can anyone name another presidential administration with anything close to the kind of chaos seen in the Trump Administration, in the first six months?

~A National Security Advisor, fired for wrongdoing while under criminal investigation.
~A Communications Director, resigning.
~A Press Secretary, asked to resign.
~A Chief of Staff, asked to resign.
~An FBI director, fired under circumstances that apparently prompted a DoJ investigation.

And add in all of the surrounding scandal in at least three of those cases (Flynn, Preibus/Scaramucci, and Comey.)

Name another administration with anything like that level of scandal, confusion and/or chaos in the first year. We're not even close to completing the first year with Trump.)

Brookzene said...

But, but, but, ...surely General Kelly has talked to a Russian or two throughout his career. Doesn't that disqualify him?

Maybe he didn't lie about it.

Narayanan Subramanian said...

Q: I mean did he own the mess by willful mistaken choices or just unfinished business from preceding era?

HT said...

Flynn
Yates
Preet Bharara
Katie Walsh
James Comey
Michael Dubke
Sean Spicer
Michael Short
Reince Priebus
500 VA employees

On deck:
Do you make cookies inside a tree?
��
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EYgi5MyMqCs

Tommy Duncan said...

Chuck LLR said: "Name another administration with anything like that level of scandal, confusion and/or chaos in the first year. We're not even close to completing the first year with Trump."

Chuckie, name another President with a stated mission of draining the swamp.

The chaos exists because we have a President who has rejected the "go along, get along" motto.

The pretend scandals exist because the snakes in the swamp don't want the swamp drained.

Why don't you, Chuck the life long Republican, want the swamp drained?

buwaya said...

"Name another administration with anything like that level of scandal, confusion and/or chaos in the first year. "

If the situation is that the government, the actual structures and personnel thereof, are the enemies of the people, then this is as it should be. All other government transitions in the US were "normal" as these were simply the replacement of the administrators of the "permanent" government.

This has been a revolutionary situation. This is not a conflict of parties but of societies.

Left Bank of the Charles said...

Priebus is free!

readering said...

Think Kelly will last more than 30 months? Because in January 2012 DJT tweeted:
"3 Chief of Staffs in less than 3 years of being President: Part of the reason why @BarackObama can't manage to pass his agenda."

Quayle said...

"Name another administration with anything like that level of scandal, confusion and/or chaos..?

That's easy. Clinton

The president sexually harassed a subordinate.

Vince foster found dead.

Hillary slapped down on health care and on travelgate.

The president lies under oath to deprive a citizen her due process rights.

And I'm just getting started.



buwaya said...

At bottom, the problem is that the government (the management and most of the employees thereof, plus all the array of hangers on, consultants and NGO's), and both parties, and most of their financiers, want a set of public policies that the people, or most of them, don't want.

This substantial conflict is hidden (quite deliberately I think) in the mass of detail, personalities, controversies, speech policing, and emotionalism. All superstructure.

Achilles said...

"Can anyone name another presidential administration with anything close to the kind of chaos seen in the Trump Administration, in the first six months?"

We didn't send him there to get along with the shitheads in DC.

The Toothless Revolutionary said...

We didn't send him there to get along with the shitheads in DC.

Is that what all those Washingtonians are telling themselves? Good to know Trump won that state, too.

Achilles said...

"The president lies under oath to deprive a citizen her due process rights."

You mean one of the women billy raped.

chickelit said...

Readering posits: Think Kelly will last more than 30 months? Because in January 2012 DJT tweeted:
"3 Chief of Staffs in less than 3 years of being President: Part of the reason why @BarackObama can't manage to pass his agenda."


Obama's first two named Chiefs of Staff were Chicago pol-pals rewarded for getting him there. Trump at least is open-mined enough to appoint people outside of NYC. Or are you thinking that Scaramucci is CoS?

Michael K said...

This substantial conflict is hidden (quite deliberately I think) in the mass of detail, personalities, controversies, speech policing, and emotionalism. All superstructure.

Codevilla had a nice essay on the Cold Civil War last spring .

Victor Davis Hanson has a podcast on it but I saw a hard copy somewhere, Not just now.

America is in the throes of revolution. The 2016 election and its aftermath reflect the distinction, difference, even enmity that has grown exponentially over the past quarter century between America’s ruling class and the rest of the country. During the Civil War, President Lincoln observed that all sides “pray[ed] to the same God.” They revered, though in clashing ways, the same founders and principles. None doubted that those on the other side were responsible human beings. Today, none of that holds. Our ruling class and their clients broadly view Biblical religion as the foundation of all that is wrong with the world. According to the U.S. Civil Rights Commission, “The phrases ‘religious liberty’ and ‘religious freedom’ will stand for nothing except hypocrisy so long as they remain code words for discrimination, intolerance, racism, sexism, homophobia, Islamophobia, Christian supremacy, or any form of intolerance.”

Read the rest, as they say,

rcocean said...

<"This substantial conflict is hidden (quite deliberately I think) in the mass of detail, personalities, controversies, speech policing, and emotionalism. All superstructure."

One of the wisest things I've read at Althouse in the last few months.

Chuck said...

Okay I'm gonna throw out one more question to the group tonight:

Is it a good thing, that Trump seems to be distancing himself personally from the Republican Party, in dismissing former RNC Chairman Reince Priebus (along with Sean Spicer) as the White House Chief of Staff?

I expect that most of you will answer yes, on the basis that it is good for Trump to distance himself from the GOP establishment.

My own answer is also "yes." On the basis that it is good for the GOP to get as much distance from Trump as possible.

Big Mike said...

Without Preibus and his get out the vote machine, it's President Hillary and Mr. Loser Trump.

Nevertheless, the Chief of Staff especially serves at the pleasure of the president. I'm sure Preibus did his best in a tough job.

buwaya said...

"Is it a good thing, that Trump seems to be distancing himself personally from the Republican Party, in dismissing former RNC Chairman Reince Priebus (along with Sean Spicer) as the White House Chief of Staff?"

This is, I think, a case of missing the forest for the trees.
Which side is which?
What is the GOP, and what side is it on? That needs to be answered first.

Khesanh 0802 said...

Way back when we predicted a Trump presidency would be interesting if nothing else. We were right. I think Michael K's 7:36 is spot on. We are in the midst of a power struggle between the elites and the people. The elites know how to use the advantages of power. The people fortunately have the vote. Trump is leading a revolt and most leaders of revolts are not the most stable of people. I have no idea whether Priebus was a leaker, but I do know that he failed in the job he was supposed to do which was to round up the Republicans in Congress. I suspect that is the primary reason he was let go. He did a terrific job as head of the RNC, but that did not prepare him for the COS job. Can Kelly do better? I suspect there will be some red asses around the WH as soon as he takes charge. I also suspect that there will be some additional departures of those who can't/won't cut the mustard or can't, as they say in the Corps, "get with the program".

Snark said...

This President goes through personnel like Mike Pence goes through Two Corinthians. He needs a Cheif of Stiffs.

heyboom said...

Chuck, I have a few questions for you. Why in God's name did you vote for Trump? Either you lack principle or you're just a flat out liar. Neither is a very good reflection of your character. How can you possibly be so happy that Obamacare wasn't repealed? And what lifelong Republican calls his fellow party members "Trumpkins"?

Khesanh 0802 said...

Chuck; I think the Republicans are being damned fools for not getting things done that for 8years they have said they would do. The GOP elite has been separate from Trump since summer of 2016. They did their damnedest to sink Trump and look what happened. If they continue to act like they are a third party that's where they are going to end up, as a third party that slowly disappears. If they are going to survive they would be smarter to put up with the crassness and apparent instability and support Trump. He is going to have the bully pulpit for the next 3.5 years and the core of his program is what Republicans having been talking about for years.

buwaya said...

"Way back when we predicted a Trump presidency would be interesting if nothing else."

True. I predicted that, if he won, unlikely as that was, that in Washington every mans hand would be against him.

So I got one wrong and one right.

buwaya said...

Trump in Washington, as Ishmael

Genesis 16:12

"And he will be a wild man; his hand will be against every man, and every man's hand against him; and he shall dwell in the presence of all his brethren."

Feste said...

Michael K @ 7/28/17, 5:28 PM said...

I think they will have to pivot to taxes and let healthcare stew for a while.

Yes. Pivot to anything substantial.

How long before substance issues for this administration become ER mode rather than Med-surg where you have the convenience of getting calm tests results back? ER meaning decision-tree mode, often without test results, with the decision-trees still being empirically founded and refined. The analogy is a bit forced. For example, I don’t take this – "He's fired. Reince is out" – as ER mode. Not deep down. Guessing that decision was far, far more deliberative than press-makeweight. The press wants ambulance-chasing emergencies. Forget them. How long before Trump edges - for substance failures - into ER mode?

If possible, please ignore contrasts to Dem candidates on this question. Isolating on Trump’s base, just his base (population - not anecdotal), how long before ER for failed substance? If at all?

Drago said...

"Why in God's name did you vote for Trump?"

There is precisely zero evidence that he did.

bagoh20 said...

"Priebus if I understand correctly was basically GOPe. His take was working with Congress, and that has not gone well. "

That alone is more than enough to earn the "You're fired. A total failure at job one for Priebus. Not really great at it myself, but firing people who need firing is a tough and essential leadership skill, maybe the most essential in tough times with tough challenges. Fire more - hire better.

heyboom said...

Blogger Drago said...

"Why in God's name did you vote for Trump?"

There is precisely zero evidence that he did.


Exactly. I posted yesterday that my best friend of 31 years is a die-hard leftist. Even he doesn't obsess about Trump the way Chuck does.

bagoh20 said...

The Republicans who voted against repeal after running on it will never get my vote or support in the future. NEVER. Despite being a lifelong Democrat, I will never vote for one of them either, but I will support any primary challenger to those Republican liars and frauds.

Brookzene said...

And what lifelong Republican calls his fellow party members "Trumpkins"?

You need to get out more. There's a lot of them.

wildswan said...

On election night Trump gave Reince Priebus special thanks for all the work Priebus did to get Trump elected. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dc7AHfk6AcM 5:54:03 And he made Priebus chief of staff. But no one can say that Priebus was as good as chief of staff as he was at electing Trump. And so Priebus is replaced. In his tweet Trump makes no nasty remarks about Priebus and thanks him for his work. The town goes crazy but it isn't Trump's White House that's in chaos, it's the people covering him. They just can't figure out what he means by 'Make America Great Again' or why he would work to get jobs for Americans. They can't even talk about jobs in a rational way or about a business/job friendly climate in a rational way so how could they comprehend or cover what Trump is doing? "This is white nationalism" - as if blacks never worked or never lost jobs to immigration or to China. The present DC agenda is spite, malice and pettiness, the Democratic slogan is "A Better Deal (Than They Get in Venezuela.) It's all a swamp that needs to be drained and Trump is working on it. And he needed a new project manager. And he got one.

Achilles said...

Blogger The Toothless Revolutionary said...
We didn't send him there to get along with the shitheads in DC.

"Is that what all those Washingtonians are telling themselves? Good to know Trump won that state, too."

First Washington is really 2 states. Seattle and it's Olympia satellite and the rest of the state.

Second Bernie won the state. Since Bernie voters have certain cognitive limitations they voted for Hillary in the general..

Third Washington is a banana republic. Seattle has the magical ability to consistently produce more democrat votes during a recount. If there was a legitimate audit of the voter rolls in Seattle strange shit would happen.

Chuck said...

heyboom said...
Chuck, I have a few questions for you. Why in God's name did you vote for Trump?

For a Justice Gorsuch. Hopefully two, or three Gorsuches. That nomination is the one great, indelible Trump achievement. Lots of us think that.

Either you lack principle or you're just a flat out liar. Neither is a very good reflection of your character.

I just gave you a straight, honest answer. I can elaborate. As much as I wanted a Gorsuch, I feared and loathed more Sotomayors. I have many more, only slightly less obvious, answers to that question. That was easy. And I've been consistent about all of that. Consistent, and transparent.

How can you possibly be so happy that Obamacare wasn't repealed? And what lifelong Republican calls his fellow party members "Trumpkins"?

My problem with any plain "repeal" of Obamacare was, I gather, Trump's problem. It was too "mean." That's what he said, right? Trump says he wants to "cover everybody" and he says that the government will have to pay. Trump didn't want to cut Medicaid, which is what the House bill did. And Trump wants to lower premiums and wants people to have "great plans."

"Repeal" doesn't do any of that. I always thought "repeal" was mostly about hatred of Obama and Obama's signature achievement. "Reform" was never an option, because "reform" didn't kill "Obamacare." Big legislation is hard enough, with just the usual competing political ideologies and interest groups. When we layer a vendetta-like death wish for a preceding law, it gets crazy. Trump doesn't have anything like that kind of mandate. Big American legal schemes need to have bipartisan buy-in. The Democrats made a bad mistake in using their suermajority to pass Obamacare. The Republicans would have made an even worse mistake in doing the same with just an ordinary majority, on a one-party basis, via reconciliation.

I call them "Trumpkins" and "EverTrumpers" and "Cult 45" (none of them my inventions, of course) because they are so basically an initially hostile to the Republican Party. Just look at this thread. How many, hate the "GOPe" and the "uniparty" and include Republicans as part of the "swamp." And it started with Trump himself. You don't want to be part of the Republican Party? Good! I don't want you to be part of the Republican Party!

Tommy Duncan said...

Chuck, to repeat my question:

Why don't you, Chuck the life long Republican, want the swamp drained?

Chuck said...

Why don't you, Chuck the life long Republican, want the swamp drained?

I have no idea what that means. You'll have to be specific. A lot more specific.

Achilles said...

Blogger Big Mike said...
"Without Preibus and his get out the vote machine, it's President Hillary and Mr. Loser Trump. "

Republicans just killed the Obamacare repeal. The republican gotv machine is vestigial at best. They have been outed as soulless liars. A purge is required.

Michael K said...

The real GOTV machine was Trump's and his son-in-law. Preibus was Romney's GOTV and it lost.

Gospace said...

readering said...
The concern I would have is Kelly's age--67. WHCOS seems to be a young person's job, or at least not an old person's. But I guess the schedule may not be as tough if the boss is 71.


71 year old Trump is far more active and engaged then the (now) 55 year old president he replaced ever was.

Gospace said...

iowan2 said...
Funny how the common refrain concerning President Trump is that the Presidency has never looked like this, its President Trumps fault. All the time ignoring that never in the history of the Nation has the losing party refused to a peaceful turnover of power.


Second time in a week I've had to correct someone on this. This is the SECOND time in history the Democrat party has refused a peaceful turnover of power. The first time resulted in that little unpleasantness from 1861-1865.

Big Mike said...

@Achilles, I give you the sentiments of Don Surber:

"Vote them out?

We did that with Donald Trump.

He isn't our last chance. He is theirs. They either shape up under President Trump, or they may really see trouble next time."

Chuck said...

Wikipedia is so great sometimes.

Wikipedia has a handy graphic listing of all the Chiefs of Staff. And it is clear that Reince Priebus is the most abortive incoming Chief of Staff in modern history.

At 189 days, Priebus' is the third-shortest tenure ever in the position. But the only two shorter tenures were unlike Priebus' chaos.

James Baker, who was already a distinguished cabinet member and White House Counsel became the cleanup man at the end of the George H.W. Bush Administration's first term, when Samuel Skinner switched over to the '92 campaign full time. And so Baker's time as Chief of Staff was ended by the Clinton presidency.

And the shortest at 104 days was Pete Rouse, during the Obama Administration, when Rahm Emanuel left to run for mayor of Chicago, and it was before Bill Daley was brought in. Pete Rouse was in fact officially an "interim" Chief of Staff.

So, yeah; Reince Preibus was the most abortive Chief of Staff in history.

Read more:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_White_House_Chiefs_of_Staff

DanK said...

Doesn't that same Queen verse continue on to...

"...just gotta get out, just gotta get Reince outta here"?

Who else do the lyrics point to? "I see a little silhouetto of a man" is immediately followed by Scaramouche, but is he the silhouetto? Or is it the slender Jared Kushner? Does the fact that the song is sung to "Momma" indicate a role for Barron?

Michael K said...

More on the "Cold Civil War" this time from Edward Luttwak.

In the dramatic crescendo of the 2016 elections that gave Trump to the United States and the world, very possibly for sixteen years (the President’s re-election committee is already hard at work, while his daughter Ivanka Trump is duly apprenticed in the White House that, according to my sources, she means to occupy as America’s first female President), none of the countless campaign reporters and commentators is on record as having noticed the car “affordability” statistics distributed in June 2016 via www.thecarconnection.com. Derived from very reliable Federal Reserve data, they depicted the awful predicament of almost half of all American households. Had journalists studied the numbers and pondered even briefly their implications, they could have determined a priori that only two candidates could win the Presidential election – Sanders and Trump

Enjoy, lefties.

Achilles said...

Blogger Chuck said...
Why don't you, Chuck the life long Republican, want the swamp drained?

"I have no idea what that means. You'll have to be specific. A lot more specific."

For starters primarying every congressman and senator that voted against repeal of Obamacare.

Bad Lieutenant said...

Hey, now Sessions can be promoted to DHS!

Chuck said...

Achilles said...
Blogger Chuck said...
Why don't you, Chuck the life long Republican, want the swamp drained?

"I have no idea what that means. You'll have to be specific. A lot more specific."

For starters primarying every congressman and senator that voted against repeal of Obamacare.

Stupid, bullshit trashtalk.

Senator McCain's current term runs until 2022.

Senator Murkowski's current term also runs until 2022.

Senator Collins' current term runs as long as Trump's, to 2020. And she might well be the Governor of Maine by then. Because she has served Maine well and honorably and is the sort of moderate Republican who is loved in her state.

In the House, there were 20 Republican members who voted against the repeal/replace bill. Some of them voted no because they wanted a harsher repeal and replace. Of the moderates who opposed the bill, I expect that primarying them will be mostly unsuccessful, but may simply result in Democrats winning those swing districts (which is why moderate Republicans won those districts in the first place). And at least one of them, Rep. Ileana Ros-Lehtinen, has alrady announced her retirement.

So; knock yourself out. You and all your buddies can spout off all you want about primaries.

Achilles said...

"Stupid, bullshit trashtalk"

Cry more Chuck.

This is your best outcome. The republicans that voted repeatedly to repeal Obamacare when it meant nothing but betrayed us when it mattered are dead to us. Democrats are enemies. They are betrayers. Betrayers deserve worse.

iowan2 said...

Gospace. Thanks for the correction. How could I forget?

Even though, I have often heard since President Trump was elected, that Democrats haven't been this mad since Republicans took away the Democrats Slaves

Chuck said...

Achilles, you raised the specter of "primaries"! Who are you going to primary? What are you expecting out of it?

buwaya said...

What "draining the swamp" means is an interesting question.

So interesting that it in the way to being a conundrum.
History says that this simply cannot happen, that the outcome for any society caught in a "swamp" of expanding bureaucratic government is alternately quick collapse (often through conquest by a more efficient people) or at least to become sluggish and moribund, in some extended road to death. Consider Argentina. And to acquire a "swamp" is also inevitable.
The "swamp" is a fatal disease.

Part of the reason you can't get rid of a "swamp" is the massive complication of the regulatory structure and the also complex web of interests that attach to it. We see mention, in bits and pieces here, aspects of this complication. It is far beyond human abilities to understand and resolve this web (fighting an immense number of political battles) and create an efficient structure. The Gordian knot cannot be teased apart, only cut, violently, starting anew.

This process explains, for instance, much of Chinese history, which is a sequence of structural collapses, along with episodes of depopulation.

So can the US do this, to reform without something terrible, Alexanders sword, to cut the knot? If any polity, anywhere, ever could, it may be the US. But how, I don't know.

Trumps approach, to the extent we can see it, is a large scale pruning of the executive departments, or at any rate some of them, where he seems to have active subordinates, and enough of them. That he has been blocked in appointments is no accident. There have been articles on the terror of the inhabitants of some of these places that are being purged, but the media does not play it up. I dont know if this just what Trump can get at, and is opportunistic. I have no idea how far he can get either.

So will this work, to simply destroy the structure that enforces the impossible mess of laws, regulations and legal mandates? Would it not require the legislative destruction of all these mandates, and not simply the mandarins? You can always get more mandarins after all.

Considering the nature of US politicians, and the nature of their institutions, they simply haven't got the ability, the will, and the independence to spend their lives on reforming this. Simply understanding it is beyond human ability.

Bad Lieutenant said...

Hey, now Sessions can move to DHS!

heyboom said...

Chuck, you appear to be very knowledgeable about party politics, but instead of using it to educate or enlighten other members of the party you use it as a hammer to demolish them. On the other hand, you are not anywhere near as hostile to those on the left if you are at all. Can you not see why people are suspicious of you? This has all been hashed, rehashed and psychoanalyzed here on this blog, but wtf is your end game?

mockturtle said...

Buwaya, as I suggested yesterday, we start with term limits and dissolve the two predominant political parties. Another ploy is to move government departments--including the Pentagon--out of Washington DC and into flyover states. We have discussed this idea before and there is simply no reason in this era of telecommunications to have our entire government concentrated in DC. It is, in fact, a security risk.

chickelit said...

heyboom asks Chuck: Can you not see why people are suspicious of you?

Chuck cannot fathom that. He cannot fathom why someone would be suspicious of how a stated practicing attorney can spend his days and nights commenting on a blog, yet all the while billing clients. It just doesn't compute for "Chuck."

Achilles said...

Blogger Chuck said...
"Achilles, you raised the specter of "primaries"! Who are you going to primary? What are you expecting out of it?"

Me personally? Reichert.

Tommy Duncan said...

Blogger Chuck said...

Why don't you, Chuck the life long Republican, want the swamp drained?

I have no idea what that means. You'll have to be specific. A lot more specific.

Intentional ignorance and stupidity is a poor defense. You seek to be divisive and irritate others. What a sad existance.

Chuck said...

heyboom said...
Chuck, you appear to be very knowledgeable about party politics, but instead of using it to educate or enlighten other members of the party you use it as a hammer to demolish them. On the other hand, you are not anywhere near as hostile to those on the left if you are at all. Can you not see why people are suspicious of you? This has all been hashed, rehashed and psychoanalyzed here on this blog, but wtf is your end game?

I think a lot of left-wingers have self-selected their way off of the Althouse blog. In the days when this blog was supportive of Scott Walker and questioning the Madison protesters, nobody paid much attention to me. (Although that was when Althouse first started a "Chuck (the commenter)" tag.)

Now, because this blog's readership is so strangely tilted in favor of Trump, and because I dislike Trump personally, I am now much more noticeable. In any event, I think that the Trumpkins can't even see it, when I write that I am in favor of certain of the Trump Administration policies. That's on them, and their cultism, not on me.

I just choose to write about the things and the issues that seem to be of most urgency these days, and those things are mostly tracking the personal foibles of Trump and his senior staff.

Remember too that Althouse is choosing to post on things that are of interest to her. And her interest is not in things like a substantive debate over health care; rather her interest is in the ways and styles of Donald Trump's communications and messaging.

Bobber Fleck said...

Chuck said: Now, because this blog's readership is so strangely tilted in favor of Trump, and because I dislike Trump personally, I am now much more noticeable.

It's all about Chuck.

Rusty said...

chickelit said...
heyboom asks Chuck: Can you not see why people are suspicious of you?

Chuck cannot fathom that. He cannot fathom why someone would be suspicious of how a stated practicing attorney can spend his days and nights commenting on a blog, yet all the while billing clients. It just doesn't compute for "Chuck."

I seriously doubt he has a private practice. He communicates like an employee. With so much dialog during working hours I think he an attorney for a municipality or county government. Anyway. I just ignore him for the most part. he doesn't add much to the dialog.

iowan2 said...

Mockturtle comes back to the idea of moving agencies out of DC. I like that idea.

I said early on that President Trump would be stopped cold from governing by the deep state and all of Trumps holdovers.

That ASST Atty Yates? I would have moved her office to Fargo and had her out of DC in 24 hours. Then repeat for underlings that did not get the hint. He can still do it. What is does if forces communications out in the open. And the allure of DC is the sense of physically being in DC. Change the geography, change the behavior

The Toothless Revolutionary said...

I just saw him "interviewed" by Wolf Blitzer. It was the biggest, lamest jerk-off fest I've ever seen. One guy who doesn't know how to ask a question and the other who doesn't know how to provide an answer. No wonder Trump got rid of him. He's just a bland, Wiscansin, useless butterball-face, glomming on to power and completely impotent on getting to any point whatsoever. He said he and Trump were going in different directions but that he supported Trump 100%. What a fucking disconnect. And yet it was just left out there to dangle. Different directions, 100% support? I don't think they disagreed on nuthin' because I don't think Spin Cycle PreeButts has the balls to care about, take a stand on or make a difference with anything. Was it policy? Methodology? It was Rinse getting his ass canned and then continuing to kiss ass while only meekly throwing out the puffiest, barely perceptible on-air sighs at the unrequited nature of his slavish fandom.

Wisconsin people must be just natural-born obfuscating fuckfaces. Either that, or he seems to somehow fit right in.

The Toothless Revolutionary said...

The republicans that voted repeatedly to repeal Obamacare when it meant nothing but betrayed us when it mattered are dead to us. Democrats are enemies. They are betrayers. Betrayers deserve worse.

Where do you get the inspiration for your tenacity and murderous contempt? Silence of the Lambs?

Buffalo Bill was a guy who was dedicated to his mission. Man, you are a strange one. Go on and vow that revenge against a dying man just doing what his governor needs or two ladies from Alaska and Maine doing what their governor needs. Go travel to AZ, ME and AK and make a speech to the people about how you think they are shit and failed in you in not putting a stupid and destructive partisan goal above their own lives.

Narayanan Subramanian said...

I had read/heard that the original move to Washington from Philadelphia was to protect the tender ears of the slaves from all that talk about liberty and rights of individuals ... Any truth to this?

Brookzene said...

I said early on that President Trump would be stopped cold from governing by the deep state and all of Trumps holdovers.

Excuses excuses. Trump's trouble governing is a result of his own deficiencies. People who can't see that after this week will probably never see it - or own up to it. Always blame others.

Kevin said...

"Interesting that Kelly taking over wasn't leaked."

More evidence for the theory Reince was the leaker.

Kevin said...

"My own answer is also "yes." On the basis that it is good for the GOP to get as much distance from Trump as possible."

Interesting Chuck thinks the GOP can exist separately from Trump. Remove the pro-Trump people from the R-column and what do you have? A permanent minority party.

Trump beat 16 establishment Republicans for a reason. A reason lifelong Republicans understand as well as Hillary does.

Brookzene said...

More evidence for the theory Reince was the leaker.

There are probably multiple leakers. Conway was caught on tape. It's one of the tools for survival in a hostile environment.

Mark said...

For all the rage of the anti-Trumpers, paradoxically, it is they more than anyone who created Trump.

Their narcissism doesn't let them see that yet, perhaps.

Kevin said...

"There are probably multiple leakers."

Each one removed makes the others more obvious.

Brookzene said...

Each one removed makes the others more obvious.

That would normally make sense I guess, except they are replaced by new players, who will also start leaking if the Medici-like intrigues don't get under control. Maybe Kelly can do it. But not if Trump won't let him.

Brookzene said...

For all the rage of the anti-Trumpers, paradoxically, it is they more than anyone who created Trump.

Their narcissism doesn't let them see that yet, perhaps.


I can't figure out where Trump came from. Maybe there's some truth to what you say but I think it probably goes deeper than that. And you might be right about their narcissism, but the narcissism of the Trumpers, not to mention Trump himself, is fairly out of control as well.

Kevin said...

"Basically anyone who isn't an uber ass kisser is a goner!"

So your thesis is that Kelly is just more of an ass kisser than Priebus?

Kelly has been the most effective cabinet member. He's getting promoted.

mockturtle said...

Kevin Says: Interesting Chuck thinks the GOP can exist separately from Trump. Remove the pro-Trump people from the R-column and what do you have? A permanent minority party.

Yep!

Chuck said...

Kevin Says: Interesting Chuck thinks the GOP can exist separately from Trump. Remove the pro-Trump people from the R-column and what do you have? A permanent minority party.

You know how that works? If you don't turn out and vote for Mitt Romney, you get Barack Obama.

The same goes for the other side of the political spectrum; you don't turn out and vote for Hillary, you get Donald Trump.

I turned out, as I always do, I held my nose, and voted for Trump. (As I have reported before, Michigan had "straight-ticket" voting in 2016. All I had to do was to place a mark for a Republican straight ticket. I did not have to register a vote for Trump-Pence, as such.)

I'm not "removing" the pro-Trump people. The rhetoric from the Trump side -- all the baloney about killing the GOPe and the "uniparty" -- is far more hostile than anything I've engaged in.

Bad Lieutenant said...

The same goes for the other side of the political spectrum; you don't turn out and vote for Hillary, you get Donald Trump.

I turned out, as I always do, I held my nose, and voted for Trump.

...

Says you; anyway, assuming true arguendo, you still utterly refused to endorse, encourage to vote for, or in any way support the Republican candidate for President. You spoke against him relentlessly if idly, and worse, with a disrespect you resolutely declined to show the Democrats, your erstwhile enemies.

For a man who is as much of a big deal as you make yourself out to be, that's a blow to your "loyal" party's fairly chosen candidate, and to say "Trump will lose anyway, and I who say so am a Michigan elections expert" is cynical, undemocratic, self-fulfilling, and need I mention, wrong!

And should be humbling to you, but it's not. Among other things it certainly weakens the force of your support for Judge Young, who, FWIW, ranks somewhere in MI Sen GOP primary polling behind Robert Ritchie and Undecided.

Kevin said...

As I have reported before, Michigan had "straight-ticket" voting in 2016. All I had to do was to place a mark for a Republican straight ticket. I did not have to register a vote for Trump-Pence, as such.

Well, good thing they didn't force you to actually check the Trump-Pence box.

Your lifelong Republican streak might have been broken but for a technicality.

Kevin said...

You know how that works? If you don't turn out and vote for Mitt Romney, you get Barack Obama.

So you're for party unity. Except when you're not.

On the basis that it is good for the GOP to get as much distance from Trump as possible.

Look, nobody's being fooled. We all saw Kasich not come to the RNC in his own state. We all saw Cruz fail to endorse and tell people to "vote their conscience". We all saw Rubio fail to speak at the convention because he was too busy restarting his campaign to put national TV time to use. We all saw The National Review attack Trump mercilessly, even after the nomination. We all saw conservative pundit after conservative pundit go on TV and tell people to vote for Hillary. We all saw the Bushes stay away an insinuate they were voting for their friend Hillary. We all saw none of the leading Republicans, outside of a few personal friends, on the campaign trail with Trump.

And we all see the GOPe keeping their distance even today, hoping he implodes so they have a shot at the nomination in 2020. And we see people like Graham, McCain, and others rush to the microphone to distance themselves from his comments at every opportunity.

We see it all. We even see lifelong republicans make post after post about how they just love something that Trump did, but he should receive no credit for doing it.

And after the most outlandish display of back stabbing and party disunity - which continues to this day - you think the Trump voters are going to back the next Republican just because he has an R next to his name?

Get real. 2016 was the true test of party unity. And the Trump voters were shown exactly how for the party was willing to go for their candidate.

Chuck said...

The story in 2016 was not Republican disunity; barely, the Party faithful came together to support the election of the Party's nominee. I personally think that the difference in the late polling, and the final election result (which was not a big difference in any event) was the return, to Trump-support, of many thousands of regular Republican voters who could not bear to support Trump during the primary season. But who voted for Trump in the final binary choice between Trump and a Democrat.

The big story in 2016 was the flat-line response to the Hillary Clinton candidacy. All over, the Democrat numbers in big urban areas failed to turn out for her as they turned out for Obama in 2008 and 2012. The reduced numbers of Democrat voters were staggering. In Michigan, while Trump won the state's 16 electoral votes by a little more than 10,000 votes (the closest presidential race in state electoral history), there were about 300,000 fewer Democrat votes in '16 than in '12. That was the difference.

chickelit said...

What's really suspicious is that Hillary garnered more votes in California in 2016 than Barack Obama did in both 2008 and 2012. Data from Wiki. You can look it up.

How did she do it? California voter fraud?