The driver of a small truck steered his vehicle toward a crowd of people and then rammed it into a department store in the heart of Stockholm on Friday afternoon, killing at least two people, the police and local news outlets reported, in what was believed to be a terrorist attack.And more news about the terrorism-by-vehicle in London last month. The woman we saw in video jumping or falling off the bridge and into the River Thames — Andreea Cristea — has died.
She was 31 years old and an architect, and her boyfriend said he was going to propose to her that day, his birthday.
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279 comments:
1 – 200 of 279 Newer› Newest»The Relgion of Peace™ continues to bring death and destruction to the West. It needs to be geographically contained as it will never reform. Just wait until the Sunni v Shia gang wars break out in the suburbs of Paris and in Birmingham.
Sharia law is a part of Islam no matter what they say.
No fucking muslim refugees or immigration. None.
Any here and not citizens? Out.
Period.
Islam is incompatible with Western Civilization.
Oh, but the mayor of London said the citizens of major cities just have to accept the odd terrorist attack every so often. Why, it's just an unpleasant feature of 21st century urban living - like traffic jams or street noise. Obama said you have a greater chance of getting hit by lightening. Tell that to that that young lady's fiancé.
When pols say things like that what they are telling you is that your life is expendable.
Imagine there's no Islam.
It isn't hard to do.
Death count in Sweden's vehicle attack now five, according to The Telegraph.
Exiled observes: Oh, but the mayor of London said the citizens of major cities just have to accept the odd terrorist attack every so often. Why, it's just an unpleasant feature of 21st century urban living - like traffic jams or street noise. Obama said you have a greater chance of getting hit by lightening. Tell that to that that young lady's fiancé.
When pols say things like that what they are telling you is that your life is expendable.
Why, oh why, would Londoners have elected a Muslim for mayor, anyway?
I hate these Islamophobic comments. Up your game. I get the feeling some of you are just bad faith commenters trying to sabotage my blog. You need to improve. I will be deleting some of the comments that fall below what is a pretty low standard. Try to get above it.
Ann, are you implying that terrorism has 'nothing to do with Islam'?
Nothing like a beer truck smashing shoppers in Stockholm, or an SUV crushing London pedestrians, to concentrate the mind wonderfully.
These acts can't be undone, can't be explained away, can't be forgotten. And won't be forgiven.
This is how you get more Trump.
CAIR
Ann:
Look at the evidence. Did you forget 9/11? Radical Islam is waging war on the West. They have thousands with guns and bombs and will use them. If they had their way, many radical Islamists would blow up the University of Wisconsin. Bomb St. John's at Creighton.
You may not hate Sharia supremacists but they hate you and want to destroy our way of life.
Read Andy McCarthy at NRO. Wake up.
Allen S. rightly asserted: Islam is incompatible with Western Civilization.
Ann, do you deny this?
I would never, ever try to sabotage your blog--I LOVE your blog!--and I never comment in bad faith. But sometimes the truth can't just be swept under the rug [to use a really trite cliché].
Drove by the San Bernardino Regional Center yesterday on my way to lunch with a business associate, whose office is around the corner. I still find it surreal that my hometown is now on a list of places where terrorists mass-murdered people, in this case fellow Americans. Obama called it workplace violence. I feel better with Trump in charge now, and so far his actions (and sometimes even his Tweets) have increased my confidence in his ability to govern wisely.
Sweden has despicably small-minded leaders and a press that is even more monolithic than our own. If not for the online The Local, there would be no accurate reporting of the sexual attacks, antisemitism and grotesque violence visited upon their country by refugees. People who endlessly criticize American actions (cough ARM cough) have no idea how rigid social structure is in the supposed Nordic Paradises. I've worked in Sweden for years and found their society shockingly intrusive, antithetical to ideas like individuality, and suffused with an entitlement to criticize those who do not follow the "usual" Swedish path. That's why so many entrepreneurs leave Sweden to come here and succeed: no one to tell then they are wrong to do so and enforce jantelagen on them.
But then they were exceedingly open to "refugees" and allowed them to draw Swedish welfare, and were so "hands off" that the Muslims started enforcing sharia wherever they could concentrate enough to have an effect. The whole experiment is out of control now. It was already chafing many way back in the early 2000s so that almost to a man, my Swedish colleagues opposed Turkey joining the EU under the complaint that "we don't want a Muslim country with non-liberal policies to join our community." What now? What do you after you've let a bunch of foreigners push generations of Jews out of Malmo? How do you maintain a social-welfare state when you have people drawing a check but refusing to become Swedish or pull their own weight? How's your lagom now?
The cows are on the ice and cracking through.
I live in NYC. I occasionally walk in tourist rich and rich tourist areas. Whilst doing so, the thought has occurred to me that it wouldn't take a lot of ingenuity or tactical skill for one of the passing vehicles to swerve and cause a lot of death and misery. I'm not insanely Islamophobic, but even as you ask people to examine their attitudes towards Islam, thoughtful people--preferentially thoughtful Muslims--should be asking why this religion generates so many psycho killers........Any efforts towards Mideast peace are hampered by the fact that the region is populated by psycho killers. Muslims are not, by and large, psycho killers but they have more tolerance for psycho killers than for Mohammed cartoonists.
"I hate these Islamophobic comments"
I hate lame name calling. I have very rational fear the followers of Moe.
With all due respect, Ann, do you want us to "up our games" by ignoring the one common thread that unites these terrorist acts? The religion and ideology shared by the murderers in London, Stockholm, Nice, Paris, San Bernardino, Orlando, Boston and well, let's not forget New York?
A phobia is an irrational fear. I think you'll need to establish that fear (and/or righteous anger) of Islam in the West is irrational before you can dismiss it as a phobia. Which would be a heck of a challenge to meet IMO. What besides platitudes could be marshaled to make that case?
These are attracting less and less media attention. Or, at least more routine attention. There is no search for Larger Meaning. Just isolated incidents representing a new normal that, we're told, we just have to accept.
Snipped from PowerLine Blog:
Not sure why the earliest reports didn’t include the fact, but three armed men jumped out of the truck and fired into the crowd. Obviously a terrorist attack, presumably Islamic.
Until we hear that someone shouted Allahu Akbar we can't be sure. Of course.
I've walked down that street. The main train station is under that block. My heart aches for Sweden because of the terror it engenders. Thankfully the loss of life was smaller than bombings and shootings elsewhere, but the act itself hurts society.
Until we hear that someone shouted Allahu Akbar we can't be sure. Of course.
Even then, it is attributable to 'mental illness'.
President Xi Jinping's Statement after Stockholm attack...
I rearry rike the Swedish meatballs.
I am Laslo.
Is 'trite cliché' redundant?
President Xi Jinping's Statement after Stockholm attack...
I rearry rike the Swedish meatballs.
Now, Laslo...don't be sinophobic!
Blogger Ann Althouse said...
I hate these Islamophobic comments. Up your game. I get the feeling some of you are just bad faith commenters trying to sabotage my blog. You need to improve. I will be deleting some of the comments that fall below what is a pretty low standard. Try to get above it.
4/7/17, 10:50 AM
How do you see us improving? At some point all the smart things have been said about a topic and the killing begins. Oh, that has already started. Your normally thoughtful readers are generally at the end of their patience with the tree that bears the poison fruit. People tire of measured responses and stiff upper lips.
"The driver of a small truck steered his vehicle toward a crowd of people and then rammed it into a department store"
It seems like the NYT is trying to mimimize this attack. They make it sound like one guy in a compact pickup just swerved at some people then drove into a building. It wasn't a small truck and he did plough into a crowd of pedestrians.
exiledonmainstreet said...
Oh, but the mayor of London said the citizens of major cities just have to accept the odd terrorist attack every so often.
I will happily accept the odd terrorist attack as soon as the mayor accepts the odd political assassination, and reduces their level of police protection to that of the general public's.
Until then, fuck off.
Our lot has 400+ years of experience with all this.
The juramentado phenomenon is ancient and well documented, and unfortunately typical.
There are cultural factors in how people deal with alienation, depression and mental illness, there are fashions among the insane. Unfortunately the cultural programming of Islam is such that these can all be resolved by becoming a shahid, and this tendency is ancient.
As bad is the jihad phenomenon, where entire communities, subcultures or regions will get worked up into a similar state. This is a recurring theme in Islamic history across cultures, and of course western colonial history. There are any number of mad mullahs and Ikhwan raiders and mahdis and religiously-justified pirates against which were send numberless punitive expeditions and required the construction of countless fortifications.
The modern Taliban and ISIS are just recent cases. The current Saudi state, just one example, is the result of several rounds of this since the 18th century.
You arent going to fix this easily, nor without changing Islam.
The only successful cases I know of are Shiites - really, in spite of the intense martyrdom complex, they have a deep respect for their scholarly Imamate and will very rarely do anything without explicit permission from the heirarchy. In all these western terrorism cases there hasnt been a single Shiite that I know of. That doesnt mean that Iran, say, has not cooperated cynically with Sunni terrorists, but all that is a matter of state, not religion.
Other Islamic sects such as the Ahmadis have diverged greatly from the textual constraints of the Koran/Hadith/Sunnah and become rather syncretic. The extreme case is Baha'i. These are all as far as I know pacifistic religions. If all Islam were Ahmadi there would be no tragedies and no religious controversy.
And there are the Ibadis, such as most of Oman. A good friend worked in Oman for several years and they seem a very reasonable and tolerant lot, without a jihad/shahid tradition.
But that leaves everyone with the majority, Sunnis of several flavors, and the problem of what to do with them. Back in the old country the palliative solution has been an extended and often bloody military occupation.
Just isolated incidents representing a new normal that, we're told, we just have to accept.
This is one of the desired results that the terrorist want. Make you afraid. Make these types of killings common and if not accepted, make them commonplace. Make you change your normal lives. Make you dance to their tune. Make it the new normal to live behind barricades, be felt up in public just in case you might be carrying a bomb, keep you in at night.
All this things, IF you cede to them, give power to the terrorists who then are ready to take it to the next steps. You don't want to know what those are, but if you are curious....you can look at ISIS.
There are ways to fight back. I doubt that people who have been raised in "polite" Western Civilization are ready to take those steps. We are told we are phobic. We are told we are paranoid, racists.
Nevertheless....at some point, self preservation must take first place over being politically correct or being "polite".
It's been awhile since we've seen the emotional Althouse. I was hoping she had upped her game by now. I assume she'll be taking in Muslim refugees soon.
I wonder if she believes that some commenters dislike of Islam is just based on religious differences? What other reason could there be?
Maybe she should send her gay son on a fact-finding trip to, say, Iran. Perhaps he could figure out why so many people here are concerned about Islam and its followers.
I always comment in good faith.
Maybe Ann is afraid of a fatwa being issued against her and her family. It could happen! Maybe she found out she was on ISIS Hit List.
"Blogger Ann Althouse said...
I hate these Islamophobic comments. Up your game. I get the feeling some of you are just bad faith commenters trying to sabotage my blog. You need to improve. I will be deleting some of the comments that fall below what is a pretty low standard. Try to get above it."
Presumably, you're trolling your own blog with this comment. You put up a post about a Muzzie shitbag slaughtering innocent people but don't expect your commenters to be harshly critical of the source of said Muzzie shitbag's insanity? It's like posting about the Holocaust and discouraging people from commenting on German government in the 1940's.
Just like the Irish had to live with The Troubles and supported by the likes of the Kennedys? I don't think so e Irish were so fond of Americans and the fundraising that went on.
This goes to the risk-reward decision people make.
Or the broken window choice.
It's not like cities started putting up cement planters or balls where they never were before or made other rules to follow.
I mean Obama did let that FALN member out.
But the still won't let Manson out.
Weird.
US frackers are bringing OPEC to its knees. I wonder how that's going to shake things up? Countries not economucally diversified. Money stops flowing. Peeps get testy.
I saw a picture of the truck- it was not a "small truck". The media continue to discredit themselves with almost every single thing they put up now.
Damn "truck violence"...
I hate these Islamophobic comments.
What other conclusion does the evidence support?
I love it when she yells at the splooge stooges here.
Trump should avoid commenting about this until tomorrow. There's enough other stuff going on (China meeting; Syria strike; Gorsuch confirmation).
But then tomorrow when commenting on something else he should segue into it with "Last night in Sweden...."
Point made.
This crime received little notice here but on Tuesday, an elderly Orthodox Jewish woman was fatally stabbed and pushed from the window of her apartment in Paris. The accused is a 27 year old man, who reportedly scaled the exterior wall from the floor below, where he lived with his parents. He was heard to cry ‘Allahu Akbar’’ as he shoved her to her death.
But it is in very bad taste, apparently, to think that the young man might have been motivated, at least in part, by his religious beliefs.
One wonders if there would be similar hesitancy if he had shouted "In the name of our Lord Jesus Christ" as he murdered her.
Titus' projection FTW.
Here is a picture of the truck. How does the NYTimes writer reach the conclusion it was a "small truck"?
I used to remember the timeline in the mid-2000s. Was it '91-'93 or'92-'93? '95/'96, '98, USS Cole, WTC. Now with the media refusing to report facts and the renaming attacks to workplace violence, it's hard for the public to get a grasp of the greater picture it timeline for these "lone wolfish" attacks, and they are attacks. The Professor seems to be safer in mostly white progressive Madison, USA.
Now The Telegraph is saying three dead, not five as they earlier reported.
WTF are "splooge stooges" (sorry, I'm not up on what I assume is gay slang) and how does that relate to anything written here?
"Nevertheless....at some point, self preservation must take first place over being politically correct or being "polite".
I don't know, DBQ. It seems the more the Western World is attacked, the more feverishly the elites insist on "politeness."
"How does the NYTimes writer reach the conclusion it was a "small truck"?"
Small compared to a semi with a double trailer full of I-beams.
Small compared to a Jumbo Cement Mixer.
Small compared to your average Abrams MBT.
I am in fact curious to get the kinetic energy on that thing. I'm sure ISIS has smart STEM students who are working out which rig at what speed and what angle is best for which urban application.
Splooge stooges are the bogeymen of Althouse's complacency and sense of entitlement.
buwaya: your "400+ years" post is stellar.
I wish things were otherwise but if wishes were horses, beggars would ride.
We need to be realistic and your words are a big plus. No easy answers but there are some very bad choices and we should try to avoid them.
Most likely some pissed off Sioux.
I sure hope this doesn't increase Islamophobia! You just know Conservatives will use this to advance their agenda.
She was 31 years old and an architect, and her boyfriend said he was going to propose to her that day, his birthday.
Sure, she died and all, but it's really about him.
""Nevertheless....at some point, self preservation must take first place over being politically correct or being "polite"."
Not if your society is suicidal.
Stop blaming the trucks. It's our fault that they keep driving into innocent people!
Now with the media refusing to report facts and the renaming attacks to workplace violence, it's hard for the public to get a grasp of the greater picture it timeline for these "lone wolfish" attacks, and they are attacks.
I like Mark Steyn's "Amalgamated Union of Lone Wolves."
Really, every last one is acting alone, mentally ill, or both. No one could possibly rationally believe in Islam and be part of a concerted effort to impose shari'a everywhere. That guy the other month who was about to execute a couple dozen guys with a flamethrower when a British sniper obliterated him -- hey, just a "lone wolf." Nothing to worry about, unless you happen to be one of the unlucky few whose face is about to be burned off.
I admit that I am an Islamophobe. There exist evil people out there who would rejoice at seeing me burned alive. They don't comprise all Muslims -- far from it -- but they do exist and I will not ignore them in the hope they'll go away.
mockturtle said...
'I rearry rike the Swedish meatballs.'
Now, Laslo...don't be sinophobic!
As near as I can figger out, the big-people's term for irrational fear of Sweden is IKEAphobia.
Titus: "I love it when she yells at the splooge stooges here"
I'm sorry. You'll have to speak up a bit as we can't hear you over the screams of gays being executed in Muslim lands and run over in western cities.
It's nice to see Titus finds the silver lining in islamist mass murder.
@Althouse, do you see any means of stopping random terror attacks by young Muslim men shouting "Allahu Akbar" other than by forcing moderate Muslims to have skin in the game? Right now I see no middle ground between blaming all of Islam for these terror attacks in Allah's name and accepting that I or someone I love or even someone I like and respect, may make an unlucky turn at a street corner and wind up dead. If you have any ideas, let's hear them (see them in print).
And don't tell me that you don't accept that there's no middle ground unless you can describe what is. Sometimes in life there is no middle ground, however much you might wish there was.
This is a job for the Trump boys. They can sell some more expensive real estate to rich Swedish capitalists in a boom market now. Call them the American Second Home for vacations...but really stocked up as an escape from Muslim-Europa.
Can't we get back to real crimes, like small rural pizza parlor owners not catering gay weddings?
Let's keep our eye on the ball people, plus Christians are icky.
"I hate these Islamophobic comments." So do I. They are not nice. Why can't we all get along? Why can't we focus on how wrong Trump was to question Muslim immigration to Sweden? Why can't we talk more creatively about speeding up the development of self-driving trucks so that no poor Muslim would ever be stuck again in an out-of-control vehicle that plows down innocent bystanders beloved by the religion of peace? Up your game, people. Up with people, people.
It's nice to see Titus finds the silver lining in islamist mass murder.
4/7/17, 2:03 PM
Well, remember how dreamy Titus found Dzhokhar Tsarnaev? Put me in mind of those women who wrote love letters to Ted Bundy.
So many commenters here simply cannot understand , or admit, that there are millions of Muslims who manage to live peacefully. It's not Islam. You all seemed to love King Abdullah, guess what, he's a Muslim. It's radicalism, fundamentalism, extremism that is to blame. It's lazy minded and yes Islamophobic to immediately blame Islam. You've never met a Muslim you'd trust, no Muslim doctor? No neighbor? No Muslim refugee child.
There's nothing wrong with Islam, there's definitely something wrong with Islam in predominately Christian countries. Closing your eyes to irreconcilable differences does no one any good.
Americans - and the West - love "invading the world and inviting the world" - I don't like either.
The 5 Swedes died for diversity. They were probably happy to do so.
How many Americans understand there's a connection between the car bombing in Sweden and our dropping cruise missiles on Syria?
@Inga The problem is that only Muslims seem to be practicing a religion that requires the death of "infidels". You are right that most muslims are peaceful, but at the moment there is a significant enough number non-peaceful muslims to justify some negative generalizations about the religion itself.
Very few Christians, Jews or members of any other religion are making it a practice to attack innocent civilians on a regular basis.
Inga said...
So many commenters here simply cannot understand , or admit, that there are millions of Muslims who manage to live peacefully.
I'd like to believe she came to this conclusion honestly, that her reading comprehension is really this poor. But we all know she understands this is not accurate but creates this strawman because she's incapable of addressing people's actual positions.
Ann Althouse said...
I hate these Islamophobic comments. Up your game. I get the feeling some of you are just bad faith commenters trying to sabotage my blog. You need to improve. I will be deleting some of the comments that fall below what is a pretty low standard. Try to get above it.
The original topic was boring. Muslims killing people is pase. This would be a much more entertaining discussion.
1. What exactly is islamophobic? Literally it means irrational fear of Islam. Wrong word. It isn't about fear and it isn't irrational.
2. Is there anything Muslim's could do that would convince leftists that they must be forced to reform their religion? They have killed hundreds of thousands of christians and yazidis and sold the young women and girls as sex slaves over the last several years alone. All in the name of Islam btw.
Truck control. Think of the children.
What's that definition of Islamaphobia Sam Harris and Ayaan Hirsi Ali spread around (and that Bill Maher likes to use? A word created by fascists and used by cowards to manipulate morons, isn't it?
"So many commenters here simply cannot understand , or admit, that there are millions of Muslims who manage to live peacefully"
No, we all get that.
If, out of one billion Muslims, 5% of them wish to be radical Islamic terrorists, you're still talking about 50 million people. Remember, it only took 19 of them to cause 9/11. That is not taking into account other Muslims who might not want to commit terrorists acts themselves, but have sympathy for those who do and might offer them aid and shelter.
How can you predict who those Muslims are? The people slaughtered in San Bernardino threw a baby shower for the woman who murdered them.
So if we don't know, why play Russian roulette? What do they bring to this country that is so vital, so irreplaceable, that we MUST have them come here, despite the fact that a certain number of them aim to do us harm? I can make my own tabbouli.
Tell us, what Muslim majority country has equal rights for women and gays? Then tell us why you want more people holding those cultural attitudes in our country.
No, it's not fair to the peaceful ones. The moderates should perhaps spend more time denouncing the radicals instead of whining about "Islamophobia" whenever anybody criticizes them.
Inga misses the point. The old estimate I read was 5% radicals, but support was estimated to be between 10%-15%, of a billion followers. That's a lot of damage. 15-20%.
Again, unfortunately, the Tripolitan ambassador who met with John Adams and Thomas Jefferson had the same view. Over 200 years ago.
I guess the only way to know is watch what happens when they become the majority somewhere? What rules they institute?
Then there was the whole Charles the Hammer thing (700s) through Gates of Vienna (1600s) not including what happened to those who lived in what's now India during that time.
The extremist Muslim wants to cut your head off. The moderate Muslim wants the extremist Muslim to cut your head off. The extremist is more correctly following the Qur'an, while the moderate risks death for apostasy. Why do you want either living near you?
Well, this particular blog post can be like the Yale University Press book on the Mohammed Cartoons that had no Mohammed cartoons in the book.
Inga said...
So many commenters here simply cannot understand , or admit, that there are millions of Muslims who manage to live peacefully. It's not Islam.
It is Islam. Read the Koran, the Hadith's, Sharia law. Look at the places they are in power. Women are not equal. Gay people are executed. Apostates and Infidels are subject to death and have been subject to genocide in Muslim countries. It is not some small minority. Go to these countries like I have and you will not be speaking out of ignorance.
It seems you genuinely look forward to your burka and being a slave like the rest of their women.
You all seemed to love King Abdullah, guess what, he's a Muslim.
You refute yourself though you are too stupid to figure it out. There are leaders in the muslim world that are working to reform it. They need to be supported. The rest need to be destroyed.
It's radicalism, fundamentalism, extremism that is to blame. It's lazy minded and yes Islamophobic to immediately blame Islam. You've never met a Muslim you'd trust, no Muslim doctor? No neighbor? No Muslim refugee child.
When they are in power and they allow women to own property, drive, dress how they want, stop killing gay people, stop committing genocide, stop driving trucks into crowds and jumping out with guns to shoot people, and generally stop being barbarians sure.
Inga is making, for the zillionth time, the GWB syllogism that all Moslems are not terrorists. Inga. We get it. We got it when GWB schooled us on it on 9-12-01
" there are millions of Muslims who manage to live peacefully"
Indeed. You have your Muslim doctors and scholars and scientists, and sweet little children. And of course in every population also there are a certain number who are unhappy, or unbalanced. The Islamic problem is that that peaceful population carries a series of cultural memes that direct the form in which these unhappy and unbalanced people work out their problems. These ways are often fatal to others.
Other civilizations, say the Chinese, also have unhappy and unbalanced people, but they find different ways to deal that are rarely a problem for their neighbors.
Radicalism or fundamentalism is not the real problem, its just a handy term to deflect the problem. Our Philippine Moros for instance are about as non-fundamentalist a lot as have ever been. They are very very bad Muslims, they misbehave such that they would get into no end of trouble in Saudi Arabia.
But when they get frustrated, when they are depressed, when they feel put upon, when they are at the end of their rope - they are then shahid. This is the typical pattern too with many of the various Moroccans, Tunisians, Pakistanis and etc. that have turned shahid elsewhere.
You have to hold a complex group of ideas in your head simultaneously to understand the problem. Its not either/or, it is this/and.
As Althouse said, up your game Islamophobes. Trump will be needing Muslims as allies, I think he's beginning to understand this, unlike you folks. Notice how he didn't say the words "Radical Islamic Terrorism" in front of Sisi and King Abdullah. He knows it's disrespectful to them and avoided it. That was a smart move. Maybe he also is listening to his Generals who have worked closely with Muslims in Iraq and Afghanistan and know that these people are indispensable and risk their lives working with the US. General McMullin and Mattis don't like using the term Radical Islamic Terrorism either, why do you think that is?
Carry on.
Inga, the commenters above are making my point. Even a small percentage of a big number remains a big number. One billion is a very big number. And I repeat that even a mere 50 million people who would love to see me roasted alive is, well, 50 million too many.
Can't serve 2 masters and when push comes to shove, which way would they go? Which way Would we? So we as Americans have the luxury of sitting back and watching.
Has human nature really changed? Squeaky wheel gets the oil, temper tantrums are pacified.
All those Christians in the Middle East just gives me hope, as I'm sure it does you as well.
I walked down that street many times! The store the truck crashed into is the one my fiance's mother shops in near where she lives in Gamlestan, the old city. Stockholm is a great city and Swedes are a great people.
It's funny though, talking to Swedes about immigration. The number of Swedes I've spoken to about immigration universally think that there's too much of it, and that they're letting the wrong type of people in. Yet, at the same time, they refuse to try and stop it in any meaningful sense.
There's definitely a sense of menace around though. Gangs of 3-10 young men, just walking around the city. And they all hang out in their ethnic groups .. Afghans, Arabs etc. One late weeknight going home on the subway, my girlfriends son was speaking loudly in English, and the group of young Arab men sitting on the seats kitty corner to us, stopped talking and just stared at us, no doubt recognizing us as Americans. Later that night on the platform stop before ours, an immigrant brawl with knives broke out on that train.
Good times!
"You all seemed to love King Abdullah, guess what, he's a Muslim.
You refute yourself though you are too stupid to figure it out. There are leaders in the muslim world that are working to reform it. They need to be supported. The rest need to be destroyed."
This is an utterly obvious point, but Inga can't grasp it, because she prefers the lazy-minded, simplistic retort of "Oooooh! You're all so Islamophobic!!"
Does Inga know anything about the history of Islam and the West?
It's amusing we are called Islamophobes, but Jews are being chased out of France and Christians out of the Middle East, yet Muslims aren't being called Judeo-Christophobes.
I'm not looking as how they're being treated here, I'm looking at how I would be treated there.
Not seeing a lot of tolerance. So untiil I do,...
The burden is always on US. Screw that shit.
"You have to hold a complex group of ideas in your head simultaneously to understand the problem."
Well, that's the issue right there, expecting people who would rather virtue signal and feel sanctimonious and superior to hold complex ideas in their heads.
I will add that the random killing bit, nor the mass psychosis of jihad, really isn't about or justified by Sharia either, and the whole argument about Sharia is also a bit of a red herring. There are whole Islamic countries where sharia is a dead letter, but they would still make uncomfortable neighbors.
The matter of no-go zones and sharia as local laws is tribalism (and Muslim groups can be very tribal) but they aren't the only third-world tribal peoples that would be very difficult to integrate.
11 mentions of Inga. Clown City.
I'm starting to agree with Althouse.
There are likewise whole Islamic countries where Sharia is alive and well, that would probably make good neighbors. Oman.
It's easy to have Inga's opinion when she's here. We had that attitude for a very long time, being protected by 2 oceans.
But whether we want to or not, the world keeps dragging us in.
So since oil prices are going to be in this range for a little while, and the Sauds seem to be eating some of their seed corn, any bets?
I have an aquaaintence, wouldn't call her a friend though, she is a Catholic. Claims to love children. Occasionally posts on The American Catholic. She tells everyone she gave up a child for adoption years ago, but she confessed that she actually aborted the child and is beside herself with guilt. Begs for forgiveness. She has become a very angry unhappy person who claims to care about children but refuses to even think about allowing some to come to the US as refugees. She'd rather see them gassed.
From the UK Guardian, which is about as "right-wing" as Robert Cook:
"Of those (British Muslims) questioned, 88% said Britain was a good place for Muslims to live in, and 78% said they would like to integrate into British life on most things apart from Islamic schooling and some laws.
However, when asked to what extent they agreed or disagreed that homosexuality should be legal in Britain, 18% said they agreed and 52% said they disagreed, compared with 5% among the public at large who disagreed. Almost half (47%) said they did not agree that it was acceptable for a gay person to become a teacher, compared with 14% of the general population.
Nearly a quarter (23%) supported the introduction of sharia law in some areas of Britain, and 39% agreed that “wives should always obey their husbands”, compared with 5% of the country as a whole. Two-thirds (66%) said they completely condemned people who took part in stoning adulterers, and a further 13% condemned them to some extent. Nearly a third (31%) thought it was acceptable for a British Muslim man to have more than one wife, compared with 8% of the wider population."
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2016/apr/11/british-muslims-strong-sense-of-belonging-poll-homosexuality-sharia-law
Yes, let's import more people who want Sharia and polygamy and think homosexuality should be illegal.
I suspect that Leftist, because they does not understand religion, think British Muslims can just be educated to drop those beliefs. (Because they're so good at education.) However, the trends are in the reverse direction. Young British Muslims are more devout and traditional than the older ones. The same is true in France.
Inga, what is the responsibility of those many millions of peaceful muslims as regards the violence done in their names? Anything? Anything at all? Up your game. Think more deeply about what is going on.
I'm willing to help, but I'd like to see how far you can get relying on your own intellect.
Just sit back and watch Europe. It's like Venezuela, a real-time, real world lesson.
Real like lessons abound, California for the Chinese and Mexicans, Hawaii for the natives and Asians, the Philippines, the world map from our childhood seems to be coming back in some ways.
Well, that's interesting Inga, but I don't know what the hell that has do with this post, where people are discussing facts and data instead of feeeeeeelings. (I know, I know, facts and data make you uncomfortable.)
I am sorry for whatever poster you are referring to, but I do not know her. I have never heard of "The American Catholic" and don't frequent Catholic blogs. I am really not very devout and I imagine most of the people there are.
"Yes, let's import more people who want Sharia and polygamy and think homosexuality should be illegal. "
If you ran that survey among various Shiite, Ahmadi, or quite a few non-Muslim peoples you will likely get similar results - heck, leaving aside polygamy and stoning I know some solid Catholic Philippine provinces that would answer likewise. However, none of these others, should they end up as your neighbors, are likely to kill anyone and would very likely have a ridiculously low crime rate.
The Muslim phenomenon is much more complex than that.
Tim, up your own game. Are Christians responsible for any Christian that does evil things in Jesus name? There are Muslim organizations that call out the acts of terrorism around the world and here in the US. You aren't listening because your Islamophobia is deafening.
I'm calling out the hypocrisy of people like you ExiledonMainStreet.
Ah, the "It's for the children" guilt trip.
If only there were peaceful transfers of power, but sometimes those people vote people in like Hugo and it all goes to hell.
I am a hypocrite because of something someone on a blog I never heard of said?
Up your game, Inga. People on this thread have asked you perfectly reasonable questions and you are now resorting to attacking me because of what someone said on another blog? Who is acting in bad faith now?
Can you answer this:
"So if we don't know, why play Russian roulette? What do they bring to this country that is so vital, so irreplaceable, that we MUST have them come here, despite the fact that a certain number of them aim to do us harm? I can make my own tabbouli.
Tell us, what Muslim majority country has equal rights for women and gays? Then tell us why you want more people holding those cultural attitudes in our country."
"There are Muslim organizations that call out the acts of terrorism around the world and here in the US."
True. The problem is that in that population, that culture, there is that little quick fuse, the crack that fails predictably. Most will not have that crack, or will not be stressed and pushed so that crack starts the structural failure, but much more than enough do. On Monday they can consider becoming a shahid a medieval bit of madness, on Friday, they could be thinking something else.
As I said, this is complex. Fact A has to coexist with Fact B. Both exist.
"Tell us, what Muslim majority country has equal rights for women and gays?"
In theory, quite a few. Tunisia say.
Still, the population is prone to mass casualty attacks targeting European tourists -
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2015_Sousse_attacks
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bardo_National_Museum_attack
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ghriba_synagogue_bombing
how many families has Malaysia taken in?
Dang, not thinking, meant Indonesia. Trying to think/do 4 things at once.
Again, Inga, what do you say to this?
"However, when asked to what extent they agreed or disagreed that homosexuality should be legal in Britain, 18% said they agreed and 52% said they disagreed, compared with 5% among the public at large who disagreed. Almost half (47%) said they did not agree that it was acceptable for a gay person to become a teacher, compared with 14% of the general population.
Nearly a quarter (23%) supported the introduction of sharia law in some areas of Britain, and 39% agreed that “wives should always obey their husbands”, compared with 5% of the country as a whole."
As was pointed out to you numerous times, the Boston Marathon bombers were child refugees.
Do you have any compassion for the children who lost lives and limbs in that bombing? What about the children who were plowed down by that truck driver in Nice?
What about the children who lost their parents in San Bernandino?
The "what about the children" card can be played more than one way.
Inga said...
I'm calling out the hypocrisy of people like you ExiledonMainStreet.
The (most likely)woman who wants more sharia law(for others I guess) is calling out someone else for hypocrisy.
Laughable.
Althouse, you are rarely this clueless--what's going on?
Here's the real end game, and sadly the leadership in the West has been doing its best to see that the worst possible alternative is the one that happens.
Malaysia is an interesting exception of a Sunni country that has not got a cultural propensity to Islamic terrorism. They have non Muslim minorities, Chinese and Hindu, with whom they live side by side, and that they like to oppress through legal discrimination, but there aren't the random daily aggresions and ethno-sectarian violence that are typical of, say, Pakistan or those parts of Indonesia where Muslims neighbor Christians.
They are also rather fond of Sharia and many sorts of fundamentalist posturing.
Why no violence (lately, they have had episodes of massacring Chinese, hence Singapore) I don't know. Maybe its the ethnic-tribal nature of the place, with powerful chieftains.
Interestingly their close kin in Southern Thailand are rather more difficult.
Achilles, why do you think I'd want Sharia Law? Do you think Althouse wants Sharia Law? Does everyone who think Islamophobes are disgusting want Sharia Law?
I will also note that Islamic terrorists do not seem terribly interested in the political views of their victims. If Inga is unfortunate enough to ever find herself in the line of fire, they will not give her brownie points and spare her because she stood against "Islamophobia." I doubt most of the gays in that Orlando nightclub owned MAGA hats. No, to them - leftist apologist, right-wing "Islamophobe" - we're all the same. Infidels.
Inga, I'll take that as admission of failure. Though it's nice that you took the time to invent a large and vibrant anti-extremism movement in Islam. Sorry, but it's a few heroic outcasts like Ayaan Hirsi Ali, vilified by their fellow Muslims and liberals who have betrayed liberalism.
Your statement about evil being committed in Jesus' name is a joke. People don't drive cars into crowds in the name of Jesus and you know it.
I'm not Muslim so I don't get to say what is or is not true Islam. If you're not a muslim, then you don't either. So when these people say they are acting in the name of Islam, I don't get to say, "no, Islam is the religion of peace." It's called humility. You might want to try it. Ultimately, this is a battle over the nature of Islam and we non-muslims are bystanders. It is a struggle you and I don't get to participate in. We are innocents caught up in someone else's struggle.
So we have a group of muslims saying Islam is violence and we have a group of Christians and atheists saying Islam is peace. And then we have apparently non-violent muslims crying about mostly imaginary Islamophobia. Opposing Islamic terrorism is not the responsibility of Christians, it is not the responsibility of Jews, it is not the responsibility of Buddhists, it is the responsibility of other muslims. I don't deny that moderate muslims exist, but so long as they fail in their responsibility to show that Islam is not violence, that Islam is compatible with human rights, democracy, and the Enlightenment, then their existence is irrelevant.
Again, Sharia isn't really the issue.
Maybe I see it that way as where I come, an overwhelmingly Christian country, Sharia has been a recognized parallel legal system since the 19th century, considered valid for various personal and family matters, for Muslims. The attitude is and has been, in Tagalog - "bahala na sila" - and in Spanish - "que hagan escabeche" - let them do their thing.
Achilles, why do you think I'd want Sharia Law? "
No, you just want us to let in more people who want Sharia law.
Which makes no sense.
"In theory, quite a few. Tunisia say. "
Homosexuality is illegal in Tunisia.
Inga said...
Achilles, why do you think I'd want Sharia Law? Do you think Althouse wants Sharia Law? Does everyone who think Islamophobes are disgusting want Sharia Law?
He's looking at outcomes. You refuse to stand up to violence and belittle and undermine this who do. That makes you complicit. You can cry about disgusting Islamophobes all you want, but so long as you are more interested in opposing people who arguably over-react in their horror of violence than you are in the violence itself, then you are complicit. You are, in Orwell's formulation, objectively pro-fascist.
Achilles, why do you think I'd want Sharia Law? Do you think Althouse wants Sharia Law? Does everyone who think Islamophobes are disgusting want Sharia Law?
It's amusing when she lectures others for misstating her position immediately after she misstates their positions. It shows she is capable of making these distinctions she simply chooses not to.
Buwaya. This is America, we have a Constitution. Sharia Law would never replace our secular form of government. Your home country is not comparable to this nation, we are the not the Philiipines.
It's like Inga's unclear on this whole democracy thing. But that's Greco-Roman-English cultural appropriation. And that's a discussion for a different thread. Much better to let the rest of the world default to what they understand or are more comfortable with at best.
But, this discussion is getting ho-hum, real world lesson for all is Europe. Won't be answered for awhile yet.
But that doesn't mean I have to live with being expendable. That's the mentality of being a subject, not a citizen.
Exiled,
Precisely. And horrifically, but that's the way it goes: Moderate Muslims won't stop being part of the problem until they start fearing non-Muslim push-back more than they fear their radical co-religionists. It is a recipe for disaster and worse, but that is how it's going to play out.
And Inga, you revoltingly stupid idiot: as long as Sisi and King Abdullah think that the person uttering the words "Radical Islamic Terrorism" is the problem, rather than the reality of Radical Islamic Terrorism being the problem, then they too are part of the problem.
And to answer your other stupidity ("Are Christians responsible for any Christian that does evil things in Jesus name?") -- Yes we are, and respond by e.g. investigating crimes like assassinating abortion doctors and putting those who do it on trial for first degree murder. AND we don't put together misleading-named organizations like Council on American Christian Relations that whine about Christophobia every time somebody claims that Timothy McVeigh did what he did out of Christian motives.
"Sharia Law would never replace our secular form of government."
This isn't just about the US. Note that the current terrorist outrages we are discussing are in Britain and Sweden. And my point stands anyway, Sharia is not the issue. Its a buzz-word. It does not explain why people crash trucks into crowds for religion.
Kirk Parker you revolting ignorant Islamophobe. Take a lesson from Trump and realize that you have to live in the same world as Muslims. He obviously had an epiphany. There are 1.6 Billion of them.
Blogger Chest Rockwell said...
It's funny though, talking to Swedes about immigration. The number of Swedes I've spoken to about immigration universally think that there's too much of it, and that they're letting the wrong type of people in. Yet, at the same time, they refuse to try and stop it in any meaningful sense.
Related article
Inga,
I've lived in a Muslim country (one that had Sharia law as the official law of the land.)
Have you?
That's that I figured: I have experience, you have posturing.
Unless it was voted on because it was created by white slave owners and that's BAD! time to be enlightened and try something else!
And in Obama's words, the Bill of Rights is full of negative rights.
All he wanted to do was help people anf those nasty men stopped him.
Inga - the Constitution is a "living" document. If you think a Muslim-influenced court can't pull Sharia out of their asses, think again.
tim McGuire: spot on!
I'm sure the Romans felt the same.
Just because you won't live to see it doesn't mean it can't happen. We are being Balkanized, shit happens, courts reverse on the whims of the judges. Now we decide things on possible intent and feelings, not the law.
38 states.
Inga: "Are Christians responsible for any Christian that does evil things in Jesus name?"
According to every leftist in the US the answer to that is "yes" and the lefties, on this blog as well, routinely lay the actions of every Christian, nominal Christian, or individual who can be labeled Christian on every other Christian.
But they only do that every day in every situation.
Really, as if you aren't fully aware of that.
Inga: "Take a lesson from Trump and realize that you have to live in the same world as Muslims."
LOL
Tell it to the Muslims..Assuming they let you keep your head.
9 unelected old men tone tonelessly and needlessly split this country for 45 years by pulling a ruling out of their asses, imposing said ruling instead of letting each state decide on what they would accept in their time.
Shit happens.
"There are 1.6 Billion of them."
Our country (Philippines) has @6 million of them.
Guess where most of the Philippine military is deployed.
If only I had a nickel for every time a leftist in the west mentions the Crusades as an excuse for islamist supremacist atrocities today.
What do they do in Muslim countries when an islamist terrorist attack occurs? They name streets after the killers.
But all cultures are equal, except for ours, which is worse.
This is what happens when there is a critical mass adjacent to a Christian population -
Not everyday, but periodically.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zamboanga_City_crisis
Inga said...
Achilles, why do you think I'd want Sharia Law? Do you think Althouse wants Sharia Law? Does everyone who think Islamophobes are disgusting want Sharia Law?
1. Did they want Sharia law in Cologne? Did they want sharia law in Rotherdam? Did Charlie Hedbo want more sharia law? There are literally thousands of these examples just in western countries. Gay people getting thrown off a roof in the ME doesn't even make the front page. To quote a leader in Iran" "There are no gay people in Iran."
2. Do you find it interesting that you dislike Americans who fought for your freedom more than the muslims who clearly would like to take it away?
AA: I hate these Islamophobic comments. Up your game.
I don't think anyone using neuron-numbing propaganda vocabulary with a straight face is in a position to tell other people to "up their game". (That is, putting aside that you actually are in a position to do just that 'cause it's your blog.)
Why is "Islam is incompatible with Western civilization" a statement in "bad faith"? Can you really not imagine an argument in favor of that assertion that is reasonable and based on sound empirical observation? It would almost certainly be an argument that rejects certain cherished liberal, universalist assumptions about human nature and how successful secular, "pluralist" societies function, but that in itself doesn't make any argument irrational.
Define "Islamophobia". Can you come up with a definition that doesn't depend on wholesale acceptance of those liberal assumptions to be meaningful?
(N.B.: That there are millions and millions of peaceful, decent Muslims is indisputably true. But anybody who thinks this fact somehow "disproves" that large-scale Muslim immigration into the West is a bad idea isn't thinking very hard or paying much attention.)
Walter:
Yeah, we all know that, but Swedes could do something about it at the polls, where they're anonymous. And maybe they will in large numbers in the future. But currently, they won't even do that. Anti refugee parties have certainly increased their share of the voting block, but I think it would take something terrible to happen to really force voters to commit.
Ann Althouse said...
I hate these Islamophobic comments
A phobia is an irrational fear.
First up, the Daily Wire report on the Montreal inman praying to destroy the accursed Jews, and praying for victory for those who engage in jihad everywhere. Number of muslims who walked out is disgust from his services- ZERO. An inman is a recognized muslim religious leader, so it's kind of tough to state that this isn't mainstream islam talking.
And in The Tower there's ayatollah Ali Khamenei praising the crowd for calling for the destruction of the U.S. and Israel. Ayatollahs are the highest ranking clerics in the shia sect of islam.
And from PJMedia reports that an inman in Orlando called for death to gays just a little bit before a known wolf shot up a gay nightclub.
If you don't want muslims around because you think they're dangerous, it's not a phobia. They've been busy proving it since the seventh century, and are currently in another expansionist stage.
I remember in high school in those far distant days of the early 1970s talking about if only people had actually believed that Hitler believed what he had written, and had acted accordingly, WWII could have been avoided. Well, we can read what Islamic leaders all over the world are saying on a regular basis. Calling for jihad. Calling for the Destruction of the Great Satan, referring to the United States. Calling for individuals to act on their own behalf to bring terror to the West. And we have people like you and political leaders in the West telling all of us commoners to stop paying attention to all that, because islam is a Religion of Peace™, and all those terrorist attacks don't represent real islam, even though that's what real Islamic leaders are telling them to do.
If you don't fear islam, you're either heavily armed and prepared, or suffering from a disconnect with reality. As for Inga stating there are 1.6 billion of them, we have a lot more then 1.6 billion bullets available. Long before then, some of them will have gained some sense.
Our country (Philippines) has @6 million of them.
Guess where most of the Philippine military is deployed.
4/7/17, 4:19 PM
Samuel Huntington noted that Islam has "bloody borders." Everywhere it rubs up against another culture or belief system, there is blood, whether in the Philippines, Thailand, Africa, Europe or NYC and Orlando. To point that truth out makes one "intolerant" and "Islamophobic."
Kirk Parker wrote:
"I've lived in a Muslim country (one that had Sharia law as the official law of the land.)
Have you?"
No, Inga hasn't. Inga also knows nothing of the very long history of conflict between Islam and the West, which also includes the history of this country. Obama laughably said the Muslims played a role in the history of America. Well, I suppose, if you count Jefferson sending the Marines over to "the shores of Tripoli" to stop Muslim pirates from enslaving Europeans and Americans.
So, she doesn't have history, facts, experience, logic or basic knowledge of the Islamic religion on her side. But she does have feeeeeeeeeelz and self-righteousness and hatred of America on her side. So there's that.
"If you don't fear islam, you're either heavily armed and prepared, or suffering from a disconnect with reality. As for Inga stating there are 1.6 billion of them, we have a lot more then 1.6 billion bullets available."
Bullets? Oh, why not just gas them like Assad?
exiled on main street: The moderates should perhaps spend more time denouncing the radicals instead of whining about "Islamophobia" whenever anybody criticizes them.
It's not the Muslim moderates who answer criticism of jihadist terrorism with whining about "Islamophobia" (that word created by fascists and used by cowards to manipulate morons). The moderates (wisely) keep their heads down (their best shot at keeping their heads attached to their necks). The whining is coming from US-born islamo-fascisto-opportunists like Linda Sarsour and her confederates in CAIR.
buwaya said...
"Sharia Law would never replace our secular form of government."
This isn't just about the US. Note that the current terrorist outrages we are discussing are in Britain and Sweden. And my point stands anyway, Sharia is not the issue. Its a buzz-word. It does not explain why people crash trucks into crowds for religion.
Disagree. While Sharia is the buzzword as you put it it also describes the problem that is at the core of Islam. The problem is it was founded by a warlord who grew to power and influence by chopping off the heads of his enemies and who subsequently lived off the spoils of war.
The religion he created to accomplish control of his armies specifically placed apostates and infidels and women below the holy warriors. It kept people oppressed and made the holy warriors happy. There are over a dozen instances in the holy book where he encouraged the killing of enemies by the mujaheddin and one over quoted blithe reference to peace.
At the core of Islam is the belief that he infidel must be overcome by Jihad carried out by the mujaheddin. It is in fact the only way to paradise.
2. Do you find it interesting that you dislike Americans who fought for your freedom more than the muslims who clearly would like to take it away?"
Exactly. Inga hates us conservatives. We do not want to saw off her head or run her over with a truck. We just don't want her - and people who think like her - in any position of power over us. No Christian will be shoving her out of a window or burning her alive in the name of Jesus.
Muslims do things like that. A small number of them - but that small number has created a great deal of havoc in the world. Larger numbers of them are mutilating women and killing their daughters for talking to infidels and not wearing headscarves.
But we are the "intolerant ones."
Why did Trump attack that airbase in Syria anyway? He should just follow the lead of you people and let them just kill each other off. No need to intervene, right ? So was a Trump wrong?
Consider this. We can all agree that Althouse is exceptionally smart and articulate. But if she is playing this straight, she has fallen for the narrative that Muslims are - without exception and as a whole - a group of people who are victims and deserve special consideration as a minority group. America should not fear or hate this group.
This opinion is held despite the evidence that the religion (actually it is way more than that) is based on conquest, war, terror and killing. And, of course, it treats women like chattels. Not every Muslim holds these views, but as was pointed out above, it might be the opinion and lifestyle of 20% of 1 billion people. We see evidence of this every day. Check out the killing scorecard at The Relgion of Peace website. We hear about maybe 2% of the daily attacks.
IOW, Islam has captured the hearts and minds of some of the intelligentsia in the West. This is disheartening to me.
I don't intend this comment to be harsh; just cruelly neutral.
"Exactly. Inga hates us conservatives."
Only you. I'm quite sure you'd jump at the chance at running me over with a truck.
>>I get the feeling some of you are just bad faith commenters trying to sabotage my blog.
It's not about you, Ann, or your blog.
People are tired of random killings by fanatical Islamic lunatics, and being told to pretend that Islam is not a factor.
Only you. I'm quite sure you'd jump at the chance at running me over with a truck.
4/7/17, 4:43 PM
Projection again.
Being a mature woman, I don't want to kill people just because they make silly annoying comments and disagree with me on the Internet.
Inga said...
"If you don't fear islam, you're either heavily armed and prepared, or suffering from a disconnect with reality. As for Inga stating there are 1.6 billion of them, we have a lot more then 1.6 billion bullets available."
Bullets? Oh, why not just gas them like Assad?
Decontaminating after a gas attack is messy and dangerous. And some chemical weapons leave residue in the soil. Bombs and bullets. Although I think shaking them all to the core by turning the black rock in Meccas into gravel by application of a few MOABs followed by a week or so of a bomb a minute into Mecca so the only reason two bricks are standing is because one bounced on top of the other would be a good start at encouraging the so called moderates to leave their cult of death. Especially when they notice that their god isn't raining down death and destruction upon us in retaliation.
"It's not about you, Ann, or your blog."
What the hell are you doing commenting here then? It's her blog, she can express her displeasure over the Islamaphobes taking over every thread about a terrorist attack.
"the Islamaphobes taking over every thread about a terrorist attack."
Terrorist attacks that are committed by Muslims.
"The problem is it was founded by a warlord who grew to power and influence by chopping off the heads of his enemies and who subsequently lived off the spoils of war. "
Yes, but that is not Sharia. The memetic programming of a conquering faith, a cult really (See V.S.Naipaul on the matter) sits in the back of a lot of heads. Even heads that don't give a rats ass about religious law (Sharia).
exiled: "Terrorist attacks that are committed by Muslims."
CNN spent quite a bit of time on this today and not one time were the words "muslim", "islam", "islamist" or "jihadist" used.
Even when CNN recounted the similarity between this attack and all the others (London, Nice, Berlin, etc) those words were never mentioned,
Apparently, it's just some social organization that is pulling of these attacks. Sort of like the Rotary Club.
That's the way the left and squishes like it. If you pretend it's not there, maybe, just maybe, it won't be!
You will recognize this as the thought process many very young children follow.
mockturtle said...
Maybe Ann is afraid of a fatwa being issued against her and her family. It could happen! Maybe she found out she was on ISIS Hit List.
To be honest, at a minimum, at least 2 members of my immediate family are on an ISIS hit list. That's what happens when you have family members on active duty who've played in the sandbox. And remember those lists of veterans from a VA database that were compromised in 2013? I'm on that list. Even thought claims are now that China did it, there were and are stories that it was terrorist groups.
Inga: " It's her blog, she can express her displeasure over the Islamaphobes taking over every thread about a terrorist attack."
One word the left never uses to describe mass murdering islamist jihadis: "deplorables".
Nope, that word is reserved for the really bad people, eh Inga?
buwaya said...
Yes, but that is not Sharia. The memetic programming of a conquering faith, a cult really (See V.S.Naipaul on the matter) sits in the back of a lot of heads. Even heads that don't give a rats ass about religious law (Sharia).
True. Sharia law is the functional interpretation of the Koran and the Sunnah.
Shariah is the Islamic Law – the disciplines and principles that govern the behavior of a Muslim individual towards his or herself, family, neighbors, community, city, nation and the Muslim polity as a whole, the Ummah. Similarly Shariah governs the interactions between communities, groups and social and economic organizations. Shariah establishes the criteria by which all social actions are classified, categorized and administered within the overall governance of the state.
The Islamic Suppreme Council.org
Sharia is not the core problem, but it is one of the manifestations and one of the sources of justification for the shahid. While people focus on the periodic episodes of killing infidels and travelling to paradise it the the absolutely illiberal interpretations of texts that revolved around the life and teachings of a murderous warlord.
Up to 49 "inga" mentions.
What a bunch of clowns!
LOL!
Where's Chuck? God, we need to Chuck to elevate the conversation.
LOL!
Blogger rcocean said...
"Up to 49 "inga" mentions.
What a bunch of clowns!"
Don't blame me. I'm not asking these dopes to address me.
Inga said...
What the hell are you doing commenting here then? It's her blog, she can express her displeasure over the Islamaphobes taking over every thread about a terrorist attack.
I know you hate us even though we protected you and your freedom. You should go live with your friends. I am sure they will let you walk around and talk shit about them like we let you do here. They wouldn't call you an ungrateful bitch.
Or they might treat you like they did the thousands of christian and yazidi women they took and sold into sexual slavery. But Inga thinks that is ok. It is the islamophobes that are the real problem. And sharia law is just fine with her too. All criticism goes to Americans who she hates. It seems she is even cheering for her muslim friends when they run over a few.
"Don't blame me. I'm not asking these dopes to address me."
I don't blame You!
Leftists want theocracy.
They adore Islam and creeping sharia law.
And, of course, there is what I will call the Captain Kahn problem. A brave and heroic Muslim American who died in service of his country.
This is a difficult problem. Maybe the best solution is to just contain Islam to where it is now.
Consider that Ahmadis, that genuinely peaceful and much-persecuted lot, also observe "Shariah" according to their definition, which on the face of it does not differ much from what some spokesman of Al Azhar would say.
This is an Ahmadi explaining it -
https://www.alislam.org/library/contemporary-issues/demystifying-shariah/
However,
The difference is the cultural programming, and this comes from their having a SECOND revelatory prophet, who preached an explicitly pacifistic doctrine. Prophet#2 (pacifist) trumped Prophet#1 (warlike). That is what I think reforming Islam will take.
For the record, do not take an Ahmadi explanation of Islam to apply to the lot of them, especially the normal Sunni. They are very different in spite of all the outward similarities.
rcocean said...
Up to 49 "inga" mentions.
What a bunch of clowns!
LOL!
You counted? What a clown!
"'the Islamaphobes taking over every thread about a terrorist attack.'
Terrorist attacks that are committed by Muslims."
Right. There's basically no way for a comment thread on an Islamist terror attack to NOT sound Islamophobic, unless you go to great and uncharacteristic-for-a-normal-conversation lengths to make it stated that you're not an Islamaphobe. Caveats and qualifiers and all that, which only end up drawing attention to that which you're painfully avoiding saying. The natural and rather obvious reaction is to robustly and honestly discuss what motivated such an attack.
Blogger rcocean said...
How many Americans understand there's a connection between the car bombing in Sweden and our dropping cruise missiles on Syria?"
This qualifies as a clown comment.
buwaya said...
That is what I think reforming Islam will take.
I think it is going to require the 30% solution.
tim maguire said...
You counted?
ctrl + f
Inga: "Don't blame me. I'm not asking these dopes to address me."
We are not addressing you, we are addressing your moronic position as it is perfectly emblematic of the western leftist opinion that any criticism at any time of any muslim for any reason constitutes a beyond the pale action that must be struck down immediately in the strongest terms.
Many are curious as to what islam represents for the modern western leftist that it is accorded such a curiously unique position as the only "religion" that cannot be criticized.
Many of us however are fully cognizant of the fact that militant repressive fascistic expansionist islam is simply the latest of many totalitarian movements that the modern left automatically aligns with as a means to destroy current western and historical structures so that the modern lefties can then build their latest idea of utopia.
Which will work for sure this next time!
After that scolding, I somehow feel the need to do penance, having just yesterday declined an invitation to attend a fundraising dinner as a representative of my workplace. I declined mainly because it will be in Dearborn, Michigan where crimes against females often go unreported.
"Many of us however are fully cognizant of the fact that militant repressive fascistic expansionist islam is simply the latest of many totalitarian movements that the modern left automatically aligns with as a means to destroy current western and historical structures so that the modern lefties can then build their latest idea of utopia."
Yes, when the leftists and radical Muslims succeed in taking down Western Civilization, I'm sure the Muslims will meekly step aside and permit the leftists to run things. Everyone will then become good little secular leftist too!
Somehow I see a flaw in this plan...
What's moronic is to blame over a billion Muslims for the crimes of a small fraction of them.
"What's moronic is to blame over a billion Muslims for the crimes of a small fraction of them."
Which nobody is doing. You don't do math, do you, Inga? Do you ever actually read what people write? As I said earlier if only 5 percent of a billion Muslims are terrorists we're still talking about 50 million terrorists. Only 19 took down the Twin Towers.
You're welcome to play Russian Roulette with your life. You have no right to insist that other people - sane people - are bigots because they don't want to do the same.
Yes you are doing exactly that little mama.
"What's moronic is to blame over a billion Muslims for the crimes of a small fraction of them."
That strawman is so dry, it's a wonder it doesn't burst into flame all by itself.
So let's hear some comments that have something positive to say about Muslim people.
Deny deny deny, but your comments here tell the tale. You've been proven to be Islamaphobes, you don't like the label and now are trying to squeak your way out of it. Too late.
My job is done here.
One more thing, explain again why you are against allowing Syrian refugee children onto this country? Sounds like you blame these children for the religion of their parents. You're not Islamaphobes though, huh?
My job is done here.
4/7/17, 6:49 PM
Your job here is evidently to be a witless, dishonest ninny, who thinks in cliches, knows nothing of history and can't read or construct a logical argument.
Most here would agree you perform your job to a T!
You're job obviously is to prove yourself a hypocrite, bad mommy.
We've answered your questions already Inga. You haven't answered ours because you don't have the intellectual firepower to do anything but resort to your stupid cliches. Many people here besides me have written intelligent comments - Michele Dulak Johnson, for instance, who is hardly a hothead. You don't engage with them because you can't.
Childish, Inga, childish.
@exiledonmainstreet, or perhaps the Soros-funded organization she trolls for hasn't gotten back to her with updated talking points.
Bad mommy, you've tried mightily to rationalize your Islamaphobia and hypocrisy. You've made arguments that sounded like they made sense.. to you. Your arguments only proved that you have the need to excuse your own behavior, which is a pattern for you. There are reasons God didn't bless certain people with children. If one doesn't have the capacity to love other people's children too, as vulnerable small humans, one does not deserve their own child.
@mupetblast
Great observation, thanks. Stating the obvious, it's the same thing with face-to-face conversation. The majority of my liberal friends know my opinion on the big issues, so short of someone provoking me I leave it alone. As you say, it's too difficult setting the stage for discussion. I'm also saddened that it's not possible with my millennial, freshly and expensively educated children.
"why you are against allowing Syrian refugee children onto this country?"
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Omar_Mateen
"Mateen was born Omar Mir Seddique[6] on November 16, 1986,[7] in New Hyde Park, New York"
http://www.mercurynews.com/2017/01/17/what-we-know-about-noor-salman-wife-of-orlando-nightclub-shooter/
"Salman was born May 25, 1986 and grew up in the Contra Costa County town of Rodeo"
@mupetblast
Sorry for the follow-up.
Even more frustrating is when the kids are sufficiently well educated that they can quote healthy chucks of the Quran, sections selected by their profs to substantiate the liberal narrative of a peaceful religion. Argh.
Uh, rcocean, if you're just using Control-F to find the word "Inga", you realize that counts every one of *her* posts too, right? You might have noticed a post starts with that person's name. Oh, and also when she's quoting someone who addressed her by name.
I'd mock how hilariously stupid that was, but, really, it kinda just does the work all by itself.
As do Inga's "arguments".
Hey! I'm okay with bringing Syrian refugee children into the Initrd States. Just as long as we get to raise them as good Christians.
Inga,
You're absolutely right!! "that there are millions of Muslims who manage to live peacefully."
Out of 1.6 billion.
Here is, in my opinion, the most risible thing that's been said in this thread. By Inga, of course.
"Are Christians responsible for any Christian that does evil things in Jesus name?"
As we've been hearing ad nauseum for decades, of COURSE they are. And they're responsible for anything any Christian does even if Jesus's name never entered the picture. And they're responsible for terrorist acts by atheists (Timothy McVeigh). And they're responsible for every crime ever committed in any Law and Order episode. There is nothing, no act, no history, in which Christians are not the responsible party. If Muslims kill a bunch of people, the real culprit, the only one that leftist tools like you deem worthy of attacking, is Christians. They're held responsible by the entire media, by Hollywood, by Democrats, and by every leftist everywhere, 24 hours a day, 7 days a week, in a constant litany of pure unmitigated HATE that never stops to take a breath.
And I'm agnostic myself. It's a good thing for you that Christians are Christian, because the bigotry and hate is so constant and so overwhelming, if they weren't, I'd think they were in fact completely justified in unleashing those 1.6 billion bullets on you and your fellow leftists. You're actually far worse than the Muslims in half a dozen ways.
Quinn,
I'm not an agnostic. I'm a Christian. I'm not bigoted toward my own religion, I try to live it.
Of course you're bigoted toward your own religion. Probably 90% of the people on this thread are Christian, and your only purpose here is to demonize them as "Islamophobes" without one negative thing to say about the Muslims who are actually killing Christians. It's obvious who's way way way higher in your hierarchy - the same hierarchy pretty much everyone in the Left follows.
DOGGIE HAMLET? Up your game, Lady.
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