June 24, 2017

Mark Zuckerberg is in Iowa — running for President? —  and I'm scrutinizing the the rhetoric.

"I'm visiting small towns in Iowa, and just stopped in Wilton, population 2,800," says Zuckerberg, presumably somewhere on the path to running for President. He seems to be wondering why people even live in Wilton, Iowa. I mean, his theme is economic mobility demands geographic mobility. Boldface added:
Research on economic mobility shows that your ability and willingness to move for better opportunity often determines whether your quality of life will be better than your parents'. In many places, people are less likely to move, and that contributes to less upwards economic mobility.

However, in many places in Iowa and across the Midwest, people are raised with values that lead them to be more likely to move to other places for college or jobs, and therefore have greater upwards mobility...

The people I met in Wilton shared these values around mobility....
Wilton is doing better than some other towns in Iowa, and Zuckerberg met some people in Wilton who'd moved to Wilton from somewhere else in Iowa. Zuckerberg — who's lived his life in the Northeast and northern California — has found a way to say Honey, how come you don't move?* to Iowa people without seeming to reject Iowa. But Iowans better at least be willing to move somewhere else in Iowa if they want to escape blame for your downward mobility.

In Z's political rhetoric, willingness to blame the individual is expressed in the positive: You people of the Midwest have values. Your values will get you moving economically, because your values will make you face up to the reality that you need to mobilize out of the Midwest to a thriving economic hotspot like Wilton, Iowa.

I'm making a new tag: Zuckerberg rhetoric. I only make a special "rhetoric" tag for a person when I'm seriously following a run for President and I expect a lot of material.

By the way, Mark Zuckerberg is only 33 years old, not old enough yet to be President, but old enough to run. Anybody who wants to support him will have to give up the argument that it was ridiculous for Trump to think he could begin a political career with the office of President and that a lifetime of experience in business isn't transferable to the presidency. (And Zuckerberg is less than half Trump's age, and his career in business is only 13 years long, and Trump had half a century in business.)
______________________

* The italicized words are the last line of Bob Dylan's "On the Road Again."

136 comments:

rhhardin said...

Mobile dictu.

Mr. Majestyk said...

Hasn't he done enough damage by creating Facebook?

BDNYC said...

Zuckerberg is the most overrated and least impressive of the tech titans. Guys like Bezos, Jobs, Brin/Page, etc., have vision and are true innovators. They are building life-changing technologies and trying to remake the world, as cheesy as it sounds. Zuckerberg built a competitor to MySpace that people liked better and that's about it.

Fen said...

Kill the Masters - Mereen, Game of Thrones

TerriW said...

Social Network didn't do him a lot of favors.

John Borell said...

That Zuckerberg post is full of the most condescending bullshit. God help us.

Quayle said...

One good idea, some very basic and simple software, and a lot of money, neither a genius not a leader leader make.

Well the money will make you a leader of sorts, I guess, because people will follow you for what falls out of your overstuffed pocket.

(And I'm not saying that the software behind Facebook is basic and simple now. But the first software the first platforms were very basic and simple code - they were child's play.)

Tommy Duncan said...

His comments might have been more appropriate in Detroit or Baltimore.

At least attending public schools in Wilton, Iowa will give them a chance in other labor markets.

John Borell said...

Why don't you hicks all move from your small towns, your families, even your values. Come work at Facebook. Sure, we work you like dogs and houses cost a fucking fortune in the big cities, but hey, we have ping pong tables at work, so it will be great. Plus, your family is back in flyover country, so no reason to leave the office anyway.

I don't mind the coastal "elites", I just hate when they want to try to impose their choices on all of us under the theory that they know better.

Fuck all that.

Paul Zrimsek said...

Zuckerberg's first executive order: "The Department of Defense is hereby directed to target each of its nuclear missiles at an American city of at least 50,000 population. Citizens who do not want missiles fired at their city should go into Settings and unclick the 'Nuke my city' box."

Sydney said...

Here's hoping he's too much of a nerd to connect with the majority of people in any meaningful way.

TerriW said...

"Why don't you hicks all move from your small towns, your families, even your values. Come work at Facebook. Sure, we work you like dogs and houses cost a fucking fortune in the big cities, but hey, we have ping pong tables at work, so it will be great. Plus, your family is back in flyover country, so no reason to leave the office anyway."

They could sent remittances back.

Hagar said...

Zuckerberg made a gadzillion dollars by inventing a better mousetrap and selling it, or rather, finding competent people to sell it for him.
That's it.

David Begley said...

I wonder why people live in Northern California but for the jobs. Everything is way more expensive. Gasoline is $1.00 more than in Iowa. The California state government has failed. Real estate prices are out of sight. Congestion. Parking problems. Long commutes. General nuttiness. High taxes. Drug gangs. Did I miss anything?

David Begley said...

Having seen the Iowa campaign up close, Zuckerberg has no chance connecting with voters.

MaxedOutMama said...

Interesting - thanks for highlighting this.

When it comes to "economic mobility", attention should be paid to living costs, esp. high rents in areas in which many of the jobs are found. The living costs are so disproportionate to the wages that many prospective job applicants would receive that it is generally an economically disadvantageous move, and that's one reason why we see less economic mobility. The other large preventive is two-wage families - it's a lot more difficult for them to pull up and move when it would require splitting up the family.

As Ann noted a few days ago, lower wage workers in areas such as San Fran don't have a chance at decent living. Thus the only people who move there are either very young or those who will get extremely high wages. The employment problems people like Zuckerberg have are related far more to the living costs in the areas in which they have their businesses than to labor shortage in the country.

So if the Silicon Valley tycoons want to lower their costs, they should consider moving some locations to other places, in which they could pay much lower wages which would secure their employees a better quality of life. In other words, zoning. The reason TX does better is that zoning rules allow more rapid development.

For families with children, the quality of the schools may force them to live in very expensive neighborhoods in CA, which they may not be able to afford.

Anyway, my hunch is that Zuckerberg is not planning to run for president, but trying to figure out if moving some office locations would pay off for his company. And it would. RE the presidential theory, Zuckerberg would be 35-36 in 2020, and thus eligible to run for president.

TwilightofLiberty.com said...

I didn't leave WI b/c values. I left b/c economic opportunity was limited there plus I got tired of shoveling snow every day for 5 months out of the year. Still hope to move back one day after global warming takes care of the shoveling issue (ha!). Dream is to retire and then get a job in the Packers mailroom. Wife is CA girl, though, so may not be a very realistic dream.

So Zuck is totes wrong. Well, at least in my case.

Michael K said...

He can't even communicate with his neighbors in Hawaii.

Around 200 locals are expected to march on Saturday in protest at a six-foot stone wall Zuckerberg constructed around his 700-acre estate on the island of Kauai.

“People are furious down here with him,” march organiser Joe Hart told Business Insider.


Good start.

William said...

One of the unintended side effects of a Trump presidency is that now every billionaire will look upon himself as the future leader of the free world. The career ladder, however, isn't billionaire to president. The career ladder is billionaire to top ranked reality show host to president. Zuckerberg needs to develop a reality show to lay down a foundation of mass support. I suggest Mistress to the Billionaire. A la "The Bachelor", every week an ensemble of contestants try to win the heart of a billionaire and have a brief, lucrative affair with him.. Zuckerberg doesn't have to be the billionaire. He could be the host and thus coach the contestants and the other billionaires about the proper way to proceed This would give Mark a platform to show his wisdom and humanity.

Kate said...

We've moved many times and lived in many places, almost always for economic reasons. I am that person Zuck admires.

It's very enervating to move. It's also expensive: selling a house without much equity (and buying a new one), paying for moving truck costs, establishing utility service in a new area. I'm sorry, but he's a dick to extol one virtue without counting the downsides. People who stay are an asset, too.

St. George said...

If I were the Democratic Party, I'd run Bruce Springsteen in 2020. Total name recognition. He can fund his own campaign. Image is that of a blue-collar man of the people. Can carry New Jersey. And Nebraska. Appeals to white males of all ages. His rallies would have music. He was born in the USA.

Tongue in cheek, yes. But why not.

EDH said...

He's got a Snowflake in Hell's chance of winning that primary.

tcrosse said...

Zuckerberg wants to source his serfs from Middle America now that the Mexican supply is being restricted.

Bob Boyd said...

At least Zuckerberg is willing to go talk to people in Iowa, not just dismiss them as irredeemable and justify doing so by vilifying them as deplorable. I'll give him credit for that.
Still, not everything is transactional. And when a guy like Zuckerberg shows up and starts Iowasplaining with the words, "Research shows..." it makes nervous.

Bruce Gee said...

Was Z carrying a carpetbag?

M Jordan said...

Zuckerberg's message is in direct contradiction to billionaire Peter Thiel's. Thiel, in his RNC speech, lamented the aggregation of economic power centers into just a few places in the U.S. unlike years gone by when every city was a mini-center for one industry or another. Zucker says, "Go forth, young man" while Thiel says the same thing ... but to business.

Thiel's message is much stronger and much, much more visuionary. The age of economic feudalism must end. The Wilton, Iowas are the future, not the past.

Bob Boyd said...

"Was Z carrying a carpetbag?"

He has a guy to do that for him...a guy who wasn't scared to relocate, most likely.

Earnest Prole said...

Just what we need: another autistic President.

Tommy Duncan said...

For what it's worth, I had a prosperous career with a large Fortune 500 company working from a small town office. The positions I held were considered "mobile" and required Internet access, a phone connection and a nearby airport. In the Internet age it is (obviously) not always necessary to be physically located in a specific locale.

Two of my colleagues moved from California (LA and SF) to Montana and Texas as mobile workers. Another lived in Clinton, Iowa. All three covered accounts in large coastal cities. The relocations to more rural areas provided a lower cost of living and higher quality of life.

Bob Boyd said...

"a chicken in every pot" - Herbert Hoover, Campaign Slogan, 1928

"Research shows Americans willing to adopt values consistent with relocating a pot to Wilton Iowa optimize the likelihood of pot enchickenation."- Mark Zuckerberg, Campaign Slogan, 2017

Fen said...

CNN - In light of yesterday's confirmation by the Washington Post that Mark Zuckerburg is not currently protected by the Secret Service, we would like to clarify that Zuckerburg retains his own private security detail. Usually 3 males armed with semi-automatic handguns, with a max effective range of 200 meters. Each male carries 30 rounds, and the best marksman of the detail sports a long mustache.

Also, an adjusted weather report predicts light wind gusts a 5mph, not 10mph as reported.

James said...

I wonder what his outfit was? To look folksy did he wear a lot of North Face logoed stuff? It all reminds me of a 19th century british aristo's account of going up the Nile.
Oh, and he's also saying very clearly that money is more important than your "values", another winning theme for that part of the country.

Bad Lieutenant said...

the best marksman of the detail sports a long mustache.

Is his name John?

Carol said...

I left LA to work in flyover 40 years ago. There was actually more, better paying music work out in Nevada and beyond than in SoCal if you were just a low level noob like me. I learned a lot and eventually put myself through school sans loans while working in the clubs at night.

My ex BF played guitar and would not leave Hollywood. I think he ended up moving back in with his parents when it got too expensive. Meanwhile, people like Joni Mitchell and Neil Young and Sheryl Crow et al were moving to LA from all over, and making it. The out of towners seemed to have this freshness and energy. They didn't sit around; they made connections.

I think mobility functioned as a great sorting-out of talent and I sorta knew where I fit in from the git go. :(

JML said...

I'll take him a bit more serious when he moves his HQ to a city in fly-over country and learns the real values of the heartland.

Virtually Unknown said...

economic mobility demands geographic mobility

Yeah, that's the ticket. Move it idiots! Don't you know all of your jobs are belongs to illegals? Idiots!

Humperdink said...

A couple of thoughts:

> I thought the Commie-Pinko Dems were into this glass ceiling thingy for wymen.
> A rich white guy from Harvard in the era of BlackLivesMatter?
> "Mr. Zuckerdork, tear down that wall" as alluded to earlier.
> If you thought Ossoff lacked charisma, let us offer you negative charisma.
> A businessman makes billions in one area, now an expert on all things. (gag me)
> When did we lower to age to 17 to qualify for the presidency?

Fen said...

CNN Readers Page, Online

We value your opinion!
(Even those we delete)

A reader asks: "Was his name John?"

Editor: Why yes you old coot. How did you guess? His full name is John Nathan, residing at 2234 Corinth Ave, Rockville, Maryland. He is left-handed, deathly allergic to bee stings, and usually leaves his house at 5:00am, heading east on Corinth Way till he reaches HWY 355.

Michael K said...

"The relocations to more rural areas provided a lower cost of living and higher quality of life."

Several midwestern states wired the entire state with optical cable to facilitate telecommuting. I think South Dakota was one.

tim maguire said...

Bdnyc and some others are exactly right. Zuckerberg is an idiot savant who made some useful tweaks to friendster.

He's not an impressive person and he has already been handsomely rewarded for his "contribution." His continuing fame (and astonishing fortune) is evidence of how empty and vacuous our star fucking media culture is.

tim maguire said...

It occurs to me, Zuckerberg could buy 65 million votes at $100 per vote and still be insanely rich.

Bill said...

Zuckerberg, Sheryl Sandberg, Bill and Melinda Gates: they're all so convinced they know what's best for us.

Diogenes of Sinope said...

Where does Zuckerberg stand on the issues? What does he believe is the appropriate role of government?

Humperdink said...

"Where does Zuckerberg stand on the issues? What does he believe is the appropriate role of government?"

Permit me to offer a wild guess: "See Nanny Doomberg views, former mayor of the Large Apple"

Bob Boyd said...

Here's a great song about going the other way.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ycf5_gRyORQ

Rene Saunce said...

zuckerberg - how depressing

Big Mike said...

Zuckerberg is a prick. He has always been a prick. There never has been a day of his life when he wasn't a prick.

Nevertheless he would be a substantial improvement over most of the current crop of Democrat politicians.

Bad Lieutenant said...


A reader asks: "Was his name John?"

Editor: Why yes you old coot. How did you guess?

John has a long moustache
Wound my heart with a monotonous languor
The chair is against the wall
There is a fire at the insurance agency
...
Radio Londres



His full name is John Nathan, residing at 2234 Corinth Ave, Rockville, Maryland. He is left-handed, deathly allergic to bee stings, and usually leaves his house at 5:00am, heading east on Corinth Way till he reaches HWY 355.

Interestingly, at the midpoint of his walk, at 845 Corinth way, the neighbors keep bees in a hive which is showing signs of disrepair. One broken table leg would probably scatter thousands of angry bees in the air.



But simplify. If Zuckerberg is like these other Millennial punks he's probably got so many allergies that one peanut or one spoon of gluten in his root marm will probably put him Six Feet Under. Particularly if his traveling medical team with the epipens should happen to have a mysterious set of flat tires.

rehajm said...

Shoots his own meat. Iowans might like that.

tcrosse said...

Shoots his own meat

Beats it, too, I bet.

Ken B said...

He's subtly pitching open borders. That's what this mobility move stuff is about. The conclusion will be that flyovers deserve their poverty and low status. The real Americans we will be told are the immigrants. The NY has a columnist who told us this just a week ago.

Mr. D said...

Zuckerberg was in Minnesota the day before and our local media reported his every move. Don't know what his agenda is, but it may not be politics per se.

MountainMan said...

I would be in favor of a amendment to the Constitution to raise the minimum age of President to 45, or maybe even 50. I can't think of any 35 year old I know of that I would want to be President.

walter said...

President T-shirt! He better lock things in while Facebook is still a thing.
A lot of California businesses are embracing economic mobility.
A glut of eager/desperate/dreamy film crew folks there results in production companies and producers tabling depressed day rates when they come to flyover.
They usually start with "L.A. production needs a.." followed by "Well that's the going rate in L.A."
Go home.

Phil 3:14 said...

Gosh, Zuck getting no love here!

Is there a tech titan that Althousians admire?

AReasonableMan said...

M Jordan said...
The age of economic feudalism must end. The Wilton, Iowas are the future, not the past.


The increasing predominance of large urban centers is not a form of feudalism. It is driven almost entirely by market forces. It is a trend that is seen worldwide. This doesn't mean it is a good thing, but the cities are winning in competition with more rural areas pretty much everywhere.

Jupiter said...

"This doesn't mean it is a good thing, but the cities are winning in competition with more rural areas pretty much everywhere."

Winning what?

mockturtle said...

Was Z carrying a carpetbag?

Good one, Bruce.

Jupiter said...

Zuck seems to have overlooked the cause of his own success. If you had to live in LA to use Facebook, how big would Facebook be?

madAsHell said...

Meanwhile, people like Joni Mitchell and Neil Young and Sheryl Crow et al were moving to LA from all over, and making it.

They had all done well in the hinterlands BEFORE they sold their songs in LA.

AReasonableMan said...

Jupiter said...
Winning what?


Wealth, power, educational status, even health since they cleaned up the environment.

Tommy Duncan said...

Bob Boyd, that's one of my favorite Jerry Jeff Walker songs. Good stuff.

Roy Lofquist said...

Wisdom from my father: There are two ways to be rich - have more or want less.

Michael K said...

"the cities are winning in competition with more rural areas pretty much everywhere. "

The cities were a population "sink"until the invention of proper sewers and the beginning of public health.

More people kept moving to the cities for jobs and dying there. The only reason they did not lose population was that there were new residents moving in all the time to replace the dead.

We are nearing the same phenomenon.

In Britain, the middle class is moving to France as they retire. The wealthy move to the south coast.

London is there to make enough money to get out.

New York, Los Angeles and San Francisco are moving toward that phenomenon. San Francisco has very pretty scenery so it will survive longest.

mockturtle said...

One thing that should be done is to decentralize the federal government. There is no need in this age of telecommunication to have every department and bureau concentrated in D.C. Flyover country would be a great place to plant these departments and would increase national security, too.

Cacimbo Cacimbo said...

Obama and Trump would be excellent televangelists if they choose.You can learn better public speaking skills but the special something that BO and Trump share is a natural talent. Reagan and Clinton also had it. Neither Bush, nor their bestie HRC did. Zuckerberg has more of the Bush/HRC speaking ability. That is a massive hurdle to overcome.

mockturtle said...

This may surprise Mr. Zuckerberg but economic mobility isn't everyone's goal. Living 'better than your parents'? Why? Were they out scrounging for bread and begging on the streets? There are values more important than wealth but I'm sure those values would escape Mr. Zuckerberg's attention.

Jupiter said...

Winning what?

"Wealth, power, educational status, even health since they cleaned up the environment."

I am frequently contacted by recruiters offering me jobs in the Bay Area (I'm a programmer). I ask them if the compensation includes a house, since the measly 250K they are offering is not enough to buy one. It turns out that no, the "wealth" I would gain by moving to the city would not be enough to support my current lifestyle. But as noted above, there would be a ping-pong table. Free pizza on Fridays.

walter said...

Yes, mock...and access/competition in education could make education far less expensive and far more flexible.
There are similar institutional protectors who don't want either.

Cacimbo Cacimbo said...

I love the idea of spreading the federal government bureaucracy around the country.

AReasonableMan said...

mockturtle said...
One thing that should be done is to decentralize the federal government. There is no need in this age of telecommunication to have every department and bureau concentrated in D.C.


If this were really true wouldn't it apply equally to finance or tech or any other industry that centralizes in cities? Clearly urbanization provides some benefits for most institutions. It is not just the workings of the organization but also the ability to attract the most talented people. Someone who might be willing to work for the government in DC, with the benefits that the city provides, might be much less willing to do so in a rural area with a weaker infrastructure. In particular, people worry about getting the best educational opportunities for their children.

Cacimbo Cacimbo said...

@ St George
Bruce's fan base are now mostly Republican, he just doesn't know it. Walled off in a rich enclave for decades he has completely lost touch with his roots. Now he pals around with the Bloomberg crowd as their kids compete in the horse riding competitions which only the most wealthy can afford to partake.

AReasonableMan said...

walter said...
Yes, mock...and access/competition in education could make education far less expensive and far more flexible.


Higher education is one thing that remains somewhat decentralized. There are good universities in places like Madison or Iowa City that would otherwise be very small centers.

Jupiter said...

The last tech Megacorp I worked for filed a brief against Trump's travel ban, claiming that an untrammeled flow of immigrants is essential to their economic survival. What amazed me was the number of college-educated white kids who said they were "proud" that the company they worked for was opposing Trump's xenophobic executive order. I am wondering how proud the stupid little fucks will be when the next boatload of indentured H1-B's bump them out of their cubicles. They can go sit by the freeway on-ramp in a folding chair, with a "Will Work For Ping Pong" sign. Or maybe they can volunteer for Zuckerberg's campaign.

Cacimbo Cacimbo said...

"Someone who might be willing to work for the government in DC, with the benefits that the city provides, might be much less willing to do so in a rural area with a weaker infrastructure"

Don't these government workers share the willingness and ability to move for opportunity that Zuckerberg is promoting? After all there are benefits to living outside cities.

mockturtle said...

ARM conjectures: If this were really true wouldn't it apply equally to finance or tech or any other industry that centralizes in cities? Clearly urbanization provides some benefits for most institutions. It is not just the workings of the organization but also the ability to attract the most talented people. Someone who might be willing to work for the government in DC, with the benefits that the city provides, might be much less willing to do so in a rural area with a weaker infrastructure. In particular, people worry about getting the best educational opportunities for their children.

Yes, it is indeed clear that those running our government in DC are 'the most talented people'.

AReasonableMan said...

Jupiter said...
It turns out that no, the "wealth" I would gain by moving to the city would not be enough to support my current lifestyle.


You can't really know this for certain. Once in the urban network other opportunities might present themselves that gradually compound resulting in a net gain.

I have a friend who is a programmer who works from home in an exurban setting for a large corporation. She makes good money but she would definitely have made more if she had lived in a city and competed in that talent pool. In her case it was a good choice since she doesn't like people, but it does limit her career.

chickelit said...

Sugar Mountain* is staunchly H1B positive and he would hit a major speed bump should he decide to run for POTUS. I think he's just out there gathering facts.
______________________
* Zuckerberg means sugar mountain in German.

Bob Boyd said...

Tommy Duncan said...
"Bob Boyd, that's one of my favorite Jerry Jeff Walker songs."

Jerry Jeff Walker's version is terrific. It's the one I heard first years ago and always think of as thee song 'LA Freeway'.
But I found that video and liked it. Guy Clark wrote the song.

walter said...

ARM, I'm talking about utilizing ubiquitous online tech to liberate students from brick and mortar colleges...allowing actual educators to compete for students on a class by class basis...especially for intro courses where there is very little interaction with profs. I think it's crazy that kids with their noses glued to their phones will rail against the cost of higher education and not see this.

walter said...

By the way, there is also the phenomenon of career oriented younger workers pursuing big city opportunities returning to smaller cities and towns once they have children..often specifically for better schools.

Michael K said...

ARM has no frame of reference for life outside an anthill city.

"I ask them if the compensation includes a house, since the measly 250K they are offering is not enough to buy one."

My daughter was being recruited by Apple. She was wondering what to do if the job materialized. She was thinking of buying a small motorhome to live in and then had to think about where to park it.

Jupiter said...

"Leading telecommuting centers tend to be home to many well-educated, older and wealthy residents. Communities such as San Clemente, Newport Beach and Encinitas in Southern California, as well as Boca Raton in Florida, all have telecommuting shares over 10%."

http://www.latimes.com/opinion/op-ed/la-oe-kotkin-telecommute-20170623-story.html

Humperdink said...

"Gosh, Zuck getting no love here!

Is there a tech titan that Althousians admire?"

I haven't seen any. Why you ask? It might be: I am rich, therefore I am smart (or at least smarter than you).

Or how about this: Take a peek at their values and positions on various issues.

Zuckerdork is the hip version of Warren Buffoon.

Bill Peschel said...

What Zuckerberg is neglecting to tell the rubes in Iowa is that rent-seeking by corporations and politicians did a lot to destroy their towns.

It's a question no one with any platform is willing to posit: What do we gain by hollowing out the flyover zone by encouraging plants to move overseas? How can you sell goods at lower cost to people who can no longer afford to buy them, or don't even have a need for them?

And economists fail to calculate the destruction of the human psyche that comes when we break apart families from their communities, when they lose their support groups that can provide economic and emotional aid, a sense of continuity and culture.

Humans have always moved somewhere, but usually because of some local disaster such as the Irish potato famine, or the Oklahoma dust bowl. The majority of the US was content to stay in the places they grew up in.

Maybe I'm more sensitive to it because my family left Warren, Ohio, in 1970, ahead of the collapsing steel industry. My wife's father brought home a German war wife to Dover, Del., because he didn't want to go back to North Dakota. We survived (actually did better than if we stayed in Ohio), but we were sacrificed our family connections, our sense of place. We're isolated and alone, and personally I find it depressing.

AReasonableMan said...

mockturtle said...
Yes, it is indeed clear that those running our government in DC are 'the most talented people'.


Things can always get worse. Have you visited your local DMV recently?

AReasonableMan said...

walter said...
By the way, there is also the phenomenon of career oriented younger workers pursuing big city opportunities returning to smaller cities and towns once they have children..often specifically for better schools.


My observation is that they more commonly migrate to the suburbs or exurbs rather than small towns. Not saying this doesn't happen just not that common. I moved to the exurbs for my kids. Not sure, even now, that this was the right decision but I am happy having not having to commute in or to the city.

David Begley said...

Jupiter:

I too have wondered about why young people in tech want open borders. The only thing I can figure is that they are friends with H1b people and they know nothing about labor supply/demand and wages.

The Left says, "What's the matter with Kansas?" I say, "Why doesn't the Left practice economic self-interest?"

JML said...

My son works for Epic near Madison, WI. He is doing well, loves the area and is thinking what he can do when he gets burned out. He is not considering any coastal region, but thinks any place with wifi with-in a few hours of a decent airport is good. Then again, he just bought a house in Belleville, so I'm thinking he will stay there for quite some time. He loves the cold, so winter's have been good with him so far, and his quality of life is fantastic, though he quickly ditched his rotary push mower and hasn't yet had to shovel his own driveway.

Paco Wové said...

This comment on one of Steve Sailer's blog posts seems appropriate here:

"Just as the prosperous decades following the Second World War and the concomitant growth of large middle class in what used to be the U.S.A turned out to have been anomalous hiccough in history, so too will the dramatic freedoms and democracy enjoyed from the Enlightenment (with the concomitant revolutions in America and France, and their progeny…) prove to be an anomalous hiccough in human history as acc[e]lerating technology (especially artificial intelligence) realigns things to the previous order of tee[m]ing hordes of oppressed peasants and a small, entrenched cadre of bastards lording it over everyone else in obscene opulence."

Jupiter said...

"The only thing I can figure is that they are friends with H1b people and they know nothing about labor supply/demand and wages."

They learned their values from smug liars with secure government jobs, and so far they are doing OK on the lowest rung of the ladder. As they get older, they will start to notice that there is writing on the walls. And on the doors, the ones that slam in your face.

Jupiter said...

Of course, if Zuck had his way, he would deport anyone born in the USA who was unwilling to work for him at slave wages.

JAORE said...

My wife and I were regularly offered promotional opportunities to D.C. Merit system, of course. But when an Associate Administrator calls and says we'd really like to see you apply for THIS job, and he's the selecting official.....

Would likely have resulted in at least two promotions and much bigger retirement checks.

No thanks.

I'd gone to D.C. once for a promotion. But only with a promise to return me to a field assignment in 2-5 years. That was the only way they could entice the best of the crop to move to headquarters. (I got out in 14 months.)

And we were not alone. It is a huge struggle to get people to relocate to D.C.

ALP said...

Living near Tacoma, south of Seattle - you'd think I'd be able to work there. Its the third largest city in the state of WA, after all. But no, all jobs seem to be converging on a handful of elite cities like Seattle, which sucks the air out of the room when it comes to jobs. Traffic gets worse, housing gets more expensive...and every day another tool for doing things remotely is invented - why are so many of us doing this commute thing? You don't have to be in flyover country to get stuck in the gaping maw of the nearest large city. There are so many smaller communities in the area I'd love to live AND work in - but opportunities are simply not there.

It appears that while large cities offer much opportunity, they reduce choice in the communities surrounding them. Want a job? Suck up city life with its crowds, traffic, and shady concrete canyons.

Left Bank of the Charles said...

I think this is the first time Althouse has noticed Mark Zuckerberg's Year of Travel. Or still not noticing?

Zuckerberg is getting at something about Iowa, perhaps true of the Midwest in general. There are lots of mobile elites around Boston. But it does often feel like the ordinary Boston person has the expectation of staying in the town or neighorhood where they grew up. That's not true of ordinary people in Iowa.

AReasonableMan said...

ALP said...
It appears that while large cities offer much opportunity, they reduce choice in the communities surrounding them.


Brooklyn being the classic example. A proud independent city up until the 1890s it was reduced to a rump by proximity to Manhattan. Only starting to revive now as Manhattan spreads out into Brooklyn.

Darrell said...

If everyone ARM knows and likes is deported, I could live with that.

Sebastian said...

Sorry, Mark. It's Oprah's turn. Unless, of course, you come out as a black female.

LilyBart said...

Zuckerberg is the most overrated and least impressive of the tech titans.

Agreed. Plus Facebook is really a marginal product. A

Michael said...

ARM
"Brooklyn being the classic example. A proud independent city up until the 1890s it was reduced to a rump by proximity to Manhattan. Only starting to revive now as Manhattan spreads out into Brooklyn."

This is as weird as it is wrong. The incorporation of Brooklyn into one of five NY boroughs did not cause it to become a "rump" . The geography did not change one iota. And Brooklyn has not only now "starting to revive" Brooklyn has been remaking itself for twenty years.

AReasonableMan said...

Bill Peschel said...
economists fail to calculate the destruction of the human psyche that comes when we break apart families from their communities, when they lose their support groups that can provide economic and emotional aid, a sense of continuity and culture.
We survived (actually did better than if we stayed in Ohio), but we were sacrificed our family connections, our sense of place. We're isolated and alone, and personally I find it depressing.


I moved a lot. It was disruptive and you do lose connections to people and places but moving also brings new knowledge and opportunity. There are always trade-offs.

Once written, twice... said...

Zuckerberg built his own company from nothing, while Trump was handed his business to him by his father. Zuckerberg has never gone bankrupt, Trump has multiple times. As far as we know, Zuckerberg pays his bills, Trump has a long career of stiffing employees and small business owners who he owes money to. Unlike Trump, Zuckerberg has been a model of philanthropy. Zuckerberg can speak in complete sentences and seems like a truly decent guy, while Trump is a buffoonish asshole.

Once written, twice... said...

I think Zuckerberg could really get under Trump's skin. Also, how much could Zuckerberg use Facebook to further his candidacy? Citizens United suggests a lot.

AReasonableMan said...

Michael said...
The incorporation of Brooklyn into one of five NY boroughs did not cause it to become a "rump" .


Brooklyn definitely became a rump due to its proximity to Manhattan, which was my point. Incorporation was not the cause but it is roughly the point in time when Brooklyn began to decline as an independent entity.

And Brooklyn has not only now "starting to revive" Brooklyn has been remaking itself for twenty years.

It has an awful long way to go. Only recently has it become much of a destination, rather than a refuge from the high rents of Manhattan. I am not a fan of Brooklyn. Thanks to a century of neglect it is a mess. Difficult to get to and even more difficult to move around. When Trump talked about infrastructure Brooklyn was the first place I thought of that might benefit.

Michael said...

Once written....
Zuckerberg would be a fantastic Dem candidate. It is early days but I would expect if you offered you could find a place in his budding political apparatus. Because as you know people cannot get enough of Facebook and it would be an easy medium to harness to his cause. You could get a diplomatic post if you impress.
But, of course, if he ran as a Republican he would be the original dumbass who stole the idea from classmates and then cheated them out of their rightful due.

Michael said...

ARM
You have obviously not been in a Manhattan subway if you think first of Brooklyn infrastructure whatever you might mean by that term. I don't think you have spent much time in any of NY's boroughs outside Manhattan if you believe that there has been a "century of neglect" in Brooklyn. LOL

AReasonableMan said...

Michael said...
you have spent much time in any of NY's boroughs outside Manhattan if you believe that there has been a "century of neglect" in Brooklyn.


And you apparently never drive on the BQE. Even with the recent upgrade of the Kosciuszko Bridge it is still a mess. A large fraction of the housing stock in Brooklyn, both private and public, is crappy. Cheaply built and now overpriced. But the place is so hopelessly congested that it is prohibitively expensive to do any meaningful kind of urban renewal. Most of the borough is now frozen at a low level and cannot be affordably upgraded.

I don't dislike Brooklyn, but after so much neglect I can't see any way that it recovers to be a place where most people might want to live by choice. Some people like it, and some parts are nice and moving forward, but on average not an appealing place to live.

Bob Matthews said...

I'm not sure I could support for president a person who views people as a commodity to be exploited for profit.

AllenS said...

Trump builds buildings. Facebook is what?

Bob Matthews said...

> Of course, if Zuck had his way, he would deport anyone born in the USA who was unwilling to work for him at slave wages.

Just an aside. Facebook has a reputation for paying the highest wages among the big five software companies - the main reason being that it doesn't have the coolness factor of the other four (Amazon, Apple, Google, MS).

Michael said...

ARM
Jump on any real estate site and check out the price of Brooklyn real estate. I avoid the BQE as do residents of Brooklyn. For them it is not a road to anywhere.

Once written, twice... said...

Trump's own campaign team, including his Jared Kushner, attribute their late campaign targeted ad buys on Facebook as being crucial to his win.

tcrosse said...

Trump's own campaign team, including his Jared Kushner, attribute their late campaign targeted ad buys on Facebook as being crucial to his win.

Not the Russians ?

Once written, twice... said...

Facebook is the world's largest platform for bringing people together to communicate and interact. Zuckerberg is the equivalent of Alexander Graham Bell.

What, are you people not capitalists? There is a reason why Zuckerberg is one of the world's richest individuals. The market values his work as such. And he built it from nothing in just the last dozen years.

I will bet that four out of five of you have checked your Facebook account in the last twenty four hours.

Once written, twice... said...

Who knows if Zuckerberg is interested in running for president. If he is then it would be interesting to see how he does as a candidate.

But given that he is indisputably one of the great industalists of the past fifty years, he would automatically be considered a serious candidate.

Mountain Maven said...

A privileged Aspergergy savant with the morals and common touch of a female Clinton won't do well in flyover country.

robother said...

Mark Zuckerberg "one of the great industalists of the past fifty years..."

Indeed he is. When it comes to importing H1 visa serfs from the Indus River civilization, he is at the top of the list.

iowan2 said...

Mark Zuckerberg "one of the great industalists of the past fifty years..."

Who are the top 5, and how is it measured.?

Bill Peschel said...

ARM says "There are always trade-offs." [from moving]

That there is. If we'd stayed in Warren (Outer Youngstown, that is), I probably would have gone into the military like my brothers, just to get out of there.

My brother went back about 15 years later to visit. He reported that nothing had changed. No new buildings, nothing. He even saw the same posters in the neighborhood drugstore window (I assume much faded by then).

Mom and Dad had four kids. We're in Charlotte, NC, Hershey, Pa., Phoenix and Seattle. Last time we all saw each other in person was in '99, for mom's funeral.

(To balance the record, let me add that we seem to be one of those families who have trouble staying in touch. Before she died, Mom told me that one of her siblings actually passed through North Carolina on their way to the coast, and did not stop to see her. She found out about this later. I joke that it's like we were raised by shellfish.)

AReasonableMan said...

Bill Peschel said...
We're in Charlotte, NC, Hershey, Pa., Phoenix and Seattle.


My sister lives on a different continent, and my wife's family lives on a third continent. If my parents hadn't moved when I was young I might still live in the same neighborhood. But after two moves you don't have the same sense of belonging to one place. Any given place seems pretty much as good as the next (except Brooklyn).

Birkel said...

If people mention Citizens United in a discussion about Zuckerberg using the corporation he leads for his personal political run, they have self-identified as a moron. That comment made me sad for the writer. Pitiful.

Moving is often the harder option short-term and the better option long-term. Many people lack the capital to move and the discipline to save to free themselves for a move.

For many people renting is a better option because they can more easily chase opportunities without a mortgage and home sale to consider. All the same, many people would prefer to live in their own home and a lot of government policy is centered on home ownership.

Grab your carry on.

Once written, twice... said...

Concerning Citizens United--unfortunately, sometimes you have to play by the rules as they are written...

Birkel said...

That case does not support the point you are trying to make. Your recitation of Leftist talking points without useful information makes you look every bit the unintelligent person many of us assumed you were. There are other cases that matter and would be relevant but you're too ill-educated to know what they are.

NOTE: I'm not about to help with your education. I'm going to point and laugh.

Once written, twice... said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Once written, twice... said...

Let's say over the next three and a half years Facebook decided to "get into" the political documentary business and made a film called "Trump: The Movie" that was extremely critical of The Donald. Lets say that Facebook made sure it was highly promoted on their media platform. Would any court issue an injunction? I think that would be prior restraint. No?

Once written, twice... said...

Maybe go as far as making sure pro-Trump content was restricted on their news platform...

Birkel said...

Hypotheticals are fun. Let's assume you know anything about what you're typing. No, that's a bridge too far. As creative as I am, it strains credulity.

Did you find the relevant cases yet? Or like the well-trained parrot when asked a question to which no answer has been taught, do you reveal yourself as unable to communicate in the English language?

Once written, twice... said...

Birkel, Ann has asked that we refrain from personal attacks. Otherwise, your comments are without substance.

Birkel said...

It is not a personal attack to note that you are ill-informed. It's a statement of fact. I'm not here to educate you. It's not my job.

My posts do have substance. The substance is your reference to a case that is unrelated and there are others that are related of which you are not aware. Educate yourself and try again.

Your talking points added nothing of substance. They were irrelevant. They were badly connected to the point you believed you were making. The shibboleth of Citizens United won't work. Learn the law or stick to your talking points and get mocked.

Once written, twice... said...

Birkel, I am a professor of constitutional law.

chickelit said...

Let's say over the next three and a half years Facebook decided to "get into" the political documentary business and made a film called "Trump: The Movie" that was extremely critical of The Donald. Lets say that Facebook made sure it was highly promoted on their media platform. Would any court issue an injunction? I think that would be prior restraint. No?

That would disqualify Zuckerberg from the Office. The Emollients Clause would come down on him faster than you can say Facebookaki

chickelit said...

Let's say over the next three and a half years CNN decided to "get into" the political documentary business and made a film called "Trump: The Movie" that was extremely critical of The Donald. Lets say CNN made sure it was highly promoted on their media platform. Would any court issue an injunction? I think not. Would CCN suffer viewership loss? I think not.

chickelit said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
chickelit said...

Mark Zuckerberg 'one of the great industalists of the past fifty years...'

Zuckerberg doesn't make or sell anything physical. Basically, he snitches on members, selling their personal information.

So glad I never joined.

chickelit said...

Once written, twice... said...Birkel, I am a professor of constitutional law.

You really should not have shared that personal info. Now I'm thinking you were that nasty commenter (using a different name) from about 10 years ago -- the one who claimed to be a colleague of Althouse but who came off as a jealous busybody.

Birkel said...

I congratulate you for the job you hold. One wishes you were able to use that training for more than sophistry. The evidence toward that point is thin.

What you have displayed is bigotry in service to partisanship. If you can do better, perhaps you should try. I won't hold my breath.