The FBI and the Justice Department obtained the warrant targeting Carter Page’s communications after convincing a Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court judge that there was probable cause to believe Page was acting as an agent of a foreign power, in this case Russia, according to the officials.
This is the clearest evidence so far that the FBI had reason to believe during the 2016 presidential campaign that a Trump campaign adviser was in touch with Russian agents. Such contacts are now at the center of an investigation into whether the campaign coordinated with the Russian government to swing the election in Trump’s favor....
“This confirms all of my suspicions about unjustified, politically motivated government surveillance,” Page said in an interview Tuesday. “I have nothing to hide.” He compared surveillance of him to the eavesdropping that the FBI and Justice Department conducted against civil rights leader Martin Luther King Jr.
April 12, 2017
"The FBI obtained a secret court order last summer to monitor the communications of an adviser to presidential candidate Donald Trump..."
"... part of an investigation into possible links between Russia and the campaign, law enforcement and other U.S. officials said," The Washington Post reports.
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The devil you say!
Obama is still hiding out overseas. It seems like he is never coming back. Depositions are waiting. Guess he isn't looking forward to videos of himself repeatedly taking the 5th going viral on YouTube.
Just the tip of the iceberg.
after convincing a Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court judge that there was probable cause to believe Page was acting as an agent of a foreign power
I keep hearing how essentially the FISA court is basically "rubber stamp" situation, with some insanely low percentage of requests being denied. If that's true, than "convincing" may just have been as simple as asking.
"monitor the communication" = "surveil"
"surveilance" = "wiretapping"
So-called LLR can argue all day how to properly decipher a 100-word summation of the above act, but all with common sense can interpret this as what it is. And eventually the bad news like this will overwhelm all the fake news narratives the DNC-Media complex have constructed.
"What did the [former] president know and when did he know it?" will become the more important phrase, even surpassing "... 'tapped my wires'..." in the short run and "It was that damned video" in the long run.
Remember when the Obama Administration was convinced of the journalists' conspiracies, and so they tapped them? Or Congress's... conspiracies, I guess? Did we even get a fig leaf for why he wiretapped Congress? I forget.
Page doesn't seem to have been much of an advisor.
"Goddamit, Jim, we've got all these government agencies that can snoop on a fly's ass on the dark side of the moon, & you're telling me we can help Hillary keep that fucking madman out of the White House?"
"Basically, yeah, Susan. I mean, we've got no reason to go snooping on an American citizen, much less a presidential candidate."
"How about if he was in cahoots with a foreign power, like, maybe, the Russkies?"
"Well, yeah, but what's the chance of that? Half the people in this town talk to the Russkies about one thing or another. It isn't the Cold War anymore, Susan."
"But, with that madman in office, we get ourselves into a hot war. We gotta do something! I'm gonna push DoJ to get a FISA warrant to go after those clowns. DoJ hates Trump. They'll do it in a heartbeat. That's the excuse we'll use -- he or a member of his coterie is in cahoots with the Russians!"
"I didn't hear any of this, Susan."
OMG it must be evidence of collusion....
All I ever hear is that there are 'possibilities', that people 'close to Trump' had 'contact' with 'suspected' Russian 'operatives' and those contacts 'may be evidence' of some kind of 'collusion' over something 'related to the election'.
And if ham sandwiches can be indicted, FISA warrants can be obtained on next to nothing.
But the Trump campaign has been saying all along (from weeks ago when Page was doing some embarrassing interviews) that the guy had no position, and no formal role with the campaign.
I take the Trump campaign at its word on this one. On paper, they have a perfectly valid case. The guy was not a Trump staffer or agent. Any alleged crimes he may have been a party or witness to, have no bearing in Trump.
At the same time, this is just as clearly not a case of "Obama wiretapping the Trump campaign."
Yet instead of this leaking during the campaign, all we heard of from the FBI was Hillary's emails.
Meanwhile, in other news, both parties reviewing the stuff Nunes pantomimed with the White House are reporting that there's nothing in the documents that casts Susan Rice in a bad light. But Trump continues to claim he was surveilled.
As for ease of approval of FISA warrant, we already had leaks that the first application by the FBI was turned down.
This is the clearest evidence so far that the FBI had reason to believe during the 2016 presidential campaign that a Trump campaign adviser was in touch with Russian agents.
Hardly.
This is the clearest evidence so far that Obama used the FBI to spy on his political opponents.
Meanwhile, back at the ranch, how's the FBI doing on that felony leak investigation? I can never find any mention of it in my local politburo newsletter.
The Russian embassy in DC must have been a very lonely place before Trump ran for president. Apparently not one Democrat and nobody in the Obama administration ever contacted them, met with them, called them, invited them to parties or even asked them out for a shot of vodka.
This is the clearest evidence so far that the FBI had reason to believe during the 2016 presidential campaign that a Trump campaign adviser was in touch with Russian agents.
Actually, its clear evidence that the FBI was wiretapping someone associated with the Trump campaign.
The Washington Post is just going to take the FBI's word that its motives were upright and moral? If they were dead, Woodward and Bernstein would be spinning in their graves.
I've lost track. Is this good or bad news for Trump?
Blogger readering said..."As for ease of approval of FISA warrant, we already had leaks that the first application by the FBI was turned down."
Yeah, they're virtually never turned down but that one was. Figure it out.
I wonder how long it will be before someone breaks the story that "Bush did it too".
As for ease of approval of FISA warrant, we already had leaks that the first application by the FBI was turned down.
So they went Judge shopping.
readering said...
As for ease of approval of FISA warrant, we already had leaks that the first application by the FBI was turned down.
I can't keep track, was this the thing that everyone said there was no proof of but Andrew Napolitano kept insisting was for reals? (I'm not trying to be snarky, I really can't keep track of the daily drama)
"At the same time, this is just as clearly not a case of "Obama wiretapping the Trump campaign.""
-- The argument, as I believe it goes, is that, while the paper work says that the wiretapping was of this individual, for that reason, the REAL reason was to spy on Trump.
Now, whether you believe that or not is up to you. Sort of like when in the movie the cop pulls over the clean cut hero, and says, "Did you know your tail light was out," when in reality the cop wants to hassle them over some other thing.
"So they went Judge shopping."
-- Or tightened their reasoning. Happens a lot in business too; you pitch an idea to your boss, but it has blatant problem X, so they reject it, but with the understanding that if you come back with X fixed, we can talk.
Ok, In reality this is 'good' for Trump. Or at least not 'bad'.
But the media of course is spinning it as 'REAL BAD' for Trump.
Got it.
"-- Or tightened their reasoning. Happens a lot in business too; "
But, apparently, it doesn't happen in FISA court. Reporting is that they're "always" accepted the first time.
As I recall, before Obama was elected, it was axiomatic on the left that FISA warrants were routinely granted on little or no basis and that it was a major scandal threatening everyone's fourth amendment rights.
http://www.anncoulter.com/columns/2017-04-05.html#read_more
Let us not forget that the "collusion with the Russians to swing the U.S. election" constantly referred to, actually is the suspicion that the Hillary, DNC, and Podesta e-mails were obtained from "the Russians" even though Wikileaks stoutly maintains they came from Democrat "disgruntled employees." Also that the contents of said e-mails have never been disputed.
And in the James Rosen case, the FBI got their warrant from the thid FISA judge they tried.
...third...
So, 1. "O" did "wiretap" "Trump" and 2. Rice did unmask Trump operatives in intel and 3. the FBI got nuttin and 4. Rice got nuttin but 5. Dems and MSM nonetheless push story of Russia collusion and 6. with the aid of LLRs keep focus on Trump tweets rather than partisan domestic surveillance.
What's interesting about the FISA requests re: Russian contact with Trump associates is that the first one was denied. The rate of denial is very nearly zero.
"But, apparently, it doesn't happen in FISA court."
-- True, but it isn't unheard of to me that someone who got told no to come back for a second bite of the apple.
Ron Winkleheimer said...
The Washington Post is just going to take the FBI's word that its motives were upright and moral?
4/12/17, 12:13 PM
Well sure, why not?
Its not like the BATF ever helped Mexican drug cartels obtain guns illegally.
Its not like the Government lied about why a handful of embassy personnel were attacked and killed by blaming it on a small time video that had been online for months but no one knew about.
Its not like the IRS targeted conservative groups for excessive scrutiny while fast-tracking Satanic cults.
Its not like the BATF ever had informants sell untaxed cigarettes at a huge profit, stuck the money in secret accounts, and used the money "for stuff".
You can SO trust the Government especially when the Democrats are in charge! They are the MOST transparent ever!
However, now that we know at least one target who was surveilled, I'm curious about people who insist there's still evidence out there. The guy was watched for over 180 days. Nothing has come of it. Are they still waiting, or do we think, maybe, he's innocent?
The thing that the lefties will all ignore is that Nixon did not order the CIA to steal documents from the democrats. But he manned up and took responsibility. Will the man-boy Obama do the same? How about a poll?
Sort of like when in the movie the cop pulls over the..."
Movie? Every freaking episode of COPS had* some criminal schmuck who came to their attention because a light was out, the registration was expired, no seat belt or some other very dumb infraction. In one (unpublished) novel I wrote the criminal mastermind makes all the new recruits watch 100 hours of COPS so they get it drilled into their heads NOT to set themselves up for an unexpected stop.
*I think there might be new episodes being produced again. This show was fascinating to me and my family. The new "Live PD" is not so much. Editing is half the talent in TV production.
Just about every ludicrous plot point I laughed at in Person of Interest has now turned out to be plausible and existing IRL.
Is it me or does the justice department under Trump have a person's name after it and under Obama it just seems nameless and anonymous? If the story is about something that happened under the Obama presidency it is "The FBI and the Justice department obtained" but under Trump... it seems more likely the Trump appointee, in this case Sessions, would be named.
If they wiretapped one guy with a Trump connection, what are the odds that they tapped others as well?
So the left has dropped any pretense the Obama Administration wasn't wiretapping the Trump Campaign. How many people in this country continue to believe Trump unstable for claiming this?
Hmmm....the revelations continue. It's like a bad smell that won't go away.
Relentless spin. This partially vindicates Trump, objectively: the claim there was no wire-tapping is now definitively refuted. But what does this article present it as? Evidence that the FBI had evidence that some unnamed Trump staffer had contact with some unnamed Russian, at an unknown time in an unknown place.
I take the Trump campaign at its word on this one. On paper, they have a perfectly valid case. The guy was not a Trump staffer or agent. Any alleged crimes he may have been a party or witness to, have no bearing in Trump.
At the same time, this is just as clearly not a case of "Obama wiretapping the Trump campaign."
------------------------
Chuck, you're just ... precious.
It appears that we judged Obama by the color of his skin, and not the content of his character.
How many people in this country continue to believe Trump unstable for claiming this?
--------------------
Well, there's Chuck...
madAsHell said...
It appears that we judged Obama by the color of his skin, and not the content of his character.
-------------------
Hey, watch that "we" kemosabe!
(I think those of us who grew up in desegregated areas, went to desegregated schools, and attend diverse churches -- ie/the Catholics -- got over the idea of "magic negroes" a loooong time age. We're all people, folks, in the here and now. If you voted for Obama because you thought the jr. senator needed a hand up, well, that's on you.)
madAsHell said...
It appears that we judged Obama by the color of his skin, and not the content of his character.
4/12/17, 1:25 PM
Well the color of his skin was obvious to all (and mattered most to some) and learning the content of his character required more effort that many cared to invest. Many were all too happy to be part of something "historic" regardless of the cost.
"This is the clearest evidence so far that the FBI had reason to believe during the 2016 presidential campaign that a Trump campaign adviser was in touch with Russian agents."
Do the dildoes at the WaPo get that this is not evidence of criminal conduct by Page, but that their story is "clear evidence" that someone is illegally leaking classified material to benefit Democrats politically?
Arrogance and corruption unbounded!
Putin power!
Well golly gosh!! The Donald WAS right!!
So, Susan Rice lied yet again.
Good. Considering that Carter Page was the useful idiot to Russian spies, I'd say this was a smart move.
With the absolute politization of the judiciary, I think it would be very interesting to find out which FISA judges approved warrants and which judges rejected them. Apparently, Chief Justice Roberts appoints the FISA judges and some are Republican and some are Democrat.
Do you think there is a correlation between the political affiliation of the FISA judge and the outcome of the Trump-related FISA warrant?
Chuck: 'At the same time, this is just as clearly not a case of "Obama wiretapping the Trump campaign."'
Dammit, Chuck! Why are you repetitively bogging down on the nomeclature when it is clear that Trumpers have been identified as targets of surveillance, including electronic surveillance, by agents of the Obama administration? More importantly, someone is illegally leaking related classified material to the media to benefit Democrats politically - probably to help create a false narrative.
"Good. Considering that Carter Page was the useful idiot to Russian spies, I'd say this was a smart move."
-- Uh... actually, it appears that since he was observed for over 180 days and nothing was found to charge him (and nothing was leaked to damage him a la Flynn), that, uh, actually, he was perfectly innocent.
"-- Uh... actually, it appears that since he was observed for over 180 days and nothing was found to charge him (and nothing was leaked to damage him a la Flynn), that, uh, actually, he was perfectly innocent."
That can't be right. If the Government spies on you, you must be Guilty! Proof is unnecessary, Comrade!
So release the warrant application! Or is this going to be like when they refused to identify which IRS files ended up in the hands of political operatives in the Obama White House on the grounds of the the 'privacy' of the victims?
If you think of Chuck as on the autism spectrum, your urge to argue with him goes away.
Full disclosure: He has diagnosed me on this blog as dangerously mentally unstable, so let him whine about personal attacks as he will.
Evidence of complicity with the Russians seems always to be like the steppenwolf, that dark shape in the foggy distance on the steppe, that looks like a a wolf until you get close and the illusion disappears.
My new Vladimir Putin wall calendar arrived to day. It's pretty neat, and only $3.95! Hang it up at work, make your colleagues whisper behind your back. Order it here through the Althouse Amazon portal.
Blogger Inga said...
Good. Considering that Carter Page was the useful idiot to Russian spies, I'd say this was a smart move.
4/12/17, 2:15 PM
Why do people think that simply asserting something is meaningful? Example:
"Good. Considering that Hillary Clinton was the useful idiot to Russian spies, I'd say this was a smart move."
I think the method of revealing the truth of the matter is now clear- the FISA warrants issued will be leaked out one by one so that after the second or third one, it can be claimed to be covered and is thus "old news" and no longer worthy of coverage.
I have a theory that depends on the story about the FISA warrant declined last Summer being true- that the Obama Administration decided to try another tactic after the first failure- find someone not officially a member of the Trump team and get a warrant on him, then boot-strap further warrants based on Page's conversations with official members of Trump's team. If further leaks come, I will take it as confirmation.
"This is the clearest evidence so far that the FBI had reason to believe during the 2016 presidential campaign that a Trump campaign adviser was in touch with Russian agents."
It does no such thing. It could conform that the FBI allowed itself to be used for political purposes. It could confirm that the FBI had a baseless suspicion that convinced itself (and others) there was a real problem. It could confirm that the FBI is incompetent. It could confirm that someone was manufacturing fake evidence that misled the FBI. There are numerous other possibilities.
This framing of the information is not fake news. It's vicious attack journalism, the undermining of an attempt to unseat a President.
In ga
Not sure you know the meaning of " useful idiots" nor the fact that it is tattooed on leftists.
"As for ease of approval of FISA warrant, we already had leaks that the first application by the FBI was turned down."
Lie about information and the standards for any warrant can be met if the court decides to believe you. Since there is not oppositional vetting of the application, it's possible to fool the court if you play fast and loose.
Did that happen here? We don't know, but given the total dry well of the surveillance it seems some exaggeration might have been possible.
This whole thing stinks. Even Althouse can smell it.
David said... [hush][hide comment]
Lie about information and the standards for any warrant can be met if the court decides to believe you. Since there is not oppositional vetting of the application, it's possible to fool the court if you play fast and loose. Did that happen here? We don't know, but given the total dry well of the surveillance it seems some exaggeration might have been possible.
Plus if the probable cause statement included damning assertions (especially if verifiable) the contents would have been leaked already. It seems more likely it was the same CI who claimed Trump pissed on prostitutes on the bed Obama stayed in.
The story is buried in the MSM. Nobody I know IRL knows about this. It's hush-hush!
The FISA court is the most compliant court in the world. From its establishment to 2015, the last round of reporting figures, the court has approved 38,365 warrants but only rejected a dozen. That's a rejection rate of 0.031 percent.
"but only rejected a dozen."
-- If true, 3/12, or 25%, of them involved wire tapping Obama's political enemies (2 attempts at the journalist, one attempt at some Trump campaign person.)
Good. Considering that Carter Page was the useful idiot to Russian spies, I'd say this was a smart move.
It still doesn't explain or justify the unmasking and leaking of the ancillary surveillance of others.
Chuck said...At the same time, this is just as clearly not a case of "Obama wiretapping the Trump campaign."
Are you headed to the gym or something, Chuck? That was quite a stretch.
This revelation supports both Theory A ("Trump was colluding with Russia") and Theory B ("Obama was spying on Trump"). It will save us a lot of time to assume that both A and B occurred. Do you all see that a reasonable suspicion of A is a defense to B?
First Flynn, now Manafort, how many more?
https://www.apnews.com/861959fa610147b49bc9d5f2b25a0ce8
"President Donald Trump's former campaign chairman is registering as a foreign agent.
Paul Manafort's spokesman says he was in talks with the government about registering before the 2016 election and is now "taking appropriate steps" in response to "formal guidance" from the government."
"Do you all see that a reasonable suspicion of A"
No. Not unless A was a justifiable and criminal suspicion.
In any case, this was a political matter. The people are allowed to elect whoever they want to elect. It is not up to Obama to choose his successor.
Who in the Trump camp thought it was a good idea to hire this guy?
https://apnews.com/20cfc75c82eb4a67b94e624e97207e23
"AP Exclusive: Manafort firm received Ukraine ledger payout
WASHINGTON (AP) — Last August, a handwritten ledger surfaced in Ukraine with dollar amounts and dates next to the name of Paul Manafort, who was then Donald Trump's campaign chairman.
Ukrainian investigators called it evidence of off-the-books payments from a pro-Russian political party — and part of a larger pattern of corruption under the country's former president. Manafort, who worked for the party as an international political consultant, has publicly questioned the ledger's authenticity.
Now, financial records newly obtained by The Associated Press confirm that at least $1.2 million in payments listed in the ledger next to Manafort's name were actually received by his consulting firm in the United States. They include payments in 2007 and 2009, providing the first evidence that Manafort's firm received at least some money listed in the so-called Black Ledger."
Left Bank of the Charles said... [hush][hide comment]
This revelation supports both Theory A ("Trump was colluding with Russia") and Theory B ("Obama was spying on Trump"). It will save us a lot of time to assume that both A and B occurred.
LBOC is an alien infiltrator here to trigger world war three so his species can take over the planet. It seems indisputable it will save time if everyone assumes this is true.
Blogger Inga said...
Who in the Trump camp thought it was a good idea to hire this guy?
Remember Hillary Clinton? Her foundation/slush fund took Russian money while Hillary, acting as US Secretary of State, approved Russia's plan to corner the market in Uranium.
Manafort was failed campaign adviser, fired last August. Hillary was the Democrat's presidential candidate.
"Remember Hillary Clinton?"
Trump is President, not Hillary. Stop obsessing over Hillary and pay attention to your President.
Blogger Inga said...
"Remember Hillary Clinton?"
Trump is President, not Hillary. Stop obsessing over Hillary and pay attention to your President.
Stop the hand waiving. You have exhibited no ability to judge who is and who has not been corrupted by the Russians or any other foreign power. Hillary's slush fund was taking money from a lot of countries. Shouldn't she be investigated?
A couple of weeks ago it was a sign of insanity to believe Obama's government monitored any of Trump's campaign people.
A couple of days ago it was a sign of stupidity to not understand that monitoring happened, but the Trump people monitored were captured incidentally as part of investigations into other people.
A couple of minutes ago it was a sign of a lack of sophistication to not understand that even though someone associated with Trump's campaign was specifically targeted by the Obama government during the fickin' campaign itself that doesn't in any way mean that Obama surveilled the Trump campaign.
What do you think the smart people will believe tomorrow?
Inga said...
Stop obsessing over Hillary and pay attention to your President.
Holy gosh, yer right! I might miss a few seconds of l'outrage frauduleux and would then have to express my neurotic hatred, fear and hostility in some less ludicrous manner.
"What do you think the smart people will believe tomorrow?"
They will be changing the subject. Probably saying that Trump used too many missiles in the attack on Syria. Hillary could have done it with 52.
"Yet instead of this leaking during the campaign, all we heard of from the FBI was Hillary's emails."
readering, do you remember when Lois Lerner planted that question at a big conference to get out ahead of the news about the IRS blocking conservative groups applying for 501C3 ?
I didn't think so.
This is the early limited hangout before the news flood comes on Obama surveillance of Trump.
We heard about Hillary's e-mails from Wikileaks until they shot Seth Rich in the back. Not from the FBI.
Then it stopped.
Then the FBI came out and said she was not going to be indicted.
They went to FISA to get a warrant to tap an American?
Run that by me one more time, please?
And remind me again what the "F" stands for?
There is a lot going on that isn't apparent yet. The FBI is apparently stonewalling Congress on the FISA investigation. Their 100 question request is still completely unanswered. That is somewhat weird because Dir Comey is a Republican. On the flip side, the FBI was apparently the agency tasked by the Obama Administration (Rice?) to investigate the claimed Russian collaboration. They may know that they screwed up big time, and are desperately trying to get their stories straight and their ducks in a line. One of the Republican Congressmen involved today essentially said fine, no 702 (FISA) reauthorization until Congress gets their answers. They can go back to getting Wiretap Act warrants, which require probable cause that a crime has been committed, if they can't report to Congress on how FISA was abused for political purposes. As he said, this investigation isn't going away, no matter how bad I takes the FBI look.
Achilles,
Obama isn't hiding out overseas. He is being debriefed by Putin.
How can we forget about Hillary when she won't go away?
Dear Congress,
Please ask Obama folks why, in the waning days of his administration, Obama changed Executive Order 12333 to allow the NSA to share raw (unmasked) classified intercepts with a bunch of other intelligence agencies. Thanks.
The Public
Lewis Wetzel said...
My new Vladimir Putin wall calendar arrived to day. It's pretty neat, and only $3.95! Hang it up at work, make your colleagues whisper behind your back. Order it here through the Althouse Amazon portal.
4/12/17, 2:59 PM
Cool! I bought a T34 podstakannik before the Russian thing got rolling.
You can still buy one from Amazon https://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss?url=search-alias%3Daps&field-keywords=podstakannik+T34&rh=i%3Aaps%2Ck%3Apodstakannik+T34
but the price has gone way up.
Isn't capitalism wonderful, Comrade?
How do these penis enlargers get past Captcha?
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